Skell and talaniman helped me out quite a bit a few months back. I was in a rough spot, and needed some unbiased help, and I got it here. So, that's why I come back for some more. This is kind of long, sorry... I just like writing a lot :) If you read through it all, thanks a ton.

Here are the original threads: First one
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/relationships/she-wants-break-37298.html?highlight=handoferebus

Second one:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/relationships/friends-nothing-40524.html?highlight=handoferebus

I took the advice and cut it off with her. We didn't talk for about a month and a week, maybe a bit more. I didn't so much cut it off as I just started ignoring her calls and what not, and said, as politely as I could, to "F off." Well, like I said, a month and some time goes by, and we saw each other in town. I went on doing what I was doing, but she called me. I picked it up, and ended up talking for about half an hour. I told her that she used me, went right back to her ex, etc. She couldn't stress enough that they never got back together. She admitted that she hooked up once when they took their trip, but she swore that there was no dating, or relationship. Also, according to her, he came to her thinking that the whole time they would get back into a relationship, and because she didn't want to, he basically told her to screw off. She was able to fill in all of the questions I had immediately, and I really felt that she was telling me the truth.

Well, after that we started talking a bit more, hanging out from time to time. We're at a point now that we talk a couple times a day, and hang out a few times a week. I stayed at her house with some other close friends this weekend. Nothing happened between us physically, and I didn't expect it to.

When we first started going out, the feelings I had for her was lust, and infatuation. Even afterwards, I know it was. Parts of me felt love for her, but nothing deep. I got over that, because I realized it. Now, we've been doing a lot of stuff together, strictly platonic. I've gotten to know her more on a different level, one higher than just physical and infatuation. This is where my problem lies. I've thought about this for the last few weeks, and I can't avoid the fact that I really feel like I've fallen/am falling in love with her. This isn't infatuation. It's not physical. We're not dating, or in a relationship. Nothing of that sort is biasing my feelings. That's why I think I'm not lying to myself when I say that I'm falling in love with her.

We've talked for hours about things between us, and her ex's, etc. She's been "seeing" one of her other ex's, who she's known for like 5 years. He lives 2 hours away, also. She admitted they're physical, and that she loves him and really cares for him, but she doesn't want a relationship with him. She's told that to him, but he has a hard time accepting that. She even said she feels like she's hurting him emotionally by having sex with him, but not being in a relationship with him.

She shows a lot of affection for me, and I know she has so much fun when we do things together (she recalls stuff between us all the damn time in conversation). She swears she wants to be single right now, and that's she's content with how things are in her life for the time being. But, I want desperately to tell her how I feel. I know, however, that she's not going to instantly feel it back for me (unless she does, and I don't know it). I know that if she doesn't, I can't change that. So here in-lies my question. I want her to be happy. I don't want to burden anything on her, or pressure her into anything she doesn't want. Should I tell her how I feel, and tell her that if it's not something she feels back that I should walk away from it? I know the default answer is "go to the gym, work hard, concentrate on school, and you'll forget about her." But think about it some. If she's happy without me, or with someone else, then I'll do it for her. That's hard for me to say, because I typically lookout for myself before others, and focus on my goals. But this feeling is enough to drive me up a wall. Should I wait a while, continue hanging out with her, getting to know her more, and see how I feel a couple months down the line? Should I tell her now? Should I talk to her best friend Ashlee about it(who's one of my good friends, too)? She knows her best, maybe she could tell me if I would be throwing away something that I should stick it out for.

Ok, I wrote a lot, if anyone reads all of this, thanks a lot. -John

John John John,
Dear me!

I think you have made a very very unwise move letting this girl back into your life. Look what it has done to you. You have gone and developed feelings all over again for a girl who is quite simply using you. Again!!

Don't you see it? I told you this would happen. The moment things didn't quite go according to plan with the ex, she comes running back to you. And you let her. And you believe her lies that she tells you that she never had a relationship with her ex again. Well what was it? Just screwing each other. Was she his booty call, or was he her booty call?

You believe her BS because you are spellbound and infatuated with her. You believe all her lies. Mainly because you want to. You want what she is saying to be true. And when you find out that it is all BS all over again you are going to regret letting this girl back into your life in my honest opinion. I hope I'm wrong. I really do, but I'm only going to give you my honest opinion here and nothing else.

And to make matters worse, not only did she come running back to you the moment things didn't work with the ex, she went running back to another ex of hers. Im sending this thread to "Young and the Restless". So, she has you in toe, plus another ex that she is in love with but doesn't want a relationship, but is willing to screw him. Hahahahaha

Sorry if people are offended by this, but I think this girl is almost what you would call a slut!!

What is most astonishing though is that you John are willing to let her do this to you. After everything you said in your other threads how you realise she was using you. You were her rebound etc. You said you wouldn't cop it again. Well here we are. And your copping it again.

Heard the saying "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"?

And not only that, you want to go and profess you love to her! Or to her best friend (not a good idea).

She doesn't love you, heck it is highly doubtful that she even has much respect for you in my opinion. The way she treated you before and the way she will treat you again isn't respect.

The feeling is driving you up the wall because your letting it! You let her in, you are believing her BS, YOU are responsible for your own actions! And I fear your actions of late are going to wind up getting you hurt all over again!

I hope not but I hope you think about this carefully and be honest to yourself! Don't put others first for once!

Good luck!

What's unfortunate is I typically don't put others first. Out of my relationships, she's the only one that I have. There's still that feeling that she used me as a rebound, and I'm not denying that. I'm also not denying that everything was just infatuation. The thing that gets to me is that since we've been spending time together, it hasn't been difficult. We spend time together and there hasn't been any pressure of anything. In all honesty I've enjoyed spending real time with her, as opposed to relationship time. We do things just as though we've been friends for years. Even hearing what she's doing with her other ex hasn't bothered me. We act completely natural around one another, and that's part of what's such a draw towards her. I haven't forgiven her for anything she did, and she knows I'm not happy with any of it.

There's two things I think about. When I'm around her, relationships or feeling or anything like that just aren't there, because it's just a fun time. When I'm not around her, though, I think of what my draw to her is.

"The feeling is driving you up the wall because your letting it! You let her in, you are believing her BS, YOU are responsible for your own actions! And i fear your actions of late are going to wind up getting you hurt all over again!"

If I were to tell her how I feel, and I find out that's not in the cards for us, I wouldn't be hurt by it. The thing that's driving me up the wall is whether I should tell her. I'm already OK with either outcome (I've speculated scenerios both ways, and I'm fine with each, just one outcome is better than the other). Like I said, we're not dating, we're not in a physical relationship, we're not doing anything for one another really. We spend time together, and neither of us have gone out of the way for anything for one another... no more than any decent friend would do for another. She may have used me before, but she's not now. Sure, she may have freaked out after her ex Dustin went away, but I haven't done anything out of my way to make it better for her.

FYI, I've been dating since we broke up. Nothing serious with anyone right now, but just letting you know that I'm not sitting here day in and day out thinking about her.

So what happens when you tell her your feeling towards her and she tells you that she also has these feelings for you and you give the relationship another go, only for her in another month or so time to once again realise that she "didnt give herself enough time after breaking up with her ex to be single" (remember they were her words and her excuse for breaking up with you the first time)?

What happens when she plays you again and goes running back to one of her many ex's because they come a calling?

Where does that ;eave you again?

You might say you are comfortable with her answer either way! That may well be! You might have prepared yourself for getting a NO answer.

What I question is that you haven't prepared yourself for the YES answer. Because ultimately in the long run the YES answer will be the one that does far more damage to you then the NO answer.

Get my point?

Can I also ask that if the time you spend with her is so good now because you aren't in a relationship, then why do you want to turn it into a relationship. If you are so infatuated by this girl why not just let it go how it is, if it is so good, and see what happens. If she is finding it as good as you are then I dare say eventually she may have the same thoughts you do.

Right now she sure doesn't have those thoughts though. She is just playing a whole heap of guys for fools and sadly your one of them!

The time you spend together hasn't been difficult because she doesn't want it to be difficult. She needs you right now and is using you again. She wants you around because you make her feel good (rebound AGAIN). She isn't going to jeopardise that by making things difficult. Things will become difficult again when she finds a new toy and doesn't need you anymore. That's when you'll be thrown under the bed again and be forgotten!

But if your happy to play that role then that's your choice and as I say I really hope it doesn't end the way I foresee it, but it is hard to see it going any other way!

You make good points. The thing is, you point out exactly what I'm asking.

"If you are so infatuated by this girl why not just let it go how it is, if it is so good, and see what happens. If she is finding it as good as you are then i dare say eventually she may have the same thoughts you do."

I've thought about that a lot. That's why I wonder if I should say anything now, knowing that I really want to. Or if I should wait and see. Like I said, I'm not going out of my way for anything with her right now. I stick to my schedule, and we do things on open time.

But I think what I should do is a little bit more clear after you said this:

"the time you spend together hasnt been difficult because she doesnt want it to be difficult. She needs you right now and is using you again. She wants you around because you make her feel good (rebound AGAIN). She isnt going to jeopardise that by making things difficult. Things will become difficult again when she finds a new toy and doesnt need you anymore. Thats when youll be thrown under the bed again and be forgotten!"

If I don't say anything to her now, and continue with the low key things we do, and this exact thing happens (a guy comes along, she sweeps me under the bed again) then I'll know that it was a sham. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Having an optional predictable outcome pre-tense helps me to realize what may come, and I think if that does happen, I wouldn't feel too distraught about it. At that point, I would know that everything really was a bunch of BS.

I don't want to just throw everything away again, that would be kind of lame. But I think I should just keep what I've been feeling locked away for a bit, and see which outcome comes true. I see things either truthfully improving between us, as they have been. Or I see her playing me for a fool, which thanks to you pointing out, I would know to look for and be prepared for. Do you think it's worth it? Being patient to see if how I feel is worth it in the end?

Throw what away again?

What do you guys have?

Am I missing something here?

What you guys have is completely one sided 'friendship' (and I use the term loosely) where she gets everything she wants, and your happy to play the little puppy dog who barks on command!

I don't think you do know how to look for her playing you for a fool. If you did then you would have seen it long before now. Because to put it simply, she is right now, and has all along been not only playing you for a fool, but her others ex's she's seeing, sleeping with, loving or whatever the heck she has with them.

What do you think she says to them? What do you think her conversation with them entail?

Can you please do me a favour John? Go back and read your other two threads from start to finish! Read them and refresh your memory of what has happened in the past.

See if you see some recurring themes here?

Honestly ask yourself if you can see a different outcome this time around?

This is what's so difficult. A large part of me is slowly falling for her really hard. But there's a part of me that knows what's happened in the past; that knows what you're telling me.

The feeling are next to impossible to ignore. It's also hard to ignore when her MOM calls me from time to time to remind me that her and her mom have talked about me, and that she cares about me, and is uncertain about things. It's also hard to ignore her best friends telling me to stick with her (guys and girl, who I'm also friends with).

I haven't forgiven what she did, and I won't. I'm also not a person to live my life giving a person one single chance. Is that a bad thing? I may not see her as playing me for a fool right now, like you said. But if what you predict does happen, then I will know she was, and THAT'S something I can be prepared for. And I ask, is it worth being patient? Sticking with what I feel, and what her parents, and her friends tell me. Or is that foolish, and just telling her how I feel (which I'm 90% sure she doesn't feel back for me right now), and letting it be.

You make it sound as though I'm on a leash with her right now. I can't stress enough that I'm doing things with her on my own schedule. I'm often busy with school or work, or other friends, when she wants to do something, and I offer a time when I don't have other plans.

What is your ultimate opinion on what you think I should do? I know you think I'm being foolish, but what exactly would you do? Tell her she's a slut and is messing with too many people's emotions and that she should re-evaluate her life and how she treats people?

I'm going to play the devil's advocate here.

There's a line in Kill Bill 2 which goes, "There are worse things in life than being made a fool over a woman."

What's the worst that could happen? A little heartbreak perhaps? You've been there before. You know it comes and goes like anything else. Maybe taking a chance would be worth the gains. Even if she does end up leaving you, in the end, you'll always have your memories. No one can take those away from you - not even her.

Confront her. Be honest, but don't be weird about it. Do it in a neutral setting, like a park or something.

That said, you may want to consider how much of this 'connection' that you claim to have with this girl isn't a simple physical attraction. Don't forget how young you are - hormones can be VERY tricky.

Your hearing what you want to hear and not seeing what you need to see.

What I mean is your latching on to the positive, whether that be what her mum and friends say, or what you think might happen, but your not seeing what she is doing with respect to the other guys that she is keeping in her life. That's what concerns me. The other men she continues to hold on to and something it seems you fail to see.

Having said that, if it feels right for you to give her another go and be patient and see what happens and follow your feelings then please do so. I would urge you to, because id hate you to listen to me (who probably doenst know anything) and have regrets.

So the decision is your. And I hope I have sounded as though I'm trying to sway your decision. I am just offering some thoughts on what I see, and what I think you may not be considering!

But we must all make our own decisions in life and live and die by them. Please make the decisions that you think is best, and don't second guess yourself.

Because whatever happens it will be for the best. Positive or negative.

Sorry Skell, I don't want to make you feel like your opinion is taken lightly. I really am taking in everything you've offered. Emotions are just hard to counter, and I'm sure you know that. Ultimately it is my decision, yeah, but outside opinions matter a lot to me. That's precisely why I come to this forum from time to time. I've taken most of the advice, but some of it I've left to my own decision. And trust me, all of it is appreciated. I think what I may do is be patient with things, continue dating other people as I am, and see if this feeling sticks. It's a risk I know. The only way to get ahead is to take risks, though, isn't it? 90% of small businesses in America shutdown within the first 2 years, yet people still try and try. That small chance of something great is enough incentive.

You've helped me to see what could potentially, or IS potentially happening though. And it's something that I'll have my eyes wide open for, and I appreciate that, because I had hardly considered it.

But, I'll continue to think about it for the next couple of days, whether that's a good decision on my part. My outlook on this might be dramatically different 24 hours from now for whatever reason. I don't want to jump to any conclussions yet.

I like your thinking.

Take things slowly and don't rush into anything. The same way that emotions are hard to counter, it is also silly to act on them sometimes without first thinking!

Lets see, after a month you fell Head over Heels for this female, and got so deep in 30 days you were devastated when she bounced back to her ex that she had just left. A month later she is all better now and you have started to hang with her again and even though there is no sex this time, we are right back where we started before, Head Over Heels. So lets see what else we have as if that's not enough, she is banging some ex-ex but has no relationship(?) with him. You talk for hours about her exes, and hangout over night (NO SEX) and least we forget YOUR falling in deeper than before(with SEX). That makes you friends. No problem. Oh Wait we forgot... your head over heels, and no sex, but friends. So your question after a few months should you tell her how you feel? Or talk to her friend to run interference, to see how SHE feels? Stop me at anytime if I have misread anything. Oh, I have read your words about your feelings and have removed them from consideration just because I don't believe them at all and they don't matter. Let me explain, while I have no doubt your feelings are strong now for this female, they were as strong before (with SEX) when you where devastated. I submit that you have never gotten over those feelings and have only picked up where you left off(but with no sex). The fact that you could even consider hanging out with some one who has a steady stream of exes she actively bangs and tells you there is no relationship is a clear sign that she can have you when and how she wants you and whom ever else she wants, because you and her have no relationship and are friends. But the rub in all this is you want more, much more and please believe this, she knows that. And that is the bad part. You cannot be friends while having unresolved feelings with an ex. As Skell put it what could she be talking about with her exes she is banging, and you talk to her about everything and still want more and are friends.
What I see is you are still having the same feeling from before and you have never gotten over them and you are treading on the same course as before and no amount of justifying it will ever change the fact that you have so quickly reinvested a lot of feelngs into someone who knows how you feel about them, and continues to feed you even more gobble degoop as before. She is still having her cake and eating it too, and until you break this pattern and see things in a healthy realistic light, then you are enabling her to continue to do what she did before and is still doing now. This is not healthy, and if you get weak and let the words come from your mouth about the way you really feel she will dump you again and keep this pattern alive and well while you have to start all over, until she gets enough banging and is ready for your friendship again. The simple way to prove what is true and what is BS is to ease away and disappear from her life and be unavailable for hanging out and ,or those long friendly talks. If you can get to a healthy point to see things as they are, from my viewpoint anyway, and make your decisions of the heart from with a clear mind, I think you would agree that you are in some helluva circle. I further submit to you that you are just so glad to have her back, and she is keeping hope alive, that you'll accept all she puts you through now. Don't answer, she has already done that and without the sex. She has what she wants and you have hope, Does that sound fair? This relationship is too heavily unbalanced in her favor, Sorry just trying to be honest, and call them as I see Em. I might be dead wrong and wrote a whole bunch of stuff for nothing, but go slow from here and take your own sweet time and think about what you really want and what you really have. GOOD LUCK again.

RUN!!

Please - WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING??

I agree with Skell 1000% - SLUT!! Even tells you she's banging him. Nice chick! Nope.

She is playing you like a fiddle - BEACAUSE NEEDS THE FREAKKING ATTENTION!!

Dated a gal like this once... r... found out she dated - seriously like well 150 guys in 5 years. Threw guys away after a month or two once she used them. Messed up chick. Divorced.

This gal sounds like a massive flake, user, YOU CAN NEVER EVER TRUST HER - CHEATING IS PERFECTLY FINE FOR HER.

She's what we call a taker.

RUN!!

There is ZERO reason to have anything ever to do with this Psyco - YES - Psyco - she can't have a HEALTHY, normal relationship... RUN FOREST RUN!!

BTW - with a women like this you will never be intimate again - FRIEND ZONE!! She knows she ca ngo bang any guy and she doesn't care what people think!! Slut.

Ouch. Some harsh posts, heh. I can definitely see opinions fairly clear. It's still difficult to accept, but I know what you're saying. I'll think about everything you guys have said some more. Right now, I'm not seeing the problem in doing fun things with her on my own schedule, but they ARE invoking feelings that I should be avoiding with her. I forget who's sig it was, but I read it not long ago. It went something like "never regret something that makes you smile." When I go out with her, it's fun, and it's not something I regret. What I may regret is it turning into something more that I desire. The feelings are still very very strong, but that's part of why I think I should just keep things on the down low, have my fun with her, and see if I come to a realization that my feelings aren't true. Maybe, like you said, these feelings are the same that I had before, in which case I think I will understand and recognize after some time. If that's the case, it won't be so hard to turn my back on her again. Is that unreasonable? Thanks for all the input.

In the grand scheme of things, if we can deal with our feelings and make friends and be happy that's what most of us really want. This female maybe a great FRIEND to you as long as you know that, and keep the boundaries. I just wanted you to see that you dealing in a realistic way with your feelings is what can make or break this. I have a lot of female friends, and the key is to enjoy each other as people and keep the boundaries clear. That is all I want to impress upon you. If you stop trying for the relationship and go for the friendship, you may have a good one, and that my friend means you can see a good thing with another female, who wants what you want. Now that's win-win.

Hey - we're not being harsh - I really do think you need a dose of massive reality. You will never have this women. She has sailors in every port it seems.

You need to leave this women alone and chaulk it up to experience - fun times.

Move on. Do yourseld a favor - move on today. Find a GOOD GIRL.

You're just going to torture yourself.