We currently have a pressure tank that the output line then feeds a series of filters -- first goes to a 30 micron whole house filter, then water softener, then 15 micron filter, then UV light and then to the rest of the house. We have an odor in the water, so I replaced the 15 micron filter with a carbon (0.05 micron) filter. This got rid of the odor however, because of density of the filter, the water pressure dropped significantly during showering or if you were running the sink and someone else in the house flushed a toilet.

Is it possible to add a second pressure tank after the UV light (the last step in filtering the water) so that we can have the carbon filter and water pressure?

Here's a YouTube link of the setup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVZD1xk0pyY
jVZD1xk0pyY

Are we talking about a galvanized pressure tank or a blue bladder tank? Back to you, Tom

It's a bladder tank on the video.

You could do it, but I'm not sure you'd be satisfied. For a very few minutes in the shower, the pressure would be better. But that would not last long, and then you would have what you have now. That's because what you really have is a volume problem. The carbon filter will only allow a set volume of water to pass through at the pressure you are using. You notice it as low pressure, but it's really, as I said, a volume problem.

Have you considered adding a second carbon filter? You would come off a T in the line. One branch would go to one filter, and the second to the other. You would then tie the outputs back together. That might solve your volume problem by cutting in half the amount of water expected to go to each filter.

You might also want to raise the cutin/cutout points of the pump. The one thing I did not see in your video was a pressure gauge, but I might have missed it. If you don't have one, you really should get one at some point. In the meantime, use a tire gauge on the airvalve on your tank to see what the pressure is once the pump turns off. Get back to us with that.

I can see it working with a 80 gallon galvanized pressure tank.
As jlisenbe pointed out you would lose volume on a bladder tank . However with a 80 gallon pressure tank you would have both pressure and volume to work with. What's your pleasure? Tom

You might also want to raise the cutin/cutout points of the pump.
That can be done, but per the water softener it's at the max recommended pressure for the unit.


The one thing I did not see in your video was a pressure gauge, but I might have missed it. If you don't have one, you really should get one at some point. In the meantime, use a tire gauge on the airvalve on your tank to see what the pressure is once the pump turns off. Get back to us with that.
You're correct; no gauge but I can get back to you all on that.


Have you considered adding a second carbon filter? You would come off a T in the line. One branch would go to one filter, and the second to the other. You would then tie the outputs back together. That might solve your volume problem by cutting in half the amount of water expected to go to each filter.
That's not a bad idea - and much less expensive one that I will definitely give some consideration to.

Keep you posted! Thanks for your help.

SB, I don't see your thinking on the galvanized tank. Why would putting in an 80 gallon galvanized tank be better than a similar sized bladder tank?



RB, they also make larger carbon filters than what you are using. You might try going to a larger type of filter. More filter, more volume.

Why would putting in an 80 gallon galvanized tank be better than a similar sized bladder tank? I'm thinking volume. The OP needs pressure but doesn't want to run out of water. A 80 gallon pressure tank would handle that. But the biggie is the cost. A 80 gallon bladder tank would run you $2,077.00,
( Check them out yourself at HTTP://BladderTanks.US) while I can purchase a 80 gallon galvanized pressure tank for $204.00. NOW which one would you recommend he install? Regards, Tom

I think your best bet would be to install a larger filter housing with a larger filter, or put two smaller ones in parallel as jl suggested. Either of these will increase volume.

SB, in the future, remind me to never ask you to shop for a bladder tank.

WellMate WM-23 Well Pressure Tank 80 gal - FreshWaterSystems.com (http://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-295-wellmate-wm-23-well-pressure-tank-80-gal.aspx?affiliateid=10053utm_source=Shoppingcom&utm_medium=Feed&utm_campaign=Product&utm_term=WM-23)

But besides that, I would think you are basically suggesting the person put a large storage tank in their system. Their would be no air in the tank unless the owner added air from time to time, which is a pain. So it would amount to a simple storage tank that would depend upon the bladder tank for pressure. And since the filters would be between the two tanks, the pressure situation would not improve. How would putting a large tank in the line AFTER the filter improve the delivery of water to the house?

Now a bladder tank, with an air charge, would have its own pressure and not be dependent on the first tank. You have to view it as a an independent system receiving water from the final filter. An uncharged tank, it seems to me, would not bring any benefit.

So, to answer your question, I would rather spend 500 bucks for a pressure tank that might give me some benefit than spend 200 bucks for nothing. But I really don't think any tank is his answer. It would be like thinking that adding 2" pipe AFTER 1/2" pipe will somehow increase volume. It won't. The carbon filter is the restriction that has to be solved.

Just my view on it.



I should add that the video the guy supplied is a great idea.

Ahhh! You young plumbers tend to forget I was out in the field before bladder tanks, snap cutters and toilet flanges. What do you think we used before bladder tanks came out? A pressure tank will do the same thing as as bladder tank only three tines cheaper. If charging the tank is your only concern, for a small fee you can add a snifter valve to a pressure tank. So now, please tell me the advantage of paying three times as much for the same thing? And another thing. There are pressure tanks and bladder tanks why do you guys insist on calling as bladder tank a pressure tank. They aren't the same and it's downright coinfusding and misleading. Bottom line! You have two items that both perform the same function. One costs three times as much as the other. Which one would you recommend to your customer? Or would you even give them a choice? Your call! Have a great weekend. Tom

I wouldn't recommned either one to this guy. For a homeowner, adding a valve and having to buy the compressor to charge it periodically just doesn't make sense to me. But I do see your point about cost, and if a person really wants to go big (80 gallons), then it could make sense.

As always, a good discussion.

I might mention that I am neither young (58, though I'm still trying to figure out how that happened so soon) nor a plumber. I do have a little experience with wells and like to participate on this board. And having an exchange with Speedball is always a learning experience. Have a great Christmas.

having to buy the compressor to charge it periodically just doesn't make sense to me Again, I got to differ. The way to charge a pressure tank is to simply drain the system and turn it back on. And 58 is young to a 84 year old dude. It's always fun for me to get into these discussions with you guys. New ideas, new methods etc, is what keeps a guy sharp. You have yourself a Happy Holiday. Cheers, Tom

Well, I'm stuck on this site now. Anyplace I can go and be referred to as "young" is my kind of place!

My friend,
While you may not be a plumber to me you're a "plumbing expert" and your posts prove it. Plus the fact that you don't let me me roll over you in a discussion. I both like and respect that. You give good solid advice and I think the next named "plumbing expert" should be you. Regards, Tom

Okay... now that the holiday's are over (Happy New Year!), I've been doing some research on pricing on what everyone's recommended. I'd like to try adding the additional housing unit post UV filter first: 1) easier, 2) less cost. If that doesn't work, then I'll move forward with adding a second pressure/bladder tank (after more research on the differences :) ). Here's what I've found that seems like it'll do what I need: http://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-5997-floplus-20-bb-high-flow-system-1-inletoutlet.aspx. Since this is twice the size of my current, I think just adding one would work the same as two smaller ones. Any opinions on brands of these - I've seen housing costs range from $60 to $200 depending on website/brand.

I really like that unit. I would like to see a bypass valve on it. Couldn't tell if it had one or not. I'd ask, or just put one on myself.



Thanks for keeping us up on your progress. It is frequently nice to see how a person resolves their problem.

Works for me too. Thanks for the update.
Jlisenbe,
having to buy the compressor to charge it periodically just doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't make sense to me either. That's because you don't charge a galvanized tank that way. To charge a galvanized tank you simply drain amd refill it. The air trapped on top will compress to the same PSI that the pump cuts off at. Cheers, Tom

I understand what you are saying. It's just another reason why, in my view, a person should not consider buying a galvanized tank. I had one here for several years that I had to recharge. Thankfully, I had a compressr. I would open a faucet and let it run and I kept putting air in, being careful not to push system pressure over 50 pounds or so. Seems to be a lot easier and less messy than draining the tank. Still, a bladder tank is pretty much maintanence free. That's the beauty of the whole thing.

I might add that, at least according to the manufacturers, a bladder tank is equivalent in performance to a much larger galvanized tank. A thirty gallon bladder tank, for instance, is equivalent to perhaps a sixty gallon galvanized tank. So you can't really compare them price-wise until you take that into consideration.

So what would you rather have, a thirty gallon, maintanence free bladder tank, or a sixty gallon galvanized tank that has to be worked on every three or four months?

BTW RB, don't let our discussion here bother you. We're just talking shop.

Perhaps my last post didn't make it through. You can use a compressor to charge a galvanized tank that's doing it the hard way. To charge a galvanized tank you simply drain amd refill it. The air trapped on top will compress to the same PSI that the pump cuts off.

thirty gallon bladder tank, for instance, is equivalent to perhaps a sixty gallon galvanized tank so a thirty gallon bladder tank will hold as much volume as a sixty gallon galvanized pressure tank? The reason I suggested a pressure tank in the first place was the volume stored n the galvanized tank. With the exception of volume I agree with you. ( Except on how to recharge a pressure tank) LOL. Hope you had a Happy New Year and the hangover wasn't too bad. Cheers, Tom

We had a great day. Thanks. Hope you did as well. Don't drink, so hangover not a problem.

I must admit I don't understand how the manufacturers can compare a smaller bladder tank with a larger galvanized one, but they sure do it. Who knows?

As always, I enjoy our discussions.

Me too!

I like the idea and am considering it myself. I would use an 80 bladder tank direct feed from my well with the pressure switch. The flow would then go from that tank into the first whole house filter, 50 micron and from there to a 5 micron. After the water leaves the 5m filter it would flow into a second 80 gallon bladder tank. The only downside I can see to this arrangement is that on a drawdown that would kick the pump on, the pre-filter tank would hit the cut off pressure slightly before the second tank was 'caught up' because of the flow time through the filter. I am guessing that the system would balance out at a pressure slightly under the cut off pressure. As the filters got dirtier that effect would be increased; i.e. the balanced pressure would be lower... thoughts?

I just don't see that as being a good idea. First of all, an 80 gallon bladder tank is going to cost mega dollars. Look at this link: Amtrol 300-L "L" Series EXTROL ASME Expansion Tank, 80 Gallon (192-2) at PlumberSurplus.com (http://www.plumbersurplus.com/Prod/Amtrol-300-L-L-Series-EXTROL-ASME-Expansion-Tank-80-Gallon-192-2/12347/Cat/219?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=livesearchcashback)

I'm sure you can get one cheaper than that, but you get the picture. A galvanized tank is much cheaper, but it requires periodic maintanence, and for what benefit? Why not simply add a larger filter or put two filters in the line? It might cost a pound or two of pressure, but that's not a big deal.



Well, they are cheaper than I thought. Look at these two. Free shipping with both.

WellMate Fiberglass 87 Gallon Bladder Pressure Tank - WM-25WB - WM-25WB (http://www.aquascience.net/wellmate-pressure-tanks/index.cfm?id=808)

http://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-188-amtrol-well-x-trol-wx-255-well-pressure-tank-81-gal.aspx?affiliateid=10067&utm_source=BingShopping&utm_medium=Feed&utm_campaign=Products

jlisenbe,

Thanks for the response... I am NOT going to use a galvanized tank - I don't understand why that continues to be 'the answer' to pressure tank questions. My last pressure tank I installed a Flotek 80 gallon bladder tank that lasted 16 years and I was happy with it. I am proposing a 2 tank model (each tank is $600 with free shipping) because when I turn the faucet on I want to draw down water that has been pre-filtered and not have to fight the filter for pressure and flow and to increase my drawdown. I am not asking someone thinks it is cost efficient or the way they would do it, but rather are there any design issues/flaws that I am not smart enough to see. Thanks.

I don't understand why that continues to be 'the answer' to pressure tank questions. Because the terms are confusing. A pressure tank is not a bladder tank although they both perform the same function, A 80 gallon pressure tank will hold more volume then a 80 gallon bladder tank and you don't have to worry about a ruptured membrane. Did that make things a bit clearer? Cheers, Tom

Thanks for the 'clarity', not sure it answers my question though.. I have attached plumbing layout and would very much appreciate comments on the feasibility/possible problems/etc...


Sorry, here is the file. The site must not allow Visio files.

I think that what you are proposing will work fine. I'm not sure you are going to notice any great increase in pressure or volume since filters, unless they are clogged, don't decrease pressure that much, but who knows? If you do this, let us know how it works for you. Good luck.

One thing's for sure. Your pump is going to have some llooonnnnggggg cycles, which is good.

Results of my install - second pressure tank after the filter(s). My primary tank is on the right and has the digital cutout switch - set to 40/60 pounds. The pump runs for approximatly 90 seconds to fill the system and cut off the pump. As I expected, the primary tank continues to push water through the filter pack into the seconday tank and the whole system 'balances' at around 57 pounds, I expect that to drop a little as the filters get dirty. I haven't measured the drawdown yet but I am able to do a complete cycle on the cloths washing machine - wash and rinse, and run the dishwasher... I think that is close to 50 gallons.

"...however, because of density of the filter, the water pressure dropped significantly during showering or if you were running the sink and someone else in the house flushed a toilet. "

So is your volume/pressure solved? If so, then this solution is one we will point back to in the future.

BTW, what did the tank cost?

"...however, because of density of the filter, the water pressure dropped significantly during showering or if you were running the sink and someone else in the house flushed a toilet. "

I don't believe that is something I wrote.. in any event, I do have more flow and I believe it is because of the storage past the filters. It is hard to compare since the tank I replaced had a blown bladder and I can't remember what the flow/pressure was when I installed the tank back in 1994. It just makes sense to me that you don't want to fight the filters every time you turn the water on. The tanks were $600 each and with the new filter housing, digital cutout switch, $400 worth of new filters, new FRP panels on the walls, new 30amp wiring, yada yada - the total cost of the system as pictured was roughly $2,500. My next project is a rain collection system that I will use to flush the toliets and do laundry with - it falls out of the sky, seems a shame not to use it..

Sorry, GU. I forgot that you had piggybacked on an existing thread. I go the quote from the original post in this thread.

Hope it works well for you. Let us know how the rain deal goes.

guddaddy,

After a little more time, how is the system working. It is just what we were thinking of doing. Since we put in the filter system, my daughter is tired of the shower not running fast enough to get the shampoo out. Do you see a change in water pressure sufficient to justify the change in the system? Thanks for your clear posts about what you did.

Hi chichagof and Welcome to The Plumbing Page. At AskMeHelpDesk.com. You're responding to a 1 year old dead thread Look in then upper left hand corner of the first post form the date before you post, Thanks,
Have you considered adding a booster pump and bladder tank to increase both pressure and volume? Back to you. Tom

Thanks for the welcome. It looks to me like I am responding to a February 2012 comment, did I end up someplace else as well?

More to the point. Would it be a mistake to put a booster pump in line after a series of filters? I am wondering if pulling water through the filters faster would make them less effective. Thanks for any help. I like the idea of a bladder tank to increase volume.

Thanks for the welcome. It looks to me like I am responding to a February 2012 comment, did I end up someplace else as well? No, The thread you responded ton was John telling another "piggybacker" the same thing I'm telling you... For the original date look at the first post. I don't know about the filter but a bladder tank won't increase volume. For that you would need a galvanized pressure tank. Do the math on which tank holds what. Regards, Tom

To chichagof,

I did not have a 'choice' in changing my system - the bladder in my original tank was blown and the pump was running non-stop for even minor water usage. My new system is working exactly as I anticipted; with a new set of filters the system would cut off at 60 pounds and balance out at 57-58 pounds. As the filters are getting dirtier, the 'balence out' pressure is slowly going down; I have lots of iron and sediment in my water. The 'lower' pressure is OK with me since I am mostly bald and don't need a fire hose to wash my hair. :-) I like the fact that I have lots of draw down between pump cycles. I may crank up the pressure from 60/40 to 70/50 to see if I can get some more life out of the filters.

To chichagof,

I did not have a 'choice' in changing my system - the bladder in my original tank was blown and the pump was running non-stop for even minor water usage. My new system is working exactly as I anticipted; with a new set of filters the system would cut off at 60 pounds and balence out at 57-58 pounds. As the filters are getting dirtier, the 'balence out' pressure is slowly going down; I have lots of iron and sediment in my water. The 'lower' pressure is ok with me since I am mostly bald and dont need a fire hose to wash my hair. :-) I like the fact that I have lots of draw down between pump cycles. I may crank up the pressure from 60/40 to 70/50 to see if I can get some more life out of the filters.

Thanks for the up date. I see your reasoning about kicking up the PSI,(80 should be tops). Bear in mind the higher the PSI the more strain on the pipe fittings and faucets. Good luck, Tom