I've read most of the questions on this website about this matter, but I'm still confused. I pulled off the handle and wall plate. But what do I do after that?

I see a small (4 inch approx.) hole in the wall with a "unit" that looks like a cartridge that holds the handle. I can turn it to hot and cold, but that's about all I can move. What do I need to look for to clean out any possible garbage that may be stopping the hot water from reaching the shower? And yes, the faucet at the sink does produce very hot water!

If you can describe to me what I need to do - step by step, I would greatly appreciate your help!! I am REALLY tired of taking luke warm showers!!
THANKS!

Moen faucets have only one moving part. The stem slides up and down to open and close the faucet and rotates to regulate the flow of hot and cold water. Any leaking requires replacement of the cartridge.


First, turn off the water. To remove the cartridge, you'll need to remove the handle. This project can be like working a puzzle. If you have the manufacturer's instruction sheet for the faucet, you're ahead of the game. Without it, look for a retainer clip at the rear of the faucet just below the handle. Or, you may have to remove a set screw or snap-in "hot-cold" button and a handle pin or screw. On some faucets the swing spout must come off first. The retainer clip may be hiding beneath the handle inside a lift-out tube. Some cartridge faucets use two retainer clips–one by the handle and another by the cartridge. Retainer clips can be pried out with a screwdriver.


Once the retainer clip is removed, the cartridge simply pulls out. Use pliers, as shown in Fig. 6. Install the new cartridge by pushing it into place with the flat arrow, or other mark upward. If you use a lubricant on the cartridge, make sure it's silicone grease.

Check and clean the cartridge inlet ports. Before you button up the faucet turn the water back on for a minute to flush out the supplies.\Good luck, Tom

Ok, I've turned off the water. I've pulled off the handle and face plate that is against the wall. I see the cartridge with some type of clip that is on top of it. But I can't pull the clip out with my regular pliers. Do I need a special tool? I don't think I can pry it up with a screw driver. I don't see any other buttons or screws that I can remove. The unit did have a metal "sleeve" over it, which was easily removed. Now what??

Get a grip on the clip and pull hard. There's nothing securing it. If it comes out hard stick a small rod through the hole in the clip and tap it out. Nowc pull the cartridge out. Good luck, Tom

I sure hope you turned the house main off first.
Your problem sounds more like a scaldguard adjustment than a cartridge problem. Under the handle is 2 plastic parts that have gears on them. They are adjustable to limit the range motion of the handle. Basically, it stops the range of the handle from turning all the way over to hot. On the château the adjustment is on the metal sleeve. The gears are under the handle on the positemp.

Thanks everyone! Both showers now have HOT water!! Now to try to figure out why the pressure is lower than the cold water!! Could it be because of the extremely hard water ( no softner system - lots of lime, etc.) that we have here in central TX?? Is there anything that can be done to clear up some of the pipes -without paying major bills??

Make sure the water heater valve is completely open. Letmetellu is from Texas, he may be more familiar with your water.

Thanks everyone! Both showers now have HOT water!!! Now to try to figure out why the pressure is lower than the cold water!!! Could it be because of the extremely hard water ( no softner system - lots of lime, etc.) that we have here in central TX??? Is there anything that can be done to clear up some of the pipes -without paying major bills???

Can you tell me how you fixed exactly? Did you replace the catridge or simply adjust the scaldguard? I have a very similar problem that the same moen single handle shower faucet does not produce hot water. Thanks.

-yucong

Replace the cartridge if it is leaking.
There are 2 types of moen single handle faucets. The château which has been around a long time, and the positemp. The château turns on by pulling the handle straight out then turn right to cold or left to hot. The positemp simply turns from right to left to turn on and to get warmer. It has a cog type gear that is under the handle which limits the amount the handle will turn to have a code required scald guard. For best results, adjust hot to a point that is very uncomfortable but you can keep your hand under it.

Thanks Doug.

That faucet is a posi-temp valve and it is not leaking. So it is not the cartridge problem. It must be the scald guard you mentioned. I was able to retrieve the original installation instruction. It mentioned about temperature limit stops to adjust for hot/code water. Is the scald guard same as the temp limit stops?

-yucong


replace the cartridge if it is leaking.
there are 2 types of moen single handle faucets. the chateau which has been around a long time, and the positemp. the chateau turns on by pulling the handle straight out then turn right to cold or left to hot. the positemp simply turns from right to left to turn on and to get warmer. it has a cog type gear that is under the handle which limits the amount the handle will turn to have a code required scald gaurd. for best results, adjust hot to a point that is very uncomfortable but you can keep your hand under it.

Yes, it is.

I have the exact problem that is described in this thread. I have had 2 plumbers come and look at it and all they did is just change the cartridge, but that did not seem to help at all, rather worsened the issue. I am really getting frustrated at the moment as I am tired of taking luke warm showers.

The garden tub right next to the shower gets good hot water. From the instruction sheet from Moen (steps 3a-3c) explain about temperature settings. This is a 1222 cartridge for single handle faucet. Please help me if there is anything I can do to fix this i.e get more hot water in the shower?

Thanks in advance!

Raghu

Replace the cartridge if it is leaking.
There are 2 types of moen single handle faucets. The château which has been around a long time, and the positemp. The château turns on by pulling the handle straight out then turn right to cold or left to hot. The positemp simply turns from right to left to turn on and to get warmer. It has a cog type gear that is under the handle which limits the amount the handle will turn to have a code required scald guard. For best results, adjust hot to a point that is very uncomfortable but you can keep your hand under it.

Thank you Doug! I do have posi temp. But, my question is how to adjust the cartridge to get more hot water. Please pardon my ignorance. I am not that familiar with plumbing, but trying to do stuff on my own as the last 2 plumber visists have been expensive and not getting any results. So, I would like to try this on my own. I would appreciate if you can send me step by step directions to do so.

Take the handle off. There is a 2 piece white cog [gear assembly]. The outer piece is how to adjust the hot limit. The inner piece can only go in one way. Adjust the outer piece counter clockwise to get the handle to allow more roaming to the hot side.
The positemp simply turns from right to left to turn on and to get warmer. It has a cog type gear that is under the handle which limits the amount the handle will turn to have a code required scald guard. For best results, adjust hot to a point that is very uncomfortable but you can keep your hand under it.

Hi Doug,

Ok. Here is the issue. The plumber took out the temp. control (white cogin - gear assembly), but still made no difference.

Question: By adjusting the gear assembly, does it allow the know to rotate beyong 270 degrees (beyond 9'o clock position)?

What else could I try ?

johnsmom, were you able to remedy your situation?

rniyogiis there any valves or integral stops on your faucet? Does your faucet start with hot or cold when on? The cartridge may be reversed. Describe what happens when you turn the faucet on slightly, and then half, and then at 9:00. Do you have full flow?

[Hi Doug,

Here are the answers:

It didn't remedy the situation, the problem is still there.
Faucet start with clock with counter clockwise (270 degrees - fully hot)
At 6'0 clock position, it is off
At 3'0 clock position, it is cold
At 12'0 clock position, it is semi cold and warm
At 9'0 clock position, it is luke warm (which technically should be as hot as other faucets)

OK, let's brainstorm this thing. You have adequate hot water at the fixture next to it. You have removed the hot limit inhibitor. There are no valves in the hot line on the shower that are partially closed? You have full pressure and volume on the hot side?
These are the things that could cause lukewarm water on a hot line. Not saying any of these are the answer, but brainstorming. A leak on the hot water pipe. A t&p valve partially open. A faucet that is allowing a crossover and feeding cold water into a hot line. A prv [pressure regulating valve] that is on the hot side but no prv on the cold side [cold pressure higher than hot pressure]. A recirculating system that is allowing a crossover [it is supposed to have a check valve that does not allow it to go backwards]. Debris in the hot side that is restricting the flow of hot water. A valve that is partially closed.
Any of this sound familiar?

Yes, there is almost full pressure on the hot water side. Not sure about the valve partially being closed. The plumber says it could be valve too and suggested to change that, but want to get forum's opinion on this. Is it really going to help. Sombody said, drain the hot water heater once to remove sediments, but other faucets give good hot water.

If at all we have to change the valve, is it good to go with separate controls (one of hot and another for cold)?

If you have good hot water at other faucets then the problem must be at this faucet or the piping near this faucet.

I had the same problem: cold water was fine but no hot water from the Moen posi-temp valve. Followed the advice below and cleaned the cartridge that was plugged with gunk. Put everything back together but did not flush the pipes as long as I should have.

Now the cartridge is fine, but there is no flow from either the hot or cold water. I've concluded that the discharge chamber for the posi-temp which is below the cartridge is plugged. There is a small orifice connecting the cartridge chamber to the discharge chamber which makes access difficult (seems impossible). Any suggestions how to clean that discharge chamber to allow water to get to the tub spout and/or shower head?



Moen faucets have only one moving part. The stem slides up and down to open and close the faucet and rotates to regulate the flow of hot and cold water. Any leaking requires replacement of the cartridge.


First, turn off the water. To remove the cartridge, you'll need to remove the handle. This project can be like working a puzzle. If you have the manufacturer's instruction sheet for the faucet, you're ahead of the game. Without it, look for a retainer clip at the rear of the faucet just below the handle. Or, you may have to remove a set screw or snap-in "hot-cold" button and a handle pin or screw. On some faucets the swing spout must come off first. The retainer clip may be hiding beneath the handle inside a lift-out tube. Some cartridge faucets use two retainer clips–one by the handle and another by the cartridge. Retainer clips can be pried out with a screwdriver.


Once the retainer clip is removed, the cartridge simply pulls out. Use pliers, as shown in Fig. 6. Install the new cartridge by pushing it into place with the flat arrow, or other mark upward. If you use a lubricant on the cartridge, make sure it's silicone grease.

Check and clean the cartridge inlet ports. Before you button up the faucet turn the water back on for a minute to flush out the supplies.\Good luck, Tom

I had a service call at a home in seminole county in Florida with a similar problem. The actual port on the bottom was clogged. The water came from a well. He needed to filter the water when it left the well. I was unable to clear the port and had to replace the faucet.

I just completed a replacement of the Positemp 1222 cartridge in my guest bath. I just want to thank all the posts in this forum for getting me the information I needed. As thanks, I'm offering a couple of tips:

1. For new homeowners (under 5 years) Moen provides a warranty for this part. I called them up and they sent me a replacement for free. I live in North Dallas where water is hard. Also, this was a guest bath so it's not frequently used. Also, it is in a very cold part of the house so the temperature variations might have taken its toll on the rubber gaskets.

2. Silicone grease is awesome. Moen initially asked me to clean the cartidge and put it back in. But it was so hard putting the cartidge back in so I tried tapping it in using a mallet with a socket wrench as a guide so as not to chip the plastic cartidge. This was successful but a lot of effort. I had to pull the cartridge out again because I found out that it was leaking (after the tests). When I put the new replacement cartidge I drenched it with silicone grease on the outside (seals and gaskets) and dried up the hole where the cartridge went in. Viola! It went in so smoothly it's almost erotic. :)

3. Awesome tip for removing a stuck cartridge without paying for the metal extractor or using the plastic (flimsy) rotator. The instruction for removing the cartridge involves pulling the stem outward with a pair of pliers or vice grip. This often slips. What I thought of was to create "handle bars". I found an old metal bar (used to secure my flat screen tv) and drilled a hole large enough to accommodate the screw that fits into the stem. I put the screw back and added a large enough washer so the screw does not go through the hole under extreme pulling stress. I then sat on the tub. Braced my foot on the wall the pulled the cartridge straight out. Make sure to inch it out slowly but firmly so as not to cause any damage to other parts.

4. Here is the cartridge cleaning guide sent by Moen: PosiTemp Cartridge Cleaning Instructions.pdf. Query Google and it should come out.

Good luck!

I am so hoping you can help. I have followed these instructions and I am looking at a meeting of two pipes and a copper valve (this is under the handle - not under the water output). I do see a plastic "I" shape that has "hc" on the top. Is this the cartridge? I cannot get it out. Help? Thank you.

I am having a hard time getting the old cartridge out to does any one have any tips??

http://www.amazon.com/104421-Cartridge-Puller-Single-Cartridges/dp/B00083EC6C/ref=pd_cp_hi_1

Have you folks noticed this post started in 2007?

Before I unscrew the screws on the plate of the shower, should I turn the main water to the house off? Or is it OK to unscrew the screws when the knob is in the off position? Pardon my ignorance... have no clue when it comes to plumbing.

Why do you need to remove the plate?

If you need to remove the plate only you don't need to turn off the water, if you are reomoving the cartridge yes you need the water to be turned off. Thanks.

John

Thanks. I am still unable to pull out the knob. Mine is a château shower. There are two screws on the circular plate of the shower handle. How do I pull the knob out? The knob is stopping me from getting the circular plate out for me to see the inside of the cartridge or the scabald setting. Please advise.

My shower head is leaking hot water when its turned off I took it apart and did not find the problem need some help hear..

Ah ha. Or Eureka. Moen shower valve bodies can clog internally, and there is a simple fix!

All tests for flow should be performed with the shower head removed, as those are often clogged.

On the Moen Positemp Shower Valves you must first remove the cartridge. If replacing the cartridge does not improve the flow, you should first verify that you are getting plenty of flow to the valve body. Do this by leaving the cartridge out, stand back, and have someone slowly open the water main until you can verify that there is plenty of flow to the valve body. (Using cell phones makes communication easy) (You can use a towel or rag a few inches from the opening at the valve, as a water deflector to help you stay dry

If there is plenty of flow to the valve and if the cartridge is new, the only thing left is internal clogging of the valve body itself. This can occur over time with sediment accumulating in the tiny orifice connecting the inner diameter of the valve body to the valve outlet to the shower head.

Using a light you can examine the inner surfaces of the valve body while the cartridge is removed. Once you see or feel the roughly 3/16" HOLE in the internal diameter of the brass valve body this opening, and the passage from it is the likely suspect. This 3/16" opening connects internally to the valve outlet to the shower head itself . The best cleaning tool I have found for the job is a 4" or longer piece of a plastic tie wrap smaller than 3"16 in width. Bend a radius in the end of the tie wrap and insert it into the small hole of orifice in the inside of the valve body. You should be able to slide it inward about 1 1/2" or more. The direction you want the tie wrap to travel is toward the rear or back of the valve body. Work it in and out 3-4 times and your obstruction should be cleared. Reinstall your cartridge, and the clip, and turn on your water main. You should have much improved flow. After rinsing the shower head line for a minute, you can then reinstall the shower head.

Bingo, hopefully you just saved yourself a $500 plumber's bill.

( If you can't insert the tie wrap and get about 1 1/2" of insertion then you may have a blockage which may not be removable)
(Tie wraps have small ribs or notches in them. When you bend the tie wrap to cause it to enter the 3/16" opening and get the desired 1 1/2"insertion - sometimes the tie wrap will be difficult to remove. This can be due to the ribs of the tie wrap catching on the 3/16" opening. You can slide you index finger inside the valve body and while pushing in on the tie wrap where it enters the 3/16" orifice - and pulling out on the tie wrap at the same time - it should come on out)

To all you fine people who replaced the entire valves - sorry about that as it really was not necessary! Good luck to all the rest!

Here is an add on to my previous post...

It occurred to me that I have had Moen shower valve to Stop Flowing Almost Completely, even after the cartridge and the shower head were replaced. If the trick mentioned in the prior post does not open the flow, there is a next step you can take if your are a fairly well skilled handy person. The problem here is a very badly clogged valve body that is not serviceable - or at least that's what Moen thinks. So if you can't clear the output with the flexible piece of tie wrap material as described in the prior post, here goes...

Before you go further, be certain that this is your problem: Remove the shower head. Twist the elbow so that it points upward. Using a funnel, see if you can pour a glass full of water into that elbow and see if it flows nicely out of the front of the valve body (where the cartridge is removed). If the water backs up in the elbow, you have a clogged valve body, for sure. Since your water may be off at this point, you can dip a cup into the back of any toilet tank as a water source)

At this point you have identified that you have 2 choices - 1) replace the complete shower valve or 2) perform the following procedure. For most skilled do-it-yourselfers the complete valve replacement is a good half day job, plus the cost of the new valve maybe $150, and you end up with a hole in the wall behind your shower. With my alternative procedure, you should be able to complete it in an hour or so, and the cost of the supplies (except tools) should be under $5.

Tools/material needed:
Drill, 1/8 bit, 7/32 bit, teflon tape, 1/4 20 tao, crescent wrench, 1/4 20 set screw or plug (brass), coat hanger, small compressor, blow gun attachment

You will notice the round hole in the bottom center of the valve body. This is the outlet to the shower head. Directly below this hole, and just below the round opening to the valve body, you will see a small squared off area on the outside of the valve body. This squared off section is the passage way or port for the water output to the shower head. The flat front face of this channel measures about 1//2" square, and if you feel the sides of it, you can tell that it extends to the back of the valve body maybe about 1 1/4" or so.

To clear this channel you can drill into the front face of the brass valve casting body with a quality 7/32" steel bit. (You can make a pilot hole using a smaller bit first if you like) Next use a 1/4 20 male tap and tap threads into the opening you just created. Using a coat hanger or similar wire, you can thoroughly clean out or dislodge any deposits inside the channel.

Next using compressed air from a compressor and a hand triggered blow off gunt, hold your index finger over the round outlet hole inside the main valve body opening, while at the same time forcing compressed air into the new tapped hold you just created. This air should dislodge any deposits and any water which remain, and they will forcefully exit above at the elbow at the shower head.

Using a good coating of teflon tape install a 1/4 20 allen screw into the tapped hole, just 3-4 turns or until it's snug. You can also use a 1/4 20 brass plug if you can find one. To avoid corrosion on the plug or allen screw it's best to use one made of brass or stainless if you can find one.

Reinsert your cartridge, install the cartridge clip and the plastic knob. Install your shower head. Turn your water on, and bingo - you should have more water than you have seen from this shower in years!! If it works for you , you just saved probably $500 you would have had to pay a plumber!

Hello Etbrown4,

No comments from me, the only thing I would say to you that welcome to the plumbing portion of this web site and keep up the good job some one may learn a lot from you, but don't forget there are a lot of very expert gentlemen in this site, Thanks.

John

John

One of the plumbers here at work said that sometimes when you change out the cartridge a bit of the old rubber gasket gets stuck in water delivery. You'll need a flashlight to check.

Don't worry you can tell if any of the seal rubber is missing. Simply examine the old cartridge after removing it and see if any of the black rubber is missing from the two rectangular seals. If the seals are intact then you are all set.

Regardless if the seal is missing or not it is a good practice to flush out the faucet when the cartridge is removed, Thanks.

John

First, thanks for all the postings, which helped me greatly. In return, I wanted to pass along these links that I found helpful.

1) In case you are wondering what is behind the wall, and are not a plumber, this is what the positemp connection looks like. The plastic white part in the front is the head of the cartridge that pulls out. The cartridge needed to be replaced to solve my issue, no hot water coming out. (This is just for visual effect, don't buy this part.)
http://www.lowes.com/pd_158464-866-2520_0__?newSearch=true&catalogId=10051&productId=3014569&UserSearch=positemp&Ntt=positemp&N=0&langId=-1&storeId=10151

2) This Danco Cartridge Puller For Moen was a lifesaver. I could not get the cartridge out and this thing worked brilliantly! If you have to remove the cartridge, I highly recommend it.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_37742-1366-60132_0__?productId=1085199&Ntt=moen+cartridge&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dmoen%2Bcartridge

3) Check the Moen support site for more instructions. Their support group actually sent me a replacement cartridge free of charge.
http://www.moen.com/consumer-support/contact-us

Hope this information is helpful.

I took the cartridge out and had to pull it apart to take out a piece of copper debris that was preventing it from opening properly. 20 minutes to disassemble, diagnose and reassemble.