I need a good claim to show my teacher tomorrow and I need help. I need a claim on the story " what we talk about when we talk about love" by raymond carver. Any ideas or examples I can go off to make my own claim. Please and thank you.

What's a "claim"?

An argument.

What claim did you use?

Carver does not provide a definition of true love and even shows that it's almost impossible to come up with such a definition. I want to focus more on how he develops the characters, like why he has Mel be a cardiologist, or why he has Mel want to be a knight and has him make a "Freudian slip" of vessel for vassal, or Terri's relationship with Ed and how Carver has Mel look at it, etc.

But I do not know how to make a claim out of that.

Let's talk about it.

Rather than character development for all characters, pick one. Who would you choose and why?

I would choose Terri or Mel because that is what the story is mainly about. Mel because he likes to state his own opinion I mean they both have there own opinion on love because Terri was in her past relationship that was kind of abusive but she didn't see it that way because she thought that was true love.

Okay. Now, pick one of them.

I would choose Mel. Because why would the author make him a cardiologist? Why in the story does he say he wishes he can come back in a different life and be a knight or a serf? Like how does that all go with love?

So what would your claim be for Mel?

That's exactly where I am having a hard time. Because I can not write my paper unless I have a claim.

I made one, but it wasn't the write point where my teacher wanted me to go. I had throughout the story, the author showed us many different viewpoints on love, and with these the reader can get a better understanding of the true definition of love. When I told her I thought that was my claim that is when she said the focus should be on the story itself and how Carver does what he does. Carver does not provide a definition of true love and even shows that it's almost impossible to come up with such a definition. Focus more on how he develops the characters, like why he has Mel be a cardiologist, or why he has Mel want to be a knight and has him make a "Freudian slip" of vessel for vassal, or Terri's relationship with Ed and how Carver has Mel look at it, etc.

Did you say how long it is supposed to be, and what level are you?

(Your teacher seems to be making this a lot more complicated than it has to be, plus it's very difficult to make a claim about the whole story.)

The essay has to be 8 pages it is our final essay. My teacher is ridiculous very hard on grading and if I don't pass this essay I fail the class. So I would rather ask you than email her because she makes no sense and you seem to help me more.

Despite Carver's characters' best efforts to define it, no one is able to adequately pinpoint what love is in the short story, "What We Talk About When We Talk About Love." [Then talk about each character and how he or she defines love, but very poorly or incorrectly or superficially.]

I strongly suggest you get two blank pieces of paper, title each side with a character's name, divide each page in half with a line down the middle, title each column "good" and "poor," and then list all the things each one says about love and why each is a good definition or not.

Okay, thank you. I have one last question this is my final essay for the semester it has to be 8 pages long. Do you think you can give me some ideas what to write about in each of my paragraphs or talk about in each. I will send you the topic again. Also should I choose another story by Carver to write about because I have to use some research but I don't know exactly what to research. This is the last thing I am asking and I will leave you alone.

Choose a story by one of the above authors. It must be a story that you really, really like. Then, write your paper, using two to four researched sources, to analyze why you like this story. It could revolve around how the character(s) is created, or the plot twists and turns, or how the author surprises or pleases you with the ending, or how the setting is created draws you into the story and makes you feel as if you're right there, looking on. If there are two stories by the same author that you can't choose between, then write about something similar that the author achieves in both stories. This will still need an argumentative thesis, one that claims something like “Erdrich takes a difficult situation and gets the reader to fully understand what the two main characters are experiencing and feeling.”

Mel

Good - tries over and over again to explain what love is

Poor - confusing examples (older couple in hospital), nasty comments to wife Terri

Okay, did you get what I wrote before this one?

I'd say stick with one story and do a good job. Carver's story about love can be researched. Can the sources be online ones?

I'm with you.

What about something like, Throughout human history, people have tried to define the word "love." [Then talk briefly about different cultures and how they did, such as the ancient Greeks, etc.]

Sorry I wasn't near my computer. Yes the sources are from online. But I don't know what to research. Can you give me like a headline for what to write about in each paragraph that will make it so much easier for me so I can start writing. And then I can finish it tonight and maybe email it to you tomorrow?

What's a headline? You mean a topic sentence?

I meant like ideas on what to write in each paragraph?

Here's what I would do. I would spend the first two pages talking about how various cultures define love and then discuss that -- define them and discuss. Then I would swing into the short story and talk about how each character uses some of the definitions previously discussed, thinking those are ideal love. For instance, Terri's idea of love relates to amae in the Japanese culture. Mel's idea of love is somewhat confused but could relate to the three ancient Greek ideas of love (philos, eros, and agape). And so on with each character. That should easily get you 8 pages.

And does that go with the prompt my teacher was asking for? Do I discuss about the story at all in any of this essay? And what should I exactly research about?

And also to start my first paragraph should I define love and how it was used in the story?

Like I don't understand where in my essay do I actually talk about the actual story, and what do I actually research about the story?

I would spend the first two pages talking about love -- what is it, how do cultures define it, what people in various cultures think it is and want it to be and have defined it. There's the opportunity for research.

Then spend the next five pages talking about each character and what he or she thinks love is. The last page could be about Carver and what he hoped to show about love with this story. More research there.

Does that make sense?

Oh okay, that sounds easy. Do you mind helping me out with a introduction paragraph and maybe sending me your email so I can maybe email you my essay and you correct it for me please?

Earlier I gave you a first sentence:

Throughout human history, people have tried to define the word "love." [Then talk about different cultures and how they did, such as the ancient Greeks, Japanese, etc.]

I am not allowed to take this offline, so you have to ask me questions in this thread. And I definitely do not want to do your work for you.

Oh okay, thank you.

This is what I have so far in my intro.


Throughout human history, people have tried to define the word “love.” Everyone speaks not of love itself, but of the weak structures and distortions that support love. Love, loss, blindness, and aloneness are some of the basic views on everyone's daily lives. The question of how to find love has always been very hesitant. The main cause is how to deal with a loss? Gaining the judgment and getting to the main resolution are some of the issues that have engaged in human beings. All of this is what human being was created for. To live life, entertaining, to discover fresh new things in life, to overcome the negative and positive aspects of life, the whole fundamental of kindness depends on this. Raymond Carver has been called upon as a twentieth century writer and has been successful in every writing possible, by representing the appearance of humanity in fiction and showing the difficult ways of human beings lives and what they lead to. In many of Raymond Carver's stories human beings are people living on the edge of collapsing and bumping heads with one another.

What are you going to do for the next 7.5 pages? You aren't going to go with my idea?

Are you a non-native-English speaker?

I want to go with what you told me, but I didn't know what I was supposed to write in the introduction to lead into what you told me to write in my body paragraphs. And I am a English speaker.

You tossed in Carver at the end of the paragraph. We don't want to see him until the Summary.

How about going to a new paragraph (after dropping the sentences with Carver in them) and talk about various cultures. Wikipedia has a good article on love and general stuff and what certain cultures believe about how/what love is. Please don't plagiarize though.

Love - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love)

So in my introduction keep everything in it? And add stuff from the article you sent me? And then where I was talking about Carver start that in another paragraph?

No.

Get rid of the last two sentences about Carver. Save them for page 8.

Intro

General info about love (2 pages, use info from other web sites too)

Japanese ideas on love (do research)

Ancient Greek ideas on love (do research)

English has only one word for love (do research)

Mel's idea of love

Terri's idea of love

etc. -- other characters

Summary - Carver's ideas on love, and did the story tell us what we need to know about love

Your essay will be

Two pages or so:
What is love?

Love around the world in various cultures and at various times

One or so pages on each person in the story -- Mel, Terri, etc. and their ideas of what love is and relate them to the ideas people have held as per the previous section on cultures -- similarities? Differences?

Last page:
Summary -- Did Carver accomplish what he set out to do according to the story's title. If yes, how (summary of characters' ideas)? If not, why not?

May I send you what I have so far?

Post it here?

Yes, I have a bit done. I did my intro and the general info about love and started the japanese ideas on love. But I don't feel like its correct I am going to post it right now.

Throughout human history, people have tried to define the word “love.” Everyone talks not about love itself, but of the weak structures and distortions that support love. Love, loss, blindness, and loneliness are some of the basic views on everyone's daily lives. Some say that love is a permanent emotion, that if people fall in love with each other, you should continue to love them for the rest of your life. Others see love as a useless emotion, one that could be here today and gone the next. The method of how to find love has always been very hesitant. The main cause is how to deal with a loss. Gaining the judgment and getting to the main resolution are some of the issues that have engaged in human beings. All of this is what human beings were created for; to live life, to entertain, to experience new things in life, to overcome the negative and positive aspects of life. This is the whole fundamental of the emotion love. In the story, “What We Talk About When We Talk About Love” by Raymond Carver, we see how different kinds of viewpoints can really be looked upon on others, and how all these viewpoints on the topic can help us fully understand the definition towards love.
In the short story, “What We Talk About When We Talk About Love” clearly indicates a way of approaching that there was no action to speak or change of the setting in the story, nothing important seems to happen besides going on and off about conversations with one another about love. Love may be described as actions towards you or one another based on the condolence for each other, or the actions towards individuals based on mixed emotions. In our daily language, love refers in a variety of different feelings, meanings, and attitudes towards different things. Love can refer to a personal attractions, romantic love, family, friendship, and religious love. All of these meanings make it difficult to define what love actually is? Raymond Carver's short story states, “What do any of us really know about love? It seems to me we're just beginners at love. We say we love each other and we do, I don't doubt it. I love Terri and Terri loves me, and you guys love each other too. You know the kind of love I'm talking about now. Physical love, that impulse that drives you to someone special, as well as love of the other person's being, his or her essence, as it were” ( Carver pg. 547). That was a kind of sentimental love that went day by day caring for that certain person. No matter how you define it or feel it, love will always be the endless truth to the history of us humans. Love is a very patient and kind meaning towards everyone. Love protects and pushes forward for the positive portion of life. Always try to stand dedicated in any kind of love, never fall into it. Love is a dream of one's feelings coming true that may occur with more than one individual. To make love feel easy, you need to focus on the goodness of the other person and have a positive view on yourself and others by loving everyone equally.
What do you feel with you love someone or want to love someone? Love is simply an emotion, a feeling and wanting to be loved by someone special. The main components on love towards another person is love is accepting, love is appreciated, and love is wanting another person to feel good. Many people in relationships become attached to their loved one which promotes relationships that last for many years with one another. Attachments are based on their commitments such as marriage, having children, or are on mutual friendship based on things like shared interests you both like. Many relationships can lead to being a abusive relationship and having one thinking that really is love. People tend to fall in love with others fairly fast, getting comfortable around another, knowing each others life secrets, and having control about one another. This sometimes leads to sexual abuse if your partner doesn't like what you do or say, it will get into a abusive fight and argument, many people think that is love and are to afraid to leave their other loved one behind. In the article, “ All About Love” psychologist Robert Sternberg, “ formulated a triangular theory of love and argued that love has three different components: Intimacy, Commitment, and Passion.” Intimacy is a form of love shared by two individuals that can share anything with each other and various details of their personal lives and obstacles they went through. Intimacy is mainly showed through close friendships and romantic relationships. Commitment is the expectation that the relationship is going to go through its ups and downs but in the end they promise it will always come together and last forever. The last but most common use of love is sexual attraction and obsession over one another. Passionate love is shown in the fascination as well as in the kind of romantic love.
There has always been a saying that “opposites attract” many people agree that pairs unite to each other when they both have differences with one another. It can be simply anything their appearance, personality, character, etc. Love is simply an activity, not just a feeling. Love is also not a game, if you truly love someone you should always treat them how you would like to be treated with respect and have exactly no control issues. Love is also a choice not something you are forced into. If love comes from appreciating goodness it can happen anything can happen if you just believe. You can always create love it might not come how you want it, but there are always other options out there in the world. The main thing to focus on is the kind hearted people and everyone is one, if you can do this easily you will find love like nothing.














Every language has their own key words that reflect back onto their culture. Every culture can be studied, compared and explained to more than once by using the cultures key words. In Anna Wierzbicka's article, the author “analyzes six Japanese concepts widely regarded as being almost more that any others culture- specific and culturally revealing – amae, enryo, wa, on, giri, and seishin- and shows how the use of the natural semantic metalanguage helps to make the concepts clear and how it facilitates better insight into Japanese culture and society.” These key words replicate on the culture to which the language belongs to. In the Japanese culture to show that you love your parents the Japanese parents are to hug and indulge their children, and the children are expected to reward their mothers by clinging and serving them. In the Japanese culture the two main words for love are ai and koi. There are many ways to say I love you in Japanese, but the implied meaning of “love” is well understood. Love means the same thing when getting married as our culture does. People will promise each other their love for forever when they get married. Marriage is usually the proof of love for one another and a commitment for life. If love disappears and doesn't work out as expected, people tend to divorce very quickly. Japanese think love marriage is better because loveless arranged marriages end up in divorce leading for one parent to raise the children, and in their culture woman often have to quit their jobs and take care of the household. Japanese mean will then look down on the women at work, and are ready to ask them to just stay home and pay for the expenses.

It needs more paragraph breaks and some editing, but generally is good so far. I note some plagiarizing from the Wikipedia article. Be careful.

What do you mean by paragraph breaks where do they need to be started as new paragraphs?

The second and third paragraphs seem pretty dense.