Hi everyone.

Those of you that know me know my pets. Well, Jasper, our 10 year old obese border collie is having issues with his leg. It started before the weekend, and it's obviously bothering him.

I'll try to give a description of what's going on, and I want to let everyone know that he will be going to the vet tomorrow, so I'm not looking for a diagnosis, I'm looking for some ideas on how to help him until his appointment tomorrow.

It started with a limp. Not a big limp, but noticeable. So I checked the leg he was favoring and found a wound. It amounts to a scratch really. I disinfected it and I've been keeping an eye on it. It's fine. It's not infected, and it's healing. But he's been acting off. He's not greeting me when I come home (which he always does), he doesn't even wag his tail when he sees me. Usually he goes nuts when I come home. Barking, tail wagging, mommy I want some attention, I missed you so much, behavior. The last few days I've had to go looking for him, and even then, I don't even get a happy tail wag. Nothing. That's when I started to get concerned.

Hubby is on nights right now. So he's home during the day, I'm home from 3pm on. Well, I came home, checked on Jasper, and I have to say, I haven't really seen him do a lot of walking or standing when I've been home. He goes out to pee and poo, eat and drink, but even then, it's not like he normally is. He's eating fine, drinking fine, but he's melancholy. Not himself.

Well hubby called me when I got home from work, said he made an appointment with the vet because the thinks there's more to this then just a cut on Jasper's leg. He thinks Jasper's leg is dislocated, or his shoulder popped out. Well, after I got off the phone with hubby, Jasper got up to get a drink, and I watched him. When he's standing you can see his front leg pop out of place. That's the best way I can describe it. He'll be standing, all is fine, and all of a sudden his leg will pop away from his body, and you can definitely see that it's not natural. Something is going on with that leg.

He's not yelping, or whining. He is limping when he walks, but I don't think it's because he's in pain as much as the fact that the leg won't do what it's supposed to do. I think the limp is more because of what's going on with the leg then it is because of any pain he may be feeling.

He goes to the vet tomorrow, but until then, he's not happy, and I can't stand to see him this way.

Any suggestions? I thought of wrapping the leg in a tensor bandage. Around the shoulder, on the leg, just to help steady it. But I'm worried that I may cause more damage that way.

I've given him baby aspirin so that any pain he may be feeling should be lessened. We can't get an earlier appointment, and like I said, he doesn't really seem to be in pain. He's walking on it, it's just not right.

Any suggestions? Anything at all?

Yeah, I would stay away from the wrapping too, you don't want to impede the circulation to the foot.
Sorry he is having a tough time right now.
About the only suggestion I have is to help him out with a sling and let him stay off it when he doesn't need to be moving around.
How do you think he may have injured it?

. All I can say is keep him off the leg as much as possible. Put him on a leash when you take him out so that he can't try to run etc. (this is all advice you guys gave me for Owen).
Good luck at the vet tomorrow! I know how tough it is when our furbabies are ill or injured.

Thank you both.

Keeping him on a leash isn't an issue. He seems to know that he can't run and play right now, which is why I didn't notice the way the leg was when he was putting weight on it, until today. He's been resting, and not doing a lot of walking unless it's necessary.

I don't know how well a sling would work. I wish I could describe what's going on in a better way. I'd bet money that the leg or shoulder is dislocated. When I saw him standing to drink from his water bowl, it was scary to see the way his leg bent. It was like his leg gave way, and then went to a very unnatural angle. I've only seen something like that once, when my son dislocated his shoulder.

If I'm right, then that would explain why he's not feeling any pain. His leg is most likely numb because it's dislocated. But that's just a guess. The vet will know for sure.

I have no idea how he did it, but he's not young. He's 10 years old, and he's obese. Extremely obese. Not our doing. He gets diet food and plenty of exercise, but for some reason he's still fat, and getting fatter every day. We've had his thyroid tested, and he has all the symptoms of thyroid disease, including the flaky skin, but the test came back negative for thyroid disease, and no diet food or amount of exercise works.

I'm worried that his weight will hinder him even further. If this is a dislocated leg or shoulder, like I'm guessing, then they can pop it into place. But his weight will make healing so much worse, and that's not even factoring in his age.

We have a 3 year old beagle too, and they love to play together. I would bet that that's how he hurt it, or dislocated it. He tries to keep up with the youngun, and he's no longer as young and spry as he used to be.

I've never been this anxious to get to the vet. We told the vet the issue, and we still couldn't get an appointment until tomorrow. Simply can't afford to go to emergency and pay 4 times what we would pay at the vet. It will be hard enough to dish out the money for the regular vet, but it has to be done. He's our baby. We love him. He deserves all we can do for him, and if it means that I have to work double time for a few months, so be it.

Lady Sam, I gave him aspirin, but my husband (who loves animals, and loves our dogs, but has no idea about animal care) gave him tylenol a few days ago. I had no idea. I was at work and he just told me today that that's what he'd done. His thought was that tylenol could help with inflammation. Now I'm afraid. I told him that he should only give aspirin, but I'm wondering if even that's recommended.

I just need some tips until tomorrow. I want him to have a restful night, but then again, he really doesn't seem to be in pain. He's just not himself and his leg is messed up! It's freaky. I wish you could see it. You'd all say "WTF?" ;)

I just checked him. I can move his other legs, and when I do, I meet the resistance I expect. The leg that's bothering him, moves in an unnatural way. I can move it further than the others. It's as if it's not connected.

I'd still bet money that it's dislocated. I'm worried that this may cause permanent damage.

I'm just so worried about him. Sorry to be a nuisance. I am the pets expert, and I know that the vet is the only option. I also know that the best I can do for him is to let him rest until he goes to the vet. But I'm also the mom of a dog that I love, and when that part of me comes out, I just want advice, or someone to tell me it's going to be okay, even though I know that none of you can offer that, my hubby is at work, it's just me and the kids, and I feel very helpless right now.

I guess I just need a hug, and some encouragement that I'm doing all I can. In other words, I need a boost.

Alty pretend this thread was written by someone else.. you are doing everything you need to. You ARE a great pet owner. Jasper knows it too. Hugs

So I'm guessing he didn't act painful when you moved the leg, that at least is a good thing.
With shoulders or front legs at work I use a sling, but rather than putting it behind both front legs to help them walk, I go in front of one shoulder then behind the opposite leg. That way it doesn't slip and you have a little more stability and control. It may help him out, may not.
Aspirin is safe, the two adverse effects would be possible stomach upset and increased bleeding should he need surgery. Aspirin is a blood thinner so I would watch how much I gave him, just in case. Of course my fingers are crossed that won't be the case.
I agree with saving the emergency vet money if he is not noticeably in distress, better spent at your regular vet and getting him straightened out.
The emergency vet most likely will stabilize and have you follow up with your vet anyway.
And ANY diagnostics they do will be expensive.
So I get your thinking there.
And don't forget to tell them about the meds you have given so far.
What am I saying? I know you will do that.
Good Luck tomorrow I hope he is on his feet soon.

And here's a virtual hug.
Try not to worry too much during the night. I know that's hard, sorry.

Alty pretend this thread was written by someone else.. you are doing everything you need to. You ARE a great pet owner. Jasper knows it too. hugs

No fair making me cry. (hugs)

Thank you Mogrann. I have looked at this thread as I would if it weren't me, and my advice would be to go to the vet, which we're doing. But then, if the OP came back and said "we can't afford a vet", I'd say "then you shouldn't have a dog", and that makes me feel like a hypocrite. Frankly, vet care is expensive, and I don't know anyone that can actually afford it, but I know many people that are great pet owners. That's not fair!

We'll get this sorted out, and we'll pay what we have to, but this whole thing has me thinking that the whole vet thing is a bunch of bull. They've made it so that only the super rich can afford to have pets, and most of the people I know, that actually deserve to have pets, aren't super rich.

So, what do we have? You can love your pet, but if something major comes up and you don't have thousands of dollars to fix it, your only option is to euthanize, and that's not cheap either.

There are 5 million dogs being killed in shelters every year in the US alone, because there aren't enough homes. Why? Because most people can't afford vet care!

Jasper will get the care he needs, and if I have to sell my soul to make it happen, it will. But this whole thing, and other issues that have come up this week, all dog health related, has made me sick.

Something has to give. If it is a dislocated shoulder, then it should be fixed, and it shouldn't cost us thousands.

I'm on a different rant now. Starting a thread about it. Why? I just got a call from a friend. A dog we used to dogsit for may have cancer. She's Jasper's buddy. She was Indy's buddy too.

It's just too much. We just lost Indy, now Jasper is sick, and now a call that Fido may have cancer, and if she does, the treatment may cost her owners 10's of thousands of dollars, and she may still die in the end. It's just too much. I should step back. It's making me upset.

Those of us that love animals, love them as much as we love the people in our lives. They're not pets, they're family. Why should anyone have to sacrifice family simply because they can't afford the rich jerks that happen to have the degree and education to help them? I thought vets became vets because they love animals. Well prove it! Make it affordable to help your pet!

I really should get off my soapbox now. I'm just so upset about everything. All dog stuff this week. I can't lose another. I can't lose not even one more, even one I don't know. Something has to be done for all the dogs, not just Jasper, not just Fido, but the system has to change. Humanity has to count for something!

So I'm guessing he didn't act painful when you moved the leg, that at least is a good thing.
With shoulders or front legs at work I use a sling, but rather than putting it behind both front legs to help them walk, I go in front of one shoulder then behind the opposite leg. That way it doesn't slip and you have a little more stability and control. It may help him out, may not.
Aspirin is safe, the two adverse effects would be possible stomach upset and increased bleeding should he need surgery. Aspirin is a blood thinner so I would watch how much I gave him, just in case. Of course my fingers are crossed that won't be the case.
I agree with saving the emergency vet money if he is not noticeably in distress, better spent at your regular vet and getting him straightened out.
The emergency vet most likely will stabilize and have you follow up with your vet anyway.
And ANY diagnostics they do will be expensive.
So I get your thinking there.
And don't forget to tell them about the meds you have given so far.
What am I saying? I know you will do that.
Good Luck tomorrow I hope he is on his feet soon.

And heres a virtual hug.
Try not to worry to much during the night. I know that's hard, sorry.

Thank you Lady Sam.

I'm anxious about the vet tomorrow, but happy that he'll at least have some relief. I hope. I also hope it doesn't cost us our home and cars. ;)

I just want him to be himself again. The good news is that he really doesn't seem to be in pain at all. He just can't walk well on this leg.

I've going to give him a baby aspirin tonight, and hope that if there is pain, that will help ease it. My best bet now is that the vet will fix this, and won't prolong things doing unnecessary tests that will only rack up the bill. :(

Hi Alty... Sorry for your problems and I am in total agreement about vet prices.I was there when it all started and am aghast at where the profession has wound up. But a topic for another day and place.
Any unusual movement, especially if it is not associated with a joint, is suggestive of some form of bone loss disease, and consequent "fracture, or failure of the bone to provide support. Osteoporosis is one example. A better example is a fracture that did not heal properly, or at all. No knitting of bone, so the broken ends simply overgrow with a cartilage like material and bend and twist as a false-joint, without much evidence of pain, just a leg that bends in the wrong place.
If you were here in the SW USA, I would suggest Valley Fever, but...you're not.
An older puncture wound may have infected and created an osteomyelitis, or bone infection which can result in a bone failure at the site.
And then there is the old "favorite", a malignancy, which causes a severe thinning and weakening of bone in the area. These are usually painful and noticeable weeks or months before getting to this stage, due to the swollen area at the site. Most such malignancies occur close to, but seldom involve the joint.
This is not a complete list of what may be wrong, but it's enough to have upset you, for which I apologize. Let's hope it is just bizarre, and less serious 'problem', because good news is easier to accept than a surprise of bad news.

I echo everyone else's thoughts. Short of taking him to an Emergency vet clinic you have done all you can and there is probably nothing you can do to help Jasper feel any better until he sees the vet other than limit his activity, which he is already doing for himself. I hope it's nothing too serious. His obesity can hinder his progress though.

Actually, the weight gain and this leg issue might indicate something else internal, too, so keep that in the back of your mind for future reference if there doesn't appear to be a significant injury when the vet checks him over. I am concerned that it may be a radial nerve issue. Could he have been hit by a car or something similar?

Anyhow, I'm sure you are sleeping by now, but please let us know as soon as you can what the vet says. My thoughts are with you...

Hugs, Didi

Hi Alty...Sorry for your problems and I am in total agreement about vet prices.I was there when it all started and am aghast at where the profession has wound up. But a topic for another day and place.
Any unusual movement, especially if it is not associated with a joint, is suggestive of some form of bone loss disease, and consequent "fracture, or failure of the bone to provide support. Osteoporosis is one example. A better example is a fracture that did not heal properly, or at all. No knitting of bone, so the broken ends simply overgrow with a cartilage like material and bend and twist as a false-joint, without much evidence of pain, just a leg that bends in the wrong place.
If you were here in the SW USA, I would suggest Valley Fever, but...you're not.
An older puncture wound may have infected and created an osteomyelitis, or bone infection which can result in a bone failure at the site.
And then there is the old "favorite", a malignancy, which causes a severe thinning and weakening of bone in the area. These are usually painful and noticeable weeks or months before getting to this stage, due to the swollen area at the site. Most such malignancies occur close to, but seldom involve the joint.
This is not a complete list of what may be wrong, but it's enough to have upset you, for which I apologize. Let's hope it is just bizarre, and less serious 'problem', because good news is easier to accept than a surprise of bad news.

Thank you so much for your post Paleo.

We had the appointment booked for today, but they called us and cancelled. They had a few emergencies come in, and since Jasper doesn't seem to be in pain, they didn't consider him to priority, so he's been rescheduled for Thursday. :(

I called the emergency vet, because at this point I'm willing to pay the extra cost just to have him seen, but when I told them what was going on, they said to wait until Thursday unless he shows signs of severe distress. So it's Tuesday right now, and I have no options but to wait until Thursday.

Like I said before, he really doesn't seem to be in pain. He's not himself, but he's eating, drinking, and walking. He does rest a lot, and only gets up when he absolutely has to, and when he does, his leg just looks wrong. It will "give way" when he's standing. I really wish I could describe it better.

It's not swollen, he allows me to touch it and doesn't seem to care at all when I do. But when I move it around, it feels almost like it's not attached to his body.

I guess I'll have to wait until Thursday and hope for the best. Not knowing is killing me, but he seems to be worry free. :)

I echo everyone else's thoughts. Short of taking him to an Emergency vet clinic you have done all you can and there is probably nothing you can do to help Jasper feel any better until he sees the vet other than limit his activity, which he is already doing for himself. I hope it's nothing too serious. His obesity can hinder his progress though.

Actually, the weight gain and this leg issue might indicate something else internal, too, so keep that in the back of your mind for future reference if there doesn't appear to be a significant injury when the vet checks him over. I am concerned that it may be a radial nerve issue. Could he have been hit by a car or something similar?

Anyhow, I'm sure you are sleeping by now, but please let us know as soon as you can what the vet says. My thoughts are with you...

Hugs, Didi

Hi Didi.

He's never anywhere where he could be hit by a car. When we go for walks he's always on leash, unless we go to the off leash park, and that's a very large fenced in wooded area, no cars. Other then that he's in the house or in our fenced backyard.

He does however have a very exuberant 3 year old beagle to play with, and he loves to play, despite his age and his weight. It's entirely possible that he was chasing (never catching) Chewy in the yard, and slipped or tripped the wrong way.

I am very concerned that his weight will make this issue even worse, but this isn't a recent weight gain. He's been obese for many years (since he was around 2 years old). I'd still bet that it's a thyroid condition, and Paleo and I have discussed that, and I even suggested the testing that Paleo recommended to my vet, but since they did the blood work test for thyroid that came back negative, they're confident that this is not the issue. I'm not.

The thing is, he's obese, but we don't overfeed him, and he does get every day exercise (except for the last few days because he's really not up to it). He's on diet food, and he only gets the recommended serving every day. He also gets a lot of exercise playing with our beagle. Just on a side note, the beagle has the same diet and exercise routine, and he's a beagle (they're prone to obesity), and he's a very healthy weight. But with Jasper, despite everything we've done, he continues to gain, and to top it off, he has the dry flaky skin that is a indicator of a thyroid condition.

I'm beside myself right now. I feel so bad for him. I know he's not happy, but I'd bet that it's not because he's in pain. I think he's depressed because he can't do everything he usually does right now. Even Chewy seems to sense that Jasper isn't well. He usually eggs Jasper on to go outside and play. Chewy even brings both leashes when it's time for a walk. He hasn't been doing that. In fact, he refuses to go for his own walk because Jasper can't come. He's been spending a lot of time just laying next to Jasper, licking his leg.

If only they could talk. :(

Hi Alty,

Does he jump off the sofa or beds? Could he have possibly dislocated it? Just a thought.
Sending healing thoughts... hope it isn't anything serious.

Hi Alty,

Does he jump off of the sofa or beds? Could he have possibly dislocated it? Just a thought.
Sending healing thoughts.....hope it isn't anything serious.

Hi Doula.

No, he doesn't jump off sofas and beds, only because he's too fat to get on them to begin with. Poor fat pup. ;)

A dislocation is what I'm thinking this is, but not from jumping. I'd bet that he hurt it while playing with Chewy, when we weren't around to see it happen. :(

Thank you so much. I'm now waiting until Thursday and hoping for the best. He's not a young pup, he's 10 years old, and a larger breed dog. I'm worried, but I'm trying to be optimistic.

With all due respect for your vet. They put him off until Thursday?
I guess we just do things differently, I couldn't tell you how many times we have stayed late to see a client whether it was an emergency or not, however I have helped out at clinics where that was not the case.
Makes for a long day, but part of why I love where I am, the dedication of our staff.
I'm sorry you have to wait until then.
At any rate, still hoping he does well and it's nothing serious.

Jasper just got back from the vet. They took x-rays, did blood work, every test they could think of to find out what's going on. My guess was wrong, his shoulder/ arm is not dislocated. Actually, they have no idea what's going on, they only have guesses. They think that he may have strained his leg, and because he's an older dog, the strain caused his arthritis (which is news to me) to flair up even more. So they gave him a muscle relaxant and pain pills.

The bad news is that now he's not eating. In fact, he hasn't eaten in almost two days. We've tried everything, all his favorites, anything we could get into him. He won't even eat steak, or a weiner (his favs).

So they sent him home with pain meds (getting him to take one was really fun. In fact, I think that giving a cat meds would be easier), and now we're all hoping that the pains meds will make him comfortable enough that he'll get his appetite back.

He's much worse then he was when this all started, and the vet has absolutely no idea what's going on. She's basically going by trial and error. So we have to wait and see. But I don't know if Jasper has that kind of time.

Anyone have any ideas on how to get some food into him?

I have a very bad feeling that this may not end well. I'm sitting here crying right now. We just put Indy to sleep less then 5 months ago, now Jasper is deathly ill. I just want him to be okay, to not be in pain. Any suggestions would be welcome.

Are you up for making a slurry of canned dog food and syringe feeding him if he continues to not eat.
I am certainly not a vet, you know that, but if nothing showed up on x-ray, did they mention, perhaps a radial nerve injury?

Radial Nerve Paralysis in Dogs and Cats (http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2105&aid=3539)

I'm not trying to diagnose but it is a possibility worth mentioning.

Lady Sam, and advice anyone can offer at this point is very welcome, especially since the vet doesn't seem to know what's going on anymore then we do.

I'm going to the store in around 30 minutes to buy a turkey baster, and all the nummiest food I can find. At this point I don't care if he eats dog food, or cavier, as long as I get something into him. If I have to force it, I will.

They didn't mention a radial nerve injury, as far as I know. Sadly I couldn't be at the appointment, so everything I know about it, my husband told me.

He goes back in a few days, sooner if he doesn't start to eat. I'll definitely mention this to the vet. :)

I desperately want to sugar coat it because it's you but the not eating part is very worrying.
I called my mum earlier today and we were talking about you actually, I had no idea what was going on until mum mentioned she saw it on FB!

You could get some nutrigel to rub on his gums just to give him a bit of a sugar and vitamin boost, or even some glucose just to perk him up a bit. If his blood sugar drops then he'll feel worse and be even less inclined to eat... Been there done that.

I'm going to give an "out there" suggestion but what about a bite? Cy has been bitten by some unknown bug twice now and both times he stopped eating for several days and pawed at his ear for maybe 3-4 days. There was no swelling and we couldn't find a bite mark (he's a hairless dog so it wouldn't be too hidden!)
Is it possible Jasper has had a really bad reaction to a venom? If he was bitten on his leg it could be very painful and given his age he could be having a hard time getting it out of his system.

Like I said, out there suggestion but I'm racking my brain here.

I can't really offer anything else but virtual hugs x

Thank you Shazzy. You don't have to sugar coat anything. It's me, so I know all too well how serious this all is. It's scaring me to death.

Last night I force fed him a bowl of chicken noodle soup. It was the easiest thing to get into the turkey baster after I blended it. He kept it down for a round 20 minutes and then up it came.

He's on pain meds, and the vet was hoping that would help him get his appetite back, but so far no go. He turns his nose at everything we bring to him, and we have brought him everything. By the way, whoever said that giving a dog a pill was easy, didn't have a dog that didn't want to eat. It's not at all easy when he won't even eat bacon, or cheese. I had to literally shove it down his throat and then chase it with water in the turkey baster, and even then it took around 10 tries. Little bugger. It's not that big a pill, he's weak, but he still manages to spit it back out even when it's in the back of his throat and I've held his mouth closed for 5 minutes. Stubborn little bug. So there is some fight still left in him. Sadly he's using it against healing.

Right now I'm giving him around a tablespoon of chicken noodle soup, forcing it with the turkey baster, every hour. I think that yesterday the whole bowl at one time was just too much, especially since he hasn't eaten in days. So far so good. He's managed to keep that last two "doses" of soup down.

As for bites. We live in the burbs in Alberta. About the only thing that will bite you here is a mosquito. Itchy and annoying, but definitely not deadly. We don't have poisonous bugs, snakes, or anything. The biggest fear here is that your dog is sprayed by a skunk, and even that is a rarity.

The vet looked at his leg, did x-rays, and says she thinks he strained it, and that the pain is from his arthritis. I'm finding that a bit odd, because he's never been diagnosed with arthritis. Fat, yes. Arthritis, no. She also said that his heart rate is high for a dog as lethargic as he is. If he were Chewy (healthy and active) his heart rate would be normal. But considering the fact that he hasn't been even walking, or eating, his heart rate is high. Also, he's drinking water as if it's going out of style. If you leave a big bowl of water by him, he'll drink it empty within minutes, and when you fill it up again, he'll drink a second bowl, third bowl. It's gotten to the point where we have to take the water away (which I hate doing because he's not eating), because he's drinking it so fast that he ends up puking it all up. Right now he's getting a small bowl of water every hour, 30 minutes after the soup.

Right now Rod has to carry him to the yard for a pee, and has to hold him while he's peeing. I called the vet today and told her that the pain pills aren't doing anything, and asked if she had any other recommendations. Her exact words "I'm so sorry. All of his tests came back fine for a dog his age. The only thing that is looking at all off is his leg, and it's just swollen. It shouldn't be the cause for all that's going on with him. I had really hoped it was just pain causing him to stop eating, but these pain pills are good. If they're not working, then it's something else". In other words, she has no clue what's going on, no clue how to get him to eat, and she mentioned that this may just be out of anyone's control. No shyt? Really? Thanks for the news flash! I asked if there was another vet at the clinic that could take a look at him, someone more specialized. She told me that all the vets work together on a problem case, so all the vets in the clinic have already reviewed his x-rays and other tests, and all of them are baffled as to what's going on. I even asked if maybe his stomach was twisted. She said no, she checked that. Everything looks normal. His stomach is empty, but other then that, and the leg, there's nothing else that should be causing this. I asked about a blockage, because he's very gassy, and I thought that maybe he's drinking so much because he's trying to work something out of his system. She said no. There's nothing at all in his stomach or intestines. Nothing.

Right now Rod and I are on our own. The vet says there's nothing further she can do. She can put him on IV to keep him alive, but unless we figure out what's wrong, that's pouring gas into a leaky gas bucket, and he'd have to stay at the vet clinic. Rod and I both agree that we'd rather have him home with us.

Last night Rod and I agreed that we will do everything we can, give him the meds, force feed him, keep him comfortable, and if nothing changes, and the vet still can't help, then we may just have to do for Jasper what we did for Indy. But I'm not ready to give up yet. I just can't believe that a dog that was running around, barking, wagging his tail, eating my underwear, not even a week ago, is now so weak, so close to death.

They always say that God (or whoever is in charge) doesn't give you more then you can handle. Well, not to feel sorry for myself, but seriously, who the heck is in charge up there, and how much more do they think I can handle? I'm telling you right now, I'm at the very end of my rope. You would think that with all the death I've handled in my life, I'd be immune to it by now, I'd breeze through it like nothing. But in truth, every single death just takes more of my soul. I just don't have anything left anymore. Someone has a very sick idea of what I can handle, because I can't handle this. Not right now. In a few years yest, but not right now. It's too much! Isn't it enough that I lost my parents only 6 months apart? Now I may lose my dogs less than 6 months apart? It's too soon. I don't expect 16 years with Jasper. I get that we got really lucky with Indy, that he wasn't the norm for a larger breed dog. But Jasper is only 10! I've never lost a dog at this age before, and never had a dog that went from being fine to being like this within days. I don't expect 16 years, but can I at least get one or two more? Can I at least be prepared for this?

I just keep seeing him running around, playing, barking, wagging his tail, nudging me because he wants a belly rub. That was not even a week ago! Not even a week!

Sorry for the book. It helps to write this down. I'm beside myself right now. I don't know what to do. I need a miracle, because if I stop sugar coating things for myself, I have a feeling I won't have my Jasper past the weekend. If things keep going downhill as they are, as quickly as they are, we're going to lose him, and it won't be weeks, or months, but hours, or days. :(

Eating your underwear? Did he do that recently? Sorry to suggest this but what are the chances of a blockage given all the testing they did, was there any barium involved at any point?
I know that says nothing of the leg and I'm purely speculating but...
Eats things, vomiting, gassy, no appetite.

Alty,

Any fever in all of this at any point? Did they prescribe an anti-inflammatory for his leg? Something even OTC such as Glucosamine?

Any thought of trying a different vet practice to see if they might think of additional tests to try? I know cost will be a factor.

It may be two different things going on at once... just coincidental. Arthritis and a strain in his leg, which would make him not want to be on it, and something intestinal for the lack of appetite... such as the possibility of a blockage.

What about something such as Lyme disease? Which could account for both the leg swelling and the loss of appetite.

All the water drinking makes me think "diabetes." Do dogs get that (cats do), and has he been checked for it?

All the water drinking makes me think "diabetes." Do dogs get that (cats do), and has he been checked for it?

Yes, dogs can be checked for it as well. Might be a possible kidney concern as well.

Dogs can and do get diabetes, Which should have been ruled out with the bloodwork they did, since those are the key things to check. I know you should never assume, but I'm assuming they ruled out diabetes and kidney issues.
I'm with Doula, a double whammy and perhaps a second opinion.

We had a similar problem with our dog Mick about 2 1/2 years ago. It was over Rae's 16th birthday in November and we thought we might have to put her down. Vet came back with nothing, nada, zilch. Well, miracles never cease. By New Years Eve she was fine. No more pain, no more swelling and she started eating again.

Still don't know what it was, but it had to be geared toward arthritis as she gets a little stiff when the weather changes. So hopefully there's still hope for Jasper too.

Eating your underwear? Did he do that recently? Sorry to suggest this but what are the chances of a blockage given all the testing they did, was there any barium involved at any point?
I know that says nothing of the leg and I'm purely speculating but......
Eats things, vomiting, gassy, no appetite.

Sadly that's not it, and trust me, I considered it, because Jasper will eat anything that's not tied down, and even some things that are.

But no, it's not a blockage. They checked. I sent a list with Rod when he took Jasper to the vet. A list of all the things he'd done before this started, and a list of all the things I was worried about. They checked him head to toe, xrayed the stomach, leg, and shoulder, palpitated his stomach to see if it was twisted. They did all the tests and really found nothing.

I thought blockage because of the gas and the fact that he's drinking so much water. It's almost like he's trying to get something out, and he thinks the water will help.

But they said no. It's not that, even though it makes the most sense considering the symptoms now.

Alty,

Any fever in all of this at any point? Did they prescribe an anti-inflammatory for his leg? Something even OTC such as Glucosamine?

Any thought of trying a different vet practice to see if they might think of additional tests to try? I know cost will be a factor.

It may be two different things going on at once...just coincidental. Arthritis and a strain in his leg, which would make him not want to be on it, and something intestinal for the lack of appetite....such as the possibility of a blockage.

What about something such as Lyme disease? Which could account for both the leg swelling and the loss of appetite.

No fever at all. But, the only reaction they got out of him at all was when they checked his temp. He was not happy about that, and he actually protested it. When Rod told me that, I instantly thought that maybe he protested it so much because something's going on with his bowels. But the vet says they checked, and nothing.

I've been calling other vet clinics all day. Right now it's nearly impossible to get any of them to accept him. We could do the emergency vet, but when I called and told them the tests our vet did, they told me point blank that I'd be wasting my time and money, because they'd do the same tests, and if my vet found nothing, it's unlikely they will.

But, lyme disease. That's something I never considered, and I know the vet didn't. It makes sense. It makes a lot of sense. I'm going to go call them right now. Maybe I can get him in tonight, tomorrow morning at the latest. That's a very real possibility.

Thank you Doula.

What's the pain med he is on? Is he taking anything else? I'd ask about something for his arthritis as well. If the swelling and arthritis are causing pain, they need to be addressed. Could the thirst be a side effect of his pain meds?

We had a similar problem with our dog Mick about 2 1/2 years ago. It was over Rae's 16th birthday in November and we thought we might have to put her down. Vet came back with nothing, nada, zilch. Well, miracles never cease. By New Years Eve she was fine. No more pain, no more swelling and she started eating again.

Still don't know what it was, but it had to be geared toward arthritis as she gets a little stiff when the weather changes. So hopefully there's still hope for Jasper too.

I'm crying J.

I'm hoping this is just something that he'll get over. I have to say that I'm extremely worried, getting ready for the worst, because he's gone downhill so quickly, but I'm not giving up hope. Not at all.

Thank you J.

I just wanted to throw some hope in there for you. Mick doesn't run around the back yard like she used to, she's 12 now. But at least she is walking and eating again.

What's the pain med he is on? Is he taking anything else? I'd ask about something for his arthritis as well. If the swelling and arthritis are causing pain, they need to be addressed. Could the thirst be a side effect of his pain meds?

He was drinking excessively before the pain meds.

He's on Tramadol 50mg tablets, 1 1/2 pills every 8 hours.

He got a shot of muscle relaxants at the vet clinic. Neither one has helped so far, but to be fair it's only been a day. Still, he's not eating, and the vet hoped the pain meds would help him get his appetite back, because her theory was that he's not eating because of the pain.

News report the other day said ticks are a real problem this spring, so check your own body and your animals' bodies after being outdoors, especially in the woods or brush. I just looked up Lyme disease. Lameness in one leg and thirst are two major symptoms. Has Jasper been out in the woods or running through long grasses or brush during the past two weeks?

I just wanted to throw some hope in there for you. Mick doesn't run around the back yard like she used to, she's 12 now. But at least she is walking and eating again.

I'll take any hope I can get, because I have to be honest, the way things are going right now, I expect to find him dead any minute. Every time I walk up to him and he's still breathing, I'm relieved. He's gone downhill so fast. If I at least knew what was wrong, I'd be able to deal with it better, but not knowing, not being able to help him, it's torture. But not near the torture he's going through right now.

I don't care if he never runs after Chewy again, or eats another pair of my underwear, I just want him to live, and be pain free and happy. But living is the main thing on the agenda right now. We'll work on the other two after we have that settled.

News report the other day said ticks are a real problem this spring, so check your own body and your animals' bodies after being outdoors, especially in the woods or brush. I just looked up Lyme disease. Lameness in one leg and thirst are two major symptoms. Has Jasper been out in the woods or running through long grasses or brush during the past two weeks?

That's the only thing bothering me about lyme disease WG.

We live in the burbs. We haven't been to wooded areas in months, because it's been too cold. For the last few months Jasper has been for walks around the neighborhood, walking on cemented sidewalks, and he's been in our yard, which has one tree in it, and it's in the corner.

Lyme disease fits on so many levels. I just don't know how he would have gotten a tick. It's not that common where we live. But I'm telling the vet.
I'm on hold right now with the vet.

Hoping. This could be the fix.

Is it sad that I hope my dog has lyme disease? At least that can be fixed! It would be something to go on. Something to cure, instead of guessing.

With Lyme disease it can be months before any symptoms show up. I think it is not sad at all to hope it might be that. It certainly would help to have a diagnosis that you could work with.

It doesn't matter where you live. Ticks aren't choosy which suburb to hang out in. We're in the 'burbs too and have ticks and have to check ourselves after being outside. Have you gone over his coat/skin inch by inch looking for a tick or a bite mark?

Lyme disease (in dogs) sites say no pain meds are necessary and give certain antibiotics after specific blood tests.

Nope, ticks aren't choosy. I live in the burbs and work in the city, I found a tick on me the other night at work... in a HOSPITAL of all places!

Well I got off the phone with the vet clinic. I couldn't talk to one of the vets, but the receptionist is in vet school. I told her what we're dealing with, mentioned lyme disease. She said it's possible, and I should bring him in. They had an emergency spot for tonight. Here's the problem. Rod is at work, and I have no way to reach him. The receptionist at their office leaves at 4pm, it's now almost 7pm, and there's no phone in the shop.

I can't get Jasper to the clinic on my own, because he can't walk, and I can't lift him and get him into the car, even if the kids helped.

I have an appointment for tomorrow. I'm hoping it's not too late.

So my question is this, for anyone that has any suggestions, because other then knowing that lyme disease is caused by ticks, and knowing that antibiotics can cure it, I know nothing else about this disease. So what can I do tonight? Should I continue to force feed him, or is that making things worse? Should I continue with the meds? Is there something at home, or that I can buy, that will help until tomorrow?

Damnit. Now I'm even more frustrated. I can't get him in, and in the meantime, he's laying there getting worse. I even called my neighbor to see if they could help me get him to the clinic. They're not home. In fact, it seems no one that I know that lives nearby is home.

Rod, please call to check up on things. Please call!

Right now, go all over him and his skin and look for a tick or a bite wound.

Does Rod work with anyone who may have a cell phone with internet access? Thinking Facebook. If yes see if you can post on that persons wall and their phone may let them know you posted.

Come on Rod!! *crossing fingers*

Does Rod work with anyone who may have a cell phone with internet access? Thinking facebook. If yes see if you can post on that persons wall and their phone may let them know you posted.

The night shift is two people. Rod and some other guy I hate, I only know his first name. Rod doesn't have a cell, and if the other guy does, I don't know it. I'm not a fan of his. His last dog, he got it from a byb at 5 weeks, and told me that I was nuts to think that wasn't okay. In other words, we don't like each other much. :(

Do you have any taxi services that allow dogs?

Do you have any taxi services that allow dogs?

:( No. And even if I did, I doubt they'd help me lift him into the cab.

I have a car. That's not the problem. I just can't get him into the car by myself. Right now he can't walk at all. He can't even stand without help, and when you get him standing, you have to hold him or he falls down.

I'm hoping Rod calls to check up on things. He normally does. But he has around 45 minutes. After that the vet clinic is closed. I could drive to his work, but it's a 30 minute drive there, and then back, and that would be too late too.

As is, if he calls right now, we'd have 15 minutes to get Jasper to the clinic, after Rod got here, carried Jasper to the car, and we drove to the vet (which is around 10 minutes away). :(

We have the appointment tomorrow. The receptionist/vet student, said she wasn't too concerned about waiting until then. But then, she isn't here with Jasper right now. She doesn't see how he is, even though you can trust that I described his situation in great detail.

Damnit! Why isn't anyone home on a Friday night!

I can only tell you what we do for one of our dogs, Alice, our English Bulldog. She has arthritis and does well with Glucosamine/Chondroitin. You could call your vet back and ask about it, but you'd only get one dose in before tomorrow. Might be something to ask about when you see the vet in the morning.

I remember someone here saying that their sheriff dept helped them get their dog into the car once, is that an option?

Wish I was closer I so would be there with Henry.. come on Rod you call

Or a folded sheet sort of like a hammock? Would the kids be able to help carry him if they each grabbed a corner? Of course I don't know how heavy he is or how big they are. But it's a pretty easy way to lift, but you have to remember to grab the sheet up close to his body. You of course would have to take the brunt of the weight, get his front end in first, then climb into the car with him and pull him in the rest of the way using the sheet.
May not be possible, just a thought.
And if your guys are little you may not want to chance it.

If it turns out that it just won't be possible to get him there tonight, you might feel better, and he might as well, if you or the kids can sleep by him. You might find it reassuring to throw down a sleeping bag or blankets and be able to pet him now and then during the night.

If it turns out that it just won't be possible to get him there tonight, you might feel better, and he might as well, if you or the kids can sleep by him. You might find it reassuring to throw down a sleeping bag or blankets and be able to pet him now and then during the night.

True , true I spent many nights on the floor with my Sam, and I think we both slept better.

Have you gone over all his body to look for a tick or a wound? He could have one embedded in his skin, one that's still there, your evidence for Lyme disease. Meanwhile, give him water and the chicken soup.

Or a folded sheet sort of like a hammock? would the kids be able to help carry him if they each grabbed a corner? Of course I don't know how heavy he is or how big they are. But it's a pretty easy way to lift, but you have to remember to grab the sheet up close to his body. You of course would have to take the brunt of the weight, get his front end in first, then climb into the car with him and pull him in the rest of the way using the sheet.
May not be possible, just a thought.
And if your guys are little you may not want to chance it.

It's really not an option.

Rod just called, I told him what's going on. I called the vet on my cell phone while I had Rod on the phone, and they're closed. It's too late. :(

But we have the appointment tomorrow. He's getting a tablespoon of chicken noodle soup every hour, and water every hour. Should I be limiting his water? I have been because he's been drinking so fast, and so much, that he vomits. I limited the water so he could keep the soup down.

Right now I'm resigned to the fact that I'm doing all I can do. Whatever is meant to be, is meant to be. We'll go tomorrow, do all we can, demand some answers, get him on antibiotics, because really, even if it isn't lyme disease, at this point antibiotics won't hurt him.

If it doesn't work, then I'll have to find a way to accept it, and accept that we did what we could.

That's really all we have left right now. I'm still hoping for the best, but I'm preparing for the worst. Been there, done that, too many times to count.

Right now I'm resigned to the fact that I'm doing all I can do.
No, you aren't, if you haven't looked for an embedded tick or a bite wound. Think German, here.

I've looked for a tick. But I have to be honest. I don't really know what I'm looking for, and he's very furry. Very very furry.

There's a wound on his leg, the one that he's been limping on, which is what we actually thought was originally the problem. He's been licking at it, worrying it, licked all the fur off. It isn't infected, just bald, and a bit raw. Could that be it?

But I don't see a tick there. Or, if there is one, I don't know how to recognize it. I'm not versed on ticks. Never had to deal with one before. Not ever.

Has anyone suggested IVDD??

We just had a tick fall off one of our dogs. They don't stay on forever, they fall off once they are engorged enough.

Try looking here for some references. https://www.google.com/search?q=tick+on+dog&hl=en&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=TRiST_HCNeL66QGb7Oy6BA&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CCwQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=601&sei=UhiST6nhO4K29QTTq5WhBA

Do you see what he is licking on his leg? A cut or something? Run your fingers very slowly and carefully through every bit of his fur. If there's an embedded tick, at least part of it (its butt) will be sticking out and you will feel it as a small hard thing. Or use a comb and slowly go through his coat. If it hits resistance, check to see what was the cause of that.

It's worth looking, feeling for one. Don't just say, if there was one, it fell off already. Plus, it will give you something constructive to do.

Has anyone suggested IVDD???

I don't think so, she said they did do x-rays. Only affected limb is 1 front leg.

Alty, I hope tomorrow goes better for you than today has. As far as limiting his water.
If he is drinking so much at a time that he throws it back up then you are doing him a favor by limiting him somewhat, but maybe you could give him a little more at a time as long as he is keeping it down. You don't him to get dehydrated if you can help it. Do you have any Karo syrup on hand or any thing similar. A little rubbed on his gums and tongue may help to keep his glucose up. Or if you have GatorAde or pedialyte that may also be helpful.
I can imagine how helpless you must feel right now, I've been there a couple of times.
Hugs and prayers

The fact is, his coat is very thick. Very thick. Finding a tick without shaving him, would be impossible. He's a border collie cross. The breed has long thick fur.

I'll look, and feel, but finding a tick with his coat, I'm not holding my breath. But still, I'll look. I have to do something.

He just threw up again. But two of the feedings I forced into him, stayed down. Even though he looks at me like I'm torturing him when I do it. But I have no choice. I feel like he hates me right now. I'm forcing him to stay alive, and he doesn't understand. :(

Has anyone suggested IVDD???

No, and I actually have no idea what that is.

I'll Google it. :)

I don't think so, she said they did do x-rays. Only affected limb is 1 front leg.

Alty, I hope tomorrow goes better for you than today has. As far as limiting his water.
If he is drinking so much at a time that he throws it back up then you are doing him a favor by limiting him somewhat, but maybe you could give him a little more at a time as long as he is keeping it down. You don't him to get dehydrated if you can help it. Do you have any Karo syrup on hand or any thing similar. A little rubbed on his gums and tongue may help to keep his glucose up. Or if you have GatorAde or pedialyte that may also be helpful.
I can imagine how helpless you must feel right now, I've been there a couple of times.
Hugs and prayers

Thank you.

I've got gatorade, and pedialyte. Tried giving it to him yesterday, and he puked it right back up. But I'll try again.

I have no idea what karo syrup is, or where to even get it. If you can give me an idea what it is, I'll try it. I don't really want to spend a lot of time googling it. I'm only online right now because you all are the only thing that's keeping me from crying my eyes out.

Right now he's not keeping anything down. He kept down two of the tablespoons of soup I gave him before (which I'm doing every hour), but threw up the last one, and just threw up again when I let him have a bowl of water.

Right now my goal is to keep him alive so we can get him to the vet tomorrow, check for lyme disease, and even if they find nothing there, I'm going to insist on antibiotics because really, at this point it won't hurt, and it could just be the thing that saves him, even if we don't get a diagnosis.

I'm preparing myself for the worst, while hoping for the best. But I have to prepare myself for the possibility that we may not be able to fix this. If I think about it too much, I fall apart, so I'm trying to just be realistic, and go about this the way I would if it were someone asking about their dog on AMHD. I can tell you that it's not working out too well for me, but damnit, it's all I have.

Whoever said that God doesn't give you anything you can't handle, is dead wrong, because I think that God (if he exists) is giving me a lot more credit then I deserve, because frankly, this is the last straw. I can't handle any more. Not now. At least give me some time between punches! :(

Yes, I'm feeling very sorry for myself right now, and I realize that there are millions of people that have lived through much worse than I have, but I'm not them. I'm me. And me, well, I can't take much more. I'm done. If all of this shyt was put on my shoulders to break me, then fine, they win, because this may be the breaking point.

Worst of all, I'm sitting here feeling sorry for myself, and my pain, when Jasper is the one fighting for his life. Jasper is the one that needs the help.

Damnit. I love my animals, but I have to say, this is too hard. It's just too hard!

Pancake syrup will do if you got it. Just rub it on the gums he doesn't have to actually eat it. The sugar is absorbed into the mucosal membrane.
Hang in there, I'm usually up late on the weekends and up and down all night so I'll be right there with you.
And you are allowed to feel a little sorry for yourself, but just not for very long, OK?

Pancake syrup will do if you got it. Just rub it on the gums he doesn't have to actually eat it. The sugar is absorbed into the mucosal membrane.
Hang in there, I'm usually up late on the weekends and up and down all night so I'll be right there with ya.
And you are allowed to feel a little sorry for yourself, but just not for very long, ok?

Not fair. You made me smile. :)

I have pancake syrup. I'll go rub it into his gums right now.

Sadly I have to work tomorrow. I usually don't work on weekends, but I agreed to work this Saturday, and frankly, it couldn't have come at a worse time. My mind is on everything but work, and if I called and told my boss that I can't come in because of Jasper, she'd yell at me. That's the kind of person she is. She doesn't even care about her own kids, much less me, or my family.

I couldn't care less about my job right now. I have to get up in 8 hours to work. OMG! That can't be right! Doing the math. Crap! Yup, I did the math right. That sucks! But right now I think I have to go. The vet bills aren't cheap, and we need every extra penny we can get. :(

I'll be going from work to the vet, meeting Rod there.

Yeah, work suck sometimes, but it pays the bills, sometimes.
You'd better get some rest and good luck tomorrow.
You can do math, too? A woman of many talents.
Lame attempt at another smile.

Yeah, work suck sometimes, but it pays the bills, sometimes.
You'd better get some rest and good luck tomorrow.
You can do math, too? A woman of many talents.
Lame attempt at another smile.

The lame attempt worked. At work I'm known as the math whiz, which goes to show what level of idiocy I work with. Math is my worst subject, but, because I can figure out what 45 nickels are in dollars, without using a calculator, I'm considered the whiz. Sad.

But then, I work in retail, at a dollar store no less, so it's not like I'm working with a group of scholars. Not that there's anything wrong with retail. But... well... it is what it is. :(

I just want to let everyone know that we lost Jasper today. When we got to the vet the vet said that there really wasn't anything more that could be done. She gave us the option to keep testing, but said that she knew without a doubt that there was no hope. She said that the best we could do for him was to let him go, let him rest. So we made the decision to end things for him, to end his suffering.

I really did not expect to be euthanizing Jasper today.

I really have no words. I'm numb. I don't really believe it, even though I know it's true.

I want to thank you all for your support through all of this. I appreciate it more than I can ever say.

R.I.P. Jasper. We love you so much. You're at peace now, playing with Indy in heaven, and I promise you we will meet again. I hope you know that what we did, we did out of love. I will never forget you. Ever.

Awww Alty...

I am so very sorry to read this. Your love and compassion for him comforted him when he was hurting and eased his way to peace.

Hugs for you and your family... I hope you all find peace in knowing that you gave him great love and joy in his life.

I am truly sorry for your loss, I so wish things had turned out differently for Jasper and your family. I'm sorry I just don't have the words.

Thank you both. I'm still in shock. In fact, I don't truly believe it. We just got back from Rod's cousin's house, he's the one cremating Jasper for us, he also cremated Indy for us, only 5 months ago.

We got home, I opened the door, Chewy came running, looking for Jasper, and for one moment I thought, "where is he? Why isn't he coming to greet us". For just that moment I felt it may have all been a bad dream. Sadly it's reality. It's just taking some time to sink in.

My nose is raw, my eyes are all red, I have a headache from crying, and I think my heart has finally broken in two. It's been broken and mended a few times now, but I think this is the final blow.

All I can say is that everyone else better stay healthy, because I really can't handle this again, not for a very very very very very very long time. I feel like I've been burying dogs forever. I really didn't expect to be in doing this again so soon after Indy.

I really don't know if I can survive this. He's my Jasper, and I want him back!

I would think my tears would be all gone by now. Guess not.

Oh sh*t... I missed this, I'm so sorry Alty... Big big big big big hugs to you, R, S & J. You did everything you could Alty. Nothing wrong with having a good cry, just horrible luck.

Oh sh*t.... I missed this, I'm so sorry Alty..... Big big big big big hugs to you, R, S & J. You did everything you could Alty. Nothing wrong with having a good cry, just horrible luck.

Thank you Shazzy. We did do everything we could. Sometimes I guess you just have to accept that there are some things you can't fix, no matter how much you want to, or how much money you're willing to spend, or how much love you have.

I would have sold my house, everything I own, if the vet had said there was a chance to save him (even though that would have been unwise considering the other people, not just the kids, Rod and me, but the fur people, that we're responsible for), but I would have done it if I could have saved him. Rod would have too. But there simply wasn't a chance.

I knew it was over when the vet said that if Jasper were her dog, she'd end things, because there was no hope.

At least we had the power to end his pain. That does give me some peace. Also, all of my friends, all of you included, have helped me more than I'll ever be able to say in writing.