My plumbing question is that I recently (few months ago), had a 2nd floor bathroom added, as well as the plumbing to the kitchen redone. Also had the water line to the house replaced to the house with copper (it was so old it was galvanized iron). The plumber added a hot water return for the 2nd floor bathroom, so that we wouldn't have to wait to get hot water.

The problem is that the two sinks and shower in the new 2nd floor bathroom have a drop in water pressure. Unscrewing the filter on the faucet (Grohe) and inspecting shows a build up of a white/slightly bluish crystal like material. I keep cleaning it off, but it keeps coming back. I don't even know how to do this with the shower, and the water pressure seems to be getting less and less. Also the water suddenly starts going cold, like the hot water limiter in the shower over reacts and limits the hot water way too much. Can this be due to the same problem? Definitely not because we are running out of hot water because it can be first thing in the morning.

Any idea? Thanks so much in advance for any help or information.

-Jamie

Hi Jamie,

Without being there to check it sounds like the dip tube in your water heater has gone bad and is deteriorating. The dip tube is a plastic tube the sets directly under the cold water inlet. Its function is to direct cold water to the bottom of the tank so it won't mix with the hot water on top.
If this 'white/slightly bluish crystal like material" is hard and you can't crumble it between your fingers it's not mineral build up but plastic from a dip tube.
Your options are to, 1) replace the heater and flush out the hot water lines and faucets **or** 2) replace the dip tube and flush out both the heater and supply lines including the faucets. Your choice. Good luck, Tom

Hi Jamie,

Without being there to check it sounds like the dip tube in your water heater has gone bad and is deteriorating. The dip tube is a plastic tube the sets directly under the cold water inlet. Its function is to direct cold water to the bottom of the tank so it won't mix with the hot water on top.
If this 'white/slightly bluish crystal like material" is hard and you can't crumble it between your fingers it's not mineral build up but plastic from a dip tube.
Your options are to, 1) replace the heater and flush out the hot water lines and faucets **or** 2) replace the dip tube and flush out both the heater and supply lines including the faucets. Your choice. Good luck, Tom

The water heater is only a year old... and it seems like the only place we are having trouble are the two twin sinks on the 2nd floor. The shower seems to have the problem with the scald protector, not a build up, because I took the rain shower head off to inspect it. I ran it without the shower head and pressure was still low until I turned it to cold and it kicked in. Turning it to warm, it seems to not put out much hot water and lowers the cold water pressure. I ran some water out of the bottom of the water heater (which is again, only 1 year old), and it seemed pretty clear. No other sink or shower has a problem. So is there anything that the hot water return does that could be causing the problem? Maybe the sinks and shower are two different problems? On that the scald protector "slipped" or something and is over inhibiting the hot water, and the sinks... I don't know. The material is not hard... the white/slightly bluish crystal like material crumbles down pretty easily.

Any help, greatly appreciated! Want to try to figure out as much as I can before I call in the plumber.

If it crumbles then it's not a dip tube. Let's attempt to narrow it down. Clean the aerator screen and run nothing but hot water out of the faucet. Now check the screens for build up. Do the same with cold water. Where's the build up coming from, hot or cold? I believe you have two problems. Is the shower valve a Grohe also? Can you mshut the water off and open it ip to check the skald-guard? Regards, Tom

If it crumbles then it's not a dip tube. Let's attempt to narrow it down. Clean the aerator screen and run nothing but hot water out of the faucet. Now check the screens for build up. Do the same with cold water. Where's the build up coming from, hot or cold? I believe you have two problems. Is the shower valve a Grohe also? Can you mshut the water off and open it ip to check the skald-guard? Regards, Tom


OK. I tried what you said, and it seems that it is the hot water that is the problem fouling up the aerator screens. Is it possible anything from the old water heater we replaced (last year) has something left in the pipes? You would think it would eventually go away though... The shower valve is also a Grohe. I have never done that to check the scald guard... is it difficult? Or should I just call in the plumber that installed it?

Earlier you said; The plumber added a hot water return for the 2nd floor bathroom, so that we wouldn't have to wait to get hot water.
Where did he connect to the water heater to get the hot water for upstairs and if he did what you said and ran a return lin to the water heater, where did he connect the return line. If he connected the return line to the bottom of the heater where the drain valve is, and he didn't use a check valve it is possible that when you run hot water upstairs it is taking some of the water our of the bottom of the heater where any sludge would be built up in a one year old heater. If you think this is the case then have the plumber add a check valve in the return line.

If this post helps you out please let me know.

Hi. Thanks for the input. The return line for the water heater is attached to the bottom of the water heater, putting the line between the valve at the bottom of the water heater and the water heater. Not sure what a check valve is... but it looks like it is just piping. So maybe I need a check valve... maybe I can post a photo of what it looks like and you could tell me if there is a check valve. By the way, when I run the valve at the bottom of the water heater into a pail, I do notice that if I slowly pour the water out, at the bottom are those same bluish/white crystal material that are fouling up the 2nd floor faucets connected to the hot water return. What the heck is that stuff??

Earlier you said; The plumber added a hot water return for the 2nd floor bathroom, so that we wouldn't have to wait to get hot water.
Where did he connect to the water heater to get the hot water for upstairs and if he did what you said and ran a return lin to the water heater, where did he connect the return line. If he connected the return line to the bottom of the heater where the drain valve is, and he didn't use a check valve it is possible that when you run hot water upstairs it is taking some of the water our of the bottom of the heater where any sludge would be built up in a one year old heater. If you think this is the case then have the plumber add a check valve in the return line.

If this post helps you out please let me know.

I think Letmetellu nailed it with the return line. Good work! A check valve's needed. Another theory could be that the plumber mistakenly installed the recirculating pump backwards and you're pulling off the bottom of the tank instead of the top. While this isn't very likely it would explain the trash you're getting in the hot water lines. Regards, Tom

Hi. Thanks for the input. The return line for the water heater is attached to the bottom of the water heater, putting the line between the valve at the the bottom of the water heater and the water heater. Not sure what a check valve is...but it looks like it is just piping. So maybe I need a check valve...maybe I can post a photo of what it looks like and you could tell me if there is a check valve. By the way, when I run the valve at the bottom of the water heater into a pail, I do notice that if I slowly pour the water out, at the bottom are those same bluish/white crystal material that are fouling up the 2nd floor faucets connected to the hot water return. What the heck is that stuff???


PrattCourt Hello I don't know who you are listening to Me or to Speedball. So I will just tell you what I have as an idea about your problem.

I don't know if you are using a pump or a gravity flow hot water system but on either one you should have a check valve. This is a valve that lets water flow one direction but not the other. In your case you would want it to flow towards the water heater, therefore stoping any water and trash from flowing out of the water heater and into the hot water line when the pressure is reduces by you turning on a faucet upstairs.
If you have a check valve (It will be a brass fitting about two inches long and it should be in the return line before it gets to the drain valve of the water heater. If you have one it should have an arrow on it to show which way the water is going to flow, in your case the arrow should point toward the water heater. If you don't have one you should get one installed even if this is not the cause of your problem upstairs.

You ask what this stuff is, and that depends on what part of the country you are in. Some parts of the country is is sodium and others it is lime stone in other areas it could be anything.

Good Luck and I hope I have not confused you.

PrattCourt Hello I don't know who you are listening to Me or to Speedball. So I will just tell you what I have as an idea about your problem.

I don't know if you are using a pump or a gravity flow hot water system but on either one you should have a check valve. This is a valve that lets water flow one direction but not the other. In your case you would want it to flow towards the water heater, therefore stoping any water and trash from flowing out of the water heater and into the hot water line when the pressure is reduces by you turning on a faucet upstairs.
If you have a check valve (It will be a brass fitting about two inches long and it should be in the return line before it gets to the drain valve of the water heater. If you have one it should have an arrow on it to show which way the water is going to flow, in your case the arrow should point toward the water heater. If you don't have one you should get one installed even if this is not the cause of your problem upstairs.

You ask what this stuff is, and that depends on what part of the country you are in. Some parts of the country is is sodium and others it is lime stone in other areas it could be anything.

Good Luck and I hope I have not confused you.

Well, listening to you both, really. I don't have a pump, so it is a gravity flow hot water system. I will look more carefully, but don't think I have a check valve. But do I understand this right: the water from the hot water return line should go towards the hot water heater (the bottom valve area)? I guess for some reason I thought that would flow out from the hot water heater. The bluish/white crystal junk is a lot heavier than water, and feels almost greasy when touched and rubbed between fingers. Any place that can figure out what it is?

"The material is not hard...the white/slightly bluish crystal like material crumbles down pretty easily. The bluish/white crystal junk is alot heavier than water, and feels almost greasy when touched and rubbed between fingers. Any place that can figure out what it is?"

Calcium carbonate comes to mind. Regards, Tom

You guyes are good! I live in northern NJ and had this exact problem last week. We are doing a major addition and the plumber hooked up the tub and two sinks in the 3rd floor master bath. After he left, we had no water from the kitchen sink or dishwasher and the temperature control in the shower no longer worked correctly. Further investigation showed that the inlets were clogged with the same whtish-blue stuff described by PrattCourt. Drawing water from the 3rd floor tub quickly clogged the aerator. When I took it off and filled the tub, the bottom was litteraly covered with this stuff. I managed to trace it to the hot water system but neither I nor the plumber (who came back to clean the kitchen sink and dishwasher inlets) could figure out how it got there and I have been going nuts trying to figure it out.

I too have all Grohe fixtures and a gravity hot water loop WITHOUT a checkvalve. If I understand letmetellyou correctly, this allows the sludge that normally builds up at the bottom of the hotwater heater to be drawn directly into the hot water piping. (The HWH was installed last October). This makes sense relative to how it got to the master bath because the loop terminates there. Our kitchen fixtures branch off the same hotwater line, but are one floor below the bath. I'm trying to visuallize how the stuff could have migrated back down the piping and can't. Any suggestions?

Also there seemed to be a lot of it. Maybe 1/4 to 1/2 of a pail altogether. Where does it come from? We have a whole house water softner and charcoal filter installed 18 months ago so it can't be coming from outside. Our hardness is bacially zero so its not likely to be mineral deposits. I already checked with the water softener company - the material is not resin. Note to speedball1: I soked a sample in white vinegar for hours and it did not disolve. I used the same technique on our shower heads to remove mineral deposits before we got our softener so its probably not calcium carbonate - Any other thoughts?

PrattCourt: the lack of hot water in your shower is a probably a related problem. I have a Grohe temperature controlled mixer feeding 3 body sprays and a rain head in my master bath. This goop got into the hot water side of the mixer and is causing it to sometimes osscilate and sometime to simply reduce or cut off the hot water flow. Have your plumber disassemble the valve and use the flush plugs that it came with it to attempt to clear it.