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Tball
Jul 25, 2011, 04:47 AM
What is the recourse you can take if your company is taking the money out of your payroll check, but it has not been deposited into your account?
We called the owner of the company (it is a small business). His response was "yeah, we are a little behind on that, there is something wrong with the system"
We then called the 401K company. I did find out that there has been no deposits made since February 8th, it is now July 25th. The account rep immediately wanted to call the owner of the company. (In a small company, this would only result in termination of employment, so I asked him not to do that yet.) I am supposed to call him back, this week to see if the money has been deposited.
Needless to say, the match is not being made either.
I know this is against many laws. I am wondering what the recourse is.

joypulv
Jul 25, 2011, 06:01 AM
Recourse would be contacting the US Dept of Labor and the IRS, and the 401K rep can help with that.

You have a choice of giving money away or being fired. If your company is so strapped that they have to steal from paychecks, then the odds of you having a job much longer might not be high anyway.

You could go in to the owner's office, close the door, and confront him or her directly. But I think I would get the other employees together for affirmation that this is happening to all of them and ask if they want you to represent all of them during the confrontation. It will make firing more difficult. If this is some handwriting on the wall, be prepared for the company closing and standing in line as creditors (you'd be first, I believe, since it was your money being withdrawn, not a benefit).

Many a pension fund has been drained by companies in the past and the employees never saw a dime.

Tball
Jul 25, 2011, 07:41 AM
Thanks for the quick response. We have discussed the possibility of the company being financially strapped, and if they have resorted to "stealing" from the employees and their 401k's that they may not be around much longer anyway.
This morning, he went in to the Monday morning meeting, hoping that something would be said to those that are involved in the 401K, but nothing was said about it (the owner DOES know that we are aware of it, but, not everyone is... yet).
The 401K rep, said to give them until this Thursday to make good on it, then they will step in. It will cause repercussions. We know that.
We are in the process also, of trying to reach the payroll company. Do they not ask for the complete payroll, and are responsible for paying certain things? I am not sure if the 401K is part of that, or if that is just taxes, etc.
We are still trying to gather information and put all of our ducks in a row, so to say!
Thanks again! Hopefully this will all just work out!

ebaines
Jul 25, 2011, 08:00 AM
Just to confirm - Dept of Labor guidelines specify that deposits to the employees' accounts must be made by the 15th business day of the month following the payroll deduction. Failure to do so - even if not purposeful - results in the employer having to pay a 20% excise tax penalty. The best way to avoid this is for the employer to file a voluntary disclosure that he is in violation of ERISA rules.

Good luck - please keep us informed as to how this progresses. If worse come to worse you always have the option to sue, but of course that's not much consolation if your employer is bankrupt.

joypulv
Jul 25, 2011, 09:42 AM
I wouldn't tiptoe around anymore. I would talk to the person in your company who is in charge of sending payroll off to the payroll company, because it would be good to know just where in the chain the 401K funds are being diverted (maybe being withheld for fees). Payroll companies require a lot of money up front to cover not only payroll but their fees, and maybe they have a clause that says the 401K is the first to suffer if funds aren't adequate. (I'm surprised that the owner didn't just hire a payroll person to save money and not have to have a reserve.)
Get that employee to find out exactly who has your money. If your company shuts down or is shut down, it may be a long wait. You may not have to sue since payroll is the first in line as creditor, but I don't know if 401K funds count as payroll or are further down the list. And even being first in line doesn't mean a lot if the only assets left are furniture and computers.

Tball
Jul 25, 2011, 03:25 PM
Thanks for all the responses.. I will keep you informed

ScottGem
Jul 25, 2011, 03:39 PM
I would let the 401K rep handle things. They have a stake since they could also be in trouble for not following up on deposits. They will know who to contact.

The only thing I'm not sure of is whether the payroll company is responsible for forwarding the deposits or not. If they are, then they may also be in trouble. So I would try and find that out. The rep may be able to tell you where they were getting money from.

Fr_Chuck
Jul 25, 2011, 08:18 PM
The 401K rep could merely act like they are wondering where all of the deposits are

But I would at once, stop any future payments into the plan till it is fixed.