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View Full Version : What happens in court at a fraud under 5000 case ontario?


brown84
Feb 13, 2011, 12:13 PM
I have a court date in less than a month for fraud under $5000. Which I am guilty of.
I am just wondering what to expect in court on the day. Is it like a trial, will I have to testify or will they ask for witness or other people to testify? Even if I've already admitted that I am guilty and I have already paid back what I took plus restitution.

JudyKayTee
Feb 13, 2011, 02:10 PM
Depends on where you are, your past record, what the fraud actually was, your age.

Are you represented by an Attorney?

brown84
Feb 13, 2011, 02:41 PM
I was really hoping you were going to answer my question! I've been reading all of your other answer and your so knowledgeable!
I am in Ontario, it is my first offense. But I feel like it's a pretty bad one, I issued myself multiple giftcards on different occasions and spent them on myself. The grand total is under $1000 but I'm not sure of the exact amount.
I can't even begin to say how much I regret my foolish decision. I can't sleep at night thinking about what might happen!
I am currently looking for a lawyer I can afford. Since I am currently out of work, and wasn't making much money before anywyas.

JudyKayTee
Feb 13, 2011, 03:39 PM
Thanks for the compliment - I appreicate it. Here is something I wrote about the Canadian diversion program which DOES exist in Ontario:

“Ontario diversion program guidelines vary from region to region, courthouse to Courthouse. Eligibility for such a program is ALWAYS determined by the Crown Attorney’s office. There are no exceptions. You are not required to have legal counsel in order to apply.

If the offense - theft - is not major (property was recovered, not a large amount, not a repeat offender) the Crown Attorney MAY approve eligibility into the diversion program prior to the Court appearance. If there are prior dealings with the Police - and charges do not have to be placed, any prior dealings of a negative nature - the person will most likely not be eligible for the diversion program.

As part of the diversion program the eligible person will have to agree to complete certain tasks or obligations - perhaps watch a video, make a donation or volunteer time to a not-for-profit, write a paper on the crime.

When the tasks/obligations have been competed to the satisfaction of the Crown’s Attorney he/she will recommend to the Judge that the criminal charge (usually, theft) be withdrawn.

Each courthouse in Ontario has a different diversion program and eligibility requirements differ from region to region. Eligibility for the diversion program is always determined by the Crown Attorney's office. If they deem a theft offence to be of a minor nature (usually a small quantity of merchandise was taken and the property was recovered), the Crown may pre-approve eligibility into the diversion program. A person will not generally be eligible for diversion if they have had prior dealings with the police (even if it did not result in a criminal charge being laid). Once in the diversion program, the eligible candidate may be asked to complete one of a number of different tasks. In some jurisdictions, a person charged with theft may be required to watch a video on shoplifting. In other jurisdictions they may be required to make a donation to charity or complete a minimum number of community service hours - or both. Regardless of the requirements, the end result is usually the same. Once the diversion program has been completed to the satisfaction of the Crown Attorney, the Crown will recommend to the court that the criminal charge of theft be withdrawn against the accused person. This will result in the accused person maintaining a clean record (assuming they didn't have a prior criminal record).

If a person is not pre-screened as eligible for the diversion program, a lawyer may be able to convince a Crown Attorney to reconsider their decision.”

I am "guessing" this is to be your first appearance. When you go to Court you would speak to the Crown Attorney about the diversion program. In some cases diversion has been refused if it is employee theft. I am not sure if this is your case or not BUT for a first-time offender who has paid back the money, is sincerely and truly sorry, the Crown Attorney is very likely to make a recommendation that you be covered by diversion.

You will, of course, have to serve community service but if you are accepted you will walk out of the experience without a criminal record.

If you are accepted into the program there is no trial - you admit (which you've already done) the crime and then the Judge speaks to you, lectures you, gives you whatever community service is involved and you come back after a period and report that you have done the community service and it's all over.

I realize the Court wants to make a lasting impression on you but it sounds like the experience has already left its mark, you are contrite, and that's what the Court needs to hear.

Does that cover it?

(It's OK to sleep at night. They are NOT going to put you in jail. You've already admitted you took the cards so there will be no trial.)

brown84
Feb 15, 2011, 03:16 PM
That covered it but I have a few more questions if you could spare some more time to answer!

Since it was multiple gift cards that I issued, will each one be a separate charge? Or because it was all to the same company will it be considered one charge of fraud under 5000?

Also because I am not sure of the exact amount and now Im quesitoning myself, what are the dollar amounts in ontario that would separte my crime from a misdemeonor or a felony?

If it is considered a felony does that mean that I won't be able to fight for absolutely discharge or a conditional discharge and end up with a record?

Im still trying to find a lawyer, and having some answers until I hire one really helps keep my mind at ease.

mzfocus
Apr 21, 2011, 11:44 AM
I am going through the same situation right now and would just like to say Thank you for answering this question the way you did. The information you provided was more helpful than the advice that legal aid gave me.

mzfocus
Apr 21, 2011, 11:51 AM
Hey, I was just wondering how everything turned out when you went to court. I will be going to court next week for theft under and just don't know what to expect. Just like you, I paid the company that I had taken merchandise from but am worried about this theft thing being held over my head for the rest of my life as I do plan to have a career. If there is anything that you can suggest to me, I would really appreciate hearing it. Thanks