I currently carry (concealed in an inside the waistband holster) a Smith & Wesson Bodyguard 380. I'm thinking of "moving up" to a 9mm. Can anyone suggest a good (and small) 9mm that I can carry in an inside the waistband holster?

I'll be using it at the firing range fairly frequently, so I don't want one of the $150 cheapies that I've seen out there.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

The Glock 19 is a common choice. However, "moving up" to 9 seems almost moot. A personal defense .380 round packs quite a wallop. Remember, the best concealed carry is the one you'll actually carry. If you go too bulky you'll quite possible opt out of carrying whereas with the .380 you might very well have carried. Personally I carry a S&W .38 Airweight. Good luck in your search.

Personal defense infers close action, within 10-30 ft. 380 is fine and probably more easily concealed. 9mm has more options. I use a 40 cal. but not easily concealed.

I have a number of different carry handguns. The main one I deal with is a Kel-Tec P3AT .380 caliber. Great fit for the pocket and as others have said, it will do the job if you're familiar with it. I also have a S&W .38 special snub nose revolver that I carry in the waistband at time. Decent gun and will also do what it needs. On rare occasions, I carry a Bersa 9mm Mini Firestorm in a Galco holster. The gun is small but still too big to be carried in the waistband comfortably. It's a great gun, has had over 2,000 rounds through it with no failures but it is just too big to be comfortable. What you're looking for, a small 9mm to be carried in the waistband, is probably something you won't find easily. In my opinion, the .380 Bodyguard that you already have is the answer to your question.

Why not "move up" to an AMT HardBaller. Costs an arm and a leg but is very customizable and you'll be sure to impress your friends or muggers accordingly. Starting at $1,000 and the collectible model the Skipper model is much more. This is basically a .45 which has a lot more stopping power than the 9.

I prefer at .38 or 357 revolver. Simple point and shoot. Don't have to worry about jamming.

Thank you, all. I am accurate with my .380 (shots within a 7-8" group) up to 50 feet... and know well that 2-3 rounds to the center of mass will put the bad guy down... so based on the advice above, I think I'll stick with my .380 for concealed carry inside the waistband.

Thanks again, all. I'll be sure to come back to this wonderful site when I have other questions.

...and I'll try to "pay it forward" too, and see if there are some ares where I can help answer some questions.

TO Odinn7:
The AMT Hardballer is a REAL gun and NOT just a video game toy as you refer. It is very customizable with the grips, etc. and is a substantial weapon. A friend of mine had the Skipper model and loved it. He also got the Hardballer and loved that as well. He knew guns and dealt in weapons for years but never owned an AMT Hardballer but once he handled the weapon he loved it. He also bought a shoulder holster to wear the gun under his coat. He was a big man well over 6' and could handle this longer barrel easily. It is a well made gun made in West Covina, California. Much superior to a S&W anyday. S&W and Colt have both dropped in quality over the years. Not so with the AMT models.

Yes, I am familiar with the Hitman videos, but No, I was NOT inferring the AMT in a video game to real life. The gun existed long before the video game came into being. Edios just picked this gun as it is very customizable with longslides, grips, etc. and looks cool.

The AMT was also featured in the movie The Terminator as well and even appearing on the movie poster. It comes in several models, such as the Commando, and the Skipper. The US government at one time used these guns before switching to the 9mm Barettas. Also US police use these AMT weapons as well. The Broward Sheriff's Office in South Florida used these weapons as well before switching to the Glock 9's so the guns would to less damage to the perps. Apparently the AMT's were too powerful being a .45.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMT_Hardballer

If the person wants affordability why don't they get a regular .357? The OP did say they didn't want a $150 cheapie so THAT is why I recommended this very fine weapon. Sometimes the person who actually carries a weapon does not actually take it out and use it as personal defense. This way if they had the Hardballer concealed and took it out the other guy would literally pee his pants and think twice about doing whatever. I consider your 380 a toy, not a gun. It's made of ploymar plastic! Just like the Glock 9's. It's like a toy gun literally! Why not just carry a water pistol and be done with it. Do you want a toy or a for real gun that stops perps cold? Sounds like you want a toy instead. That gun is okay if you were a little boy or a woman but real men carry real guns.

Guns are not recommended to be shoved into your waistband as they tend to accidentally blow off important man parts. Only movie people use lightgerweight guns and shove them down their pants front. Real people who have any brains don't do this but use a holster instead fitted to their weapon or use the moldable holster.

You can have a full grain or a half grain bullets for the .357 and still meet your needs. Have your gunsmith customize your loads accordingly.

I still carry my Kel Tec 380, it was my back up weapon when I was a officer, perfect small fit for waist, leg, I carry it since it is so light weight and easy to carry.

The Glock 19 would be my next choice for a slightly larger weapon.

Aww... I upset Twinkie. Believe it or not, I do know about the AMT Hardballer. I didn't think your answer was appropriate as the OP asked about moving up to a 9mm. Further, he stated "Can anyone suggest a good (and small) 9mm that I can carry in an inside the waistband holster?"

So you got offended that I didn't think your comment fit his question? Too bad. Your answer had no place other than for you to go on about Hardballers. Clearly, guns that size are not "small" and can't be carried in a waistband holster.

As far as shoving guns into your waistband... They make waistband holsters... ever see them? Same as a holster you wear on the outside but designed to be worn in the waistband for more concealability. Look them up. Galco, Bianchi, any name brand holster company makes them.

Now I'd rather not turn this thread into an argument because you are offended. I apologize for hurting your feelings.

No need to argue, I was happy with all of the responses.

I did not mention my price range so the suggestion of a $1000 gun was not out of line.

If I found a small (similar in size to my S&W BG .380) and reliable 9mm for under about $450 I'd probably buy it... but based on all of the suggestions here in this thread, I'll stick with my .380 for Concealed Carry, and maybe upgrade to a bigger caliber for target shooting and open carry later.

Sorry to turn the thread into an argument FinkPloyd.

I will say though that a larger caliber handgun for target shooting and home defense is a good idea and in a case like that, I would certainly stand behind Twinkies idea of AMT's if you could even find them.

Take care.

Thank you, all. I've appreciated all of the input.

Have you decided yet what you want to carry as far as a revolver or a semi-auto ?

Once you know that then recommendations might come a little easier.

Have you decided yet what you want to carry as far as a revolver or a semi-auto ?

Once you know that then recomendations might come alittle easier.

I'm a fan of both and carry either on occasion. As far as a revolver, it's my primary choice because God forbid if I ever need it and it mis-fires all I have to do is PTA (pull trigger again). In the heat of the moment, re-racking to clear a jammed semi-auto would be much more difficult. Unless of course you're trained to the hilt. It would also require that both hands were free to perform the re-rack operation. Self defense might very well be so close quartered that the weak hand would be engaged in keeping the bad guy simply off you. Just my .2 cents worth. Of course the semi-auto has far more rounds generally speaking so there is a plus there. I would venture to guess though that a 5 shot revolver in a real world situation would be more than adequate. This was advice given many moons ago by my CWP range instructor as to why he carried a revolver as his primary choice. Food for thought.

I'm a fan of both and carry either on occasion. As far as a revolver, it's my primary choice because God forbid if I ever need it and it mis-fires all I have to do is PTA (pull trigger again). In the heat of the moment, re-racking to clear a jammed semi-auto would be much more difficult. Unless of course you're trained to the hilt. It would also require that both hands were free to perform the re-rack operation. Self defense might very well be so close quartered that the weak hand would be engaged in keeping the bad guy simply off of you. Just my .2 cents worth. Of course the semi-auto has far more rounds generally speaking so there is a plus there. I would venture to guess though that a 5 shot revolver in a real world situation would be more than adequate. This was advice given many moons ago by my CWP range instructor as to why he carried a revolver as his primary choice. Food for thought.

To me its about personal choice. Depending on the situation both have their good and bad attributes. Above all I always recommend that whomever the shooter is that they are comfortable with their weapon of choice. And I don't believe you have to be trained to the hilt to use a semiauto. I believe with any gun that you choose to carry you take it to the range and learn what to expect from it. Even practicing off hand shooting. It just makes sense to use what you have and to know how it works. Im sure in your choice of semiauto if it did have a high failure rate you would get a different one.

Bottom line is what the person using it wants not my preconcieved ideas of any given situation.

To me its about personal choice. Depending on the situation both have thier good and bad attributes. Above all I always recomend that whomever the shooter is that they are comfortable with thier weapon of choice. And I dont believe you have to be trained to the hilt to use a semiauto. I believe with any gun that you choose to carry you take it to the range and learn what to expect from it. Even practicing off hand shooting. It just makes sense to use what you have and to know how it works. Im sure in your choice of semiauto if it did have a high failure rate you would get a different one.

Bottom line is what the person using it wants not my preconcieved ideas of any given situation.
I didn't mean to imply you needed to be trained to the hilt to use a semi-auto. A reliable one is a great asset. I was simply mentioning the God forbid "what if" scenario in the event of a misfire or a jam. A revolver flat out will not jam. I'm very comfortable with both at a range but in a high adrenaline scenario I personally would rather continue to pull the trigger in the event of a mis-fire. Like I mentioned though, just personal preference. To add to my wishy-washy thoughts on the matter I often do carry a semi as well. Your comment about personal choice is spot on. Familiarity is ultimately key. When my wife and I go to the range I'll load a snap cap (inert, properly sized round for those unfamiliar) somewhere in her magazine discretely to familiarize her with rapidly remedying the situation. It's all about training.

Exactly! Training is KEY. You have to be completely familiar with whatever it is that you choose as your carry gun or your home protection gun. I know of many people who own guns and think that is enough. I even know one guy who is licensed to carry, carries a Springfield XD, but has no real idea how to use it. He bought it, went to the range and put a box of ammo through it with a friend there to show him. I think "this is what you are going to base your life on?" Not only is he not familiar with the gun but he also has not run nearly enough rounds through it to see if it is reliable. My carry guns have been to the range with me countless times and I also make sure to continue to practice with them at least a few times a year. The guns I have designated for home defense guns are the same way. I want to know that gun well enough to load it in the dark, clear a jam, whatever. I also want to know that it's not a piece of garbage that is going to fail on me when I need it.

Anyway, sorry to ramble. I just thought the last few posts were good and they got me to thinking.

Exactly! Training is KEY. You have to be completely familiar with whatever it is that you choose as your carry gun or your home protection gun. I know of many people who own guns and think that is enough. I even know one guy who is licensed to carry, carries a Springfield XD, but has no real idea how to use it. He bought it, went to the range and put a box of ammo through it with a friend there to show him. I think "this is what you are going to base your life on?" Not only is he not familiar with the gun but he also has not run nearly enough rounds through it to see if it is reliable. My carry guns have been to the range with me countless times and I also make sure to continue to practice with them at least a few times a year. The guns I have designated for home defense guns are the same way. I want to know that gun well enough to load it in the dark, clear a jam, whatever. I also want to know that it's not a piece of garbage that is going to fail on me when I need it.

Anyway, sorry to ramble. I just thought the last few posts were good and they got me to thinking.



Its OK to ramble and welcome to the new boards here at AMHD.

Shameless plug on my part. If you want to talk in general about guns there is a thread I had started and existed before this board. Its in another section but your welcome to read through and post there.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/other-member-discussions/ready-aim-fire-aka-gun-thread-481412.html

I carry the S&W 380 (semi-auto) because it is small and reliable: Smaller than a 38.

Attached is a picture of it in my hand.

If there is a well-build and long lasting (up to thousands of rounds) 9mm gun that is the same size, I would consider it.

This looks like a nice, small, 9mm gun:
Kimber America | Solo Carry 9 mm Pistol (http://www.kimberamerica.com/solo/solo-carry/solo-carry)

... but I'm not familiar with the Kimber line. Do any of you have any comments about this gun or Kimber in general?

Also, the Kimber Solo is VERY expensive ($747.00 US). My guess, though, is that the price will come down soon.

The S&W Bodyguard 380 that I carry was almost $600 when it first came out about a year ago... but now it's only $369 at local stores.

This looks like a nice, small, 9mm gun:
Kimber America | Solo Carry 9 mm Pistol (http://www.kimberamerica.com/solo/solo-carry/solo-carry)

... but I'm not familiar with the Kimber line. Do any of you have any comments about this gun or Kimber in general?

Also, the Kimber Solo is VERY expensive ($747.00 US). My guess, though, is that the price will come down soon.

The S&W Bodyguard 380 that I carry was almost $600 when it first came out about a year ago... but now it's only $369 at local stores.

Kimber is considered to be amongst the top of the line. They sure produce a beautiful product. I've never fired one but I know they are highly regarded.

Kimber is an expensive line of guns... finely made. They specialize in 1911 style autos.

If you want my opinion... yes, that Kimber seems small but... at 6 rounds capacity, you are not really trading up all that much from your .380 S&W. If you could find a small 9 with 10 rounds or more, then maybe it would be worth spending the money. . 380 has killed many people over it's history. Then again, so has 9mm. Lol.

Dang! Why do I keep waffling on this issue?

I know that a bad guy who takes 2 rounds to the chest will go down... so why am I eager to "upgrade" to a 9mm?

I don't know!

I guess I just like guns!. yes, I do.

... but in summary I think that I will (based on all of your opinions) just stick with my 380 for concealed... and when I really get a hankering to get something bigger, go for a nice full sized gun of some sort for shooting fun on the range/ in the woods.

Keep in mind as well that a 380 is also called a 9mm Short. It's the same diameter as a 9mm. A little less punch to it but essentially the same projectile. Certainly not interchangeable though!

I know.

Technically, the .380 is a bit bigger diameter than a 9mm (.38 = 9.652mm)... but yes, I know that it does not have as much powder behind it.

I know.

Technically, the .380 is a bit bigger diameter than a 9mm (.38 = 9.652mm) ... but yes, I know that it does not have as much powder behind it.

Put a +P round in your Body Guard and walk the streets with confidence! Speaking of fun guns to shoot, (off subject, I know... ) Check out the GSG-522 Tactical .22LR. I just picked one up and got a 110 round drum magazine with it. It's a great deal of fun and cheap to shoot! It's a carbine mind you so it may not be of interest. I'm just still giddy over mine due to the sheer fun of it!

Putting a +P round into my gun will negate the warranty.

Putting a +P round into a gun that is not designed for it can also be a danger to the user if the gun blows up while trying to shoot with that sort of round.

Diameter wise, 380 and 9mm are exact. You can't go by the designation of .380 being actually .38" in diameter. Raisingale is correct that the .380 is a 9mm "short" (aka 9mm Kurtz). The projectile of both are roughly .355 to .36 but for whatever reason, the .380 ACP was designated as a .380. The shell is a little shorter, the powder charge is a little less, muzzle energy is less, yet it is designated with a larger size. It is the same way with .38 Special and .357 Magnum. Both bullets are the same diameter but the .357 Magnum is the heavier hitting round because of more powder. Don't ask me why it is this way...you'd have to go way back through history to get an actual answer that makes sense. As a side note, they do the same thing with car engines. 5.0 litre engine is 302 cubic inches for Ford, 305 for Chevy....anyway...

I don't want to talk you out of getting a bigger gun or 9mm. It is your choice. All I was doing was giving you advice to try and save you money. I do completely understand the want or "need" to move up. I mean, I do have 3 carry guns...do I need that many? Of course not but I got the "fever" at one point too. It's OK, and most of us get it. If you want to move up, then do it! Have fun with it. Just be sure to practice if and when you do switch. Another suggestion that may help... there are plenty of 9mm's out there that are small enough to carry comfortably in a hip holster covered under a jacket or shirt. You may want to consider that for cooler weather carry since it is easier to conceal. Just be sure to spend the money and get a good holster or you will find yourself very uncomfortable in a short amount of time.

I attached (or tried to, let's see if it works) a picture of my 9mm, 38, and .380 carry guns just so you can see them.

@ Raisingale-

My friend has the GSG... what a cool little gun. Loads of fun to shoot. I bought a S&W M&P15-22 (same style as an AR-15) and I find that real fun to "play" with too. . 22's are great for practice and just blowing off steam now and then. Lol.

@ Raisingale-

My friend has the GSG...what a cool little gun. Loads of fun to shoot. I bought a S&W M&P15-22 (same style as an AR-15) and I find that real fun to "play" with too. .22's are great for practice and just blowing off steam now and then. lol.

I was torn between the two. That S&W 15-22 is awesome. I love how it breaks down for easy cleaning. I got the H&K pushpins for mine so now it's real quick and easy takedown too. They are fun! My first choice was to get and mod a Ruger 10-22 but saw these "new" tactical models and was instantly smitten!

I actually decided on the S&W 15-22 because I own an AR-15 and was looking for a cheaper way to practice with it. The 15-22 is almost the same as a standard AR-15 in the way that it functions and breaks down. Safety, charging handle, magazine release are all the same location and function as an AR so it is an economical way to stay in practice. If it wasn't for that, I was going for a GSG as I think that's incredibly cool. My friend bought a laser sight, scope, and fore grip for his which adds a little to the fun factor.

I actually decided on the S&W 15-22 because I own an AR-15 and was looking for a cheaper way to practice with it. The 15-22 is almost the same as a standard AR-15 in the way that it functions and breaks down. Safety, charging handle, magazine release are all the same location and function as an AR so it is an economical way to stay in practice. If it wasn't for that, I was going for a GSG as I think that's incredibly cool. My friend bought a laser sight, scope, and fore grip for his which adds a little to the fun factor.

You're right about the AR-15 similarity. They're hugely popular for the reason you stated. The GSG would be equally suited as a practice weapon in lieu of the HK MP-5. In fact, GSG got sued for the similarity. Their solution was a knurled grip and a different look to the charging bolt. My plan for mine is identical to what your friend did with his. I can't decide between a laser site or a fiber optic site though. I love the look of fiber optics. Especially on handguns. That or Tritium. Talk about easy target acquisition!

Taurus makes a great line of guns. And one of the new features is sa/da in their semi-auto. They have good pricing too.

Taurus International Manufacturing Inc (http://www.taurususa.com/gun-selector-results.cfm?series=MP1)

Taurus makes a great line of guns. And one of the new features is sa/da in thier semi-auto. They have good pricing too.

Taurus International Manufacturing Inc (http://www.taurususa.com/gun-selector-results.cfm?series=MP1)

I used to have the little Taurus (also 380) but I hated it. The part that rests against my "thumb web" was so skinny that it actually hurt my hand when firing it at the range.

Also, the magazine release is very poorly placed. It's easy to release the magazine while firing it.

... so I sold it and bought the S&W.

I used to have the little Taurus (also 380) but I hated it. The part that rests against my "thumb web" was so skinny that it actually hurt my hand when firing it at the range.

Also, the magazine release is very poorly placed. It's easy to release the magazine while firing it.

...so I sold it and bought the S&W.

This is exactly why I encourage people to go to a range that has rental guns of the style and type that they want to shoot. That way you can avoid the ones your not comfortable with rather then making a bad purchase and having to sell it or trade it.

Taurus does make some good guns and some of the newer ones are winning awards and accolades from both the industry and users alike.

Also a word of caution when buying a gun off the internet. Find a local store that carries the one you want and try it in your hands before you buy it from whatever source. That way you will know what your getting. A picture says many things but nothing beats being there :)

See if any of this helps:
http://www.best9mm.com/index.html

Not sure other peoples area, but here in Atlanta, the better gun ranges all have gun rentals with all types of guns you can try, It is also fun to shoot different weapons

For a good concealed weapon, look at the Sub-compact models, I bought for myself the Springfield XD-40 that weighs a mere 26oz, and I got my wife the Taurus MILLENNIUM PRO .40 that only weighs 18.7oz

For a good concealed weapon, look at the Sub-compact models, I bought for myself the Springfield XD-40 that weighs a mere 26oz, and I got my wife the Taurus MILLENNIUM PRO .40 that only weighs 18.7oz

Subs are great but make sure your comfortable with it. When it comes to subs many have a shortened grip. Just make sure to handle the gun before you buy. There are solutions for a shortened grip if you need it depending on the weapon.

Welcome to AMHD MDucharme.

I just recently (2 weeks ago) got another carry gun. I settled on a Charter Arms Bulldog in .44 special. Great little gun but heavy on the recoil with the defense loads I'm using.

twinkiedooter must have a soft spot for the Hardballer while I prefer the Backup from AMT. I carried a AMT Backup .380 for a short time and found it sufficient to suit my needs but swapped to a .38 Derringer which I carried for many years. I was impressed when AMT later added the 9mm, 45, and .40 cal to the Backup line. They are fine weapons but I have since moved over to a 32 cal. Beretta Tomcat that I carry in a shoot-thru in the pocket holster. Works for me. I have it in my pocket all the time just as my keys, wallet and change purse. In other words it is part of my daily carry items. I found I like this setup and the holster saves my pocket from having holes. It really comes down to what your comfortable carrying and using. Proficiency with our weapon is part of the responsibility we take in bearing arms, just as cleaning and maintaining the weapon is a responsibility. The caliber of the weapon is not as important as being able to hit where we aim. The best thing to have if we needed to defend ourselves would be a police officer but they would be hard to conceal and carry.

I am a gunsmith and firearm instructor, I have several fine answers above but as I tell all my students and everyone that asks me that in choosing your firearm you need to pick one that first you are willing to trust our life with, next that feels right in your hands from the grips to the sights to the trigger pull and also accuracy is very important remember that in a stressful situation IE your defending yourself, even the most trained professionals loose 60% of their accuracy when it counts. Another thing you need to keep in mind is conceal ability of the weapon. And from the other side of my life I am a paramedic and have been for almost 17 years and have dealt with more than my fair share of the recipients of bullets weather it be bad guys or victims. When it comes to close combat caliber is not as important as ammunition. DO NOT USE HAND LOADS AS A DEFENSE ROUND EVER! If you don't have a FFL-amunition manufactors liscenes and you shoot someone with a hand load you can and will be in ton of legal trouble regardless of how '' justifiable'' the shoot is that spends from a case in Florida of a Florida trooper off duty shot and killd a guy trying to car jack him after being shot twice himself before getting his weapon out and then killing the assailant, he had hand loads in his off duty weapon and is now in prison for MURDER 1st degree. Now off that soap box use a good hollow point and don't skimp on them. Don't ever use ball ammo or full metal jacket. From the actual damage I have seen, well I carry the remington golden saber, after that I would use the gold dot or hydroshock. Where caliber comes into play in close is anything smaller than a .380 might not be as affective as people think. Its winter time here I have seen a leather coat stop a .32 auto from 10 feet away just for for thought there.

Do you know or can you remember the logic that was applied to charge him with murder due to him using reloaded ammo ?

This is why Im asking the question.


Ref:
In 2005, under Governor Bush, Florida became the first state to pass a "Stand Your Ground Law," expanding the right to self-defense in the home to other areas including the workplace and in a car.

About Florida Self-Defense Laws | eHow.com (http://www.ehow.com/about_4577787_florida-selfdefense-laws.html)

.500 S&W with 4 inch barrel

.500 S&W with 4 inch barrel

Why would you want a gun like that for daily carry? Seems a little over the top as far as being able to handle an SHTF situation.

A gun like that would be asking for trouble. Not only is it too big and heavy as well as hard to control but it's too likely to have over penetration and risk innocent lives.

This recommendation comes from someone who hears voices on a daily basis - maybe I'm sensitive after Boston but I have to ask..

I suspect he was only trying to be a smarta$$... or maybe trying to show us his ultimate knowledge of guns.