Sorry this may be really long. Please help and reply.
Okay this is my first post because I am really worrying about this thing.

I stole a Playstation Portable from a student at my school. I sold it to another student at my school. It doesn't really matter now but the Principals found out. In the office I admitted to stealing it and selling it. So they called the cops and I got arrested.

The office gave me a "Form 9". On the form 9 it says "This copy for accused" and "Appearance notice issued by a peace officer to a person not yet charged with an offence." The Form 9 gives me my fingerprinting date and court date. I am "alleged to have committed theft under $5000."

I am not 15 years old (not 16 = not adult yet right?). I have a lot of questions i wish you guys can help me with.

I dont think my family can afford a lawyer for me. So i have a question about legal aid or court appointed lawyer. If i do not get a lawyer, will the court appoint me with a "court appointed lawyer" the day of my court date or do I have to call legal aid and talk with him before the court date?

Also how does the criminal record thing work. Do I automatically have a criminal record the day I get fingerprinted and mugshotted? Or is it the judge (on the date of court) that chooses whether to give me a criminal record or not.

Without getting a real lawyer what do you think my sentence will be?
What is the worst sentence I could get without hiring a lawyer?
How much can I depend on a court appointed lawyer?
How much difference can a "real" lawyer make in my case?

How old are you?

Where do you live?

So you are another student? You made it sound like you were a teacher at first.

You do not have a criminal record until the judge finds you GUILTY.

I am 15 years old and was 15 years old when I committed the theft.

I live in Ontario, Canada.

I am a student. I stole student "A"s psp and sold it to student "B".

I am probably going to plead guilty but is there any chance that the judge can give me sum sort of sentence without giving me a criminal record. I am very concerned about my future.

Also thank you for reply. Is there anyone else who can answer questions from my first post?

Upon you turning 18, your criminal record will be DESTROYED.

That is one thing about the Young Offenders Act in Canada. Upon your 18th birthday our slate is wiped clean and you get a new fresh chance.

A lawyer is a lawyer for a first non violent crime. It is all the same pretty much. First offence you shouldn't get jail time.

Try to work out a plea bargain BEFORE you plead guilty.

You obviously know what you are talking about so I hope you don't mind me asking you a few more questions.

If what you say is true, so after I'm if I commit a crime or if for sum reason the police have to look at my background, will the criminal record (before turning 18) show up or not.

What about if I apply for a job? Or apply for a university after I turn 18. In the questionnaire do I tick the box that says "Yes i have NOT been convicted a crime in which a pardon has not been granted"? And will it be true if I say "Yes i do NOT have a criminal record."

"Try to work out a plea bargain BEFORE you plead guilty."?
How do I go about doing this? What do I ask for? Is this something that I discuss with the court appointed lawyer first? Or any lawyer?

Thanks for replies.

Will it show up on a background check before you turn 18?

Good question.

On one hand the records are suppose to be sealed, on the other, they are still there.

I do not know.



When you apply for a job or university?
I don't remember having to go through a background check to apply to university.

As for the job, most jobs for teenagers don't require a background check.

One you turn 18, you would check off under “Have you ever been convicted of a criminal offence for which a pardon has not been granted”, you would check NO. Since at 18, your record is gone and you have no record.



Plea Bargain.
Talk with your lawyer. Have him talk to the Crown Prosecutor and work some kind of deal out.

Thank you for replies.

I do not think my family can afford a lawyer. Can a court appointed lawyer make a plea bargain too?


Without getting a real lawyer what do you think my sentence will be?
What is the worst sentence I could get without hiring a lawyer?
How much can I depend on a court appointed lawyer?
How much difference can a "real" lawyer make in my case?


Is a court appointed lawyer a "on-the-date of court" type thing where they just send one in or is it something I still have to setup myself before the court date.

Can you please tell me some major advantages or disadvantages of having a court appointed lawyer?

A court appointed lawyer IS a "real" lawyer. They are lawyers donating their time to defendants who can't afford one. While many such lawyers are inexperienced, they still have a law degree.

For your offence, a court appointed lawyer should be fine. The major disadvantages are they may be less experienced and have a bigger case load. The advantage is they are free. The atty is appointed prior to your arraignment.

As Captain told, you, if this is a first offense, you are likely to get probation, not jail time, And your record will be expunged at 18. So this should not affect your ability to enter university or get a job. If you are arrested again after age 18, the cops can probably see that you had a juvenile record, but not what it was for.

"and have a bigger case load."

What does this exactly mean and how does it affect me?

"The atty is appointed prior to your arraignment."

I really don't know what this means. Does it mean that on the day I go to court there will already be a court appointed lawyer waiting there if I do not have one?

Or do I have to set it up some kind of meeting with the court appointed lawyer outside of court and before the date of my court??

Thanks for replies.

Yes a court appointed lawyer can make a plea bargain too.

As Scott has said, a court appointed lawyer is a “real” lawyer.


Worse sentence you can get? Maximum of 2 years in prison.

Sorry this may be really long. Please help and reply.
Okay this is my first post because i am really worrying about this thing.

I stole a Playstation Portable from a student at my school. I sold it to anotehr student at my school. It doesnt really matter now but the Principals found out. In the office i admitted to stealing it and selling it. So they called the cops and I got arrested.

The office gave me a "Form 9". On the form 9 it says "This copy for accused" and "Appearance notice issued by a peace officer to a person not yet charged with an offence." The Form 9 gives me my fingerprinting date and court date. I am "alleged to have committed theft under $5000."

I am not 15 years old (not 16 = not adult yet right?). I have a lot of questions i wish you guys can help me with.

I dont think my family can afford a lawyer for me. So i have a question about legal aid or court appointed lawyer. If i do not get a lawyer, will the court appoint me with a "court appointed lawyer" the day of my court date or do i have to call legal aid and talk with him before the court date?

Also how does the criminal record thing work. Do i automatically have a criminal record the day i get fingerprinted and mugshotted? Or is it the judge (on the date of court) that chooses whether to give me a criminal record or not.

Without getting a real lawyer what do u think my sentence will be?
What is the worst sentence i could get without hiring a lawyer?
How much can i depend on a court appointed lawyer?
How much difference can a "real" lawyer make in my case?
I don't know weather you are in canada or the us,but I know from first hand ,that a court appointed legal idiot,is not the best road to take,legal aid don't care if you win or lose,they just want the money,I was up on charges of theft under $5000.00,and I lost,because of legal aid,I appealed to a higher court and got me a real lawyer,and won,I find that legal aid,don't have enough exp,and don't ask the right questions,or just don't care,, my advice is get yourself a real lawyer,one that specializes in juvinile criminal cases.they have their clients best interests in hand,, good luck

Right. Thanks for replies but I must repeat one question about a court appointed lawyer.

When I go to court on my court date without bringing my own hired lawyer, will they provide me with a court appointed lawyer the day-of?

Or do I have to set up some meeting/appointment with a court appointed lawyer before my court date.

Basically I'm asking if I want a court appointed lawyer, will I see him ever before the date of my court or will our first meeting be when I get to the court?

i don't know weather you are in canada or the us,but i know from first hand ,that a court appointed legal idiot,is not the best road to take,legal aid don't care if you win or lose,they just want the money,

First, Given that the OP name is ONTARIOKid, and the Theft under $5000 charge is a Canadian charge, I think it's a safe bet that he's from Canada.

Second, Just because you had a bad experience with a Legal Aid lawyer is no reason to give a blanket comdemnamtion. And to say that "they just want the money" shows you don't know much about the legal aid system.

There are basically two types; Legal Aid and Public Defenders. With Legal Aid, there is an actually non profit organization bad by the courts that employs lawyers at an annual salary. Generally this salary is very low. They do not get paid per case. In a Public Defender system, lawyers list themselves as available to take on cases and the judge will assign a lawyer from the list. Their PD work is generally pro bono or at a small stipend from the court.

There are good and bad lawyers in that system just as there are good and bad lawyers in private practice. And, again Legal Aid lawyers ARE "real" lawyers. You don't give the details of your case so its impossible to determine whether you were badly represented or not.

Lol scott gem.

***********repeat

When I go to court on my court date without bringing my own hired lawyer, will they provide me with a court appointed lawyer the day-of?

Or do I have to set up some meeting/appointment with a court appointed lawyer before my court date.

Basically I'm asking if I want a court appointed lawyer, will I see him ever before the date of my court or will our first meeting be when I get to the court?

Assuming that this is a first offense you're probably looking at a sentence of restitution and community service. That being the case, it's not likely that the court would appoint a lawyer for you if you do not hire your own. It's slim to none that you're looking at jail time or anything comparably serious so it may not be worth it to even hire a lawyer. As for your criminal record, that becomes official when you are convicted, either by means of a guilty plea or being found guilty by a jury or judge. However, as a juvenile, there's a good chance that your record would be expunged upon attaining your majority, especially if you have no further run-ins with the law.

If you do need an atty one will be appointed when you first appear in court.

Thanks cianci and scott gem. Clears it up for me for sure now.

I am going to plea guilty (of the theft) so should I ask for their court appointed lawyer at all or just admit it, and hope it goes as smoothly and quick as it can?

If you ar egoing to plead guilty you don't need an atty. But I would hesitate to plead guilty. You can always plead guilty later, but if you plead not guilty you stand a better chance of getting probabtion or even getting charges dismissed for restitution.

Scottgem, I ask you to give me your opinion again after I tell you more of the story.

At school, the students told the principals my name. I was dragged down to office and I admitted to at least 3 principals that I stole the psp from student A and sold it to student B for over 100 dollars. The "reason" I gave them was admittedly: "because i wanted the money".

When the officer came to the school office to technically "arrest" me, he did so because I admitted to stealing it and selling it. Hence I was charged for theft under 5000. My parents were also there when the officer was speaking to me. I admitted in front of everyone because I did not want to cause more trouble by lying.

On another note, the principal suspended me for 5 days and got the incident down on my file. When I asked, and I quote, "How does my sentence in court affect my school 'stuff'?"

She told me that based on my sentence, I could get more consequences in school (eg. Expelsion, suspension, etc etc.). What I am trying to get at is if the school/principals find out that I tried (or DID) plea NOT GUILTY in court, then won't I get even more ed over at school because now I've lied in court.

Bottom line for me, is that I'm scared I will get more punishment at school if I plea not guilty in court.

Bottom line is:
-i would be scared of pleaing not guilty in court because I've already admitted "guilty" to the principals, the officer, and my parents?
-how would I stand a chance if I've already admitted this stuff before

Can you re-think about your opinion and tell me what you think now?

(You've been a lot of help scottgem, same with captain forest, thanks a lot.)

Bump

Pleading not guilty at arraignment is not lying in court. Its SOP to pave the way for some type of deal. The school will understand this. You don't stand a chance of being acquitted, but that's not what the issue is. You expect to be punished and have learned your lesson (I hope). But the process is now about making sure the punishment isn't too onerous.

Before you enter a plea, you will be assigned an atty and have a chance to chat with them. Go by what they advise.

Thanks, ill be thinking about some more stuff. You've been great help.