Sorry if I go on too long, I just want to make sure all the information I need is in this post.

In the beginning of January, a friend of mine gave me 6 fish. They are Zebra Cichlids. I had a ten gallon aquarium. One of them had babies at the end of January, so I got another ten gallon aquarium because I can't afford anything bigger at the moment, and stuck the other five fish and a pleco in it and left daddy fish and the babies and a pleco in the first tank. Daddy fish was chasing mommy fish, thought he was going to kill her so I moved her. There are at least 30 babies left. About a week and a half ago, the water got extremely cloudy, so I did a 50% water change, then three days later I did another 50% water change, but have not done one in the past week. The water has gotten worse, you can't see past two inches in it.

I think it's green, so it might be extreme algae growth?? Does this sound right?? Or could it be because there are so many fish in the tank?? The tank is near a window, but there is a curtain on it, and I have no where else to put the tank. Would one of the plastic window things with the ocean scene work to keep out the sun or should I get cardboard or something like that and tape it to the tank?? Is there something else it could be? I know it's not because of the items in the tank. I have the same things in both tanks (except the filters are different) and the second tank is clear. First tank filter is a Whisper 10-30i, not sure about second tank, filter was given to me. What do I need to do to clear it up? I am getting frustrated because I don't know what to do. I am using some spring water and some tap water in the tanks.

Also, I got these test strips from Jungle to test the Nitrate, nitrite, PH, Hardness, and alkalinity.

Tank 1: nitrate:20 nitrite:0 PH:6.8 alkalinity:0 Hardness:??

Tank 2: nitrate:40 nitrite:0 PH:6.8 alkalinity:0 Hardness:??

I'm not sure about the hardness because the color came out gray, and the color choices are green, brown, and orangish, but if I had to pick one, it was closest to the green which would be 25. I bought Tetra easy balance to put in and it didn't change anything. I tested before I put it in and 24 hours after I put it in. I also have TetraAqua AquaSafe. Are any of these numbers wrong, and what do I need to do to change them? Is there anything else I should be checking for and need to know?


Thanks for any responses. I am getting anxious because I am afraid that they are going to start dying off if I don't get it fixed.


CrazyDaisyLou

Don't worry, algae isn't going to harm your fish.
Your cloudy green water is an algae bloom (free floating algae). They feed on the nitrates. A little algae destroyer will take care of it. Follow the directions precisely. It may take a few days to clear up, so don't be alarmed if it does not immediately take effect - give it time to work.
If the tank must stay by the window, regular use of the algae destroyer along with 10% weekly water changes to keep nitrates low (their food source), will keep it under control - just make sure you don't over treat, overdose your tank, or do large water changes.
The decorative backing will help to block out some of the sunlight, but it alone will not prevent algae blooms (however it will help with the amount produced)

Your tank is not showing signs of pollution, your readings are good. That indicates that the bio-filtration your tank has built up is handling the amount of fish inside the tank. What ever you do, don't over clean your tank out of desperation to clear it up. Even though you have an algae bloom right now, the fast growing baby fish may set off a bacterial bloom. This will also cloud the water whitish or grayish. Don't be alarmed, this is just the beneficial bacteria within your tank compensating for the extra load of waste in the water and it will clear up on it's own.
Also, smaller filters sometimes do not come with bio-wheels or bio-sponges that are home to the beneficial bacteria within the tank. Does yours happen to have these? If not, I suggest for you to purchase the sponges (they are black and you will need to cut it to fit the filter). This way you will never disturb the beneficial bacteria colonies that keep the tank healthy. If you need more info on this, I don't mind explaining
So you have very, very soft tap water correct? In your case, it is better to use treated tap water instead of adding spring water. Spring water is good to use when one has hard tap water and is keeping fish that require softer water.
African Cichlids are very hardy fish and can live happily in the readings that your aquarium tests are reading.
In nature they live in very hard water. Pet stores sell African Cichlid salts and water treatments to create a natural hard water environment for the fish. Boy does it really bring out their magnificent colors too. If you decide to go this route, the change should be done slowly and always kept up with. If there were ever to be an abrupt change in the dissolved minerals in the water, your fish could die.
I accidentally had this happen to me when I was newly into fish keeping while making a rather large no,no of a water change and forgot to add the salt back into the water - 17 died all in a matter of 5 minutes. So, if you decide to go that route, you will see the colors of your fish become brighter, but it must be kept up with.
African Cichlids also need more space, especially when they are older. They will be too big for a 10 gal and they will also kill one another. They are the most aggressive tropical aquarium fish you can buy. It would benefit you and your fish to save a little so that you may one day put them in a bigger tank.
Also, Daddy would have killed Mommy had you not moved her. She is only of use to him when spawning. Daddy Cichlids (most of them anyway) tend to, care for, guard, and protect their offspring with their lives. However, watch out because as the babies get bigger and older, he too will kill them/eat them as they will also kill each other fighting for territory.
I'm afraid to also say that not all your babies will survive in the 10 gallon... You sound like you really care for your fish and are doing every thing you can, but unfortunately it's just not enough space.
I have 2 older Zebra males (a blue and a yellow) in a 55 gallon aquarium and that's still not enough space for them as they spat every now and then over territory. However, they must live there with each other because they just don't get along with any of the other Africans in any other tanks. They are killing machines. You come across these extra, extra aggressive Africans from time to time and they will take out a entire community if not separated - just something to watch for...
If you need anything else or have more questions, I'm always here to help.
Kae

Thank you for getting back so quick. I know that my top tank has a bio-sponge, since you described what it is, but my bottom tank does not, so I will go to see if I can find one for it.

Actually, I do have another question. How old do the babies need to be before they leave the tank? My brother wants a couple (YEAH!! ), and I thought they would be okay to go now, but he thinks they need to wait longer. I was also thinking that when they get bigger I would see if a local pet shop would want some. Do you think that would be a good idea? Or would it be better to keep them all?

Thanks you.

CrazyDaisyLou

Yes, your babies can go to a new home now. Just remember, these fish are very aggressive and only do well if kept with other African Cichlids (they will kill other more peaceful fish). They may leave your pleco alone, but my own personal experience with adding algae eaters to a Cichlids tank proved fatal.

Pet shops in my area will only except a Cichlids for resale if it's about an inch long, anything under is not excepted or is fed as bait. You may want to check with the shop itself to find out what their policies are.
Keeping them all could cause you to lose a lot of them unless you get bigger tanks.
Sometime people who work at the pet shops give them homes or know of people who will.

I failed to mention above that there are several species of African Cichlids that have been unscientifically labeled "zebras" in pet shops/fish stores.
Some are mouthbrooders, which means the female will hold her eggs in her mouth until they hatch. Then occasionally she will scoop up her young inside her mouth when they are very small to protect them. At this time, she would be the one running off the male and defending the babies herself. The males are the ones with the egg spots on their anal fins - that is only if these are the ones you have.
What do they look like?
Kae

The following link has a picture of what mine look like. I have two bigger ones that looks like the second picture of the white/pink fish, and three bigger ones of the first picture of the striped ones. I can see a couple of the babies are already striped and a couple are white/pink.

colorful tropical fish pictures,Convict Cichlid , Cichlasoma nigrofasciatum (http://tropicalfishgallery.com/species-gallery/cichlids/convict.html)

Boy, I'm so glad I asked!! These fish are South American Convict Cichlids NOT Africans. Scratch everything I said about using African Cichlids salts and water treatments... YOUR WATER IS PERFECT FOR THESE FISH - THEY LOVE SOFT WATER...
Unfortunately it seems like every fish that bares strips gets called a Zebra for a common name... The white/pink ones are Albino Convict Cichlids. The Convicts can be pretty mean toward one another as you've already noticed with the male, but they are not as aggressive as the Africians... And Convicts don't get as large either...
I'm so sorry for not making the connection or asking eairler...
Your doing good though!!
And your babies are still able to leave the tank when ever you'd like...
The Oscar in the picture over to the side is also a South American Cichlid.
Keep up the good work!!
Kae

Thanks so much. I understand it's easy to mix them up when you don't see them, just get a description. Is that Oscar yours, or is it a picture you found?


CrazyDaisyLou

The avatar is a cute pic I found...
Big Mouth, my Oscar, doesn't behave well for nice head shots (LOL).
Here she is though, swimming in the corner of the tank. Her reflection makes her back end look split, but it's the only pic I have of her stored on the computer.
2655

She's so cute!! Is she done growing? How big will she get? I saw a couple small oscars recently that I liked the color of, but, obviously, I won't be getting any anytime soon.


I think my fish had more babies. Or else she pooped. I looked in the second tank and in the cave there are a bunch of small brown balls on the bottom and up the side. When I saw the first bunch they were starting to swim, so they didn't look like that.


CrazyDaisyLou

I think what you probably see is poop LOL
No, she's not done growing yet. These fish get massive in size (a little smaller in captivity though) They get around 12 -15 inches long, 6 - 8 inches tall, 3 - 4 inches wide and can reach 5 pounds. They can live to be 30 years old too... Kind of cool.
When I was 17 years old (30 now) I was in a pet shop and saw these 2 huge massive fish that really caught my eye. I asked the owner about them and they were 25 year old Oscars. Their owner had past away and his children took the fish to the pet shop because they didn't know what to do with them... It blew my mind that those fish had been on this earth longer than me... I always loved them after that.
How are your babies doing?

My babies are doing good. A lot of them have their stripes already. I put algae killer in last night and already you can see through it better. WOOHOO!! I thought maybe she had babies again because every time another fish comes near the cave, she chases them away, and she is the one who usually runs, not chases. Do you think if I take the cave out I would have less of a chace of having more babies? Would it make a difference?

Wow, that is big. When your Oscar is fully grown, what is the smallest size tank that she will be able to fit in? I've heard one inch of fish per gallon, so does that mean a 20 gallon tank would be big enough, or would it have to be bigger still? Would smaller fish be okay with her or will she eat them for breakfast?

I know, I ask a lot of questions!! :P

Daisy

That's great news about your tank and your babies. Do you have fry food (baby fish food) to feed them or Cichlid flakes that you can crumble for them to eat? It will really boost their growth. They should be eating several times a day as well.
The one inch one gallon rule is true, but fish on the massive side like Oscars need extra consideration. When measuring big fish, you have to measure all their inches (height, length, and width)
The smallest size tank for an adult Oscar is 55 gallons. This is because they need the height and length that the larger tanks offer. You can keep 2 Oscars in a 55 gallon, but you cannot keep one Oscar in a 25 gallon because the length and height of the tank in not sufficient.
I have Big Mouth alone in a 55 gallon, but not by choice...
Oscars form breeding pairs. This means they pick their mate for life. They form a strong bond with each other and they will stay together for the rest of their lives.
Last year Big Mouths companion died during a tank catastrophe. My family was on vacation and our power had gone off. When the power came back on the filters on their tank failed to start back up. Oscars are extremely dirty fish and need triple the filtration per gallon of water. The water became too polluted and he died as a result. She almost did too, she was still alive when I got home, but it took her a week to recover.
Every effort to introduce another Oscar has failed so far. She's very lonely and sad, but will not except another fish.
I usually don't keep Oscars this long. I raise breeding pairs then sell or trade them. I've raised 2 breeding pairs before her. She's an exception. I'm hoping that she's young enough to hopefully accept another fish one day. I have gotten rather attached to her though.

Oscars will eat anything that will fit inside their mouth. Like other Cichlids, they are also caring parents, but will snack on their babies from time to time once they get bigger.
I had a young Oscar once that swallowed a Red Devil Cichlid. Since that happened, I've never put any other fish with them.

Convicts love having the security of caves. They like having the territory to claim and hide in, it makes them happier fish... They make a home out of them, so it's good to leave the caves.

I don't mind the questions... I love talking about fish:D
Kae

I'm sorry to hear about your Oscar dying last year. :( Good luck with finding another mate she will accept. :D How do you tell the female Oscars from the males? Can you tell in some way with most fish, or are most just making a good guess? I know how to do it with the Convicts that I have, because they had babies. Someone told me one time that Oscars never stop growing and eventually there wouldn't be a tank big enough for them so you would have to get rid of them (kill it). I thought that was kind of odd. Why would you sell or buy a fish like that? I said to myself. That would be a very hard thing to do, especially for people who get very attached to their pets. You said about them needing triple the filtration. How do you do that? Lets put it this way, I am imagining three 55 gallon filtration systems hanging from the tank.

I am crumbling the flakes for my babies, but if you think that getting fry food would be better, I will go get some. And I have only been feeding them once a day, but I will up it now to at least twice.

I sure am glad you love talking about fish!! ;)

Daisy

Female and male Oscars look just alike. You can't tell the sex of an Oscar by looking at it until it's about the size of Big Mouth. You can tell by the size of their breeding tubes that slightly protrude when they are bigger. The females is slightly larger around than the males. In fact, last year (actually, it was the summer of 2005 now that I think about it, so it's been a little longer than a year) when the male fish died, I had no idea if it was the male or female. All I knew was that they had paired up and I had a male and female.
You buy 5 young Oscars (chances are you'll have male and female this way) and keep them together in a large tank so you can watch their behavior. You watch a lot of chasing, lip locking, and fighting (male and female). Some of it is genuine fighting between 2 males and some of it is testing between male and female (whether or not they are worthy of one another). Then one day you notice 2 of them sticking up for one another, swimming together, and chasing the others away.
Then you sell or trade the others...
The only exception to this is if you happen to get all females. When there is no males in the picture, female Oscars will buddy up like best friends and will appear to be a pair. Getting 5 "usually" insures that you have both sexes.
The first time I ever bought Oscars, I only bought 2 (I wasn't doing the breeding pair thing). They always got along, so I thought I just got lucky with getting a male and female... Well, as they got older, their breeding tubes (which I knew nothing about at the time) looked just the same. They also never tried to mate, fight over territory like 2 males or anything. Come to find out, they were 2 females.

They really do get to big for a 55 gallon. It's doable, but I feel it's just mot enough room. I'd compare it to me being locked in a bathroom all day every day... just not enough room...
My two females went to live with a guy that worked at the fish shop that had a 250 gallon set up because I felt bad for them.
In the wild they get much larger and wild caught ones will out grow every common household tank. It's sad that some chain stores, to save a few bucks, will catch these fish from the wild when there are many, many breeders out there to buy from instead. The ones breed in captivity have been breed to be smaller - the size I mentioned above.
Unfortunately, there are fish that have not been breed smaller for sell on the market like the Red Belly Pacu and Black Belly Pacu's. This is very saddening to me. In the state that I live in, the waters are searched on a regular basis to find and remove these large fish that people have dumped out because they destroy the ecosystem (poor things, it's not their fault).
No one selling these fish are going to tell you the whole truth...
Here's a pic of their size and their teeth,
2678

2679
Sad Right? It's no wonder people kill them and dump them in lakes and rivers. Imagine your cute little fish turning into that... They just shouldn't be sold...

Triple filtration: You could use three 55 gallon hang on back or just use filters for larger tanks. I use two 80 gallon filters. I could only use one of them right now because it's just her, but I leave it on because it helps me out with less maintenance. I do all of my tanks that way (LOL)... The less work the better:D.

The crumbled flakes are the same thing as fry food. Fry food is only necessary to buy if you feed pellets which is to hard for them to eat. I have seen young cichlid pellets too, but they are to big for babies the size of yours. But you have flakes, so it's all good;)!!

Your little babies were probably snacking on the algae that is now dying off (don't worry, it's better to remove the unsightliness than to leave it) It just means you need to keep them full. Instead of feeding 2 large meals a day, where most of the food may get wasted, feed at least 3 times and more if you can. At the same time put a few whole flakes in there for the adult fish too because you don't want it to get hungry and look at the babies for a snack.

I love talking about fish and hearing about other peoples fish, I just love the hobby:D How do you like it so far?

Kae (sorry, I know I may ramble a bit)

That is sad that someone would do that. :( It's horrible. To me that is like taking one of my cats because he or she got bigger than the normal size, killing it and throwing it in the trash. There are at least three of them bigger than normal. I could never do it. I would chop off my right hand first. (By the way, I have 14 cats, not exactly by choice though.) They are not really bothering with the fish. I am surprised by that. I thought I'd be chasing them off the tank 24/7, but it's only once in a while.

I love learning new things. The only reason I don't go back to school (I'm 25) is because, besides money, I get bored easily, and if I have to learn about one subject for years, I think I'll go mad. I am really enjoying learning about the fish. And taking care of them. It's so easy (except when I freak out because I don't know what happening) when you know what you are doing. I've never had an easier pet to take care of.

I will have to keep in mind what you said about the Oscars, just in case I ever get any. (Although, with these fish and cats of mine, it doesn't seem likely anytime soon.) From what you said, I think I would enjoy them a lot.

I have heard that plecos like to eat vegetables (especially cucumbers). Is that true? I have been giving the one in the bottom tank one algae wafer every day, but nothing to the ones in the top because of the algae problem. I bought a cucumber to cut up for them, but never got around to giving it to them because I wasn't sure how much to give. They are still only about three to four inches long.


Daisy (you can ramble all you want!! :p )

14 cats, oh my goodness:D Maybe you can give me pointers on them LOL! I have 4, and let me tell you, they destroyed my furniture, so the 2 culprits had to go outside. We installed a kitty door in the garage door, now their destroying my garage... I had them neutered, but those little buggers are still peeing everywhere... They have a scratching pad, but the cushion to my husbands weight bench is much better obviously. Every window screen that they could reach has been clawed to shreads... They're driving me nuts... LOL, oh, and heavens forbid you leave your car window cracked, they jump in and make a big mess... This really bad behavior came about so suddenly and I don't know what to do about it.

I have no idea about the cucumbers. I know that goldfish and some Cichlids like them, but I'm not sure about the plecos... Can't hurt to try. Let me know how it goes...
I know the algae wafers are good for them because it has vitamins in it that they need.
I had plecos once upon a time and I fed them the wafers. They never really did a great job at cleaning up the algae though LOL...
They're suppose to get huge too, but I had one for 6 years and he only got to be around 6 to 7 inches long and never grew any bigger. I have seen some big ones in pictures though.
I have a few tanks that look a little empty. I was thinking about adding to them today. I guess I'll be taking a trip to the fish store... I'll let you know what I get...
Any ideas about what's going on with my cats? They were strays that I took in. 1 is a little over 6 months old and I just had him neutered 2 weeks ago, the other is about 8 months old and he was neutered 6 weeks ago.
The cutie pie that behaves the worst is in the avatar pic with "his mommy". We found him when he was way to young to be without a mother, he took up with our dog... LOL
Kae

I don't know what to tell you about the scratching, most of my cats do that too, and they too have a scratching post. I have taken to carrying around a water pistol or water bottle and squirting them whenever they do something wrong, but then you take the chance that they will get scared of you or hate you for life. As for the peeing, if the scent of a cat or any animal from any previous owners/renters are in your car/house, you will have problems for life. They will spend their lives trying to get rid of the scent of the previous owners animals by peeing and spraying. I, too, have this problem with my cats. :p They have very sensitive noses and will always be able to smell that scent that they feel shouldn't be there. I have tried different things, but nothing seems to work. I used this stuff called nature's miracle, or something like that, and my brother loves it, says it's the best thing ever made, but whenever I use it, they just go back and pee where I sprayed it. It feels like a never ending cycle. :rolleyes: Cats who are originally outside will automatically be wild, and that makes a difference too. Or if you ever have inside cats and let them outside for a few months for some odd reason or another and then brought them back in, they will also be wild. Wild cats have a natural tendency to scratch anything they can get their claws into. Also, males have a natural instinct to mark their territory. Good luck getting them to stop, and if you find out the secret, please let me know. I would really appreciate it. :D That is a very cute picture.

I will definitely try giving the plecos a cucumber sometime. I heard they get up to two feet AFTER I bought THREE of them!! I told my brother that when he gets his tank set up he won't have to buy a pleco! All he has to do is come over to my house and tell me which one he likes the most. :D And even if they don't clean up the algae very well, they're still cute. I love the designs on them.


Daisy

Oh, yeah, those little brown balls in the second tank, are DEFINITELY babies. They were moving around today, and I could see tails on a couple of them. Someone said that I should open up "Daisy's House of Fertility: If you want to get pregnant, spend five minutes at Daisy's." :D

WOW! That's awesome about the babies!
I wanted to pick up some fish yesterday, but the fish at the shop I went to looked sick... so I'll have to wait...
With the way your fish are breeding, your brother won't ever have to buy any LOL!
Kae

That is true, very, very true. I don't think either of us will ever have to buy fish again. I never thought that within a month I would have babies twice. It leaves me speechless. :D

Sorry you couldn't get more fish. I was excited to hear what you would have gotten. Still am interested, when you get them.

If one panel of a tank is broken, is it possible to replace that panel with another one and then reseal it? Or wouldn't it work? I found a 20 gallon tank with one side panel cracked, and I'd hoped it was possible. I thought maybe with spring coming up, I might be able to buy another cheap broken one at a yard sale, or find a place that sells panels of glass or plastic. And I did have to reseal one of the tanks I am using now, so I know how to do that.

Thanks

Daisy

Sure, resealing an aquarium panel is very possible. You can get Lowe's to cut a piece of glass for you.
The only problem you might have with replacing a panel is where the two silicone joints meet. Dry silicone does not bond well to new silicone and could possibly spring a leek.
I'll definitely let you know what I get. I plan on doing more fish shopping around today... I'm really hoping to find a few healthy Leporinus...
Kae

I will check out about getting a new panel at Lowe's sometime. I figured I would have to reseal the whole thing, because that is what I had to do with the other tank. We are supposed to be getting a storm with more than a quarter inch of ice today through tomorrow, so going today isn't a possibility.

Happy fish hunting. :p

Daisy

Wow, you resealed a tank! I've known many people who have, but that is one tough job I haven't attempted... Did you find it difficult? Some people say it's easy and others say it's hard.

I did get out to buy some fish today. I got 4 African Cichlid babies. They came from an assorted tank and they are still a bit to small to identify them correctly... I love the anticipation though. I'm hoping some of these will be females, I already have a lot of males...
How are your tanks and babies?
Kae

I think that it's not to bad to reseal a tank. The hardest part is taking off the old seal. If you don't have the right tool, it takes forever. Or so it seems. I had a good tool, made for doing other things, but was good for doing that, and it took me three hours. (I will attribute some of that time to it being my first time.:D ) It only took about a half an hour to put the silicone on and spread it. (I will attribute some of that time to it being my first time also.:D )

Good Luck with the fish being females. When you know what type they are, you will have to tell me.

My tank is crystal clear again. WOOHOO!! I put in the second treatment on Saturday, and by Sunday morning it was clear. My babies are doing great. All the older ones have their stripes, except I think the three that are white. They are so cute, like little kids. I like the white ones better, for what reason, I don't know.

The pup in your picture is really cute. :D

Daisy

Here are pictures of a few of my kitties. The first picture is Katie. The second is Maxwell. The third is Peanut, and the fourth is Snickers

Here are my fishies too. Two are of daddy to the first set. He has the darker lines. Two are of Mommy, and the last is the first set of babies.

Oh my goodness!! They are all sooo cute!! I just love seeing pictures of pets and fish (which I consider pets too):D
You should post some pictures in Our Members Pets (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/member-discussions/pictures-our-members-pets-55026.html).
Absolutely beautiful Daisy!
Kae

I will have to do that sometime. I don't have pictures (or good pictures) of some of my pets. :p

Hey, I have another question. In this picture, you will notice there is pink, not exactly on the cheek, but a little farther back, on the daddy. Is that normal for this type of fish to have that? I haven't seen another fish like them that have that pink. There are some at my workplace, but none of them have it. :confused: :confused: :confused: It is not a reflection from anything.

Daisy

I believe the pink colors your daddy (and mommy) are showing is displaying "breeding time". I noticed the same thing in the picture of your female above (all the pink or orange on her sides). They will develop intense colors during breeding...
I've never kept Convicts, but I've seen intense color changes in some of my fish around breeding time. The colors mostly appear on the gills, sides, and belly... Daddy's saying He's Not Done Yet!! LOL:D


Kae

Uh Oh!! :D ROFL He better be done soon. I have no more room in my tanks for more babies.

:D LOL!!

Maybe if he had to change diapers, he'd feel differently?? :D

One of my new babies has started getting brave enough to start coming out of hiding and I was able to snap a pic of it. It's the little pale one. I still can't tell with certainty what it is yet.
I haven't seen the other ones yet this morning. I'm hoping they are OK... All the fish in this tank are very young, so they should be fine...
2744

LOL That's true. If he had to change diapers... I think that's all he's be doing 24/7 for like two months. :D I looked in the tank at the second set of babies. There are definitely about three or four time more than the first time. There's only about thirty with the first set.

Your baby is really cute. :D It looks orange in the front. The blue one is really pretty, too. I hope the rest are all OK and come out soon, too.

Daisy

I thought you might like looking at this if you can get it. This is another website (I don't know if you've heard of it) called AquariaCentral. It reminds me a lot of this website. Some of the things you have to be a member to see. This person bought a custom made 150 gallon tank (:eek: Oh, think of the cost!! ) and is showing how the process is going. This page has the most recent pictures, and he is not finished yet.

Aquaria Central (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95068&page=5)

Daisy:D

That is a really awesome site! Thanks for sharing it with me. I can't wait to read everything in there. Did you join?

That baby does have a darker head than body. It looks older and it's a little bigger than the other ones too. I have one other kind-of like it except it does not have a dark head and has no stripes. Then 2 more that are kind of brown and a whiteish colored one. I saw them all very briefly today. Their hiding, poor things... probably scared out of their wits without their parents...

Thanks again for sharing the site!!
Kae

You are welcome. I did join, under the same name that I have for this site. That is the name that I usually use when signing up for something.

I'm so glad that they all came out and seem to be doing OK. Hopefully they will be coming out more soon. And at least you know that the older ones aren't eating them.

Daisy

Daisy,
I was smiling ear to ear at all your pet pictures!!
You are so right!! Daddy better be done because that's a lot of babies!

How are they all doing?

Mine are still in hiding (except for the bigger one)
I saw one burrowing itself under the sand - strange right?
Do yours ever go under the gravel or anything like that?
I've seen this behavior with my Guppies fry because their parents like to gobble them up, but not with Cichlids because their parents are very protective... The other Cichlids in the tank with them are very young themselves and pay them no attention, so I'm very curious as to how yours are acting.
I'm wondering if this is some kind of affect happening by them being taken away from their parents at such a young age... Or, possibly they could have been born (lol) hatched in the pet shop...

Kae

They are all doing great. I'm glad you like the pictures. I feel I have a few too many pets, though. :D

Mine do go under the gravel sometimes, but more at night. When I turn the light on you can see them all come out from underneath. Someone told me that they like to sleep under the gravel when they are babies, and also get any extra food that floated down. Your's look to be about the size of mine, so maybe they are doing one of those two things. Or maybe it feels more protected that way?

Daisy

I have a lot of pets too LOL just the way I am...

I'm relieved to know that my cichlid babies are not the only ones that burrow under.

I'm really hoping I get some females out of this.

Good luck, and I hope you get exactly what you want out of them.

Daisy:D

I wanted babies, but after seeing the billion you have... I'm starting to wonder:D hehe... I'll have to free up some tanks... Oh, which reminds me, I may have a home for Big Mouth. There's a lady with a huge south american cichlid community tank that I'd love for her to go to since she hasn't yet excepted another friend in her domain... All she does is swim up and down in the corner of her tank. It's sad and I feel bad for her. She may be happy in the community tank. We're going to try it out next week and see how she does.

:D If I would have known about their chances of reproducing before I got them, I would have wondered, too. LOL:D

That's great that you have a potential home for her. I hope it works out. She actually reminds me of one of the fish one of my friends has in a tank at work. She's a kissing Gourami (is that how you spell it?) and her mate died last year. She sits in the corner looking out at everyone, and ignores all the other fish in the tank with her. Hopefully it works out better for Big Mouth. Which also reminds me, the kitty I have as my avatar, I should have named HER Big Mouth. She has the most annoying yell. :eek: And she loves to yell, directly in your ear, for attention when she wants it.;) But, alas, I named her Peanut.:D


Daisy

She sits in the corner looking out at everyone
That's exactly what big mouth does, it is sooo sad. She sits in the corner watching everything that's going on outside of the tank. Then, when she sees someone walking up to the tank or past it, she starts the swimming up and down thing... like she's trying to get some kind of attention...

That's so funny about your cat. I bet she has a great personality too.
Do all your cats get along?
I've seen 2 strays in my garage eating the food I leave out for my cats for when they are outside.
They take off like a bullet though when they see someone.
I heard a huge cat fight the other day between the 2 of them. All my cats happened to be inside at the time (thank goodness) but they really got into it good. I've been afraid to let mine outside because I don't want them to get beat up.

Hehe... we have a catfish post going on here...

:D I was just at my brothers house. He decided to get a 29 gallon tank, and I was helping him set it up. He called me and told me he already bought the fish, and that he didn't have anything set up yet. I guess he was just excited. I told him it was important to let the water cycle 24 hours before putting any fish in, and he told me that he would just let the fish in the bags. I though, "Holy crap," (excuse my French) "how does he expect them to get fresh air?!?!?!?!" I don't know much about fish, but even I know that they need more water over night than you get in the small bag at the fish store. We had fish when I was little, and my parents like to remind me of how I cooked them when I was 4 years old. I thought he would have remembered a little from then because he was ten at the time, but I guess not. My parents also like to tell me that they don't remember anything about caring for the fish, which is a major reason why I'm glad I found you and this web page. So anyway, I told him not to leave the fish in the bag past midnight (he called me around 8). He said he'll just have to take the chance that they might die, which is true. Boy, did he jump the gun.

I do feel bad for the kisser. She's in a tank of convicts. She's sitting there doing her little kissy thingy with her lips and the others think she's attacking.

Most of my cats get along pretty well, but there are a few that just don't seem to be able to do it. Peanut does have a great personality, you are right. I love her though. I like to call her my little Peanut. Actually, I love all cats that have her type of coloring. I think it's so neat. They are called Calimanco Tortoiseshell's. They are so alike in coloring, and yet so different. I think that is the only coloring I will ever get on a cat for the rest of my life.

It's a good thing that your cats were in when that cat fight was going on. I think, because they have some domesticity in them, they probably wouldn't have gotten in the fight with the other cats, but then again, you never know. None of my cats who were originally outdoors cats have ever gotten into a fight. But I have had a couple of indoor cats who never were outdoors before get into a fight with each other.

Daisy:D

Catfish... thats hilarious!! :D

When a fish has ich, does it have to say on whatever med you buy that it cures it, or can it be any fugus med? I had bought a fish at a store one time, and a few weeks later I found it had ich on it, so I bought some ich meds for it. I thought it might be easier just to keep a general fungus killer made for the fish around, so if it happens again, I'll have it, if that will work. That fish died a couple weeks later. One of the other fish tried to eat him.


Daisy

If your brother would have conditioned the tap water with a water conditioner, then he could have put the fish directly in the tank... It would have been a lot better than the bag.
One thing you can do to help out your brothers aquarium is to give him one of your dirty filter cartridges (not your bio-sponge - don't want to risk destroying your tanks bio filtration). There will be some good bacteria that have developed on the dirty cartridge that will help start the bio filtration process in his tank.

I think those cats must be males. I can't tell because I barely get a glimpse of them before their gone. They have been here everyday eating (I can't let them go hungry:) ) but my garage smells like cat spray again:(...
I can't blame my cats this time because they've been inside and I actually think that the neutering has worked with them not spraying anymore. Maybe it just took some time before their hormone levels dropped?? I'm just glad they stopped.

That lady is going to take big mouth this evening and introduce her to her tank. If all goes well, she'll have a new home. If not, she'll be coming back.

Ick is a parasite, and fungus... well it's a fungus LOL. They are different. I keep both a fungus and parasite remedy on hand for when and if I need them. It's always a good idea... I also keep MelaFix on hand for injuries like nipped fins.

I did give my brother two cups of the water from one of my tanks. I will take over one of the filters then, also. I also took the test strips over and tested his water today, and they were all good readings, according to the paper that came with it, except the hardness. The slip wasn't even out of the tank for 5 seconds and it said it was up to the 300 mark. He put rock salt in the filter, he thought that would help. He said he has well water. Today I also took over the water conditioner I have and stuck some of that in his tank.

I don't know about the hormones. I have noticed that the younger the cat is when it gets fixed, the less chance that it will start spraying, or continue spraying, afterwards. Is there anyway you can close your garage off so the strays can't get in? If you really want to feed them, you could always stick the dish outside somewhere that won't get wet when it rains, and is easy access for you. The strays wouldn't be able to go in and spray, and I'm sure they know somewhere where they could go to sleep that's just as dry.

Thank you, I will keep that in mind, to get the meds so I have them on hand. I wasn't sure what the difference was. When I had the ich, I thought it looked like a fungus, because it says on the box or canister that ich looks like crystals, and I thought it looked cottony, like the fungus is described. The ich stuff got rid of it though. Would it hurt to put both of the meds in, or would that be an overload for the fish?:confused:


Daisy

You might be right about the meds. I've never tried using a parasite med for a fungus or vise versa. That's interesting.
I've never put both in at the same time either...
There are some meds that treat both... little more expensive though.

I'd rather not even try putting both meds in then, if they get sick again. I don't want to end up killing them if it doesn't work.

Last night I tried calling all the fish stores within an hour of where I live to ask if anyone would want the babies, and NOBODY wanted them. Only two of them actually checked to see if they would have room for them. I guess I'm going to have to see if I can find somewhere on line that I could advertise and say local shipping or pick up only. I know some people are willing to ship cross country, but I think of the stress the it puts them under.

My brothers fish are all doing well. He was saying the other day (jokingly) he wants to cross-breed all of them. He told my sister-in-law that he was going to buy fifteen tanks to put in the basement and put two different breeds of fish in each tank. My sister-in-law was like, "No no no no no. Not gonna happen." He doesn't have that many fish either.

Speaking of cross-breeds, yesterday I noticed, when my female convict went under the light, that she has a shiny yellow tail fin and the spikes on the top of her head alternate between black and yellow. You can't really see it that well in the picture I put up, but it's really neat looking.


Daisy

I'm sorry to hear that no one had room for the babies...
Maybe the pet shops would let you place a flyer in the fish dept (like at pets mart) that said "free baby cichlids"...

Big Mouth seems to be doing well. She's swimming among the other fish. She won't have a mate, but she will have company.
I really miss her.

I'm glad your brothers fish are doing good:)

Some fish change colors depending on their mood... I bet it's awesome to watch...

Good luck on finding homes for the babies...

Kae

How are the little fishies you got? I'm glad that Big Mouth is happier in her new home. Maybe one day you'll be able to get her back...

Someone told me that if I can't find somewhere to take the babies soon, I should flush them down the toilet, but that seems so mean to me. But if there's no other way, I guess I will have to. I will try doing what you said first, putting up a sign, but they are getting big, fast. The other day, one of the first set jumped in the breeding cage. I came down in the morning to find one big baby in the cage and ten dead small babies. I left them out of the cage, so they could go under the rocks. I don't know if they are really safer there, but the bigger ones can't get through the rocks anymore.

One of my brother's fish died the other day. It was called a Giraffe Cichlid. I looked up info on it after it died because he couldn't remember what it was called, and he wanted the info before that. It said that you have to watch the nitrate levels in the tank because they are sensitive to that. We tested the water and the nitrate levels were fine but the nitrite was at the caution mark. Do you think that was what possibly killed it? I put some of the stuff to level it out in it right after he added the fish and more of it after the one fish died, but I haven't been back yet to test again since it happened. Also, he called the store where he got them when it died, because he thought it might have been the hardness of his water. When I tested the first time it went straight to the 300 mark, didn't even wait five seconds for the strip to change. The second test went to the 300 mark too, but it took a lot longer. The lady at the pet store said that it was OK to be that hard, since they are all cichlids, because they like hard water. Is it really OK to be that hard? That doesn't seem quite right to me. Or doesn't it really matter? He has a mix of Africans and South Americans. Mine are doing fine in the soft water, and his seem to be doing fine (except that one) with the hard water. If he gets another one of the giraffe cichlids, should he test the water once a week, or more/less often?

He FINALLY added a bubble stone. I've been on him the last week to add one. He kept saying he didn't understand what the bubble stone does for them, so he wasn't going to get one. When the fish died, I went out, paid fifteen bucks for the stone and air pump, and made him put it in. You should have seen the fish in the tank. They seemed over-joyed to finally have fresh air. They were all swimming in the stream of bubbles, going up and down and back and forth. Looked like they were having a blast. And my brother says, "Well, it must be good for them if they are swimming in it like that." That's what I've been trying to tell him the past week. Duh!! Oh well, can't tell everyone everything.

Speaking of fish... :D... and my brother, he said one day one of the convicts got really pissed off by something or another and it turned totally black. He says, "I've never seen anything like it before. It was cool!" Mine haven't done that yet, but the big one does have black fins and the rest have white fins. And his big one has yellow on it's tail fin, too, but not on it's little spikes.


Daisy:p

My little fishies are doing really good. And Big Mouth is reportedly doing very well and liking her new home.

I can't see flushing a live fish down the toilet. They don't die right away and it would be a torturous death.

I have found that it is very easy to give fish away for free.
My city has a Yahoo Group called FreeCycle. Everything is free. I noticed that there were lots of these groups in many different places of the US.
Once I needed to find a home for several pond fish and my responses were overwhelming. If you don't have anything like this, many news papers classified ads are free when you are giving away pets.

Using Oil Of Cloves (5 drops per gallon of water), which you can buy at health food stores, is the humane method used among fish keepers when they have a suffering fish and have exhausted all other treatment options.
This method is used to sedate fish and other aquatic animals when a medical procedure needs to be done, if not put back into fresh water, they will go into a forever sleep. They have to be left in the solution overnight.

Your brothers tank is going through the cycling process where the nitrogen cycle is developing all the necessary beneficial bacteria it needs to break down the waste and be clean and healthy. Once this is complete, there will be a 0 nitrite reading. This process is often very hard on fish because it's like living in toxic water.
He shouldn't get any more fish until his tank has completed the nitrogen cycle and has made a decision on what compatible species of fish he likes. Just because they are a Cichlid does not mean they are compatible to live together.

Good job for buying your brothers tank an air pump and a diffuser. I'm sure the fish really appreciate it:)

Thank you, thank you. I know his fish are appreciating the fresh air. It was great to see them looking so happy. It's a little to late to tell him not to just get any fish though, he did that right after he bought the tank. I didn't even know he had the tank when he called me to tell me he bought some fish. He bought one if it said cichlid and he liked the way it looked. But I will tell him not to add anymore. The info I found on a couple of them said that you should only put them in a tank with one male and a couple of females of the same breed and that is it. I noticed when I was over at his house that the convicts only mess with each other unless one of the others make them angry.

I'm glad all of your fish and Big Mouth are doing good. :D


I know that there is the freecycle group in my area (I feel like I get a million emails everday), but I thought that you weren't allowed to post pets. I will double check in my group to make sure. If I can, I may be able to help someone else get rid of a few fish too. That would be great. I can't see killing a fish at all. Not any kind of animal.

Sorry it took so long to get back. I haven't been home much. Just to feed the animals and them I'm gone.

Daisy

The info I found on a couple of them said that you should only put them in a tank with one male and a couple of females of the same breed and that is it
That is exactly why I have 2 mean killing machines living in a 55 all by themselves...

You know, all my babies are out and about now. I think I got a batch of peacock hybrids :( Not exactly what I was hoping for... I'm still not sure yet... But they don't look like anything I've ever seen, so they must be muts... I'm sure they'll be pretty as they get older (peacock hybrids are sort of like the swan of fish - lol)

Did you ever find out if your freecycle site allows pets?

Kae

I haven't had a chance yet to find out about freecycle. My dad went into the hospital last week and I have been driving my mom back and forth. It is an hour drive, and I have to work during the day, so I haven't been home from about 5:30 am until about 9:30 pm for the past week or so. Today is the day, though, that I will look, because she is staying there the weekend and I don't have to pick her up until tomorrow. I went into my email this morning and I had almost 350 emails from freecycle. LOL I forgot to check off to send one email with all the offers, so if I don't check every day, that is the result. :D

My brother says all of the others are still doing well, but they are still small. Only about an inch long, the convicts a little bigger because the others ate the small ones I gave him, so I got them for him from someone else.

I've heard of peacock fish, but I've never seen one. Can't even imagine what they look like because I think of the peacock's tail and I don't believe for a minute that a fish would have a peacock's tail on it. It would look really odd. ;)

:confused: When you put a live plant in a tank, do you have to do anything special, like add dirt or specific chemicals or anything? I asked someone else, and the person said no, just make sure there are rocks covering the roots, but there is a live plant in a tank at work. It was only put in about a month ago, but it already looks like it is dying. Some of the leaves and stems are turning black/brown. Maybe that's normal? I would eventually like to add a live plant to my tank, when/if I get a bigger one, but I would like to find out information first. I have heard people talk about CO tanks in other posts, and I wasn't sure exactly what they do. :confused:


Daisy:D

Have you ever seen oxygen tanks hooked up to a little thing that goes to peoples nose and they carry it around with them?

Well, that's what the CO2 ( Carbon dioxide) tanks look like except that they have a device that goes from the tank to the aquarium water (instead of the nose with oxygen tanks).
It can deliver CO2 bubbles for the plants to breath just like our air pumps deliver oxygen bubbles for our fish to breath.

Kind of cool...

If you want plants, a fizz tab fertilizer would do the trick.
It delivers nutrient and CO2 to prevent the plants from turning yellow, brown, and black...

Here are some pics of African peacocks. These pics match mine the closest; however it's not a perfect match. I think I have hybrids.
2958

2959

2960

2961

Kae

That first yellow one is pretty neat looking. You'll have to post pics when they get older, unless you decide to get rid of them and get others. Do you think you can tell what they are mixed with?

I just found that you CAN post pets on my local freecycle group. YEAH!! Thank you for the idea. Also, thank you for explaining the CO2 tank. If I get some plants I will make sure I get something to put in the water to give them the CO2 to breath.

Thanks so much.

Daisy

I think my little babies are prodigies of different coloration types of peacocks breeding together.

I'm not sure of their specific names, but like a Yellow Sunshine peacock breeding with a Red Tiger Peacock (totally made up those names:D , but you know what I'm talking about)... So the coloration and name that goes with them doesn't match the what the fish looks like...
I guess that's what I get for buying out of the "assorted" tank... LOL...
Yeah, they're "assorted" all right... :D

I'm going to keep them though... I'll start taking some pictures so I can post them. They're getting big quick!!

That's great news about your free cycle!! Yea!!
You'll have about a million emails now - lol

Kae

I received one offer to take some already, but she wanted community fish. Had to disappoint her. I don't mind a lot of emails as long as a few of the people actually turn up to take some.:eek:

I'm glad you are going to keep the fish. It will be interesting to see what they look like. And believe it or not (I looked it up), there is a red peacock, and the yellow peacock's nick name is sunshine peackock.:cool:

Speaking of pig-headed people (not that we actually were). :D I went to my brother's house last night and was looking at the fish. My sister-in-law pointed out that two of the convicts they got were spending a lot of time together. I looked at them. The one is a female. The other is a male. I told him the one is a female, and he doesn't believe me. He said that she got the color on her side the same time she got the yellow on her fins, and he says it's yellow and keeps calling the fish "he." He won't listen to me. It's not yellow on the side, but that orangish-pinkish color. My sister-in-law believes me though. He will learn, oh yes he will. (Evil laugh) :p


Daisy

LOL ;)!! Yes, Yes, Yes!! You've been there - done that :eek: Your brothers in for a rude awakening :D...
... Crazy Daisy KNOWS what the pretty, pinky orange color is all about :D LMAO!!

About the freecycle people... LOL... I noticed that most of them can't tell a table from a chair... LITERALLY...

Last year I bought new dining room chairs to go with my dinning room table because the ones that came with the table were falling apart.
Just last weekend I bought the dinning room table that goes with the chairs, so I was giving the old table away...

My Post said, OFFER: Dining room table without chairs...
In the post, I explained what the table looked like.

Do you know that I had people email me asking "what do the chairs look like", "how many chairs does it come with", etc,etc...

That's funny about the peacocks! I've looked through so many sites viewing these fish but they all had the scientific name instead of their nick names (with the exception of a few)...
I took a wild guess because of what the looked like to me...
After I read your post, I looked up specifically "Sunshine" and "red" peacocks and actually got to see some really good pictures... Thanks:D

Kae

That's funny. I can't believe that they asked what the chairs looked like when you put in that it came without them. Apparently they can't read too well.

I'm glad you got to see some good pictures.

I might be able to get a bigger tank soon. I received my tax refund in the mail yesterday. Woohoo!! Been waiting on that.

Daisy

So, how's it going?
Able to give any fish away?

Hi. Sorry I didn't get back sooner. My dad came home from the hospital the other day, and I just haven't had time to do anything.

How are your fish doing? Are the babies looking any different yet?

I did get rid of about half of the first set of babies. I took the second set out of the breeding cage, and I think they all got eaten. That's okay though. Now I won't have to buy a million gallon tank!! :D

I was watching the fish today, and I noticed that one of the four bigger ones that are in the second tank isn't using one of his fins. It is there but he just doesn't use it, and one of the others keeps chasing him, which I guess means he's sick. Does that sound like anything familiar? And if it does, is it fixable? None of the others are doing that, so I thought that I might have to isolate him for a while? He's trying to eat, but the one other fish keeps going after him every time he comes out to eat.


Thank you so much for your help.

Daisy

Hi.:D Have you found out how Big Mouth is doing lately?

The fish is using his one fin a little today, but he still isn't using it like he should be. I forgot to write yesterday that he holds his fin to his side. I put a little of that Melafix in the tank. Do you think that helped him a little? I put a little food in this morning, also, and he ate a good bit before the other one came to chase him.

I really need to think of names for these fish. I want to name them, I just wouldn't know what to name them.

Daisy :p

The babies are doing good. They still don't look much different though.
They spend a lot of time hiding too.

I haven't heard about Big Mouth lately.
Last time I got an update, she was doing good.

Your fish sounds like maybe it has an injury to it's fin from being picked on.
The melafix does wonders for things like wounds and injuries.

If you separate a fish, separate the bully.
His attitude of being the bully will calm down and it will give the hurt one a chance to establish his place among the other fish.

Hope your dad is doing well.

Kae

That was what I was hoping was that he was just getting picked on. I will definitely separate the bully for a while.

My dad is doing a lot better. He's starting to return to his normal self. I liked him a lot better when he was on the drugs from the hospital. LOL He was really loopy. :D

I FINALLY bought a bigger tank today, and started putting together the stand.


Daisy

That's awesome Daisy!
Are you going to put your convicts in there, or do something different?

Yes, I am going to put my convicts in there (minus most of the babies.) I also bought two Bumblebee/hornet cichlids that I put in the tank with the babies and mama for the moment, and three live plants. I am so excited. I love the bumblebee/hornet cichlids. They were getting along together at my brothers house, and he's had them three weeks (?) so I thought, hopefully they keep getting along together, and bought my own. And so far, since I put them in today, they are getting along great. I am planning on keeping one of the ten gallon tanks as a backup/isolation tank and pass the other on to someone else, just like it was passed to me.

When my mom saw the tank, she says, "Oh no!!!" but she had a huge grin on her face. And I promised my dad as long as he didn't say anything about it I would buy him Happy Feet tomorrow, because he wants to see it. So far he hasn't said a word about it, just kind of glared at me. (In case you're wondering how they are always around, I own half of the house and they own the other half, so we are always around each other. Not exactly who I want to be around all the time, but I would rather have them than have no one.) I would have bought it for him even if he would have said something.

:D :D :D I can't wait to have it all set up!! :D :D :D

Daisy

Don't worry Daisy, I'm 30 and I have to talk to my mother everyday... and
I see her at least 3 times a week - usually more...

Happy Feet was a really cute movie!! I took my kids to go see it.

You are going to love your 55 gal...
It's my favorite size tank...

I started filling my new tank. I haven't gotten very far. I tried mixing the stones, but it didn't work very well. I will have to try again before I put the fish in. I have a background on because I had to put it in front of a window. I was hoping that I would be able to put the fish in on Saturday or Sunday.

The water looks clear in the picture, but it's already cloudy in the tank. I put in the stones that I had in the second tank and a bowl full of the water from the second tank, hoping that it would start the cycle.

There may not be fish in it yet, but I was fishing in it today. My friend has a kid and he was throwing cat food in it. LOL :D He's only three. He was having the time of his life doing it, too.


Daisy:p

That's gorgeous Daisy!

Without any fish in the water, any beneficial bacteria living on the gravel will die (probably why the water is cloudy)
Fish = ammonia = nitrite = nitrate = water change... That's the cycle

Here is a short article that I wrote on an aquarium cycle



Have you ever wondered what it really means for your aquarium to be "cycled"?

This is referring to natures Nitrogen Cycle.
Here is a quick break down for a better understanding:

The Nitrogen Cycle is natures way of purifying itself.
It is the process in which nature creates beneficial bacteria to break down waste.
Just as in nature, an aquarium environment needs to develop a Nitrogen Cycle as well.
This cycle will be what converts the toxic fish waste (fish excreta, urine, and old food) into a non toxic form and is what will keep your aquarium environment clean and healthy.
This a lengthy process and takes much patience.

Just What Does The Nitrogen Cycle Do Inside an Aquarium Environment?

The Nitrogen Cycle has 3 major steps inside an aquarium environment.
When testing the Nitrogen cycle with water test kits, we are reading the byproducts of the Nitrogen Cycle.
These byproducts are ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

Step #1: Ammonia (the byproduct of fish waste)
Fish excreta, urine, and old food pollute aquarium water. The decaying process of this waste creates ammonia which is very toxic to fish.

Step #2: Nitrite (the byproduct of Nitrosomonas Bacteria)
Nature creates a beneficial bacteria called Nitrosomonas Bacteria to break down the ammonia. The converted byproduct of this bacteria is called Nitrite which is still toxic to fish.

Step #3: Nitrate (the byproduct of Nitrobacter Bacteria)
Nature creates a beneficial bacteria called Nitrobacter Bacteria to break down the nitrite. The converted byproduct of this bacteria is called Nitrate which is not toxic to fish if kept at low levels.

In nature, Nitrate byproducts happen to be a food source for plants and algae.
In an aquarium environment, we would not be able to keep enough plants to consume all the nitrate; therefor, we preform partial water changes to remove this byproduct before it reaches toxic levels.

So, the "cycle" moves like this:
fish waste = ammonia (toxic to fish)
Nitrosomonas Bacteria = nitrite (toxic to fish)
Nitrobacter Bacteria = nitrate (not toxic to fish if maintained at low levels)
water change (to remove nitrate)

A "cycled" aquarium should read:
ammonia: 0ppm
nitrite: 0ppm
nitrate: ideal range .1ppm - 40ppm ,
Warning: nitrate levels should never exceed 75ppm




Good luck on adding the fish.
To keep your cycle going, when you add the fish to the water, put all your filter media (cartridge and bio-sponge) inside the new filter behind the filter cartridge :D

I can't wait to see the finished set up (it beautiful already!! ) :D :D :D

I'm going to be gone for a week - talk to you when I get back!!

Kae

:D I couldn't wait to write to you. I got rid of all of my convicts except for two. Pet Smart took them. I decided to keep two males, one white and one striped, so they wouldn't be able to have more babies. I would have kept two females instead, but there was only one female that I actually knew of.

I have a few too many fish in my tank, yet, though.:eek: I bought two fish that are out of the assorted tank, and I don't know what they are. I think the one might be an electric yellow. I'll have to put up pictures then to see if you can hopefully tell me what they are. In the store the second one looked black and white striped, but when I got him in the tank, he has this blue/purple hue to him. I would actually like another one, but I guess that wouldn't be a very good idea? Oh, and I got two chocolate/striped raphael catfish.:D They are awesome looking. And now my brother wants one.

I bought a red tiger oscar, but I'm only keeping him as long as he isn't killing my other fish. I was told by someone today that he will probably eventually eat my other fish, which seems only natural for any type of cichlid. I want to keep him, I want to keep all of my fish. I love the colors, and I won't get rid of him if the other fish never die because of him, but I don't want to end up losing all of my other fish to him.

If I have to get rid of him, maybe I'll put him on FreeCycle and make sure he goes to a tank suited for him. Same with the others, if they seem to not get along too well. We will see if the time ever comes. They are all getting along right now, except the convict chases the other convict, and the bumblebee chases the other bumblebee. (Did I tell you I bought two bumblebee's?) There are 7 cichlids, 2 catfish, and two pleco's. Not as bad as my brother's tank though. He has 10 cichlids and one pleco in a 29 gallon. He said he wants to get a bigger tank when he eventually moves.

I bought a fake piece of driftwood, and they really seem to like it. I'm thinking of going to get another one like it when I get paid again. I also put in a bright colored shell, but I am thinking of taking it out. When I put the pictures up, you will have to tell me if you like it or not. I can't decide. One minute I like it and the next I don't.

Sorry for going on so long, I am just so excited to have a 55 gallon tank, and have it set up. :D If I had the money and the time, I would get an even bigger one (300 gallons seems like a pretty good number to me), but, alas, I don't think that will happen anytime soon, if ever. I am so happy to have a big 55 gallon tank.

I looked for a CO2 tab at my local pet stores, but the only one I found said you had to buy some container or tank to go with it, and it was like 50 bucks, and I don't have that much left to buy it. I bought something else called Flourish. I don't know if you ever heard of that? I was hoping that would suffice for a couple of months, until I can come up with the money to get the CO2 container/tank. This is the information on the bottle: Flourish™ is a comprehensive plant supplement for the natural freshwater aquarium. It contains a rich assortment of important micro elements, trace elements and other nutrients. These include calcium, magnesium, iron and others.

I just found that they also make something called Flourish Excel. Could you tell me if you think this would be good as a CO2 supplement?:confused: Flourish Excel (http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/FlourishExcel.html)
This would be easy enough to buy online and I wouldn't have to buy any type of container to make it work right. And it's liquid so my fish wouldn't sit at the bottom and try to eat a tablet.

Thanks for listening to me go on and on.

Daisy:p

I forgot to tell you, my brothers fishy laid eggs last night. :D

I tried taking some pictures, but some did not turn out so well. These are the pictures of the two unknowns that I bought. I know they are both africans, but nothing else. Also, the tank, as far as it is going to get for a little while, with the bright shell.

And then these pictures are of my bumblebee's and my chocolate catfish, which I read will eat small fish, so I will have to watch out for him, too.

I forgot about the oscar. All of these fish are very camera shy, so getting a good picture was impossible.

How was your week away?

Daisy :D

The tank looks great Daisy!
My Vacation was nice:D Thanks for asking...
I wrote to you when I got back... it seems to have been deleted:(
I may have accidentally done it while messing with my posts...

Anyway... I said that your unknown fish are African Cichlids - I believe your right about the Electric Yellow and the other is a "Blue" Kenyi (I have some of them)...
The "Blue" Kenyi's are really neat fish. As they get older, the females turn pale blue and the males turn bright yellow...

What a precious baby Oscar! He's not likely to eat your other fish because they are growing up together. If he/she was full grown and you added small fish to the tank, then they may be considered dinner.

You know that the African Cichlids are the really really aggressive ones right?
They may be OK as babies, but as they get older, you'll want to keep them with their own kind...
Your Oscar and other fish may not stand a chance - the Africans will kill them...
That has been my experience...
I have 2 really mean African Killing machines... One of them is the Kenyi

Your Rafael's are so cute! Did you know that they are vocal fish!! Really cool!

Your plants should do great with any kind of fertilizer or food you give them.
I believe the ones that fizz (like Jungle plant food) offer extra co2...
Your plants will receive enough co2 from what's in our air (at least they should)
All the ingredients you listed are perfect for plants:D
Are they Amazons? They're really pretty.

I hope your enjoying the new aquarium:)

Loved seeing the Pic's too!

Kae

:D I am happy to finally have a specific name for my what my fish are. I tried looking it up, but with not much to go on, I wasn't successful. I'm glad my Oscar should get along with the others as they get older. I know right now all of the fish get along about 98% of the time. At least they do when I'm around.

I wasn't actually planning on getting an Oscar. I went to the store to see if they would take my convicts, and I looked at the Oscars, and this one was a little different than the rest. I instantly said, “Give me that fish! ” He has about a fifth of the stripes that the others had. You can't really see it in the picture, but on both sides he has a circle in the middle and about four stripes coming out of it. That's it. The pattern makes me think of the Aztec's and their symbols or something like that. It's really neat. He drives me nuts, though. He goes up and down and up and down. The others do that, but not nearly as much.

I do know that the others are Africans, and I do know that they are really aggressive. I am going to be finished paying off my truck loan in 6 months to a year, and was planning on hopefully getting another tank then. Hopefully they will be okay that long. What I pay in one month on my loan will pay for a tank, stand, and a few of the extras.

Will all of the fish eat tubifex worms? I read that the Raphael's will eat tubifex worms, so I bought them, but I couldn't get them to stick to the glass, and they just kept floating. I took them out and threw them away because I didn't want them to keep floating if the others didn't eat them. Someone at work said the Raphael's will eat algae wafers, so I have been putting a couple extra algae wafers in the tank for them.

Speaking of algae wafers, my cat likes them.:eek: I took a few out of the bag and put them on a desk while I went to do something else quick. I came back a minute later to put them in the tank, the wafers were gone and my cat was sitting there. I was like, “What the heck?? ” I took a few more out, and stuck one on the desk, and wouldn't you know it, my cat ate it! Apparently this cat will eat anything!:eek:

I don't know what the plants are. I thought they were neat and the lady at the store said they should be okay with my fish, so I bought them. The lighter ones look like they are disintegrating, though, so I don't know if the leaves are dying or if the fish are eating them. The darker ones are fine, and they are the same kind. I have a different kind of plant in the back, but they are smaller and you can't really see them in the pictures. There was a fern at Petco that I was thinking of getting. I thought it said java fern on the label at the store, but when I got home and looked it up, it looked nothing like it. It looked like a fern plant, but it's leaves were a very, very dark green.

One more thing. Will the plants grow okay with the fluorescent light, or will I have to get a special plant growth bulb? I was thinking maybe that was the problem with the lighter ones looking like they are disintegrating?:confused:

I'm glad you had a good vacation.:)

Daisy:p

I'm glad to hear they're all getting along:D

I tried tubifex worms many years ago... Not one of my fish species would eat them... and back then, I had a wide variety of fish - more so than I do now...

If you have lights designed for saltwater/freshwater tanks or just saltwater tanks, then your plants may not be getting enough artificial sunlight.
They do sell lights specifically for planted aquariums though. I believe it will say for planted aquariums or have something like "natural day light" or something to that effect on the packaging.

Being that you can see the blue hue in your Kenyi, I'd say that you probably have lights suitable for salt and fresh water which does not offer as much artificial sun light.

That's a hard choice to make... If you change your bulbs to natural daylight, the color of your Africans will not show like they do now. And their colors are their best quality...

Oh, Cichlids like Oscars, Red Devils, and all Africans will kill plants when they are adults. They'll dig them up and rearrange the tanks... No kidding! It's kind of amusing. I had to resort to fake plants except in my non aggressive community tank.


Happy Easter!!
I'm getting ready to take my children on an Easter Egg hunt.

Kae

I hope your kids had a good hunt. One of my nephews came over tonight. He's three and he's in his "why" phase. "Why are doing this and why are you doing that? Why did you go upstairs? Why did you go downstairs? Why did you get a drink? Why did you pick up the cat?"

I think I would like to get a plant light. Just because I want to have real plants in my tank. I don't like the fake plants too much. I think I would be okay with the fish not looking so bright. I just like having them and being able to watch them. You can actually see the blue better in the picture than you can just looking at the kenyi's. And I guess I could just figure out what to do later with the plants when they start to tear them apart.


Thanks for all your help.

Daisy

Maybe I can find a fake plant I like, too

Oh Boy... My son just turned 4... He's beginning to get out of the "why?" and "how?" stage now... LOL... Sometimes I would just run out of answers to give him... LOL...

I let algae grow on my fake plants - they're the silk kind. Kind - of helps them to look more realistic.
I love the real plants though, they're much nicer.
I just recently bought some Lillies and a few banana plants. They've been doing really good so far without any added plant food.
I know I'll have to probably add some at some point though.

You'll probably be able to grow plants in your aquarium for a good long time before your fish start rearranging them.

I was reading on planted aquariums a while back and I seem to remember a technique where they used some plastic crates below the gravel to protect the roots from cichlids... I'll have to see if I can find that article again so that you can read it.

When I run out of answers to give to my nephew, or if I just don't feel like answering him, I say, "Because I wanna." And of course he says, "Why?" LOL :D

I had to change my avatar. I was downloading the pictures I took of the fish, and I saw this picture of the one convict looking directly at the camera. I couldn't decide if he looked more like he was smiling at me or more like he was trying to talk to me. I thought it was so funny. :) I know it's a little blurry, but that was the best I could get it considering how close to the camera he came.

That would be great if you could try to find that article sometime. I would defintely read it.


Daisy:p

I think the new pic is cute!
He looks like he was courious... "Hey what are you doing out there? Take my pic!!!" He's so cute!!
I'll look for the article:D

Kae

That is exactly what he looks like he's saying. LOL :D

Did you ever have a jaguar cichlid? I'm not planning on getting one, but I think they are pretty neat looking. I would like to get one in the future. If you did, how did you find it? Temperament, etc.


Daisy :D

Oh my gosh... LOL yes I did...
They are Central American Cichlids...

They are pretty common where I live.
They are sold under the name Aztec Cichlids (at least here).

I had him with a Red Devil (also central American)
That bugger was mean as hell!! So was the Red Devil.
He died from what I believe was stress due to fighting his reflection 24/7...

I'd go to feed him and he come out to where he could see me and try to attack me through the glass.
If anyone was walking by the tank, he go after you.
My dog would be walking by the tank, the fish would come out like he was attacking her through the glass, she'd stand there and watch him and he'd really be going absolutely nuts trying to kill her through the glass - gills flaring and all...
He had some mean looking teeth too with a bad under bite where the teeth were visible.

Oh, once I left his food can sitting beside the glass.
I could hear rocks and stuff scattering around, so I peeked in the room to see what he was doing in there and he was trying to kill the picture of the fish on his food can... Crazy fish...

LOL That is hilarious, poor thing. So I guess it wouldn't be a good idea to put them in with other fish. Or at least not a lot of other fish. There is a guy on aquaria central that put pictures of his 250 gallon tank, and he has a jaguar cichlid in it with, I think, like 20 other fish. Maybe more. And only one jaguar as far as I could tell.


Aquaria Central (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103694&highlight=Rallysman)

Daisy :P

Those are some amazing looking fish!!
But that persons tank is way too crowded... Not much of a life for the fish...

I thought it looked like there were too many in there too, even with my un-experienced eyes. And they're HUGE.

It makes me wonder how they got to be so beautiful in a tank that is so crowded...
I would think that they would be all torn up from fighting or getting picked on... something...
His water is clean too!!
I wonder how he does it...

I sure don't know how he does it. I thought maybe lots of water changes. Or maybe he just got lucky and has a bunch of oddly un-aggressive fish.

LOL... True!
He had a lot of Bass, I wonder if their not as aggressive.
Along with a lot of water changes, he must have a massive filtration system going on...
The fish are absolutely beautiful; however, I'm baffled.
YOU ask him Daisy... hehe... I'm too shy...

Kae

I asked, so keep your eye on it, in case he answers. Any other questions, let me know and I'll post.


:D

Hey Thanks!!
:D :D :D :D :D

Kae

So the guy hasn't come back yet... pitty, I hope he does...
BTW, the fish common name is peacock bass, bass, cichla... all the same thing...
I hate posting in fish forums because you have some people who think they're know it alls... can't stand that... If the guy had any since at all, he would have known what you were referring too.

I figured out cichla were cichlids, but, I'm blonde, I get confused easily, so... Can't win them all. :D Soon to be a red head though. My cousin is going to dye my hair for me this weekend. Maybe it will help my confusion a little. LOL :D I'm used to people like that, starting with my brother. He asked me for help with his tank and then told me I was wrong with the answer I gave him, even though I asked three people, including you just to make sure everyone had the same opinion, because it's his tank and I don't want him telling me I screwed it up, who all gave me the same answer. And I told him this, but no, we are all wrong. I also printed out the article I found that said plecos need fruits and veggies in their diets, and showed it to him, and he told me I am weird.

I bought another Kenyi a week or two ago, a really neat looking one, his stripes were a little different, and he died last night, but I don't know how. I'm thinking one of the other fish did it, but I couldn't even begin to guess which one. The other one is fine, so can I strike out the possibility that it might have been the water? I thought it was also weird because one of my plecos was letting out air at the bottom of the tank and then it looked like he went up for air and went back down. I didn't think plecos did that. I don't remember any of the other fish going up for air either. And I have a bubble stone, actually three, in the tank. Do you think maybe I need to change my water or something?

Oh, the kenyi wasn't floating, he was on the gravel, but he was definitely dead.

There are at least 4 types of "cichla" cichlids that I know of.
They get the nickname "cichla" because of their scientific names:
Cichla ocellaris
Cichla orinocensis
Cichla monoculas
Cichla temensis
Each of these cichlids can be called "cichla" for short,
But other cichlids like oscars (astronotus ocellatus) for instance couldn't be called cichla.
I think it's confusing... LOL and I'm a brunitte...
I wish every fish had 1 universal name LOL
It would make things so much simpler to us fish people LOL

I colored my hair red once :eek: it was a disaster...
I hope yours turns out good and you like it.

I also tried to go blond once, but ended up with a tangerine head LOL
Both times I had to have it professionally fixed...

I wish you the best of luck... I hope it turns out beautiful.

I love blond hair personally, my daughter and son both have blond hair and my husband has dirty blond hair - I have always wished for it. Here is a picture (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/member-discussions/pictures-our-members-43867-26.html) of my family and I, you'll have to scroll down to number 260.

Let me know how it goes.

Kae

I thought you had 2 blue Kenyi's, did one die?

I posted about the kenyi right before you, I think. It is there, I double checked, because I have known myself to accidentally delete it.

I think if you found the right shade you would be a beautiful red head. There are so many different shades. And you do have to give it time to get used to it. I'm actually dirty blond, so sometimes my hair looks blond and sometimes it looks brown. I say to people that my blond side only shows when I'm acting a bit ditzy. I tried picking out a red color before, but it was dark and kind of looked purple, so I guess I picked out the wrong color. Some of the residents at work actually liked it; these are people in their 70's, 80's, and 90's!! Till I decided to dye it blond again I was actually liking it, where when I first did it I thought it looked horrible, and my mom grew to like it too. This color is different, definitely shouldn't have a purple tint to it. I don't think I have any pictures of myself. My dad has one from when he was in the hospital with my sister, my brother and I, but I don't think he would appreciate if I posted it. He was out cold and there were breathing tubes coming out of his throat. Maybe I'll have someone take a before and after picture of me, and post them in a week or two. What do you think?

It's bedtime. I need to be up at 4:45 tomorrow morning.

LOL!!
That is so strange. As soon as I posted, I realized that your signature list was different, so I asked. But I didn't realize that you had posted again about the Kenyi until just now.

I believe it's safe to assume that it's not the water.
Do you have any water tests to test it with?

I have some Cory catfish that go up to the surface of the water and grab a few air bubbles - they're not known to do it, but mine do... and I have plenty of bubbles and air in my tank.

They are fine despite the strange behavior and are about 3 years old...

I've never heard of plecos doing it either, but if he seems otherwise healthy, I wouldn't worry too much.

Your probably right about the Kenyi getting killed by another fish.
Probably just got real stressed out or beat up.

When I add new fish to an aquarium that has aggressive territorial fish already living in it, I rearrange the tank before adding the new fish.
This way, all the fish have to find new territories to claim and the newbie can find his spot along with the others instead of being chased away from "everyone elses spot".
It makes introducing a new fish less stressful on it.

Also Daisy, pet stores sell sick fish and he could have just had something...

I'm real sorry you lost the fish though...
From your description about how he was at the bottom of the tank though sounds like fish attacks.

I saw this a lot when my two killing machines were in the community tank.
The fish they would target would become so swollen and stiff from attacks that they would sink to the bottom and die.
It has something to so with swelling.

The shade of red I chose before did have a funky hue to it, it didn't match my skin tone.
My hair naturally has a lot of red in it, so I wanted to enhance the red tones and dilute the brown ones,
But I totally messed up.
Now I'm waiting for my hair to get healthy enough for me to do something different with it again.
It had been way over processed between perms and color and highlights for so long that it started breaking.
At one point it felt like dry straw... it was a nightmare.

A before and after picture would be exciting!

Kae

I didn't think it was my water, it's only been up and running about two or three weeks. I tested the water last week and then I did it again yesterday after I took the fish out. They were both the same. Nitrate 20, nitrite .5, hardness 75, alkalinity was between 40 and 80, and the PH was a little bit lighter color than the 6.8, but not anywhere close to the 6.2 color. Besides, it's natural spring water; NOT store bought natural spring water, natural, natural spring water. This is a pipe coming out of a natural spring close to where I live, and I went there and filled 50 one gallon jugs with the water. I thought that would be better for them than tap water. Hoping it would, anyway.

They all seem healthy. The bumblebees look twice as big as when I bought them.

I never really permed or tinted my hair much, just dyed it every six months. I haven't dyed it in a few years, so it's pretty much it's natural color. I permed it once a few years ago, but I hated using that pick-comb thingy that you use to keep it wavy or curled, so I started using the brush again about a week later. My mom calls it a pick, I don't know if that's what it's really called.

Yeah it's a pick... at least that's what I call it too.
I don't like them either... I use a brush and wet my hair before I brush it.
Plus, it's so long that the weight of it stretches the curls to where using a pick really does no good.

Wow Daisy! That's some real dedication to fill 50 gallons of fresh natural spring water for your fish... you go girl!!

I don't mind filling them. It only took about a half hour or so to do it. And I've heard its better for the fish than store bought or tap. It's free, too. If I had to pay to fill my jugs up, I would think twice, depending on the price.

I have no clue about freshwater springs.
That's really cool that you have one near you.
What does it look like? Just water coming out of the ground? Or does the pipe drain the water into a creek or something like that?

There is a pipe that comes out of the ground, and is set in concrete to keep it there. It constantly drains, but it doesn't really drain into anything, it just kind of goes down to the right where the ground is slanted. I don't know if it just soaks into the ground or if it runs somewhere else. The creek is across the street from it.

Sorry, I would write more, but there is an annoying lady on the phone and I can't think with her whining.

Also, it is someone private property, and they don't care that people come to get the water. That's actually why they put it in there, for other people. If it had been public property, that pipe would definitely NOT be there, much less set in concrete.

Well that's very neat:D

That guy on the other site responded to all the questions he was asked at one time. It would be the third and fourth response down that you are looking for. I think he changes too much of the water at once, but apparently it's working for him.

I'll take a look - thanks for the heads up:D

I think my cat is going wack. I picked her up and brought her upstairs with me. As we came closer to my door, she started yelling and hissing. When I opened my door, I let her go. She went flying up the steps, hissing and yelling the whole way up and around the corner. She was fine once she got into my bedroom. Then, when I stood up to go back down, she flew out of my room, hissing and screaming the whole time she was going down the steps. Then she sat at the bottom of the steps, hissing until the door opened. She went out and she was fine. I don't know if she doesn't like my room or if there's "something" up there that she doesn't like. And at least one of my other cats can't stay up in my room by herself without screaming and ramming into the door trying to get out. I have to be up there with her. I don't know. Think maybe my cats are a little wacko?

That is very strange...
What could she be hissing at... hummm...
I would think that something is making her mad or scared...
Or maybe she whacked. LOL. My dog is whacked - barks at nothing all the time...

I have a cat dilemma myself... A new little stray showed up...

I have another cat that does that, too, but this one goes near my door at lot more than the other one.

Uh Oh... are you thinking of keeping it? People are going to start calling you "cat lady" soon. LOL :D

I think it wants to "keep me"... hehe... She was wondering around the neighborhood before she decided to stay for good.
I'll probably try to find her a home.
I think she's pregnant...
And at this time, she won't let me get close enough to touch her.

I posted a question about her in the cat section...

I wonder what it is that your cats are going crazy over...
My cats do similar weird things, but it's usually because they're pissed that I'm going to put them outside...

Hope this post helps you some. Gestation period for cats is 60 days or so, so if you're thinking she's pregnant, you might want to find her a home ASAP if you decide you don't want to keep her. I know when mine started showing they only had about two or three weeks, before they had some little kitties. Since the stray is small, she could be showing early. Mine only had one or two the first time, but that could just be a family trait. After the first time they all had a steady four kitties. I know some cats have six or eight kitties at once. And if her nipples look full and they are kind of hard like they would be when they are full of milk (if you get her to trust you enough to pick her up and feel), she is almost DEFINITELY pregnant.

You could always try calling your vet and asking him/her if there is anything specific you should look for in the next few weeks, until you can get her in, to tell whether she has worms. If you don't get anywhere with your vet, I can always try calling a vet near me and ask them for you, but I've found that when they know you've been there before and you promise to bring them in to the office when you can, they give out the information you need. One thing they may tell you, but I'm not 100% certain that they will, is to keep her by herself until you know for sure, because worms can be passed in the fesces. At least that's what I was told in December. I had gotten my cousin's cat fixed for her because I am in a program that is cheap, and her cat had worms. Luckily for me, I kept her away from my cats. And Rescue Groups are ALWAYS full, especially in the spring, which is when all the little kitties that were born in january/february come out to play, and everyone says, "Oh, look at all these homeless little kitties."

This probably isn't exactly the best way to catch her because you would be forcing her hand (or paw, as the case is), BUT, you could always try to trap her in a raccoon trap, so you can take her in for a while, keep her in a room by herself, until you can get done what needs to be done, and if she has kitties in the meantime, at least they will be inside just in case something happens (you know, this weird weather). If you live somewhere that has possible snow (I live in PA, so it can snow through May) then they would already be warm and cozy and you wouldn't be worried that they would be too cold or something else of that nature. And also with her being in the room, she is likely to trust you a lot more quick because she knows she is relying on you to bring her food and water, and you would be her only contact. But this is only a suggestion. I understand if you don't want to do this. This is how I caught one of my cats. There were two kittens under the trash compactor at work September a year and a half ago, and we weren't sure how to get them out. Someone finally remembered she had a raccoon trap. She brought it in. I put milk and tuna fish in a bowl in the back of the trap, and within 24 hours we had caught BOTH of the kittens. The only problem is that the one bit me, and I had to get rabies shots. BUT the kitten did not have rabies, and he was scared because I was the first human contact that this kitten had ever had, and he was only about two months old at the time. (There are barns near by and we are 99% certain they came from the farm.) As I said, this is only a suggestion, and I understand if you don't want to try something like this. Oh, I found a home for the second kitten.

I think it's kind of weird because they only do it at my door. I swear I didn't do anything to them to make them do that. The one actually used to come up to my room all the time, for about two years, maybe more. Then all of the sudden she started hissing at my door. Maybe there's something evil in my room. :D I've heard cats can sense these things. :D

Yes! That helped me a bunch!
I don't have a trap, but it did spark a different idea on how to catch her.
Maybe I could block the cat door so that she can't run out of the garage and get her that way.

Or, I could put a crate on the other side of the cat door so that when she goes out, she goes into the crate...

She doesn't act terrified, just acts like she doesn't want me to touch her.
She'll come up to the food dish with me sitting right beside it, but will move out of the way when I reach to touch her.
Then, she'll come back and eat a little more and we repeat the process.

I was worried that I might not have enough time to get her to the vet,
From what you described about your cats makes me want to try to catch her even more...

But I don't want to get bit... I think I'll try the crate thing.

You had to get rabies shots:eek: did they have to give them in your stomach??
That had to be awaful...

I'll give my vet a call tomorrow to see if they'll give me any information.
Usually they wouldn't because I've called about strays before,
But maybe they will this time since they can look on their records and see how much money I've
Spent there in the last few months with all my animals yearlys...

Yes, we've had some strange weather this year...
I'm further south, so I didn't feel any of that sub zero weather you guys had up north.
My husband felt it though, he had a layover in Chicago and decided to go feel the cold air... he felt it all right... LOL
We did get a half an inch of snow out of it though. It was nice but gone by the next morning...
It was the first snow in 4 years.
And when I say snow, I'm talking an inch... LOL

Then last week was a bit chilly too.

My grandparents live in Moore Pa.
They said they froze their butts off this winter... and some this spring...

You know Daisy, I totally believe in spirits, and I do feel that animals can either see them or sense them...
It was the first thing I thought of when I read how your cat acted,
But I didn't say anything... some people get freaked out over that kind of stuff.

I have had experiences with stuff like that... pretty much total confusion and no answers for the incidences, but I'm 100% a believer...
There is something more out there (I feel anyway)
What's your take on it?

Oh, I forgot to mention...
Big Mouth is doing great.
She's made a friend with another female oscar...
Yeah!!
I was also told that she ate a fish:eek:

It made me start thinking about your Oscar.
Most of the fish you have will be too big to fit in it's mouth because their growing up together... But if any stay small, they might get eaten:eek:

This woman says her Oscars go after the bigger babies in the tank that can no longer hide and that Big Mouth picked up on it too.

She allows it to happen though, as a way to feed the Oscars and to control the fish population in the tank...

Kind-of sad, but she has a huge natural set -up and it happens in nature...

I don't remember exactly where the first set of rabies shots were, because they had to give them at five different spots, and there were ten shots total the first time. They said they had to put them at the same spot on the opposite sides of my body. Then I had to go back for one shot for four certain days. Those they just shot into my back thigh. They have a specific amount of time that they have between each of the shots. I think the second time is 6 days after the first ones, third one 7 days after that, something like that. But I'm not sure anymore how long between each shot is exactly. This was a year and a half ago, and I'm planning on not getting bit by a stray cat again. They weren't that bad. Most people say, "EWW! NEEDLES!!" But I gave blood before I had to get the shots, so needles don't bug me. And you can't give blood for a year after you get the rabies shots, since that is how long they stay in your blood stream. Vets have to get their shots redone every year so if they get bit they are safe. That's what I was told, anyway.

If your vet doesn't give you any info, I will call one of my vets for you. He should though, since you would be bringing her in to them at some point in the near future. I've been to about three different ones around here, so I'm sure someone will help. The people at the desk are pretty nice too, when I call. Hoping your vet will help you. If they don't, they are being jerks, that's all, in my opinion.

I do believe in spirits, too. There are things that happen consistently in my room that I can't figure out why. Such as, my radio turning on and off by itself. The one night last year, when I still had the air conditioner in the window yet, I had it off when I went to sleep. I woke up at 300am and the air conditioner was on. It wasn't too cold yet, so it couldn't have been on very long. Not a minute after I woke up, my radio turned on. I got up and turned both of them off. I laid back down, and as soon as I was flat on my back, my air conditioner came back on. I turned it off and made a bee-line for the steps. But, if it was a spirit, I would think all of my cats would act that way around my room. Unless they are just used to it from being in my room a lot. That's what I can't figure out. I told my sister about that and a couple of other things that have been happening (like the knocking coming from the second floor that my parents didn't hear and the footsteps coming up my stairs in the middle of the night), and she told me she is never going into my room again. I don't like to think on it too much, I may never get to sleep again. :D My house is 97 years old, so I'm SURE there are spirits in this house. One of my friends (the lady on the phone that is annoying, she knows I find her annoying, but she just can't seem to stop talking) wants to bring over her video camera and let it record one night to see of she catches anything.

I so glad Big Mouth is doing great. I'm sure she would do it anyway, being it is different tank, different fish, different circumstances. It's just natural.

If any of my fish get eaten, then I figure it is a way for me to learn NOT to put that particular type of fish in the tank with my Oscar or whatever fish ate it. :D

Wow Daisy, that is pretty spooky...
I understand you don't really like talking about it.
I can relate... I truly can...

As long as you're safe and nothing has tried to hurt you.

I'm not worried about getting hurt. I don't feel it's an evil spirit, just left behind. I think if it was going to hurt me it would have done that by now. It's just freaky when these things are happening and you don't know where it's coming from. My parents have said there are a couple of things that happened to them that they couldn't explain, but I don't know what it was that happened and I know that I have had more experiences than they have. Of course, it doesn't help that they like to tell me I'm nuts for even suggesting it. I know the previous owners wife died of cancer, I think 6 or 7 years ago. I thought maybe it is her. She was only in her 50's. And I found from our neighbors that she loved gardening almost as much as I do.

It's just freaky when these things are happening and you don't know where it's coming from
My thoughts exactly!

The little kitty is letting me hold her. Yea!
She is purring like a motor...

I talked it over with my husband and were going to put the vet bill on our credit card...

I'll let you know what they say tomorrow:D

Took her in today.
She had fleas, an upper respiratory infection, and is pregnant...

They tested her for diseases - all were negative.

She's on antibiotics and will get shots/spayed after she has her kittens (probably another 3 weeks)

Then hopefully I'll be able to find her a home and the kittens too.

I'm glad you got her and took her in to get checked out. Respiratory infections are not fun. I'm also glad that she tested negative for diseases. It makes everything easier all around. With some of the diseases they can get, they have to be on meds for the rest of their life, and then you have to watch to see if the kittens have it too. I'm glad you got her before she had the kittens. I hate having stray cats, because you don't know if their eating OK, if their healthy just in general. And then most of the time they aren't fixed, so the females keep squirting out kittens until they die. Which makes an even bigger stray cat population that aren't being taken care of. Not that I actually hate the cats. I just hate that they have to live that life of not knowing when they will eat again and whatnot. I was also told that you can't spay a mother cat until the kittens are six to eight weeks old, or when they start eating hard food (and she will be ready to mate again). She won't be able to make milk for them to drink. I think she loses the hormone to make it or something. And you have to watch she doesn't go back outside. Especially if she is in heat. My one cat used to be an outside cat, and whenever she was in heat, she would fight tooth and nail to get back out. That's how she got pregnant the last time, which was three years ago. We had a hard time getting her to stay in after that, though. She was finally fixed December 2005. (YEAH!! )

I have some before and after pictures of myself. Advanced warning, though, I'm not much to look at. Just thought you should know before you looked at them. I hope they are clear enough. My mom took them and she is not too great of a picture taker. It will have to do if they aren't.

I took a picture myself to see if I could get the color better. It's only bright like that in direct sunlight or REALLY bright lights (like the flash.) Other wise it's more like in the first picture. My dad said he thinks I look like Kelly Osbourne. And that's my room. It's not black but a very dark blue. I love it.

Crazy Daisy! It's spunky and I love it!
Your beautiful! Don't be so hard on yourself!!
I love the pictures and the hair and the cats!! And the dark blue walls too!
The light shining on it makes it look like it has a hint of purple in it too.
That's actually one of my favorite colors, that and really deep red.

The vet did say that I would have to keep her indoors until her kittens stopped nursing then she can get spayed, and only then would it be safe for her to go outside again.


I'm glad you know a lot about cats, I think I'm going to have a lot of questions - LOL...
You were right about when they start showing too! She only has a few weeks left they said...
She doesn't like my other cats, and they don't like her either. I'm going to have to keep her separated - that I feel with my nosy cats is going to be hard.
She looks just like 2 of them that showed up here as strays too.
Solid black and their faces look very similar.
Kind of wondering if they are related.

Thank you so much. I can't help myself though. I'm always hard on myself. I guess I just expect more of myself then I am able to give to myself.

Maybe they will get used to each other. If you introduced her slowly to them, maybe a couple of hours a day, they would get used to her at some point. I would just make sure that you were around just in case they started making noises. Noises that sounded like they are saying, "I am SERIOUSLY going to injure you!" They don't know her scent. I think right now she is invading their space and they don't like it, but once they see her repeatedly and start to recognize her scent more they may start to like her. Of course, they could just totally hate each other in the end. Three of my cats loved each other for like six months or so and then all of a sudden they started fighting. We thought they were going to literally kill each other. I bought some cages so when they were fighting (which was pretty much all the time) I could put them in. We used the cages, too, when the kittens were born, so the other cats would stay away from the kittens. We just recently put the cages away. (When I bought my tank :D)

It is possible that they could be related, but I don't know if there is any way to tell. They might do DNA tests to see of they are related, but I would imagine it would be really expensive if they do. It could also be that they come from the same breed. Half of mine that are related don't look at all alike. At least I don't think they do. Maybe that's because I'm used to them.

Actually, I just found this page that says they do DNA testing. I have no idea what info they can give you if you order, and you had to register to get prices, unless I did it wrong.

http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/

If you have questions about cats, ask away. I'll answer to the best of my knowledge. :D

That's a great link, I actually sent it to my mom too.
She is interested in learning about some of the stuff it had in there about horses coat colors... the gene make up and such.

I'm so shocked that this cat was thin when she first started coming around.
She didn't look pregnant at all, then boom, she did.

She's so funny, always meowing.

When she first let me pet her, she was in the garage rubbing her face on the corner of the box I gave her, then she came over to me and started rubbing on my leg. I was shocked.
She never really seemed fearful, just not very trusting, I'm guessing she changed her mind, maybe the box wasn't doing a good enough job - LOL...

Once she's done with the antibiotics, I'll try introducing them slowly like you suggested. Maybe they'll become familiar with her sent for the time being.

I'll take some pics of her to show you
Oh, and of my baby fish (well, some don't look like babies anymore)
I have them all identified except for that little yellow one - it's still small and looks exactly the same.
All the others changed colors and are growing fast.
How are yours doing?

I can be pretty critical of myself too. I feel like a big dope A LOT.
I get nervous talking to people and really make myself look like an idiot.
I'm always haunted by the thought that everyone I talk to either thinks I'm on speed or just really stupid... I find myself avoiding many public situations where I have to talk to people because of it...
I was on meds for it for 15 years, then I started having seizures and none of them worked anymore.
After that I went all natural (herbs and food), it helps with the depression I have but does absolutely nothing for the nervousness.
It's something I try to deal and live with, but I'm very, very hard on myself about it (to the point that it makes me nervous - go figure) LOL

Thank you for giving me all this advice about cats - I really am thankful!

I hope at least one of you can get something out of the web page.

A lot of cats who have known people are not fearful of other people, they just don't know them and don't trust them. You did something that made her trust you-probably your patience waiting for her. Patience does pay off. I would love to see her.

My fish are doing great. Since that one died, none of the other seem to be having a problem. I found out my plecos don't like cucumbers or spinach, so no more buying them for them. I bought a whole bag of spinach and it's sitting in my fridge rotting because they won't eat it. I hate spinach myself, so I don't blame them any. They like zucchini and seem to like squash. I haven't tried the sweet potatoes yet. My big convict is moving rocks a lot lately, but I didn't think that there were any females in there ready to mate yet. Maybe he's just digging a hole under the log for the catfish. :D

I was like that until I was seventeen. I was nervous I would say the wrong thing and look stupid, or talk gibberish. (Which I do about once a week. There are like three things I want to say all at once and the sentences come out all together, combined, so nothing makes sense. I always tell the person I am talking to that I have to start over. And they always think it's funny.) There was so much pressure. I then decided that the pressure wasn't worth what I was getting from the other people, which was nothing. I figure if they think I'm an idiot, so be it. But I also don't have a confirmed medical condition, so it's a bit different. I was just tired of not meeting everyone's expectations-it's impossible to do that-so I just take it one day at a time, and congratulate myself when I do something how I wanted, or better than I wanted. And if I don't do it well, then I practice so the next time I'm a little better. Seriously, your well-being is more important than how other people perceive you.

If you do something that you don't like, just say, "Next time I'll ______." (Fill in the blank.) And practice it. People think I'm a little wacky because sometimes when I'm practicing, I talk to myself. Now all I have to do is live up to my own expectations. I was depressed too, guess I still am, because it is a life long condition, though I wasn't diagnosed by my doctor. It was the school therapist. And I never went on meds, or really got help for it. I have a lot more patience than I used to, and I'm not so hard on myself. But there are certain things that I just can't help being critical of, like how I look. If other people can't except me for the way I look, I say, I don't need them. But I still can't keep myself from being critical about it.

Thank you for those kind and encouraging words...

BTW, My mom loves the website.
She's interested in breeding one of her horses to get a baby with a distinct coloration.
She has to find a horse that has the same color gene as hers, then hope it gets passes along from both parents to the baby.
It can only be done through genetic testing and that website gave her a lot of information to go on.

They do DNA testing also, supposedly from reading that site, vets can too.

I would love to know if the cats are related but will probably never have enough money to spend on it.

I can feel the babies moving in her stomach. It's pretty cool. They're kicking around in there...
Today she was doing something weird too.
You know like when you get a muscle twitch... she was doing her back like that today... twitching it... thats the only way I know how to explain it.

I took a picture of her, I don't know what I should call her...
3371

She's cute. She looks healthy. Her coat looks shiny, and I was always told that is a sign of a healthy cat. She looks like my black cat, Bear. I could give you a couple of suggestions that might lead you to a name you like. If you want a theme to her color, you could name her smokey, blackie, midnight, bear, grizzley, chocolate (dark), ash, shadow. If you want an inspiring name, faith, hope, angel. Princess, Emma or Vic (short for Victoria), Muffin, honey. I've known people who name their animal after their maiden name. I kind of think she looks like a Connie.

As the babies get bigger, you will see them kicking her stomach while she is walking or laying there. You won't even have to feel it because you'll be able to see it.

I don't know what to tell you about the twitching. I know my cats twitch at their spine sometimes, but only every once in a great while. I guess they have an itch or something is irritating them. I wouldn't worry about it unless she does it a lot or she seems to be in pain. If there was something wrong the vet should have seen it when you took her in.

This page should be able to help you out a bit for getting ready for her labor. I would like to add to it-don't give her a litter box while she is giving birth. She may end up having them in the litter box, because cats are comfortable in litter boxes, and litter is not safe for the new-born kittens. Most cats have them at night, so when it is closer to time, I would take the litter box out at night. I did that the last time.
http://www.2ndchance.info/felinelabor.htm

There are two links in the page, and the first one would be good to keep in mind just in case something happens that she isn't taking care of one or more of them. When Winky was a couple of weeks old, we noticed that she wasn't getting bigger and she was thin, so I bottle fed her CAT's milk until she could stand and reach the bottom of a bowl which was about an inch and a half tall, and then she drank CAT'S milk until she was able to eat dry food. You have to stay near-by though, so if they fall in for some reason, you are there to catch them. It doesn't take a big bowl for them to fall into. They sell cat's milk at the store near where I live, so if you need it, hopefully you can find some. Your vet should be able to sell some to you too. If you need some and can't find any around your area, let me know, I'll send you some.

That is a great link!
I think I'll be reading it over and over again.

I have seen kitten formula. I'll buy some just to keep on hand.

My other 2 black cats are named Silky and Shadow.
I really like the name Midnight and Smoky and Faith for her...

:D I'm glad it's helping you. I want to say something else too. I don't know if you've heard this before, but if a kitten is sick or dead when it is born, the mother will eat it. If it happens, I don't want you to think there is something wrong and that is why she is doing it-this is natural. Also, it is kind of gross to watch them eat the after birth, so if you are watching her and you can't take that type of thing too well, you might want to leave for a few minutes. I never had a problem watching to make sure everything was OK, but I just couldn't watch them eat the after birth.:eek:

Yuck! Thanks for the warning.

LOL :D you're welcome

Not to belittle anything that has been posted here. But, it is amazing how this post has evolved!

Did you read the WHOLE 14 pages? If you did, I'm impressed. I usually can't get past the end of the second page before moving on to another post. I think I have a short attention span or something. LOL :D

Not to belittle anything that has been posted here. But, it is amazing how this post has evolved!
Not to belittle your posts, but it's amazing how you have 737 of them in one month.

I guess I am taking it a little offensively, but then again, I'm having a bad day.

It's funny how clough popped in with his/her 2 cents worth right at the end...
I've been trying to think whether it had anything to do with how it just stopped, but I can honestly say that I have no questions or concerns about anything...
The links are great and I think I'm going to be pretty prepared...

LOL this is a crazy thread.
Sometimes they get deleted or moved when they stray too far off topic like this one has...

Maybe the moderator didn't read it too well. Or maybe we kept enough in it about the animals. I think if he wouldn't have put in the "belittling," he wouldn't have offended. I asked a question in another forum a couple weeks ago and he answered it there, so he might have looked at my profile and seen this thread, but I don't know for sure. Or he could have just been going through the threads.

Back out to do more yard work . :rolleyes:

How's the latest edition doing? Did you pick a name yet?

Yum, yard work...
Did a lot of that today too - and yesterday.
It was so hot, I thought I was going to pass out.

What started as tree pruning, resulted in the whole tree having to be cut down.
I'm a bit of a tree hugger, so I am very upset about it.
The tree guy we hired messed up so bad... more like tree mulator...

I don't know if the moderators read all the posts.?

The new addition is doing well...
My daughter has named her Sparkle.
She's "nesting" everywhere except for the box I gave her.
And it's a nice box. If I were a cat, I'd want to be in it. LOL

I find her a lot of times in the newspaper recycling bin.
I found her in a suitcase that I left open on the floor of my closet.
And she likes to get in the bathroom counter under the sink - she'll paw the door open. LOL
She's quite the character.

I'm thinking about giving up my 2 adult African males so that I can free up the tank for more of a community environment.

They're fighting a lot and really despise one another...

I don't know though. I've given up a lot of fish in my time of fish keeping and I have regretted some of them.
I try to think of the fish though instead of my own personal feelings...
It still makes me sad though...

It's only between the mid-50's to the early-70's here. Today the high is 68, so it really isn't that bad. But it looks like it's going to rain, so I don't know how much I'll get to today. Neither of my parents do yard work, so it's up to me. We have five trees in our backyard (in the middle of town, with a small yard), and when the leaves fall, it's a pain to clean up, but I get it done. I end up with like 25-30 bags of leaves till I'm done. And that's packing the bags till nothing else will fit and I can barely close it. I've actually taken ten bags to work and put them in the trash compactor once because I didn't have anywhere to put them.

At least you know not to hire that company the next time you need that tree pruned. Which won't be for quite a while.

Sparkle is a good name. You could try putting her in the box a couple times a day. Hopefully she'll eventually get the hint. Did you put a towel or something soft in it? That'll help if you didn't.

Sometimes doing the right thing isn't easy. Maybe you could just get rid of one and get another one that would be better in the tank with the one you keep.

My high was 85 today - tomorrow is going to be 89 and the nights are low 70's...
I didn't go outside today LOL
I don't like it when the heat first comes, it takes a little while for me to adjust before it doesn't bother me.
I have to give you credit for cleaning up that many leaves.
That's a hard job. Great exercises, but it's not any fun.

I'm starting to get excited about the kittens.
I'm all curious about what they're going to look like.

Sparkle and her kittens are probably going to cost me a lot of money, so
I was thinking I'll probably hold off on changing my tanks around for now.
It will give me some time to think about what I want to put in it too...

I thought I responded already. Oh well. I mowed the grass today after work because it's supposed to pour tomorrow. Didn't get to it on the weekend. Finally, the grass isn't a foot high. :D

If you plan on getting her fixed before you find a new home for her, then she'll definitely cost you a lot of money. I have had a couple people tell me that when you put up signs for a cat, when the people call, you should ask for like $25 for him/her, so you get someone who actually wants it. You can say to help cover the costs of the neutering. Or you can ask the person to come to their house to visit every couple of months or something, and if they say no, then don't give them the cat. There are people who go around looking for free cats to take to a lab to test products on, and a lot of the cats die, or have a horrible life. Anyone who is seriously thinking about keeping the cat will say yes to either or both of those things.

You'll have to take pictures of the kittens when they are a couple of weeks old.

I don't know if you want to read the next part. It is just me venting about my mom.

I have a bad short term memory (or a short attention span, whatever you want to call it), and there is an article that a recent study shows that people with chronic back pain have a bad short term memory. I always forget to take my clothes out of the dryer, and on Saturday I forgot to do it after my mom asked me to. She sat there and said to my dad that I am lazy. Like I wasn't five feet away and couldn't hear her. So I sent her the article, and she sent it back to me. I asked her why and she said, "Well, you sent it too me." Which makes no sense to me. I said to her that was because she sat there and said I was lazy, the one who does ALL of the outside work by herself, and cleans the third floor (my room) by herself, AND is trying to fix up the basement, all by herself. She said she never said it. "I never said you are lazy." HA. Yeah right.

So of course we are in a fight now. I said to her, "Yes you did. I was sitting right there when you said it. I'm not stupid and I can hear." And then I told her I think she has dementia. I work in a retirement home. I would know. So she tells me I'm a liar. I said, "Why did you even have me if you never wanted me?" which is totally off the subject, but I was really upset, because she does this to me all the time (says I'm lazy and says something bad about me then denies it and calls me a liar). She said, "That's not what we're talking about."

One we weren't TALKING, we were screaming at each other. Two, she didn't deny it. If your mother wanted you at some point in your life, don't you think she would deny that and say, "I love you, of course I wanted you?" No, my mom just says, "That's not what were talking about."

I know, stupid things to argue about, but hey, I don't get along with her at all, because everything always has to be about her and how tough her life is. Like no one else has ever had a tough life. I asked her once if a friend could stay for a couple of days, she was having a really tough time. My mom said no, because when she was this lady's age, no one ever helped her out. I don't understand what that had to do with anything.

I actually went to a psychiatrist for like ten visits because of my mom, but the lady didn't help. She kept saying talk to your mom about it, but trying to talk to her and getting her to give any is like trying to demolish a thick brick wall with your shoulder.

Sorry about all of the complaining, but I needed to get it out.

I understand Daisy.
If you need to vent, you go right ahead.
I actually have more to write back to you,
But my kids are being bad right now, so I need to give them baths and put them to bed...
I'll be back to finish it later...
Till then try to do something that relaxes you... I like watching my fish when I'm upset... go say hello to your Oscar...

Oh yeah, since my room is on the third floor, usually when it starts turning 50 at night, it's like 70 something in my room, so I get used to it really quick. I don't put my air conditioner in until my thermostat goes past the highest mark, which is 90, and stays there for a while when it starts cooling down. The high outside today was like 70 or something and it's at least 82 in my room. That's now, at almost 8 at night. I don't think you would like my room. :D

Check your PM

Your room is probably so hot because the heat is rising to the top floor.

We don't really have a gradual temperature change here.
It pretty much goes from cold (30-50 LOL) to 80 or above practically overnight.
Then the really hot weather kicks in around mid May.
Thanks to the norths sub zero temperatures this past winter we got 1 day we had a tad bit of snow.
It was really great fun...

Tomorrow is tank cleaning day for me.
I'm hoping I'll get some good pictures.
Usually after I clean the tanks and rearrange things, the little guys
Come out of their territory and you can see them real good.
I'm going to try to get some good pictures of them for you to see.

It feels like it does it overnight here sometimes, but I know it doesn't. I'm glad you enjoyed the snow. I hate snow. I never call off work, so I always have to drive there in it. (24/7 hour facility, so you can even go in with a snow emergency. Yuck!)

Have fun cleaning your tank! :D I did that over the weekend. Pictures would be good. I'm really interested in seeing what they look like.

Got to go or be late for work.

I just got home and someone ate Oscar! :( The kenyi wasn't eaten, just laying there when I found him, but someone (or a couple someone's) actually ate my oscar. :( I loved my oscar. His eyes and his fins were gone. I guess no more oscars. I'm surprised they didn't go for all the littler ones first, went right for a big one. And of course I won't know which one did it because all of them but the plec's are carnivore's, I think. I think it might be one of the convicts, but again, not sure. When I had just the convicts and two small tanks, I had two dwarf frogs that were eaten (never found them) and one of the other convicts was eaten and a betta, because I heard putting one betta in with the fish would be okay, but they ate him anyway. He stayed in a little corner by himself and the one day I came down and he was gone. I was told it was because of the frogs, but the frogs were gone by then, too.

Do you think I should feed them twice a day instead of just once? I bought shrimp pellets for the raphael's because I didn't know where I'd be able to find live brine shrimp. I'm afraid they would over take the tank any way. Or crawl out and die and have a horrible smell. :eek: Do you think I would be OK with snails (I think they have one called a mystery snail?? ) and a turtle? I know someone who has a turtle in her tank and I am intigued by it. I already have reptile pellets, which are supposed to be OK for amphibians. I bought them for the frogs.

Guess what. The sky was blue today. All day. Not one drop of rain.

One of my favorite Romance authors, Cathy Maxwell, is in need of a title for her new book, so she put up a post for suggestions (not on this board). What do you think? (do you like romance novels?)

Loved by a Highlander <---
Is This Love? <---
Touched by Love
Touched By Desire
Hot Scot <---
Tempting Fate
Burning Need
Burning Desire
Burning Love
For the Love of a Scot <---
Ransom for Love
Surprising Love
Unexpected Love
Unexpected Desire

My personal favorites are the ones that have arrows. I'm a nut for historical romances, and I especially love the ones with scots or the highlands. Oh, I want to go to Scotland so bad. I like mysteries a lot too. The one I'm reading now is called Always Time to Die by Elizabeth Lowell. Actually, I just started it. On page six. Do you like to read? If you do, what do you like reading?

I'm sorry to hear that Daisy.
It could be the convicts, but it could also have been the Africans too.
They are mean fish.
The baby Oscar was probably just to young to defend himself.

Oscars (some of them) can be really mean as babies, but I only witnessed that once.

I also had a young red devil kill a young Oscar before...

Unfortunately it's a risk to take when mixing South, Central, and African Cichlids.
Sometimes they do all right together, and sometimes they don't.
I never had any luck keeping any of them together, but I know of a few people who have been successful at it.

The fish you have may kill snails, I've only kept snails in non aggressive tanks. So I don't know if they'd do OK or not.

I've never heard of a turtle that didn't need land?

I had a turtle once.
It was nasty.
I put it out at the pond thinking it would have a better life
And it ran away.
He probably died because besides the pond, there was no other water.
And he was a land/water turtle.

They carry a lot of germs and diseases humans can get too.
I didn't know that until mine had been long gone, but apparently
They carry some parasites and salmonella.

Today's tank cleaning isn't going so well.
Last time I cleaned my tanks, I left my Python outside on my deck.
When I went to get it today, I noticed my dog had chewed the hose up - so I couldn't use it.

So I decided to do the buckets.
Well, I walked out of the room to dump a bucket.
I had put the hose to the syphon back into the tank so that I didn't have to start it again.
Well, it fell out and about 25 gallons of dirty tank water poured onto my floor before I got back in there.
It's been a disaster... so far.
I need to buy another python hose attachment.

My top 3 would be:
Loved by a Highlander
Tempting Fate
For the Love of a Scot

I don't know if I have a favorite kind of book because I read a little of this and a little of that.

I absolutely loved The Notebook. The movie was great, but the book was fantastic.

Message in a Bottle was 100 times greater than the movie.

The Perfect Storm was better than the movie.

(I think they are by the same author, not sure, but I'd have to say those were my 3 favorite books)

I've read a lot of books written by psychotherapits (self help book) and books about dealing with depression.

Right now I'm reading Your Best Life Now by Joel Osteen for the second time. Kind of like a self help book but with religion in it.

I tried reading a self help depression book before but it just made me feel worse, so I stopped. Guess it was the wrong book.

I'll finish tomorrow. It's started lightening really bad just now.

:eek: I hate lightning.
Once when I was 19, I was talking on the phone to my husband (boyfriend at the time) during a
Thunder storm and lightning came through the phone line.
I wasn't seriously hurt (even though it hurt really bad) but it knocked me across the room.
Amazingly, my sister had just walked into the room and was asking me something, so I had the phone away from my ear.
My fingers got the worst of it - although it felt like my whole body had been zapped real good - probably was...

I'm a horrible photographer.
Every now and then, I'll get a really good picture,
But this is the best I have gotten so far.
I'm still taking them, so hopefully I'll get some good ones.
Not all the fish are cooperating.
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I hope your day went better today. Those pictures are pretty good. I like the colors of the second one (the yellow one) the best.

I would have to ask that lady about her turtle. I have no idea what kind it is.

I actually have two depression self help books. It's been a long time since I've tried to read them (well, not that long, maybe three years at most). The one is Breaking the Patterns of Depression by Michael D Yapko. Came out in '97. It makes you analyze your life and other things and tries though help you find the good in yourself. (I was in a really bad spot at that point in my life.)
He has Learn By Doing sections in each chapter. I don't understand how all of them help you. One example is Learn By Doing #4:

Purpose: To help you consider the role of medication in your case by evaluating what is hype, misconception and good common sense in the opinion of others.

Many people still hold the naïve and outdated notion that to take a medication for depression is a personal weakness. Yet Prozac has caught on with people in ways no other drug ever has. Why do you think this is so? After you list your own reasons, ask at least a half a dozen other people for their perspective on Prozac– why it’s so popular, when they think its use is appropriate, and when they think it is inappropriate. What do you find out?

The chapter is supposed to be about taking action to help yourself feel better, but I don’t understand how learning about Prozac is supposed to make you feel better about yourself. I tried to do this and everyone was like, "Are you taking Prozac or thinking about it?" No one wanted to answer the question. I guess this book would help a lot of people, but it didn’t work for me.

I tried reading The Purpose Driven Life, but he repeated himself in every chapter. I remember I felt like he was trying to brain wash whoever was reading the book. Did that a couple years ago too.

I’m sorry to hear about the lightening striking you when you were younger. The charge was most likely going through your whole body. I have heard of people who get hit directly and their whole body swells up. I personally love lightening and thunder storms. They calm me down. I used to always feel like some of my anger was coming out in them. Now they just relax me.

The book that was talking about Prozac, in my opinion, was trying to persuade you to take the medication... and if not that one, some drug for depression.
I guess I was reading more along the lines of positive thinking books.
I stay away from antidepressants and mood stabilizers now and I truly feel better than I ever have by going all natural.
Joel osteen book is really good.
I've noticed that he repeats himself a bit, but I don't mind it because what he's saying is really good - plus I've forgotten by that time and I look at it as a reminder.
Reading that book has given me a better outlook on life.
I checked it out from the library before I decided to buy it.

It drives me nuts when an author repeats him or herself. That's why I can't read that type of book. I feel like yelling, "You said that already, go to the next subject!"

How is Sparkle doing?

She's doing really good.
We can separate our house in half by closing doors.
We've been keeping her in one half and keeping our other animals in the other half - both sides have a door leading outside.
She keeps hanging around the door trying to sneak out.
I don't know why she wants outside so bad.
This morning I had to put her in my bathroom so she couldn't run out with all the morning commotion that goes on her - she meowed the whole time and didn't want to be in there.

Other than that, she's great...
We're just waiting. This should be the week.

I think she probably wants out so she can find a place to have her babies. If she was outside for a couple of months she would instinctively look for a place in the woods that she could hide to have her babies. She would have learned what wild animals have to do to survive, and that is one thing.

Have fun keeping her in. :D In my experience, when a cat is determined to get out, they will try their hardest. They learn to hide in a corner near the door where you can't see them and go flying out just when you close it.

They learn to hide in a corner near the door where you can't see them and go flying out just when you close it.

LOL!
That's exactly what she's doing!
We've been having to crack the door, wait a moment (she pops out of hiding), close the door, chase her away, then run out the door as quick as we can before she has a chance to escape.
I guess maybe that's what's she's doing.
I think she spent her whole life outside before now.
She won't get in the box I made her.
And when I put her in it, she tries to resist going in, and then hops right back out.
She hasn't been nesting like she was before (or like I would think she should be).
Maybe she wasn't nesting before, she may have just been exploring.

We have cats that never were outside and they try to jump out at unexpected moments. Cats that were out before are doubly hard to keep in. I know you said she doesn't like being locked in a room, but it wouldn't hurt to leave her locked in a room while you are gone, just in case. Then you know where she is, and you won't have to search the whole house looking for her.

If you know of a favorite place of her's, like in the corner of the second bedroom on the second floor, or whatever, you could just put a towel there and move her into the box when she starts having kittens. She may not even keep them in the box. One of ours used to drag them out and under the sofa, so I bought one cage to keep them in. This was right when we moved into our house, so it's been about 3-4 years.

Also, all our cats started having the kittens betweem 10:00 pm and 1:00 am, so if you get up one day and she doesn't look quite as fat, you may want to start looking. I found this web page that's a pretty good read. My sister just got a kitten that is 6 weeks old, so I sent it to her. It gives some pretty good facts you should go by for young kittens, and some are just good for cats in general.

How to Care for Your Kitten (http://www.paw-rescue.org/CATS/kitten_care.html)

Thanks for the link.

You're right. I need to be putting her in a room when were not at home just in case she has them... and I guess at night too.
Especially now since it's getting so close.

Sparkles stomach has been tightening up and releasing every now and then for 2 days.
I thought she was going into labor, but I guess not.
Did any of your cats do that?
It's like it will tighten up and you can feel the impressions of the muscles? Or maybe the babies?
Everything gets real tight, but it goes away and then nothing...
Is that normal in your experience?
I can't find anything online about this.
I called her vet yesterday and today and NO ONE called me back - I think they think I'm a pain in the azz
Because I've had to call them several times recently about some issues with one of my dogs...
And I called them about her twitching thing and they told me (with an attitude) that she probably had an itch...
The woman told me that I was a paranoid mommy... I guess that was a hint not to call them so much...

I don't think I ever felt my cats stomach when they were close to giving birth, so I don't know. I found an emergency number in Wisconsin and called and asked them and they said you should probably take her back to the vet tomorrow, it sounds like she's in labor. She shouldn't have contractions for more than two or three hours (+/- some time) before they start coming out. I can ask my parents, too, if you want, but I won't be able to reply until tomorrow morning or afternoon (depends on when I see them.)

I think your vet needs an attitude adjustment. They should be answering your questions, not acting smart and giving attitude. It's only right that you would want to find out if she's having a problem. Not to be rude, but I would be finding another vet.That's why I take my cats to a vet a half hour away instead of the vet that's five minutes away. I called the one close to me once and asked them a question, a couple days after I had been there, and they were rude, and that was it. I refuse to go there again, unless it's a true emergency. They even made me make another appointment before they would answer my question. The one farther away just answered it, no questions asked.

Let me know if you want me to ask my parents.

She had her kittens this morning.
Everything went well.

That's great. :D I'm so glad everything went good. How many are there? :confused: How cute are they?

Oh goodness...
I was in such a hurry I forgot to tell you 3 adorable kitties.
2 black and white and 1 black.
They are tiny too.
They seem to be doing real good.

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They are so cute!!

I have a question. I went to walmart last night to get some ice packs for my knees (chiropractor suggested), and stopped in at the fish tanks. In the africans tank, they had some that were all orange. No other color, no stripes, just orange. Kind of made me think of a goldfish, but even more orange than that. Do you have any clue as to what they were? Alas, no pictures to show you. I was wondering. I kind of liked them, and thought maybe I could write it down for the future. They also had another one of the blue ones that I have, but my fish are at least twice as big, so I wasn't sure if it would be a good idea to get one. So I didn't. Although I would like another one. Guess it wouldn't be a good idea unless I got another big tank. :) Not going to happen anytime soon.
Oh, and undergravel filters? Any thoughts on them? I don't know anything about them, was looking at prices and such when I got my tank, but forgot about it and thought about it yesterday.

Thanks

Daisy :D

Did they look like these?
The older they get, the more orange they get.
Also females are not as bright orange as the males.
They are Red Zebras...
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They sort of look like those, but I thought that the mouths didn't stick out as much. Don't know really how to describe it except their faces were flatter and rounder. The color looks right on, though, so maybe. Maybe I could see if I could get a picture. Sneak in with my digital my dad gave me and snap one quick. :D It would be easier to compare, then.

They do look like how you described.
These pics really do their heads no justice.

It would be cool if you could snap a pic or 2 of them.
The only orange Africans that I know of are the red zebras.

There's another orange cichlid called the red devil, but they are not Africans, they are central American.
They look quite similar when they are young.

I'll be leaving tomorrow, I'm not real sure if I'll have internet service or not.
If I don't, I'll be back online Tuesday or Wednesday.

Oh the under gravel filter, I forgot... sorry.

I don't use them personally because the dirt gets sucked under the
Gravel and under the filter itself and builds up under there.
Because the dirt cannot be removed out of the water by replacing
Filter cartridges, the water always has suet in it causing it to always have a bit of a cloud to it.
I like being able to remove the dirty cartridges.

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This is the best that came out. That camera isn't very good. But I looked at the face closer this time at the store and they do look exactly like the ones that you said they were. Thanks. I like the bright colors. That's one of the reasons I bought the bumblebees and the yellow one. Definitely going to start a list for future fish to get.

They are among my favorites too.
I love the bright colors...

You did good snapping some pics in Walmart!
Go Daisy!

The kittens are so cute!! You know it's going to be hard to give them up when you find homes for them.

I think right now, while their young, a more appropriate name for those fish would be electric orange. :D

I know, I've fallen in love with them.
My favorite one is in the first picture (of the ones I just posted).
It's the only girl and she's the brave and curious one.

LOL you know what's funny about the fish is that they never turn red. LOL
They're electric orange... That should be their name...

LOL That is funny. Maybe the person who named them was color blind.

I bought a new decoration for my tank. I think my fish love it, because they are around it a lot and one of my raphaels is always in it. My other raphael is always in the fake driftwood. And my bumblebees are twice as big as when I bought them. They already killed half of my plants. I heard that they are okay with java fern and java moss, though, so I was thinking about trying those. Have you ever tried those in your tanks?

I have to fix the bubble stones in my tank... good thing this is the weekend I need to clean the tank.

It looks so good daisy! I love it! Looks real clean too!

I love java moss! The stuff is great!
It spreads and attaches to stuff. Almost undestroyable!
It doesn't root like regular plants, the fish can move it where ever and it doesn't die.
Just have to have good lighting (which you already bought) and a little fertilizer every now and then.
That would be a great choice for your tank!

I don't know about the fern, never had those.

The fish look great!
How many are in there?
You could probably add a red zebra if you wanted...

Thanks, I will definitely have to check out the moss, and research the fern.

There are ten total fish, including the two plecs and two raphaels. I would eventually like to get a tank just for the plecs and raphaels, since they are such peaceful fish (at least they are at the moment). When I put the food in for them, the others try to eat it and carry it around. I have no clue if the plecs and raphaels are even getting food. Although the plecs are bigger and the raphaels do look kind of fat. But I thought if I got a couple more kinds of plecs and raphaels, and put them in one tank, it would look pretty neat.

The only thing I was worried about if I got one of the red zebras is that they would get eaten real quick. They are half the size of the smallest fish I have, and the smallest fish (the kenyi) is about a quarter of the size of the biggest fish (the convict) I have.

I would definitely consider putting the peaceful fish in another tank before your rowdy gang grow up... LOL...
They're still babies yet and have not yet reached their full evilness LOL

Petsmart should have some bigger ones.
When and if you do decide to add another one, remember the trick is to
Take away the claimed territory.
Separate all the fish by taking them out and putting them in separate containers.
If you put them together in the same container they will kill each other.
I made that mistake once by putting 2 together in a 5 gallon bucket,
1 got pecked to death and it was only in there for 10 minutes...
So anyway, place them in separate containers and rearrange your tank (this is messing up the claimed territory).
Add the new fish first and let him settle in, then one by one place your other fish back inside the tank.
Let them get settled before you add the next.
Add the most aggressive fish last...
Then all the fish (including the new one) have to reestablish new territory
All at the same time.

Sounds too hard... LOL just kidding. If I can find appropriate containers to put them in, I will definitely go get one of the red zebras. I can see it now. Fourteen cats all running and trying to eat all of my fish from the containers AFTER they play with them, on the rug, for ten to twenty minutes. One of them did that to a betta I had a few years ago. That poor betta.

LOL!
You know what works really good...
1 gallon zip lock bags.
Fill half with water and leave half air, seal it except for a little corner,
Put the end of you air tube in the corner to blow up the bag with air, seal the rest of the way shut.
If the bag has any slack in it, twist the top until the bag becomes tight.
Then rap a rubber band around it so that it won't unravel, then stack them up in a bucket.
Works like a charm;)

Thanks. I never would have thought of that. I can see how it would work, without even doing it.

Have you ever heard of this? I sort of thought it was an interesting article. Only sort of because it's a little long for my attention span.

Aufwuchs (http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/aufwuchs.php)

Oh boy, oh boy. I went to the store to see how much the red zebra's were at petsmart. Let me just say, I have no self control. I didn't buy the red zebra's, oh no. I bought an AC something or another and one from the assorted cichlid tank. I thought about getting the zebra too, but had at least that much self control. I don't want to put too to many in the tank.

I was looking at the second one when I got home, and it looks kind of like the one my brother has called a blue johanni(?), but its not even close to the color of his or even ones I saw on the internet when he got his. They all had dark stripes, and had neon blue coloring. This one has a slight blue coloring, and dark stripes, but they really aren't that dark. Looks more black and white than black and blue. Sort of looks like the kenyi, except the stripes are going the opposite way. I'll have to see if I can get pictures of them. They are out and about, but they won't stop moving long enough to snap one. And I got some other type of plant to try. Can't remember what it is, though, probably something that they'll kill in two days. Oh well. They didn't have Java Moss. Java Ferns, they had, but I don't like the way they look.

Do all of the fish need to have some type of plant supplement or something in their diet? I stuck in like 10 algae wafers, I figured that at least two of them had to be left for the plecos, but no, they didn't leave any, they ate them all. GRRR. That frustrates me.

Oh yeah, I tried your suggestion for the fish. I could only catch three of them. That took me almost an hour. My dad sat there the whole time watching and laughing at me. Then the cats got into the container I put them in and started poking holes in the bags. Uhh. Next time I guess the container will have to go outside. I didn't think they would be able to get into it. Boy, was I wrong. Everyone's okay though.

I GOT PICTURES! WOOHOO! It wasn't easy, I'll tell you, and somehow in one of the pictures I got both of them. The new plant is in the background of one of the pictures too.

Have you ever heard of this? I sorta thought it was an interesting article. Only sorta because it's a little long for my attention span.

Aufwuchs (http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/aufwuchs.php)
I have heard this, but not in the same way.
I let the algae (all forms of it) grow in my tank on the big rocks and fake plants, but nothing else. My Africans seem to love it.

I feed them African cichlid attack and super soft spirulina made by HBH.
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The solid blue fish I think looks like a cobalt blue zebra. I have one of those (if they are the same fish)
He was my avatar for a long time. I believe there are some pics of him somewhere in here.
I have no idea what the one with stripes is. I don't think I've ever seen that before.
He's really gorgeous though.
I'd love to know what he is as well.

Sorry the bag thing didn't work out for you.
LOL, yeah, those buggers are quick and hard to catch.
I use a net the size for a full grown Oscar.LOL easier for me that way.

What do you think? Do they look the same, my fish and the blue johanni picture in this link?

Electric Blue Johanni - Tropical Fish Forums (http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=111862)

The second fish, his fins are yellow. I remember your picture, I found it today and showed it to someone, and she loved it. Anyway, I figured out how you spelled the name, but I have no clue how you pronounce it. It is in this link.

Species Profiles -- Cichlid-Forum (http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1460)

All of the fish seem to be doing okay. (Crossing my fingers and knocking on wood :D)

You truly have some great finds!!
I do believe your right about both fish.
As a matter of fact, after comparing pic's, I know you are!
I found this about the blue johanni (http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_johanni.php)
That's awesome daisy! I've never seen or heard of those fish.
I really think they are beautiful!

I'm really glad everyone's getting along.
That's really good news.

Thanks, I think their pretty neat looking, too. My brother says that his is the most aggressive one in the tank. I'll have to look for the fish food you suggested. I wrote it down and the paper is in my wallet. When I clean my tank, I only clean the gravel, and the hoods, although my tank is fairly new. I clean the filter like once a month. It doesn't look like there is algae growing in it yet. I would think there would be, though, since I have the plant lights on it. I think I read somewhere that you could stick a piece of zucchini squash in the tank and let it float for the cichlids that eat veggies too. I couldn't tell you where I saw it though.

Does your yellow fish have any black on it's fins?

does it look like this (http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/cichlid/electricyellow.php)

It has a black line on the top fin, but it is really light. The bottom fin doesn't have black on it, it looks more white, and it looks like there is an egg spot on it. I never looked that close before at the bottom fin.

The reason I asked is because the picture in post 198 doesn't look like he has a black line like the electric yellows. From what I can see of him it looked a lot like my male blue kenyi which is bright yellow.

Could be. They came from the same tank. Although it's been the same color since I bought him and that was a couple months ago. He's twice his size now then when I got him.

Lol, well they do change from blue to yellow while they are very small and as they grow they lose the black altogether.
It would be fun to watch to see if his black stripe fully disapears...
From the baby pic's, looks like there was a thick black stripe that's not there anymore... hum interesting.

I took another picture of him, and he doesn't look like he has that stripe in the picture either. I'll put it up another time, because the picture is on a different computer than I'm at right now.

hi

WOW! That looks just like my male blue kenyi!

It could be a female electric yellow, they have less black and no black bottom fins.
But from this pic, you can't see any black on the top one either..

It probably is a kenyi then. Someone at work told me that if it is and they have babies she wants some. She said she never had any and would love to have a different type of fish, but she's too cheap to buy some (her words not mine). :D

Someone gave me a 20 gal. long tank. Do you think the plecos would be okay in that for a while? I was planning on putting the tank in my room, and I want to make it some type of community tank. But, alas, I am clueless (sort of). What type of fish would you recommend, and would it need a heater? I was thinking of a few fan-tailed guppies. That is really the only things I can think of that I would need to know, since I only have experience with the fish I have, and that's really not much experience at that.

Hehe... I have a 20 gal long!!
I have 2 dojoe? Loaches, 5 neon tetra, 5 cardinal tetra, 2 male guppies, 3 female guppies, and 2 sunset platies.

I run a 10 gal heater and keep the water at 76.

I think the plecos would be fine in there for now while they're small.

Small tetras, guppies, platies, and mollies, are some colorful choices that would do real good in there.

I could only find the cichlid attack at petco, so I'll have to look at petsmart. They said they stopped getting the other one in recently. Do you still give them flakes with it or do you just give them the pellets to eat? I thought I put a lot in, and it says to feed them whatever they can eat within 3 min. Well, what I put in only took them about 30 seconds to devour.

Ooh, I was at petco, and they had some crabs. Little ones that get to like 2.5 inches. I was so tempted to get one. I was afraid he would crawl out of the tank, though, and die BEHIND it. EWW! That would be nasty. :D

I really like some of the colors on the male guppies. That's why I was thinking them, but I sort of like the black mollies, too.

I don't feed flakes once they are big enough to eat the pellets (to the cichlids anyway) so that their teeth stay healthy and grinded down.

I feed both the attack and the spirulina to the African cichlids at the same time, it's like eating meat and veggies - LOL. They love it! But that's the only 2 things I feed them.
I feed them a lot too. And a few times a day at that. I feel they need it
To grow and for good color, plus an unhungry African is less aggressive.

I've never kept a crab before, but they might surprise you.
I've heard that they are very good at catching the fish in their pinchers and eating them... but that's just something I've heard and don't know if it's true or even possible.

You can keep guppies and mollies together.
They get along with each other well.
They both have live babies too, no eggs.
It's pretty cool.

Akae why do you have a oscar in a salt water tank? Not good by any means
I'm surprised the poor thing is still alive. If your oscar is that large it should be in a tank no less than 50 g now.
Crazy, your tank should not be as full of algae as it is, you need to put in a better form of filtration in it. If you are wanting to breed these chiclids they should be in a 20 g or more tank. Supply them with plenty of hiding spaces. You should never have more than 1 pair of breeding parents in a tank of 10 - 20 g at one time. If you put in too many they will fight and kill each other. The female of the breed that you have are notorious for killing the males once they are finished with them so you have to keep an eye on them.

Clean the tank out once the babies have been transferred when they are old enough. Becareful not to transfer them to early because the babies eat off the slime on the parents bodies. Algae buildup like you are describing often happens as a result of overfeeding, over stocking and poor water filtration. One thing that you can put into your larger tank is a power head which allows for more water movement which areorates the water giving the fish and tank itself more oxygen. Do not put the tank too close to a heating element such as rad or near a window where the sun comes in constantly. I have been breeding and caring for chiclids for over 20 years so if you ever have a question, let me know. I also have salt water tanks and a sea horse tank

Hello all
I've been enjoying reading your posts here. I kept fish for a number of years when My wife, I and our girls were younger(considerably). It seems that the basics have changed a little but the common sense approach still holds true. When we kept fish I quickly learned to change out a quarter or so of the water once a month but never quite understood why it worked so well... Now I understand better... Thank you.

Reading your posts has made me consider putting up the extra deposit my apartment complex requires and starting a tank again.

I have to pass along an anecdote about killing a poor fish with kindness.

A number of years ago we started our first community tank on doctors orders. My doctor recommended it as therapy for my ulcer problem (I can watch a tank for about half an hour and relax so much that you almost have to pour me out of my easy chair). As part of this community tank my wife selected a fancy Black Moor Goldfish. It was introduced to the tank with no problems at all until a friend gave us a pretty little Beta Splendens which took a very aggressive stance with the Moor.

During the time leading up to the acquisition of these two fish I had been reading and decided, since we lived in a large drafty old house on the Oregon coast and had some problems with Ick and some other problems brought on by our accommodations, a small treatment tank was in order. I bought glass and silicon and built a tank that would hold one gallon of water to be used for treatment purposes. One gallon for ease in measuring proper dosages.

Meanwhile back in the main tank... The Beta had become more aggressive toward the poor Moor and had, in it's attacks removed a number of scales from the Moor's sides and the Moor seemed to be suffering. Well humanitarian that I was back then I decided to move the Moor to the treatment tank and add medications that the book I had recommended for the problem at hand. When the process was finished I placed a spare heater, which had already been tested and set to hold 78 to 80 degrees, I had in the small tank. We went to bed knowing that all had been done to make the Moor comfortable and start the healing process.

Next morning we woke up to find the poor Moor floating belly up in the small tank. It seems that I overlooked the fact that the sensor unit of the heater was not far enough into the water to shut off the element when the water reached the right temp. This happened over thirty years ago and I have yet to live down the fact that I cooked my better half's favorite fish.

Moral: If you're going to build a treatment tank make darn sure that the depth is sufficient to get the heater into it deep enough to operate properly.

AK I would like to know a little more about using the bacterium sponge set up. Do you set it up in a separate filter system without using all the other filter elements?

Would black moors be OK in the tank with the mollies and guppies? I would rather not even try the crabs because I was thinking that, too, that they would easily grab the other fish. I should look them up. If they would do good in ten gallons I could sometime set that up and put them in there. Since I have three of them now. The lady who gave me the 20 also gave me a 10 with all the works.

Nanajo,

AKaeTrue never said she put her oscar in saltwater. The only time she even mentioned saltwater was when I didn't explain my fish well enough and she thought they might be a different kind.


chaplain john,

Thanks for the story! :D You just helped me reaffirm that I won't ever make my own tank, because no matter how much thought I will put into it, I know something will go wrong. You have asked the right person for the information you are seeking. She has knowledge in a lot of things to do with fish and tanks.

akae why do you have a oscar in a salt water tank? Not good by any means
im surprised the poor thing is still alive. if your oscar is that large it should be in a tank no less than 50 g now.
crazy, your tank should not be as full of algae as it is, you need to put in a better form of filtration in it. if you are wanting to breed these chiclids they should be in a 20 g or more tank. supply them with plenty of hiding spaces. you should never have more than 1 pair of breeding parents in a tank of 10 - 20 g at one time. if you put in too many they will fight and kill each other. the female of the breed that you have are notorious for killing the males once they are finished with them so you have to keep an eye on them.

clean the tank out once the babies have been transfered when they are old enough. becareful not to transfer them to early because the babies eat off of the slime on the parents bodies. Algae buildup like you are describing often happens as a result of overfeeding, over stocking and poor water filtration. one thing that you can put into your larger tank is a power head which allows for more water movement which areorates the water giving the fish and tank itself more oxygen. Do not put the tank too close to a heating element such as rad or near a window where the sun comes in constantly. I have been breeding and caring for chiclids for over 20 years so if you ever have a question,, let me know. i also have salt water tanks and a sea horse tank
I have not discussed my marine tank in this thread.
Keeping my Oscar in a saltwater tank. Huh?
She's living the good life in a 250 gallon FRESH water tank and has NEVER been
In salt water or a tank smaller than 55 gal.

The only mention of anything "salt related" in this thread is the African Cichlid salts I use to replicate
A NATURAL African rift lake environment for my AFRICAN CICHLID aquarium. An Oscar is South American, NOT African, but I never said she was in that tank either.

Plus some of the info you gave about algae is misleading.
If an aquarium has a fully established nitrogen cycle, overfeeding and over stocking a tank without making partial water changes will cause a rise in nitrate levels which is the food source for algae thus causing algae to thrive and build up (however this was not the case here).
You cannot prevent algae growth with good filtration alone.
Keeping nitrate levels low by regular maintenance and water changes
Along with controlling the lighting and sunlight which enters the tank (which you did mention) is the best way to prevent and control algae.

In the original question posted, you can clearly read that this was not an algae build up. It was an algae bloom (green cloudy water) and it was quickly taken care of.

If you are going to post in an old thread, perhaps you should read
All of the posts so that you know what's going on.
So many things have changed since the original question was asked.

AK i would like to know a little more about using the bacterium sponge set up. Do you set it up in a separate filter system without using all the other filter elements?
Most filters are now being sold with this accessory.
Some brands come with bio-wheels and some with the sponges.
The sponges and wheels provide a home for all the beneficial bacteria within the nitrogen cycle that
Convert all the harmful toxins produced by fish waste into a non toxic form.

It's not necessary to set up a filter just for the sponges and wheels because they are designed to fit inside the filter along with the debris cartridge.
When doing regular filter maintenance, you'd replace the debris cartridge but the wheels and sponges are left alone.
This way all the good bacteria is never accidentally washed away.

You have to have a filter specifically designed for the wheels in order to use the wheels; however, if you already have a filter that is maybe older and did not come with the sponge or wheel set up, you can always buy a replacement sponge and add it to your filter.
It may not fit perfectly due to the filter not having a built in spot for it and it may require a little trimming, but it's still perfectly doable.

You can read about the nitrogen cycle and the different types of good bacteria that live in the sponges and wheels by clicking here (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/other-pets-animals/aquarium-cycle-nitrogen-cycle-77553.html).

And you can see pics of what the sponges and wheels look like by clicking here (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/other-pets-animals/new-another-cloudy-tank-76611.html) and scrolling down to post #5.

I hope this answers your question, if you would like to know anything else, I'll do my best...

Thank you for sharing your story too.

My daughter took this pic Daisy.
This was her favorite fish and he'd always come up to the glass to say hello to her (or beg for food LOL)
Notice my round belly orange and white goldfish, she has no eyes.
It was obviously born without them.
She was tiny and getting bumped around by the bigger fish in the same tank with her at petsmart. When I noticed her, I had to get her.
She's about 6 years old now and doing great. You'd never know she has no eye.
3802

That poor fish. I'm glad someone who will take good care of it got it.
I love those black moors, the way they look.
Ooh, I came down to turn the lights out last night and my bumblebees were fighting. They were going around in circles, around and around and around. The bigger one's black stripes went away, his whole body went yellow, and then his whole bady started turning black. They noticed me and just like that he was his normal colors and they were both looking out at me. Trying to tell me what perfect angels they are. Ha :D

WOW! I often wonder what mine do too when I'm not watching.
I guess they're getting older and want their territory...
Or could you possibly have a male and female?? hummm... LOL

The black moor could go into your 20 gallon with a couple of other smaller round belly goldfish. Pretty easy to care for and you don't need a heater.

Would they do that if they were different sexes? There are some differences in them, but from what I remember reading, you can't really tell the difference except when they are breeding. I think I actually wouldn't mind a male and female of those, since they aren't supposed to breed like the convicts.

I believe the dominant male will pick on both the males (for territory) and females (for mating)...

Sounds kind of odd to me... oh well. Such is life.

A couple of the fish always just watch the pellets go to the ground and don't try to eat them when I put them in. Am I doing something wrong? Or could it be that they just aren't used to them? Or maybe their too small yet?

Yeah, they do that when you switch their food on them.
They'll eat when they get hungry enough to try it.
Then they'll realize that they like it.

All of your fish appear to be big enough to make the switch to pellets.
You'll probably notice with the ones that are eating that they pick the pellets up in their mouths, chew on them, spit them out, chew on them some more...
It's actually good for them to chew. It keeps their sharp little teeth healthy.

I might not be on line for a while. My dad is getting a new service provider for cable and internet/phone because the company we have keeps jacking up the price. If the company comes for the cable tomorrow, they might have to cut out something or another, and it will shut down the internet. The internet provider we are getting can't come until the end of the month to set us up. The cable company said tomorrow or Tuesday, so that would leave me internet-less. (Is that a word?) Feel free to keep messaging me, though.

No problem.
See you when you get reconnected.

Gin-Soaked Raisins - Can Gin-Soaked Raisins Really Help Arthritis? (http://arthritis.about.com/od/alternativetreatments/f/raisinsgin.htm)

I got home and my dad said he just couldn't stand not having the internet for a week and a half, so he paid the guy extra to figure out a way to re-route so he could stay on-line.

I have my 20 set up, but it's so hot in my room, that the thermometer on the side of the tank is all the way up to the 86 degrees mark, which is the highest it goes.

I got my thermometer for the tank that goes to 110 and it went right to 88, right when I stuck it in. I don't suppose mollies and platys would be able to take the ten degree difference between summer and winter, would they? No, I didn't think so. :rolleyes:

Yep, you're right. That's way too hot.
Girl, I don't even know how you can stand that heat!
What happened to that window unit? LOL

The AC is in my bedroom. And half the time it's still in the mid-70's when it's on during the day. Not because it isn't working, oh no, it's because the heat gets so bad. When it's off it's like opening your car door when the windows are shut on a 90 degree day. I wanted to put the tank in the hall outside my bedroom. Good news is that the temp went down 4 degrees in the tank. The bad news is that it's 20 degrees cooler outside today than yesterday and the tank is still too hot. Someone told me to stick ice in it. "That'll cool it off." Yeah, for like five minutes.

My room is confusing because it's the whole third floor, so it's two rooms and a hallway. I always just call it my room, so when I say I put something in my room, people think my bedroom, and then when they see it somewhere else, they always say, "But I thought...." And then if you don't know that my room is the whole third floor, saying, "I put it in the hall in my room," would be just as confusing.

How are the kitties doing? My cousin wants a kitten but no one around here has one that I know of.

Oh, I see about the room now.

You know Daisy... I'm wanting to give away those kittens and a 55 gal/40 gal long double tank set up because I just have too much to take care of at the moment.
I'm currently out of town and have been since last Monday.
First I went to the wedding and spent the weekend with my family and immediately left out of town and won't be returning home for another two weeks.
It's really hard for my sister, who watches my other animals for me, to care of the tanks too. It's confusing enough for her to feed them right.
It's expected that I'll be traveling quite a bit during these summer months.

It's a shame we live so far away or I'd give them to you, and a kitten to your cousin.

Daisy sounds almost like you live in the Sacramento Valley but we haven't had that much bad heat yet this year (and I'm not looking forward to it either).
Sounds like you missed out on a great deal on a tank and a kitten... That's too bad but something will come along (always does, in my experience)

Well, I appreciate the thought, even though it won't happen. I'm sorry it's confusing for her, too. I can imagine what its like when you really don't know anything about the animals. (Hence this post! :D) How was the wedding?

It's been in the mid to low 90's all week so far, and the past weekend, except yesterday. Definitely not in California though. I think maybe the east coast and the west coast switched weather patterns. :D I don't remember it getting this hot until closer to mid-july.

Well I'm back and everyfishy and fur ball are just fine.

I am still taking the two I mentioned down though.

The wedding last week was great! Thanks for asking.

While I was gone, my sister said she saw a little bob tail kitten in my garage (it entered though the cat door).
She said it just watched her the first day she saw it, but the next day it was still in there but took off when she tried to pet it.
She said it kind-of hopped on it's back legs like a rabbit would and that it had a major eye infection.
She said it was about the size of my kittens too.
Have you ever heard of a cat that hops like a rabbit and has no tail?
Or do you think it could be a seriously injured baby.
Obviously it's a stray too.

I've only been home for a short while and haven't seen it, but I set some food out for it. Hopefully it will come back so I can help it... or at least try to.

I noticed, when my cats were kittens and they were just learning to run, that they did hop around like a rabbit. I thought it was the most hilarious thing I ever saw. They didn't understand that you were only supposed to use one foot at a time, not two. I wouldn't think there was really a problem unless it looked like it was favoring one of the legs. You can usually tell when it's favoring a leg. The only was you can really tell if something's wrong, though, is if you catch it.

There are cat breeds that are born without tails, but they are extremely expensive. At least I think they are expensive. They are not the kind that I would expect to see running around as a stray. Obviously, they aren't common. You would see them in cat shows, where you don't see your everyday common domestic cat. There is a picture of one and some info in the link.

Japanese Bobtail cat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Bobtail_%28cat%29)

There are other possibilities, such as, it's tail got stuck in something and it pulled to get out until its tail came off. It did have a long tail and have an owner at some point and the owner did something to it that the tail is now gone. But since it's a kitten, if it did have an owner, it probably would have come to your sister. Kittens are like kids, they are more forgiving of wrong-doings than adults are.

I, personally, would be most concerned with the eye infection. If not treated, it could lose it's sight, and the longer it has the infection, the more likely it will have trouble seeing when it is cured, if someone catches it and gets it to a vet. Just like a human.

Hope I helped you some.

Have you seen the kitten yet?

Hey there.
No, he/she never came back.

Thanks for the link.
My sister said it was solid gray.

Hi. I went to the aquarium today. I thought it was pretty good. For someone with little kids, it probably would be perfect-it took about an hour to an hour and a half to go through the whole thing. I personally would have liked something a little bigger, that took a little longer. I took some pictures too, although most of them aren't that great. I couldn't get a very good picture of the sharks. The one I like the best that I took is the jellyfish, even though you can see the exit sign.

One of these is a frogfish (the orangish-brownish one) and one is a batfish.

The one picture is of an electric eel. I love the other two fish-I'm guessing they're salt water because of the brightness. The lighter one kept going around the tank nonstop and was going pretty fast. The turtle and the stingray were HUGE! The sting ray had to be at least five feet from head to toe.

AWESOME!!
Love The Pics!

Beautiful pics Daisy. Thank you for posting them.
John

Thank you very much, both of you. :D