I am just so shocked to hear of Anna's passing today. There was just something about her that I found riveting.

How very sad, her passing. She just lost her son and I believe just had a baby as well.

So very tragic to be so young. For some reason, I just was intrigued by her.

May she finally be at peace.

The billionaires son did it. An undetectable poison from a small plant found deep in the Amazonian rain forest. Causes complete loss of motor function and bowels. Next, your major organs begin to melt like ice cream in the heat. Then, your heart explodes like a grenade. A horrible death. To bad.

Funny magprob.

Except he died 2 years ago.

Unless you mean the billionaire's son son.

That would be Anna's Step grandson.

If we are taking votes as to why/how she died, my vote is some form of drug overdose.

Losing a son like that must have been so hard on her.

Now what of her 4 month old daughter?

Yeh, I know.

All of it just so sad. There was a custody battle going on for the little baby. Another man is claiming the little girl is his.

Her life, to me, was just plain sad.

Can't say I was surprised. She was a train wreck from the beginning. The sad part to be is the child left behind.

Personally, I think we need to look at that sycophant lawyer Howard Stern. He has been hanging around her for years, being her personal "bum" boy so to speak. Look at the facts:

After years of wrangling, she finally wins a ruling from the Supreme Court. She gets the old man's money.

Howard Stern is there when her son dies. Drugs are involved.

Anna is on a lot of meds to deal with the pain of the loss.

Howard claims the baby is his.

Anna is on a lot of meds to deal with the pain of the loss of her son.

Anna and Howard get married.

Anna is on a lot of meds to deal with the pain of the loss of her son.

Anna is found dead.

Since Howard was her husband, it stands to reason under U.S. Law, he would stand to inherit half her fortune.

Conspiracy theory anyone?:rolleyes:

I smell it Ruby, I smell the theory.

Her son that died did not die 2 years ago, but rather 4 months ago. He died in the hospital room that Anna was in after giving birth to her daughter. Anna woke up to him dead in her room.

Yes, she was a train wreck. And the news story about the multimillion dollar lawsuit against her and Trim Spa that came out the other day surely did not help.

Hmmmmmmmmm I wonder if there's something to all of this. And just where was he, the husband? She was a lone in her room. Oh this is all not good.

By the way, caught Anna's mom TODAY on one of those talk shows. I didn't see a great deal of it, but enough to just add to add to the sorrow of all of this. Everyone mourns differently, I do know that, but Anna's mom just lost Anna and a grandson only 4 months ago. I don't think I would have it together enough to let a camera crew in my home.

Hey J_9, hope you had a blast yesterday! :)

Well, you've got the Trim Spa problem. You've got the young guy claiming the baby is really his.

Trim Spa problem will probably be forced to be dropped or won't get too far. She is gone so nothing to hang their hats on. (Well, maybe a place -- that humongous rack of hers?? )

The young guy with a claim the baby is his? Well, if the baby wasn't Howard's, his marrying her still guarantees him half her money.

Do you think he convinced her to draw up a will? He was her lawyer after all. Hmmm. Who do you think he convinced her to leave her money to. Everything to her baby?? Hmmm.

CONSPIRACY I TELL YOU!! :p

Allheart, her mom has been trying to clamp onto the money train too. I haven't seen any interviews with her but they had been estranged for many, many years.

How stikin sad is that. Things Anna did raised an eyebrow or two, of course. But sometimes the reasons are not too hard to find, are they? All she probably ever wanted was to be loved.

I don't get the old man thing. I didn't keep up with it much and just felt that's for her to deal with within herself if her motives were for his money. I don't know. But she did always remind me of someone just needing to be loved. So Sad.

I thought she looked beautiful (when she wasn't half out of it) whether heavy or thin.

She didn't come across as a unkind person. Oh I don't know. Sorry for rambling.

Ramble away Allheart, ramble away.

I look at it this way. She came from a very poor background. For many years, she had it all. Although it was short, she lived a very good life. A life that most people only dream of.

I didn't know her so I don't know what kind of person she really was. But, she was too dependent upon drugs.

You have the inalienable right to feel sad over this tragic affair.

I guess I am a bit cynical. I just choose to reserve my sorrow for people that I know and love that I have lost.

She portrayed tragic vulnerability so well, I think, that it came across as genuine. Whether it was or not ultimately doesn't metter in light of what's happened. Being in the recovery industry, I have had an uncomfortable front row seat to a number of people (no one famous though) who went down just like this -- a kind of sad thing after another, seemingly stemming from poor judegements, especially concerning the people around them (scary people too) and what I concluded is this: there really is no way to tell if its just a long drawn-out, elaborate suicide or if its really someone who is just too weak or impaired to survive. I saw them do things that ensured they would compound the problem over and over but they couldn't or wouldn't acknowledge it when you spoke to them about it and I witnessed them turning down real help, fearing the stranger more than the ghoulish people around them. Sad. Each one haunted me for a time, especially the first one. What a lesson he was for me -- huge lesson. It put the line about don't ask for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee is a whole n'other perspective.

Very very very good points Ruby.

And she did have a great deal, but maybe not the things like she needed, like her Mom's love. Who knows?

But you are right. Should save a heavy heart for those closest to me.

I do have a thing though, watching drugs eat up a person. Boy, that really gets me. Just to see them disinergrate. I dispise drugs for what it does to a person. I could be wrong, but I think, with some people, the drugs just rob them of their ability to stop.

You did say I could ramble :D

She and Stearn were not legally married. DNA tests will have to confirm the father of the baby. In the mean time there will probably be a guardian, appointed by the court, to take care of the baby.

She portrayed tragic vulnerability so well, I think, that it came across as genuine. Whether it was or not ultimately doesn't metter in light of what's happened. I have had a front row seat to a number of people (no one famous though) who went down just like this -- a kind of sad thing after another, seemingly stemming from poor judegements, especially concerning the people around them (scary people too) and what I concluded is this: there really is no way to tell if its just a long drawn-out, elaborate suicide or if its really someone who is just too weak to survive. I saw them do things that ensured they would compound the problem over and over but they couldn't or wouldn't acknowledge it when you spoke to them about it and they turned down real help, fearing the stranger more than the ghoulish people around them. Sad. Each one haunted me for a time, especially the first one.

Val, that's it. That is just what grabbed me. She had a vulnerability about her. And yes tragic. But when she would smile, it was right through that vulnerability. And again, you are right, was it a long drawn out suicide (perhaps trying to call out for help as well) or was she weak? I just can't get that smile of hers out of my mind.

Allheart, you have chosen such a great name for yourself here. I have seen some of your other postings. You truly are all heart! :)

L.A. maybe her mother will be given custody of the baby since there isn't any question as to whether the baby was hers.:eek:

Are you 100% positive their marriage wasn't legal? I don't know the legalities of that kind of stuff outside of my own.

Thanks Ruby. I do have my bad days though... eek.

I wonder if she did have a will and maybe she did assign a guardian. I sure hope so.
Poor little baby.

Since the birth certificate listed Howard Stern as the father, I'm not a betting person, but I would bet baby Dannielynn goes to him, since he is legally declared the father.

I love the baby's name. I just found out today that she named it after the son that she lost.

Good point there J_9.

What a trainwreck it all is.

Well,

Was just watching CNN. Some unofficial reports (and sorry this is very unpleasant), is that
She may have chocked on her own vomit (sorry I know that's gross). How can that be??
They said the pulled her bedspread down and that's what they found.

Her lawyer was on and said that Howard is just grief stricken and the lawyer said that Howard is not too far from going over the edge.

My oh my.

Sorry this is all so grim. I need to watch a Happy story or something.

Her son that died did not die 2 years ago, but rather 4 months ago. He died in the hospital room that Anna was in after giving birth to her daughter. Anna woke up to him dead in her room.

Yes, her son did die only 4 months ago.

What I meant was her former husband (the billionaire), his son died about 2 years ago.

It is very easy to choke that way for people who sleep on their backs and are very impaired or "out" too much. Its inhaled with their breath in a flash and then its all over. Its more common than you might realise, especially among the addicts and alkies. My neighbors' youngest son (on antabuse and then drank) died that way when I was a kid.

Oh my. Guess it just was her time.

Sorry to ask this, is it automatic. Do they die right away?

Sorry, I have no idea... Janine??

Howard K. Stern was not legally married to Anna. Unless he can prove paternity, he is now out of the loop.

It is called aspiration. Immediate death all depends on the amount of aspiration. It also depends upon her level of consciousness when the aspiration occurred. So the autopsy will show how long she was alive after aspiration occurred if indeed that is what happened.

No, Howard K. Stern was not legally married, but he was listed as father on the birth certificate, so typically the child will most likely be awarded to him at least on a temporary basis.

Who knows for sure though?

Here is an article I just found. Brings up all the issues that we are discussing here. Definitely becoming a bit of an intriguing scenario that we will continue to hear updates about from the media for a long time to come.

Updated:2007-02-09 07:06:50
Death won't end legal battles
By Maria Puente, USA TODAY
USA Today
Anna Nicole Smith is dead, but the Anna Nicole Smith litigation will live on - and multiply.

Smith's long legal battle to gain some of the millions from her billionaire late husband's estate - a case that went to the Supreme Court and produced an important ruling in 2006 - will continue despite her sudden and mysterious death Thursday in Florida.

The man she battled for a decade, her husband's son, Pierce Marshall, died just a month after the Supreme Court ruled in Smith's favor.

"My reaction was shock and sadness and an overwhelming sense of how much tragedy has surrounded this case," says Kent Richland, Smith's Los Angeles-based appellate attorney, who argued her case at the Supreme Court. "I've never seen a case like this, with more unexpected events that you could imagine."

Smith's case, which seeks as much as $474 million from her husband's estate, is back before the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, Richland says, and there's no telling when it could issue a ruling. Now that Smith is dead, the parties will be Pierce Marshall's estate (his wife and sons) vs. Smith's estate (her new baby, her other relatives and possibly the man who may be her new husband).

"The money claims can continue to be pursued by her estate," says Erwin Chemerinsky, a law professor at Duke University. "Some claims don't survive death - such as defamation and invasion of privacy - but her case did not involve those."

But now there are additional, and complicated, legal questions arising from Smith's messy and tragic life:

--Did she leave a will, and if so, what does it say about division of assets and custody of the baby girl, Dannielynn, to whom she gave birth five months ago in the Bahamas? If there is no will, which state (or country) has probate authority?

--Was Smith legally married to her lawyer, Howard K. Stern, who says they had a "commitment ceremony"? If legally married, Stern would be a beneficiary of her estate.

--Who is the father of Dannielynn: Stern or Smith's ex-boyfriend, Larry Birkhead? In determining custody, does DNA trump a will? Smith had been resisting a DNA test; will that go forward now that she's dead?

"In the USA, there are jurisdictions where it's a conclusive presumption that the husband is the father, even if a DNA test goes the other way," says Christopher Cline, a partner in estate planning and administration at Holland & Knight in Portland, Ore.

--Where was Smith's official domicile - in a U.S. state or the Bahamas? The answer could have a bearing on both assets and custody.

"A case such as this, with these exact facts, are few and far between," says Joshua Forman, a partner in New York matrimonial firm Chemtob Moss Forman & Talbert. "It's so far beyond normal it's ridiculous."

Feverish speculation and what-if talk commenced immediately after the news of Smith's death broke.

"If the marriage (to Stern) is proven to be legal, that does not necessarily mean he gets custody (of the baby) if the paternity is someone else," CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin declared on the network Thursday evening.

"We want to make sure people realize this is not a law school hypothetical - the complexity is enormous."

And what about the TrimSpa litigation? The diet-products company, for which Smith was a spokeswoman, has been sued in a class-action lawsuit that claims its marketing is false or misleading. Last month, the Federal Trade Commission announced TrimSpa would pay $1.5 million to settle allegations that the company's claims about weight loss were untrue, although TrimSpa denies any wrongdoing.




Copyright 2007 USA TODAY, a division of Gannett Co. Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Oy, you can't write fiction this good. And what about the book and movie rights too?

OK, OK, Howard Stern did it. An undetectable poison from a small plant found deep in the Amazonian rain forest. Causes complete loss of motor function and bowels. Next, your major organs begin to melt like ice cream in the heat. Then, your heart explodes like a grenade. A horrible death. To bad.

Val, if you have any extra time, I think you and I should start doing the research and write our own "unauthorized" version. I smell biggg moneeeeeyyyyy to be made. Yee ha! :) Why should everyone else get rich off someone else's misery? I think it's my turn!

magprob, you can be our investigative advisor.

Val, if you have any extra time, I think you and I should start doing the research and write our own "unauthorized" version. I smell biggg moneeeeeyyyyy to be made. Yee ha! :) Why should everyone else get rich off of someone else's misery? I think it's my turn!
Hey thanks a bunch Ruby but shucks, actually :o...
I am probably a little too busy with writing my autobiography at the moment :eek: LOL

The Derby Dead Pool (http://www.derbydeadpool.co.uk/)

Haha magprob. There is a radio personality, Howie Carr, that does the same thing.

I will always remember the Anna Nicole of 1993. I was still single... and she was everything (physically) of a woman that I was dreaming about. ;)

It was sad that every time I'd seen her after that, she was always whacked out... and wrapped up in one thing or another... so I guess it should not be a surprise that it ultimately ended for her that way.

Still... I am sure she is in a happier place now. :)

Your so right Philly

You know what makes me mad. Is they said on CNN that all the people around her, instead of helping her get clean, they just propped her up and sent her out to make more money. She was their mealticket. Guess they all will have to get real jobs now.

I know ultimately she was the one who hurt herself, but when you get so down like that, I don't think you are able to pull yourself out by yourself. You need someone who truly cares to scare you straight.

But yes, she is at great peace now.

Personally, I think Courtney Love is the perfect woman, when it comes to cheezy trailer trash that is. Let's face it, she has real talent, she has her own band and she doesn't play a bad guitar. I like that in a women. Anna Nicole Smith reminded me too much of Jane Mansfield... washed up fast. Granted, she had a set like bumper guards on a 58 cadillac, but I am more interested in the mind. That is why I like Courtney Love.

LOL Never heard it referred that way "bumper guards".

I like Courtney's spunk as well. Courntey seems a bit stronger a person than Anna and I 've seen interviews where Courntey seemed sober, not sure if I've ever seen Anna that way.

I read that too - It seems Courtney Love has "cleaned up" and is taking a more professional approach to her career. I guess time will tell.

I have a big announcement to make and I wanted to make it here before CNN arrives. Ready? OK, I, magprob, am the father of Anna Nicole Smiths child.

What a 2 timer!

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Courtney-Love---Live-Through-This-Poster-C10007120.jpeg

I have only one word to describe that, HOT!:eek:

Sorry - think you have enough on your hands "Daddy"

Big Daddy gots it.

Aaw but you can still look :) she does look hot there doesn't she :)

I think Courtny is a very attractive lady but, anyone that is slobbering stoned and drunk all of the time can be quite ugly.
I don't mean to make light of Anna Nicholes death but let's face it, it's what she chose for herself. No one could stop it. I really think she killed herself-whether she meant it or not.

No, I know you don't. But if we all think about it, you can't help but look back and see how she steadily progressed this way.

But I still say the drugs killed her (if that's what did it). I know she took them freely, but sometimes those drugs just grab a hold of a person and will not let them go. Their free will is no longer theirs.

I just gave up smoking (3 weeks into it) and it is a BEAR!! Boy that nicotine is just heck trying to fight against. I can't imagine what it feels like to be addicted to those other drugs.

I watch the show intervention a lot. It's about people addicted to drugs and their families do an interventiion. For most, it is honest life or death. But if it weren't for their families, afraid they would end up like Ana as well. If that's what she died from. They were saying earlier this week, she had flu like symptoms. Who knows.

There's a lesson in here somewhere.

I got news Allheart... apart from smack, all the druggies and alkies I've known think losing the nicotine monkey is tough, as tough as it comes.

Thanks Val.

And I love monkeys but not this one!! But hey, it's a challenge and I will be darn if I give in to those nicotine people who make it even harder for all of us.!

Plus I smell so much better - Grouchy but with a much nicer scent :) LOL

Val - smack is herorine isn't it? That's what a lot of people on the show are hooked on. That and crack cocaine. Boy that stuff gets them and grabs them and just won't let go.
They get so sick if they don't have it ! Just an awful mess. Who invented those damn drugs anyway??

Yeah, I wasn't kidding or exaggerating when I said on Laura's smoking thread yous guys are in for the fight of your life but its winable and you are!

Thanks Val - I really mean it. Your words go really far, even after I shut the computer down. I just tell myself... mush mush mush :)

Thanks Val - I really mean it. Your words go really far, even after I shut the computer down. I just tell myself...mush mush mush :)
When I was in early sobriety I had my A days and my B days...

A days were, well, when I was being an A, you know? :rolleyes:

B days were where I just didn't have much left to do anything but just be. :(

I did a lot of mushing too. And was told again and again "Its fifty miles into the woods so therefore its fifty miles out. Don't turn back, don't even stand still." :eek:

I would have loved to have helped Anna or find her someone who could but I doubt she would have trusted me enough to allow it. Hard to believe there is nothing up the sleeve in those circumstances and I understand that, almost died of that myself. I named it "terminal uniqueness" from hearing myself say one too many times, "but you just don't understand....." Fortunately I ran off all my enablers, since there wasn't really anything left in it for them.

I so love it. Thanks Val. You are right.. 50 miles in way too far to turn back now..

Today is an A day :)

Thanks again.

I cannot say I am surprised, shocked, or stunned to hear of Anna Nicole's death. She was a time bomb waiting to explode. Famous for nothing worth more than 2 cents. When she started in on how she was channeling Marilyn Monroe, I knew she was not long for the world. But she does provide a good example for life on the fast track. Hopefully the ones who thought she was so hot will learn that she was not.

When I was in early sobriety I had my A days and my B days...

A days were, well, when I was being an A, ya know? :rolleyes:

B days were where I just didn't have much left to do anything but just be. :(

I did a lot of mushing too. And was told again and again "Its fifty miles into the woods so therefore its fifty miles out. Don't turn back, don't even stand still." :eek:

I would have loved to have helped Anna or find her someone who could but I doubt she would have trusted me enough to allow it. Hard to believe there is nothing up the sleeve in those circumstances and I understand that, almost died of that myself. I named it "terminal uniqueness" from hearing myself say one too many times, "but you just don't understand....." Fortunately I ran off all my enablers, since there wasn't really anything left in it for them.


Val, if she couldn't or wouldn't hear you, then she really would never have got better. You are right too, she was surrounded by enablers. But that's an easy role to fall in as well.
And perhaps they did care for her, they just were playing the role they fell into.

I cannot say I am surprised, shocked, or stunned to hear of Anna Nicole's death. She was a time bomb waiting to explode. Famous for nothing worth more than 2 cents. When she started in on how she was channeling Marilyn Monroe, I knew she was not long for the world. But she does provide a good example for life on the fast track. Hopefully the ones who thought she was so hot will learn that she was not.

shygrneyzs,

No, those that thought she was hot, probably still will, as that is all they went by was her looks anyway. Not the suffering she was doing inside.

True, Allheart. Her hanger-on'ers, her leeches, and bloodsuckers. Much like Elvis who had a vast number of people around but no one who would step in and make an effort to stop him.

Exactly what I thought. Elvis ran through my mind as well. Almost the same darn thing happened.

But I think I am guilty of some enabling myself. There is a girl I work with, who has a bit of a drinking problem and I find myself trying to shield her. But I do tell her the truth, but then I am also at other times very soft with her. It really is hard. I love her to pieces and don't want her to hurt, thankfully there are others who just zoom in on her and do the right thing and not coddle her.

I am the princess of enablers! Lol. I used to be the queen of enablers but since the divorce my status has been demoted. I am working on ditching the crown all together but do end up in that icky spot, especially with a neighbor of mine who has mental disabilities. Always getting conned into helping her because no one else will and I live right next to her so it is difficult. Although I have said no more often than yes in the past six months. Still... I do not like being in that situation.

I just want to add that it was very shocking to hear about her death. So young. So much happening in her life, it was killing her. Especially the death of her son.

I do believe she is resting in peace.

The only soul that I am worried about and concerned about is her baby that is left in this world without any true parent to go to. People are coming out of the wood work to claim they are the father of this baby.

It is not fair to the baby and the baby is the real victim in all this mess.

The baby needs lots of our prayers.

Joe

The baby needs lots of our prayers.
I agree Joe, what a load on that kid. No child should have to bear that so hopefully it dies down before she grows old enough to realise.

Yes Joe,

We will keep the little baby in our prayers. I do have faith she will grow up to be a fine young lady. Don't know why, I just have a feeling that she will be okay. God will watch over her.