I want to pay for my sons college we agreed to pay 50/50. His mother is refusing our son to give me the email/pin that would give me viewing rights to the financial obligation which will show all grants, financial aid, etc. This is the colleges recommendation for the paying party to be signed up in the system. Instead she has viewing rights and will send me invoices from the college. I am suspicious that she won't include all the information. The email/pin wasn't in place when we divorced if I'm not given the viewing rights do I have any recourse?

Viewing rights... your son most likely has the PIN. If he does not, he can request the pin # online and have it sent to your address. If you have your son's social security #, you may be able to do that yourself (as long as you can have it arrive to your address only). Your ex will most likely find out about this immediately if her e-mail address is linked to the account directly.

If your financial information was indeed used, you definitely have rights.

I'm sure my son does have the pin but his mother has convinced him that he cannot release it to me or it will make him ineligible for financial aid. My financial information wasn't used at all. Her stand is that his financial aid depends on her income and keeping the EOC on the FAFSFA at zero. I want viewing rights and pay this online not through her. Can I refuse payment until I'm given what the college recommends in situations like this?

Viewing rights...your son most likely has the pin number. If he does not, he can request the pin # online and have it sent to your address. If you have your son's social security #, you may be able to do that yourself (as long as you can have it arrive to your address only). Your ex will most likely find out about this immediately if her e-mail address is linked to the account directly.

If your financial information was indeed used, you definitely have rights.



This is not correct. Is the tuition arrangement Court ordered, part of a separation and/or divorce agreement? If so, your wife/ex could very well be in violation of the Court Order. You would then take her back to Court and ask for full disclosure.

This depends on the State (does your State require that you pay for a college education) and other circumstances.

You are not automatically entitled to the financial info. Someone is in charge - and it appears to be your "ex." Does she have to share the truth with you? Yes. There are ways to do that.

I'm sure my son does have the pin but his mother has convinced him that he cannot release it to me or it will make him ineligible for financial aid. My financial information was not used at all. Her stand is that his financial aid depends on her income and keeping the EOC on the FAFSFA at zero. I want viewing rights and pay this online not through her. Can I refuse payment until I'm given what the college recommends in situations like this?

It is Court ordered that we pay 50/50 the order is in MD she is in FL and he is going to college in FL. I want to pay my half but I want viewing rights and to pay online (see above also).

Assuming your son is at least 18:

Your son's mother has no rights your son has not given her.

Look up FERPA laws.

YOUR SON is the only one who can grant rights to see or not see any of his financial or academic information. His mother has no bearing on it whatsoever.

Make an appointment to go with your son to financial aid at his school and have THEM explain it to him.

I agree with Synnen.

Have you sat down and talked to your son. I think a good chat with your son will clean this up. My uncle ran into the same problem, and he was paying $2000 more than what his ex-wife was paying. He talked to his son, and they came up with a great game plan. My uncle still pays his half of the actual tuition cost after scholorships and he gives his son extra money for living expenses. It worked out great for everyone but the ex-wife. Make sure he understands that you are still helping him, and for you to do that you need to see how much you owe every quarter/semester.

We spoke on the phone I live in MD he in FL and I explained to him that this would not hurt any scholarship/grants he would be receiving (his mother told him it would) she has complete control over him. I also agreed to pay a portion of living expenses in the agreement but am not agreeing to an amount at this time until I am given the viewing rights of tution.

And what does the divorce/separation agreement say?

This is posted under Family Law. The Court documents control. Maybe it's addressed; maybe it's not.

Without knowing what is in writing it is impossible to answer 100% correctly.

Wow, even with talking to him he is still holding out. You may want to talk to your lawyer to find out the right way to move on this. I am guessing that you may not have enough to talk to the lawyers since you are asking on here, but maybe you can try find out your rights and see what they advise.
If you are expected to pay half you may get in trouble if you don't pay up.

I personally feel that after a child is 18, a court shouldn't force a parent to pay anything for college. My parents did not have the money to help me, but I am sitting here typing this with two great degrees. Our court systems are crazy right now.

You should suggest to your son that he give his pin to NO ONE, including you or your ex.

Parents who cosign on a student loan or take out a parent loan receive their own pin. A financial aid advisor at your son's school should be able to help you with that.

The Department of Education PIN that is issued to the social security number is extremely sensitive and they warn you several times not to disclose it to anyone at all when you fill out FAFSA.

My thought process is she has lied on FAFSFA and wants to benfit from the financial aid my son is awarded but expects me to pay the full amount.

What EXACTLY does your divorce decree say about paying for college?

For my third time - what does the paperwork filed with the Court (whatever that may be) say?

I agree with Synnen.

Have you sat down and talked to your son. I think a good chat with your son will clean this up. My uncle ran into the same problem, and he was paying $2000 more than what his ex-wife was paying. He talked to his son, and they came up with a great game plan. My uncle still pays his half of the actual tuition cost after scholorships and he gives his son extra money for living expenses. It worked out great for everyone but the ex-wife. Make sure he understands that you are still helping him, and for you to do that you need to see how much you owe every quarter/semester.


You cannot go outside the Court's Order - WHAT DO THE COURT ORDERS SAY?

The OP and his "ex" must comply with the Court Orders or they are in contempt.

You cannot do ANYTHING that goes against what the court ordered. Synnen is right that he controls access to all his college info. Maybe he is hiding behind the mother blaming her because he doesn't want you to have access. I don't know. But if you believe she is not giving you info and making you pay more than your share, then you go to court for a modification of the order.

So if you are to pay 1/2 and if she will not provide full documents to show you what 1/2 is, take her back to court to force her to provide those records so that you can pay 1/2.

No. You are not apart of the document so I'm assuming maybe your income is higher than your ex's income. It works to not have you listed. And you cannot pay through the fafsa website anyhow... what you can do is request to see the bill from the school which is also usually online on the college website. Speak to the mother and ask her to meet you at a library so you can view the college bill online (through your son's account with the school). If you are entirely against this, try calling the school directly and asking the how much tuition is due on your son's acount. Don't tell them about the divorce, etc... just let them (bursar's) know you'd like to make a payment but you need to know what's due
'

Embracingpose--

That is a VIOLATION of FERPA.

If he calls and asks to view the bill, and the school LETS him when his son hasn't given permission---there's a whole lot more trouble there than it's worth.

I WORK in the registrar's office at a school, and I work closely with the Financial Aid office and the Bursar's office.

The school cannot disclose that information to him without his son's permission.

What is concerning is I'm a family contributor willing to pay 50/50 and the Mother only provided her income on the FAFSFA keeping the EFC at it seems she is trying to hide from me the actual cost possibly pocketing money why else would she be keeping my son from giving me viewing rights??

It is HIS record.

If YOU co-signed on his student loans, then YOU should have a PIN to see the information.

If, however, his mother was the only co-signer--then SHE has a PIN, and doesn't have to share anything with you.

I want to know what your divorce decree says. You keep dodging that question.

No. You are not apart of the document so I'm assuming maybe your income is higher than your ex's income. It works to not have you listed. And you cannot pay through the fafsa website anyhow...what you can do is request to see the bill from the school which is also usually online on the college website. Speak to the mother and ask her to meet you at a library so you can view the college bill online (through your son's account with the school). If you are entirely against this, try calling the school directly and asking the how much tuition is due on your son's acount. Don't tell them about the divorce, etc....just let them (bursar's) know you'd like to make a payment but you need to know what's due

First, the proper way to respond to a question here is to use the Answer options, not Comment on your own post.

Second, this is a law forum, answers here need to conform to statutory law. Your answers show a lack of knowledge of the law and are, in fact advocating violating the law. This is not acceptable on this site.

EmbracingPose does not find this helpful : The student always has access to their own information. The parent's info is entered onto FAFSA documents, but it is usually the student whom enters all information unless this gentleman's ex took control of all information. Which I seriously doubt


The fact that you "seriously doubt" something does not make it true. Your quasi-legal advice is full of "most likely." It is entirely possible that the mother has taken charge. Your posts are full of misinformation and guesses on your part.

You also have misused the rating system.

And please look up the usage of "whom" vs "who."

EmbracingPose does not find this helpful : The student always has access to their own information. The parent's info is entered onto FAFSA documents, but it is usually the student whom enters all information unless this gentleman's ex took control of all information. Which I seriously doubt

First, may I call your attention to the guidelines for using the comments feature found here:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/feedback/using-comments-feature-24951.html

Second, actually it is mostly the parent who enters info into the FAFSA sites, NOT the student. Usually the student doesn't know all that info. And students usually don't see the FAFSA info, only the results in terms of financial aid.

So not only have you been wrong, but you have wrongfully used the ratings feature to label correct information as incorrect.

Here is a suggestion you might try. Open an account for your portion of the bill and put the money into that for safe keeping. When the tuition bill comes due and you get your copy you can call to verify that information. Since there is a court order in place if they don't want to willingly deal with you then you can ask for an order to "compell" and the school will have to comply with the court order. Until such time keep making the payment into the account until your satisfied that the payment is genuine and proper. And yes you should have full access to your sons records as going to college is a privlage and not a right. The courts can revoke the funding should he fall below a certain average.

And yes you should have full access to your sons records as going to college is a privlage and not a right. The courts can revoke the funding should he fall below a certain average.

Nope.

Parents can CHOOSE not to provide funds for the privilege of going to college.

FERPA Law decides that parents are NOT given access to student information once the student is enrolled in a post-seconary institution and is over the age of 18 (there are different rules for the very intelligent 14 year olds attending college).

While the parent generally has access to their OWN information provided on the FAFSA, they do NOT have the right to access the student's academic or financial record without the student's permission.

Believe me---I work with this every day and have to deal with irate parents who are upset that they are "paying for all of this" and don't have the access they want.

I still believe that setting up a call where the student and financial aid officer are in the FA office and dad is on the phone can clear a good portion of this up.

Nope.

Parents can CHOOSE not to provide funds for the privilege of going to college.

FERPA Law decides that parents are NOT given access to student information once the student is enrolled in a post-seconary institution and is over the age of 18 (there are different rules for the very intelligent 14 year olds attending college).

While the parent generally has access to their OWN information provided on the FAFSA, they do NOT have the right to access the student's academic or financial record without the student's permission.

Believe me---I work with this every day and have to deal with irate parents who are upset that they are "paying for all of this" and don't have the access they want.

I still believe that setting up a call where the student and financial aid officer are in the FA office and dad is on the phone can clear a good portion of this up.

Do you have anything you can quote on that? What Im seeing on the government website seems to be oppisite of what your saying.

See section 99.4 (Parental Rights)

Family Education Rights & Privacy Act (FERPA) Regulations (http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/reg/ferpa/index.html)

http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/pdf/ferparegs.pdf



Ref:

§ 99.4 What are the rights of parents?
An educational agency or institution
Shall give full rights under the Act to
Either parent, unless the agency or
Institution has been provided with
Evidence that there is a court order, State
Statute, or legally binding document
Relating to such matters as divorce,
Separation, or custody that specifically
Revokes these rights.
(Authority: 20 U.S.C. 1232g)

Parents can CHOOSE not to provide funds for the privilege of going to college.



Also Id like to address this as it isn't true in all circumstances. Indiana Family law has provisions for extended child supprt to the age of 21 with provisions for Extended education. The law is very clear on what qualifies. So its not always a choice when it comes to a court order for child support. The courts have made that choice for you. Don't pay then go to jail.

In this particular case there is no option for the non-custodial parent not to pay. College tuition is by Court Order. If OP doesn't pay he is in contempt.

If OP doesn't trust the custodial parent he has to go back to Court and request full disclosure. In the meantime he can advise the mother that he is placing the funds in escrow pending the Court's decision OR pending full disclosure.

I am only addressing NY but I don't believe it would be any different anywhere else.

He hasn't actually said that his court order states that---or have I missed that?

We've asked several times for the wording of his court order.

And even if his court order DOES state that--I cannot believe that any court would insist a parent pay for Harvard when all the parent can afford is a local state school. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but a court order to pay x% of tuition for an expensive school because that's where the CP and the student decide--that just seems excessive.

But--on to FERPA. Here's the page I often refer parents to: Disclosure of Information from Education Records to Parents of Postsecondary Students (http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/hottopics/ht-parents-postsecstudents.html)

The part you are thinking of is this part: "When may a school disclose information to parents of dependent students? Under FERPA, schools may release any and all information to parents, without the consent of the eligible student, if the student is a dependent for tax purposes under the IRS rules. " Most of the time, post-secondary schools do NOT have parents' tax statements, knowing who filed and who didn't. Therefore, general school policies cover most situations with the fact that all information must be released through the student. I would NEVER release a student's educational record without either the student's permission or a subpoena/court order. Period. And I have all SORTS of agencies who try to get that information on a regular basis.

Basically, the section you were looking at, Califdad (we need to find you a better nickname), is the section for K-12 students. It completely changes once a student enters a post-secondary institution.

So--if the parent REALLY pushes, and has proof that he's claimed the child on taxes, he may get the FA department to release a statement of tuition---but I doubt it.

Also Id like to address this as it isnt true in all circumstances. Indiana Family law has provisions for extended child supprt to the age of 21 with provisions for Extended education. The law is very clear on what qualifies. So its not always a choice when it comes to a court order for child support. The courts have made that choice for you. Dont pay then go to jail.

I don't think you understood her but you're both right.

Synn said a parent can choose not to pay for college, which is true. You said some states allow for support to be paid after the child's 18th birthday, provided they are a full-time college student - this is also true.

However, a parent is not typically required to pay for a child's college tuition. They MAY have to pay the custodial parent while the child is attending college, but they are not paying for tuition itself.

And as Synn said above, we're still waiting for the OP to tell us what his court order says. That would clear everything up for all of us... *waiting*

He hasn't actually said that his court order states that---or have I missed that?


From post #6 located on Page 1 of the thread.

Comment on JudyKayTee's post

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmbracingPose
Viewing rights... your son most likely has the PIN. If he does not, he can request the pin # online and have it sent to your address. If you have your son's social security #, you may be able to do that yourself (as long as you can have it arrive to your address only). Your ex will most likely find out about this immediately if her e-mail address is linked to the account directly.

If your financial information was indeed used, you definitely have rights.



This is not correct. Is the tuition arrangement Court ordered, part of a separation and/or divorce agreement? If so, your wife/ex could very well be in violation of the Court Order. You would then take her back to Court and ask for full disclosure.

This depends on the State (does your State require that you pay for a college education) and other circumstances.

You are not automatically entitled to the financial info. Someone is in charge - and it appears to be your "ex." Does she have to share the truth with you? Yes. There are ways to do that.


Posted by OP:


It is Court ordered that we pay 50/50 the order is in MD she is in FL and he is going to college in FL. I want to pay my half but I want viewing rights and to pay online (see above also).

I don't think you understood her but you're both right.

Synn said a parent can choose not to pay for college, which is true. You said some states allow for support to be paid after the child's 18th birthday, provided they are a full-time college student - this is also true.

However, a parent is not typically required to pay for a child's college tuition. They MAY have to pay the custodial parent while the child is attending college, but they are not paying for tuition itself.

And as Synn said above, we're still waiting for the OP to tell us what his court order says. That would clear everything up for all of us....*waiting*

Here is a thread posted on this site that explains the Indiana situation.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/family-law/indiana-child-support-guidelines-college-453386.html




Ind. Code § 31-1-11.5-12(b)(1) provides that a child support order may include sums for institution of higher learning.

You could be ordered to pay for all or a portion of your child's college education if your divorce state has a law giving a court the power to award college support, also called post-secondary or post-minority support. College support may be in addition to child support, a part of child support, or a separate payment after regular child support ends. It can be used to pay for an education at a college, university, vocational school, or other type of post-secondary educational institution

He hasn't actually said that his court order states that---or have I missed that?

We've asked several times for the wording of his court order.

And even if his court order DOES state that--I cannot believe that any court would insist a parent pay for Harvard when all the parent can afford is a local state school. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but a court order to pay x% of tuition for an expensive school because that's where the CP and the student decide--that just seems excessive.

But--on to FERPA. Here's the page I often refer parents to: Disclosure of Information from Education Records to Parents of Postsecondary Students (http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/hottopics/ht-parents-postsecstudents.html)

The part you are thinking of is this part: "When may a school disclose information to parents of dependent students? Under FERPA, schools may release any and all information to parents, without the consent of the eligible student, if the student is a dependent for tax purposes under the IRS rules. " Most of the time, post-secondary schools do NOT have parents' tax statements, knowing who filed and who didn't. Therefore, general school policies cover most situations with the fact that all information must be released through the student. I would NEVER release a student's educational record without either the student's permission or a subpoena/court order. Period. And I have all SORTS of agencies who try to get that information on a regular basis.

Basically, the section you were looking at, Califdad (we need to find you a better nickname), is the section for K-12 students. It completely changes once a student enters a post-secondary institution.

So--if the parent REALLY pushes, and has proof that he's claimed the child on taxes, he may get the FA department to release a statement of tuition---but I doubt it.



I asked four times before the OP answered: "It is Court ordered that we pay 50/50 the order is in MD she is in FL and he is going to college in FL. I want to pay my half but I want viewing rights and to pay online (see above also)." I also said that without this information all "advice" is purely speculation.

If the "ex" is not providing full financial disclosure the OP has to go back to Court and DEMAND full financial disclosure.

As far as not believing the Court would demand that a parent pay half of an expensive school - believe it. It's true. I'm not saying that one parent or the other can't go back to Court and claim that school expenses are unaffordable, unreasonable, excessive, but if the Order does not limit choices and set dollar amounts, yes, the child can be accept to Harvard and expect the parents to share the expense by Court Order.

Again - while this is all very interesting the Court Order prevails. If the "ex" isn't making disclosure, OP needs to go back to Court.

There is no other way around this.

This also could have been settled X number of posts ago if the OP had answered the first 1, 2, 3 times I asked the question.