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Cheezeycrackers
Dec 7, 2011, 11:19 AM
I need some help. ME and my group were assigned several monologues fro act 2-5 of Othello.We're really confused. I'm not asking for anyone to do the work for us but if you could identify 1 change in iambic pentameter, and explain how you got it so we can apply it to the rest of the monologue. Also What is Elizabethan Rhetoric

That Cassio loves her, I do well believe it;
That she loves him, 'tis apt and of great credit:
The Moor, howbeit that I endure him not,
Is of a constant, loving, noble nature,
And I dare think he'll prove to Desdemona
A most dear husband. Now, I do love her too;
Not out of absolute lust, though peradventure
I stand accountant for as great a sin,
But partly led to diet my revenge,
For that I do suspect the lusty Moor
Hath leap'd into my seat; the thought whereof
Doth, like a poisonous mineral, gnaw my inwards;
And nothing can or shall content my soul
Till I am even'd with him, wife for wife,
Or failing so, yet that I put the Moor
At least into a jealousy so strong
That judgment cannot cure. Which thing to do,
If this poor trash of Venice, whom I trash
For his quick hunting, stand the putting on,
I'll have our Michael Cassio on the hip,
Abuse him to the Moor in the rank garb—
For I fear Cassio with my night-cap too—
Make the Moor thank me, love me and reward me.
For making him egregiously an ***
And practising upon his peace and quiet
Even to madness. 'Tis here, but yet confused:
Knavery's plain face is never seen tin used.

PLEASE just help us out.

Wondergirl
Dec 7, 2011, 11:29 AM
Iambic means the stress is on the second syllable; pentameter means there are five strong syllables in each line.

-/ -/ -/ -/ -/

This:

When in disgrace with Fortune and men's eyes,
I all alone beweep my outcast state.

Is shown like this:

When IN thisGRACE with FORtune AND men's EYES,
I ALL aLONE beWEEP my OUTcast STATE.

Say that out loud while clapping your hands on each strong beat (like you're cheerleading).

Wondergirl
Dec 7, 2011, 11:33 AM
Elizabethan rhetoric:

Shakespeare's Grammar: Rhetorical Devices (http://www.bardweb.net/grammar/02rhetoric.html)

Example:

diacope -- repetition broken up by one or more intervening words

"Put out the light, and then put out the light." (Othello, V, ii)

Cheezeycrackers
Dec 7, 2011, 11:39 AM
I still don't understand the elizabethan rhetoric

Wondergirl
Dec 7, 2011, 11:42 AM
I still don't understand the elizabethan rhetoric
Did you look at the link I gave you? And I posted an example, from Othello, no less.

You don't "understand" the rhetoric, you just learn it and give examples of it. Writers over the ages have always used various rhetorical devices in their writing. Shakespeare was especially good at this. That site lists the ones he especially liked. There are lots more. :)

Wondergirl
Dec 7, 2011, 11:48 AM
Is the first line of the monologue you posted iambic pentameter? Say it out loud with every second syllable stressed and find out.

That Cassio loves her, I do well believe it;

Does it flow as iambic pentameter?

Cheezeycrackers
Dec 7, 2011, 11:50 AM
I did look but its still a little confusing.is all the things under the explanatory paragraph like alliteration apart of it? I'm sorry I'm not trying to be fickle I just honestly have a problem grasping the subject

Cheezeycrackers
Dec 7, 2011, 11:55 AM
There's 12 syllables though does.nt that make it not an iambic pentameter

Wondergirl
Dec 7, 2011, 11:55 AM
The rhetorical devices are listed alphabetically. Alliteration is the first one listed.

e.g. Silly Sally sat stupidly on her sister's cymbals.

Wondergirl
Dec 7, 2011, 11:58 AM
theres 12 syllables though does.nt that make it not an iambic pentameter
That CASsio LOVES her, I do WELL beLIEVE it;

Iambic pentameter or not?

Cheezeycrackers
Dec 7, 2011, 12:00 PM
It is Iambic pentameter. I'm guessing. So the sentenc itself does not have to be 10 sylables

Wondergirl
Dec 7, 2011, 12:03 PM
It is Iambic pentameter. I'm guessing. so the sentenc itself does not have to be 10 sylables
It's iambic, but it's not pentameter. The word "it" is stuck at the end and messes up the meter.

That Cassio loves her, I do well believe it;

-/ -/ -/ -/ -/ -

Wondergirl
Dec 7, 2011, 12:06 PM
Should Shakespeare have quit writing that line at "believe" and skipped the "it"?

That Cassio loves her, I do well believe;

Cheezeycrackers
Dec 7, 2011, 12:07 PM
So when my question asks for changes in iambic pentameter, it means I'm looking for Iambic

Cheezeycrackers
Dec 7, 2011, 12:13 PM
So for the second line

That SHE loves HIM,'tis APT and OF great CREdit

Thhis is iambic because it has five stressed syllables but it is not pentameter because its 11 syllables in total?

Wondergirl
Dec 7, 2011, 12:25 PM
so when my question asks for changes in iambic pentameter, it means i'm looking for Iambic
No. You're looking for two things, iamb (stress) and five meters.

Again, iambic pentameter is two things: stress and meter. With "That Cassio loves her, I do well believe it;" the stress is right, but the meter is wrong.

Wondergirl
Dec 7, 2011, 12:27 PM
So for the second line

That SHE loves HIM,'tis APT and OF great CREdit

Thhis is iambic becasue it has five stressed syllables but it is not pentameter because its 11 syllables in total?
Yes.

Shakespeare could be sneaky. In one sonnet he wrote, "And trouble deaf heaven with my bootless cries," but we read it as iambic pentameter by saying, "And troub' deaf heaven with my bootless cries." We drop the second syllable of "trouble" so the meter comes out right.

My English teacher told us he had written it that way, but publishers added the second syllable of "trouble" so as not to confuse people about that word. (What's a "troub"?? )

Cheezeycrackers
Dec 7, 2011, 12:40 PM
So these lines are iambic pentameter?

I stand accountant for as great a sin,
But partly led to diet my revenge,
For that I do suspect the lusty Moor
And nothing can or shall content my soul

And this would be an example of prose?
Hath LEAP'D into MY seat; THE thought WHEREof

Wondergirl
Dec 7, 2011, 12:43 PM
so these lines are iambic pentameter?

I stand accountant for as great a sin,
But partly led to diet my revenge,
For that I do suspect the lusty Moor
And nothing can or shall content my soul
Yup!

and this would be an example of prose?
Hath LEAP'D into MY seat; THE thought WHEREof
No. It's iambic pentameter.

Hath LEAP'D inTO my SEAT; the THOUGHT whereOF

Cheezeycrackers
Dec 7, 2011, 12:46 PM
Fantastic! Now I know iambic pentameter. But for my project I need to find the changes in Iambic Pentameter i.e. (Prose, poetry,rhymingcouplets etc)

Cheezeycrackers
Dec 7, 2011, 12:48 PM
Would

Doth, like a poisonous mineral, gnaw my inwards;

Be prose?

Wondergirl
Dec 7, 2011, 12:54 PM
would

Doth, like a poisonous mineral, gnaw my inwards;

be prose?
I'm betting Shakespeare meant it to be iambic pentameter by contracting words (like my "troub" example earlier):

Doth, like a pois'nous min'ral gnaw my inwards;

Doth, like a pois'nous min'ral gnaw my inwards;

Cheezeycrackers
Dec 7, 2011, 12:59 PM
Well are there any prose in this monolouge how can identify them? Also is there any poetry

Wondergirl
Dec 7, 2011, 01:01 PM
well are there any prose in this monolouge how can identify them? also is ther any poetry
Iambic pentameter IS poetry.

Is there supposed to be prose in any of the Othello monologues that you chose?

Cheezeycrackers
Dec 7, 2011, 01:10 PM
No it just says in the description identify:
Changes in Iambic Pentameter (Prose, Poetry,Rhyming couplets)
Punctuation(which I can handle)
Vocabulary(which I can handle)
Literary devices and imagery
And features of elizabethan rhetoric

Wondergirl
Dec 7, 2011, 01:12 PM
Shakespeare's prose has:

* Run-on lines (unlike iambic pentameter)
* No rhyme or metric scheme
* The qualities of everyday language

You can easily spot dialogue written in prose because it appears as a block of text, unlike the strict rhythmic patterns of Shakespeare’s verse.

Check Iago's speech for prose.

Wondergirl
Dec 7, 2011, 01:17 PM
Prose in Hamlet:

I have of late – but wherefore I know not – lost all my mirth, forgone all custom of exercise; and indeed it goes so heavily with my disposition that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory. This most excellent canopy the air, look you, this brave o’erhanging, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire – why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours.
(Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2)

Cheezeycrackers
Dec 7, 2011, 01:17 PM
So lines 5,7,10,11
Are prose?

Wondergirl
Dec 7, 2011, 01:19 PM
so lines 5,7,10,11
are prose?
No. There's no prose in what you posted so far.

Wondergirl
Dec 7, 2011, 01:23 PM
In Shakespeare’s day, it was conventional to write in verse, which was seen as a sign of literary excellence. By writing some of his most serious and poignant speeches in prose (to show humor or mental instability or evil or someone of low birth), Shakespeare was fighting against this convention.

Cheezeycrackers
Dec 7, 2011, 01:23 PM
Oh my any rhyming couplets?
By the way thank you very much I really appreciate all this help

Wondergirl
Dec 7, 2011, 01:35 PM
Here are three rhymed couplets from another play:

Love looks not with the eyes, but with the mind;
And therefore is winged Cupid painted blind.
Nor hath Love's mind of any judgment taste;
Wings, and no eyes, figure unheedy haste:
And therefore is Love said to be a child,
Because in choice he is so oft beguiled.

Cheezeycrackers
Dec 7, 2011, 01:39 PM
OOOHHH so lines 1 and 2 make a rhyming couplet

Wondergirl
Dec 7, 2011, 01:49 PM
OOOHHH so lines 1 and 2 make a rhyming couplet
I could go along with that.

Are you learning anything?

Wondergirl
Dec 7, 2011, 02:00 PM
Act II, scenes I and ii, look for this: "The banter between Iago and Desdemona creates a nervous, uncomfortable atmosphere, in part because their levity is inappropriate, given that Othello’s ship remains missing. The rhyming couplets in which Iago expresses his misogynistic insults lend them an eerie, alienating quality." (SparkNotes)

Cheezeycrackers
Dec 7, 2011, 02:02 PM
OH definitely! I may have to do three more to a large detailed extent by Friday, but every bit helps, and I believe this to be very substantial.

I also found a rhyming couplet in the last two lines which will contribute to it's pattern.

Really thank you so much!

Wondergirl
Dec 7, 2011, 02:09 PM
I also found a rhyming couplet in the last two lines which will contribute to it's pattern.
Yes, the last two lines are a rhyming couplet.

I want you to know what you are talking about and looking for, so then you can do this on your own.

I had a fantastic English teacher in h.s. -- had him for three years. We studied Shakespeare for ten weeks each year, so that was 30 weeks of Shakespeare. That was 50 years ago. He must have done a good job of drilling stuff into my brain, since I can still spit out sonnets we had to memorize.

Cheezeycrackers
Dec 7, 2011, 02:25 PM
Well I think I'm on my way. Only I can choose the vocab I have trouble with and I know how punctuation affects the ideas.The elizabethan rhetoric is more or less just literary devices that are identified without really going into. I think I will be fine. It'll just take a while to complete. I'll post again if I need more help.

Wondergirl
Dec 7, 2011, 02:32 PM
I'll be glad to help with anything else. Study hard and do a great job!