Casey Anthony found not guilty! Anyone have any thoughts or feelings on this?

Death of Caylee Anthony - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Caylee_Anthony)

U.S. riveted over Casey Anthony's 'summer soap opera' murder trial - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/americas/us-riveted-over-casey-anthonys-summer-soap-opera-murder-trial/article2086621/)

I can't think of a more convoluted public case than this one. I only got a glimpse here and there of the court preceedings. Casey chose not to testify, that was her option; her mother reported the granddaughter missing; the grandfather found the corpse (I think); the grandfather had an affair (dont know what bearing that has on anything); Casey partyed and carried on into the wee hours and had boyfriends (whilst her girl was missing and presumed dead). Have I got all of that right?

So much evidence went cold during the three years. Did they ever do an autopsy to determine cause of death, other then the tape?

See how much I know which isn't much.

Okay, so she is free; only she has to suffer if she knows more. We will likely hear she committed suicide at some point in time.

Tick

Well that pretty much sums it up Tick. I can't say I know much more. But the whole thing leaves me sick to my stomach. I am killing myself trying to understand why she did what she did? What kind of mother does not report her child missing? (Of course she was dead and Casey knew this). But what kind of mother parties and shows no remorse for her dead child?

Maybe my head is in the clouds, I chose to not watch the news for these exact stories. It's so depressing. I don't mean to be one of those people who keep their head in the sand, but when I think of what kind of monsters are out there, it frightens and sickens me. I have a little girl who is going to be 4 very soon. I could never imagine my life with out her. She is my life.

I am in disbelief! This just sickens me! You pretty much know my thoughts as I have voiced them on Facebook.

Justice was not served today. Its like the Oj Simpson trial all over again!

2 cases of prosecutorial over- reach ;this case and the case in NY involving IMF chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn (DSK) .

Casey Anthony probably killed her kid.
But the prosecutor used circumstantial evidence to charge her with premeditated murder. Why... when the evidence pointed to a lesser charge ?
There may be justice in our court system but there is no justice for Caylee .

It sucks because while we are all pretty sure of what happened, there's just not enough evidence.

I want to see justice for Caylee, but that window of opportunity may have closed. We may only be able to hope for justice in the afterlife.

It's heartbreaking and sickening. Casey Anthony will likely not be welcome anywhere she goes, as least there may be some "social" justice:

"Outside the courtroom, spectators screamed "Lord!" as the learned of the not guilty ruling. People comforted each other and cried, one man remarking that Casey Anthony should leave town because she's not welcome in Orlando." -ABC news (http://abcnews.go.com/US/casey_anthony_trial/casey-anthony-guilty-murder-caylees-death/story?id=13987918).

It looks like she got what she wanted. Not to have the responsibility for caring for Caylee. Now she can party all she wants. PFFT!

Mirror mirror on the wall...

I was sure she would be found guilty. There is just way too much evidence that backs it up... or so I thought.

My next question is, if Casey didn't murder Caylee, then WHO did?

I totally think Casey did it. I think that there wasn't enough circumstantial evidence to back this up, but us as knowing human beings who are able to make decisions and judgement on more than circumstantial evidence know what that horrible woman did. Now I am the niece of a controversial man here in Canada. He has quite the record here with the Canadian Law system (see Justice Denied (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Marshall,_Jr.)), and I for one would not want to see another innocent person burned at the steak, but there is no doubt in my mind that this woman is guilty of murdering her child. No justice was served here. No one will pay the price for this poor child's life, except hopefully in the afterlife.

You're right Enig, now she can live the life she killed for.

What does PPFT mean? :confused:

What does PPFT mean?? :confused:

Lol PFFT is a noise that people do out of anger, frustration, or disbelief.

It's the only way I could spell it out? Lol

A person is innocent if there is reasonable doubt. It was up to the prosecution to make a case beyond reasonable doubt. That is hard to do without the pursuit of 1st degree murder. But that is the case the prosecution tried to prove with circumstantial evidence and pseudo-science(the car smelled like there was a dead boby in it... air samples taken... the use of psychic detectives ).

Ahhh sorry pffft. I understand. Lol sorry blonde moment.

I understand reasonable doubt, but I think the jury took it too far.

We're a jaded society. There are so many TV shows about forensic evidence, proving things beyond a doubt. The fingerprint on the murder weapon, DNA, you name it.

People expect there to be evidence, DNA, fingerprints, a video! That's not real life, but that's what most people expect.

The state proved their case, at least as far as I'm concerned. There was a body in the trunk of the car. No doubt about it. Two different dogs trained to detect human decomposition hit on the trunk. So, if Caylee wasn't in the trunk, who was?

The medical examiner that testified for the state said that no accidental drownings go unreported. That makes sense. Accidents happen. An accident is an accident. So why would someone cover that up?

So, if Caylee didn't drown, her body was in her moms car trunk, duct tape, chloroform. ***? Put the pieces together jury!

Why would George lie about an accidental drowning? He wouldn't! He's a cop!

It makes not sense. There's your reasonable doubt!

Cassie killed her child, and she got away with it.

She's scheduled to walk out of jail on Thursday. The jury asked that the charges she was found guilty on (lying to law enforcement) would be prosecuted as time served. In other words, she'll walk out of jail (if the judge agrees) a free woman.

Question is, will she be free? She can't go anywhere in the US, or Canada for that matter, without people coming after her to make her pay for what the majority of this world (minus 12 idiots) knows she did.

She may be out of jail, but she'll never be "free".

Alty, 100% agree. Every word makes sense.

Okay, as promised, I'm keeping this conversation here.

Truth is, I'm mad. I'm mad that Cassie/Cassey/murderer, is free.

I don't know what to say other then to say that I'm shocked.

Who parties when their child dies, even if it's an accident? Who covers up an accidental drowning? Who dumps their child in the woods, puts duct tape on her mouth, a heart sticker on the duct tape, and then a few days later enters a hot body contest at a bar?

They claim she was molested. So what? I was molested! Both my kids are alive!

If one of my kids died, I'd die!

That's enough evidence for me.

You know, Alty, I just didn't think about it the way you did. And you're right.

Here I am, with every reasonable fiber of my being screaming "GUILTY!"... but I am defending the jury decision because there wasn't enough "hard" evidence.

I'm a little disappointed in myself, I'll be honest :-/

but I am defending the jury decision because there wasn't enough "hard" evidence.
She may be guilty, but the prosecution messed up and didn't prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

I think she did it too . But ;None of the forensics stood up to cross examination. The prosecution never proved a murder happened let alone that it was Casey who did it. 85 searches for cholorform became one web search during questioning .
Oh the evidence proved she was a rotten mother and a liar no doubt about that . But they never proved she killed her daughter (1st degree) .

I think in retrospect the prosecution should've gone for a lesser charge. I think they went for the whole ball of wax because they were trying to force the defense into a plea. That's the risk they took .

I think she was negligent and the child fell in the pool . She then tried to cover it up. There is a charge there somewhere that isn't 1st degree murder.

Nope, I fully believe she set out with full intentions of killing her child.

You know, Alty, I just didn't think about it the way you did. And you're right.

Here I am, with every reasonable fiber of my being screaming "GUILTY!"...but I am defending the jury decision because there wasn't enough "hard" evidence.

I'm a little disappointed in myself, I'll be honest :-/

Don't be disappointed in yourself.

The fact is, we've all become jaded because of TV.

Question. Do you watch CSI? Do you watch any of the forensic dramas?

If so, you're like all of us. You've learned to expect hard evidence. You want the DNA, the fingerprints, the witnesses, the video.

The fact is, life isn't like TV.

The prosecution proved their case. The defense made the suggestion that Caylee drowned. No proof. Why would George put his daughter through a trial, facing the death penalty, duct taping his dead granddaughters mouth, placing her in 2 garbage bags and a laundry bag, then put a heart sticker on the duct tape, and dump her like trash? He's a cop! He knows accidents happen. Accidental drowning? Bull! Accidental drownings never go unreported. That was stated by an expert for the prosecution.

So, if it's not a drowning, let's look at the evidence.

There was chloroform found on the scene. The duct tape is fact, and the heart sticker is too. The fact that Caylee was placed in 2 garbage bags, and a laundry bag, and dumped like trash in the woods, Cassie borrows a shovel from the neighbors, 2 dogs hit on the backyard (My thought, Cassie tried to bury Caylee in the yard, but couldn't. I've been there. We dug a grave for our dog, could only get a few feet in before we hit clay). Two dogs hit on the trunk of the car, multiple people say it smelled like a dead body was inside the trunk. Thirty one days Cassie tells no one that Caylee is missing, lies when she's found 31 days later, in the meantime, it's party time. When she's finally found, she claims a kidnapping. For three years she sits in jail, still claiming her daughter was kidnapped, talking to her dad (the man that supposedly was there when Caylee drowned), saying she feels Caylee is alive. She lies, lies, lies, lies, lies. She parties, knowing that her child is dead (no matter which story you believe, murder or drowning, Cassie knows Caylee is dead, but enters a hot body contest, rents videos, lives it up). She gets a tattoo proclaiming her freedom.

I could go on.

How does the jury find this as evidence of innocence?

Where's the evidence of drowning?

There's none.

Evidence of murder? Well, there's no video, no fingerprints, no DNA. Caylee was dumped like garbage in a place that was underwater for months. DNA and fingerprints can't survive that.

Sorry, I'm just shocked!

Fact is, Cassie will probably write a book about all of this, do numerous interviews, and no one can touch her. She could admit that she killed her daughter on national TV, and since she's been found innocent of 1st degree murder, aggravated child neglect, aggravated manslaughter, no one can touch her. She'll live as a pariah, but a rich one, all because she killed her child!

The jury is suggesting to the judge that Cassie be released by Thursday, time served for the charges (lying to law enforcement). She could be free by Thursday.

Caylee, her little body left with duct tap on her mouth, chloroform found nearby, chloroform present in the trunk, where she died, body decomposed in a garbage dump. Caylee will never be free. Caylee will never see justice. Caylee will never grow up. RIP Caylee, beautiful girl. I'm so sorry that someone couldn't find justice for you. I'm so sorry that you got the cards you were dealt, the womb you were dealt. You deserve more!

Caylee didn't even live 3 years on this earth. She's dead now because of Cassie.

I don't give a rats arse if Cassie was molested. I've been there. For years, starting when I was 5, I was molested by my cousin. I won't even tell you the details. It's enough that they're in my head. My kids? They're alive and well, thriving, they will never know what I suffered. They will live their lives better then I did. Hopefully they will thrive from the love they're given.

So what if Cassie was molested? Even if she was, which I don't believe, does that give her the right to kill her child? Little note. The cousin that molested me, she's not allowed anywhere near my kids. I have nothing to do with her. But, George, and Lee Cassie's supposed molesters were not only allowed near Caylee, but many times were asked to watch her, unsupervised. Bull!

It doesn't make sense.

The jury is blind!

Thanks to them, a murderer is free. :(

I hope Karma does its thing. That's the only hope left here. :(

Nope, I fully believe she set out with full intentions of killing her child.

Me too!

I don't buy the accidental drowning crap.

If it was accidental, who in their right mind would sit in jail for 3 years pretending their child was kidnapped, when it was an accidental drowning?

What father (especially an ex cop), would allow their child to sit in jail, face the death penalty, if it was an accidental drowning?

It doesn't make sense!

Even experts said that 1st degree murder was a long shot, but I'm surprised the jury didn't convict her of either or both of the manslaughter and child abuse charges. The evidence seemed strong and juries tend to convict defendants who are proven liars and who don't act in the perceived "correct" way that a grieving parent should act. It's a shame that she will walk while many innocent people like the West Memphis Three in Arkansas who have been in jail and death row since 1993 when it is obvious to anyone who has followed the case that they are totally innocent. I hope they get freedom someday soon.

If one of my kids died, I'd die!

That's because you are a good parent. My feelings on that are the same.

She doesn't deserve freedom, but she's getting it, and it makes me wonder how many others get away with murder. That's what happened here. Casey got away with murder.

Very sad! Very!

Our system is so jaded, and is so very wrong.

Our system is so jaded, and is so very wrong.
There's nothing wrong with the system. It works very well. There was too much circumstantial evidence, and the prosecution went down the wrong path.

There's nothing wrong with the system. It works very well. There was too much circumstantial evidence, and the defense went down the wrong path.

Which upsets me very much!

WG, after I reread the last few posts, and mine, I realized that what I said about our system, came out wrong. That's not at all what I meant. Actually, how you put it, is exactly how I feel.

I spoke too soon without thinking how I wanted to say it. Its been happening to me all day long with my posts. Off day, I guess.

WG, after I reread the last few posts, and mine, I realized that what I said about our system, came out wrong. That's not at all what I meant. Actually, how you put it, is exactly how I feel.

I spoke too soon without thinking how I wanted to say it. Its been happening to me all day long with my posts. Off day, I guess.
I know exactly how you feel.

The problem here is that, somehow, the prosecution was so off that the jury couldn't convict Casey. Oh to be a fly on the wall in that jury room. HOW they are going to sleep tonight is beyond me...

That prosecution is tragic, poor little Caylee.

Oh to be a fly on the wall in that jury room.
I look forward to hearing/reading the dissections of the verdict and comments from the jury. I always wanted to be a criminal defense attorney in a John Grisham novel.

The case has not been big over here, but can I ask, if the mother is being set free and not being done for murder, who is?

The child is still dead, if they did not have enough evidence to put the mother away, who are they looking at now? Or willl it become a cold case?

willl it become a cold case?
Yup. No one else is under suspicion at this point.

That's terrible.

I guess in this case justice is blind, however, there's always divine justice, if the mother did murder her child she will never rid that stain, no matter how hard she tries, that's the stuff of nightmares and dark nights of the soul.

Okay, as promised, I'm keeping this conversation here.

Truth is, I'm mad. I'm mad that Cassie/Cassey/murderer, is free.

I don't know what to say other then to say that I'm shocked.

Who parties when their child dies, even if it's an accident? Who covers up an accidental drowning? Who dumps their child in the woods, puts duct tape on her mouth, a heart sticker on the duct tape, and then a few days later enters a hot body contest at a bar?

They claim she was molested. So what? I was molested! Both my kids are alive!

If one of my kids died, I'd die!

That's enough evidence for me.

Exactly. If I had been a juror I wouldn't give a fig exactly what charge she was technically guilty of she sure as hell was guilty of something evil.

It makes my blood boil when the defense come up with molestation during the defendent's own childhood as an excuse. Many many people have been molested, myself and friends I know included. Without exception the people I know are lovely compassionate caring people whose experiences have made them more, not less, likely to try their damndest to keep their own and all kids as safe and happy as possible.

There's just no excuse. Some people are just evil and selfish to the bone.

Fla rules are pretty strict on charges. I think the judges instructions gave them no option to convict on a lesser charge. This was a clear case of prosecutorial over-reach. Most times they get away with it . Sometimes the juries follow the letter of the law.

I can only hope her own personal hell is so horrible, any jail would pale in comparison.

Hey guys. Alty pointed me here from Facebook.

I was at a BBQ for the holiday and they had the TV on in the garage with the trial. One friend of mine feels she was using chloroform to make her sleep so she could go out more. Then she possibly used too much which killed her.

That sounded logical to me. But I honestly don't know exactly how chloroform works nor do I care. But I do feel for one there will be some sort of suicide resulting from this case. If she doesn't commit suicide from all the negative press and stress her new life will have for walking free then I am sure one of the jurors will. If those people involved in the choice to let her walk free don't realize the mistake they made and they can sleep at night then I hope they rot in hell. Did I just say that? I am sure it was beyond stressful for them but my gosh can't they see her actions? I know we all agree here. It just amazes me.

I have a friend on Facebook who instantly wrote that the system was right letting her go and it was all good and he was glad to see how the system is working. I started to reply in rage. I had a few choice words for him. But then I stopped and just moved past it. We all have our own opinions on this. But I know the majority will rule that lying sl-t should rot in prison. Suicide is to good for her.

Hey guys. Alty pointed me here from Facebook.

I was at a BBQ for the holiday and they had the tv on in the garage with the trial. One friend of mine feels she was using chloroform to make her sleep so she could go out more. Then she possibly used to much which killed her.



Chloroform is a controlled substance; did that suggestion come up in the trial because I don't know where she would have got it to use that readily. Now if you go for sleeping pills, then I would think that would be plausible, and just a 'little bit more then necessary' would kill a toddler.

She is still to be charged on a few counts so is not out of court and free yet. She has been in prison for three years already and will do more prison time under the other charges. I don't know where she is spending her time, but usually people who abuse or kill children don't last long in the penal system and are sometimes dispatched by other inmates.

Tick

I have a friend on Facebook who instantly wrote that the system was right letting her go and it was all good and he was glad to see how the system is working. I started to reply in rage. I had a few choice words for him. But then I stopped and just moved past it. We all have our own opinions on this. But I know the majority will rule that lying sl-t should rot in prison. Suicide is to good for her.

My hat is off to you, sunny, you showed great control in letting that go. It must have been difficult. I only wish some of us could do it that readily. That 'send' button is sometimes too tempting and once it goes, well, it goes.

Tick

I agree, that must have been hard Sunny, I don't know if I could have held the same self control. You know, who cares what she used to make her little one go to sleep, it's all disgusting. That poor girl. How could anyone sit there and think she is not guilty? Even her own mother believed she was guilty. My mother and I haven't always had the best relationship, but I know my mom is always on my side and she is also the person who knows me the best. If I did this disgusting crime, she would know. Her mother knew, just like we all know, that cow did it.

I didn't want to give up my carefree life either, but heck, that's life! Nothing is more important to me than my daughter and her well being. Yea there were lots of times I wanted to go out with friends, but being a single mom did not allow that. It makes me wonder why she just didn't give up custody? Give her to her parents, an aunt, a friend ANYONE! It makes me want to have a safe haven in my house. I wonder how you would go about doing that.

You're right Sunny, suicide is too good for her. She doesn't deserve to get off that easy. She deserves to relive her horrible actions every day and be tormented by the public. Sadly she probably thinks in her mind she is innocent.

Chloroform is a controlled substance; did that suggestion come up in the trial because I dont know where she would have got it to use that readily. Now if you go for sleeping pills, then I would think that would be plausible, and just a 'little bit more then necessary' would kill a toddler.

She is still to be charged on a few counts so is not out of court and free yet. She has been in prison for three years already and will do more prison time under the other charges. I dont know where she is spending her time, but usually people who abuse or kill children dont last long in the penal system and are sometimes dispatched by other inmates.

tick

I believe they mentioned she was in P.C (protective custody).

Just a quick note. Media talked to one of the jurors, I believe it was juror number 3, and that juror said that the verdict made him/her sick. So why not guilty? If the verdict isn't what you wanted, why agree?

I really believe that the jury felt that she is guilty, they just didn't feel she was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Someone asked if they're looking at anyone else for the death of Caylee. No, they're not. Casey admitted that she was there when Caylee died. She lied in the beginning, saying Caylee was kidnapped by someone known as Zanny. That person doesn't exist. Casey sad in jail for three years and now claims that the death was accidental, Caylee drowned in the family pooil, George found the body, Casey was there, and George (the dad) convinced Casey that she'd go to jail if she reported the accidental drowning.

We're supposed to believe that Casey (the narcissist party girl) , sat in jail for 3 years, kept telling everyone that Caylee was kidnapped, without telling anyone that it was an accident, which isn't chargeable? Worse, we're supposed to believe that her father, George, allowed his daughter to go on trial, face the death penalty, for something he knew was an accidental drowning?

Bull!

I guess the jury believed it though, because Casey is not guilty.

If they don't believe she's guilty of murder, then they have to believe that Caylee drowned accidentally, somehow ended up with chloroform in her body, duct tape on her mouth, stuffed in two garbage bags, a laundry bag, put in the trunk of mommies car, and dumped like garbage in the woods, while her mother partied it up, hid for 31 days, and then claimed she was kidnapped. After all, that's how all accidental drownings happen.

Yup, that makes perfect sense. NOT! :(

I can only hope her own personal hell is so horrible, any jail would pale in comparison.

Watch... She'll most likely have a made for television movie come out and someone like Jennifer Love Hewitt will play her part. :rolleyes:

Unbelievable!

There's nothing wrong with the system. It works very well. There was too much circumstantial evidence, and the prosecution went down the wrong path.

There can't be "too much" circumstantial evidence! That's like saying Mozart had "too many" notes in his operas. (Line from AMADEUS)). Doesn't make sense.

What was the "right" path the prosecution should have gone down?

Watch... She'll most likely have a made for television movie come out and someone like Jennifer Love Hewitt will play her part. :rolleyes:

Unbelievable!

Hah! Alty and I were talking about that same thing last night. A book or a made for t.v movie and she will be living large. I totally agree.


There can't be "too much" circumstantial evidence! That's like saying Mozart had "too many" notes in his operas. (Line from AMADEUS)). Doesn't make sense.


I agree, I thought it was because there wasn't enough circumstantial evidence.

She may be guilty, but the prosecution messed up and didn't prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

They absolutely DID prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. The problem is that the jury was not instructed on what "reasonable doubt" means.

Please advise where the prosecution "messed up".

They absolutely DID prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. The problem is that the jury was not instructed on what "reasonable doubt" means.

Please advise where the prosecution "messed up".

Greenie for Athos!

I agree, the prosecution did prove their case, the jury just didn't understand what "reasonable" doubt means.

There was not reasonable doubt! Casey is guilty, beyond a doubt.

Greenie for Athos!

I agree, the prosecution did prove their case, the jury just didn't understand what "reasonable" doubt means.

There was not reasonable doubt! Casey is guilty, beyond a doubt.

Thanks - greenie for you too after reading your take on this in earlier threads.

There's another thread going on with the same players

Current events - "Casey Anthony Goes Free"

There can't be "too much" circumstantial evidence!
Let me rephrase that. There was too much evidence that was circumstantial. None of it could be linked to Casey.

Watch... She'll most likely have a made for television movie come out and someone like Jennifer Love Hewitt will play her part. :rolleyes:

Unbelievable!

If any body out there took on this role then shame on them. I just couldn't be paid enough money to even think of it.

If any body out there took on this role then shame on them. I just couldn't be paid enough money to even think of it.

I agree, I wouldn't either.

Unfortunately though, someone would.

Let me rephrase that. There was too much evidence that was circumstantial. None of it could be linked to Casey.

With all due respect, I don't think you understand what "circumstantial evidence" is. In this case, ALL the evidence was circumstantial. There was no "smoking gun". Nobody got up on the witness stand and said, "There she is. She killed Caylee. I saw her".

Trials are commonly conducted without direct evidence. Circumstantial can be just as damning - and sometimes more so since eyewitnesses (a form of direct) are notoriously unreliable. True, this case had no direct evidence, but the circumstances overwhelmingly point to guilt. OVERWHELMINGLY.

The inferences of the events point to one person - and one person only. The mother- Casey Anthony. I can't rehash the whole case here, but Altenweg has given a good summary (others have posted other damning details) of the evidence.

As I've said before, the jury misunderstood its role. Like you, they may have been looking for that smoking gun, and, not finding it, voted for acquittal.

The inferences of the events point to one person - and one person only.
I thought our legal system didn't decide cases on inferences.

I thought our legal system didn't decide cases on inferences.

Then you thought wrong. Circumstantial evidence, by definition, REQUIRES inferences and assumptions.

You're not alone. Most people don't understand what circumstantial evidence is - after several decades of TV Perry Mason stuff where the conclusion is always super-dramatic. Nor do most people understand what "reasonable doubt" means.

That's why it's critical for a Judge to explain these concepts to every sitting jury.

Then you thought wrong. Circumstantial evidence, by definition, REQUIRES inferences and assumptions.
And people who were put in jail for life for murders it was inferred they had done are now able to use DNA (hard) evidence to exonerate themselves.

And people who were put in jail for life for murders it was inferred they had done are now able to use DNA (hard) evidence to exonerate themselves.

I'm sorry but this is silly if you're presenting a case against circumstantial evidence.

Of course, DNA can be used to exonerate someone EVEN IF THEY WERE CONVICTED BY DIRECT EVIDENCE.

Circumstantial or direct - it doesn't matter. New evidence is new evidence, regardless.

No offense, but I've given you what the law states. You can do your own research on these topics by calling your local library (that was a joke).

I'm sorry but this is silly if you're presenting a case against circumstantial evidence.
I apologize. You're right; I'm wrong.

I apologize. You're right; I'm wrong.

Thank you.

Okay, WG did admit that she didn't follow the trial, so, to make it clear, I'll try my best to explain it in a post. Maybe then WG will see why we believe what we believe, and the majority of the world believes.

Two and a half your old girl named Caylee. Her mom is Casey. Casey and Caylee live with George and Cindy, Casey's parents. George and Cindy not only provide for Casey and Caylee, they're pretty much the only ones that care for the child.

Casey says she has a job. She gets up and goes to "work" every day and Universal studios. Thing is, she doesn't work there, hasn't in years, but she lies to her parents and says she does.

Casey also makes up a nanny by the name of Zanny. George and Cindy never meet her, but hear about her often. When they're not available to care for Caylee, Casey takes her to Zanny. One problem. Zanny doesn't exist any more then the job Casey has.

One day Casey and Caylee disappear from the family home. George and Cindy try to contact Casey, they miss Caylee, the want to see her. No go.

31 days go by. Finally Casey is found. After much deliberation Casey finally tells Cindy that Caylee has been kidnapped by Zanny, the no existent nanny. Well, Cindy doesn't know this. Cindy calls 911. The third call she finally convinces the operator to take her seriously. The most damning part of the call, they found Casey's car, and it smells like a dead body was in the trunk.

In the 31 days that Caylee was missing, Casey claims she was looking for her. Well, if entering a hot body contest at a bar 4 days after your 2 year old goes missing is looking, then I guess that's what she was doing. Of course, at this point Caylee was already dead, and per Casey's attorney, Casey knew her daughter was dead, because she claims the baby drowned in the pool.

Fast forward. For 3 years, while awaiting trial, Casey never changes her story. Caylee was kidnapped by Zanny the nanny. The smell in the car (which two dogs trained to detect human decomposition hit on) is just a coincidence. The hair, belonging to Caylee, with post mortem banding on the root, just a coincidence. The 84 visits to a site on how to make chloroform, just a coincidence. The other searches, some of which were "how to break someone's neck", just a coincidence. But I digress.

Six months after Caylee goes missing, her remains are found, right by the Anthony home. She was dumped in the woods, where much of the locals dump their garbage. She was placed in two garbage bags, and a laundry bag. A syringe with chloroform was found near her remains, and there was duct tape over her mouth and her nose.

Side note, chloroform was also detected in the trunk of Casey's car.

Well, the trial comes about. All of a sudden, after 3 years in jail claiming her daughter was kidnapped, Casey says that Caylee drowned in the pool, but, because she was molested as a child, she lied, because that's what she does. Her father found the body, told Casey that she would be found guilty of being a bad mom, and her father disposed of the body. Her dad, a cop!

So, we're to believe that her dad, George, a former cop, not only didn't call the police about an accidental drowning, but put duct tape over his beloved grand daughters mouth, put her in trash bags and a laundry bag, and then threw her away like trash, but, he also let his daughter sit in jail for 3 years, face the death penalty, over something he knew was an accident and not punishable by law. Ya, that makes sense. :(

So please, tell me, where is there a shadow of a doubt, because I'm not seeing it, and I know I missed some of the details which would make this entire case even more damning.

Casey Anthony is guilty, there is no reasonable doubt. No, there's no video, no DNA or fingerprints (the dump site was under water for months), and no eye witness. But I can tell you one thing, if this child died in the pool, why the chloroform, duct tape, no call to police, hiding for 31 days, post mortem hair found in the trunk of the car, cadaver dogs hitting on the car... etc. etc. Casey admits to knowing when Caylee died. So, you have to believe one of the two stories. Either Caylee drowned in the pool, and somehow ended up thrown away like trash with duct tape and chloroform, or she was murdered.

Which story makes more sense?

Okay, WG did admit that she didn't follow the trial, so, to make it clear, I'll try my best to explain it in a post. Maybe then WG will see why we believe what we believe, and the majority of the world believes.

Two and a half your old girl named Caylee. Her mom is Casey. Casey and Caylee live with George and Cindy, Casey's parents. George and Cindy not only provide for Casey and Caylee, they're pretty much the only ones that care for the child.

Casey says she has a job. She gets up and goes to "work" every day and Universal studios. Thing is, she doesn't work there, hasn't in years, but she lies to her parents and says she does.

Casey also makes up a nanny by the name of Zanny. George and Cindy never meet her, but hear about her often. When they're not available to care for Caylee, Casey takes her to Zanny. One problem. Zanny doesn't exist any more then the job Casey has.

One day Casey and Caylee disappear from the family home. George and Cindy try to contact Casey, they miss Caylee, the want to see her. No go.

31 days go by. Finally Casey is found. After much deliberation Casey finally tells Cindy that Caylee has been kidnapped by Zanny, the no existent nanny. Well, Cindy doesn't know this. Cindy calls 911. The third call she finally convinces the operator to take her seriously. The most damning part of the call, they found Casey's car, and it smells like a dead body was in the trunk.

In the 31 days that Caylee was missing, Casey claims she was looking for her. Well, if entering a hot body contest at a bar 4 days after your 2 year old goes missing is looking, then I guess that's what she was doing. Of course, at this point Caylee was already dead, and per Casey's attorney, Casey knew her daughter was dead, because she claims the baby drowned in the pool.

Fast forward. For 3 years, while awaiting trial, Casey never changes her story. Caylee was kidnapped by Zanny the nanny. The smell in the car (which two dogs trained to detect human decomposition hit on) is just a coincidence. The hair, belonging to Caylee, with post mortem banding on the root, just a coincidence. The 84 visits to a site on how to make chloroform, just a coincidence. The other searches, some of which were "how to break someone's neck", just a coincidence. But I digress.

Six months after Caylee goes missing, her remains are found, right by the Anthony home. She was dumped in the woods, where much of the locals dump their garbage. She was placed in two garbage bags, and a laundry bag. A syringe with chloroform was found near her remains, and there was duct tape over her mouth and her nose.

Side note, chloroform was also detected in the trunk of Casey's car.

Well, the trial comes about. All of a sudden, after 3 years in jail claiming her daughter was kidnapped, Casey says that Caylee drowned in the pool, but, because she was molested as a child, she lied, because that's what she does. Her father found the body, told Casey that she would be found guilty of being a bad mom, and her father disposed of the body. Her dad, a cop!

So, we're to believe that her dad, George, a former cop, not only didn't call the police about an accidental drowning, but put duct tape over his beloved grand daughters mouth, put her in trash bags and a laundry bag, and then threw her away like trash, but, he also let his daughter sit in jail for 3 years, face the death penalty, over something he knew was an accident and not punishable by law. Ya, that makes sense. :(

So please, tell me, where is there a shadow of a doubt, because I'm not seeing it, and I know I missed some of the details which would make this entire case even more damning.

Casey Anthony is guilty, there is no reasonable doubt. No, there's no video, no DNA or fingerprints (the dump site was under water for months), and no eye witness. But I can tell you one thing, if this child died in the pool, why the chloroform, duct tape, no call to police, hiding for 31 days, post mortem hair found in the trunk of the car, cadaver dogs hitting on the car...etc. etc. Casey admits to knowing when Caylee died. So, you have to believe one of the two stories. Either Caylee drowned in the pool, and somehow ended up thrown away like trash with duct tape and chloroform, or she was murdered.

Which story makes more sense?

Well done, Altenweg. In fact, superbly done!

I know that took you time and effort to focus your thoughts, get things straight time-wise, and still manage to make a complex case understandable for those who didn't see it on the TV.

I, for one, appreciate very much what you did.

Most importantly, far beyond any greenie anyone could give here, you've given some justice to a little innocent girl who did not deserve the treatment she received from her mother.

The world weeps for that precious child.

Okay, WG did admit that she didn't follow the trial, so, to make it clear, I'll try my best to explain it in a post. Maybe then WG will see why we believe what we believe, and the majority of the world believes.

Two and a half your old girl named Caylee. Her mom is Casey. Casey and Caylee live with George and Cindy, Casey's parents. George and Cindy not only provide for Casey and Caylee, they're pretty much the only ones that care for the child.

Casey says she has a job. She gets up and goes to "work" every day and Universal studios. Thing is, she doesn't work there, hasn't in years, but she lies to her parents and says she does.

Casey also makes up a nanny by the name of Zanny. George and Cindy never meet her, but hear about her often. When they're not available to care for Caylee, Casey takes her to Zanny. One problem. Zanny doesn't exist any more then the job Casey has.

One day Casey and Caylee disappear from the family home. George and Cindy try to contact Casey, they miss Caylee, the want to see her. No go.

31 days go by. Finally Casey is found. After much deliberation Casey finally tells Cindy that Caylee has been kidnapped by Zanny, the no existent nanny. Well, Cindy doesn't know this. Cindy calls 911. The third call she finally convinces the operator to take her seriously. The most damning part of the call, they found Casey's car, and it smells like a dead body was in the trunk.

In the 31 days that Caylee was missing, Casey claims she was looking for her. Well, if entering a hot body contest at a bar 4 days after your 2 year old goes missing is looking, then I guess that's what she was doing. Of course, at this point Caylee was already dead, and per Casey's attorney, Casey knew her daughter was dead, because she claims the baby drowned in the pool.

Fast forward. For 3 years, while awaiting trial, Casey never changes her story. Caylee was kidnapped by Zanny the nanny. The smell in the car (which two dogs trained to detect human decomposition hit on) is just a coincidence. The hair, belonging to Caylee, with post mortem banding on the root, just a coincidence. The 84 visits to a site on how to make chloroform, just a coincidence. The other searches, some of which were "how to break someone's neck", just a coincidence. But I digress.

Six months after Caylee goes missing, her remains are found, right by the Anthony home. She was dumped in the woods, where much of the locals dump their garbage. She was placed in two garbage bags, and a laundry bag. A syringe with chloroform was found near her remains, and there was duct tape over her mouth and her nose.

Side note, chloroform was also detected in the trunk of Casey's car.

Well, the trial comes about. All of a sudden, after 3 years in jail claiming her daughter was kidnapped, Casey says that Caylee drowned in the pool, but, because she was molested as a child, she lied, because that's what she does. Her father found the body, told Casey that she would be found guilty of being a bad mom, and her father disposed of the body. Her dad, a cop!

So, we're to believe that her dad, George, a former cop, not only didn't call the police about an accidental drowning, but put duct tape over his beloved grand daughters mouth, put her in trash bags and a laundry bag, and then threw her away like trash, but, he also let his daughter sit in jail for 3 years, face the death penalty, over something he knew was an accident and not punishable by law. Ya, that makes sense. :(

So please, tell me, where is there a shadow of a doubt, because I'm not seeing it, and I know I missed some of the details which would make this entire case even more damning.

Casey Anthony is guilty, there is no reasonable doubt. No, there's no video, no DNA or fingerprints (the dump site was under water for months), and no eye witness. But I can tell you one thing, if this child died in the pool, why the chloroform, duct tape, no call to police, hiding for 31 days, post mortem hair found in the trunk of the car, cadaver dogs hitting on the car...etc. etc. Casey admits to knowing when Caylee died. So, you have to believe one of the two stories. Either Caylee drowned in the pool, and somehow ended up thrown away like trash with duct tape and chloroform, or she was murdered.

Which story makes more sense?

Very well put Alty!

Many greenies for you!

Most importantly, far beyond any greenie anyone could give here, you've given some justice to a little innocent girl who did not deserve the treatment she received from her mother.

The world weeps for that precious child.

If only words could give this precious child peace. I wish I could do that just by typing, but it can't be done. Thank you for your words, they brought tears to my eyes. I'm still in shock over all of this. Casey should be rotting in jail, instead, she'll likely be free, having served 3 years for the charges she was found guilty of, lying to police, 4 counts. Each of those carries a 1 year jail term. The most she's looking at is 1 year more in jail, but the more likely is that she'll walk with time served. :(

That precious beautiful child will never see her 3rd birthday, she'll never go to school, she'll never fall in love, never walk down the aisle, never have children of her own.

Her mother on the other hand, will be free, will likely make millions off book deals and movie deals. More importantly, her mother got away with murder. It's not right.

I weep over this. It haunts me. This isn't right. This is about one thing, and one thing only. A child. A child that deserved to live. A child that deserved better then she got.

Instead, her body was left to rot in the woods, with duct tape over her mouth and nose, put in trash bags, a laundry bag, chloroform in her little body, tossed away like garbage. This isn't an accident! This was murder, and the murderer got away with it.

It's just not right. It pains me. The only thing I can do is hug my two children, let them know how much I love them, and hope that evil never finds them. But then, how can it not? Evil has been set free. Justice failed. :(

Very well put Alty!

Many greenies for you!

Thanks Enigma. I wish I could say all I want to say. It's so hard to get it all out in writing.

The only thing left to say is this, RIP Caylee. Your time on this Earth was short, but you made an impact. I wish that we had found justice for you sweet girl, but it's not to be. My only hope now is that you went quickly, that you didn't suffer, that you had no fear, just peace. I can only hope that peace is what you have now. In tears I write this. I wish with all my heart that you could have had better. I wish with all my heart that you had been mine. Your life would have meant life, and love unconditional. I can't give you that, I can only pray that you find peace.

RIP Caylee.

And just to add to what Alty has said.

I really hope that Caylee has no idea what happened. I hope that she doesn't know or remember that her Mother, Casey, murdered her only Daughter.

And just to add to what Alty has said.

I really hope that Caylee has no idea what happend. I hope that she doesn't know or remember that her Mother, Casey, murdered her only Daughter.

That's my hope too. It's bad enough that we know that she did it.

Something I want to add.

Many of you know that our dog Indy is old, 16 years, and that I've been wanting to put him down for a while. He can barely walk, he has trouble breathing, etc. etc. He's just really old.

Well, hubbies cousin just started a new business, he's cremating pets. So I called him, asked how much he charged. He said that for us, family, it would be free, and we'd get the ashes back in an urn.

So I told him that we're likely going to do this in the next month, I just have to save the money, make the appointment, and go through with it. This is over a year of hubby and I going back and forth, hoping not to make the decision.

Well, hubbies cousin is a hunter, and a pet lover. He's one of those men that will take his sick dog into the woods, and put a bullet in his brain. Quick, painless, done.

So, he offered to do that with Indy. My response. NO! I can't. First, I want to be there with him, I want to hold him, I want his last memories to be of me and hubby loving him, being there with him until the end. I don't want his last image to be of a shotgun aimed at his head, no loved ones around. I can't be there for that. I couldn't watch that. It would kill me.

Having said that, and knowing that Indy would likely not even see the shotgun, or notice that R and I aren't there, and the fact that this is my dog, and yes, he's my family, someone I love, but, he's not my child, he's my dog, I can only hope that a child, a human being, a young person that knows mommy, sees and hears everything, doesn't know that her mother ended her life. I only hope she went to sleep and doesn't know anything else.

Let's all hope that at least to Caylee, Casey is innocent, even though we all know differently. Let's hope that Caylee died not knowing what a monster her mother is.

Check out this story (http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top_stories/story/Attorney-wants-Utah-murder-case-hearings-closed/S0zLw1IVxEW_s0yFx8fjvw.cspx). I'm not sure if this is appropriate to post in this thread, but it totally made me think about all of this.

Check out this story (http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top_stories/story/Attorney-wants-Utah-murder-case-hearings-closed/S0zLw1IVxEW_s0yFx8fjvw.cspx). I'm not sure if this is appropriate to post in this thread, but it totally made me think about all of this.

Obviously the media had no influence on Casey's trial. If it had, she'd rot in jail.

Obviously the media had no influence on Casey's trial. If it had, she'd rot in jail.

I know, this article was on June 24th... I wonder how the defense attorney feels now?

I've been extremely upset over this Caylee thing. And it only reminds me that murders go unjustified all the time. We aren't omniscient, but we should be.

And we need more vigilantes.

IT's a horrible story of murder and how the justice system has failed this one little girl. You can say there is nothing wrong with the American justice system, but where is the justice for this one little girl? This little girl who's mother has mocked her lost innocence. There is nothing right or fair about this. I am a thousand miles away and my heart breaks for this poor little girl. The questions we all want answered but will never have. If no Zanny existed, then where was poor Caylee? I can only imagine he neglect and sadness this little girl endured for her short two years of life. Casey had many options, murder should not have even crossed her mind.

I am sick at heart over this misguided justice system we have in this country. People have been convicted on less than this case presented. Still wondering what happened. I was not in the courtroom listening each day so I could not tell who said what. Could not force myself to watch this case on Court TV as it infuriated me so much. And now her mom goes essentially free. I am sure that there will be a book written by a good author like Ann Rule which will help me understand what happened and who dropped the ball.

It makes all the other would be murders think they can get away with murdering their family members.

What has this country come to?

{Sadly shakes her head}

Well, Casey gets out Next Sunday. She already has one offer of 1 million dollars to appear in an interview. She'll be rich.

So, what lesson have we taught the public? If you want to become a millionaire, murder your child, find a jury of 12 people that can't see the truth, when 2/3 of the country thinks you're guilty, be found innocent, then live free of the child that you didn't want, and rake in the dough.

The new American way. Why work when killing your child will make you rich? :( :( :(

be found innocent
She was not found to be innocent.

I think along with some of the media, that the jury was wanting or expecting something out of CSI and other TV crime shows, they show how you can take a 20 year old dead body and find DNA, fingerprints and more.

Of course the same CSI rep, is the person in the field, then drives to the lab with the evidence and even goes to testify in court.

She was not found to be innocent.

She was found guilty of lying to police. But that's the only thing she was found guilty of.

She was found not guilty of murdering her child. Not guilty is innocent. Even if the jury doesn't believe she was completely innocent, they still set her free by delivering a not guilty verdict.

She serves another week and a day in jail. Not a just sentence for killing your child, IMO.

Not really, not guilty does not mean they are innocent, it only means there was not enough evidence to convict.
This difference is normally noted in legal study.

I think along with some of the media, that the jury was wanting or expecting something out of CSI and other TV crime shows, they show how you can take a 20 year old dead body and find DNA, fingerprints and more.

Of course the same CSI rep, is the person in the field, then drives to the lab with the evidence and even goes to testify in court.

Juror #3 was interviewed on TV, she said that in order to convict they expected to here a motive, how the child was killed, and where. She wanted witnesses to the crime, DNA, fingerprints.

Thank you television.

This baby was thrown away like trash in an area that was underwater for months. All trace evidence was washed away. Crimes rarely have witnesses, and witness testimony is not desirable in a case because witnesses are extremely unreliable.

I guess I have just one question for the jury. If the child wasn't murdered, what other reasonable scenario can they come up with that explains all the evidence? If they can't think of one, well, where's the reasonable doubt?

Not really, not guilty does not mean they are innocent, it only means there was not enough evidence to convict.
This difference is normally noted in legal study.

The way I look at it is Casey is free. She's walking away on 4 counts of lying to police with time served and time off for good behavior.

I agree, not guilty doesn't mean innocent, but then, if it isn't an innocent verdict, then where is the justice?

Plus most likely there will be no further police investigation, the police will still assume she did it and not really look for anyone else.

I guess I have just one question for the jury. If the child wasn't murdered
You KNOW absolutely that Casey killed Caylee, right?

You KNOW absolutely that Casey killed Caylee, right?

Of course I don't. I wasn't there.

The evidence in the case is overwhelming. No other scenario makes sense. If you actually view all the evidence, the behavior of Casey during the 31 days her daughter was supposedly missing (when she was in fact dead, lying in the woods and Casey knew that), the partying, the duct tape, the 84 visits to a site on how to make chloroform, the chloroform found at the scene, the duct tape over the babies mouth and nose, the heart sticker put on the duct tape, body stuffed in two garbage bags and a laundry bag, the smell of decomposition found in the trunk of Casey's car which two separate cadaver dogs hit on, the searches for how to break a neck, etc. etc. etc. etc.

I have to ask, what other reasonable scenario is there?

The medical examiner was asked how many accidental drownings go unreported (Casey's defense, after sitting in jail for 3 years, insisting that her daughter was kidnapped by a made up person), and the ME said that 100% of accidental drownings are reported.

That's more reliable then birth control.

So, we're to believe that Casey sat in jail for 3 years, claimed her daughter was kidnapped, when she actually drowned in the pool?

So why the duct tape, the chloroform, the garbage bags, the laundry bag, dumping the body like trash in a wooded area used by locals to dump trash, close to her home? Why hide it for 31 days while living it up?

WG, if you have another scenario to explain how this child died, I'd love to hear it.

Of course I don't. I wasn't there.
Neither were the jurors. And the prosecution could not even give conclusive evidence that Caylee had been killed by a human hand. She may have really drowned accidentally. There was no DNA evidence, no eyewitness, no confession, no body to autopsy. That's why all seventeen jurors (12 + the 5 alternates) to a person, with tears in their eyes, had to return a verdict of "not guilty" -- "not proven" -- "I don't know."

The jurors did not hear commentators ruminate, did not read the newspapers, did not even talk with each other or others involved in the trial during the trial. It was only during deliberation that they finally were able to discuss the case. All seventeen had no choice but to return a verdict of "not guilty."

Neither were the jurors. And the prosecution could not even give conclusive evidence that Caylee had been killed by a human hand. She may have really drowned accidentally. There was no DNA evidence, no eyewitness, no confession, no body to autopsy. That's why all seventeen jurors (12 + the 5 alternates) to a person, with tears in their eyes, had to return a verdict of "not guilty" -- "not proven" -- "I don't know."

The jurors did not hear commentators ruminate, did not read the newspapers, did not even talk with each other or others involved in the trial during the trial. It was only during deliberation that they finally were able to discuss the case. All seventeen had no choice but to return a verdict of "not guilty."

WG, there was an autopsy. The cause of death couldn't be determined. But, the Medical Examiner did say that she has never seen an accidental drowning go unreported. When asked on the stand how many accidental drownings are reported, she said 100%. That doesn't leave any wiggle room.

That same M.E. said that never in her many years as a medical examiner has she seen an accidental drowning where the child's mouth and nose were duct taped, the baby was wrapped in a blanket, stuffed into two garbage bags, a laundry bag, and then tossed away like garbage.

When asked for her professional opinion, she said that she wouldn't hesitate in saying that the cause of death was murder. So, who murdered her if not Casey?

A strand of Caylee's hair was found in the trunk of Casey's car. It had post mortem banding on it. In other words, that hair came from a dead body.

When you said that the jurors weren't there when Casey died, I have to ask. Is that what it would take? Is that the evidence needed? If so, then many murders will walk free, because there's very rarely a witness to the crime.

This is real life, not TV. You won't be lucky and get a video of the person killing the other person. There isn't always DNA. There aren't always fingerprints. There's very rarely witnesses. This is real life, and the case was damning, and still she was found not guilty of murder.

My thought, the jury wasn't instructed on what reasonable doubt is, because there is no reasonable doubt. The jury expected the video, the DNA, the fingerprints, etc. etc. They didn't understand that that's not the norm, that the way the body was placed, the fact that that area was under water for months, made all that evidence impossible to gather.

The presence of chloroform, a decomposing body, in the trunk of Casey's car, the bags, all the things I've mentioned over and over again. That's clear evidence to murder. It's not at all conducive to an accident.

So I ask again, if not murder, what's a reasonable scenario to what happened.

Remember, George was at work, as was Cindy. Casey was alone with Caylee. So, how did this baby die and end up tossed away like trash in the woods?

The cause of death couldn't be determined.
Thus the verdict. It doesn't matter a hill of beans what the ME says or thinks.

A strand of Caylee's hair was found in the trunk of Casey's car. It had post mortem banding on it. In other words, that hair came from a dead body.
And maybe Caylee drowned accidentally and Casey panicked. Remember, she isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.

So, how did this baby die and end up tossed away like trash in the woods?
Again, she may have drowned accidentally and Casey panicked.

I think I better unsubscribe from this thread.

WG, love you, but you yourself said that you didn't read about the case, didn't watch the trial, but here you are stating things that aren't even factual, defending the jurors for their verdict, when you yourself said you know nothing about this trial, which is obvious.

It just upsets me, because I have yet to speak to one person that actually followed this trial (not the stories on TV, but the actual trial), that thought Casey was innocent of murder.

I don't know what happened, but I do know that Casey killed her child. I wasn't there, but the evidence speaks for itself, and this baby killer is free as of next week.

It sickens me.

I can't talk about this further, I don't want to argue about this, especially when the facts aren't being stated. No disrespect intended, but if you haven't read the entire story, or seen the entire trial, or know all the details, you don't have the information needed to debate this, and you have no right to a verdict.

I'm out. This is just upsetting me, and the verdict itself was upsetting enough.

Love you all.

RIP Caylee, I wish you had found justice, but I hope you rest in peace.

36715

And maybe Caylee drowned accidentally and Casey panicked. Remember, she isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Oi!

Okay, one last comment before I unsubscribe.

So, the new story is that Caylee drowned and Casey panicked?

So, why the duct tape? Why the chloroform? Why the 84 visits to site on how to make chloroform before this child drowned (Casey visited those sites, it was proven the both Cindy and George were at work when the searches were made and the sties were visited, even though Cindy lied and tried to take the blame)? The visits on sites on how to break someone's neck, how to make household weapons, etc. etc. Why the garbage bags? Why the laundry bag? Why being thrown away like garbage in an area used by locals to toss their garbage? Why the lies that the child was kidnapped? Why the partying for 31 days while her daughter was lying in a ditch rotting? Why the tattoo? Why any of it?

That's just a few of the highlight of the actual evidence presented to the jury.

I suggest you watch the trial. Watch the actual evidence that was presented. Maybe then you'll see why I feel the way I do, and the way 2/3's of the population, most of which watched the trial, feel.

WG, there was an autopsy. The cause of death couldn't be determined. But, the Medical Examiner did say that she has never seen an accidental drowning go unreported. When asked on the stand how many accidental drownings are reported, she said 100%. That doesn't leave any wiggle room.

That same M.E. said that never in her many years as a medical examiner has she seen an accidental drowning where the child's mouth and nose were duct taped, the baby was wrapped in a blanket, stuffed into two garbage bags, a laundry bag, and then tossed away like garbage.

When asked for her professional opinion, she said that she wouldn't hesitate in saying that the cause of death was murder. So, who murdered her if not Casey?

A strand of Caylee's hair was found in the trunk of Casey's car. It had post mortem banding on it. In other words, that hair came from a dead body.

When you said that the jurors weren't there when Casey died, I have to ask. Is that what it would take? Is that the evidence needed? If so, then many murders will walk free, because there's very rarely a witness to the crime.

This is real life, not TV. You won't be lucky and get a video of the person killing the other person. There isn't always DNA. There aren't always fingerprints. There's very rarely witnesses. This is real life, and the case was damning, and still she was found not guilty of murder.

My thought, the jury wasn't instructed on what reasonable doubt is, because there is no reasonable doubt. The jury expected the video, the DNA, the fingerprints, etc. etc. They didn't understand that that's not the norm, that the way the body was placed, the fact that that area was under water for months, made all that evidence impossible to gather.

The presence of chloroform, a decomposing body, in the trunk of Casey's car, the bags, all the things I've mentioned over and over again. That's clear evidence to murder. It's not at all conducive to an accident.

So I ask again, if not murder, what's a reasonable scenario to what happened.

Remember, George was at work, as was Cindy. Casey was alone with Caylee. So, how did this baby die and end up tossed away like trash in the woods?

Your passion is compelling, Altenweg. But it's not just passion - again you have laid out the facts in such a logical fashion, that, imo, any reasonable person would come to the same conclusion as you have. And as I have.

Dear Wondergirl, NO, it's not ABSOLUTE proof. In law, no such standard exists. Is it beyond a reasonable doubt? In my opinion, it is. I respect your opinion, but I disagree with it.

WG, love youAlty, love you, but you yourself said you do not know whether Casey killed Caylee.

Casey was innocent of murder
I never said she is innocent of murder.

I don't know what happened, but I do know that Casey killed her child.
Why didn't you testify?

You DO NOT KNOW Casey killed her child. You know she was horrible about a lot of things after Caylee died, but you Do NOT KNOW that she killed her child.

WG, I have watched this entire thing for 3 years, since Casey was arrested.

I watched the entire trial. I've read everything and watched everything there was to see or read about this case. I don't know where you got that I didn't read about the case. If I typed that, typo, it happens.

I do know she killed her child, because the evidence leaves no room for doubt. There is no other scenario that makes sense.

I didn't testify because I'm not a witness. I am someone that knows a lot about this case simply because I've watched every second of it.

You say I don't know that she killed her child. I disagree. No, I wasn't there when she did it. I didn't see a video tape of her doing it, but I know without any doubt that she killed her child.

I'm against the death penalty. I'm glad I live in a country that doesn't have the death penalty. But, let me say this. If I had been on the jury, Casey Anthony would be on death row, awaiting lethal injection. I'd have no problem at all convicting her of death. That's how strongly I believe she killed her child. I wouldn't lose a second of sleep making that verdict.

I don't know where you got that I didn't read about the case. If I typed that, typo, it happens.
I had neglected to delete that part of what you had written back to me. I since have deleted it.

I do know she killed her child, because the evidence leaves no room for doubt. There is no other scenario that makes sense.
Many people agree with you. I believe it is very possible, but that is not how our legal system works -- the prosecution did not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Casey killed Caylee. It IS possible the little girl drowned or died in some other way.

I am someone that knows a lot about this case simply because I've watched every second of it.
"Alot" is two words. :)

You said you have listened to commentators and read newspaper articles and talked with people about it during the trial, so you have gone beyond what a juror ever was able to do.

I know without any doubt that she killed her child.
No, you don't. No one (except Casey) does.

I'd have no problem at all convicting her of death.
And if it came out later, after you'd convicted her and she'd been put to death, that she was innocent after all, then what? Oh, well.

The prosecution should have gone after a verdict of second-degree murder (no premeditation) or voluntary manslaughter, but they didn't. They over-reached and went for the brass ring, first-degree murder, but didn't prove their case and missed missed grabbing the ring. They are the ones who have disrespected Caylee.

Your passion is compelling, Altenweg. But it's not just passion - again you have laid out the facts in such a logical fashion, that, imo, any reasonable person would come to the same conclusion as you have. And as I have.

Dear Wondergirl, NO, it's not ABSOLUTE proof. In law, no such standard exists. Is it beyond a reasonable doubt? In my opinion, it is. I respect your opinion, but I disagree with it.

Thank you Athos. :)

This entire case has left me cold, has left me mourning not only the loss of a beautiful little girl, a child that should have had a lifetime ahead of her, but also mourning the lack of justice, the lack of closure on this case. I know that her killer, the last person to see her alive, the person that snuffed out her life, will walk free on July 17. I know it beyond any doubt.

I too disagree with Wondergirl and all the people that think that justice was served. It wasn't. Not by a long shot.

There is no other reasonable scenario other then murder, and no one else was with Caylee, other then Casey, on the last day of her life.

I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a reasonable scenario. WG mentioned that accidental drowning is a possibility. I would like to know how. How does a child accidentally drown and end up in the woods, duct tape on her mouth and nose, chloroform in her system, in two garbage bags and a laundry bag, and her mother, that very night, knowing he child is dead, goes to her boyfriends house, goes out to rent movies, acts as if nothing happened? How?

Four days later Casey enters a hot body contest, dances the night away at a club, as if nothing happened.

For 31 days, THIRTY ONE, Casey tells no one about this, and when her mother, Cindy, finally finds Casey, confronts her, asks her where Caylee is, Casey says that the baby was kidnapped by a nonexistent nanny. For 3 years that's the story she clings to, until trial, when the defense says that Casey claims Caylee drowned. She also told police that she worked at Universal Studios, held onto that lie, even let the police take her to Universal, and didn't admit that she hadn't worked there for years until they checked the records. She stole from friends, made up imaginary people, not just one nanny, but many other imaginary friends, searched how to make chloroform, went to one site about how to make chloroform 84 times (a syringe with chloroform was found at the scene by Caylees remains), but also looked up neck breaking, how to make weapons at home etc. etc. Chloroform was detected in the trunk of Casey's car, along with the smell of decomposition (detected by 2 cadaver dogs trained to only hit on decomposition of human remains), and a hair (belonging to Caylee), was found, with post mortem banding.

Accidental drowning is not a crime, it's not something the state can prosecute. So why not mention that it was an accidental drowning during the three years she's sitting in jail? Why cling to the lie about kidnapping? Why face the death penalty when it was an accident?

Anyone have an answer to that, because I'd love to hear it.

I'm so upset about this. I want to unsubscribe because it's tearing me apart, but I can't hit that unsubscribe button.

Caylee didn't get justice, and I feel that I must get justice for her here, if not real justice, at least justice in making people realize that her killer is walking free next Sunday.

WG, I really urge you to watch the trial, watch the evidence presented. Until then, I really don't think you can reach a verdict. Not a valid one.

The prosecution should have gone after a verdict of second-degree murder (no premeditation) or voluntary manslaughter, but they didn't. They over-reached and went for the brass ring, first-degree murder, but didn't prove their case and missed missed grabbing the ring. They are the ones who have disrespected Caylee.

The reason that the prosecutor went for first degree premeditated murder was the Google searches for how to make chloroform, and the other Google searches. They did charge for 1st degree murder, aggravated manslaughter of a child, and aggravated child abuse. She was found not guilty of those three charges.

In other words, they went for all the charges they could, and the jury found her not guilty of all of those three charges.

They didn't miss the mark, the jury did. :mad:

And if it came out later, after you'd convicted her and she'd been put to death, that she was innocent after all, then what? Oh, well.

Just have to comment on this part.

WG, I know she's not innocent. That's the point I'm making. I have no doubt, reasonable or unreasonable, or anything in between. I know she killed her child, so I know that she'll never be "proven" innocent. There's no proof of that, but there's tons of proof that she's guilty. So no, I wouldn't lose a second of sleep over her being put to death. I wouldn't give it a second thought. I'd know that justice for Caylee was served.

Remember, I'm against the death penalty. The thought of the death penalty makes me sick, because I always wonder (in most cases), if the convicted person is actually guilty. When it comes to Casey Anthony, I don't wonder. I know she's guilty. Yes, I know. I wasn't there, I didn't witness it, but I know. That's how strong the evidence is.

There is not other explanation. I would have no remorse convicting Casey to death. None at all.

Just have to comment on this part.

WG, I know she's not innocent. That's the point I'm making. I have no doubt, reasonable or unreasonable, or anything in between. I know she killed her child, so I know that she'll never be "proven" innocent. There's no proof of that, but there's tons of proof that she's guilty. So no, I wouldn't lose a second of sleep over her being put to death. I wouldn't give it a second thought. I'd know that justice for Caylee was served.

Remember, I'm against the death penalty. The thought of the death penalty makes me sick, because I always wonder (in most cases), if the convicted person is actually guilty. When it comes to Casey Anthony, I don't wonder. I know she's guilty. Yes, I know. I wasn't there, I didn't witness it, but I know. That's how strong the evidence is.

There is not other explanation. I would have no remorse convicting Casey to death. None at all.

The more I read about this case, some things become very obvious.

Those who watched the case from gavel to gavel on the TV, or those who were paid commentators on the various networks covering the case - in other words, those with the greatest amount of information and knowledge about the events - are 99.9% unanimous in the guilt of the defendant.

Those who got their information from news stories and headlines - never quite the same thing as being there, whether in person or television - are split between guilt or innocence.

The not guilty crowd often cites the sanctity of the justice system, the wonder of juries, and, often, propose scenarios that are simply impossible when faced with the actual facts. Like Altenweg, I want to bang my head against the wall when I read these things.

These scenarios often point the finger to the prosecution - they didn't prove their case, they should have gone for a lesser charge, etc. When all the evidence - and I mean ALL - points to murder, the prosecution is legally required to charge appropriately. No prosecutor ever diminishes a charge so obvious as this case. Should they have charged Casey Anthony with littering? No doubt, a guilty verdict would have ensued. But that's not how it works.

Comments about voluntary or involuntary manslaughter simply fly in the face of the evidence. That would require belief that the mother found her daughter accidentally drowned, never called the authorities, hid the body for a month in the trunk of her car, with her dead daughter in the trunk went out and partied for a month and got tattoos, invented a fairy kidnapper baby-sitter, then dumped her daughter in garbage bags into a swamp where, as a last incomprehensible action, sealed the child's mouth and nose with duct tape. And left a syringe with chloroform laying around.

People who are involved with accidents do NOT act this way.

I know this basically repeats Altenweg's comment, but apparently it bears repeating.

The jury failed - wanting a CSI-type of conclusive evidence (as perfectly noted in the comments of juror #3 and an alternate juror), not understanding circumstantial evidence, throwing their common sense out the window, they returned a verdict of not guilty.

The jury failed - wanting a CSI-type of conclusive evidence (as perfectly noted in the comments of juror #3 and an alternate juror), not understanding circumstantial evidence, throwing their common sense out the window, they returned a verdict of not guilty.

Bravo Athos! This is exactly why a not guilty verdict was found. The jurors wanted more then could be presented, more then real life cases can present. They expected someone to see the crime, they expected a motive, they expected DNA. That only happens on TV, and this isn't TV.

Of all the people I've talked to about this case, the only ones that say that the not guilty verdict was just, are people that really don't know much about the case, haven't followed the trial, and really don't know the entire case. Those of us that actually watched the trial, well, like Athos said, 99.9% of those people would have convicted of murder.

Comments about voluntary or involuntary manslaughter simply fly in the face of the evidence.
I had said second-degree murder (not premeditated, not planned) would have been the better charge. The jury would have agreed and convicted her. I do not know what penalties there are -- life imprisonment is one, I would guess.

First-degree includes premeditation. It's very probable, if Casey killed her daughter, she did it on the spur of the moment (drugged out?) and hadn't planned it -- second-degree murder.

Voluntary manslaughter is the killing of a human being in which the offender had no prior intent to kill and acted during "the heat of passion." Involuntary manslaughter is not a consideration at all..

I had said second-degree murder (not premeditated, not planned) would have been the better charge. The jury would have agreed and convicted her. I do not know what penalties there are -- life imprisonment is one, I would guess.

First-degree includes premeditation. It's very probable, if Casey killed her daughter, she did it on the spur of the moment (drugged out?) and hadn't planned it -- second-degree murder.

Voluntary manslaughter is the killing of a human being in which the offender had no prior intent to kill and acted during "the heat of passion." Involuntary manslaughter is not a consideration at all..

It's completely IMPROBABLE that she killed on the spur of the moment.

84 computer searches to find out how to make chloroform, finding a syringe with chloroform, and the presence of chloroform in the trunk of her car where the body rotted for 31 days (!) definitely shows premeditation.

Duct tape over the mouth and nose does NOT indicate spur-of-the-moment.

Again, bravo Athos.

The searches (84) for how to make chloroform, the searches on how to break someone's neck, searches on how to make weapons at home, etc. etc. show premeditation. That's why they went for the death penalty. It was proven that Casey made those searches. If she wasn't planning on killing her child, why was she learning how to make chloroform? Also, chloroform was detected in the trunk of the car where Caylee's body decomposed, and there was a syringe of chloroform found near Caylee's body.

Add to that the duct tape on Caylee's mouth and nose, and not just a small strip, but wrapped around the head, and it's very clear that this was not a spur of the moment killing.

I was under the impression that Casey couldn't make money off a book deal or a movie because she had been civilly sued by "Zanny"

Hi guys, I have decided to unsubscribe from this thread. Continuing to read this every day is having me in tears, and literally sick to my stomach. I just can not comprehend the reasons behind this "mother's" actions, and the thoughts of what happened to that poor baby is just literally making physically ill. I am finding myself obsessed with this, thinking about it all the time and crying constantly for this little girl! I know it sounds silly, I never met her, but just the thought of what this poor baby went through horrifies me.

I know I stared the thread, and I really would like you guys to continue posting here. Anything that educates people on what has happened in this case is fine by me.The facts and the points made here are very clear, and I think anyone who has read this who may have had a doubt is now clear on some of the facts of the case. I really have nothing to add except my feelings, which, I have made well clear. I think Casey Anthony is guilty as sin, and I hope in one way or another she gets what she deserves.

I was under the impression that Casey couldn't make money off a book deal or a movie because she had been civilly sued by "Zanny"

She doesn't have a book deal or movie deal yet. She does have a million dollar offer to do a TV interview, which she can accept.

I don't think the law suit by "Zanny" will play out. Casey did lie about Zanny the nanny, and they did find someone with that exact name, but, Casey never claimed that that particular Zaneida was the person she was talking about.

Hi guys, I have decided to unsubscribe from this thread. Continuing to read this every day is having me in tears, and literally sick to my stomach. I just can not comprehend the reasons behind this "mother's" actions, and the thoughts of what happened to that poor baby is just literally making physically ill. I am finding my self obsessed with this, thinking about it all the time and crying constantly for this little girl! I know it sounds silly, I never met her, but just the thought of what this poor baby went through horrifies me.

I know I stared the thread, and I really would like you guys to continue posting here. Anything that educates people on what has happened in this case is fine by me.The facts and the points made here are very clear, and I think anyone who has read this who may have had a doubt is now clear on some of the facts of the case. I really have nothing to add except my feelings, which, I have made well clear. I think Casey Anthony is guilty as sin, and I hope in one way or another she gets what she deserves.

I understand Bella.

I've wanted to unsubscribe for a while. This case also has me in tears. What makes it worse is when people that don't even know anything about the trial, make comments, suggest that the verdict was accurate, post what they think are facts, that aren't facts at all.

If you're going to comment, at least watch the trial so you know what you're commenting about. Until then, you have no opinion, at least not one I want to hear. :(

Can anyone point to me proof that this was a lone juror holdout. This verdict went down pretty quickly given the length of the trial.

No DNA in the trunk... hmmmm . If the glove don't fit...

Guess I'll go tune into Nancy Grace to find out what I should think.

Late to the thread because I've been overseas.

Anyone want to start a pool about how long it takes before someone bumps the Murderess off? Just kidding, wasn't serious... but I won't be surprised if it does happen.

I have no doubt she actually did it, or had a hand in it... they were just unable to provide that "beyond a reasonable doubt" proof required, particularly in a capital murder charge which would have the highest hurdle for good reason. But then, I wasn't on the jury.

I think she is a narcissistic waste of human flesh based on how she behaved alone. What parent would wait 31 days much less go partying before reporting their missing child.

Personally I think the prosecutors blew it by HOW they charged her, and what they charged her with.

Death penalty cases have the highest level of standards of proof, and for good reason... but she's not exempt from civil charges... thats how the got OJ after all. THAT would NOT be double jeopardy.

They should have had other charges with lesser punishments that might have had a different outcome.

I never heard about a lone juror holdout, even if I had expected to... but then I was traveling and what I did hear was spotty at best.

Great contribution Smoothy. As time passes and I have been able to approach the situation less emotionally, I can see the position the jurors were in more clearly. I wonder if this is why I've yet to be selected for jury duty?

The prosecution failed Caylee.

Today I learned that a juror quit her job for fear of retaliation for their decision. There has been a bit of a mob mentality since this case began. Best guess is that Casey Anthony will require the protections of the witness protection program . Apparently the jurors will require it also.

Mob justice is not justice regardless of the outcome of the case.

Today I learned that a juror quit her job for fear of retaliation for their decision. There has been a bit of a mob mentality since this case began. Best guess is that Casey Anthony will require the protections of the witness protection program . Apparently the jurors will require it also.

Mob justice is not justice regardless of the outcome of the case.

I agree Tomber.

The jury, even though I didn't agree with their verdict, doesn't deserve to be harassed and threatened because of the verdict.

The people that are making threats are no better then Casey. The law is the law, and people should follow it.

Can we all just leave this thread alone. It is only rehashing, alty was upset, not able to carry on with the thread and was going to unsuscribe.

AB doesn't want to carry on with it.

Everything is supposition. I feel badly for the jurors. As you can imagine, they were chosen at random and landed in a rats nest.

I think I mentioned before, child offenders do not last long in jail, meaning, they don't come out alive.

tick

Great contribution Smoothy. As time passes and I have been able to approach the situation less emotionally, I can see the position the jurors were in more clearly. I wonder if this is why I've yet to be selected for jury duty?

The prosecution failed Caylee.


The prosecution failed because there was no hard evidence, the trail had gone cold. Unusual for so short a time but that happens.

Can we all just leave this thread alone. It is only rehashing, alty was upset, not able to carry on with the thread and was going to unsuscribe.

AB doesnt want to carry on with it.

Everything is supposition. I feel badly for the jurors. As you can imagine, they were chosen at random and landed in a rats nest.

I think I mentioned before, child offenders do not last long in jail, meaning, they dont come out alive.

tick

Tick, I do want to unsubscribe, but the fact is, I can't. The truth has to be told. The people that are fighting for the conviction don't know the facts, and that's very clear. They haven't bothered to actually view the evidence, or watch the trial. Frankly, I don't even know why they're posting, since they don't know the facts.

I agree that the jurors landed in a rats nest. They saw what they saw, thought she was guilty (all the jurors that have spoken out said that they thought she was guilty), but for some reason they weren't drilled on reasonable doubt, and let a murderer walk free. That doesn't mean that their lives should be hell because of this, and the people that are making death threats etc. well, shame on them!

Child molesters don't last long in jail, but Casey isn't a child molester, she's a child killer, and she gets out on Sunday. She won't be in jail long enough for anyone to do anything to her, and anyone that does attempt to end her life is just as bad as her.

She should be in jail for life, or facing the death penalty. Sadly, that didn't happen. Now that she's free, now that the "justice system" has run its course and let a killer go free, anyone that decides to take matters into their own hands, well, they're just as guilty as she is.

I hope karma works. What comes around goes around. Hopefully that will happen to Casey.

I think I mentioned before, child offenders do not last long in jail, meaning, they dont come out alive.

tick

Casey Anthony is being RELEASED from jail - Sunday.

Did you think she was staying?

Casey Anthony is being RELEASED from jail - Sunday.

Did you think she was staying?

Exactly. She's out in 5 days, depending on where you live. ;)

I am upset by this thread. Not because of the content, but because the people arguing for the Not guilty verdict don't know the case at all. Most of them admit that until this thread, or others like it, they didn't even know about the case. They're guessing when it comes to the facts, and that's very clear in their posts.

I'm only upset because I do know the case, and I do know how the trial went (I watched the whole thing). I made my opinion of guilty based on the trial, not Nancy Grace or any other show.

I only ask that the people that comment here at least take the time to actually watch the trial, know what's involved. Until you do that, your opinion means very little, because you don't have the facts.

the prosecution failed because there was no hard evidence,

Apparently, you haven't read the previous posts here. Some of us have gone to great lengths trying to explain the difference between "hard" evidence, and circumstantial evidence.

Had you taken the time, you would not have posted the above.

Altenweg - I think we were posting at the same time. Some duplication, but not a problem.

Apparently, you haven't read the previous posts here. Some of us have gone to great lengths trying to explain the difference between "hard" evidence, and circumstantial evidence.

Had you taken the time, you would not have posted the above.

Greenie!

I wish I could give you a real one.

I agree. There's rarely hard evidence, but the circumstantial evidence in this case was overwhelming.

Again I ask, and please, feel free to answer. If Caylee wasn't killed by her mother, then how did she die? What other scenario (keeping in mind the chloroform, the duct tape, the garbage bags, the laundry bags, the smell of decomposition in the trunk of Casey's car, the hair found in Casey's car, belonging to Caylee, with post mortem banding on the root, etc. etc.) makes sense? Drowning doesn't make sense. Also, keep in mind the lies about a nanny kidnapping Caylee. The partying. Hiding your daughters "disappearance" for 31 days, and again, etc. etc.

What happened to Caylee if she wasn't killed by Casey?

Anyone have a reasonable explanation that disputes the prosecutions case? Because if you don't, there's no reasonable doubt!

Altenweg - I think we were posting at the same time. Some duplication, but not a problem.

LOL!

Athos, I think this entire thread is a duplication, you and I pointing out why a Guilty verdict should have been rendered. I feel like we're repeating ourselves over and over again, but only a few people are listening.

I really want to know what explanation the "not guilty" posters have for all that happened to Caylee. So far not one of them has come up with a "reasonable" scenario, other then murder.

Greenie!

I wish I could give you a real one.

I agree. There's rarely hard evidence, but the circumstantial evidence in this case was overwhelming.

Again I ask, and please, feel free to answer. If Caylee wasn't killed by her mother, then how did she die? What other scenario (keeping in mind the chloroform, the duct tape, the garbage bags, the laundry bags, the smell of decomposition in the trunk of Casey's car, the hair found in Casey's car, belonging to Caylee, with post mortem banding on the root, etc. etc.) makes sense? Drowning doesn't make sense. Also, keep in mind the lies about a nanny kidnapping Caylee. The partying. Hiding your daughters "disappearance" for 31 days, and again, etc. etc.

What happened to Caylee if she wasn't killed by Casey?

Anyone have a reasonable explanation that disputes the prosecutions case? Because if you don't, there's no reasonable doubt!

None here that I have seen... I'm thoroughly convinced Casey did it. Based on what I have heard on the case. Since I wasn't actually on the jury... I can present my opinion based on what I have heard thus far.

And the really sad thing is... there are hundreds of similar cases a year we DON'T hear about. That was hardly a rare or special case... just one the media decided to focus in on.

None here that I have seen.....I'm thoroughly convinced Casey did it. Based on what I have heard on the case. Since I wasn't actually on the jury....I can present my opinion based on what I have heard thus far.

And the really sad thing is....there are hundreds of of similar cases a year we DON'T hear about. That was hardly a rare or special case....just one the media decided to focus in on.

There have been a few posters, people that admitted they didn't follow the case, posting that she may not be guilty. I don't mind a difference of opinion, as long at the opinion is educated. It makes me mad when people that don't know about the case, have no idea what evidence there was, post that the verdict was just.

I'm not talking about you Smoothy, but read the entire thread, you'll see what I'm talking about.

I'm just upset because I did my homework. I watched this case unfold for 3 years. I watched every second of the case, every day in court, every person that was brought to the witness stand, all the evidence. I watched it all, and I'm still watching the after math.

My belief is that the jury wasn't well educated in "reasonable doubt". Most of them said they thought Casey was guilty, but wanted a "smoking gun", or DNA evidence, or a clear motive, or witness. That makes me mad. This is real life, not TV or the movies. The body was under water for months. NO DNA! I've never seen a case that actually has video tape of the crime being committed. Motive, that's easy, Casey wanted freedom. The jury wanted too much. They weren't smart enough to realize that the things they wanted, in real life, aren't always possible. There was enough circumstantial evidence to prove the case. IMO. :)

reasonable doubt

reasonable scenario
You have mentioned the two stated scenarios over and over again. Since no one (except Casey) knows and can prove exactly what happened, there is reasonable doubt. A second scenario is that something else could have happened that caused Caylee's death, and Casey took it and ran with it.

Alty, I am 95% certain she killed her daughter, but there is no hard evidence, just circumstantial evidence. Yes, she surfed for chlorophyll/chloroform information. Yes, she partied during those 31 days Caylee was "missing." Yes, there was tons of other circumstantial evidence.

All through this thread, I have never said she did not kill her daughter; I have never said she was innocent. The prosecution did not prove their case -- "not guilty," i.e. "not proven." That is what all of the jurors brought in as a verdict. Meanwhile, the public judged Casey as guilty beginning on Day One of the trial.

Yes, she surfed for chlorophyll/chloroform information.

Have to correct this. Cindy (Casey's mother) said she searched for chlorophyll. Not Casey. Casey searched "how to make chloroform" and visited one particular website with that info 84 times!


Since no one (except Casey) knows and can prove exactly what happened, there is reasonable doubt.

So, any case where the defendant claims innocence means a not guilty verdict? Of course Casey isn't going to admit she killed her child. The prosecution did prove reasonable doubt. They went past reasonable doubt. There was no other scenario because of the evidence.


I have never said she did not kill her daughter; I have never said she was innocent.

WG, this is what doesn't make sense to me. So, are you saying you believe she killed her daughter? If so, why? You never said she was innocent. So, does that mean you believe she's guilty? What part of all of this made you come to that conclusion? Do you have a reason to believe in her guilt? If so, then obviously something in all of this proved that to you. So again, where's the reasonable doubt?

I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just very passionate about this case. I have yet to hear one person say she's innocent, so I have to ask, why do you not believe in her innocence? And, if you don't believe, then why did the jury find her not guilty?

Reasonable doubt? There doesn't seem to be any. Not for anyone.

There have been a few posters, people that admitted they didn't follow the case, posting that she may not be guilty. I don't mind a difference of opinion, as long at the opinion is educated. It makes me mad when people that don't know about the case, have no idea what evidence there was, post that the verdict was just.

I'm not talking about you Smoothy, but read the entire thread, you'll see what I'm talking about.

I'm just upset because I did my homework. I watched this case unfold for 3 years. I watched every second of the case, every day in court, every person that was brought to the witness stand, all the evidence. I watched it all, and I'm still watching the after math.

My belief is that the jury wasn't well educated in "reasonable doubt". Most of them said they thought Casey was guilty, but wanted a "smoking gun", or DNA evidence, or a clear motive, or witness. That makes me mad. This is real life, not TV or the movies. The body was under water for months. NO DNA! I've never seen a case that actually has video tape of the crime being committed. Motive, that's easy, Casey wanted freedom. The jury wanted too much. They weren't smart enough to realize that the things they wanted, in real life, aren't always possible. There was enough circumstantial evidence to prove the case. IMO. :)

As I have heard described elsewhere... the problem is the legal definition of "Beyond a REASONABLE doubt" has some taken the meaning in far too many peoples minds to mean " Beyond ANY doubt". And those two things mean very different things.

And no... I didn't think you directed that at me.

I'm just upset because I did my homework. I watched this case unfold for 3 years. I watched every second of the case, every day in court, every person that was brought to the witness stand, all the evidence. I watched it all, and I'm still watching the after math.

Did you sequester yourself and not read magazine and newspaper articles about the trial? Did you refuse to listen to anything on TV about it? Did you avoid any real-life or online chats about the trial during the trial? That's what the jury had to do.

Her suspicious behavior persuaded me, just like it persuaded you. Fortunately, the U.S. justice system requires more than suspicious behavior to win a conviction. In a courtroom contest between dueling narratives, our system grants an advantage to the defense. It puts the burden on the prosecution to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt.

Caylee's body was so badly decomposed that the cause of death could not be established. It is much more difficult to prove why somebody died when it can't be proven how that person died. In order to win the case, the defense had to provide a second scenario plausible enough to cast a shadow of doubt on the prosecution's version of events. They did that.

Casey searched "how to make chloroform" and visited one particular website with that info 84 times!
Why was her mother checking out chlorophyll information?

And maybe before the 85th search, Caylee accidentally drowned and solved Casey's problem.

So, any case where the defendant claims innocence means a not guilty verdict?
Apparently, you haven't been reading what I have been writing.

You never said she was innocent. So, does that mean you believe she's guilty?
Her actual guilt or innocence wasn't the point of what I have ever written in this thread.

Since no one (except Casey) knows and can prove exactly what happened, there is reasonable doubt........... but there is no hard evidence, just circumstantial evidence............ Yes, there was tons of other circumstantial evidence.

WG, you continue to miss the point of the meaning of "beyond a reasonable doubt". You say that only Casey can "prove" what happened. PROOF, IN THE SENSE YOU MEAN, IS NOT NECESSARY! The EVIDENCE is the key.

Then you say there is "NO HARD EVIDENCE, JUST CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE". What do you mean, "JUST"? There's no such thing, in law, as JUST circumstantial evidence. Evidence, whether circumstantial or direct, is still EVIDENCE! Evidence is what is used to convict or acquit.

(Excuse my caps, but I'm getting so damn frustrated as Altenweg and I do this again and again and again, and it seems you're not reading/examining our previous posts on the issue).

There will always be some scenario that someone can construct that would indicate innocence - but does that scenario pass the test of common sense? If it does, acquit. If not, convict. I cannot imagine a single scenario for innocence (not guilty) that fits the evidence presented - not a single one.

As a Judge said in another case trying to explain the idea of "reasonable" doubt, is it possible that an alien committed the crime and removed the evidence? Yes, it's within the realm of possibility, but is it reasonable? No.

You admit there was "tons of circumstantial evidence" - but tons weren't enough for you? Tons? How many tons do you need?

I know you're bending over backwards in an attempt to be fair, but a court must work within the rules.

Jury trials are an advance over trial by ordeal, but they are not perfect.

As I have heard described elsewhere....the problem is the legal definition of "Beyond a REASONABLE doubt" has some taken the meaning in far too many peoples minds to mean " Beyond ANY doubt". And those two things mean very different things.

Right, you summed it up nicely.

WG, you continue to miss the point of the meaning of "beyond a reasonable doubt".
I don't think so.

You say that only Casey can "prove" what happened.
No, I said she is the only one who knows what happened, how Caylee died.

you're not reading/examining our previous posts on the issue
Nor are you mine.

There will always be some scenario that someone can construct that would indicate innocence - but does that scenario pass the test of common sense? If it does, acquit. If not, convict.
This is the U.S. justice system and how it works? -- common sense?

I know you're bending over backwards in an attempt to be fair
Saints preserve us all, especially me.

Her suspicious behavior persuaded me, just like it persuaded you.

It is very honest of you to admit that you were swayed by "suspicious behavior", but very dishonest to accuse Altenweg of the same thing.

Altenweg, for 3 days now, has laid out logical point by logical point.

Nowhere did she give you any reason to say that she was persuaded by "suspicious behavior".

I have to add that so far no one has provided a REASONABLE alternative to the known (condemning) facts.

Unless we are to believe that Casey was molested by her father and brother at the age of eight, and this led to the accidental death of her child in a swimming pool 15 years later. How in the world could anyone connect THOSE dots?

It is very honest of you to admit that you were swayed by "suspicious behavior", but very dishonest to accuse Altenweg of the same thing.
What else is it? That seems to be what Alty has been talking about all this time, i.e. Casey's behavior before and during that month. If I am wrong, I apologize to her.

I have to add that so far no one has provided a REASONABLE alternative to the known (condemning) facts.
Accidental death is a reasonable alternative.

This is the U.S. justice system and how it works? -- common sense?

YES!

Finally, we may have a breakthrough here. A jury is charged with using its common sense. YES! YES! YES!

A jury listens to, watches, and examines testimonies, all the while utilizing its God-given common sense. That's the prime reason why we have trials by jury, so that 12 jurors can collectively employ their life experience, their wisdom, and their common sense.

Without the common sense of human beings, we might as well have a computer program to sit in judgement -a program, by the way, that would be utterly defeated by the notion of reasonable doubt.

What else is it?

Accidental death is a reasonable alternative.

(What else is it?) How about those "tons" (your words) of circumstantial evidence for a starter?

Accidental death is not an argument, it's a statement. I think Altenweg has covered this possibility extensively in a few previous posts. I won't re-do it here. It's there for your perusal.

Legally you don't even NEED a body for a murder conviction. There are numerous cases to show precedent for that.

And its "Reasonable doubt" not "ANY doubt" that's the threshold of proof that's being overlooked.

A jury listens to, watches, and examines testimonies, all the while utilizing its God-given common sense. That's the prime reason why we have trials by jury, so that 12 jurors can collectively employ their life experience, their wisdom, and their common sense.

And if Caylee accidentally drowned (or died somehow by accident) and Casey panicked, but then used that to her advantage?

And if Caylee accidentally drowned (or died somehow by accident) and Casey panicked, but then used that to her advantage?

Used to what advantage? Not sure what you mean.

Used to what advantage? Not sure what you mean.
Let's say Caylee drowned accidentally. For some reason, Casey, being the clueless person she is or maybe was drunk or had taken drugs, was too scared to report it, thinking no one would believe her and would think she had done something to cause the little girl's death. So she put the body in a garbage bag and then in the trunk of her car (sounds like something she would do, even if she hadn't killed the girl) and blocked it out of her mind, continued to party, telling her parents Casey was away from home. So, in that way Casey could have used the accidental death to her own advantage.

I have a niece who is capable of something like that. She didn't hide the death of her child, but did accidentally burn down her family's house and attached garage in a very bubble-headed way and then went merrily on with her life.

Let's say Caylee drowned accidentally. For some reason, Casey, being the clueless person she is or maybe was drunk or had taken drugs, was too scared to report it, thinking no one would believe her and would think she had done something to cause the little girl's death. So she put the body in a garbage bag and then in the trunk of her car (sounds like something she would do, even if she hadn't killed the girl) and continued to party, telling her parents Casey was away from home. So, in that way Casey could have used the accidental death to her own advantage.



What mother, in a million years, would ever take her (accidentally) drowned daughter and throw her into garbage bags? Then throw her into the trunk of her car and let her rot there for a month? And then create lie after lie after lie about what happened? Certainly not a mother whose daughter accidentally drowned. Is it possible? Yes. Is it probable? No. Even drunk or drugged. She's sober the next day.

Remember there's more. She researched how to kill (a reasonable assumption) her daughter using chloroform. She also researched "breaking a neck". Chloroform was found by forensic experts. A chloroform syringe also. Drowned children are not chloroformed.

Duct tape covered her daughter's mouth and nose. Drowned children are not duct taped.

Fantastic lies about non-existent nannies, non-existent jobs, and then recanting all those stories to be replaced by stories of molestation by her father and brother when she was 8 years old.

If this doesn't tell you she was guilty beyond a "reasonable" doubt, nothing ever will.







Duct tape was found on the remains, covering the child's mouth and nose.

What mother, in a million years, would ever take her (accidentally) drowned daughter and throw her into garbage bags?
The daughter is dead. There's nothing she can do about it. She's scared because she will be accused of hurting the girl. Each day that goes by without being found out makes it more and more likely to her that she's managing the situation. She can even ignore the smell coming from the trunk of the car. The daughter's death is not her fault, but there's nothing she can do to bring her daughter back to life. So why not take advantage of her freedom.

Yes, there are mothers like this.

Remember there's more. She researched how to kill (a reasonable assumption) her daughter using chloroform. She also researched "breaking a neck". Chloroform was found by forensic experts. A chloroform syringe also.
Oh, yes, she researched it, but Fate intervened and took the girl before she could kill her.

Duct tape covered her daughter's mouth and nose. Drowned children are not duct taped.
This was insurance. If the body had been found, Casey could have said that someone murdered the little girl, thus taking the onus off her, since she knew the girl had accidentally drowned.

Fantastic lies about non-existent nannies, non-existent jobs, and then recanting all those stories to be replaced by stories of molestation by her father and brother when she was 8 years old.
I didn't say she isn't a nut-case or a pathological liar.

If this doesn't tell you she was guilty beyond a "reasonable" doubt, nothing ever will.
Nope, it doesn't.

Duct tape was found on the remains, covering the child's mouth and nose.
Additional insurance in case someone found her. Make it look like someone murdered her. Take the trail away from herself.

Remember, she's not a member of Mensa.

The daughter is dead. There's nothing she can do about it. She's scared because she will be accused of hurting the girl. Each day that goes by without being found out makes it more and more likely to her that she's managing the situation. She can even ignore the smell coming from the trunk of the car. The daughter's death is not her fault, but there's nothing she can do to bring her daughter back to life. So why not take advantage of her freedom.

Yes, there are mothers like this.

Oh, yes, she researched it, but Fate intervened and took the girl before she could kill her.

This was insurance. If the body had been found, Casey could have said that someone murdered the little girl, thus taking the feared onus off her, since she knew the girl had accidentally drowned.

I didn't say she isn't a nut-case.

Nope, it doesn't.

Additional insurance in case someone found her. make it look like someone murdered her. Take the trail away from her.

Why will she be scared if she's accused of hurting the girl? There's simply no evidence to support that supposition. The rest of your scenario is based on this weak proposition of her being afraid to be accused. You're building a house of cards.

In the recorded history of child pool drownings in Florida, there has NEVER been a case where the mother didn't report it. From an expert witness.

As I've said again and again, yes, you can make up scenarios, but are they reasonable? In this case, absolutely not.

Why is the trunk of her car drenched in chloroform? From an expert witness.

Explain the syringe.

Wouldn't a mother be wracked with grief had her daughter drowned? Explain her party behavior, her tattoos.

Finally, do you seriously believe a mother would drive around for a month with her daughter's body in the trunk of her car.

Everything about her actions shows guilt. Common sense. Reasonable doubt.

You have shown, again and again, that you don't understand the legal meaning of circumstantial evidence, and the concept of reasonable doubt. I don't BLAME you for that, but I think it behooves you now to go research these ideas so we can be discussing from a common basis.

I can't keep repeating the same things over and over again.

Why will she be scared if she's accused of hurting the girl?
She's sitting there with her daughter's dead body. She's young and stupid. She's in shock. She has a history of being accused of wrongdoing (or may believe she does), so why not this time too?

In the recorded history of child pool drownings in Florida, there has NEVER been a case where the mother didn't report it. From an expert witness.
And Casey was an everyday, normal mom?

As I've said again and again, yes, you can make up scenarios, but are they reasonable? In this case, absolutely not.
You are thinking of Casey as your average, loving mom without looking at what else may have been going on inside her.

Why is the trunk of her car drenched in chloroform? From an expert witness.
More insurance? Covers up the smell? She dumped the bottle of chloroform into the trunk just because? She kept the "evidence" all together? (It doesn't take much chloroform to knock out a child. So why so much if she killed Caylee?)

Explain the syringe.
Like I said, maybe she had planned murder, but Fate intervened. Or, more insurance to make it look like someone else had killed the girl?

Did she purchase the chloroform and syringe before or after Caylee's death? Were any receipts produced?

Wouldn't a mother be wracked with grief had her daughter drowned?
Maybe she was. But the girl was dead (accidentally), and she was free of responsibility. Time to party.

Explain her party behavior, her tattoos.
See above.

Finally, do you seriously believe a mother would drive around for a month with her daughter's body in the trunk of her car.
Yes, a very dysfunctional one would. You are thinking "normal" here.

Everything about her actions shows guilt. Common sense. Reasonable doubt.
Guilt? Not at all! Whether she killed Caylee or the girl accidentally drowned, Casey's actions show only one thing: She is the center of her own world.

We can end this here, if you like.

We can end this here, if you like.

LOL - yeah, time to end it.

You have presented what I would call the "alien" defense. Somebody from outer space did it. No matter how unreasonable, throw it at the fan.

Good job.

If I ever need a good defense attorney... and the jury has the IQ of a rutabaga...

If I ever need a good defense attorney
Maybe I'll get my law degree next.

Casey Anthony is being RELEASED from jail - Sunday.

Did you think she was staying?

I haven't been following this Athos. I don't want to.

Tick

Like I said, maybe she had planned murder, but Fate intervened. Or, more insurance to make it look like someone else had killed the girl?

Did she purchase the chloroform and syringe before or after Caylee's death? Were any receipts produced?

WG, I have to point this out. The chloroform wasn't purchased, that's why she researched how to make it online, visiting one particular site with detailed info on how to make (not purchase) chloroform at home.

I have to ask, if the child accidentally drowned, why take the time to chloroform her, duct tape her, put her in two garbage bags, a laundry bag, and dump her in the woods.

Seems like overkill to me.


Guilt? Not at all! Whether she killed Caylee or the girl accidentally drowned, Casey's actions show only one thing: She is the center of her own world.

I'm still amazed that you've read all of this evidence and believe Casey ( a known liar) about the drowning. I'm also shocked that you would think that a narcissist like Casey would sit in jail for 3 years when Caylee's death was accidental (according to you). Can you explain that? Why would you sit in jail for 3 years for something that wasn't chargeable? Why wouldn't you be admitting that the child drowned? Why wait until your trial to let that info out?

All this is some fine speculation . None of it was proved beyond the high burden of reasonable doubt. I agree with those who blame CSI . In the past the prosecutors may have been able to skate and get by with a jury pool that did not have much understanding of forensics . As the people have become smarter ,perhaps it is tougher for prosecutors to build a case . Too bad . This should be a message to over-reaching prosecutors to get their ducks in a row before they attempt to get a capital first degree murder conviction.

First-degree murder
Definition
: a murder that is committed with premeditation or during a serious felony (as kidnapping) or that otherwise (as because of extreme cruelty) requires the most serious punishment under the law

Found;

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fresearch.lawyers.com%2Fglossary%2 Ffirst-degree-murder.html&rct=j&q=definition%20of%20first%20degree%20murder%20in%2 0florida&ei=7DQeTr7CMsrt0gGplenjBw&usg=AFQjCNEg7ZmbVpXzV5nZMGhE6q-eUYeP4g&sig2=LOukFzg5E_qk6X6UhGtL3Q&cad=rja

The reason the prosecution went for a first degree murder charge are the searches which include: chloroform, inhalation, alcohol, death, self-defense, making weapons, and head injuries.

Also, the duct tape and the presence of chloroform in the trunk of the car, and found on the scene.

This shows premeditation.

They didn't over reach, not at all.

One other point that hasn't been mentioned yet. Early on, during a visit with her parents that was recorded at the jail house, there was a rumor that Caylee had drowned in the swimming pool. Cindy brought it up in the conversation, said that was the latest rumor going around, Casey's response" Surprise, surprise". In other words, she's not surprised that people are making up stories.

‪Casey Anthony Says She Is Victim in Jail Intervi‬‏ - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii2Okf1xpwE&feature=relmfu)

If Caylee had drowned, this would have been the opportunity to tell all, instead she denied it, stuck with the kidnapping story.

Make sense?

I'm still amazed that you've read all of this evidence and believe Casey ( a known liar) about the drowning.
You didn't really read what I wrote, did you.

You didn't really read what I wrote, did you.

Yes WG, I did.


Let's say Caylee drowned accidentally. For some reason, Casey, being the clueless person she is or maybe was drunk or had taken drugs, was too scared to report it, thinking no one would believe her and would think she had done something to cause the little girl's death. So she put the body in a garbage bag and then in the trunk of her car (sounds like something she would do, even if she hadn't killed the girl) and blocked it out of her mind, continued to party, telling her parents Casey was away from home. So, in that way Casey could have used the accidental death to her own advantage.

Yes WG, I did.

I think WG is posing a possible scenario to show the case was short of "beyond a reasonable doubt". I think somewhere along the line WG agreed that she was guilty, but she (WG) thought a lesser charge was appropriate.

Even though lesser charges were proffered (manslaughter), WG either missed that or felt even that was not "lesser" enough.

We're getting to the point where it becomes difficult to remember everything that has been said in this thread.

But my conviction that pre-meditated murder happened has not, for a single moment, been shaken by a single thing I have read here or elsewhere.

Most revealing will be Casey Anthony's actions in the near future. Will she do super-highly-paid interviews? Will she garner oodles of money with a book? How about a movie? If the answer to any of these is YES - making money off the death of her child - even the unconvinced will begin to wonder.

Paramount now is her physical safety as she is released from jail. Some self-appointed avenger may be lurking out there. Even though I believe she is guilty, I pray that she finds a safe place away from the madding crowd.

Even though I believe she is guilty, I pray that she finds a safe place away from the madding crowd.
Most of the world thinks she is guilty. In today's newspaper, there was a short article about a woman in Oklahoma who rammed the vehicle of another woman who apparently looks like Casey Anthony.

Fri, Jul. 15 2011 04:15 PM EDT
Casey Anthony Lookalike Attacked by Oklahoma Stranger
By Eryn Sun

More and more cases of strangers being persecuted for indirect relations to Casey Anthony are being reported, with an Oklahoma woman recently attacked for looking like the 25-year-old.

Sammay Blackwell, who works at a convenient store, was rear-ended by a woman who accused her of looking like Anthony, according to KOTV.

Blackwell told reporters that Shireen Nalley came into her convenient store last Friday and told her, “You look like Casey Anthony.”

“She said that I was trying to hurt babies, I was killing babies, and she was going to stop it before it happened again.”

When Blackwell left work around 10:30 p.m. that night, she got into her car and saw Nalley again.

“I began to back out and looked, and I could tell she was staring directly at me; I could almost see the whites of her eyes. I proceeded to pull out of the parking lot, and she was right behind me.”

After driving a few miles, Nalley rammed her van into the back of Blackwell's truck, and struck her again, causing Blackwell's vehicle to flip two and a half times before landing on the driver's side.

“I just laid there playing dead,” she recalled.

Blackwell's mother Debbie Smith told KOTV that she would never forget her daughter's reaction. “I got to her, she was crying, she was shaking, she says, 'Mama, this lady thinks I'm Casey Anthony, she tried to kill me.'”

“[Nalley] could have taken me away from my family, my daughter,” Blackwell said, who also has a daughter coincidentally by the name of Caylee as well.

Police arrested Nalley on charges of assault and battery with a deadly weapon. KOTV reported that the woman told police she was “trying to save the children.”

Blackwell, as well as many others, worries about the aftermath of Anthony's release from jail.

“I don't look that much like her, so what about people who actually do look like her and live closer to Florida instead of Oklahoma? What's going to happen to those people?”

Anthony will be released from prison on Sunday, with the general public protesting her acquittal and early release. She was found not guilty on counts of murder, manslaughter, and child abuse.

However, she was charged with four counts of lying to law enforcement and sentenced to four years in jail, along with a $4000 fine. Anthony's release date was sooner than expected due to time already served and gain time based on her good behavior.

Her defense lawyer, Jose Baez, filed a notice of appeal for her four convictions at the Orange County Courthouse on Friday.

Most of the world thinks she is guilty. In today's newspaper, there was a short article about a woman in Oklahoma who rammed the vehicle of another woman who apparently looks like Casey Anthony.

Fri, Jul. 15 2011 04:15 PM EDT
Casey Anthony Lookalike Attacked by Oklahoma Stranger
By Eryn Sun

More and more cases of strangers being persecuted for indirect relations to Casey Anthony are being reported, with an Oklahoma woman recently attacked for looking like the 25-year-old.

Sammay Blackwell, who works at a convenient store, was rear-ended by a woman who accused her of looking like Anthony, according to KOTV.

Blackwell told reporters that Shireen Nalley came into her convenient store last Friday and told her, “You look like Casey Anthony.”

“She said that I was trying to hurt babies, I was killing babies, and she was going to stop it before it happened again.”

When Blackwell left work around 10:30 p.m. that night, she got into her car and saw Nalley again.

“I began to back out and looked, and I could tell she was staring directly at me; I could almost see the whites of her eyes. I proceeded to pull out of the parking lot, and she was right behind me.”

After driving a few miles, Nalley rammed her van into the back of Blackwell’s truck, and struck her again, causing Blackwell’s vehicle to flip two and a half times before landing on the driver’s side.

“I just laid there playing dead,” she recalled.

Blackwell’s mother Debbie Smith told KOTV that she would never forget her daughter’s reaction. “I got to her, she was crying, she was shaking, she says, ‘Mama, this lady thinks I’m Casey Anthony, she tried to kill me.’”

“[Nalley] could have taken me away from my family, my daughter,” Blackwell said, who also has a daughter coincidentally by the name of Caylee as well.

Police arrested Nalley on charges of assault and battery with a deadly weapon. KOTV reported that the woman told police she was “trying to save the children.”

Blackwell, as well as many others, worries about the aftermath of Anthony’s release from jail.

“I don’t look that much like her, so what about people who actually do look like her and live closer to Florida instead of Oklahoma? What’s going to happen to those people?”

Anthony will be released from prison on Sunday, with the general public protesting her acquittal and early release. She was found not guilty on counts of murder, manslaughter, and child abuse.

However, she was charged with four counts of lying to law enforcement and sentenced to four years in jail, along with a $4000 fine. Anthony’s release date was sooner than expected due to time already served and gain time based on her good behavior.

Her defense lawyer, Jose Baez, filed a notice of appeal for her four convictions at the Orange County Courthouse on Friday.

Amazing story and, I'm afraid, it won't be the last.

Well, she's out. She was released shortly after midnight today. She's a free woman, walked right out the front door of the jail, got into an SUV, and now, God only knows where she is.

Her life will be hell, but a million dollar interview has already been offered to her, and money for pictures in the next few weeks.

Also, just a side note, she's appealing the 4 convictions for lying to police. Her attorney believes all the lies she told should have been lumped into one. So, more tax payer dollars going towards Casey. :(

Amazing story and, I'm afraid, it won't be the last.

Hi Athos, just an aside, and I am not being rude, but why don't you just delete some of the post you ar highlighting and just concentrate on a major sentence for your reply because we have already read through the original post. Sorry... admire your responses. This is just an IMO :D

Alty,

She was seen last week in a store close to OSU campus here in Ohio. I actually go to the area she was spotted all the time. If I see her, I will kick her butt and let you know how it felt. Ha ha ( actually couldn't kick anyone's hinney, I'm a wimp) BUT..
It brought up a question on a local christian radio station. The DJ asked what would you do if she showed up at your Church. Interesting question I thought and as a Christian, it is easier to say what you should do and a lot harder to do it.

I guess I believe she isn't getting away with anything. It only looks like she did. I believe with all of my heart Caylee is in a better place. I guess it is the only way I know how to deal with the entire mess.

She was seen last week in a store close to OSU campus here in Ohio.
That wasn't her.

WG,
Really? Well I was on vacation last week. I just heard the report that it was her. Hadn't heard the latest. Well, I guess never mind then.



... note...

I just checked out the pictures on TMZ. It LOOKS like her and they aren't confirming it was or wasn't.

I just checked out the pictures on TMZ. It LOOKS like her and they aren't confirming it was or wasn't.
The most hated woman in America isn't going to be waltzing around at some mall shopping and looking like herself. You have heard what happened to a few women who look like her, haven't you?

TMZ is a gossip web site that I wouldn't trust any farther than I could throw it.

I actually just watched TMZ and it showed video of the alleged Casey. She was wearing an Ohio state ball cap. But they said specifically it was her. Even as a gossip show, I would assume they would have to cover themselves legally. She was shopping at Old Navy by her self.

I actually just watched TMZ and it showed video of the alleged Casey. She was wearing an Ohio state ball cap. But they said specifically it was her. Even as a gossip show, I would assume they would have to cover them selves legally. She was shopping at Old Navy by her self.
Who's going to sue them? Casey? And for what?

The Website notes that the woman is first seen wearing flip-flops on the corner of a street called Glenmar. “The suggestion is that Casey went for a stroll with her Starbucks,” however, Lalate.com found the nearest Starbucks from Glenmar is two miles away – not just a short stroll down the street, which could be a bit difficult to walk in flip-flops.

Here's some more gossip to bite into --

Some have speculated that if the photos are of Casey, she may be pregnant as she appears to have put on several pounds since she walked out of jail a free woman on July 17, 2011 after being acquitted by a Florida jury.

Or maybe she's put on a little weight from eating real food (instead of institutional food).

Well I was actually thinking that the person who "was" Casey would sue, but I guess after thinking it out, I'm not sure for what. Just seems there would have to be some legal standing there. But I really wouldn't know either way.

Wow, I really, really hope this woman is not pregnant.

Wow, I really, really hope this woman is not pregnant.
Like I said, gossip.

Doesn't really matter if it was her or not.

Her lawyers are back in court. They're fighting the probation order for when she was charged with writing fake cheques. The judge at that trial specifically said, in court, that she was to serve probation after any jail time she was to endure. Well, somewhere along the way someone screwed up. She was sent a letter stating that her probation was served while she was in jail.

Well, that's not what the first judge intended, so now they're fighting in court.

If the probation order is held, she'll have to go back to Florida for her 1 year probation.

She could probably have probation transferred to where she is now.

The most hated woman in America isn't going to be waltzing around at some mall shopping and looking like herself.

She has to waltz somewhere. The photo's look like her.

It doesn't matter and I don't care. But just for grins, what would you do if she showed up in your church? Would you approach her?

She has to waltz somewhere. The photo's look like her.
One woman almost got killed because she looks like Casey. I'm told I have doubles walking around, and you do too probably.

But just for grins, what would you do if she showed up in your church? Would you approach her?
Of course I would. "Approach" is the wrong word; that sounds sneaky. I would welcome her and bring her a cup of coffee and invite her to stay for Bible class.

She could probably have probation transferred to where she is now.

No. The judge is adamant that probation is to happen where the crime took place. She could be forced to go back to Florida and stay for the entire year of her probation.

Her dream team is fighting in court right now, but the judges orders were very clear at her hearing. Probation was not to start until after she got out of jail.

Looks like she'll be forced to go home one way or another.

She has to waltz somewhere. The photo's look like her.

it doesn't matter and I don't care. But just for grins, what would you do if she showed up in your church? Would you approach her?

I know your question isn't directed at me, but I'd like to answer anyway.

First, I don't go to church, so I wouldn't run into her there. I also don't think she's the type of person that would go to church. If I were her I'd be afraid to cross the threshold in fear of being struck by lightening from heaven. ;)

But, if I did run into her, I wouldn't physically assault her. It's not my style. I would however tell her exactly what I think of her, and that I think she got away with murder, and that I hope that whatever tiny bit of conscience she has, haunts her for the rest of her life.

I can honestly say that I hope that her remaining days on this earth are filled with the same hell she put her poor child through. I do not wish her the best, I do not forgive her, and I never will. She should be rotting in jail. I'll never feel differently.

R.I.P Caylee.

I don't think I could talk to her. WG you sound so forgiving, but are you really? Would you really be open to her? I doubt it.

I would burst into tears at the mere sight of her. I wouldn't talk to her or physically assault her, also not my style. I am sure she will get her punishment, but I am not the one to dole it out. I am not so quick to forgive. Especially the murder of a baby.

I don't think I could talk to her. WG you sound so forgiving, but are you really? Would you really be open to her? I doubt it.

I would burst into tears at the mere sight of her. I wouldn't talk to her or physically assault here, also not my style. I am sure she will get her punishment, but I am not the one to dole it out. I am not so quick to forgive. Especially the murder of a baby.

I couldn't bring myself to talk to her... but remember like OJ... this is not over yet. The Civil cases haven't even started yet.

I don't think I could talk to her. WG you sound so forgiving, but are you really? Would you really be open to her? I doubt it.
If you knew me in real life, you wouldn't say that. I talk to ANYone -- rich, poor, guilty, not guilty, homeless, corporate head. That's what I did in Libraryland for 30 years in order to get answers for patrons. We librarians don't just look up stuff, we call whomever we need to in order to get the right answers for our patrons.

I've initiated phone contact with a bunch of people on this site and on others, mostly to hear their voice and get to know them beyond the monitor screen. Hearing a voice, and, in Casey's case if she came to my church, seeing her facial expressions and body language would tell me an awful lot about her. (And I went to psych grad school to enable me to do that well.)

Talking to Casey and being civil to her has nothing to do with forgiveness.

I have such a problem with hypocrites! That's partly why I don't go to church.

Sorry, that was just an aside and I don't mean to hijack... now back to the thread.

I have such a problem with hypocrites! That's partly why I don't go to church.
I'll further hijack. You're looking through the wrong end of the telescope. "Church,"Dear Abby said, "is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints."

I see what you mean WG. I guess to be nice or hospitable to someone I hated seems two faced to me. Not saying you are at all, just how I interpreted the question.

I have and do talk to just about anyone, as far as rich or poor goes, that means nothing to me. I don't care how much or how little someone has.

I don't know if you read the link I attached previously, but my uncle (by marriage) was accused of murder and found guilty, spent 10 years in jail before the RCMP reviewed his case again and found him not guilty. He was put in jail because of a racist bigoted RCMP officer who stated "Let an Indian burn for it". In 1971, he was wrongfully convicted of murdering his friend, in a Sydney, N.S. park. He was just 17 years old when he received a life sentence.

He was released in 1982 after RCMP reviewed his case. He was cleared by the Nova Scotia Court of Appeal the following year. Though the Appeal Court declared him not guilty, he was told he had contributed to his own conviction and that any miscarriage of justice was more apparent than real.

I am not one to jump at conclusions or believe everything I hear. But this case, screams guilt to me. And to be hospitable to her would make me feel that she deserves better.

I see what you mean WG. I guess to be nice or hospitable to someone I hated seems two faced to me. Not saying you are at all, just how I interpreted the question.
But isn't that the whole point of Christianity -- to be nice to someone who is hated? Jesus did it.

It's not that I can't be nice to someone who is hated, I am mean (hypothetically) to a woman who killed her child.

It's not that I can't be nice to someone who is hated, I am mean (hypothetically) to a woman who killed her child.
At the risk of getting more rocks thrown at me, I will remind you she was declared "not guilty" in a U.S. court of law. You and I don't KNOW if she killed her child or not. (And no, I don't need to see a list of the circumstantial evidence again.)

Would you visit her in prison if she were serving a life sentence?

NO! I would never visit her. I don't need a court to tell me she is guilty. I know she is. I don't believe everything I hear, I have made my own judgment on this woman. Now, if say she were spending a life in jail, and then it came to light she was not the murderer, and I mean there would have to be more than just circumstantial evidence, like the real murderer came forward, I would love to talk to her in church.

Would you visit her? And let’s say she was found guilty, and for some reason was not serving a life sentence. Would you still treat her the same way? And would you be able to forgive her if she has done what the courts feel is her "time and punishment"?

Would you visit her? And let's say she was found guilty, and for some reason was not serving a life sentence. Would you still treat her the same way? And would you be able to forgive her if she has done what the courts feel is her "time and punishment"?
Of course I would visit her!

If she had been found guilty in the first degree, which is what the prosecution was going for, she would be serving a life sentence. And yes, I would treat her the same way and forgive her even now. Forgiving her does NOT mean "Oh, it's okay now. What you did just fine."

It is not for me to judge her; that's in God hands.

Why would you want to visit her? What would you want to talk about with her? Forgiving her means accepting what she has done. I'm talking hypothetical here, all of this is just hypothetical if we encountered her scenarios.

I feel like I am a bad Christian because I can't or won't forgive her. I could never accept what she has done. Would you forgive the devil too? (not meaning that to sound as snarky as it appears). Would you forgive anyone who asked? Is there a cut off to how much evil a person can do before they don't get the forgivness anymore?

Forgiving her means accepting what she has done.
That is absolutely not true.

Really?

. Forgiveness - compassionate feelings that support a willingness to forgive
Mercifulness, mercy - the feeling that motivates compassion
2. forgiveness - the act of excusing a mistake or offense
Pardon
Benignity, kindness - a kind act
Condonation - a pardon by treating the offender as if the offense had not occurred
Exculpation - the act of freeing from guilt or blame

Yes, really.

Forgiveness is for YOU, not for the offender.

Forgiveness is letting go of the need for revenge and releasing negative thoughts of bitterness and resentment. -psychcentral.com

*****
Forgiveness is a decision to let go of resentment and thoughts of revenge. The act that hurt or offended you may always remain a part of your life, but forgiveness can lessen its grip on you and help you focus on other, positive parts of your life. Forgiveness can even lead to feelings of understanding, empathy and compassion for the one who hurt you.

Forgiveness doesn't mean that you deny the other person's responsibility for hurting you, and it doesn't minimize or justify the wrong. You can forgive the person without excusing the act. Forgiveness brings a kind of peace that helps you go on with life. -mayoclinic.com

*****
Forgiveness is typically defined as the process of concluding resentment, indignation or anger. -Wikipedia.com

That is absolutely not true.

Forgiving her, in my opinion, is sanctioning what she has done. I haven't said much here about this issue, I guess I don't feel as strongly about it as some others, more or less because I didn't follow the court proceedings as religiously, but I don't think I would ever want to face her without seeing 'blood on her hands' so to speak.

Tick

Forgiving her, in my opinion, is sanctioning what she has done.
Then you don't understand what forgiveness is.

Wondergirl, I wouldn't take this any further if I were you. Thanks.

Tick

Forgiving her, in my opinion, is sanctioning what she has done. I havent said much here about this issue, I guess I dont feel as strongly about it as some others, more or less because I didnt follow the court proceedings as religiously, but I dont think I would ever want to face her without seeing 'blood on her hands' so to speak.

tick

I completley agree. I am not angry with myself, I do not feel the need to have revenge, I feel the need for her to be punished for what she has done, and since the courts can not or will not do this, I believe God will in th end.

I completley agree. I am not angry with my self, I do not feel the need to have revenge, I feel the need for her to be punished for what she has done, and since the courts can not or will not do this, I believe God will in th end.

Bella, it won't be god who punishes her, it will be an angry person with a gun or knife somewhere along the line, maybe in years to come. We won't come to hear of this though, except a byline in a newspaper with her obit.

She has gone into obscurity where she wants to be. I would be quite pleased not having to read anymore here about her.

Did you read about the huskies that were found at a remote camp in Quebec, malnourished, tied to trees. The article said that homes have already been found for seven of these lovely dogs. They didn't say how many had to be put down. Now... bella, I hope the person that did this rots in hell.

Tick

Wondergirl, I wouldnt take this any further if I were you. Thanks.

tick

'scuse me for butting in, but that almost sounds like a threat. She showed several reliable sources that explain why forgiving is not condoning or sanctioning. What part of that do you take issue with?

'scuse me for butting in, but that almost sounds like a threat. She showed several reliable sources that explain why forgiving is not condoning or sanctioning. What part of that do you take issue with?

I don't mind you buttin in, dwashbur. Why would it be a threat? It was my own personal preference that she and I not pursue the forgiveness issue for my own personal reasons. The post you are referring to, where W outlined, yes those very good reasons, was in answer to Bella's post not mine.

As a matter of fact, how would anyone, me in particular as a long time member here, carry out what you are calling a threat? That is a bit much isn't it ? I am not, as you say, taking an issue with anything.

Tick

Tick, I haven't read about the huskies yet. But I can tell you about a similar story from New Brunswick. Some friends and I were camping in a pretty remote area of NB and one night we could hear this bone chilling howling. I mean it scared the crap out of us. The next morning we strapped on the snow shoes and went for a little walk. We came upon this farm with hundreds of huskies in a 1/4 acre penned area. We stopped and chatted to the man, he told us that he uses them for the dog sled races etc. He was feeding them, brushing them, they looked pretty well taken care of. Well a few months had passed and we didn't think much more of it.

The SPCA that I was at- at that time was going in for a 50 dog seizure. Turns out this man had all his best dogs up front, but the poor sick or pregnant ones were kept in a barn. The dogs were emaciated. They all had to be put down because they were feral. Some were young pups less than a year old who didn't make the cut, some were at our guess, around 9 or 10 years of age, with open wounds, maggots, blind, you name it. It was a very sad day. I look at dog sled runners in a new light now.


Okay hijacking over :)

Well, since I'm not a Christian, I can say that I don't forgive her, and I never will. A beautiful child is gone because of her, and many people not only grieved for that child, but searched for her, prayed that she'd be brought home safely, when Casey knew that she was dead the entire time they were searching.

She lied through her teeth to anyone that would listen, and she got away with murder. That's my opinion, and my firm belief. I don't care that the jury found her not guilty, even they think she did it, and many of them have come forward to say that.

She's not worthy of forgiveness, not from me, and she'll never get it from me. What others do is up to them.

My only hope is that her time on this earth is as difficult as it can be, so that she does have to pay for what she did in some way. I don't wish death on her, I don't hope that someone beats her up, I just want her life to be difficult. She took away a bright shining star from this earth. Her punishment should be fitting.

I doubt very much that God will have to deal with her. She'll never see the pearly gates of heaven. The devil will deal with her. She's going straight to hell, where she belongs, when the time comes.

I'm on the same emotional wavelength as Altenweg, but I understand what WG is trying to say. Her (WG) point is not just "Christian", it is universal.

Hatred and anger is a bitter fruit that spoils the tree from which it came. "Forgiveness" is the remedy. Forgiveness is about the forgiv-er, not the person being forgiven.

Certainly, in no conceivable way, does it condone an action or imply what was done is OK.

When Jesus forgave the sinner, he didn't say the action was condoned. He said, "Go, and sin no more".

Forgiveness is one of the most difficult things we will ever do. But it's far better than hatred which keeps us in the evil circle of the Casey Anthonys of this world.

I don't mind you buttin in, dwashbur. Why would it be a threat? It was my own personal preference that she and I not pursue the forgiveness issue for my own personal reasons. The post you are referring to, where W outlined, yes those very good reasons, was in answer to Bella's post not mine.

As a matter of fact, how would anyone, me in particular as a long time member here, carry out what you are calling a threat? That is a bit much isn't it ? I am not, as you say, taking an issue with anything.

Tick

The way it's phrased sounds like there's an "or else" attached to it. I too was wondering how such a threat might be carried out :) but it does in fact sound ominous the way you phrased it. Consider:


Wondergirl, I wouldn't take this any further if I were you. Thanks.

Now picture, say, Wyatt Earp looking at one of the Clantons, and saying "I wouldn't do that if I were you." That's how the phrasing comes across, at least to me.

"I'm not judgin', I'm just sayin'..." ;)