Reports are sketchy but confirmed that Gabrielle Giffords has been shot along with a number of people at an event in Tucson Arizona.

The shooter is said to be in custody the name of the shooter is being withheld . She is married to astronaut Mark Kelly, commander of STS 134, the last scheduled space shuttle mission .

Giffords is a member of the Democrat 'blue dog ' coalition. I'm sure there will be more detail later. Right now everything else is speculation.

Edit :My earlier posting that she is dead is premature at this point. There are some sites that report her killed and others say she is still alive in surgery.

Good news . Doctor says she is out of surgery and that he'd optimistic about her recovery.

Also among the vicitims of the shootings is Federal Judge John Roll ,who was killed .

AP has named the shooter as 22 year old Jared Lee Loughner. His web ramblings show that he is a disturbed man.

They are saying the shooter is a loner who has written on the Internet all sorts of rambling passages about the numbering of years and problems with currency, all accompanied by music, but it doesn't seem to be a political shooting.

***EDIT***Now it is being reported that the congresswoman was conducting a town-hall-type meeting, and the deranged shooter showed up and began shooting.

Our prayers for all the injured and the families of them and those killed.

It is sad when those who wish to lead and be in touch with the public have to fear to be in public. And it is sad that our culture really has no help in place for those that often need it but will not get it.

What a senseless act... prayers for all involved.

Prayers she gets through it with little more than a bad memory and a scar to show for it. And for the five families who lost someone.

Another bit of fallout from no longer being able to keep the severely mentally disturbed locked up, BEFORE they do something horrible.

This is such a blatant and wasteful crime.

Another bit of fallout from no longer being able to keep the severely mentally disturbed locked up, BEFORE they do something horrible.
They used to be locked up, but in the early '70s, it was decided that they too had rights, could be released from hospitals and other institutions, and be responsible for taking their medications. Keeping them locked up wasn't PC.

We've seen how well that has worked out -- increased drug use and traffic, homelessness, families at each other throats, theft, murder.. .

They used to be locked up, but in the early '70s, it was decided that they too had rights, could be released from hospitals and other institutions, and be responsible for taking their medications. Keeping them locked up wasn't PC.

We've seen how well that has worked out -- increased drug use and traffic, homelessness, families at each other throats, theft, murder... .

Never gets attention until its someone prominent either. Look how fast this stuff turned up about him... less than an hour, that means LOTS of people knew about his issues. Yet was anything ever done? Too early to know for sure... but I'm making an early guess that he wasn't in therapy or treatment.

Too early to know for sure....but I'm making an early guess that he wasn't in therapy or treatment.
Even if he had been once -- or twice -- or fifty times, mental illness is not something you "get over" and go back to normal. It a lifelong struggle. The mentally ill typically stop taking their meds or going to therapy when they finally start feeling better, which of course is exactly what they shouldn't do. Many times, they have "good reasons" for not taking their meds, to wit --

My bipolar uncle was given an MAOI after his previous med stopped being effective. It seemed to be working well. One day, he was talking with a neighbor who informed him that he couldn't eat cheese with that particular med. (My uncle very likely hadn't read the accompanying information sheet about the drug when he picked it up from the pharmacy. What mentally ill person does?) My uncle loved cheese, and immediately went off his med. One of my clients hated taking her meds spaced throughout the day, so she swallowed them all at one time at night before bed, promptly threw them up, and cursed psychiatry. A schizophrenic friend wrote her best poetry when she was off meds, so she refused to take them.

So tell me why Jared shot nineteen people?

It will come out... we just have to wait a while longer for it to.

It will come out....we just have to wait a while longer for it to.
And the "reason" may not make sense to anyone, including the shooter.

And the "reason" may not make sense to anyone, including the shooter.How often does it ever? Really?

How often does it ever? Really?
My son had TV on all evening (*gack* five feet to my left). Commentators and reporters are ranting about the politics of it all. That may be in there a little, but the shooting goes far beyond politics. That might be only the "reason" given that "normals" can hang their hat on.

A nut job did it, plane and simple, a young nutjob... did the Bush blaming start yet? Want to take bets on how long before his name is brought up by someone on the left? OR until someone starts claiming Obamacare would have prevented it? Or its global warming...

Bet it won't last the night if it hasn't started already. Haven't been watching the news... Been watching movies all night.

Had the mentally impared been taken care of like they once were... these people would likely be still walking... and John Lennon would likely still be with us too.

Like you said... the mentally impaired really aren't in the situation where they should be allowed to decide if they need meds or not. A few actually Like the voices in their heads... etc.

A nut job did it, plane and simple, a young nutjob... did the Bush blaming start yet? Want to take bets on how long before his name is brought up by someone on the left? OR until someone starts claiming Obamacare would have prevented it? Or its global warming...
An unmedicated nut.. . Oh, yeah, Obamacare has been mentioned. I haven't heard Bush talked about, and my son has had mostly MSNBC on.

Bet it won't last the night if it hasn't started already.
It's a feeding frenzy right now.

A few actually Like the voices in their heads... etc.
Like my poet friend Brownie. Or my word-salad friend Brian who gives me Christian hugs. Or my five-times-married narcissist friend Jerry.

I'm waiting to see what the Washington Post dreams up in the morning... I'm about ready to cancel that waste of money... Its only good for the Sunday comics and coupons. Nothing but propaganda anymore. Article today forgiving Helen Thomas for her SOBER anti Semetic rant that got her fired saing she deseves to return to work... But they all but called for Mel Gibsons execution for a DRUNKEN rant.

100-1 odds the News agencys make this purely political by the AM. And ignore the shooters obvious instability. Want to take me up on it?

100-1 odds the News agencys make this purely political by the AM. and ignore the shooters obvious instability. Want to take me up on it?
You've got a sure thing there. So far NO ONE has talked about mental illness in this country and the changes that came about in treatment during the 1970s. I feel like calling one of our columnists.

You've got a sure thing there. So far NO ONE has talked about mental illness in this country and the changes that came about in treatment during the 1970s. I feel like calling one of our columnists.

Go for it... I really should do it too... if I could decide which one.

Have you read any of this guy's rants on YouTube?

It seems pretty clear that he was schizophrenic.

YouTube - Classitup10's Channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10#p/a/u/1/nHoaZaLbqB4)

While we are at it, why not write our congressmen about the increased need of mental health care? I have.

To me that was random, senseless mumbo jumbo...

They used to be locked up, but in the early '70s, it was decided that they too had rights, could be released from hospitals and other institutions, and be responsible for taking their medications. Keeping them locked up wasn't PC.

We've seen how well that has worked out -- increased drug use and traffic, homelessness, families at each other throats, theft, murder... .

That began here in California under Governor Reagan. It was a cost cutting program to release the mentally ill onto the streets, where they have pretty much remained ever since. It was not a liberal idea but a conservative, anti-tax idea.

I monitored the blogs yesterday . Sarah Palin and the 'Tea Party' got the biggest number mentions
The idiot Paul Krugman blamed the 'Tea Party' early in the afternoon well before any facts were established
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/08/assassination-attempt-in-arizona/
Mental health was 1st brought up here and appears to be the real story behind these murders .

Christina Taylor Green a 9 year old girl newly elected to her school student council was gunned down by Loughner.
She was born 9-11-01 and was featured in a book called 'Faces of Hope, Babies Born on 9/11 '.
Amazon.com: Faces of Hope, Babies Born on 9/11 (9780757300974): Christine Naman: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Faces-Hope-Babies-Born-11/dp/0757300979)



Other victims murdered include as already mentioned U.S. District Judge John McCarthy Roll, who was appointed by President George H.W. Bush in 1991.He was leaving church and appears to be a random victim. Notable is the fact that he has been at the center of the illegal immigration controversy.

Gabe Zimmerman, an aide to Rep. Giffords.Zimmerman was engaged to be married.

Dorwin Stoddard, 76, a pastor at Mountain Ave. Church of Christ. His wife Mavanell was shot in the legs and is expected to survive.

Dorthy Murray, 76.

Phyllis Scheck, 79.

13 people were wounded including
Gifford's deputy director Ron Barber ,and staffer, Pam Simon.

That began here in California under Governor Reagan. It was a cost cutting program to release the mentally ill onto the streets, where they have pretty much remained ever since. It was not a liberal idea but a conservative, anti-tax idea.

Deinstitutionalisation is a movement that began early in the 20th century. If I was to place a political movement behind it(which I don't) ,I would have to point to the 'progressive" movement that began at the end of the 19th century.

To me that was random, senseless mumbo jumbo....

That is the thinking of many unmedicated schizophrenics.

A nut job did it, plane and simple, a young nutjob.......did the Bush blaming start yet? Hello smoothy:

Nahhh... Bush didn't put crosshairs on her district... Sarah Palin did. (http://gawker.com/5728545/shot-congresswoman-was-in-sarah-palins-crosshairs)

excon

A Nexus search will show that is a common political metaphor that both sides and the press regularly employ.

a Nexus search will show that is a common political metaphor that both sides and the press regularily employ.Hello again, tom:

So, two wrongs DO make a right... Look, if that excuses her, and makes you feel better, go for it.

excon

By the way . The Palin map in question did not use crosshairs. It had surveyor symbols which are commonly used to pinpoint locations on a map .

Okay guys, this was neither the fault of Bush, Palin OR Obama. This was a case of unmedicated mental illness.

Let's not turn this into a political debate because that's not what it is. Let's stick to the OP.

the Palin map in question did not use crosshairs. It had surveyor symbols which are commonly used to pinpoint locations on a map .Hello again, tom:

I'm SURE you're not the first right winger spin it this way. Look. I don't know IF using "surveryors" symbols, or Sharron Angle's remarks about using Second Amendment remedies, or Michelle Bachmans remarks about her supporters being "locked and loaded", causes nuts like these to take action... But, the thinking of the day is that it COULD!

Yet, people like you poo poo that, and say they're surveyor symbols... Who can blame Palin for using SURVEYOR symbols??

excon

Let's stick to the original topic or this thread will be closed.

Let's not turn this into a political debate because that's not what it is. Let's stick to the OP. Hello J:

You're not suggesting that this ISN'T political, are you?? Well, you might be, and you'd be wrong..

excon

No, I wouldn't be wrong. This is about mental illness. Now, let's get back on topic.

Here is a Dem map in 2006 that actually uses targets
DLC: Heartland Strategy by Will Marshall (http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253055&kaid=127&subid=171)

Who published this map ? The Democrat Leadership Committee.
But that map is no biggie and doesn't inspire deranged lunatics to attack politicians... and neither did Palin's map.
This guy's politics from what I read is inconsistent ;or perhaps reminicent of the late 19th century anarchist movement .

J-9 I posted this as an open OP . It turned into a mental illness one and that's OK. But I never intended it to be restricted to that.

Ex and I are not having a hostile discussion ;just a debate .

Hello J:

You're not suggesting that this ISN'T political, are you??? Well, you might be, and you'd be wrong..

excon

You know politics, I don't. I know mental illness, you don't.

Ex and I are not having a hostile discussion ;just a debate .

Then take it to another thread as this one is going severely off topic from the OP.

Let's stick to the original topic or this thread will be closed.Hello again, J:

If you were operating as a MOD, I wouldn't quibble... But, you are a right winger, and it upsets you to hear your favorite people blamed for this tragedy. I haven't even started on Glenn Beck...

I understand how you feel. I'd feel that way too. But, I WOULDN'T pretend that what you're threatening to do is because you're a mod. J, my friend, THIS is a time for you to recuse yourself as a mod.

excon

I created this op and definitely did not mention mental illness in the opening comment.

I created this op and definitely did not mention mental illness in the opening comment.

I'll agree, but can you show me what this actually has to do with Palin?

While you were in your cozy bed all night, I was up researching this man. It is evident that he is suffering from political, yes I said political, delusions which is common, along with religious delusions, caused by schizophrenia.

Unfortunately, I am no longer at work, and it would take hours for me to research the links I read/watched to provide them here.

Let's see, he wants to create not one, but 3 kinds of currency... has problems with grammar... thinks he is a "conscious dreamer." If that's not mental illness, I don't know what is.

I'll agree, but can you show me what this actually has to do with Palin?Hello again, J:

I'm trying to DO that very thing... I suggest that this NUT might have seen some crosshairs, I mean "surveyors marks", painted on his LOCAL congresswoman's district, and DID something about it...

You, along with tom and every other right winger in the world DON'T agree... Cool... But, don't close the thread because of it.

excon

It was I and not Ex who brought Palin up.
For what it's worth ;this is a discussion board ;not a topic board... and unless the conversation gets personally hostile or offensive the discussions should not be removed regardless of the direction they take.

Much of my research has been lost because discussion have been closed for what in my opinion were flimsy reasons.

I as the op author do not have an issue with the direct it takes .I also think it could easily support multiple discussions as other op's have turned

Hello again, J:

I'm trying to DO that very thing... I suggest that this NUT might have seen some targets, I mean crosshairs, painted on his LOCAL congresswoman's district, and DID something about it...

You, along with tom and every other right winger in the world DON'T agree... Cool... But, don't close the thread because of it.

excon

But I'm wondering if he "saw" them or if he "saw" them. From my research last night it is apparent he is suffering from delusions.

It appears that he may be creating a "panic" from something that is not really there. In mental health it's called mass hysteria.

I suggest that this NUT might have seen some crosshairs, I mean "surveyors marks", painted on his LOCAL congresswoman's district, and DID something about it...



Perhaps .His rants don't suggest that. I could also mention his drug use burned out some of his wiring. But I have no evidence of that either.

Okay. If you will take a look at this video and tell me what you think... please?

YouTube - Jared Lee Loughner "Introduction Video" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1leJz7VkBP4&feature=watch_response_rev)

Does it make sense to you?

I doubt I have your attention, but if I do... can you make sense of this?

YouTube - Hello (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uRjwPWaxiY&feature=related)

But I'm wondering if he "saw" them or if he "saw" them. From my research last night it is apparent he is suffering from delusions.Hello again, J:

No one can, or ever will get into his head. I'm NOT saying that there's a DIRECT link. I don't know if there's ANY link at all. I simply suggest that what you and I consider to be political rhetoric, some NUT might consider it to be permission to act.

That's why some of us think that ANY reference to violence by a political figure should be AVOIDED at all costs... Others, like you, think I'M the nut for even making the suggestion...

excon

Hello again, J:

No one can, or ever will get into his head. I'm NOT saying that there's a DIRECT link. I don't know if there's ANY link at all. I simply suggest that what you and I consider to be political rhetoric, some NUT might consider it to be permission to act. That's why some of us think that ANY reference to violence by a political figure should be AVOIDED at all costs...

Others, like you, think I'M the nut for even making the suggestion...

excon

The Hinkley defense or the Chapman defense ?

Hello again, J:

No one can, or ever will get into his head. I'm NOT saying that there's a DIRECT link. I don't know if there's ANY link at all. I simply suggest that what you and I consider political rhetoric, some NUT might consider it permission. That's why some of us think that ANY reference to violence by a political figure should be AVOIDED at all costs...

Others, like you, think I'M the nut for even making the suggestion...

excon

I don't think you are a nut, but I think you don't understand a mind that does not have it's synapses firing correctly.

I see that the mentally ill might consider it permission, and I agree that references to political violence should be avoided at all costs.

The question at hand is how to do this? Do we raise taxes to reopen the state mental institutions?

We can't blame politics for these rants as there is another force at work here.

GAWD, I could go on and on, and finally this is a debate I could actually participate in. However, since I am up for 36 hours now... I think I'd rather be a med student rather than a nurse, I think I need to get some shut eye because I have to mentally prepare to give a deposition Monday morning.

Then take it to another thread as this one is going severely off topic from the OP.
It that were the case then most Current Events threads would be closed. Let's keep things constant please.

Like it or not political violence is part of this countries history. Its even written into our constitution. After looking at the videos I see what he is saying. Maybe Im whacked because what he is doing is trying to open a mindset to an opinion.

Right now we do have several types of "money" and we do have a government trying to ban use of words as well as trying to change the fundemental meanings of the words we speak.

We are at a tipping point in this country where the people are at their wits end. Does it really make sense to anyone that our news tells us that when a white man says something bad (even if its true) against a black man its racism. And we are being more and more punished for our ideas. We all have the right to question.

And we are being more and more punished for our ideas.
How are you being punished for your ideas??

How are you being punished for your ideas???

Take a good look at any given day in the news. When someone forms an opinion and expesses it that isn't on the left they are labeled and called names in an atempt to atatch a negative stigma to them. Like the example previously given.

Ah I see, it's all the "left's" (whoever that is) fault again. Carry on.

Ah I see, it's all the "left's" (whoever that is) fault again. Carry on.

I didn't say it was their fault. It just seems its been happening more and more lately and the worst of it does come from representatives of the left.

Both sides seem to be reducing to name calling on a daily basis. Its bad for the country.

It just seems its been happening more and more lately and the worst of it does come from representatives of the left.I think that the only part you see, it happens on both sides.. a lot. Don't forget, it was a democrat that got shot.

Anyway best stay on topic 'lest this thread gets closed.

I think that the only part you see, it happens on both sides.. a lot. Don't forget, it was a democrat that got shot.

Anyway best stay on topic 'lest this thread gets closed.

Agreed !!

Since this is in Member discussions. I think we should let it ramble and take whatever course it does.

I haven't researched the incident or the possible influences on the shooter. I would suspect that we may never know what influenced him. So anything posted here is going to be mostly speculation. If you guys want to have fun speculating feel free.

In my opinion anyone committing acts of violence like this is not operating on all cylinders. ANYTHING could set his deranged mind off.

Hello again:

I have purposefully AVOIDED seeing any of his videos, or reading ANYTHING about him... I don't care if he was politically motivated, or what. My views about the political class have NOTHING to do with this NUT. It has to do about them, their rhetoric, and who it effects, if anybody...

I say it DOES effect people... You say it doesn't...

excon

PS> Message to dad... When I watch Fox, I hear them say that everybody at MSNBC are liars, whereas, I think the commentators at Fox are the prevaricators... Imagine that.

PS> Message to dad... When I watch Fox, I hear them say that everybody at MSNBC are liars, whereas, I think the commentators at Fox are the prevaricators... Imagine that.

Agreed !!!

To me the whole political system is getting out of hand on both sides. You and I don't always agree but at least we can be civil about it and make our thoughts into reasonable debates. That way the reader can make a determination. Somehow we have strayed away from that path in our political system. Lets hope for the future and that we can return to civility.

Lets hope for the future and that we can return to civility.Hello again, dad:

I hope so too, but I'm soft lefty.. I'm sure tom will be along to tell us that we've been even more contentious in our past, than we are today. I'm not sure what's better... Smiling people who have NO passion, or passionate people who know no boundaries?

excon

PS> (edited) OMG.. I just re-read what I wrote.. It sounds suspiciously like Barry Goldwaters, "extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice... ..that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!"

Enough already
http://mvny.org/images/closed.gif

Hello again,

I picked the lock... Yeah, I'm good at stuff like that...

So, reading his stuff provides all sorts of speculations... I understand he was a member of a some antisemitic group, and she is a Jew. Maybe THAT'S the motive... Or, does it matter?

excon

Excon must have left the door open...

J_9 said what I was thinking last night when I had posted about all the mental institutions that had opened up during the early 1970s -- she said, "Do we raise taxes to reopen the state mental institutions?"

We've lost some famous and just ordinary fellow citizens to unmedicated mentally ill shooters. In fact, in Libraryland, we are wary of a patron who storms into the library, ranting about a fine or his uncle or a ham sandwich, and have periodic instruction on how to deal with them. (At the library where I worked, the police station was across the street, so that was comforting. We had a code word to alert other staff to call the cops.)

I think I will start a new thread.

I am getting tired of my work getting closed on this site . Up to now there is nothing in this posting that warrants it getting shut down . All discussions have been civil .

On another posting the consensus was that political correctness was the equivalent of censorship.

I understand that we don't want abusiveness . But that is not what is happening on this posting . Mods and administrators save your trigger fingers for OP's than merit your intervention please .

Hello again,

I picked the lock... Yeah, I'm good at stuff like that...

So, reading his stuff provides all sorts of speculations.... I understand he was a member of a some antisemitic group, and she is a Jew. Maybe THAT'S the motive... Or, does it matter?

excon
Ex you attribute his actions as somehow related to the political discourse . Then you admit to not reading or listening to his view because they don't matter . I think his actions are similar to Manson's . He blamed the Beatles .

Ex you attribute his actions as somehow related to the political discourse . Hello again, tom:

What I've been trying to do is NOT attribute his actions to anything... He's a NUT, after all. THAT means his actions aren't attributable to anything... I have not linked A to B. I only know that some politicians on the right talk about guns as though their use is not only perfectly legal, it's politically responsible... Then something like this happens...

Now, I don't know if there's a connection or not... What I DO know, is that IF politicians NEVER said that stuff, there wouldn't even be the suggestion of a link...

excon

I only know that some politicians on the right talk about guns as though their use is not only perfectly legal, it's politically responsible...

Can't think of one that says using guns to achieve political ends is acceptable .
But in the last campaign I did see Joe Manson put a bullet through the cap and trade bill in political ad.

Oh yeah and there was this gem in 2008
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/06/14/obama-if-they-bring-a-knife-to-the-fight-we-bring-a-gun/

So the left starts the Gun Grabbiibg Mantra Again... akin to Adolf Hitler... (big surprise... NOT)

How about going after the whack jobs first amendment rights too... he was posting some out there stuff? Or is it only the far left that should have any rights at all? Don't answer that... we already know what the far left thinks on that topic.

But it's the left that we all have to thank for all the mentally disturbed walking the streets today. Your Buddies at the ACLU had a hand in that. They used to be in institutions being forced to take their meds, before a left wing activist judge decided they had the right to terrorise the population and stay off their meds, then plead a insanity defence to dodge real punishment after the inevitable and they kill someone.

Funny you should mention the 1st Amendment. During the reading of the Constitution on the House floor this week Rep. Giffords was selected to read the 1st Amendment.

Since we are profiling , a quick look as the positions she took on issues would make her an unlikely 'target' for someone who's motives were right wing . As mentioned she is a so called 'Blue Dog' Democrat who has voted counter to the lefty playbook often.
She voted to end the DC bn on hand guns ;she is a deficit hawk ;she was one of the 18 Dems who broke ranks and voted against Pelosi this week for Speaker of the House.

More of the President's 'greatest hits'(all direct quotes to supporters) :

“Get in Their Faces!”

“I don't want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I'm angry!”

“Hit Back Twice As Hard”

“We talk to these folks… so I know whose a$$ to kick.“

( Republican victory would mean) “hand to hand combat”

“Punish your enemies.”

“I'm itching for a fight.”

Giffords 2010 Congressional opponent Jesse Kelly held a June 12 gun event that was billed as follows on the Pima County Republican website: Get on Target for Victory in November Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office Shoot a fully automatic M15 with Jesse Kelly


Giffords Opponent, Jesse Kelly, Held June Event to “Shoot a Fully Automatic M16″ to “Get on Target” and “Remove Gabrielle Giffords” | Firedoglake (http://firedoglake.com/2011/01/08/giffords-opponent-jesse-kelly-held-june-event-to-shoot-a-fully-automatic-m16-to-get-on-target-and-remove-gabrielle-giffords/)

But its the left that we all have to thank for all the mentally disturbed walking the streets today.
It's probably the left we also have to thank for releasing women from their kitchens about the same time and saying they can run a home as well as a get a paying job. And there went family life and hot dinners with everyone sitting around the table at 5 p.m.

Here is one aspect of this we are yet to discuss
Political assassination for race hate reasons:
Arizona shooting suspect may be linked to anti-Semitic group | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/arizona-shooting-suspect-may-be-linked-to-anti-semitic-group/story-e6frfku0-1225984713213)

Can't think of one that says using guns to achieve political ends is acceptable .Hello again, tom:

"If this congress keep going the way it's going, people are going to be looking towards those Second Amendment remedies, saying my goodness, what can we do to turn this country around."

WHO do you think said that?? The Republican candidate for US Senator, that's who.

excon

"I will fight these bastards every night." Who just said that? Is that what this is about, who has the most violent rhetoric? Let's stop this rushing to blame one side or the other, it wasn't the left's fault, it wasn't Palin's fault, it wasn't the Tea Party's fault, the shooter bears full responsibility for his actions.

"I will fight these bastards every night." Hello again, Steve:

I don't know. I see a BIG difference between threatening GUN violence and threatening to fight. You don't. That's why it's going to continue..

excon

Funny you should mention the 1st Amendment. During the reading of the Constitution on the House floor this week Rep. Giffords was selected to read the 1st Amendment.

Since we are profiling , a quick look as the positions she took on issues would make her an unlikely 'target' for someone who's motives were right wing . As mentioned she is a so called 'Blue Dog' Democrat who has voted counter to the lefty playbook often.
She voted to end the DC bn on hand guns ;she is a deficit hawk ;she was one of the 18 Dems who broke ranks and voted against Pelosi this week for Speaker of the House.

Exactly... she was a "Blue Dog" democrat... if this was political at all, it would have been the far left Democrats whom she upset the most, for not doing everything Princess Pelosi told her to do like the others. Because we all know a true democrat is a puppet to their party leaders who will vote as they are told to vote and never question the orders they get from the party.


And that's because they have every intention to use a randon act... for their own Politial agenda. To Erode the US Constitution to the point its irrelivant. That is the end game for the Democrat party.
But from the very beginning this looked like the work of a single deranged kid. And a day later... it still does. Except to the left wing Media wing of the DNC party... and certain Democrats who view anything as an attack on what they feel is their right to destroy the American way of life. Historic Losses this last election STILL haven't sunk into the heads of their puppet masters yet that this isn't what the people want.

And I see a big difference between campaign rhetoric and patrolling polling places with clubs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGbKHyGuHU), openly fantasizing about assassinating Bush (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0853096/) and openly regretting that an assassination attempt on Cheney failed (http://newsbusters.org/node/11169).

If you want to play the blame game we can do that all day, but I'd rather blame the guy responsible and pray for the victims and their families.

P.S. I also find it odd that the people that made anti-government rhetoric popular are throwing a fit over it now. I was around in the 60's and 70's you know.

I also find it odd that the people that made anti-government rhetoric popular are throwing a fit over it now. I was around in the 60's and 70's you know.Hello again, Steve:

I don't know... We put our pants on the same way each morning... We both like football... I'm sure we're very similar in other ways as well.. But, when it comes to the political stuff going on around us, we might as well be on different planets..

What YOU see as anti government rhetoric, I see as an invitation to gun violence.. Never the twain shall meet.

excon

What YOU see as anti government rhetoric, I see as an invitation to gun violence.. Never the twain shall meet.

First of all, I see it as free speech, which one Democrat is already proposing be limited. The "anti-government" meme is what's being bandied about in left-wing circles. I was also around for the Bush years, was it "an invitation to gun violence" then also?

Due to the fact the drive by media is cusiously NOT reporting on the Gunmans political affiliation... or has mentioned he was not a registered voter... is anyone wanting to take bets he was a registered democrat?

If he was a Republican that's ALL you would have been reading about.

P.S. The paper described the killer this morning as a "pot smoking loner." What should we make of that?

I was also around for the Bush years, was it "an invitation to gun violence" then also?

Death of a President (2006) - IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0853096/)

Death of a President (2006) - IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0853096/)Did you actually watch that movie?

Of course not !

Then you have no idea of the content except for what the right-wing blogs tell you. Here's some comments from the IMDB discussion board for it:

IMDb :: Boards :: Death of a President (2006) :: NOT 'left wing fantasy' or 'propaganda.... (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0853096/board/nest/163623721)

IMDb :: Boards :: Death of a President (2006) :: How many people discussing this movie a... (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0853096/board/nest/161730363)

IMDb :: Boards :: Death of a President (2006) :: Not even about the assasination. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0853096/board/nest/96925953)

Does it not set it's premise on a fictionalized assassination of the then sitting President ?

From people who saw the movie:

The film isn't even REALLY about an assassination of George W. Bush. It uses the assassination as a hypothetical device, through which the most pressing issues of contemporary America are explored. More important, it allows the exploration of these issues in a profoundly emotional way. The balance between security and civil liberties, and the war in Iraq are the most prevalent, and these two things have been done to death with cold, academic examinations. This film offers a much more personal, more emotional... more human angle to these issues.

So the answer is yes.

If you have reading comprehension issues.

I asked :
does it not set it's premise on a fictionalized assassination of the then sitting President ?
And you c/p
It uses the assasination as a hypothetical device,

So the answer to my question is yes. It sets it's premise on the assassination of the then sitting President.

Death of a President is a 2006 British mockumentary about the assassination of George W. Bush (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_a_President_%282006_film%29)

If making such a movie about the sitting president doesn't have the potential to incite violence then I don't know what would.

I guess when the US are proponents of furthering a climate of hate you get what you wish for. Have fun carrying your weapons around out of fear and anger. We'll just watch on the sidelines and shake our heads.

Um... WE have the Constitutional RIGHT to own weapons, the Second Amendment for those who fear reading the constitution and bill of rights... When You, your wife or children get robbed, raped or mugged in your own home and wait for the police to arrive... we will just watch on the sidelines and shake our heads. Because it would be yet another preventible crime... facilitated by another Rights hater.

Wasn't Obama just tossing hate speech recently... by telling the Republicans to get in the back of the bus and shut up... not long after being told they weren't allowed to participate in the Socialized Health care bill they were literally locked out of during its creation.


Let one person Tell Obama to get to the back of the bus and shut up and then we would be hearing the Democrats screaming bloody murder.

I'm not running around in fear, are you? You act as if Canada has no crime, though the overall crime rates between the US and Canada are apparently not all that different (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Canada#United_States). And I remind you that since Texas allowed concealed carry the violent crime rate dropped significantly.

“Get in Their Faces!”

“I don't want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I'm angry!”

“Hit Back Twice As Hard”

“We talk to these folks… so I know whose a$$ to kick.“

( Republican victory would mean) “hand to hand combat”

“Punish your enemies.”

“I'm itching for a fight.”Hello again, tom:

NONE of the examples you use talk about GUN PLAY. NONE of them! The problem I have with the statements I've cited, is they talk EXCLUSIVELY about gun play... If somebody had hit the congresswoman "back twice as hard", it wouldn't be the story it is... But, this guy DIDN'T hit back. He SHOT her with a GUN.

There is a major distinction between the two kinds of rhetoric. It's apparently, a distinction you are UNABLE to make. I don't know why. It's NOT difficult... One remedy calls for FIGHTING... The other calls for SHOOTING... It's NOT rocket science.

excon

I still bet the Gunman was a registered Democrat... otherwise the Drive by media would be making a big deal about his party affiliation, they do it EVERY other time its someone that doesn't follow party orders from the DNC on how the country WILL be run. Damned what the population might think. Their strange silence on the subject tells me they are avoiding it for some reason.

If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said in Philadelphia last night. “Because from what I understand, folks in Philly like a good brawl. I’ve seen Eagles fans.”
Obama brings a gun to a knife fight - Ben Smith - POLITICO.com (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0608/Obama_brings_a_gun_to_a_knife_fight.html)

Kudos to 74 year old retired Army Colonel Bill Badger who helped subdue Jared Loughner.


There was a couple standing next to me and I was speaking to them. When he started to shoot, I remember stepping back a little. I would say he was about 25 feet away from me," Badger said. "I turned and saw him running down the line of people on the chairs. He ran between me and the store. Someone hit him with a chair and he flinched a little. That's when I grabbed his left arm. Someone grabbed his right arm and we got him to the ground. The other guy put his knee into the back of his neck and I grabbed him around the throat. We held him until police got there.
Man with ties to Schuylkill County says he helped subdue Arizona shooter - News - Republican Herald (http://republicanherald.com/news/man-with-ties-to-schuylkill-county-says-he-helped-subdue-arizona-shooter-1.1088008)

Hello again, tom:

Ok, I got it. It's a distinction you refuse, or are unable to make.

excon

Democrat Senate candidate Harry Mitchell puts opponent JD Hayworth in the 'crosshairs '.

YouTube - Democrat Harry Mitchell Places Opponent in Crosshairs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqB4tyvxWKA)

DLC "target" Republicans map
So Democrats can use a "crosshairs" map to target R... on Twitpic (http://twitpic.com/3o8gkp)
(using real target symbols... not surveyor symbols )

Democrat Senate candidate Harry Mitchell puts opponent JD Hayworth in the 'crosshairs '.

YouTube - Democrat Harry Mitchell Places Opponent in Crosshairs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqB4tyvxWKA)LOL! Do you just copy/paste or actually visit these links? Read the comments, especially the most voted up comment.

Why would I waste my time reading the comments on a Youtube ?

Since Huffpo won't allow me to reference their own use of the targeting metaphor against the Tea Party, I'm posting it here:

Democrats Target Tea Party-Backed Candidates On Social Issues (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/11/democrats-tea-party-candidates_n_758814.html)

Now you find all uses of the word "target" offensive? Really?

Yeah... the Kossaks have been scrubbing their site too. Markos Moulitsas put a "target" on Giffords too.

Now you find all uses of the word "target" offensive? Really?

Not me. I understand the marshal metaphor has been a part of our history since... well... at least since we decided the national anthem should have rockets and bombs .

It doesn't offend me either. I told a Huffposer that both sides and the media use such imagery and found it right there on Huffpo... who decided they didn't want their secret out whilst everyone was busy knee-capping Sarah Palin. Even the irony of eviscerating Palin while decrying violent rhetoric is lost on them.

By the way, the award for the most ridiculous 'logic' behind the shooting so far goes to Rep. James Clyburn, who blames it on the reading of the constitution (http://realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/01/10/rep_clyburn_reading_of_the_constitution_egged_on_c onduct_of_az_shooting.html) in the House.


“All [of] this stuff taking place in the Chambers the other day, when the Constitution was being read — all that stuff is uncalled for,” Rep. Clyburn (D-SC) told the Ed Schultz radio program.

Also kind of ironic that he was making that comment on the show of the guy who last week vowed to "fight these (Republican) bastards " every night on his show.

From all that I've read ,this clown has had a grudge against Giffords since 2007... long before the Tea Party and Palin came on the scene. He met her at one of these meet your Rep gatherings then where he asked her a question ,and did not like her answer.

Ed Schultz... hmm... now there's someone who doesn't flame!!

from all that I've read ,this clown has had a grudge against Giffords since 2007 ....long before the Tea Party and Palin came on the scene. He met her at one of these meet your Rep gatherings then where he asked her a question ,and did not like her answer.

Ed Schultz ....hmm .....now there's someone who doesn't flame !!!

Ed Shultz makes Sergant Shultz look like a Rhodes Scholar. THe Motto of his show is "If you can't Dazzle them with Brilliance, baffle them with bullsh*t"