Dear All Advice Givers:

A little history:
Both of us are 37, in the process of getting a divorce and have children. Have been dating for a year. We both have keys to each of our homes.

On Friday, 4/15, we were over his apartment and was having a good time. We got into a mtlle argument over me talking to a realtor, (I asked if he wanted to move in and he said eventually, just didn't want to right after the divorce for the sake of his children, I agreed and never brought it up again). When I told him I spoke with a the realtor, he went off. I told him that he made his decision about not moving in so why couldn't I? We then talked it out and I thought everything was fine. I left and went home. Texted him that I was home safe, both said our goodnights and I love yous and made plans for

Saturday, 4/15 came and I didn't gety normal "Good morning sweetie" text. Thought it was odd, but chalked it up to he was busy. By noon, I still haven't heard from him. I texted him about dinner and he "appreciated the offer, he wasn't feeling well and wanted to have a 'me weekend'". I said OK. Then I get a text stating that he needs "space to sort thru his thoughts". I texted him back, saying I respect your space and won't contact you. AND I HAVEN'T.

It's Monday, 4/17 and no contact. I'm hurt, confused and a little betrayed. He said he loves me and that we are great together, then in the next breath, he says that it's getting harder to be with you instead of getting easier. His FB status hasn't changed and neither has mine.

How long do I give him for "his space"? When do I return his keys and his stuff? Should I take this as a cowardly way of a breakup and just end it myself?

Any and all advice is helpful. Sorry for the length. I'm very hurt and confused.

How long do I give him his space and not contact him? A week?

Sati

You leave it forever -needing space,wanting a break is coward speak for'my feelings have changed and I want out'.

You're both coming out of marriages,both have children-you both need to heal from the broken marriages before starting new relationships.

Your best plan is to move forward with your life,without him in it.

Should I do the "laying the cards out" now? I want my stuff and keys back and I assume so does he.

Or give him a week and do it then...

You may as well make a clean break now rather than later since you are in a hurry to move to the next level, but he is not. So what's the point??

Heck, neither of you is divorced yet so what's your hurry?

Actually, he wasn't moving in with me. We both decided that wasn't a good idea. THAT was a mutual decision. So I wasn't rushing that. I still have keys to his apartment and he has keys to mine.

My concern is how long do I give him?

There's no time like the present,so asap.

Good luck.

I want to give him his space. I know I love him and want to work this out.

I am afraid if I go to his house tonight that it will be the clincher and seals it.

Do I think that it will matter? Probably not, but I don't want to anger him by invaiding his "space".

I have not contacted him, and I won't until Wednesday. That should be sufficient enough time to sort his thoughts.

He hasn't asked for his keys or hasn't changed his FB status YET. I just wish if he has made up his mind he'd tell me, even if it's through a text.

I think I'm being fair and reasonable. Am I?

You know the one person you need to be fair and resonable with is you-not somebody who 'needs time to sort out his thoughts'.

People who love,repect and care about each other don't go off on breaks,they sort out whatever problems there are together.

@ amicon, I appreciate all of your comments and advice.

I guess I am very confused and very hurt now. I go through crying boughts to anger. I can't eat and haven't eaten anything since Sat morning. Funny thing, I'm not even hungry AT ALL.

Part of mr wants to call him or go over to his house, part of me doesn't.

Part of me wants to go to his house when he is at work, give him his things and keys and take my things and keys WITHOUT him there. Then change my FB status.

I just don't know what to do, I really thought I would have heard from him by now. This hurts me so bad. I feel hurt, dismissed and even a little betrayed. Am I wrong to feel this way?

(You're welcome.)

Your feelings are normal.

That's why it's best to let your head rule your heart and maintain a dignified silence.

The keys can be returned through the mail,or locks can be changed.

And you must eat something,dry toast,doughnuts-you can't go for days with no food.

He does have an expensive Movado watch that I really do want back.

It's a touchy situation. I want closure but then I am afraid to push to hard as it may just be the last straw.

I think I deserve closure either way. Even if it's through a text. I just don't understand.

He wasn't perfect, but neither was I, but he was perfect for me.

Even now, I love him.

Wish I could eat. It comes up if I do, I am drinking fluids.

Should I give him until Wednesday? Then just go over to his house after he is home?

I can only tell you what I'd do myself in similar situation-I'd cut my losses.

I would go spend some quality time with a good friend if I were you and do things to try and take my mind off things.

It's getting late here,so take care and be good to yourself.

I appreciate all of your advice. I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

I think I will give him until Wednesday and then I will lay my cards on the table. By then I will know, especially if I don't hear from him, I will know.

Sounds like he isn't for you. Don't rush into another relationship.

You haven't got a chance to even think after your divorce.

That's the real lesson here.

We all want love. But certainly not from the wrong person.

Don't waste time crying over him. Hes not worth it.

Never talk to him again.

Come back and tell us.
<cyberhug>

As an update, I texted him, and pretty much had to pull it from him that he needed time for himself and his girls. I said what I felt.

Got the closure I needed. Do I hurt? Omg yes. Have I cried river x7? Yup, Can I ever forgive or forget what he did to me?? Never. It was a cowardly way of breaking up all the while your stringing someone along.

He wasn't perfect and neither was I. I was willing to make us work, he wasn't. I'm sore and I hurt,

I refuse to beg, and I can't ever really trust him. He was a coward, and if I didn't pull it out of him, I'd still never know.

What's done is done, and I know he ain't finding anyone else that will pit with the crap his ex and the drama she did to me.

Life's a b***h sometimes,eh?

I suggest no contact from now on-none,zilch,zero-and make sure you do things to start the healing process.

Maybe somewhere along the road be grateful that he showed his true colours sooner rather than later...

I won't EVER talk to him. EVER.

I feel emotionally used, betrayed and hurt.

His rationale to why he ended via text "he didn't want me to verbally persuade him into doing something he didn't want to do". Seriously, *** is that liad of BS. I can't verbally persuade anyone to anything if they don't want to do it the first place. We aren't 15. Then he said now you knowhile I feel, I'll call you tomorrow night. I said save it, and I won't b there to answer the phone. So effin be it.

His reasoning is BS, because if you love someone as much as he said he loved me, he'd be willing to see if it could work and slam the door and say "I need to focus my time on my work and my girls and whatever is left, me.". Personally, I think "greener grasses" may have persuaded him and that if he saw or talked to me, he would have tried to work something out. Do I think he cheated on me, no, BUT I do feel something (or someone) is pulling him into making a decision for him. So effin be it. I'm done, stick a fork in me done.

It's over. I can't forgive and I know I won't ever forget what he did to me. I feel he is a coward and a

You've got him sussed I think-and the anger you're feeling will help you move on and get over him more quickly.

My opinion:He's an emotional incompetent and you're well rid of him.

You need him like a fish needs a bicycle.

@ amicon I so appreciate your advice. A HUGE ((HUG)) to you.

I know in my heart I did NOTHING to deserve it. And if he loved me as he said he would have wanted to work it out.

He is childish, and a coward. As I lie on my bed, I know I am better off without him.

Contrary to what he thinks, he has just as much baggage as I do.

I know if I didn't pull it out of him, he would have used the "space" card and who the eff knows even try to come back. Especially once he found that it wasn't greener on the other side.

So effin be it.

(Thank you-hugs back)

He was never Prince Charming
,but the real deal's out there somewhere,when you're ready for a true relationship.

Just give yourself time to heal;oh, and maybe get off the bed and go for a walk?

Nature's a great healer.

Once again thanks so much. I hurt. I feel betrayed beyond belief. He broke my heart, NOT my soul.

I agree he is an emotional incompetent and a selfish jerk.

His divorce becomes finalized 5/1 and the more I think about it the more emotionally betrayed I feel. I feel I helped him through a lonely time and now he is comfortable "in his own skin" now there is no place for me.

I feel one used, and two, out of the blue he did this now, I wonder what or (who) pushed him to do this. If he loved me as he said he did he'd work it out, unless something (one) is telling him to loose the baggage (me) and get your space and be you. It also makes sense why he didn't want to speak to me or hear me "verbally persuade him do or say something he doesn't want too". Unless something(one) is drawing him, it wouldn't matter, and we would have worked it out. Last time I checked it's called COMPROMISE. My bad, silly Karen.

Anger is easier to deal with then hurting and crying.

I'm strong. Ill b OK. U and this web site support group are wonderful!

The last 4 days have been rather hectic, I know, but sometimes even the bad that happens is a good thing.

Obviously neither of you is patient enough to deal with relationship glitches just yet. And that's Okay. Just don't get carried away and over read, just move beyond this and understand, both you kids needed each other at one time or another, and now not so much so.

You'll get through this,stay strong,stay healthy-hearts break,but we mend them.

Take good care of yourself.
< >

@ talaniman,
I was will to work it out. I told him he can have his me time and me too. He refused. I tried with all my power to work this out. He was the one who slammed the door and locked me out.

He couldn't even talk to me about this, ge did it via text. THAT HURTS.

Realise that you did what you could;were as decent as you could possibly be-and realise that he wasn't-but that's his problem,not yours.

Accept no responsibility for his actions and don't blame yourself.

@amicon, I wanted to give u a follow-up. Well I texted him that I was going to his apt for my things and to drop off his and his keys. Said it was fine.

Called me at 3 pm, wanted to know when did I want to come over, told him I did already and got what I needed. He sounded hurt. Said thought ud meet me there. I guess THAT was his last card, and the fact that I did it before he asked knocked him for a loop. Oh well.

He called me again at 4. We talked it out. He said that he wanted to focus on him and for him to get happy and find himself and be there for his girls 150%. He said he felt as though he is spead so thin that he is feeling overwhelmed.

He then called me again. I asked him directly and wanted an honest answer, was there anyone else and said I need to know because if I find out in a week you will hurt me so bad that I will never ever talk to u again, and if u valued us, me and our relationship be honest. He said he wants No one.

He called me once more and said that he still loves me and that who knows what will bring in the future, if we r meant to b we will. He then goes, please call me whenever u want to talk. Ur my best friend. He then said that we will talker sooner then later, and I said who knows.

All I can say he doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground. I

I won't even try to understand him any more. Not going to try. Who knows what our future will hold. I know the door isn't slammed or dead bolted shut. It's open and I think when or if he is back in my life, it's because I WANT him there and who knows maybe I Won't. Time I think in his case isn't his friend. More time I'm away, the more I don't want him back in my life.

And I did agree, if we are meant to b, we will be and nothing will stop it from happening. I believe that on my heart.

Thank you again for your listening to me vent. I appreciate your kindness and your advice, it was very comforting and insiteful. ((HUGS))

I will keep you all posted.
~K

Sounds to me that all he wants is booty.

Not a relationship.

His actions speak volumes. His talk is BS.

Hes not for you. You don't want the same things.

Or a man like that.

Don't be one of those women. Makes jerks like him exist.

Apart from the fact that he doesn't know his b**t from his elbow,I think he's feeding you standard BS.

You know what your best move is,don't you?

Never speak to him again and leave this behind you.

You're his best friend?

Ha,his friendship qualities aren't going to win him any awards now,are they??

No contact and heal,please.

At least I don't harbor any anger now. It's over and done. I want him happy. I know the longer I am alone, the more I want to be alone.

He has no effin idea what he wants. He can choke on his "me for me time". I can't handle it anymore.

Now he texted me @1030 with some random BS story. I told him that texting me at this time is invading MY SPACE.

What the?? I quit he won. Not even remote sense is he making. Seriously. It's done and I'm done and it's over.

It is over.

You know what I'd do-I'd block his number-you don't need his texts.

If your network supplier can't block numbers,delete his texts without reading them.

Have you read the No Contact stickies at the top of the relationship page?

Ggrrr. I give him the space and NOW wants contact??

I'm so done, stick a fork in me I am THAT done.

I blocked him on FB? His number and his texts. He can choke on his space.

And you can enjoy your own space-free from his emotional clutter!!

Omg, I thought I blocked him my FB, but I guess I didn't. My status was "I feel sick, migraine and now allergies...argh, shoot me" well 2 of my guy friends left comments and LOW and BEHOLD so did he and wished the I feel better...

Well needless to say he is blocked NOW. Wow, what the!! He is more confused then even I gave him credit for..

Please just ignore him-don't waste time trying to understand his little games.

I think u nailed it. Games to keep open contact and that preverbal foot in the door.

It did make me chuckle. It was pathetic regardless.

So you make sure the door remains firmly shut.

I trust you not to open it again!

I slammed it shut now AND dead bolted it!!

I can say now I'm not crazy. He has no effin idea what he wants. I'm glad it's done. THAT I am not confused on.

I think you've come a long way in just a few days-give yourself a pat on the back!

That FB comment just made it that it's not in my mind and I'm the Coo Coo.

He has no idea what he wants and doesn't want. Now that I got my stuff and he got his, it's reality of HIS decision.

I am glad I found out now. I will say when the table turned, made me feel a bit better.

I am so sour on him, that NOTHING in this world he could do could EVER get me back.

Don't want him, don't want us, don't want his "me/space issues".

He got what he wanted, he now is regretting it, and he knows when IM DONE IM DONE.

It did make me laugh when I saw the comment.

On the up side,you've learnt a valuable lesson-what you don't want from a relationship.

Most often that takes a couple of trips down the yellow brick road without finding the Wizard...

I guess this is the email I had to write. I keep going on the fence about sending though. Part of me does and part of me doesn't. I guess I wanted it out that it wasn't just a one way street of him dealing with my baggage. It went both ways.
What do you think I should do?
See next post. Sorry about the length.

Here goes.





Bob,
Time had got me to accept what I never thought would be acceptable. I wasn't going to ever contact you again, and I really never wanted to write this, but since what I have read; I HAVE TO FOR ME. You seem happy. Glad that disposing of me gave you happiness, because, it's obvious I am the source of all your stress and unhappiness. But I have stuff that I need off my chest. 

I will be brutally honest. Yes, your right I have baggage.  You knew my baggage from the start, I never hid anything from you. Ever. You told me that you didn't care, and accepted it, because you loved me. What a load of BS. You have baggage too. Just a little advice, you better CHECK your ex wife now because most other women would have dumped you a long time ago for what she had done to me and Madison 5x over. I didn't because she IS your baggage. I didn't dump you when SHE did what she did to a 8 year old and you watched and did nothing. I got the story from Madison, she told me you saw and heard and did nothing. I called you on it. You said you confronted her, but I know you didn't. I didn't leave you. I accepted it as something you can't control. When I heard that 7 and 5 year old say they don't understand why mommy doesn't like Madison. I sat back and watched you say nothing to her or your children. I had to, cause I saw Madison on the brink of tears. I DID, told them she disliked me and that's her prerogative. You didn't say anything. I accepted that, didn't leave you and dealt with it, cause I loved you. I also accepted that I could NEVER leave Madison with you on a Sunday when you were returning your girls because she couldn't promise to control her mouth, her emotions or anger if you brought "THAT" on her property. Who  did she think she was referring to Madison as a that? I sat back and watched you do or say nothing. But I didn't leave you, I compromised.  I accepted it as something I had to deal with because you couldn't control what she did or said and I LOVE YOU and she is a part of you. So yes, dear, you have a lot of baggage too. O and a heads up, the whole I brought a $1 home GETS old quick.  Gets old when we can never go on dates because many times, you were short on $$ and I got tired of paying for it. That dear most women will RUN from. I didn't, I loved you. I accepted it. I didn't leave you. When you went to Vegas, I gave you money because you were broke AGAIN. I gave, because I loved you. That was baggage was you, and I accepted it. I paid for Noels party and all her gifts, cause I knew you were short. I gave because I loved you. So I also compromised a lot too. I dealt with things that I didn't want too, but because I loved you, I did and didn't care. Was that stressful for me?? Yes, but I didn't run. Wasn't selfish. I didn't bail on you when it got tough, I dealt with it and accepted it.

For someone who claimed to love me so much, funny how you want ABSOLUTELY want nothing to do with me or EVEN the possibly of us. Fine, so be it. But, as a result that makes me question EVERYTHING that I held true about u, about us in my heart. I question everything about it. I heard and read how YOU feel, now I want to tell YOU how I feel. You said that you are tired of being pulled too thin, being pulled in all directions, not being able to say no, and not being able to control what's not controllable. You pretty much blamed me. You want to know how I feel? I feel that it's a cop out and your being a selfish coward. You just want your freedom. Not to have to answer to a relationship. Who knows, maybe you want to or are seeing someone else. Just don't lie. Don't lie to me or yourself. At least gimme that respect of the truth. You feel used, well so DO I. I feel that I got you through the loneliness portion of your separation, and now that your OK by yourself, I was the variable that could be removed and I was the one thing holding you from being the new you. I was the variable that can be disposed of like garbage. Yes, I feel like garbage. 

You need your space? Really? I never held a gun to your head, and I always told you TOO go out with your friends. I wanted to have a Superbowl party. You didn't. So don't gimme that load of crap that I was smothering you and you need your space and me time. I told you to go and play cards or go to the casino, YOU didn't want too. AND YOU KNOW THAT! I never forced you to be with me EVER. 

I feel that I was and have always been disposable. YES, that is how I feel. You love me so much, and yet you can't even see me now face to face?? You claimed that you love me, you wanted us, a future. But when it gets bumpy for the first time you BAIL out and you won't even TRY to make it work. Why?? CAUSE I question that you EVER really loved me and that you ever really wanted us. I question everything and anything about us, period. 

O I have seen your recent posts on FB and I can say I'm shocked. I really didn't know how important drinking and partying is to you. Funnels? 420? It's all in fun, maybe. When did you become 25? Those comments are real mature, especially from a 37 year old man. But I've never seen such a common thread in you lately. So be it. You know how I felt about that, I never hid it and sounds as though you want that more than you want us. If it was so important to you why get involved with me in the first place. You knew my history. You knew it when you got involved with me.

The thing I think that hurts the most, is what you are doing to Madison. THAT is the hardest blow to buffer. When she asks mommy, why did Bob go away? Why does he not love you anymore? Why does he not love me anymore? Why does he not want to see us anymore? What do I say? That we are too much stress for you? That your bailing out to be a selfish coward, or that you need your space to focus on you, your work and your girls and we that we don't fit into your life anymore? Riddle me that Batman.

So if you loved us as much as you said you did, we would be trying to make it work now for everyone involved. I would have done anything to make us work. Knowing that, and the fact that your not even remotely considering it, validates my feelings. 

Thanks for making me question everything that I held true. EVERYTHING. I appreciate that emensely. Thank you for hurting US. We appreciate it. I'm glad you can look at yourself in the mirror and that your happy now. I know I couldn't and I know I couldn't ever be happy with myself if I did such a cowardly and selfish act.

This is the kind of letter you write for yourself-then dispose of.

I hope you didn't send it...

No I didn't send it. I needed to vent and to validate myself. It had me realize that it wasn't me and my baggage. He had major baggage too. So whatever. Blocked his #, deleted everything.

At least the hurt is less and the anger is setting in. Sad that I can function and deal with anger much easier than hurt.

Writing that email, letting some of the anger and confusion out, made me realize that maybe I shouldn't have dealt with what I did even if I did love him.

@amicon, thank you for helping me get through this confusing and chaotic time. I appreciate your advice immensely. You're a God send. Again thank you ((super hug))!

Anger,I've found is easier to deal with than the hurt.

Hurt can be paralyzing,but once the anger kicks in we're able to be in charge of our own lives again.

As in he did 'X' and that's so not on in my book!

And then the anger fades,and after some time you ask yourself what all the fuss was about!

I'm happy that I've been able to help< >and I wish you a calm Easter.

Well it's week #4, and after 3 weeks of him playing head games, we had a "blow out" and have had absolutely NO contact with him. Nothing.

I won't lie, many nights I lay alone in my dark bedroom crying my eyes out. Soul wrenching sobbing. Many times I wanted to call him. My heart many times has tried to convince me to call. Tell him I still love him and want to make it work. But, now my head kicks in and won't let me. Have gone so far as to dial his number, but the head won't let me press send.

Am I still a mess, yup. Do I cry every night, yup. Will I ever contact him, nope. THAT is an improvement, small maybe, but a sign of healing none the less.

Do I think and feel in my gut 6 months that he will call me "to see how I am", yup. What I will do with that call them, who knows. I betting on my head at that point. For me to say that, THAT is also an improvement.

Just an update, as per himself, he is having a midlife and when he doesn't have his daughters wants to act like the last time he was single (22, he us 37) and doesn't want the responsibilities of a relationship of any kind. After 3 weeks of being broken up told me that he wants No one for a year EXCEPT his girls and a relationship with himself. O, and the ability to go out drinking every night if HE wants too...

I guess 40 IS indeed the new 50, midlife at 38, who would have thought.

Yes, I'm glad I found out about this side of him NOW, before our relationship progressed to the next level. Yes, that too is an improvement.

Am I mad at him? No. Wish I could be. Have I accepted that I will never get a black and white answer? Yes. Am I hurt and confused? Yes I am. Will I be OK after this? YES I WILL.

A big super huge hug goes out to amicon!! Thank you so very much!! You helped me mire then you could ever know!! ((HUGS))

You're doing fine;it's a process and it takes time.

Going with your head's always the sensible thing-and I think your selfrespect will keep you on the straight and narrow.

Of course you'll be OK,and better than ok-happy!

Returning the hug!!

I have started counseling and we will see if it helps.

I still cry at night. I'm good during the day, and especially around my daughter.

I know it will take time and time does heal all wounds. It is getting better. I have my good and bad days. But at least the bad days are now only happening at night. THAT is an improvement.

I will have guard up and I will pity the next guy who wants to date me. Everyone builds walls, but my wall makes the great wall of china look like it's made of Legos.

If the USA had my defense mechanisms, we would never have crime.

:)

I think the counseling will help with 'the walls'-plus the fact that not a l l men are jerks... :-)

Just when I think IT'S finally drama free, I get a Happy Mothers Day text. I kept it short, then next I know he is pulling the space card and the I need alone time.
I told him to watch who he talks too cause it's going out of his mouth and right into my exes ear. Told him drama will Im sure will happen if he doesn't. He thanked me and then said he doesn't trust anyone and everyone has an agenda. So *** ever.
Ok, YOU texted ME. Not the other way around. Seriously, I can come to the conclusion, that it isn't ME. He is really screwed up.

Block him then.

Stop playing his game. Simple, don't respond. Disappear.

Stick with NC. Its tough, yes, but vital if you want this BS to end.

Hes lame.

Start a new life.

That's the next thing I did. I have accepted that I can't understand something HE can't understand.

I know now it's not ME like I have thought. It's HIM. He is beyond confused.

I'm done, so done in fact, stick a fork in me and I'll fall apart, DONE!!

I am healing and it's getting better everyday. It's slow, but I know I will be OK! Finally, I can say it AND believe it!!

He is a WACK

Now you're talking!

Stick with it. This will all be a history lesson. There's no reason beating a dead horse.

Now, do for you, for a change. Take your time.

You deserve it.

I know. I believe it finally.

I big ((hug)) to u vanheart!

Right back at you...

Let us know how well you are doing. K?

I most definitely will.

I think I have my Days of Karen Life followers. They need to know what happens next :)

One thing I got from this is that I'm not the CRAZY one. He is the one with issues. His issues BROKE us up, NOT ME or my issues.

:)

One thing to realize about this forum is that everyone benefits. Posters & advisers alike...

I came here a heartbroken basket case and needed the critical advice that my friends & family couldn't offer.

Im still here, learning every time.

Yup.