I recently moved to Louisiana and my electrical service provider is beci.org. I will soon start construction on a new house with a maximum calculated load of 196 amps. I say max load because a pool, hot tub, etc. will not be added until later down the road - if ever. I say Never and my wife says Immediately. I assume it would be wise to request 400 amp service from BECI? If they agree, I assume I would need to install a 400A Meter Socket (I understand this is 320A continuous - 400A max). I will have underground service to the house. My understanding is that I would need double lugs. I want to come out either the back or side of the meter base and go to the first 200A load center which will either be back to back with the meter base or very close. I want to come out the top of the meter base and go inside the house (within 3 feet of the meter base and within 2 feet of the first load center) to a 200A fused/breaker disconnect and then from this disconnect to a second 200A load center at the opposite end of the house. I understand that the second load center would now be a sub panel. From my calculations, the load will be almost equally split between each load center.

1) Would this be allowed or would I be required to have disconnects on the exterior of the house? I would prefer to keep all disconnects inside the house, if allowed.

2) How difficult will it be to bend the cables inside the meter base and get them where I want them to go? I plan on using copper. This will be my first time dealing with this size cable.

3) Are there different physical sizes/types of 400A meter bases that would give more room for the cables or make it easier?

4) Are the cables from the meter base to the first load center and to the 200A disconnect required to be enclosed in conduit?

5) Are the cables from the 200A disconnect to the second load center required to be in conduit - they will be running through the attic.

6) I will also entertain any ideas/suggestions concerning issues I have not have addressed.

Thanks in advance for your help!

My comments are in Red:


I want to come out the top of the meter base and go inside the house (within 3 feet of the meter base and within 2 feet of the first load center) to a 200A fused/breaker disconnect and then from this disconnect to a second 200A load center at the opposite end of the house. I understand that the second load center would now be a sub panel. From my calculations, the load will be almost equally split between each load center.

Not following you here. Typically a 320 amp meter would feed two 200 amp panels directly. Sound like you want to feed one panel then feed the second panel off of the first. This will not give you a 400 amp service, only 200 amp. you need to explain this further, as I think you are off base.

1) Would this be allowed or would I be required to have disconnects on the exterior of the house? I would prefer to keep all disconnects inside the house, if allowed.

Need to check with utility and local inspector about location of service disconnects. Both need to be in one location, either inside or out. Also, if the panel is farther way that a few feet, the feeder must have a disconnect with fuses or circuit breaker at the point of entracne into the building, either inside or our is allowed, again, depending on local requirements.

2)How difficult will it be to bend the cables inside the meter base and get them where I want them to go? I plan on using copper. This will be my first time dealing with this size cable.

Bending cable is not easy but not impossible. It is done on every service. There are tricks and techniques that cannot be taught on the internet.

3) Are there different physical sizes/types of 400A meter bases that would give more room for the cables or make it easier?

You are restricted to the meter sockets that are allowed by your local utility. Need to consult with them.

4) Are the cables from the meter base to the first load center and to the 200A disconnect required to be enclosed in conduit?

If your referring to SE cable, then no, does not need to be in conduit.

5) Are the cables from the 200A disconnect to the second load center required to be in conduit - they will be running through the attic.

Again, If your referring to SE cable, then no, does not need to be in conduit.

Knowing what type of cable you plan to use would be helpful.

6) I will also entertain any ideas/suggestions concerning issues I have not have addressed.

Honestly, if you have never done a 400 Amp service, I highly recommend that you hire an electrician to install it. He can have it installed completely in a few hours, you will be working on it for days, and I almost guarantee it will fail inspection. There still is the issue of grounding the service and bonding of metal piping systems in the home to discuss.

tkrussell - Thanks for spending your time to help me.

Not following you here. Typically a 320 amp meter would feed two 200 amp panels directly. Sounds like you want to feed one panel then feed the second panel off of the first. This will not give you a 400 amp service, only 200 amp. you need to explain this further, as I think you are off base. No, the first 200A load center (inside the house) will be either back to back with the meter base or within a foot of the meter base and fed from the meter lugs. The second panel (also inside the house) will be at the opposite end of the house. So I want to go from the meter lugs to a 200A fused disconnect (also inside the house but not the first load center) that is within 3 feet of the meter base and within 2 feet of the first panel. From this 200A fused disconnect, I want to go to the second 200A load center.

1) Both need to be in one location, either inside or out. That is one of my questions: Would this setup be considered "in one location"? Also, if the panel is farther way than a few feet, the feeder must have a disconnect with fuses or circuit breaker at the point of entracne into the building. This is why I was first going to a fused or breaker disconnect - to meet the requirements and also to protect the wire running to the second panel.

4) Are the cables from the meter base to the first load center and to the 200A disconnect required to be enclosed in conduit? If your referring to SE cable, then no, does not need to be in conduit. I'm not sure what other type of cables would be going from a meter base to a load center but yes I am talking about the SE cables. I was under the assumption that they had to be enclosed in conduit, which I plan to do, but was wondering how hard it would be to enclose copper SE cables in conduit.

5) Are the cables from the 200A disconnect to the second load center required to be in conduit - they will be running through the attic. Again, If your referring to SE cable, then no, does not need to be in conduit. I'm still can't imagine what other cables would be going from a 200A disconnect to a 200A load center but I was indeed talking about the cables supplying power to the panel - I didn't want to get into an argument about whether these were considered "SE" cables since they are actually feeding a sub panel.

6) I will also entertain any ideas/suggestions concerning issues I have not have addressed. Honestly, if you have never done a 400 Amp service, I highly recommend that you hire an electrician to install it. He can have it installed completely in a few hours, you will be working on it for days, and I almost guarantee it will fail inspection. There still is the issue of grounding the service and bonding of metal piping systems in the home to discuss. I have all the time in the world - well if you ask me - not my wife. She wanted the house and to be living in it yesterday. If I do it right, which is what I intend to do, I can't imagine why it would fail inspection. However, I intend to have a licensed electrician look it over when I consider myself finished. I did not want to bring up grounding issues until I got answers to these questions.

Again, thanks for taking your time to help me.

Tim,

I do not have near the experience that TK has, but I question how you arrived at a 400 Amp load.

Did you follow the NEC guidelines in the code book or are you just guestimating your needs? 400 Amp service seems to be awful amount of power for a standard size home even with the spousal mandated accessories. I'm curious, but do you know what code cycle Louisana is using now?

My concern mirrors TK's with respect to your safety. 1 Amp will stick you to a circuit and kill you. Not to mention what 400 amps can do to you. Also, it's not just about taking time because you have it available to you. It's about safety and codes, both building and electrical codes.

Unless you have been to classes regarding the NEC code, there is just about no way you will get through an inspection unscathed.

Also, the NEC is the minimum you have to do. It is about safety, not a how to manual.

I say this as I complete my third year of study on electrical systems and the NEC. I have been around electricity since I was a toy person.

Here are just a couple of questions I can think of that can get either your rough-in inspection failed.

1) Incorrect spacing of wall receptacle outlets. How far apart do you have to space the receptacles?

2) Does the feeder to your downstream panelboard need to be three wire or four wire?

3) What outlets need to be AFCI protected and what outlets need to be GFCI protected?

4) How is your fire alarm system to be set up?

5) Have you submitted an precise wiring plan to your AHJ for approval yet? Do you have your permit yet?

Again my comments in Red



tkrussell - Thanks for spending your time to help me.

Not following you here. Typically a 320 amp meter would feed two 200 amp panels directly. Sounds like you want to feed one panel then feed the second panel off of the first. This will not give you a 400 amp service, only 200 amp. you need to explain this further, as I think you are off base. No, the first 200A load center (inside the house) will be either back to back with the meter base or within a foot of the meter base and fed from the meter lugs. The second panel (also inside the house) will be at the opposite end of the house. So I want to go from the meter lugs to a 200A fused disconnect (also inside the house but not the first load center) that is within 3 feet of the meter base and within 2 feet of the first panel. From this 200A fused disconnect, I want to go to the second 200A load center.

See Page 13 of this catalog for the LA area:
http://www.milbankmfg.com/Products/Catalogs/CatalogFiles/PDF/LA-MS.pdf

I would use a 320 amp meter with 2 - 200 amp breakers built in.


1) Both need to be in one location, either inside or out. That is one of my questions: Would this setup be considered "in one location"? Also, if the panel is farther way than a few feet, the feeder must have a disconnect with fuses or circuit breaker at the point of entracne into the building. This is why I was first going to a fused or breaker disconnect - to meet the requirements and also to protect the wire running to the second panel.

See above answer. Breakers built into meter solves the problem. Need to consult with utility to learn what brand and type of meter socket they will allow.

4) Are the cables from the meter base to the first load center and to the 200A disconnect required to be enclosed in conduit? If your referring to SE cable, then no, does not need to be in conduit. I'm not sure what other type of cables would be going from a meter base to a load center but yes I am talking about the SE cables. I was under the assumption that they had to be enclosed in conduit, which I plan to do, but was wondering how hard it would be to enclose copper SE cables in conduit.

When someone says cable, sometimes they mean the wire that is pulled into conduit, so now I know you mean SE cable. SE cable is allowed to be installed without conduit, unless a sleeve is needed to protect from physical damage. Exactly what you need to run is called SER cable, it will have a total of 4 wires, 2 hots, one neutral, and one equipment ground.


5) Are the cables from the 200A disconnect to the second load center required to be in conduit - they will be running through the attic. Again, If your referring to SE cable, then no, does not need to be in conduit. I'm still can't imagine what other cables would be going from a 200A disconnect to a 200A load center but I was indeed talking about the cables supplying power to the panel - I didn't want to get into an argument about whether or not these were considered "SE" cables since they are actually feeding a sub panel.

6) I will also entertain any ideas/suggestions concerning issues I have not have addressed. Honestly, if you have never done a 400 Amp service, I highly recommend that you hire an electrician to install it. He can have it installed completely in a few hours, you will be working on it for days, and I almost guarantee it will fail inspection. There still is the issue of grounding the service and bonding of metal piping systems in the home to discuss. I have all the time in the world - well if you ask me - not my wife. She wanted the house and to be living in it yesterday. If I do it right, which is what I intend to do, I can't imagine why it would fail inspection. However, I intend to have a licensed electrician look it over when I consider myself finished. I did not want to bring up grounding issues until I got answers to these questions.

Since the wife thinks you have the time, have fun. Are you done yet?
Again, thanks for taking your time to help me.

To follow-up on me insisting you consult with your utility, I found this statement:

XI. METERING

All metering equipment necessary to properly measure the electricity furnished shall be installed, owned and maintained by the Cooperative.

In their Standard Terms and Conditions

http://www.beci.org/Images/Interior/residential%20services/beci%20terms%20&%20conditions.pdf

Donf - Thanks for your concerns.

Whew! I was beginning to get worried - but if this is your biggest concerns, I've got it made! I did NOT arrive at a 400A load. As stated, I calculated 196 amps. Gross load (based on similar appliances/equip may buy), 100% of 1st 10k, 40% remain, then / by 230A. I believe anything I do will be safer than 95% of wiring done by someone who just wants to finish the job - and started with a hangover. I intend to go above code! I will not be working live! I've been reading/studying preparing for this for over a year. I will address your concerns: (1) I know about recepts on all walls 24" wide, min every 12', 10' hallway, ~12" above floor, all counters > 12", max 48" above countertops, w/in 12" of islands, & etc. (2) Four to sub panel - neutrals must be on a bus that is isolated from the frame and all ground wires. (3) AFCI - All bedroom circuits; GFCI - Most kitch outlets, bathrooms, garages, porches, & etc. (4) All must go off simultaneously - also understand required locations of alarms.

Sorry for replying to your comments under the "answer" section but I typed 995 characters out of 1000 allowed as a comment and then it keeps telling me that I have exceeded the 1k limit even though it says I still have 5 char left - go figure. I hope wiring my house is not as hard as this!

tkrussell - Thanks for going out of your way to find the power company link for me. However, as it says, I am required to provide the meter base. Therefore, I was hoping to get the expert's advice regarding different possible size/configurations of meter bases for my situation. I can't understand why anyone would want disconnects outside their house where a mischievous person could simply flip a switch and turn off all the power to the house - I understand it would be convenient for the fire department. I suppose I could put a lock (if allowed) on the cabinet but then I couldn't disconnect the power in an emergency. Or are the breakers exposed even with the cabinet closed? Its seems like it would be very convenient, in an emergency, to be able to run to one location inside the house and turn off both panels (1st panel and disconnect for 2nd panel) while inside the house out of any potential rain and things I might stumble over in the yard. I will reply to your other questions in just a few minutes.

As stated under my reply to Donf, I can't for the life of me get the comment section of this site to work. So, I guess I'll just keep responding as an answer to my/your questions/responses.

tkrussell - Replies

See Page 13 of this catalog for the LA area:
http://www.milbankmfg.com/Products/C... /PDF/LA-MS.pdf

Now, I am going to definitely show my ignorance regarding meter bases. From the pdf file, it appears to me that a "4 terminal" base means 2 hot incoming terminals and 2 hot outgoing terminals and does not count the neutrals. I also assume terminal means the lugs or are the lugs separate and attach to the terminals - I realize I would need twin lugs.

What does ringless mean?

I would use a 320 amp meter with 2 - 200 amp breakers built in. See my response to your other post as to why I don't think I want a meter with breakers. Does my response make sense?

You must know my wife. She is constantly asking me "Are you finished researching yet?"

Ring and ringless only refers to the cover that is placed over the meter, some utilities prefer ring, and some ringless. The ring is the circular strap, for lack of better words, that surrounds the meter and holds the meter in the socket, Ringless is a cover placed over the meter to hold it in.

The issue of the main breakers being outdoors is for access to the fire dept, and some utilities prefer to know there is no load when working on the meter.

Sure, I suppose vandals can be an issue, then locks are used to prevent someone from accessing the breakers.

Inside or out, the main breakers must be together. Before choosing yourself, consult with the utility and local inspector to learn what they may require.

Single phase meters do not measure any current in the neutral, these simply connect together in the meter to pass through.

Do not use the comment feature, keep replying as you have been.

Tim,

My main concern is your safety. You will be working on a live unprotected circuit when you connect the service feed from the utility to your home. Unless of course the utility is going to do the attachment.

Your load calculations are incorrect.

The math behind the calculations is pretty straight forward.

You use the outside area of the home to calculate the volt amps needed for general use outlets and lighting in volt/amps.

To get the minimum number of circuits, you then divide by 120 (voltage) and further divide by 15 or 20 amps to determine the minimum of branch circuits needed for the general use. Then apply the reduction portion.

There are code required receptacles that have designated VA you have to include.

You have to calculate the size of the heating and cooling units (load size) Determine which is the largest load then select the largest load for use with you calculation.

You don't combine or calculate both loads.

There is a lot more to consider but the best resource would be to get the code book and use their model to do your load calcs.

Grounding and bonding are more extremely critical topics.

Please do not misunderstand me. I am not telling you you cannot do this work, I am telling you make sure you do this correctly.

One serious mistake and your new home can become a pile of cinders and you get to start over.

Not bad, you only missed one. Go back to the code book and see where AFCI breakers are to be installed.

The 2008 edition expanded their locations.

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">Donf, I don't know why, but I will entertain your replies once again; if for no other reason other than to help me learn.</FONT>

My main concern is your safety. You will be working on a live unprotected circuit when you connect the service feed from the utility to your home. Unless of course the utility is going to do the attachment.

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">I have learned a lot in the last year and half but I'm not about to start dealing with live service feed wires or for that matter any other live wire. I may be crazy but I'm not stupid! The power company will indeed connect from their transformer to the meter base. I am so naïve, I thought that was standard practice - I can't imagine them allowing anyone else to do this.</FONT>

Your load calculations are incorrect. <FONT COLOR="BLUE">If they are, you sure haven't proved why they are wrong.</FONT>

The math behind the calculations is pretty straight forward. <FONT COLOR="BLUE">I couldn't agree more but math never was my strong point.</FONT>

You use the outside area of the home to calculate the volt amps needed for general use outlets and lighting in volt/amps. <FONT COLOR="BLUE">Where in my previous answer did I say I didn't use the sq. ftg. Of the home to calculate the basic lighting/receptacle load?</FONT>

To get the minimum number of circuits, you then divide by 120 (voltage) and further divide by 15 or 20 amps to determine the minimum of branch circuits needed for the general use. Then apply the reduction portion. <FONT COLOR="BLUE">As I said in my previous post, I intend to wire ABOVE code. I will be using many more circuits than the minimum required. And everything is going to be wired with that big 12G stuff.</FONT>

There are code required receptacles that have designated VA you have to include. <FONT COLOR="BLUE">Really? Again, that is no problem. I intend to assign two 15A circuits wired with 12 gauge (not the cheap 14 gauge) wire and one 20A circuit just for the kitchen counters and I'm going to put the living room on a separate 20A circuit (again using 12 gauge wire) all by itself. I was originally planning on using three 20A circuits just for the kitchen counters and two 20A circuits just for the living room (with all of the TV and stereo equipment and all that other stuff - I would die if the TV when out in the middle of one of my favorite soaps or America's Got Talent) but when I realized I could put the girls (two 15 yr. old twin girls) bathroom on one 20A circuit, I realized I was being much more cautious than the NEC requires. Goes to show you how scared and nervous I originally was when I first started this. That seems like over a year ago now. Back then I thought curling irons, blow dryers, bath heaters, vent fans, and whirlpool tubs drew more amps than that but just goes to show what I know. I was originally afraid that it would throw the breaker and the girls would be caught in the dark. They would die if that happened and they were the only ones home. I may still throw in a separate 15A circuit wired with 12 just to be on the safe side. Glad the NEC is there to protect me and my family. By the way, what does VA stand for?</FONT>

You have to calculate the size of the heating and cooling units (load size) Determine which is the largest load then select the largest load for use with you calculation. <FONT COLOR="BLUE">Again, who said that I added both of them together?</FONT>

You don't combine or calculate both loads. <FONT COLOR="BLUE">I'm glad you're here to point that out for me. I may be WAY over on my calculations.</FONT>

There is a lot more to consider but the best resource would be to get the code book and use their model to do your load calcs. <FONT COLOR="BLUE">I went to Walmart today but nobody knew what an NEC book was. Not even the manager and he was at least in his late 20s or maybe even 30s. I thought he would definitely know. I going to check at Target tomorrow.</FONT>

Grounding and bonding are more extremely critical topics. <FONT COLOR="BLUE">Can you give me some pointers/suggestions?</FONT>

Please do not misunderstand me. I am not telling you you cannot do this work, I am telling you make sure you do this correctly. <FONT COLOR="BLUE">Well, you sure the heck don't provide any encouragement. I'm sure glad you are not teaching my girls. It is precisely because of people like you that I AM doing it myself.</FONT>

One serious mistake and your new home can become a pile of cinders and you get to start over. <FONT COLOR="BLUE">Nothing like leaving a Carbon Footprint.</FONT>

Not bad, you only missed one. Go back to the code book and see where AFCI breakers are to be installed. <FONT COLOR="BLUE">Hope to get one at Target tomorrow. I seriously don't know where, other than bedroom circuits, AFCI breakers are required. Seriously, if you know, please tell me. I really don't have a clue.</FONT>

The 2008 edition expanded their locations.

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">Thanks for your help but maybe you should listen to your wife once in a while. A little more positive encouragement would go a long way - or perhaps with all of your negativity you should get together with my wife and the two of you could compare notes.</FONT>

I promise you that whether I listen to my wife is immaterial. It has nothing to do with what is facing you.

If you want a pat on the head and to be told what a great guy you are, pick a different field. Electricity can be a killer.

As to my teaching abilities, I'm not here to teach you. You are the one supposedly prepared to do this work, however I do not believe your are. I have no doubt that you are smart, heck your answers show me that, but you appear to uneducated with respect to residential wiring, which is very fixable and were I your teacher or a teacher for your girls we would be having a totally different conversation, so please put away your attitude.

If you do not already have a copy of Ray Mullins' "Residential Wiring", that is an excellent text book. The publisher is Cengage/Delmar and it can be found at Barnes and Noble. The book is specific to code levels. The 2008 and 2011 editions are currently on the market.

You can purchase the NEC Code book at any Barnes and Nobel or Borders. If they do not have it in stock they can order it. It will cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $80. You can even order it on-line or via phone from the NEC. It is referred to as NFPA Document #70. (National Fire Protection Agency).

I believe both books can be purchased through Amazon.com. I purchased them through Barnes and Noble.

However, before you spend the money, I strongly suggest that you contact your AHJ to find out what code level LA is using.

For example, Virginia has just adopted the 2008 cycle of the code. The current level is the 2011 cycle.

14 AWG cable is listed for 15 amp circuits. This is the size to use for lighting circuits. You can use 12 AWG (listed for 20 amp circuits) but in my humble opinion that would be overkill.

14 AWG wire is not "the cheap stuff", it is tested and listed for the smaller amperage.

For example, you can use 12AWG for the lighting circuit,but if you ever tie a 14 AWG section to that branch circuit, the entire branch circuit would have to be reduced to 15 AMPS.

It is a statement of heat and fire prevention. A 14 AWG wire can safely handle 15 amps. It cannot handle 20 Amps.

AFCI circuits have to be in just about any living space.

Kitchens require a minimum of 2 20 amp circuits.

I have learned a lot in the last year and half but I'm not about to start dealing with live service feed wires or for that matter any other live wire. I may be crazy but I'm not stupid! The power company will indeed connect from their transformer to the meter base. I am so naive, I thought that was standard practice - I can't imagine them allowing anyone else to do this.

Here in Virginia, you are given the meter base and expected to install it yourself. Primarily because Va. Law say that a homeowner can do any work on his home.

I just replaced my meter base. Dominion Power handed me the base and told me to call for a disconnect when I was ready for the install.

On the disconnect day, the tech came, disconnected the feeders, covered the ends of the cables with electrical tape and told me to call for the inspection before I put the feeders back onto the new meter base.

Your area may do something entirely different. Check with your utility company.

Oh, while I'm thinking of it, are you planning on running temporary power from the utility while you are building the structure or will you be using a generator on site? There are different codes that apply to both situations.

Tim, I promise you, I am willing to help you, providing my wife doesn't have other tasks for me, but you are about to jump into a snake pit with little more than half an idea of how to do the work.

Tim with respect to the girls' bathroom.

Is it one or two bathrooms? This is very important.

A bathroom is required to have at least 20 amp GFCI protected circuit.

If that circuit is the only circuit in the bathroom it can supply other devices in that room. (In that situation, you cannot extend this circuit any further.

You do not want to have the lights on the same circuit as a GFCI protected circuit.

Now that said, you can connect the lights in front of the GFCI receptacle and not downstream of it.

<FONT COLOR="Red">Donf,</FONT>

As to my teaching abilities, I'm not here to teach you. You are the one supposedly prepared to do this work, however I do not believe your are. I have no doubt that you are smart, heck your answers show me that, but you appear to uneducated with respect to residential wiring, which is very fixable and were I your teacher or a teacher for your girls we would be having a totally different conversation, so please put away your attitude.

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">Okay, I agree I was being an ***. I'll try hard to put away my attitude if you'll try doing the same. In my opinion you deserved it with the test you gave in your first response (I did not come here to prove how much I know or may not know) and then all of the assumptions you made about how I made my load calculation. And you continued to make all kinds of assumptions with this response. Truthfully, do I actually need 320A service? I highly doubt it. Every assumption I made concerning the amperage of kitchen appliances (none have been purchased yet) was based on the biggest energy hog I could find. The same for water heaters, hot tub, and pool. However, it will be an all electric home - natural gas is unavailable. And I would like it to be wired for the future - 200A may be fine for now but that is why all of the people come to this site to learn about upgrading their old service. And yes, as I'm sure you already know, it's a lot like wanting the fastest car or biggest boat - none of which make complete sense. Will I go with 400A service when it is all said and done? I don't know. I may decide the cost is just too much or the POCO may not agree I need 400A service. Just trying to learn and make the decision right now.</FONT>

If you do not already have a copy of Ray Mullins' "Residential Wiring", that is an excellent text book. The publisher is Cengage/Delmar and it can be found at Barnes and Noble. The book is specific to code levels. The 2008 and 2011 editions are currently on the market.

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">I haven't read Ray Mullins book but I can highly recommend "Wiring a House - Taunton's For Pros by Pros" written by Rex Cauldwell. Not only is it very well written/helpful but it is funny/eye opening at the same time. I also highly recommend Black and Decker's "The Complete Guide to Wiring". The pictures in B&D's book are excellent. I have read/studied both of these books front to back several times.</FONT>

14 AWG cable is listed for 15 amp circuits. This is the size to use for lighting circuits. You can use 12 AWG (listed for 20 amp circuits) but in my humble opinion that would be overkill. <FONT COLOR="BLUE">I already knew this. I somewhat agree but may be able to come out ahead buying #12 in bulk.</FONT>

14 AWG wire is not "the cheap stuff", it is tested and listed for the smaller amperage. <FONT COLOR="BLUE">Another attempt by me to be funny.</FONT>

For example, you can use 12AWG for the lighting circuit,but if you ever tie a 14 AWG section to that branch circuit, the entire branch circuit would have to be reduced to 15 AMPS. <FONT COLOR="BLUE">I agree.</FONT>

It is a statement of heat and fire prevention. A 14 AWG wire can safely handle 15 amps. It cannot handle 20 Amps. <FONT COLOR="BLUE">Would never put #14 on a 20A breaker or attach a 20A receptacle to it.</FONT>

AFCI circuits have to be in just about any living space. <FONT COLOR="BLUE">This is the one thing I was being serious about. Which version of the NEC requires this?</FONT>

Kitchens require a minimum of 2 20 amp circuits. <FONT COLOR="BLUE">Since you assumed I was clueless - just playing along.</FONT>

I have learned a lot in the last year and half but I'm not about to start dealing with live service feed wires or for that matter any other live wire. I may be crazy but I'm not stupid! The power company will indeed connect from their transformer to the meter base. I am so naïve, I thought that was standard practice - I can't imagine them allowing anyone else to do this.

Here in Virginia, you are given the meter base and expected to install it yourself. Primarily because Va. Law say that a homeowner can do any work on his home.

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">Another time I was being serious. I know for a fact that they don't allow that here.</FONT>

Oh, while I'm thinking of it, are you planning on running temporary power from the utility while you are building the structure or will you be using a generator on site? There are different codes that apply to both situations. <FONT COLOR="BLUE">Working on one issue at a time.</FONT>

Tim, I promise you, I am willing to help you, providing my wife doesn't have other tasks for me, but you are about to jump into a snake pit with little more than half an idea of how to do the work. <FONT COLOR="BLUE">The "half an idea" is the kind of responses I'm talking about. You sure are making a lot of assumptions. I might settle for 1/4th but not 1/2 - no way.</FONT>

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">I really do appreciate you taking time to provide responses but please try to be a little more open-minded to someone else's knowledge/abilities. I get enough negative responses from my friends - I don't need them from my enemies too. :) By the way, I do appreciate the positive things you have said about me. Here's to a new start.</FONT>

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">tkrussell,</FONT>

Thanks for your last reply and note about replying as an answer. Also, for your inspiration of responding with color. I have several more questions about meter bases, but they will have to wait until tomorrow - got to get some sleep before work tomorrow.

tkrussell,

Would you please help me understand the difference between the following two meter bases - other than overhead vs underground and possible price differences. Why would someone choose one over the other?

http://www.milbankmfg.com/Products/Catalogs/CatalogFiles/PDF/LA-MS.pdf

U5059-X-2/200-K3L vs. M400-UG-APS-LC

Thanks!

These meter bases can be found on page 13.

tkrussell,

Sorry but I listed the wrong two meter bases. I meant to list:

U5059-X-2/200-K3L vs U4031-O-2/200

tkrussell,

I am combining my last 3 post here to get them together correctly.

Would you please help me understand the difference between the following two meter bases - other than overhead vs underground and possible price differences. Why would someone choose one over the other?

http://www.milbankmfg.com/Products/Catalogs/CatalogFiles/PDF/LA-MS.pdf

These meter bases can be found on page 13.

U5059-X-2/200-K3L vs U4031-O-2/200

Thanks.

Other than the physical dimensions, and that the U4031 is just for underground, electrically both will do the same job.

tkrussell,

I am going to take your advice and install a 320/400 meter base with breakers built-in. I was originally against having any breakers on the outside of the house, but this setup definitely seems to be the best for my situation. Thanks for the service you provide to the community here.

Hi TimmiZ

I'm also considering purchasing U5059-X-2/200-K3L. I'm concerned about the breakers being on the outside. Doesn't it mean that someone could trip the breakers and pretty much get your house without any power? I'm thinking about someone trying to break in. If you have a picture of the meter base with the cover installed, that might be helpful to figure out how to protect the breakers. What did you do about it? By the way when the power company locks the front cover, does it mean that the breakers are then inaccessible? If I work on a load center, I like to both trip the breaker on the load center but also to trip the corresponding breaker on the meter base.

Most, if not all, electrical equipment that has an outdoor disconnect will have a hasp or some other menas of using a padlock to prevent someone fro shutting off the disconnect.

The utility will only seal the meter itself, they will never seal or lock a customers disconnect.