IN a recent car accident,the police were called to the scene.They took no pictures and no statement from the driver of the car,who was the victim. They also didn't call a ambulance. I took picture's and went to the Police station to obtain a copy of the report. In the report it says that there are U- Turn marks... So ,I went back to the scene and took pictures of the entire Highway, there were NO such marks! I later returned to the police station to show them the pictures I had taken, and the Police Sargent informed me that he and another office had gone back out to the scene to try and recreate the U-Turn, and stated that they left marks! I went back to the scene and took pictures again and yes they did leave marks. Now they are trying to say that the marks were already there. Isn't this tampering w/ a crime scene or evidence ? And what about them not taking the statement or taking pictures or calling a ambulance ? What can I do ?

How long after the accident happened did you take the pictures? Tire marks, skids marks can be obliterated on a busy highway in a matter of hours from the traffic.

You are saying the police have an agenda and that is why they tampered with evidence, but what would they have to gain by doing this tampering?

Anyone at an accident scene has to be pretty diligent in their own regard. Cell phones at an accident scene exactly when it happened, or minutes after, are tantamount to recording evidence.

You don't say which party you were in all of this; which car were you driving at the time; were you actually involved in the accident because you don't say.

It isn't a crime scene, that means someone was murdered, stabbed to death, it was only a car accident.

So... Ronney, what is missing here? What are you not telling us? Was this a drive by shooting or something?

Tick

What is you stake in this accident? Are you the victim, what exactly happened in this accident?

Police generally don't take pictures of accident scenes. They will only call for an ambulance if there is evidence or complaint of physical trauma. So I don't see any problems in not doing either.

However, they should have taken statements.

And the question of what your interest is pertinent.

Police don't take photos of accidents, almost never unless there is a death. I have investigated many, and all we do is write up what people said, what we saw and make a rough drawing of it.

If we issue a ticket, then we state that.

No it is not tampering with evidence, since it is a matter of opinion on what they saw. At worst it is poor police work.

It was my daughter who was the victim... The girl who hit her Stalked her that day and then purposely rammed her and we have witness's to both incidents . The problem is in this small hick town our police will try to cover for any person who is enlisted in the military. This girl who hit my daughter also had alcohol on her breath , as the police report states! She gave her statement and the Police didn't bother to get a statement from my daughter or call her an ambulance the damage done to her car is in excess of 6000.00 dollars, the damage to the other girls car is very minimal. Yet the Police are trying to say that it was my daughters fault... even though we have a witness and the witness corroborates what my daughter is saying... the witness even gave a statement! But it has been ignored. This girl stalked her... chased her threw town in speeds of excess of 90 miles per hr... and then did a pit maneuver,and the damage reflects this! There is very little traffic on that hwy at 1 am and there was no precipitation over night and there were NO tread marks on that hwy when I went there and took pic's, Not even a mark from what should have been her( the other driver )... hitting the breaks... if her story is true! There is also another witness to the stalking that took place earlier that eve. This girl also has several owi's on her record... yet she was given a courtesy ride home that night and her car was allowed to stay at the road side... my daughter was not allowed to park her car on the side of the road even though it had the most damage!! TIRED OF MILITARY PEOPLE BEING GIVEN BREAKS FOR THEIR BAD BEHAVIOR!! And I believe that it is Tampering with evidence when an office goes and puts something in the scene that wasn't there!!

Again, was your daughter injured? Did she request an ambulance?

So what do you want to do about this? Have you filed a claim with the other driver's insurance carrier?

ScottGem, The police office did ask her if her leg was OK, as the door of her car was in her lap,she responded by saying that her leg was fine but her head hurt! I had to take her to the hospital the next day ,as she has a large bump to the left side of her head on the temple.. cat scan and so on.. conclusion... concussion! And Doesn't the stalking indicate premeditation... which would be a CRIME!! Nothing has been filed as of yet because the police didn't issue any citations! They are just saying that the NONE EXISTENT MARKS IN THE ROAD corroborates the other girls story ! Which is that my daughter did a U-Turn in front of her. Please keep in mind that we do have witness's the person who was in the car with my daughter and the other person who witnessed the stalking! Also have pic's of hwy W no marks and pics of hwy after the police went back out there and made marks!

First, the police were called to investigate an accident. Was anything said at the time that this was a case of assault? Has your daughter gone to the police or local prosecutor and sought to press charges?

What I'm not sure you understand is that there is a difference between criminal activity and a traffic accident. When the police arrived did your daughter go to them and state that this was a case of assault? If so, then they should have called in a detective to investigate. So I suspect the police investigated a traffic accident.

As for them making tire marks. Yes that could be considered tampering IF the new marks masked any previous marks. But the police report stated there were no marks at the time of the accident. Ergo, no tampering.


And you didn't answer all my questions. Especially the main one of what do you want to do? If you answer those, we can suggest ways to proceed.

ScottGem, No the police don't know anything, because they did not take my daughters statement. Yes we have gone to the police and told them everything and provided them with photo's and I will also be providing them with notarized statements from the passenger and the person who witnessed the stalking and my daughter... because of yet they still have not taken a statement from my daughter, nor have they been interested in her being stalked... FYI this gal who hit her has a had to be removed by the police on many occasions from stalking others!! What I want out of this is for my daughters car to be replaced and her medical paid and YES I WANT THAT GIRL IN JAIL!!

OK, Then #1 stop accusing the police of tampering, or any sort of wrongdoing. That is not going to get you anywhere. Next, have you filed a claim with the other driver's insurance company (I asked you that before and you never answered, for us to help you have to provide us with info). She also needs to notify her carrier. If the other driver's carrier denies the claim (as is likely), then her carrier will pay for repairs and medical and then go after the other carrier for reimbursement.

Don't waste time notarizing the witness statements. That will mean nothing at this point in time.

If the police will not investigate or pursue the case, then you go to the local DA or prosecutor. You might consult your own attorney first for advice on how to present the case. But the case you are presenting is one of Assault and Assault with a deadly weapon (a car can be considered a deadly weapon). Forget the stalking, except as far as proving that ramming your daughter's car was deliberate.

If the prosecutor declines to prosecute (and you have to prepare yourself for that), then you have to file a civil suit against the other driver.

Stalking means nothing unless there is a Restraining Order in place for this person to stay away from your daughter.

Stalking means nothing unless there is a Restraining Order in place for this person to stay away from your daughter.

Not necessarily true. Many places now have anti-stalking laws. These laws can be used to punish stalkers. However, there is a real assault in this case (at least allegedly). And that would be the best charge pursued.

Please stop typing in caps which is the same as screaming at us.

I'm a liability investigator. An assault is a criminal matter; an arrest is a civil matter. I do both.

Car #2 cannot chase car #1 at o90 miles an hour UNLESS car #1 is driving 90 miles an hour. A prudent person would stop and pull over and let car #2 pass or drive directly to a Police Station or drive to a public place, jump and, run into an establishment and ask someone to call the Police. Did you daughter call for assistance on a cell phone prior to the accident?

And in MY area the Police don't take statements from both (or all) parties. They investigate until they determine the cause of the accident and then the investigation is over.

If you want her medical bills paid that's not complicated (depending on where you live). Your daughter's no fault (again, depending on where you live) pays her medical bills. The cause and other driver are immaterial.

Her car was totaled? Her insurance company pays for that and then sues the other person's insurance company.

What exactly is it that you want? The other driver arrested?

Then stop going to the Police and contact the DA in your area.

Hi JKT, as much as I know about the laws in the US, I know you and your advice is the best I have heard. I am glad you got into this thread. It is good to see you back.

Tick

ScottGem ,We provided, our insurance, with copies of everything. And the only information we have on the other girl is the name of her insurer. For which I have not gone there yet, because I'm unsure of how to proceed. Because the police didn't do their job in the first place. There were no citations issued no statement from my daughter was taken, and in the.. What the Police Captain called a brief police report, as it is not complete. The statement they took from the passenger in my daughters car... is beyond brief!! It seems as I said the only statement they were interested in was the driver who committed the act.

OH SCOTT... I would like to thank you , I need some one to keep me level.. and not going to jail myself.. lol Because... As a Mother... you can't even imagine what I want to do!! THANK YOU :)

Since you have filed a claim with your insurer, just make sure they have the other driver's policy info.

But as Judy and I have said, if you want to pursue criminal charges talk to the DA.

But Judy raises a valid point. If someone was chasing me at high speed, I would head for a police station or someplace with a lot of people. That your daughter didn't do so may work against her.

But Judy raises a valid point. If someone was chasing me at high speed, I would head for a police station or someplace with a lot of people. That your daughter didn't do so may work against her.

Well, dah, yes, that could be a possibility, why didn't she try to protect herself from this invasion?

Tick

Guy's , she was driving home she was on the outskirts of town and was trying to double back in town to get help ! And by the way my daughter wasn't driving at 90 until the other girl came up on the side of her and tried to push her off the road, So stopping isn't always the answer and this was stated by the passenger in my daughters car. My daughter drives an Aveo, the other girl drives a /Grand AM ! Are you all really trying to tell me that she ( my daughter) did wrong by trying to stay away from her. And lets not forget the witness to all of this. There is nothing alleged about what I'm saying! Just so we have a clear understanding I have not asked my daughter to give me any details... as I don't want people to think or assume that I'm twisting things..! The only people that I have gotten information from on this is what the police had and what my daughters 2 witness's have told me!

Are you all really trying to tell me that she ( my daughter) did wrong by trying to stay away from her.

No, we are trying to tell you what it can look like to others based on what you told us. What questions might be asked so you can prepare answers.

Please understand, that again, that real life is nothing like TV police shows, no they will not normally expect or suspect attacking with a car, esp if after the accident the other party did not attack the other person.

And the police report while it can be part of the civil issues is not always the defining factor. As noted manypeople will hire a private accident investigator to go over all the evidence and do a report.

A police officer often has to rush though a accident report, will need to get all statements made, all drawings done before the wreckers get there. Also each of the people in the accident are free to go in and ask to include a statement with the police report as to their side of the story. Many police officers if it is unclear who did what, just don't write any tickets, They just let each side tell their story in civil court over damages.

Guy's , she was driving home she was on the outskirts of town and was trying to double back in town to get help ! And by the way my daughter wasn't driving at 90 until the other girl came up on the side of her and tried to push her off the road, So stopping isn't always the answer and this was stated by the passenger in my daughters car. My daughter drives an Aveo, the other girl drives a /Grand AM ! Are you all really trying to tell me that she ( my daughter) did wrong by trying to stay away from her. And lets not forget the witness to all of this. There is nothing alleged about what I'm saying! Just so we have a clear understanding I have not asked my daughter to give me any details ... as I don't want people to think or assume that I'm twisting things ....!!The only people that I have gotten information from on this is what the police had and what my daughters 2 witness's have told me!


No, I'm trying to tell you that I actually work on the road investigating accident cases. I'm telling you what I do, what questions I ask, what I look for - and why.

It's all been said BUT who are the witnesses? In your daughter's car? You say she had a passenger but you also say witnesses, meaning more than one. Totally unknown to your daughter, unbiased, but came forward to give their versions of the accident? If they were in your daughter's car, no one had a cell phone? I would ask your daughter for the details, by the way.

And, again, I've investigated these accidents. The prudent thing to do when someone tries to push you off the road is to pull over. You don't drive 90 (especially, as you seem to think) if the other person has a faster car. You don't make a screaming U-turn.

I don't understand the part about payment of your daughter's medical bills - where is no fault in this? That's paid by HER company, not the other driver. If the other driver couldn't be found, it wouldn't matter. Her bills would be paid. Same with repairs to her car.

What were your daughter's injuries?

And, yes. I agree with FrChuck. Hire an investigator.

I also have read and re-read this thread. Where/how is there Police tampering? I can see that you believe the Police did not do their job, but where is the tampering involved?

I am being told that we can salvage my daughters car. How is this legal if we intend on suing and I'm more that certain we will win our case, where my daughter could receive the cost of damages to repair it or replace it. I am unclear as to what our legal rights are with the damaged car and receiving any monies for it. I live in Wisconsin!
*As of now the damage estimate out weighs the car's resale value.

Guy's , she was driving home she was on the outskirts of town and was trying to double back in town to get help ! And by the way my daughter wasn't driving at 90 until the other girl came up on the side of her and tried to push her off the road, So stopping isn't always the answer and this was stated by the passenger in my daughters car. My daughter drives an Aveo, the other girl drives a /Grand AM ! Are you all really trying to tell me that she ( my daughter) did wrong by trying to stay away from her. And lets not forget the witness to all of this. There is nothing alleged about what I'm saying! Just so we have a clear understanding I have not asked my daughter to give me any details ... as I don't want people to think or assume that I'm twisting things ....!!The only people that I have gotten information from on this is what the police had and what my daughters 2 witness's have told me!

Ronney, what type of 'beef' did this other woman have with your daughter; you mentioned stalking and as far as I can understand, if this other woman was trying to push her off the road, she meant business, as in trying to kill her. Is your daughter expecting more trouble from this woman? I am wondering about some kind of restraining order, but you don't appear to know her name, other then she is military. If she is military, then this would mean serious trouble for her if the military ever found out about her escapades. You may take that into consideration. Is this woman in the Army and is stationed near your town?

I think you should ask your daughter to give you details just so you can do damage control in case something like this comes up again.

Tick

tickle , My daughter just got back to town from college in AZ. She went out to meet up with friends and she gave a ride to one of the kid's she knew. Apparently from what the young man is telling me he has had to have this gal removed from his property many times.I do know what her name is know her very well and she is National Guard out of Hayward WI. I chose not to use her name here.

I chose not to use her name here.
We wouldn't let you even if you chose to.

I was also going to mention talking to her commander, but National Guard is different from regular military.


I am being told that we can salvage my daughters car. How is this legal if we intend on suing and I'm more that certain we will win our case, where my daughter could receive the cost of damages to repair it or replace it. I am unclear as to what our legal rights are with the damaged car and receiving any monies for it. I live in Wisconsin!
*As of now the damage estimate out weighs the car's resale value.

Who is telling you this? If you opt for repair rather than just getting a check for the book value, that doesn't affect, in the slightest any legal action you take against the other driver.

tickle , My daughter just got back to town from college in AZ. She went out to meet up with friends and she gave a ride to one of the kid's she knew. Apparently from what the young man is telling me he has had to have this gal removed from his property many times.I do know what her name is know her very well and she is National Guard out of Hayward WI. I chose not to use her name here.

We don't use any personal information here, nor do we ask for it. We discourage even e mail addresses.

AGAIN - what were your daughter's injuries and why is her insurance company not taking care of repairing her car?

I will disagree with my colleague, Scott (which almost never happens). If your daughter's story is somehow flawed and you/your daughter cause a problem with the other person's National Guard service you could end up getting sued.

How old is your daughter? If you mentioned her age, I missed it.

And my question about the witnesses?

I see the OP choosing which questions to answer and which not to answer which always raises red flags with me. Keep in mind, I do this for a living - I know when someone is avoiding answering.

JudyKayTee: I'm not trying to hide anything! My daughter just turned 22 and only has liability coverage on her car! Also doesn't a passenger in my daughters car imply that person is also a witness. 1 witness was the passenger , 1 witness was an employee of an establishment here in town and that person has come forward and offered a statement related to the stalking prior to the so called accident. My daughters injuries were to the head and neck collar and ankle area on left side, her passenger has a chest contusion.And Yes I know my Daughters insurance will take care of her medical and her passengers , however this was done on purpose with intentions of hurting 1 if not both in my daughters car. The Girl should be made to pay for all damages and she should go to jail for a long time!!

JAlso doesn't a passenger in my daughters car imply that person is also a witness.

It also implies bias.

Have you gone to the prosecutor yet? That's the bottom line. We've given you all the advice we can unless you have new facts or questions. But your next move is to take this to the local prosecutor's office to press assault charges.

JudyKayTee: I'm not trying to hide anything !! My daughter just turned 22 and only has liability coverage on her car! Also doesn't a passenger in my daughters car imply that person is also a witness. 1 witness was the passenger , 1 witness was an employee of an establishment here in town and that person has come forward and offered a statement related to the stalking prior to the so called accident. My daughters injuries were to the head and neck collar and ankle area on left side, her passenger has a chest contusion.And Yes I know my Daughters insurance will take care of her medical and her passengers , however this was done on purpose with intentions of hurting 1 if not both in my daughters car. The Girl should be made to pay for all damages and she should go to jail for a long time !!!


If all of this had been clear to me I wouldn't have asked the queston(s) multiple times. No, witnesses doesn't "implicate" that one person was a passenger and the other person was an unrelated eye witness.

And, again, insurance doesn't require the other driver to pay all damages - that's what insurance is for.

And you are again confusing the criminal end (jail time) and the civil end (personal injury and damage to the car).

If your daughter has injuries which rise to the threshold she should be speaking to an Attorney - and the sooner the better. Let the Attorney play "let's make a deal" with the Defendant and see what he/she can do. Of course, the passenger has to sue your daughter and the other driver - she cannot only sue one for her injuries.

Speaking as an investigator a witness to "stalking" prior to the "so-called" accident (your quotes) is meaningless in the CIVIL end of things.

Hire an investigator, get some legwork done, then take that report to the DA. I suspect the Police are not going to listen to you. They may listen to your daughter.

Have you talked to her about the accident yet or just the witnesses and the Police?

And the cell phone question?

ScottGem: This passenger of my daughters also has had to have this particular girl removed from his private property 2 or 3 times now in the last 2 months... she is clearly out of control. I am scaled to see the DA tomorrow and I intend on bring up her prior record. Hope her prior record won't be considered to be biased.
The other witness is a witness to her behavior just prior to the, again.. so called accident.

Sorry I missed that 1... My daughter doesn't have a cell phone... Because I'm one of those parents that refuse to pay for it!. :)

Oh and I do understand that I have 2 diff. things going on here being 1 civil 1 criminal.. I would like to see both pressued.

The place that gave the estimate on the damages has told me I can salvage it !The trade in value of the car is only about 3000.00. The Damage was 6600.00. I would love to show these pic's they show perfect pit maneuver damage at about 60 miles per hr. It's hard to miss that it was done on purpose!

Stop trying to convince us you have a case. We aren't the ones you need to convince. We've already acknowledged there is enough to bring it to a prosecutor. So do it!

The place that gave the estimate on the damages has told me I can salvage it !The trade in value of the car is only bout 3000.00. The Damage was 6600.00. I would love to show these pic's they show perfect pit maneuver damage at bout 60 miles per hr. ! It's hard to miss that it was done on purpose!

What is 'pit maneuver' and how do you determine it was done at 60 miles per hr? Sorry, just curious.

Tick

I don't know but this is info I could certainly use in MY business. I have to call in experts.

Hopefully OP will come back and tell us how this all worked out.

I agree with the cell phone rule. I'm just surprised the passenger didn't have one, either. I won't pay for a cell phone but my stepkids leave the house they take mine in case of an emergency.

I'm a little confused where this is taking place. OP has an appointment with DA tomorrow - which is a US Federal holiday -?