I've seen plenty about the opposite problem - maybe this is something less common: my toilet flange is above the anticipated floor level. I recently removed old tile from the bathroom floor, planning to install new tile. In so doing, I discovered that the old tile was set on about 3 inches of thinset/mortar - which had effectively built up the floor 3 inches. Now once that's been removed, I've got a toilet flange with a base/bottom approx 3 inches above the floor boards. Once the new concrete backing board and tile is placed on the floor, I'll probably still have a couple of inches of flange protruding from floor level. Is there a safe way to push the flange down into or towards the drain somewhat? I haven't checked for sure yet, but I think that it's a straight (unbent) flange - unless there isn't such a thing. HELP!

Thanks,

Good morning James,
In order to answer I will have to know the material the flange consists of. Cast iron with a lead joint or PVC with the flange glued in? There are different methods for both. This is not a big deal no matter what you have. I can walk you through the process when I know what I'm dealing with. I'll wait on your reply. Regards, Tom

Tom:

Thanks for the quick reply - it's a cast iron flange.

When I'm faced with a cast iron flange that has to be lowered I take a small block of 2 X 4 and holding it against the pipe wall start to work it down by using a hammer and tapping the block all the way around the pipe. Make sure the greatest force is directed against the inside part of the flange next to the pipe wall and not the outside next to the slots. Remember, cast iron's brittle so tap lightly but firmly, don't try to beat it to death. Slowly tap your way around the flange until it's down against the floor line. You will not have to pour a new lead joint however, The lead seal will be loosened so you will have to take a set of inside and .outside caulking irons and recaulk the lead joint. You will be left with a few inches of 4" cast iron pipe exposed. I take a cresent wrench, and taking small bites nibble the pipe down to the joint. If you recaulk the lead joint and the joint is tight you can take the pipe down piece by piece until the toilet can be reset. A jagged edge left on the pipe's Ok since the throat of the bowl will extend below the flange line and nothing will catch on the pipe. Good luck, Tom

I have that same problem onlye with PVC instead of cast iron. We took out 2 layers of ceramic tile and now have about an inch of old rotted wood spacer holding our flange off the new linoleum floor. The pipe running down from the flange is black PVC.

That particular line is a hodge-podge of joins beneath the floor - when the house was remodeled it was very difficult for the plumber to get the right drop from our toilet, so there's no place beneath the floor where we can cut and put in a shorter piece of pipe.

I didn't want to try to do something from the top without advice because I was afraid I'd mess up the pipe beneath the floor.

How would you suggest I approach this? Calling a plumber is a response I kind of expect to get, so don't worry if that's what you need to say.

Thanks,

Jeanne

Plumbers aren't magicians. The do know a lot of tricks like Tom suggesting nibbling the cast iron pipe off little by little with a wrench. The plumber would have to rip stuff out to get at a place where he could work, or rip more pipe out. Can you find 2 places where you have a couple of inches of pipe that could accept a coupling? Cut the pipe there and cement in new pipe and fittings as needed. The more elbows you eliminate, the less likely the drain will stop up. Make sure you buy drain, and not the shorter pressure elbows. Black PVC? Make sure it is not ABS. ABS is no big deal except you must use ABS fittings and ABS cement. Pipe from the factory tells on it what it is. Old pipe in a house may not. Burn a scrap. ABS will give a burning styrofoam stench. If it smells more acid, heat a copper wire in a gas flame, pick up a little of it and stick it back in the flame. If it contains chlorine, PVC, you will get a brilliant green flame. A blowtorch will work.

Can you find 2 places where you have a couple of inches of pipe that could accept a coupling? <snip> Black PVC? Make sure it is not ABS.

Unfortunately the flange is slightly angled to go into a long sweep elbow, which has a short piece of pipe (black ABS) connecting it to a long sweep Y. The short length of pipe is just barely long enough to cut, but not long enough to glue anything to.

We could possibly use on of the flexible couplings on it if we could attach it on at leat one end to the elbow , rather than to pipe - is this feasible? Out only other option seems to be to take it all out to the junction at the other end of that long Y - but that's really beyond our skills, I think, and we'd need a plumber.

Thanks for your help so far.

Jeanne

[email protected]]> Cast iron with a lead joint or PVC with the flange >glued in? There are different methods for both. >This is not a big deal no matter what you have.

I'm listenng to the "this is not a big deal" part and hoping you have an idea for me to try. Mine is PVC with the flange glued on. Its about an inch above floor level and there doesn't appear to be a way to cut it off below floor level without having to go out about 15 feet of complex patched together drain.

Is it possible, do you think, to cut the pipe at the bottom of the flange and then glue on another flange? If so, how would I go about it to do it the right way?

Thanks, I hope you can help!

jeanne



Good morning Jeanne,
No sweat! Simply cut the old ABS flange off at the floor line, making sure that you file, sand or cut back any part that isn't level with the floor line and then glue in a new PVC flange. Use Oatey All Purpose Cement.
Don't forget to get a small can of primer and coat both the outside of the pipe and the inside of the flange before you glue. If you don't you will not get a decent glue joint and the flange will pull up and out. ( Black PVC? Make sure it is not ABS. ABS is no big deal except you must use ABS fittings and ABS cement.) Black PVC = ABS. As for gluing on a PVC fitting onto ABS pipe it used to be a no-no. However there is a glue out, (Oatey All Purpose Cement ) that will let you do just that. Check it out at http://store.watergardenweb.com/pvcabscement.html good luck, Tom[/QUOTE]

Great info on closet flanges being too high. I have a similar problem and would appreciate additional help. I had to move my toilet about 4'. In order to keep the correct pitch the closet flange is too high. I have a 3" pvc street el 90 coming up through the floor. I have been trying to find a 3" "flush mount" closet flange that fits over the 3" drain. Do they make such an animal or is another option available? I need to lower the closet flange about ¾ to 1”. Appreciate any help.

PG633,
No sweat! Simply cut the old flange off at the floor line, making sure that you file, sand or cut back any part that isn't level with the floor line and then glue in a new 3" PVC flange. By flush mount I assume you mean a flange without the stock on the bottom. Ace hardware has one at,
http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1297369&cp=&keywords=closet+flange&y=14&searchId=10386397487&x=21&parentPage=search
Go check it out. This flange is ABS but will glue on to PVC using Oatey PVC/ABS cement. http://store.watergardenweb.com/pvcabscement.html regards, Tom

Tom,

Thanks for the help and quick reply. I checked out the link to Ace and the flush mount flange is a 4". I need 3". I am hoping I can make the same think by cutting off some of the stock on a standard 3" flange. I just need to make sure that my finished floor is higher then the stop on the 3" street el 90. It's close but I think I can make it. I tried to attach a picture but the file is too large.

Thanks again
pg633

I hope I'm not hijacking this thread, but this is close to what I'm experiencing. I believe I have 3 inch pvc long turn or sweep wye coming up from the bottom. The closet flange that goes on top of this is not level and it is three and a half inches from the floor. I've read this thread and I'm hoping the response pertains to me. Obviously I want to lower the flange and or pipe to the ground and have it leveled. I will be installing ceramic tile and mortar, so I would have to include this in making sure that everything fits flush. Will this quote "Simply cut the old flange off at the floor line, making sure that you file, sand or cut back any part that isn't level with the floor line and then glue in a new 3" PVC flange" solve my problem or will I have to bust the cement back up again and go with another aproach. Thank you.

I hope I'm not hijacking this thread, but this is close to what I'm experiencing. I believe I have 3 inch pvc long turn or sweep wye coming up from the bottom. The closet flange that goes on top of this is not level and it is three and a half inches from the floor. I've read this thread and I'm hoping the response pertains to me. Obviously I want to lower the flange and or pipe to the ground and have it leveled. I will be installing ceramic tile and mortar, so I would have to include this in making sure that everything fits flush. Will this quote "Simply cut the old flange off at the floor line, making sure that you file, sand or cut back any part that isn't level with the floor line and then glue in a new 3" PVC flange" solve my problem or will I have to bust the cement back up again and go with another aproach. thank you.


Install your ceramic tile, leaving a 3/8" opening around the 3" PVC for the new flange to slip over and then to use your words, "Simply cut the old flange and PVC off at the floor line, making sure that you file, sand or cut back any part that isn't level with the floor line and then glue in a new 3" PVC flange".
That should get the job done. Regards, Tom

Thanks, Tom for the response. I wish those were my words, I did put them in quotaton. Your words were understood, but because the flange was not on straight I thought there would be a problem. I forgot to mention, that the long turn wye coming up from the bottom-the base, cap, or stock I'm not sure what the actual name is had been cut off already. Well, I'm going to cut what's left and see what happens from there. Thanks for your advice and keep up the great work.
vince

Thanks, Tom for the response. I wish those were my words, I did put them in quotaton. Your words were understood, but because the flange was not on straight I thought there would be a problem. I forgot to mention, that the long turn wye coming up from the bottom-the base, cap, or stock I'm not sure what the actual name is had been cut off already. Well, I'm going to cut whats left and see what happens from there. Thanks for your advice and keep up the great work.
vince

Hey Vince,
Even if the stub up is a bit under the floor level when you tile you can purchase a "deep closet flange" that will still mate up with the underfloor stub up. Good luck, Tom

Thanks for the advice. I'm at work right now, will try to see if I can do this in the next couple of days. I did cut the old flange off, I have about a 3/8 in inch stub sticking up from the ground.
vince

Guys,

If you are dealing with cast iron that is too high you can cut it off with a saw, grind it with an angle grinder, or chip it off like Speedball said (sawing is not recommended ). If you don't want to use a lead joint upon reassembly check these out. They are PVC with rubber gaskets that slide inside your existing cast iron pipe... I used one and it was good to go... You can also use them with PVC pipe 4 or 3 inch. A good tip is to take the gasket off and test fit the flange. Then you can trim your toilet pipe, put the gasket back on and slide it in place. Don't forget to anchor it (the flange) to the floor.

http://www.plumbest.com/searchenginevisitor.html?http%3A//www.plumbest.com/catalog/e93.htm

Also scroll through the pages and you will find any toilet flange you may ever need.


Giddy-up!

Thanks for the resource tommytman. I bought another 3 inch pvc closet flange 4x3 and cutoff the stock as much as I could, but I'm still too high. I found out that I can only go down an inch before I hit the stop. If, I placed a closet extender over top of the stub it would fit pretty much flush with the floor, but there would be no gasket into the pipe. So, I guess if I had an extender with a 1 inch drop I would be fine.

Plumbing shops and wholesale houses have 2 different closet flanges available for both 3" and 4" size ABS pipe. 1 goes inside the pipe and one goes outside of the pipe. This makes it real easy to remedy cases like this.

Just want to say thanks to tom, tommytman and darrel1953 for your advice. To make a long story short, I went to two different supply houses and could not get what I was looking for. The link that tommytman gave me was what I was looking for at the time. I called and talked to their reps and was finally starting to understand some of the "plumbing jargon" everyone was speaking. I finally ended up buying 2 flanges from Lowe's that were from the link that Tommytman supplied earlier. I bought a 3 inch that goes inside and a 4 inch that goes outside the pipe. I think that's right, I don't have them in front of me. The biggest problem that I encountered is that the supply houses kept giving me a flush mount flange that had a bevel under the flange. When I finally found the flush mount that was truly "flush" I started to understand what Tom was talking about. I can write a book on this particular experience, but I will save some space for someone else with problems in this forum. Thanks again for the help, I truly appreciate it.
vince

The flange bolt in my bathroom needs to be replaced.It this a major thing to fix.One of the flange bolts will not tighten and just turns and turns.Is there a repair kit for this.The bolts holding the tiolet to the floor are about 50 years old.My wife asked me to fix this problem months ago.This is what I get for procrastinateing.Please help me. :eek: :eek: :eek:

The flange bolt in my bathroom needs to be replaced.It this a major thing to fix.One of the flange bolts will not tighten and just turns and turns.Is there a repair kit for this.The bolts holding the tiolet to the floor are about 50 years old.My wife asked me to fix this problem months ago.This is what I get for procrastinateing.Please help me. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Good morning Dan,

No problem. There are several ways to go about this. One way is to loosen the threads with some WD40 and grip the top of the bolt while tighting the nut. If the bolt's too short to grab on to and the nut still refuses to tighten down, the job just gets a little more difficult.
We take a hacksaw blade and saw off the stubborn bolt. We then remove the other nut from the remaining bolt and shut off, disconnect the water supply and pull the toilet. We then take a new set of closet bolts and position them on the flange. Next we take a extra set of nuts and washers and secure the bolts to the flange to prevent them from turning. Now we reset the toilet,( you may need a new wax seal), tighten and saw off the bolts to size and reconnect the supply. To give your job a professional look, purchase a small tube of Dap White Tub and Tile Caulk and grout the base with a bead of caulk. Smootrh off the excess with a damp cloth. Congratulations! You have just accomplished two things. You fixed your potty and got the "little woman" off your back. Cheers, Tom

I have a toilet flange in a concrete slab house with a ceramic tile floor, that extends approx 3/4" above the tile surface. What are the options? Is there a toilet with a recessed exit? i.e the wax ring would actually be allowed to fit on the flange and the toilet would have room to allow for the wax seal to fit "higher"? Cutting the flange off and installing a new one appears difficult (at best) since the flange that in currently in place is glued to the inside of the sewer pipe about 3.5" down into the current drain pipe. If I cut out the flange I don't know if there is a replacement flange that would reach the existing pipe (after it is cut). Ideas?
Thanks in advance
Gary

Gary,
Check these out. Seems a bit high 3/4 inch. What kind of toilet was there before? Is it a plastic flange? If yes you could probably bust it out and then use the flange in the link below. It fits inside the pipe and seals with a rubber gasket. Once in place you can pour some concrete around the pipe/ new flange and then before it dries drop a couple of tapcon screws into it to anchor the flange. Or you can let it dry then drill/tapcon. Of course if the concrete slab is already close enough to the flange just drill and use tapcons (tapcon screws are special concrete screws you drill into the concrete with the right size bit and then put the screw in).


http://www.plumbest.com/searchengin...catalog/e93.htm

Sorry they changed the web page. That link doesn't work. Go to plumbest.com and look for a 2 finger flange that fits my description. If it helps Lowe's carries what I was talking about.

Tom

I have a toilet flange in a concrete slab house with a ceramic tile floor, that extends approx 3/4" above the tile surface. What are the options? Is there a toilet with a recessed exit? i.e the wax ring would actually be allowed to fit on the flange and the toilet would have room to allow for the wax seal to fit "higher"? Cutting the flange off and installing a new one appears difficult (at best) since the flange that in currently in place is glued to the inside of the sewer pipe about 3.5" down into the current drain pipe. If I cut out the flange I don't know if there is a replacement flange that would reach the existing pipe (after it is cut). Ideas??
Thanks in advance
Gary

Good morning Gary,

I'd like to learn more about this. Why does the flange extend 3/4" above the tile floor. What caused this ? New floor? PVC or ABS pipe and flange?
Since your present flange is a inside flange Tommys idea of placing another inside replacement flange won't fly. Is it possible to take a saws-all, (reciprocating saw) and cut the pipe off even with the tile floor? Is there a 1/2" space around the pipe so a outside flange might be set or is the tile right next to the pipe? I have a idea that might work but don't know enough about your situation. Give me all the details. Regards, Tom

I am completely redo-ing my bathroom due to water damage to the sheet rock. As part of the renovation, I am removing the vinyl flooring and going to be installing tile on the floor. Above the subfloor, is a 1/2" plywood underlayment, and then an additional 1/4" of plywood that was added for smoothing (I presume) when the added the vinyl flooring. The rocket scientist that did this added the 1/4" layer and vinyl without raising the toilet flange.

Because my house is 40 years old, I plan to remove both of the underlayment layers, and replace them with 1/2" plywood, followed by 1/4" ceramic backer board for the tile. I want to raise my toilet flange to set on top of the tile once I have it in. My only problem is finding a new flange to help me out.

The drain pipe to the flange is a little over 3" O.D. copper pipe, and I'm not sure how the pipe is attached to the flange. I have access to the pipe from the basement, but am unable to remove the flange even after removing the very rusty bolts that attach it to the underlayment and subfloor. I talked with a knowledgeable (seemed so) guy at Menards, who advised me that what I had was rather unusual, and had nothing to suggest for me to do to adapt. Are there any good ways to easily adapt to this presumably somewhat less than 3" ID copper pipe? I'm in close quarters, because around the 3" pipe are hot and cold water supply pipes and also HVAC ducting - not the greatest access. Any help would be greatly appreciated... even if it is a recommendation to call a plumber and have him do the job once I have the tile in. If the plumber is the only choice I have, any advise on removing the existing flange would be appreciated.

Thanks!

I am completely redo-ing my bathroom due to water damage to the sheet rock. As part of the renovation, I am removing the vinyl flooring and going to be installing tile on the floor. Above the subfloor, is a 1/2" plywood underlayment, and then an additional 1/4" of plywood that was added for smoothing (I presume) when the added the vinyl flooring. The rocket scientist that did this added the 1/4" layer and vinyl without raising the toilet flange.

Because my house is 40 years old, I plan to remove both of the underlayment layers, and replace them with 1/2" plywood, followed by 1/4" ceramic backer board for the tile. I want to raise my toilet flange to set on top of the tile once I have it in. My only problem is finding a new flange to help me out.

The drain pipe to the flange is a little over 3" O.D. copper pipe, and I'm not sure how the pipe is attached to the flange. I have access to the pipe from the basement, but am unable to remove the flange even after removing the very rusty bolts that attach it to the underlayment and subfloor. I talked with a knowledgable (seemed so) guy at Menards, who advised me that what I had was rather unusual, and had nothing to suggest for me to do to adapt. Are there any good ways to easily adapt to this presumably somewhat less than 3" ID copper pipe? I'm in close quarters, because around the 3" pipe are hot and cold water supply pipes and also HVAC ducting - not the greatest access. Any help would be greatly appreciated....even if it is a recommendation to call a plumber and have him do the job once I have the tile in. If the plumber is the only choice I have, any advise on removing the existing flange would be appreciated.

Thanks!

You gave us all the information we need except what material the flange is made of and what secures it to the copper pipe. We have to know this in order to help. Let us know and get a answer back ASAP. Are you the same Henny with a cabin you wish to add a bathroom to? Tom

You gave us all the information we need except what material the flange is made of and what secures it to the copper pipe. We have to know this in order to help. Let us know and get a answer back ASAP. Are you the same Henny with a cabin you wish to add a bathroom to? Tom
Tom,

I'm a different Henny, not wealthy enough to afford a cabin! :) Upon closer examination of the flange it appears that they took a flange (cast metal, it appears & feels) and caulked it to the exterior of the 3"+ OD copper return tube.... kind of a Jerry-Rigged arrangement, but possibly the way it has been for the whole 40 years of this houses' existence.

I was thinking about the following to remedy the situation. Above the supply tubes that run horizontal, but right next to the 3"+ pipe, I would cut off the pipe and find one of those rubber (vinyl?) adapters with the worm gear clamps to clamp onto the OD of the copper pipe and step it up to 4" PVC. I would then use one of the "slip-in" flanges for a 4" pipe that have allen head screws on the inside that expand a seal outward to create the seal between the 4" PVC and the adapter peice. My only real worry with a set-up like this is the potential for external leakage at the joint between the smaller ID of the rubber peice and the OD of the 3" copper pipe... Thought I might be able to improve the robustness of the joint if I were to be able to form some type of a bead on the OD of the copper pipe, but don't know a practical way to accomplish such a thing given my confined space. I also don't know if it is even a concern given the very low pressure that the return side of the plumbing typically sees.

Thanks for giving this your thought and Best Regards!!

Tom,

I'm a different Henny, not wealthy enough to afford a cabin! :) Upon closer examination of the flange it appears that they took a flange (cast metal, it appears & feels) and caulked it to the exterior of the 3"+ OD copper return tube.... kind of a Jerry-Rigged arrangement, but possibly the way it has been for the whole 40 years of this houses' existence.

I was thinking about the following to remedy the situation. Above the supply tubes that run horizontal, but right next to the 3"+ pipe, I would cut off the pipe and find one of those rubber (vinyl?) adapters with the worm gear clamps to clamp onto the OD of the copper pipe and step it up to 4" PVC. I would then use one of the "slip-in" flanges for a 4" pipe that have allen head screws on the inside that expand a seal outward to create the seal between the 4" PVC and the adapter peice. My only real worry with a set-up like this is the potential for external leakage at the joint between the smaller ID of the rubber peice and the OD of the 3" copper pipe.... Thought I might be able to improve the robustness of the joint if I were to be able to form some type of a bead on the OD of the copper pipe, but don't know a practical way to accomplish such a thing given my confined space. I also don't know if it is even a concern given the very low pressure that the return side of the plumbing typically sees.

Thanks for giving this your thought and Best Regards!!!


Why increase to 4"? Go for a 3" "slip in flange" and cut down on the connections. Sound like a plan? Tom

Why increase to 4"? Go for a 3" "slip in flange" and cut down on the connections. Sound like a plan?? Tom

Tom,

Menard's only has 4" slip-in flanges. I suppose I can check with Lowes, which we also have locally, to see if they have 3" slip-ins. I really appreciate the help you've given so far... can you please confirm for me that using the "rubber/vinyl with worm gear clamps is acceptable for use? It is what I am most concerned about.

Best Regards,

Matt

Tom,

Menard's only has 4" slip-in flanges. I suppose I can check with Lowes, which we also have locally, to see if they have 3" slip-ins. I really appreciate the help you've given so far... can you please confirm for me that using the "rubber/vinyl with worm gear clamps is acceptable for use? It is what I am most concerned about.

Best Regards,

Matt


Good morning Matt,

Click on, http://www.fernco.com/FTS.html and tell me if Ferncos Fits3 wouldn't be tailor made for your installation. That way you could use the old flange to tie the bowl down and still have the discharge funneled down into the 3" copper stub up. The only way I would even consider using a neoprene coupling/increaser with hose clamps is if I couldn't find anything else that would work. The potential for leaks over time worrys me. With a Fernco seal you would have a positive connection. Let me know what you think? Tom

Good morning Matt,

Click on, http://www.fernco.com/FTS.html and tell me if Ferncos Fits3 wouldn't be tailor made for your installation. That way you could use the old flange to tie the bowl down and still have the discharge funneled down into the 3" copper stub up. The only way i would even consider using a neoprene coupling/increaser with hose clamps is if I couldn't find anything else that would work. The potential for leaks over time worrys me. With a Fernco seal you would have a positive connection. Let me know what you think? Tom

Continued thanks, Tom. I was worried about the flex coupling as well. If I understand this correctly, I would remove the underlayment, and install the 1/2" plywood underneath the existing flange. I would then install my 1/4" ceramic backerboard around the existing flange, which basically put the ceramic backerboard and the top of the existing flange on approx the same level. I tile, which will add about 3/8" to the height. This FTS seal would then attach to the bottom of my toilet (after I pressure wash the existing wax off and clean with a solvent) and I slip the toilet into the existing flange. Looks like it would make up the 5/8" height difference between the flange and the floor the toilet will sit on. Am I correct in these assumptions?

Also, are there longer bolts available to bolt the toilet down? I don't think the bolts I have would be long enough to reach through given the new height of the toilet set-up.

Best Regards... Matt

Continued thanks, Tom. I was worried about the flex coupling as well. If I understand this correctly, I would go ahead and remove the underlayment, and install the 1/2" plywood underneath the existing flange. I would then install my 1/4" ceramic backerboard around the existing flange, which basically put the ceramic backerboard and the top of the existing flange on approx the same level. I go ahead and tile, which will add about 3/8" to the height. This FTS seal would then attach to the bottom of my toilet (after I pressure wash the existing wax off and clean with a solvent) and I slip the toilet into the existing flange. Looks like it would make up the 5/8" height difference between the flange and the floor the toilet will sit on. Am I correct in these assumptions?

Also, are there longer bolts available to bolt the toilet down? I don't think the bolts I have would be long enough to reach through given the new height of the toilet set-up.

Best Regards....Matt

Good morning Matt,

If you look at the bottom of the bowl you will see a "throat" that directs the discharge past the floor line into the closet bend. The FTS seal, (in addition to replacing the wax seal) extends the throat and seals the FTS to the closet bend with a "O" ring. Longer closet bolts are available but I doubt you'll need them since on a regular installation there is always a inch or so of bolt to trim off. Looks loke you have all your ducks in a row. Complete your job. Have a great week end. Tom

Job Complete without leaks. Thanks for the advice!!

I have a similar problem, but the flange only sticks out about 3/4" above the tile. Previous owners had the toilet on shims, which I was told was a bad idea. Is there any other workaround for this without removing pipe material?

Thanks,

Vince

I have a similar problem, but the flange only sticks out about 3/4" above the tile. Previous owners had the toilet on shims, which I was told was a bad idea. Is there any other workaround for this without removing pipe material?

Thanks,

Vince


Hi Vince.

What material is your pipe and flange? 3/4" is a little high to be jacking a toilet up so I agree it should be brought down the floor level. But there are different methods on doing this depending on the pipes and flange so first I have to know. Regards, Tom

Hi Vince.

What material is your pipe and flange? 3/4" is a little high to be jacking a toilet up so I agree it should be brought down the floor level. But there are different methods on doing this depending on the pipes and flange so first I have to know. Regards, Tom

Tom,

After investigating the material of the pipe and flange, I found out there was a layer of lead underneath the plastic flange, which connected to the pipe (probably cast iron?) While pounding on the lead with a hammer, I noticed that I could probably pry the lead out completely to get the flange down another 1/4" or so. Beneath the lead was another metal ring which was also screwed to the floor. I took out the ring and beat the pipe down and out until the flange finally fit in there. Now the plastic flange sits directly on top of the wood flooring instead of on top of lead and the metal ring, which gave me my 3/4" back. The top of the flange is now perfectly flush with the tile.

Thanks for the encouragement!

Vince

Hi Guys,
I just quickly reviewed all postings here trying to see if I can find an anwer to my question, but some things are too difficult for me to understand, as I am not familiar with the whole subject.

I hired a plumber to install a new toilet in half a bath in the basement. The old toilet was 60 years old. We agreed that he would take it out and give me time to put ceramic tiles (the old owner had vynyl tiles on horrible concrete floor going up and down and to the left and right. So, when I put new tiles, I had to level each tile by putting a different amount of cement under each tile. Ok, I put the tiles (the plumber told me not to go above the level of the old bolts that he cut and which are still there. He did not remove the flange, so I assumed that he would do it after I put the tiles. I have just called him to tell him to come back to install the toilet and reminded him to bring the new flange with him. Do you know what he said? "There is an old flange there and it stays. I told him that it DOES NOT stay as it is 60 years old and looks horrible - it's falling apart - the metal looks like it has several layers. Then he says, "OK I will take a look at it when I come back tomorrow" I am so upset now that I started reading everything I can find about flanges and found this nice forum. I hope he will be able to remove the old flange and the level of my tiles will permit him to install the new flange at the same level w/my tiles. Now, the old flange is at a lower lever than my tiles. I read here that, when people had a different problem and needed to lower the flange, they were able to do it. Please comfort me and tell me if it is possible to raise the new flange in case it is necessary. I understand after reading all this stuff that there are different kinds of flanges and noticed that there is one that was called here as "Deep closet flange". Is it the one that allows you to raise your flange in case your floor is at a higher level than the old flange? Please respond. I need to call that plumber and tell him to make sure that he has the right flange with him. He gave me the wrong instructions by not planning to replace the old flange, and now he doesn't know that the old flange is a little bit below the level of the tiles.
THANKS.

Hi Guys,
I just quickly reviewed all postings here trying to see if I can find an anwer to my question, but some things are too difficult for me to understand, as I am not familiar with the whole subject.

I hired a plumber to install a new toilet in half a bath in the basement. The old toilet was 60 years old. We agreed that he would take it out and give me time to put ceramic tiles (the old owner had vynyl tiles on horrible concrete floor going up and down and to the left and right. So, when I put new tiles, I had to level each tile by putting a different amount of cement under each tile. Ok, I put the tiles (the plumber told me not to go above the level of the old bolts that he cut and which are still there. He did not remove the flange, so I assumed that he would do it after I put the tiles. I have just called him to tell him to come back to install the toilet and reminded him to bring the new flange with him. Do you know what he said? "There is an old flange there and it stays. I told him that it DOES NOT stay as it is 60 years old and looks horrible - it's falling apart - the metal looks like it has several layers. Then he says, "OK I will take a look at it when I come back tomorrow" I am so upset now that I started reading everything I can find about flanges and found this nice forum. I hope he will be able to remove the old flange and the level of my tiles will permit him to install the new flange at the same level w/my tiles. Now, the old flange is at a lower lever than my tiles. I read here that, when people had a different problem and needed to lower the flange, they were able to do it. Please comfort me and tell me if it is possible to raise the new flange in case it is necessary. I understand after reading all this stuff that there are different kinds of flanges and noticed that there is one that was called here as "Deep closet flange". Is it the one that allows you to raise your flange in case your floor is at a higher level than the old flange? Please respond. I need to call that plumber and tell him to make sure that he has the right flange with him. He gave me the wrong instructions by not planning to replace the old flange, and now he doesn't know that the old flange is a little bit below the level of the tiles.
THANKS.


Hi Nicole,

Is the old flange broken? Are the slots intact? Just how far is it beneath the tile floor? If the old flange were to be replaced it should have been removed before you tiled the floor. Understand this. A closet flange's only function is to secure the bowl to the floor. Your toilet has a 3" throat that extends down past the flange and into the closet bend. Plus if you're still worried you can install a wax seal with a funnel attachment. If the flange is just "a little bit" below the tile floor your worries are needless. Deep flanges are for instillations that need the flange raised from 1 to 6" and yours sounds to me that setting a toilet on it would present no problems. Good luck Tom

I recently installed a new tile floor in my bathroom, and in doing so, raised the level of the floor. i went out and purchased a closet flange spacer kit and it came withe the spacer and two rubber gaskets. i need to know how to attache these. so i put the first gasket on, then the spacer, then do i screw these to the floor, or do i just run the new carriage bolts through the holes in both the gaskets and attach the toilet. i also wan to know if i need to put in a wax ring. pleas help,. thanks.

Where are the instructions that came with the kit?
There are more then one spacer kit on the market so I need know the brand name and model #if you have it of the spacer kit that you have. And yes you'll need a wax seal unless otherwise instructed. Regards, Tom

How about this situation? I have a closet toilet flange that is too high but it is a bronze fitting sweated to a 3" copper pipe. I tried to heat the pipe with a map gas torch for 10-15 minutes and it still would not budge. There is not enough room to replace the pipe underneath the floor with a fernco or to sweat another fitting into place. Should I just cut it level with the subfloor and get an insert made for cast iron fittings? Or should I keep trying to unsweat it with the torch?

How about this situation? I have a closet toilet flange that is too high but it is a bronze fitting sweated to a 3" copper pipe. I tried to heat the pipe with a map gas torch for 10-15 minutes and it still would not budge. there is not enough room to replace the pipe underneath the floor with a fernco or to sweat another fitting into place. Should I just cut it level with the subfloor and get an insert made for cast iron fittings? or should I keep trying to unsweat it with the torch?
How high is the flange? You may not have to do anything. Sounds like you have a brass flange that's soldered to a copper closet bend. You can't heat a large area with a small torch tip. When I'm faced with a large area to heat I use the largest torch tip they make, (see image). Put a large tip on your torch and run around the joint with the flame until you can pull the flange off. Good luck, Tom

How high is the flange? You may not have to do anything. Sounds like you have a brass flange that's soldered to a copper closet bend. You can't heat a large area with a small torch tip. When I'm faced with a large area to heat I use the largest torch tip they make, (see image). Put a large tip on your torch and run around the joint with the flame until you can pull the flange off. Good luck, Tom

Thanks for the reply. I purchased a push in repair flange made for a 3" copper pipe. If I can't get the floor built up to the original level, I will cut through the flange and pipe with a saws all at the subfloor level and use this flange. I am always amazed at the quality of vintage plumbing parts It looks as perfect as the day it was installed even with my failed torching.

If you cut the pipe with a Saws-All make sure to sand off the rough edges. Good luck, Tom

I, too, retiled my bathroom floor and found 2-3 inches of cement under the tile. After removing it and laying the new floor, my cast iron flange setup is about 3/4 in above the tile's surface so I can't install my toilet. I have read this thread with varying degrees of understanding. :rolleyes:

People were talking about cutting the pipe but how exactly would I do that? And with what exactly? I have about an inch of space around the pipe/flange if that matters. How long could I expect it to take to cut a cast iron pipe? Are we talking like days? :p It seems like it would be extremely difficult to get through this metal.


KT

You can cut the pipe with a sawzall with an appropriate metal cutting blade

Guys, someone needs to start thinking of starting their own question. This post started nearly 5 years ago and people have been tagging on ever since.

Ok we've spent all day with this metal cutting wheel grindy type thing and just finally got the pipe cut all the way around. We bought a bunch of different flange options from the Lowe's and the Home Depot and will try to experiment and see if any or all work out. This is our only bathroom so we're kind of eager to get this done ASAP.

The reason this question has been so well used and is such a terrific resource for those of us with flange issues is that this question comes up as a top 10 result in Google searches for "toilet flange too tall" etc. If we started a new one it would take a few years to build up the same coverage. :D

EDIT: OK the pipe is still about a centimeter too high for any of the flanges we got to work. The cutting wheel thing we got won't fit in this part of the pipe(they are both exactly 4 in in diameter) to cut it and there is no way to get a sawsall down in around the pipe. Who would have thought retiling a bathroom floor would've led to all this!

Tino:

Did you get a twist and set flange.. Goes inside the pipe.

See pic.. May look like PVC, but meant to fit inside 4" cast iron pipe. They are found at most home supply stores. If not there then need to check out availability at a local plumbing supply house.

Lennox makes a diamond sawzall blade that if angled properly will zip that last centimeter off in about 10 minutes...

Let me know if need more info. Or having any more trouble... MARK

Yeah I just got back from Lowe's and we saw those there, and while at the store I tried fitting it together with a piece of 4in pipe and it seemed too small to be secure in the cast iron pipe in the floor. And even if it did fit down there it'd still be too tall for the toilet.

Do they sell that Lennox sawzall blade at your average lowes/home depot type of place?

So we went to the Lowe's, the home depot and the local plumbing supply place. None of them had a diamond lenox blade. The plumbing supply people weren't very helpful or friendly but sold us a carbide lenox blade when we asked for something that would cut the cast iron pipe. It looks like it might take about an hour and a half with the sawzall to cut through the pipe. Though if this works I guess it's worth it.

Yeah... lennox diamond sawzall blade not popular... YET! It will be in all stores soon enough. Really is cool.

Is this underground or can you see the pipe in the basement?

You can see it in the basement. If we cut it from the basement, how would we install a new pipe?

I've called about 60 stores in the chicago area and no one carries the lenox diamond blade. Most of the chains(Grainger, Fastenal, etc) can order it but none of their branches even have it in Illinois at all. Tried calling Lenox customer service to see if they could tell me about distributers in Chicago but they couldn't give me places that sold the diamond blade specifically.

If you cut the pipe in the basement you would attach a 4"cast iron x 4" pvc mission style clamp... see pic. This is a shielded clamp... which means has a big SS shield all around the clamp.. then have the bands.

Otherwise, can purchase a 4" 4 band (called husky) clamp all... see pic. I like these best 'cause have 4 bands to ensure no leaks!

These will probably be available at the home supply store... but if tired of running around just go to plumbing supply house and get it!

So... cut the cast iron, then want to install the clamp, purchse a 4" pvc elbow, 4" pvc pipe, 4" pvc closet flange, cement, primer, wax gasket (with horn) and new pair of 5/16" johhni bolts.

That should finish this nicely... or just cut with sawzall like you were doing... up to you... :)

Let me know if need more... Mark

Hi Tinorose... I get all excited when someone says nice things... ;)

Thanks.. and as stated earlier.. let me know if need anything else.

Also... want to be sure you know that once new flange (cast iron or PVC) installed, you will need to secure the flange through the flange, through the tile and into the floor!

May want to pick up a plastic anchor kit (has carbide drill bit in it for drilling through the tile)... see pic. Then would mark holes, drill holes, set anchors, and then set flange tight to floor.

Just be sure to align the new flange to accept the bolts on center.

Good luck... Mark

Well finally gave up after trying all day and buying blades and blades and flanges and flanges and visiting all the home supply stores about 7 times a day. We hired a plumber and paid $225 to just take care of it and install the new toilet. Im not sure how he did it but it took him about 1 minute and only a screwdriver to break off the cast iron pipe to the correct height. :(

I think if this hadn't been our only bathroom we could've done it but it was getting really old driving to mcdonalds every time we had to pee :rolleyes:

You have been astoundingly helpful though Mark. I now know more about flanges and the local sawzall blades market than I could have ever imagined. :p

I have the same issue as Alwaysbusy14 above, but I didn't see that it ever got resolved.

Problem: Closet flange is about 3/4 inch too high.

Facts: I am retiling. The old floor was a thick cultured marble, about twice the thickness of the tile I am using. Drain pipe is 4" PVC in a concrete slab. Flange is PVC cemented to the inside of the drain pipe. The flange extends to approximately 2.5" down inside the drain pipe. Thus, if I were to cut the old flange off at floor level, I would have a two-layered drain pipe to deal with--i.e. 4" drain pipe with a portion of the old flange glued to the inside wall of the drain pipe. So I understand from above that there is not a new flange I can slip inside the portion of the old flange. Concrete slab is flush against the outside wall of the drain pipe, so I can't merely slip in outside-mount 4" flange to the drain pipe. The only things I can think of, short of breaking out the slab, doing some digging, cutting the drain pipe below the surface, and starting anew are the following:

(a) Cut the old flange and drain pipe at slab level (I have to go that low to get beyond the bell shaped part of the flange) and chip out the concrete around the pipe enough to fit an outside mount flange over the drain pipe; or

(b) Use a hack saw or sawzall to cut the flange from the inside (but not the drain pipe) and then try and chisel out the old flange, after which I would replace it with an inside mount.

Are either of those options? Any others?

Hi John:

#1) There is not a flange available that will mount OVER the outside of a 4" pvc fitting....in this case, probably best to chop up the concrete and just cut out the old 4" elbow and flange altogether.

#2) The hacksaw and sawzall could also work... or not? If you try this you would also want to apply some heat to the hacksawed pipe you are trying to remove... a heat gun for paint removal would help... but do it without *BURNING* the pvc... fumes are quite hazardous! Be clear here though that if too aggressive, can *CRACK* the fitting and then you are back to chopping up the concrte to below the elbow and then replacing the elbow, entirely!

#3) You could also purchase a 4" REAMING TOOL... see pic. They should be available at any PLUMBING SUPPLY HOUSE. I know one supply house that will "RENT" them to you...

Here, you would cut the flange and bell shape out with a sawzall so you can see the wall of the fitting and the wall of the pipe... then REAM the pipe clean as in the picture below.

Then you can install a new 4" street flange...although you may need to cut 3/4" off the flange before installing it....that make sense??

All three of these options work... all depends on how you want to tackle it... ;)

Let me know what you decide here... MARK