Now that the Debt Ceiling is no longer a hot topic. What do you think happened?

Are we worse off or better off as a nation now that our "leaders" have chosen to slam us with what they want versus what is right?

To save a bunch of money they needed to END the unlawful useless wars they have going on around the world and concentrate on peace.

TD - what do you mean by "what is right?" You think default would have been the "right" thing for the country?

I worked for the Feds - you could cut one-third of the Fed work force and no one would even notice. I have friends who spend 2 to 3 hours A DAY on personal emails, still working for the Government.

I don't really care what happened. I do know that my stock portfolio plummeted (again) and right now the Canadian dollar is worth more than the US dollar.

I am also greatly amused because it seems everyone I talk to did NOT vote for Obama. It's Jack Kennedy in reverse. He was martyred so EVERYONE says they voted for him.

Obama is sinking fast so NOBODY voted for him.

Human nature at its best.

Now that the Debt Ceiling is no longer a hot topic. What do you think happened?Hello twink:

I think we got sidetracked and hornswaggled.. The wingers were right when they ran on jobs, but when they got in they went after abortion and the deficit. So we got hornswaggled into cutting spending when GROWTH is the problem and government spending IS essential. The deficit can be handled much easier when the economy has recovered.. This bit of stupidity is causing a double dip recession and a downgrade of our pristine credit rating.

And, the REAL stupid thing about it is, we did this before in 1937. Can you guess what happened?? A plunge BACK into depression happened.

That's what I think. Buy gold.

excon

Don't buy gold as they are soon going to pass a law about private citizens buying gold. Now how are you going to pay for a loaf of bread - chip off a piece of an ingot?

I think Bammy has way too many wars and his empty promise of being home the troops shortly after the election was an obvious LIE.

I also just love the part where they are greedily looking to cut SS and Medicare. Cut Medicare OK - SS NO. It would behoove them to reevaluate EVERYONE on disability and eliminate the frauds from the rolls. That would make a huge difference in outlay each month.

You mean they are not all holding hands and singing "Kum bay ya" and planing on eco friendly gun targets.

Both sides, lie about the other, and the issue is that the extreme on both sides have totally different ideas of what they think is right, so there is no real happy middle, if you really believe.

The compromise really shows that getting re-elected was more important than doing what they really think is right.

1. first the most likely there would not have been default on that exact day.
2. most programs had funding and money to pay for some times
3. and this is a issue at times, you have to let it break to fix it correctly.

The plan they came up with, will not save the credit standing of the US most likely anyway, Neither side was ready to really cut enough spending and raise some taxes to make things balance.

It will take the US perhaps going broke before real correct changes can be made

I think a certain number of very stupid people precipitated a crisis, which after they finally made a decision, was not averted. If they had made a decision without all the attention been drawn to the state of play then the market would have had greater confidence. From an economic point of view radical reforms are necessary and even the general public can see it but not these elephants and donkeys. Much trumpeting and braying produces nothing

The Repubics stumbled into the correct legislation twice and Reid tabled it. With the deadline fast approaching they abdicated spending authority to some unconstituional super committee that will make debt recommendations as if they are BRAC running the country .

The Repubics stumbled into the correct legislation twice and Reid tabled it. With the deadline fast approaching they abdicated spending authority to some unconstituional super committee that will make debt recommendations as if they are BRAC running the country .

Tom it is an ancient device to form a committee, it speads the blame and ensures no meaningfull outcome can be developed. At the end of the day they can say we tried and when the elections come they will not be held accountable

Don't buy gold as they are soon going to pass a law about private citizens buying gold. Now how are you going to pay for a loaf of bread - chip off a piece of an ingot?Hello again, twink:

That'll make my holdings skyrocket.. If you think the drug war works to keep drugs out of people's hands, then I'm sure you'll support the gold war...

But, to answer your question, when the baker's family is hungry, and the only medium of exchange is gold, he's going to accept it, and he's not going to care too much that the gold police won't like it.

$2,000/oz gold is HIGHLY probable.

excon

Tom it is an ancient device to form a committee, it speads the blame and ensures no meaningfull outcome can be developed. At the end of the day they can say we tried and when the elections come they will not be held accountable

It is a move to rule by oligarchy!! It is clearly an abdication of Constitutional authority . It is designed to defacto reduce the ration of public to elected official .

The Legislature shamefully approved the gutting of their Constitutional authority in this process . What you saw is negotiations behind closed doors ;key law being passed with minimal public debate ;laws dictated by party leaders without going through the open committee process... laws being passed without any public scrutiny or any transparency . And now we have this uber-committee that will meet in secret ,make recommendations that will not even be amended .It will be a yea or ney vote without ANY debate in Congress or in a public forum.

And now that the USA has lost it's high credit rating China has stated they will STOP lending us money. This forebodes a grim future for America's economy EVER recovering. The Wall Street psychos and banksters will be the only rich people left in this country in a few months or years.

I'm beginning to think the Debt Crisis was ANOTHER manufactured excuse/reason to trash this country. Don't be surprised if the FEMA camps become a full blown operation housing innocent Americans under the guise of terrorists if they protest this "take over" by these dictators.

This is almost the same scenerio Russia experienced under Stalin that led that country down the path of total communism for decades.

S&P knows that the US can easily service the debt ;and the Chinese will still buy our bonds because they are the safest vehicle in the world. Ex's gold may be a long term winner. But I expect it is a bubble ready to burst in the short term.
S&P may have a point about our political leadership ;but they let political opinion and not economic reality dominate their call.

they let political opinion and not economic reality dominate their call.

Political only in the sense that it results from a political decision. The S&P decision was made on the result of applying a simple formula without reference to the consequences of making the decision, because to do so would have been political. The economic reality is that the US is a basket case economy with no real plan to change the circumstance and the rating agencies in one form or another have been sending signals for months and much of the result would have been factored in by the markets, however now suddenly we have investors running for cover as if this was new. This is the result of political stalemate, the result of the electorate failing to send a clear signal by electing one party to rulehttp://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/07/fareeds-take-weve-downgraded-ourselves/?hpt=hp_t1

Split leadership works for me . S&P claims they don't care if the formula is cutting ;tax increases or a combo of both .But the reality is you CANNOT tax your way out of this deficit mess . Economic growth and reasonable spending is the answer. Growth doesn't come from government intervention except those rare exceptions like Reid made in the telegraph.

All the money wasted in mass transit is but one example . Billions have been wasted ,and the percentage of ridership has shrunk since the subsidies began.

Government intervention in the economy is fool's gold.

But the reality is you CANNOT tax your way out of this deficit mess . Hello again, tom:

Nobody is talking about taxes being the way out.. They ARE talking about taxing the very super rich a teeny, tiny bit, simply so that they SHARE in the sacrifice that the poor are being asked to make... That's all the people want - SHARED sacrifice... It's NOT about money. It's about SHARING the woes of the nation. I don't know why that concept is foreign to you.

excon

The rhetoric doesn't match what they plan. When the Bush tax rates expire ,a lot more than the "super rich " will feel the impact. I could give you all the facts about how much the "rich " already pay into the Federal coffers or the repeated examples where lower rates equated to larger Federal revenues .Suffice it to say that even with punative rates the goal cannot be reached or come even close to it.

Suffice it to say that even with punative rates the goal cannot be reached or come even close to it.Hello again, tom:

If the goal were to have the rich pay for everything, then I agree... But, once again, the goal ISN'T to fix the economy on the backs of the rich. It's to SHARE a teeny tiny bit of the pain that EVERYBODY is going through, EXCEPT the rich. They're skating along just fine, thank you very much...

excon

The rhetoric doesn't match what they plan. When the Bush tax rates expire ,alotSuffice it to say that even with punative rates the goal cannot be reached or come even close to it.

Punative rates? It is a long time since the US has been subject to punative rates of taxation. This is pure republican B/S Tom and you know it. Perhaps if you paid as much as others you wouldn't have as big a mess as you do. All the tax perks have done for your nation is create a mess that is too difficult to deal with because if you deal with it you have to affect someone. Stop pu$$yfooting around and deal with the Bush legacy

Perhaps if you paid as much as others you wouldn't have as big a mess as you do

Really ? Tell me how all those high tax rates are working out for the European nations .

really ? tell me how all those high tax rates are working out for the European nations .

Well Tom they seem to have more money available to deal with a financial crisis. If you add up all their debt with an equivalent population it is nothing like the spendthrift US who expect the rest of the world to keep on financing the party. You need to deal with the attitude of people rather than the EU. The greeks have been up themselves and have reaped according but the EU has taken in millions of low level economic migrants and responsibility for basket case eastern european nations. I haven't seen the US with it's "high" taxes do that. You winge and complain about a few million hispanics as a drain on your resources. Wouldn't you like to have an entitlement system like France? Or their rail network or their safe nuclear power?

Stop talking out of the side of your mouth

but the EU has taken in millions of low level economic migrants and responsibility for basket case eastern european nations. I haven't seen the US with it's "high" taxes do that. You winge and complain about a few million hispanics as a drain on your resources. Wouldn't you like to have an entitlement system like France? Or their rail network or their safe nuclear power?



A few million a year you mean...
The French rail system may work for them... it would possibly work for a similar state in the US the size of France if we were dealing with central cities developed by king Louis too.
The truth is that here the mass transit and rail spending by the government has been a colossal waste of money . After years of sqander there is no more percentage of people riding rail than before the special subsidies began.

But you know what France did that is effective ? They built a tunnel system in and around Paris that serves 200,000 autos daily . How is it paid for ? The drivers who use it pay tolls for the privilege of avoiding down town congestion. That's innovation... not 19th century rail technology .

What does high speed rail get you ? Go ask the Chinese commuters . Their relatives never got to give them a proper burial ,the Chinese were so fast to bury the evidence of government run inefficiency.

As for the nukes ,yes I'd like their designs used here . That just tells me our bureaucrats are even dumber than theirs... In both cases you are talking of industries heavily run under the private-public model.

Tom France has exploited the public-private model very well and you have pointed out how effectively they use their tax dollars even if it is to build toll roads. Nothing wrong with toll roads Tom, go to China and see how effectively they have facilitated nation building. No question of a well paved road there. Do you think that size matters so much it can be used as an excuse, If we thought that where I live we would never have gotten off the beach and that public-private model has been used very effectively to help us do it. Take the blinkers off Tom and realise there is more than one way to do things effectively. As far as rail crashes go Tom unfortunately we all have them and the risk is greater with high speed rail but as France has shown it can be done effectively. Rail isn't 19th century, in fact it is more logical that having millions of pieces of personalised transport requiring never ending maintenance and expansion of a crumbling road system. You have to take the oriential problem of face into account, the Chinese don't like airing their dirty linen, it tends to promote political unrest and protest, this is why they had undue haste to bury the evidence

Quit making apologies for them .It is an outrage .They buried the evidence because they want to hide the fact they stole the technology.

quit making apologies for them .It is an outrage .They buried the evidence because they want to hide the fact they stole the technology.

Bah Humbug Tom. If they stole the technology they stole the wrong technology, they couldn't have stolen US technology so why the bleating. If they bought the technology then they got what they paid for. They obviously have some very stupid or very frieghtened people working for them. The Chinese will do anything to avoid federal scrutiny, even bury the evidence. In the US the worst that will happen to you for negligence is prison, in China you are likely to be shot