Is the end of the water exit hose from the washer machine needs to be higher then the top of the washing basin of the machine. Could this connection be made with an air tight assembly that will not be looking more like a cut open pipe with a black plastic hose hanging in it? Thank you.
Ps:
I just pay somebody to do this connection and when I ask for a "clean" look and a not open pipe, he replied that "that is how a job like this is done". It works well but I feel like any time the open pipe will clog and I will get all the hot exit water back in the basement. The exit pipe used to rest on the edge of the industrial sink.

A PVC compression fitting, (see image) can be installed on the stand pipe.
The discharge hose will be made water tight when the compression nut's tightened. Regards, Tom

Nu2da, the normal procedure for hook up of a washing machine is to place a laundry box in the wall. This is a 12" x 12" plastic box with a center drain opening and two water shut off valves on either side. We usually set the bottom of the box where your hose inserts at 32" from the floor. That is to hide the box from view behind the washing machine.

I've never seen a washing machine hose directly connected "air tight" to the drain pipe. I understand your concern about the connection being open in the case of a clogged pipe. However, a clogged pipe is unlikely in your washing machine stand pipe, since the water is pumped out with some degree of force from your washing machine. Also, should a back up occur, you would certainly not want contaminated water backing up into your washing machine.

With the information you've given, I think your plumber completed the job up to standards and code.

"We usually set the bottom of the box where your hose inserts at 32" from the floor. That is to hide the box from view behind the washing machine."

Interesting! Far be it for me to go heads up against a father and son team of plumbers but since most washers are 36" to the flood rim and you run your washer boxes at 32" off the floor you not only "hide the box" but place it 4" under the flood rim of the washer. Also I notice you choke the drainage down on a Whirlpool Tub from 2 to 1 1/2" in the drain line. We haven't ran 1 1/2" under the floor for over 30 years and especially on tubs that clog up with hair matted with grease from the soap. You do have a point about the washer backing up into the tub, but most of the folks we answer questions for would rather have the backup in the tub that they can clean rather then on the carpeted floor in the rumpus room next to laundry. Beside the reason for the compression fitting in the first place is to prevent the stronger washer pumps from overloading the drainage system and overflowing the stand pipe. The pump pressures the discharge on past the compression fittring out into the main. Just a few observations from the peanut gallery. Regards, Tom

Interestingly enough in 35 years of business, we've never had a single complaint of a washing machine back syphoning or causing any problem. I never advocated running "1 1/2" under the floor" either. As a matter of fact, 1 1/2' drainage pipe under a floor is prohibited by plumbing code.

I believe my earlier post discussed making the connection between a factory provided 1 1/2" waste and overflow and a 2' pvc glue trap under the slab. Those connections consist of 3 inches of 1 1/2" pipe coming out of a 2 x 1 1/2" bushing glued into a 2" trap. Rest assured this "father son team of plumbers" doesn't install 1 1/2" pvc schedule 40 to a whirlpool tub.

To each his own on what connection he/she feels most comfortable with on a washing machine.

In my Business I do not connect the washing machine hose directly to the drain pipe without installing an anti-siphon valve at the point the two connect together. Without the anti-siphon valve and the drains connected "Air Tight" the water will drain and as it tries to refill the siphon action will continue to siphon and sometimes the washer will never completely refill. Just a thought from a person that has experienced this problem many times.

LetMeTellu,

Would your anti-siphon" device be a washer hose check valve? Regards, Tom

LetMeTellu,

Would your anti-siphon" device be a washer hose check valve? Regards, Tom


No it is an anti-siphon valve that when the washer is emptying the valve closes but as soon as all off the water is out of the washer the valve will open and break the siphon effect that is created when the water is draining out of a "Air Tight" connection at the washer hose and the drain pipe.

No it is an anti-siphon valve that when the washer is emptying the valve closes but as soon as all off the water is out of the washer the valve will open and break the siphon effect that is created when the water is draining out of a "Air Tight" connection at the washer hose and the drain pipe.

Silly me! And here all these years I though that the venting system was there to prevent siphonage. Since a washer lid isn't air tight a hose connected to the drain pipe is vented by the tub itself. Thus, no siphon problem. In all the years I've been advising a compression fitting to make up for a undersized washer trap and stand pipe I have never had a complaint about a siphon problem. Regards, Tom

Speedball 1 you must not have ever siphoned gas out of a cars gas tank, if not I will explain, one you get the siphon to working it will continue to siphon as long as the outlet end of the siphon hose is lower that the inlet end. And this will happen even though the gas cap is off the tank and it is getting all the air that can enter therefore acting like a lid to a washing machine.

speedball 1 you must not have ever siphoned gas out of a cars gas tank, if not I will explain, one you get the siphon to working it will continue to siphon as long as the outlet end of the siphon hose is lower that the inlet end. And this will happen even though the gas cap is off the tank and it is getting all the air that can enter therefore acting like a lid to a washing machine.

It escapes me. What does siphoning gas out of car have to do with a washer pump pumping the washer tub dry? The washer hose is above the flood rim of the tub and I can't see any possibility of siphonage while the pump's running. Please explain, I'm willing to learn. Regards, Tom

After the first spin cycle, when the machine tries to refill, the water going down the drain creates a syphon and pulls the water out of the tub while it is being refilled for the rinse cycle. This only happens when an air-tight connection is made between the stand pipe and drain hose. I know, because I just encountered this for the first time after 10 years of making repairs to other "Plumbers" work. I definitely recommend an anti-siphon between the two.

Well Bigbox, I tend to disagree!! I'm no appliance guy but any washer I've ever had doesn't attempt to fill while the pumps running
I have had a compression fitting closing off my stand pipe for years with out any problems, either back ups or siphon. And out of all the askers we have advised to make their system "air tight" because of a backup we have never, repete never, had a complaint.
In addition I find your statement,
10 years of making repairs to other "Plumbers" work. to be arrogant as hell.
Just who do you think you are? "The plumbing Police?"
On second thought It's kind of nice to have to have a "super plumber" out there to police the rest of us "other plumbers" when we screw up. Sort of gives you a warm fuzzy feeling to know that a "Plumbing Watchdog" is out there to back us up.
"BigBoxjon". Would that indicate that you're a plumbing sales dude from Lowe's or Home Depot? Inquiring minds want to know!
Regards, Tom PS. Welcome to the Plumbing Page on AskMeHelpDesk.

First of all, I don't mean to sound arrogant, second, if there is anyone arrogant I've encountered (in person) it's some of the plumbers I've had to deal with here in my own town who have done terrible work. I wasn't implying that I was a "super plumber" or anything like, nor that anybody on this forum did bad work. I appologize if I gave either impression. Also, on my own washing machine I've had no problems with the water being siphoned down the drain while the pump is on. What I meant was (and what I thought I said) that the only problem that I've had with using an air tight connection between the stand pipe and the washing machine's drain hose was a siphon when the machine is trying to FILL, not EMPTY. Therefore, the machine just endlessly dumps water into the tub at about the same rate as it is being siphoned out. My Machine and 3 others have done this. My opinion was that an anti-siphon device would prevent this. My drain is a little too slow to accomidate the output of my washing machine, so I use a compression fitting to prevent leakage. The down side is that one in a while I get a tub that won't fill up, especially if my wife is doing a lot of laundry that day.
BigBoxJon was just a name, no connections to any home improvement stores.

OK my friend,
I'll not dispute your word. If you say it happened 4 times to you then it happened.
Siphon huh? Let's break that down.
the only problem that I've had with using an air tight connection between the stand pipe and the washing machine's drain hose was a siphon when the machine is trying to FILL, not EMPTY. Therefore, the machine just endlessly dumps water into the tub at about the same rate as it is being siphoned out. (Your words.)
For that scenario to happen you would have to have a airtight connection with no breaks between the tub and the main. Can you find fault with that?
Are we on the same page so far? So, let's say, for the sake of discussion, that EVERY TIME the washer fills it starts the siphon action. (Still with me?)
And that the siphon action will continue until it passes a anti-sphon device or a vent. In my area we tend to vent everything that has a trap and whadda you know. That washer trap has a vent coming off the top end of a sanitary tee.
So the way I figure it's a physical impossibility for any siphon action to continue beyond the washers vent because the vent will break the action. Are we in agreement so far?
About the only way for
the machine to just endlessly dumps water into the tub at about the same rate as it is being siphoned out. is if the vent were blocked or clogged turning it into a closed system all the way to the main.
Make sense to you? Makes sense to me!
Let me tell you how long I've been recommending sealing off the stand pipe.
I started with the old AskMe.com over 10 years ago. When they went commercial I went to AllExperts.com and when AMHD came on line I moved overhere.
In all the hundreds of washer backup problems, over the years, that I've recommended closing off the stand pipe I have had a total of zero complaints. Either about backups or siphonage come back to me. I tend to go with what works and over the years this has worked for me.
Sorry about the "super plumber" crack but you came off sounding like most of your calls were fixing other plumbers mistakes. I apologize if I've ruffled your feathers.
But we hang kind of loose on this page and do a lot of kidding around, (at least I do).
So! Now you're going to tell me how you're going to get that siphon action past the first vent that it passes. I'm shutting down now and kicking back. See you in the morning. Have a great evening! Tom

I completely agree. That's the way it's supposed to work. That roof vent acts like an anti-siphon, allowing air to enter the line. However, in some older homes I've worked on, including my own, built in 1952, that vent isn't right there where it should be, at a sanitary tee. It's 2 to 5 feet down the line, where it was convenient to make a straight shot to the roof. In one other case, I found the vent completely plugged with acorns, I'm assuming the owner had a squirrel problem, backing up your statement. Also, I think it was one other time I found the stand pipe was about 18" higher than the washing machine, and when I lowered it, their problem went away. Granted, each of these cases were due to problems with the plumbing, and if CODE was followed, they would have been prevented (except for acorns). But, an anti-siphon right there at the stand pipe would make it work, regardless, and it would be a lot cheaper than having your walls opened up to correct the plumbing problems. It woudn't be the right way, but it would be the easiest and the cheapest, and it wouldn't hurt anything.
I've always sealed my washing machine connections at the stand pipe. If your plumbing was done right, that works fine. On those that weren't (hence the "plumbers" comment) the anti-siphon is a good solution.
No feathers ruffled. I picked up on the sarcasm of your "warm and fuzzy" comment. Keep it loose.

OK Jon,
Let's put this thread to rest.

a anti-siphon right there at the stand pipe would make it work, regardless, and it would be a lot cheaper than having your walls opened up to correct the plumbing problems. It woudn't be the right way, but it would be the easiest and the cheapest, The easiest and cheapest way! You just came up with what The Plumbing Page is all about. Helping people out the easiest and cheapest way.
While there might be a few cases of faulty plumbing design that could possibly siphon out a washer most closed systems work. I have proven that over the years.
For those few that the tubs do siphon out I suggest adding a wye on the top of the standpipe. The washer hose to go into the branch as a closed connection and a AAV setting on top as a anti-siphon device. Everybody happy? Cheers, Tom

Thanks Tom.