On November 9th, 2010, my daughter borrowed my Xterra so that she and my son-in-law could take some firewood to his mother around the block. It was near dusk, half light, when she pulled out of our driveway onto the highway, right in front of a truck with no headlights on. They were broadsided, the truck ended up across the highway in the neighbor's yard,the Xterra in the southbound lane facing south, and both my daughter and son-in-law injured inside, struggling to release themselves from seatbelts and get my daughter's legs out from the tight squeeze between the crushed driver door and the center console. As they were trying to extricate themselves, the county transportation bus approached. There were people flagging and yelling for the bus to stop, and it slowed down, but as it approached our driveway it sped up and then rear-ended the Xterra, knocking it another 30ft down and off the highway and pinning a passerby underneath the front wheels of the bus.

I heard the first collision and ran to the highway (my home is 800ft off the highway). I could clearly see from my yard that my Xterra was hit and disabled. It took me over a minute to get to the scene, and from 50ft away, witnessed my children struggling in the Xterra when the bus hit it. Horrified, I ran to the Xterra, and I and another woman helped my son-in-law out of the passenger door and to the ground off the highway, and I went in after my daughter. I was freaked--she was hurt so badly, and I was afraid another vehicle might plow through us on the side of the road, so I somehow managed to get her in the house and on the couch. The other woman stayed with my son-in-law while we waited for EMT and ambulance. Daughter was airlifted out. Son-in-law by ambulance.

Daughter's injuries sustained in the truck broadsiding them was broken ribs on her left side and a punctured lung. My son in law just shook up. Injuries sustained from the bus rear-ending them: daughter sustained crushed ribs on her left side that separated from her sternum and are now jutting up from her chest, fractured shoulder, fractured collarbone, and concussion. Son-in-law sustained fractured vertebrae in his back and neck, and a concussion that has affected his sight.

One would think that my insurance company or the insurance company of the bus would cover these injuries and expenses, but the police report has a witness testimony from a man who said that he and his passenger removed them from the Xterra BEFORE the bus hit them, so they say we have no case. I amended the police report to include my witness testimony, but I can't find an attorney to take the case. I spoke to both of the witnesses that were purported to have taken them out of the vehicle before the accident, and they deny that is what happened. However, my insurance company says that they also talked to the man and that he told them that they HAD taken my daughter and son-in-law out of the Xterra BEFORE the bus hit.

We need legal help in the worst way, and being disabled, and now none of us able to work, cannot afford to hire council to handle this for us. What can we do? Where do we go? How do we get fair treatment and representation? No one is helping us. No one wants to...

Sorry, but as YOU explained it... your daughter is clearly at fault and is guilty of a failure to yield resulting in an accident. With the truck... now the Bus, that's a separate issue. And the actual chain of events and timeline would be critical. And that one might be open to debate as there will likely be disagreements as to what happened. However, even with poor visibility at the location if that was the case... the comment of the bus driver flooring it to ram the vehicle that caused the accident seems particularly odd and out of place given the circumstances you just described. In that particular situation time would seem to go into slow motion and appear to have a far longer time pass than actually did. (yes I have experienced such things).

The people on the Highway ALWAYS have the right-of-way... and the people pulling onto the road ALWAYS have to yield to those on it.

As such YOUR insurance would have to pay those expenses, how much would be determined based on the amount you are insured for. If you have the bare minimum required in some states... that might prove insufficient and you would have to rely on your own medical coverage.

This is a DOUBLE accident. The first accident IS my daughter's fault. Being disabled in the middle of the lane and a couple of minutes later, the bus came through, slowed down, then sped up and hit them while they were struggling to get out. HOW is THAT their FAULT?

To make this perfectly clear to all--I *know* that my daughter was at fault for pulling out in front of the truck she didn't see. I *know* my insurance company is liable to pay for that. We've taken care of that part. The SECOND accident, which happened a couple of minutes AFTER the FIRST accident, involved a public transit bus that slowed down as people on both sides of the highway waved and yelled for it to stop, ignored them, sped up, and crashed into the rear of my disable vehicle with both my daughter and son-in-law struggling to get out of the mangled mess in the middle of the southbound lane. I just can't accept that it is my daughter's fault for this second accident. The bus SHOULD HAVE STOPPED!

I didn't say that the bus floored it. I said that it sped up after it slowed down. What I think the 78 year old driver did was slow down because people were flagging, looked to the left at the truck that was spun out in the neighbor's yard, thought she was clear, and accelerated. When she looked forward, she was already hitting the Xterra, no brakes until contact. A passerby was at the driver window and was drug under the front wheel of the bus by her head. It was ugly. Everyone was badly hurt. Yes, my daughter's fault for the truck hitting her--that was never my question if you re-read my original post. I need help with the bus accident after the truck. It was not helpful to hear something that was never in question in the first place. Sorry if you consider finding that unhelpful rude.

There will have to be an independent investigation... there is no possible way you as a parent could be thinking clearly at that monent. You would have been in a near state of panic... and fear... and every other emotion that goes with it. And the same with anyone who knew her well only to a lesser degree. And as I said... I know this... because I've experienced it myself. And I've seen others in this situation when I was detached by not knowing any of the idividuals involved.

I know you don't want to hear it... but that's how it is. And with Injuries etc... there IS going to be an investigation. And its going to take more time than you want it to. You don't want the Police jumping to conclusions just to be fast. You want them to be right when they make their determinations.

...
One would think that my insurance company or the insurance company of the bus would cover these injuries and expenses, but the police report has a witness testimony from a man who said that he and his passenger removed them from the Xterra BEFORE the bus hit them, so they say we have no case. I amended the police report to include my witness testimony, but I can't find an attorney to take the case. I spoke to both of the witnesses that were purported to have taken them out of the vehicle before the accident, and they deny that is what happened. However, my insurance company says that they also talked to the man and that he told them that they HAD taken my daughter and son-in-law out of the Xterra BEFORE the bus hit.

We need legal help in the worst way, and being disabled, and now none of us able to work, cannot afford to hire council to handle this for us. What can we do? Where do we go? How do we get fair treatment and representation? No one is helping us. No one wants to....

Your insurance is maxed out? I don't yet see what difference it makes, as far as your insurance is concerned, whether the injuries were caused by the first collision or the collision with the bus.

Now, with respect to the bus insurance coverage, of course it makes a difference. They are believing what they say two witnesses told them at one time, as opposed to what you are telling them happened (and what the same witnesses told you). How many attorneys have you spoken to? None will take the case on a contingent fee, I gather. Did they tell you their analysis of the case and explain why they don't think you have a case?

You recited the injuries received in the first collision and then the additional injuries received in the second collision with the bus. I am wondering how you were able to determine which collision caused such injuries.

I'm a liability investigator in NY - that's what I do all day, every day. That having been said - if your daughter pulled out in front of a vehicle that SHOULD have had its headlights on but DID NOT have its headlights on, the accident is not 100% her fault. Half dusk/half light requires headlights. That also has another side - you could see the accident clearly from 800 feet away. Not possible if the other vehicle should have headlights on. So that's pretty much a "wash."

What was the time frame between accident #1 and accident #2?

I have done many of these "2 accident accidents" and it is almost impossible to determine which accident caused which injuries. I trust that a Physician has provided the breakdown you have posted.

I strongly recommend (as do the Attorneys I work for) that family members NOT get involved in discussing what they did or didn't see with witnesses. You are perceived to be biased; many family members push and offend the witnesses. If the witness wasn't sure one party was at fault before family members began calling, they'll be pretty sure that party was at fault before it's all over. I talk to witnesses as a total independent party. The Police are totally independent parties - although the Police are NOT witnesses and their reports can and do get set aside.

If, as you appear to think, the witnesses are biased or outright lying - why do you think they are not telling the truth? It would appear with such a bad accident that they would be eager to get the truth out - or, at least, that's been my experience and I've done this work for a lot of years.

The only way to get legal representation is to keep knocking on doors. Some attorney, some place, will take this case - you just have to find that attorney. It may very well be that you are too involved in this and the attorneys want to speak to the actual parties who were injured.

I will add that the testimony of an independent witness is very hard to set aside and you may very well have poisoned the well by speaking to a witness (or witnesses).

Were there passengers on the bus? Were there other witnesses? What does the bus driver say?

(I have not read all of your follow up questions/answers and am basing this on your FIRST post.)

To make this perfectly clear to all--I *know* that my daughter was at fault for pulling out in front of the truck she didn't see. I *know* my insurance company is liable to pay for that. We've taken care of that part. The SECOND accident, which happened a couple of minutes AFTER the FIRST accident, involved a public transit bus that slowed down as people on both sides of the highway waved and yelled for it to stop, ignored them, sped up, and crashed into the rear of my disable vehicle with both my daughter and son-in-law struggling to get out of the mangled mess in the middle of the southbound lane. I just can't accept that it is my daughter's fault for this second accident. The bus SHOULD HAVE STOPPED!


Who are the witnesses that gave their reports to the insurance company? These people or someone else?

I have spoken to 6 attorneys. They all said that without the police report amended, there is no case, no proof the kids were in the vehicle when the bus hit.

My daughter's doctors all said that the injuries on her right side are not consistent with a blow from the right. When they were hit by the bus, they had just managed to get their seatbelts off, and my son-in-law was trying to help my daughter get her legs out from between the crushed door and the center console. She got them out by sliding up in the seat, put her feet on the seat, and that's when the bus hit them at about 45-50 mph. When I went in the vehicle to get her out, she was jammed onto the headrest of the seat (which broke her pelvis). The blow to her shoulder from impacting the roof of the vehicle when the bus hit it from the rear is what broke her shoulder, collarbone, crushed 6 ribs front and back and disconnected them from her sternum, which are all jutting out under the skin of her chest.

So I have professional witnesses to rebuke the claim that the bus didn't hit them.

I'm an accident investigator. Please answer my questions so that I can address your concerns properly.

I have spoken to 6 attorneys. They all said that without the police report amended, there is no case, no proof the kids were in the vehicle when the bus hit.

Sure there is proof. Your testimony, your kids' testimony, forensic evidence probably, plenty of proof.

As JudyKayTee told you, "Police are NOT witnesses and their reports can and do get set aside."

So something about this picture is not right. What state are you in?

When I can't get a direct answer to a direct question my spidey senses begin to tingle.

I have a serious question... what is this "professional witness" that was mentioned earlier having "witnessed" the accident? Is that someone that's paid to tell a story on the stand in exchange for money?

... That also has another side - you could see the accident clearly from 800 feet away. Not possible if the other vehicle should have headlights on. So that's pretty much a "wash."...

She said she could "clearly see... that [her] Xterra was hit and disabled." She ran to the Xterra and was 50 feet away "when the bus hit it."

I have a serious question.....what is this "professional witness" that was mentioned earlier having "witnessed" the accident? Is that someone thats paid to tell a story on the stand in exchange for money?

I count six posts in this thread from Sangreaal. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but only the last one mentions "professional witnesses". She doesn't say that these professionals "witnessed the accident"



So I have professional witnesses to rebuke the claim that the bus didn't hit them. I assume what she is talking about there is the doctors; who of course didn't witness the accident.

I count six posts in this thread from Sangreaal. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but only the last one mentions "professional witnesses". She doesn't say that these professionals "witnessed the accident"


I assume what she is talking about there is the doctors; who of course didn't witness the accident.Read post #11



Today, 01:35 PM #11
Sangreaal [?]
New Member



Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6
Reputation score: 10 Comment on AK lawyer's post

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So I have professional witnesses to rebuke the claim that the bus didn't hit them.



For them to do that... they would have had to witness the said event.

First, may I call your attention to the guidelines for using the comments feature found here:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/feedback/using-comments-feature-24951.html

Your negative rating was inappropriate because Smoothy's response was not factually inaccurate.

You aren't going to like this either. One rule in accidents such as you describe is to NOT remove victims from the vehicles, to leave that EMTs and rescue people. Had you done that you wouldn't be in this situation. Especially given the nature of the injuries as described you could have made them worse and probably did.

As far as suing the bus company, have you talked to your insurance carrier? Your coverage may include the services of an attorney to fight this. If not, you need to assemble all the testimony and physical evidence and take that around to attorneys to show them what type of case you have.

Read post #11
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For them to do that...they would have had to witness the said event.

No they wouldn't. The doctors' expert testimony, based upon the nature of the injuries would "rebuke (or rebut) the claim that the bus didn't hit them."
Read Sangreaal's comment on my post, made at 1:33 today (post #10).

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You aren't going to like this either. One rule in accidents such as you describe is to NOT remove victims from the vehicles, to leave that EMTs and rescue people. Had you done that you wouldn't be in this situation. Especially given the nature of the injuries as described you could have made them worse and probably did.

As far as suing the bus company, have you talked to your insurance carrier? Your coverage may include the services of an attorney to fight this. If not, you need to assemble all the testimony and physical evidence and take that around to attorneys to show them what type of case you have.

Yes. SG, I would have given you a greenie on this but I'm out of them.

Good point: why remove accident victims before the EMTs can get there? Might be water under the bridge, but could also be grounds for suit against these well-meaning good Samaritans, unfortunately.

I was assuming that OP had explored this possibility. Normally I believe auto insurance policies only cover the cost of defending a suit, not that of an action against the other party (when the other party is not suing you), but it wouldn't hurt to look into it.

Boggles the mind, now that I think about it. OP's insurance carrier funding a suit by OP's daughter and son-in-law against the first vehicle owner, the bus company, and OP! The carrier might have to pay for two lawyers.:eek:

No they wouldn't. The doctors' expert testimony, based upon the nature of the injuries would "rebuke (or rebut) the claim that the bus didn't hit them."
Read Sangreaal's comment on my post, made at 1:33 today (post #10).

Ok.. I can accept that... and its another good reason the Developers need to get rid of the comment feature here... if it have been answered and quoted rather then commented on it would have been easier to follow.

Who got them out of the vechile finally ? That would be your witness. The kids are also witness of what happened to them.

And I will assume you want an attorney who will take the case on a percentage, and not one that you are going to write a check to, the difference, one who works on a percentae will need a large case to be worth taking, where there is no split liability often.

So you can always just hire one by paying them, few ever turn down a check.

I was referring to this: "I heard the first collision and ran to the highway (my home is 800ft off the highway). I could clearly see from my yard that my Xterra was hit and disabled."

I have no idea at what point it was clear that the Xterra was hit and disabled. I realize it's somewhere between 800 feet and 50 feet but I would certainly "hang my hat" on this one if the argument is that the other vehicle SHOULD have been using headlights but was not.

Apparently it was not dark.

I was referring to this: "I heard the first collision and ran to the highway (my home is 800ft off the highway). I could clearly see from my yard that my Xterra was hit and disabled."

I have no idea at what point it was clear that the Xterra was hit and disabled. I realize it's somewhere between 800 feet and 50 feet but I would certainly "hang my hat" on this one if the argument is that the other vehicle SHOULD have been using headlights but was not.

Apparently it was not dark.

And all this points to why eye witness testimony is generally considered unreliable.

I think the physician's testimony that the injuries occurred from two separate incidents would be more compelling.

I was referring to this: "I heard the first collision and ran to the highway (my home is 800ft off the highway). I could clearly see from my yard that my Xterra was hit and disabled."

I have no idea at what point it was clear that the Xterra was hit and disabled. I realize it's somewhere between 800 feet and 50 feet but I would certainly "hang my hat" on this one if the argument is that the other vehicle SHOULD have been using headlights but was not.

Apparently it was not dark.

Yes. This is one example of the saying "a picture is worth 1,000 words."

Here is a "SketchUp (http://sketchup.google.com/intl/en/)" of how I picture the scene:
http://images3a.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp733%3A7%3Enu%3D5%3B5%3A%3E74%3B%3E25 7%3EWSNRCG%3D33724387%3A8348nu0mrj
But I think her argument is not about whether the first vehicle's lights were on or off. She doesn't say that she was looking when the first collision happened.

Anyway, she hasn't returned to this thread for a while. In the mean time we are sort of shooting in the dark.

Yes. This is one example of the saying "a picture is worth 1,000 words."


If you're ever interested in working in NY, call me! (I also sketched it out, by the way.)

If you're ever interested in working in NY, call me! (I also sketched it out, by the way.)

:)
Sure, any time.

Something in this situation just doesn't add up. What state are you in? With these types of injuries you should have attorneys beating down your door to take this case. Whether they were in the car or not at the time of impact is a question of fact for a jury. No insurer is going to want to roll the dice with injuries of this magnitude on a "he said she said".