I have a girlfriend who has seriously co-dependent children, 11 and 22. The 22-year-old still lives at home and has gotten involved in our arguments when he has overheard them, and they did not even concern him. We were on the phone at the time and whether she told him or he was sitting there I do not know.

The 11-year-old still sleeps with momma and even takes baths with momma. We can't even have any alone time due to her. Even when we are trying to have an important conversation, she has to be in the middle of it. I truly want a future with this woman - but these children are putting more strain on our relationship than is healthy.

Baths still at 11? I quit when I was 5. Sleeping with momma still? Maybe right after a nightmare. But ALL the time? I can't remember continuous times. I know I had my own bedroom suite when I was 5 and didn't ever sleep in the same bed after that. I don't think before that I did.

I don't know how long you have been dating this woman, but I think you really need to re-think the relationship. The problem isn't the kids... it's their mother! She allows the 11 year old to sleep with her. She bathes with the 11 year old. She allows the 22 year old to remain at home and to get involved in your arguments. Let's face it... your child raising techniques/beliefs are miles apart. You need to open up the communication between the two of you to see if she feels any of these things are an issue for HER. If not, then I would suggest you move on... this gal is NOT what you believe her to be.

Hugs, Didi

Run from this woman if she can not accept and admit this is wrong. You will never have a place there.

I would have issues at 5 still taking a bath with mom or dad.
Yes it sounds like a very unhealthy relationship.

Um... I have to disagree with both the previous answers here.

The problem is NOT the mother OR the children. If YOU are unhappy with the way she chooses to raise HER children, you should not be in the relationship.

The 22 year old, yes should get out on her own, but that is not for me or you to decide. SHE is their mother. YOU are the boyfriend. You are not their father and you are not her husband.

And personally, this is only my opinion, I see NOTHING wrong with the 11 year old sleeping with mom. MANY families choose to co sleep, and how long they choose to do so is up to THEM. Not ANYONE else.

How long have you been with this woman? Does the 11 year old have emotional or developmental issues you may not be aware of? Many people look at my 8 year old daughter and think she is a perfectly typical 8 year old (unless she speaks to them) except that she cannot bathe her self yet, nor is she fully potty trained, nor is she fully able to dress herself or perform basic self help tasks like brushing hair and teeth.

I don't know this woman. And I don't know how long you have known her and her children. But obviously, if you have a problem with the way she chooses to raise her children, this is NOT the woman for you, and you should probably break it off with her.

No Jennie no developemental issues. This is definitively a co-dependent relationship. She functions fine. I believe part of your acceptance is based on the idea that you have a child that does have special needs. Really? A twelve year showering and bathing with mom? She has turned 12 after original posting. Unless there is a reason for sleeping with mom and dad - in the state of Va - don't know about here - any child over 8 (don't quote on age) HAS to have their own bed. Maybe Va understands sexuality a little better than these hillbillies.
We have been together 6 months and SHE want to get married. So with that being said there is more to BOYFRIEND than that. When 2 people are in relationship of that level there are mutual factors that need be decided -especially if she wants to take it to that level. I have a problem with co-dependency not her raising - they are very respectful and help around the house etc... Read - comprehend - comment. Don't jump to conclusions.

Please cite that information Politicalincrct. To the best of my knowledge there are NO laws in the US about bed sharing of ANY age.

And excuse me, but I would appreciate more respect than the rude reply you just gave me. I did NOT jump to conclusions, and I read your question just fine.

And my opinion still stands. You do NOT belong with this woman and her children.

Don't really care what you think. Your capital letters consistently show YOUR rudeness. State of Maryland adoption guidelines. No more than 2 children in a 12x12 rowhouse bedroom, and each room must have a window. (which basically means that you cannot house adopted children in the middle room in a Baltimore row home. Over 10 no mixed genders. And if it's not a subsidized adoption, once the papers are signed social services is no longer involved. Once the papers were signed, and I was too big for the crib, I shared a room with my 16 year old brother. My adult brother got the middle room. Just after the older brother moved out, I had my own room for 6 weeks, until mom adopted another little girl.
However if you are not involved with social services, there really is not law about who sleeps where. My brothers two son and daughter slept in bunk beds until Middle school, when they converted the large bedroom into two small ones. And those rooms were so darn small, my walk in closet is bigger. So the age is 10 and in Maryland and about siblings. I was not 100% correct, but I am sure if I delve deeper I can find more. NOW - YOU do not need put input in as you were rude in the beginning.

That was a copy and paste from a forum jennie. Sorry if I seem a little frustrated with you - but allcaps words are derogatory and you apparently do not comprehend that SHE wants more. With that said a child sleeping in the same bed with a couple IS definitely an issue... what we going to get intimate with her in the bed too? An adult relationship requires adult time. Codependency is a disease. I asked how to cope with that - not your input on where YOU think I stand on her child rearing (which u were wayyyyy off-base) or where YOU felt I fit into the relationship. If you can't answer the question that is asked - don't input next time.

I hope you have a good night, and good luck with this relationship. I am not even going to bother to make you understand that if you are unhappy with the way she raises her children, you should leave the relationship.

I am sorry it is too difficult a concept to understand. Have a good night.

I'm thinking your girlfriend's two children were sucked into the vacuum created when their father was no longer available to her. Do you know anything about that situation? Were the two adults married or living together for a long time? How long has he been out of her life?

I'll have more to add and suggestions to make as we pick this apart.

Okay wondergirl - the situation is as follows for the father. He was in their life for 3 yrs after the youngest was born and has been a consistent part of her life. Not so much the other 2 - but they are not co-dependent. Or rephrase - appear to be. She slept with them the whole time so I have been told. Her and another man were together for 6.5 years after that - he made the girl sleep in another bed - but they still showered together. The other guy left and 7 months later I come in. And the girl literally is consistently no less than 5 steps behind her mom. I was/am codependent on my mom. I swear this is co-dependency at its worst. I dealt with mine. But they do not seem to realize this is unhealthy. The girl is a mini-me and it is going to prevent her from building healthy relationships with her peers. She insists on being home-schooled so she can stay home with mom. Which, of course, ta-da.

I know I'm jumping in here a little late, but your question is, "how do I deal with co-dependent kids", should probably be, 'how do I deal with this co-dependent family'.

The mother is as dependent upon her children, as they are to her. That has been long established, and lucky for you, you are aware of their relationships with each other now, and not after.

Jenny has a point. How the mother raises her children, is what it is. What the mother chooses to do, however inappropriate to most of us, is her call.

The bigger question, is can you live with this, and what are your expectations.

The situation may not change for years, and if this mother is willing and able to adapt her parenting to more reasonable standards, it will be a difficult change to make for all.

Are the two of you discussing these problems with the 11 year old, and is the mother seeing how inappropriate it is to sleep and shower with her daughter at this age?

I think that it may be you that has to adapt to how she raises her children, and by the sound of things, I don't think you would be too comfortable.

Another point I want to make is, if this were reversed. Say that this is a single man raising his children, and he is sleeping with and showering with his 11 year old daughter. I think we would all agree without any hesitation, it is completely wrong.

The children are only the result of this mother's parenting, not the cause of it.

In my opinion, she is harming the 11 year old by thwarting her development. Just my opinion, and due consideration to special needs.

I am wondering if couples counselling, just the two of you, would help. It would be a healthy way to get the concerns out on the table, and see if there can't be some compromises.

But, until that happens, I would presume that nothing will change significantly enough, that you would be comfortable in that situation.

I know I wouldn't be.

I see Fear. What is the mother afraid of that she encourages this behavior? What fears drive the children?

Ok wondergirl, the father was there for a few years after she was born, she slept with them. They separated due to drug issues from what I gather. He has stayed a consistent part of her life somewhat from what I gather. I cannot say exactly how they relate. After that she developed another relationship with a man and he MADE her sleep in her own bed. He left back in march last year after 7.5 years to go find himself (copout). She was always no less than 7 steps from mom from what I gather. My biggest issue is that #1 the child is going to never develop a peer group bond. #2 never develop her own personality as she is a mini-mom. #3. I feel that the copout guy was actually tired of fighting this same situation. She wants to carry our relationship to the next level - but WE need to be able to have adult convesations and disputes without the child around. Heck, we couldn't even plan a proper vacation because she was not the center of attention. She is even home schooled so she doesn't have to be away from mommy when mom is off. I was/am codependent upon my mother but sought help. This is appears be text book at it's worst. I may be wrong.

Jake, thank you for pointing out what I neglected to. If the parental role was opposite sex it would definitely become inappropriate behavior. And with the onslaught of bi-sexuality today it makes me wonder how this girls sexual development will be affected. I do agree that it IS my comfort here not the families. There is a difference between how a child is raised and emotional health. That is what I have been trying to get across to Jennie - some people do not understand the damage co-dependency can cause. Parents and children become unable to develop healthy relationships outside the family and cease to function altogether sometimes. The family is important to me and I am trying to find a way to approach the counseling issue without becoming an enemy.

I was thinking particularly about the child, and I have to agree, that from what you have observed, along with your own experiences, it is more likely than not, this young girl is lacking in age-appropriate parenting. That will affect her overall development, as it has already most likely.

Who is to say that this child wouldn't prefer her own room (it worked once, right?), yet is unable to express needs and wants due to her age and maturity level. With her mother smothering her development, and needing this 'bond' with her daughter, maybe this little girl is unwilling to upset her as well.

I have known people who have home schooled their children. At the top of the priority list is social interaction as you've said, and fostering independence through social activities, in order to expand and develop outside of the home. I wonder what motivates this mother to home school- are her needs being met here, or are the child's.

As to bringing up counselling. It is one of those things that just has to be said, straight up. There are huge brick walls separating you from your girlfriend, and they need to be knocked down. I don't know that her not seeing that, indicates she is ready to even consider changes, to accommodate you. At what point will she change- after you move in? I would think the bare minimum would be establishing bed time routines, and who sleeps in who's bed, ahead of time. You do not need to be put in a compromising position as you know.

You are not a monster for expecting reasonable changes. You can state what your expectations are, what your boundaries are, what you are comfortable with, not comfortable with, etc. and then the negotiating begins. Her list may be the opposite, but, if the two of you work toward common goals that have been established, anything is possible.

Counselling is not easy, on either side of the desk. When relationships, no matter between whom, become strained, harmful, negative, unforgiving or stalled, little change will take place. You may not be able to really know whether the relationship will work or not, until you have gone to counselling. In my opinion, I can't see changes without her participation.

I think its worth a shot. For all you know, this might be the key in changing lives for the better. For all of you.

Thank you Jake. Your answer is very pointed and I agree. I really want this to work for us - the relationship thus far has been very mutually beneficial and is worth fighting for. I feel as if I am in for a long-term healing process and know from personal experience that this may get worse before it gets better.

Wondergirl - I think for the mother - it may be the idea that she KNOWS the kids put her ahead of everyone else. The husband left her for drugs... and the last guy left "to go find himself" which loosely translates into another woman or something like that. The youngest is really the only issue as the son I understand and I believe we reached an "understanding". The youngest is latching on like a leech and I just can't get beyond it. I wonder if for some reason she has abandonment issues. That's the only reason that I can think of that she would not let her mom out of her sight. Don't know. Love the girl to death - but mom needs mom time too.

So the fear for the mom is that, if the kids aren't latched onto her, she's nobody, worthless.

The fear for the daughter is similar--if she's not constantly in Mom's shadow, she's nobody, worthless. Mom gives her identity.

In child development, there's a phase called Separation-Individuation. An example is the two-year-old who refuses to allow Mommy to help her get dressed and shouts, "Me do!" The child continues on its journey to become a person apart from Mother.

Margaret Mahler and the Separation-Individuation Theory (http://www.childdevelopmentmedia.com/margaret-mahler-and-the-separation-individuation-theory.html)

This phase has never been completed successfully in your girlfriend's situation.

Sounds that way wondergirl. But I could also be misinterpreting things. But at this point I must agree with you.

I think you can only deal with what is in front of you.

For all we know, this child developed the behaviour after the last boyfriend left. That she is 11, with all the other factors discussed, the development of this little girl could still be a matter of change to what was.

And, unless this woman has, herself, some need to nurture this behaviour, rather than to put up with it to keep the peace, she could be thinking this is a 'phase'. I find it would be difficult to consider that the mother doesn't realize that she's doing more harm than good, by allowing the behaviour. Regardless of her own needs.

And, it all really boils down to who's needs are being met. We don't know why the little girl insists on being joined at the hip to the mother, and we don't know why the mother allows it- but does she encourage it? Or is it a matter of giving in, and not being able/willing/skilled enough, to straighten their relationship out.

But, I don't hear you saying that the mother feels the need, or expresses a need, to change. If she does, I've missed it. Does the grown son talk to you about this? Do you have any historical information as to when it started, and has he talked to his mother about it? How does he see things, and what are his plans- college, working, getting his own place.

If you are dealing with a situation (that I think you see accurately), that has potential to change, nothing will happen unless you push the envelope a bit. This is your life too. What if she tells you she sees nothing wrong, and expects you to just accept things the way they are. Can you?

I would be careful not to jump to any conclusions without first getting into couples counselling to address the issues that need to be addressed. And to do that, she needs to be willing.

I have the feeling that there is much more to this.