I've had it. I'm ready to send my 7 year old to boot camp or the freakin Jerry Springer show. She is always stealing things from me and everyone else and lying all the time. I do not trust her. I tried to give her a chance on the trust thing and she failed. She takes things from her class mates at school as well. I have to follow her into every room that she goes into including the bathroom because the minute my back is turned she is stealing something or teasing her little sister. I can't leave her alone in a room by herself for 1 second. Not even her own room as she tears the curtains down or damages the furniture. She enjoys being misbehaved too because she gets this smirk kind of "haha" look on her face when she gets caught. And before anyone starts jumping down my throat about parenting skills, I have done everything I know to do. Ive disciplined, Ive taken her to counseling, Ive taken parenting classes. Everything. She has faced consequences for her actions and still does not seem to have grasped cause and effect. I don't know what else to do.

I would suggest contacting a bootcamp. But when I was little I would always have a smirk on my face, but I didn't think it was funny. But this case is serious. If 7 is too young for bootcamp, maybe try some kind of dicipline camp. This child need to shape up.

Have you taken her to see a therapist yet? That should be the first thing to do. She might just have something bottling up inside her that you don't know about. Or maybe she just has a problem like Wynona Ryder. Boot camp should be your last resort!

Have you taken her to see a therapist yet? That should be the first thing to do. She might just have something bottling up inside her that you don't know about. Or maybe she just has a problem like Wynona Ryder. Boot camp should be your last resort!
I stated that I have taken her to counseling. It has not worked. The bad thing is the way she is acting is the exact way that her father acted when he was a child and when we were married so I wonder if that type of behavior isn't hereditary.

Those new stun guns come to mind off the top of my head, but on a serious note Most boot camps are for older 12 plus age groups, but you may want to talk to juv case worker ( and I can't really believe I am saying this) they may have a recommendation on a "shock" therapy where they lock her down for a week or something in detention.

This is about my last resort idea, it sounds like you are doing everything else

Well look I am no angel... but I see one big clue to her possible behavior issues...
Your screen name nymphetamine... well being a parent... and understanding your screen name... is there any chance there was a time when you were not around maybe finding some personel time to do something..
Like I understand what your going thorugh... where do you think this behavior is coming from... children only know things the learn or see...

Wasn't there a reality show on TV awhile back that talked about this? I believe that Fr. Chuck is spot on about being for older kids. Is there a background of mental illness in your family?

Our community has a program where children like this can do community service if the parent so desires. They start at around age 6 or 7, I believe. Projects like Habitat for Humanity, and stuff like that.

Whenever the kiddo acts up they have to do x amount of hours of community service.

Wasn't there a reality show on TV awhile back that talked about this? I believe that Fr. Chuck is spot on about being for older kids. Is there a background of mental illness in your family?

Not in myside. no. As I mentioned she behaves exactly like her father did. He was always making promises to do better by us but it always turned out to be a lie. She does the same thing. He stole from everyone including his family and friends. She also does the same. See I had taken the children and left because their father left us for some other woman saying he was in love with her and they were going to get married and that she would be their new mom. Well some how his family found out where I was, attacked me and kidnapped the children. The police did not get there in time to stop them. I went looking for them and they had left the house they were living in and vanished so I had no idea at all where my children were for several months. The rest of the family acted as if they didn't know either. Before the kidnapping had take place I had filed for custody and divorce. Well when the court date came we all went into the court room and the judge who happened to be female gave my ex husband this sort of secretive" We know something they don't" sort of wink and fluttering her eye lashes making googly eyes at him. At first I thought I was just being paranoid, but other people spoke up and said they had noticed her winking at him and that something fishy was going on, but since she was a judge not much could have been done. So unsurprisingly he ended up with temporary custody. The judge claimed that it was because of the fact that they were in his possession at the time of the hearing. Well one day his girl friend's son was taken to the doctor by his grandma because he kept saying his private hurt him and the little boy had bruises on it. He told the doctor that my ex husband had hit him on his penis because he was bad. So then my children and their children were placed with social services. Social services did not even know about me till the little boy's grandma said something to them so they contacted me. I went through all this stuff to get my children back. I had to take a hair strand drug test, prove that I wasn't mentally unstable, have supervised visits with the social service so they could see how I handled the children and finally I ended up with final custody of my children. So my thought is she probably picked up a lot of bad behavior from her father while living with him. My family is trying to help me with improving her behavior. It just seems like she doesn't care. Counseling has already been tried, but she makes up so many lies and stories about things that happened or she changes the subject. There have been times where she has started to tell me things about her father and his girlfriend and then stopped and refused to continue and pretended like she was saying something else when I asked her about it. I thought that with her not being around him for nearly 2 years now would have taken that bad behavior away but I guess not.

HI, I have done quite a lot of personal research into this type of childhood behavior, and whereas I do not know your daughter, by what you have described, I would say she has either Oppositional Defiance Disorder, or (less likely)Conduct disorder. PLEASE don't give up on seeking help and having her diagnosed - and try looking up these disorders and see what you think. Oh, and good luck. It's a hell of a thing to live with!!

I sound to me like she may have odd ar even be bipolar the things you say she dose sound a lot like my eight year old take her to you docter and tell them that you want her tested for these things because if that is the problem it will only get worse with out help :)

I don't think your daughter needs a boot camp. I don't think it's bad behavior issue but could be acting out of anger. From what you said about what you ex did to his girl friends child, as a nurse, I believe your daughter could be a victim as well. By her acting out and being defiant, she's angry and hurt and scared. Keep in mind, she was taken from her mother, hidden, living with an abusive father, then taken out of that place and placed in foster care then given back to you. She's unsure of what's to happen next with her. If you think about it, that's a lot for an adult to handle let a lone a child of 7.
The stealing could be a reaction to the trauma. Anxiety, guilt, and fear can cause anyone to do things such as steal as a way of self punishing. Trust me, she cares what she does. She's doing it on purpose to get caught.(she may think it was her fault she was taken from you)and we know that's not true.children often lie out of fear. Fear of getting punished or in her case being taken away again.
I think also you are reacting to the stress and in away you too are a victim. Having your children kidnapped, being attacked. Then having it happen all over again in the courts by not being granted custody. It's only natural to be affected by all that you've suffered. Kids are very intutitive, no matter how we try to protect them by hiding how we feel when we're said, they can zoom in on it. You're very angry at your ex for all he put you and your children through. Your little girl can sense that.
What I would do, instead of punishment, reprimanding her, or boot camp, I would hold her every chance I get and tell her I love her. Tell her you missed her and let her know how hard you tried to find her. Reassure her she's safe and that you're glad to have her back again. That mommies never stop loving their children. She'll start to feel better and so will you. Keep in mind, you don't know what your ex husband said to her and don't be upset if she's angry at you because of it.
I think councilling for you and her is a priority.plus she can find out if indeed your daughter was abused by your exhusband and help her get through it. You need to learn about becoming a family again. You've come so far and you are together again. I commend you for what you did to regain your children. It shows your devotion and your love.
I hope this helps.

Wow, I have to commend Chippers for such and excellent answer here.

Children tend to act out to get attention. They do not care if the attention is good or bad, just that someone is paying attention to them. They just want someone to NOTICE them. If she acts out, you notice it.

I also agree that you need family counseling. I believe she may be afraid that she is going to have to "go away" again.

Hold her, love her, but most of all, do not overreact when she acts out. I know it is hard, but if you ignore actions in a child this young, it is likely to go away as they are not getting the attention for the act that they are committing. Rather praise every good thing she does instead.

I know I will get some bad comments for this, but I have seen it work numerous times. If the child does not get a reaction to something they will do something else to get a reaction. If she gets reactions from you for doing good, but none for doing bad, she may just start acting out in a good way.

After all that she has been through though, it is my belief that she needs some intense counseling. Family counseling would benefit you all.

I agreed with two previous responses. However, I think, since you mentioned that counseling didn't help, you shouldn't seek for it again.
Instead, try to work on your own thoughts about your daughter. She needs your help, not your "watching" her. She is only 7! Doesn't she deserve any magnanimity and forgiveness? You are the one and only one significant person in her life who can make a difference: You begin to work on your own thoughts and beliefs about her. Think - she is a wonderful seven year old girl, who had a terrible life experience, who is so insecure and lost that she tries any chances to survive in this severe world around her. Is there any kind of sin she did that would make you think that she is a bad person after all she had? Stealing? No surprise, lying? What else could she learn after all? So, calm down and begin think of your own control of your life. Try to think of how to be or to look happy and not worried. How to look at your daughter with trusting eyes, how? That is what nobody can help you but you and your real love.
This topic is endless but to grasp idea you may read Parenting For Everyone book by S.Soloveychik. It tells about your parental faith and many other useful things. Find the book in the internet.

If you really think about it your daughter is acting very normally for a child that has been through so much instability during a very important time in her life. Normally 2-5 is when children are learning about the world around them and stability in there environment is so important so they can know what is the correct way to act and express themselves and be nurtured and guided and most of all loved. She has had very little of this and obviously very little positive personal attention. Another part of the equation is you mom, let not discount what you have been through either. As chipper has so aptly put it you are very angry at not just your ex but the system and what they have put you and your daughter through. Your daughters anger is definitely yours also. Step back and regroup whenever you can because your daughter needs that calm close human touch of a mother she doesn't know and you both have to bond again to make up for a lot of lost time. She is so over whelmed and so are you. I know you may not want to hear about the counseling thing but a professional, a good one can guide you through the reconnection process with your daughter, you just have to find the right one, so don't give the idea up as there is no quick fix, and this will take years before you really feel that it will work. Darn I know that's a depressing thought, sorry but it can't be helped. Hang in there as even NORMAL kids are a handful, but just don't give up take small baby steps to get you there and start by hugging that little girl and talking softly as much as you can. She needs positive human contact really badly and often. She may be 7 but she is stuck at 2. Give the process another chance and be patient. Take care of yourself

A good counselor is a good idea, however, as you guys agree, it is difficult to find one. I wish a good luck to find the one, but it may take lots of time and wasted money for a woman, who can't judge who is the best. Maybe later, not now, after so much of disappointments. So I recommend the book, which is full of love to children and teaches parents to love. Parenting For Everyone is unique book. It doesn't remind any of other parenting "quick fix" books. And some self-help books with a positive affirmations. Or, philosophical counseling. Plato Not Prozac, by Lou Marinoff.

I agree with abuhar that the mom needs to establish a positive relationship with her child. Lord knows she needs to lknow she's loved and wanted. I do think that therapy will help in the long run as well. Considering what the child has been through, to not talk about it will only repress her fear, hurt,and her angry. Which could result in post traumatic stress. Which can occur in different degrees.

Well look I am no angel....but I see one big clue to her possible behavior issues...
Your screen name nymphetamine....well being a parent...and understanding your screen name....is there any chance there was a time when you were not around maybe finding some personel time to do something ....?
Like I understand what your going thorugh....where do you think this behavior is coming from...children only know things the learn or see...

Um I sort of but don't understand your question? Correct me if I am wrong but are you trying to say that my screen name is where she learns her behavior Idk. You'll have to rephrase what you mean. If that is what you are saying. My daughter is completely unaware that I even have an account on this site. She doesn't even know what Nyphetamine is (which by the way is the name of a song) Her behavior is most certainly not coming from me. I was raised better than that.

I'm trying the counseling thing again, but the thing is I can't afford a couselor that I have to drive her to all the time so Ive asked the counselors at school to speak with her again and explained the past situation to them and how she is behaving and they said they will help as best they can. They are offering me some parenting classes. I know I took parenting classes when I was in school but maybe I could stand to learn some more. Maybe it will help me learn to deal with her better. Idk. I'll keep you posted.

I think this is good step in the right direction. Yes counseling is an expensive deal. But hang in there and keep us updated.

I'm trying the counseling thing again, but the thing is I can't afford a couselor but maybe I could stand to learn some more. Maybe it will help me learn to deal with her better. Idk. I'll keep you posted.


Hi, I usually do not give advice to anyone about personal situations because I know from my own past experience that most outside help really had to come from one's own inside gut feeling. Some times the gut feeling was reactive more than well thought through in my own mind. I increasingly receded away from counselors or clergy help because it did not help the inner anxiety of self hopelessness.
The only way I could function was by self distraction into focusing on applying what I did best and that was technical work. I literally buried the mind into keeping busy working to avoid solving my own issues. I covered up mental pain and not being successful with my family affairs.
I got lucky though. I met someone who saw what I was doing to myself and they forced me into getting back to reality. The lady was a reformed hooker (the state had taken away her child) prior to meeting me and she told me what she saw and introduced me to the metaphysical world of looking into myself. She introduced me to a new environment of people who cared and shared through the view of what the mind can do in affirmations of positive thought.
You are still searching for that group I feel. At least you are looking and persisting to find answers. I am not sure if you have ever been involved in metaphysical teachings of a universal mind as is shared in UNITY churches that do not profess good and bad but profess mental belief in one's own strength as being a part of God in this Universe. Only the mind will provide solutions through sharing in the same energy networking to help one another.

I can list many West Coast non-sectarian church organizations that will help you with counseling and getting your daughters involved in group interests and activities that will give them a different perspective of being part of a safe haven that sees them as special and wanted with unabated love. This will help bring you and your daughter together more than anything else. Do not send her to a boot camp or any detention type environment. It will devastate her more. I know, because it happened to me when I was just 4 years old. So I know what I am telling you from first hand experience.
I hope I can make better sense later on if I get a chance to say more. I really see you as a real good person that has real worth but just has not found a loving support family group yet.
Sincerely, nmwirez

I'm no expert but I want to tell you to hang in there.My friends was a married mom of two with one on the way when he abusive husband came home cracked out and help her with a knife to her throat in front of their oldest daughter. He chased the child into the bathroom and her mom called the police. My friend is now away from this man for about 5 years and is now re-married to a great formerly single-dad. Her oldest daughter still has behavioural issues related to the time spent in her father's home. The younger daughter still loves their father. Dex never thought that the older was his although Terry never cheated on him. However, the second daughter he "knew" was his so she was never beaten up or hurt by him. Each child acts out in their own ways and unfortunately often on each other when the topic of their father arises. Things are getting better though as the time and counselling goes on. Have you researched child mental, physical and sexual abuse? Look into it and see if the aftereffects are similar to your daughter's. Any man who would punish a boy by hitting his penis would likely think nothing about helping himself to a female child. Your earlier description about when the girl talks to you about her time with him and then quiets down sound, to me, like her mind is repressing memories about that time that she's not mentallly or emotionally equipped to deal with. Please hang in there with the counselling. See if there are any kids therapy groups in your area. Find out about abuse support groups that might have info about getting help in paying for the counselling. Please hang in there, Nymphetamine.

P.S. There is nothing wrong with your screen name. I think it's cool. You are probably about my age. I see it as a reflection of a flirty, fun-loving personality; not a drug-addicted tramp. LOL. Hang in there. I'm rooting for you!

I had a little talk with my seven year old today since I have been trying to find out what is going on with her. When I ask her why she misbehaves she normally shrugs her shoulders. This time I asked her what she was trying to get from it. She told me that she wants to go live with her Nana and Papa who happen to be the grandparents of my ex. She thinks that if she acts up enough that I won't want her anymore and will send her to her great grandparents. Nana and Papa don't have rules at their house. They don't believe in discipline. Mom makes rules. Mom is not cool. Not cool at all. :(

I had a little talk with my seven year old today since I have been trying to find out what is going on with her. When I ask her why she misbehaves she normally shrugs her shoulders. This time I asked her what she was trying to get from it. She told me that she wants to go live with her Nana and Papa who happen to be the grandparents of my ex. She thinks that if she acts up enough that I won't want her anymore and will send her to her great grandparents. Nana and Papa don't have rules at their house. They don't believe in discipline. Mom makes rules. Mom is not cool. Not cool at all. :(

Reasoning with a young one takes a third party. Mom-on-daughter is not a win situation. Find out who she feels is that third person she looks up to in school. This is what happened to my daughter of 12. She ran away from home and stayed with her boyfriends mom who did not have concerns over my baby girl. It tore my heart out that no one cared to tell me what was going on until my son called.
It was not easy from two states away to find her and talk with her for 5 hours on the phone. I found out from her who was 'cool' and it turned out to be a teacher/counselor. I contacted him and he got things together as the third person who really settled a lot of problems between her and mom. Maybe this is possible for you. Nm

At least now you have an idea what goes on in her head and have a starting point for some dialog. Good sign that she accepts you and is letting you into her world and feelings. I can understand her closenesss to her dads parents. How is her behavior at school?

Man, I keep reading this stuff and can't believe you are dealing with a 7 year old. (I have a 6 and half year old and can't imagine this kind of behavior.)

When your daughter told you she wanted to live somewhere else, that said to me she is testing you. She is going to push and push to see if you will leave her. That has happened to her already. So, before she can put her trust in you, she is going to test you. She is expecting you to just give up on her. So DON'T! This child sounds like she is so injured and probably needs more positive reinforcement than you can imagine. I don't think you can hug her or tell her you love her too much. I don't know if you do this now, but have you tried Mom and daughter days out? I know it sounds trivial, but having that one on one time could help.
Also, stay consistent. She probably hasn't had a lot of that in the past, that is why she is expecting you to leave her.
Just know that she can't process what is going on in her head - she just isn't old enough to understand. You have the facts and CAN process it and it is probably hard for you to grasp. She is a lost little girl and you have to be her life line.
There are all kinds of resources out there that you can take advantage of - sometimes you just have to know where to look. Utilize your church, school, outreach programs - anything. Get her involved with girl scouts or whatever - something constructive.

Good Luck to you and I will put you in my prayers.

At least now you have an idea what goes on in her head and have a starting point for some dialog. Good sign that she accepts you and is letting you into her world and feelings. I can understand her closenesss to her dads parents. How is her behavior at school?
Her behavior in school isn't good either. I've gotten many phone calls from her teacher about disrupting the class, trying to kiss a boy after he asked her to stop, and being in the bathroom putting on make up (I have no idea where she gets the make up from, because I don't give her any) when she should be in class. Recently though I have been told that her behavior there has improved some. The school sent people from social serivices to my house before accusing me of all sorts of things because of her behavior, but after I put them in contact with the social service in South Carolina and the social worker there explained the situation and told them to back off, they did.

I've seen kids like this... you
Really need to stop it before its wayyyy to late :(

nymphetamine,

Your daughter has potential and I believe if she is given a challenge she will put her heart into whatever she attempts. Try soccer sports where she can kick @zz. Give her a chance, get her on a club soccer team where they will test her to see if she is quick, smart and able to run with the best. This is where she will be able to excel. She has the attitude to interact and desire to be noticed!

Soccer teams are sponsored and have great instruction on the psychology of faking out the opponent, which she would really enjoy. Rod Stewart did and look how he ended up.

Free counseling, camaraderie, and interacting with mature kids at her level can change her around quickly. No mind manipulation, just great coaching. She will see what it takes to compete to win. You can be a soccer mom and get into a great group of people who will not jerk you around. Try it! Forget the boot camp. Good luck.

Hang in with the hugs, it's a process that won't be solved over night. Keep talking to her, and the school counselors. Trying things to see what her likes and dislikes are as far as fun, sounds good also.

It doesn't take much for them to act out at school. My husband and I were having some troubles - when we went to a p/t conference, we were told that our daughter was refusing to do some of her work. She would just say she wasn't going to do it and would dig in her heels. That just isn't her. We saw it as a way of taking some sort of control in her life - where ever she could find it - because she couldn't fix Mommy and Daddy. And boy, did she try. Things are normal here now and so is she.
I would imagine your daughter feels like she has no control over anything and at school she can try to get her way no matter the consequences.
If she is 7 now and you have had her back with you for 2 years - she was probably in the middle of a nightmare in those very important years, where they are sponges and soak up everything! There is no telling what she has endured or what she has witnessed. And if that is all she was exposed to, that is all she knows. She just needs time to heal. She needs lost of positive reinforcement and maybe a project. Like sports or dancing or something that she can put herself into and be good at.
I don't know if you have already said this, but have you thought about counseling for you? You have also been through a lot and now dealing with a hurting child - are you armed with the tools you need to help her?
I know when my daughter and I have bad days together - it is frustrating and I sometimes lose my temper and need to walk away. And whatever I maybe dealing with is nothing in comparison to what you are dealing with.
I am keeping you in my prayers.

I've had it.....I don't know what else to do.

nymphetamine,

I did not mean to push the soccer camp button, I am just saying, get her active into a good environment for her interest and you will follow. If you are still in SC state, some of the greatest sport clubs are there for her. (i.e. Hilton Head Tennis for youth.) She is at an age perfect for learning any kind of skill that will put her first in line as she gets older for scholarships to the college of choice. She will be that good if she starts now. Talk to any woman's college sports coach and they can even help. You are the one to show the way, your baby does not know these things and needs you to send her on an early path. Her life depends on it.

GoGirlGo! (http://www.gogirlgo.com) helps advance girls lives through sports. They supply the motivation and are grant funded to help. The mentors are woman in professional sports.

I was having a problem similar to yours with my son when he was that age. I TOOK HIM TO JAIL. When I got there I made him wait in the car (of course without the keys) while I went on the inside to see "if they took in his age" and told the deputy that I had an out of control kid that needed to be put in his place before they ended up with him in a few years. They scared the crap out of him!! He was arrested, fingerprinted, the whole 9. I left him there for about an hour. Lets just say that after that experience his attitude changed.

I was having a problem similar to yours with my son when he was that age. I TOOK HIM TO JAIL. When i got there i made him wait in the car (of course without the keys) while i went on the inside to see "if they took in his age" and told the deputy that I had an out of control kid that needed to be put in his place before they ended up with him in a few years. They scared the crap out of him!!! He was arrested, fingerprinted, the whole 9. I left him there for about an hour. Lets just say that after that experience his attitude changed.

millec,

In the 'boys' school where I came from, that would make your son a real hero. In nymphetamine's situation, it would cause more harm than good to a little girl. Girls are emotionally structured differently and would distance her from mom because she was turned in.

It is good that your case worked out to the good. Not many do. Nm

millec,

In the 'boys' school where I came from, that would make your son a real hero. In nymphetamine's situation, it would cause more harm than good to a little girl. Girls are emotionally structured differently and would distance her from mom because she was turned in.

It is good that your case worked out to the good. Not many do. nm

Well clearly nothing else has helped and she already seems to be distanced from her mom. Based on what nymphetamine has stated, she has tried everything possible to help her daughter. If spending a couple of hours in a jail atmosphere will do emotional damage then maybe it will do enough to make her not want to spend 10 years there and based on what mom has stated that's where she is headed. I have a female cousin that grew up acting this way, her mom tried different things before she finally lost hope and gave up. She is now serving a 10-15 year sentence because she & her friend thought it would be fun to rob a convience store, the robbery didn't go as "easily" as they thought it would and they ended up with additional assault & battery charges as well. Being only 15 she was trialed as an adult because of the battery done to the store clerk. So therefore I would rather scare the hell out of my 7 year old now then to spend my sundays at jail visitation later on. Clearly crime has no gender so therefore neither should punishment. Should she go through life doing things thinking "Oh well I wont get in too much trouble because i'm a little girl that might get emotional"? I hate to keep talking about her ending up in jail but that's all boot camp is, jail for people that are too young for the real deal.

Before I took a step like this, I would consult the child's counselor. See if this form of "tough love" would help or hender her. I can not imagine doing this to my daughter, but my daughter isn't on this road. This little girl is in such a bad place.
This could go either way, do a world of good or it could just as easily set her back and do more damage. I think this kid is on the edge and you have to be extremely careful not to push her off the cliff.

I am glad that this worked for you, millec. Parenting is such a hard job. You never truly know that you are doing the right thing. You just hope for the best and do your best.

Based on what nymphetamine has stated, she has tried everything possible to help her daughter. I hate to keep talking about her ending up in jail but thats all boot camp is, jail for people that are too young for the real deal.

Let's hope that she tries sports camp first. Nm:)

Is it possible there was physical abuse or emotional neglect occurring while she was with her dad? If so, this behavior could be a response to emotional pain. I know you have repeatedly stated that you tried therapy, but counseling is not a quick fix. It could take years. I think you need to stick with it longer. She has had a lot of turmoil in her young life, being moved around by dad and social services and then to you. Stealing things constantly at such a young age leads me to think she doesn't feel secure, like everything around her might just up and vanish tomorrow, so she feels the need to take little pieces so she won't lose it all again. As far as teasing her little sister, I know what that is like. My daughter can be horrible to her little brother, to the point where I can't see why he would want to try to play with her, but that's the way kids are. I hope you find the solution, and I hope my opinion is helpful.

I talked with my daughter's teacher on the phone today. She says that the behavior at school has improved a lot. Which I already knew because she had been putting good notes in her agenda. The behavior at home has also improved a bit. She seems to understand that misbehaving is not going to get her sent to the great grandparents house. Some things still need to be worked on like the severe lack of honesty. The thing is that now she is lying to try and impress me. Its not as if I don't praise her when she does good or encourage her so I don't know why this recent change. Well at least there is improvement happening.

i talked with my daughter's teacher on the phone today. she says that the behavior at school has improved a lot. which i already knew because she had been putting good notes in her agenda. the behavior at home has also improved a bit. she seems to understand that misbehaving is not going to get her sent to the great grandparents house. some things still need to be worked on like the severe lack of honesty. the thing is that now she is lying to try and impress me. its not as if i don't praise her when she does good or encourage her so i don't know why this recent change. well at least there is improvement happening.

Sounds like things are going a lot better and that your daughter is picking up on your positivness. The lying depends on what is being said for your benefit as you say. This will taper off when she sees your honesty with her is real and she will become more comfortable without having to make up impressive images. Everything takes time to make a good wine, pardon the cliche, but keep up the good vibes. nm:)

Any improvement is a step n the right direction... Please just remember, it took tme for your daughter to learn that bad behavior gave her attention, it is equally as important now that good behavior gives her lots of praise and attention, and bad behavior should get a minimal reaction along with a regular punishment. I am thrilled you have made progress! Kepp up the good work! We all support you!

I wish I could hug you. You've undergone sooo much and managed to put your child first regardless of your own pain. I commend you for that' as for affordable councellling, you can call your state mental health department and get a list of child counselors based on your ability to pay. Plus as the others have stated. You can get her tested at school. Its your right as a parent to do so. Part of her outbursts could be due to a learning disability. Her way of dealing with it is to cover it up with disrupptive behavior.
As for the lying to you, she doenst want to be taken away from you. Lying protects from that. Think like a 7 year old. If mommy knows I did something wrong she'll send me away.
If she weren't afraid, she would tell you out right hoping to be sent back to her grand parents. You're right putting your foot done and telling her she has rules to follow.

My son, I love very dearly, as a form of autism where he has trouble controlling his emotions. Be cause the school system did't know what to do with him, winged it. He went from the school he was comfortable in to a different school. He too acted out almost daily. He even threatened to hurt his private aide who kept getting into his face. I took him a while to tell us he was acting out so he would be sent back to his other school. Once he found out that wasn't going to happen, life became more easier for him.

From experience , you can't give into her. Once you do that, you've sunk you boat.
It's going to take everyone involved to to accept this change and jerry springer won't help. Maybe Dr. Phil, but not that bozo.
You're going to want to give into everything she wants. You're going to filt guilty over what happened to her but you know what, you've already won. You have your children back. You fought so hard and looked for so long and you've won. That alone should make you sleep better at night.
Also I would becareful with leting her visit the grand parents. I doubt very much that they believe their son did nwhat he was accused of for and arrested. There could be a chance he did something to her. Hearing them say that, she might not be able to talk about it and suppress it if she thinks she'll be thought of as a liar.

agrees: I can't go along with the punishment thing at all.

Sorry I was trying to disagree, as I see it this child needs time and a lot of love as she get used to a new environment and the people in it. After she adjusts she will be okay I think, until then patients and love and a firm discipline are the tools to use.

How much time is too much time for a child whose been kidnapped by her father and possibly abused herself. After all the guy(monster) was arrested for molesting his girlfriends child. It doesn't take much to go from one kid to another. She needs as much time as she needs to feel safe and secure in her mothers home. The out bursts and defiance is her way of testing her mom. And BEATING it out of her will only reinforce her fears.

how much time is too much time for a child whose been kidnapped by her father and possibly abused herself. after all the guy(monster) was arrested for molesting his girlfriends child. it doesn't take much to go from one kid to another. she needs as much time as she needs to feel safe and secure in her mothers home. the out bursts and defiance is her way of testing her mom. and BEATING it out of her will only reinforce her fears.

Chippers,
You have given the best advice of all, not to take away other responders good advice, and I back that up with experience of being in a boys school for 10 years. Prudent discipline with honesty is the only way to a child's well-being perceived in their own heart. Nm

I wish I could hug you. You've undergone sooo much and managed to put your child first regardless of your own pain. I commend you for that' as for affordable councellling, you can call your state mental health department and get a list of child councellors based on your ability to pay. plus as the others have stated. you can get her tested at school. its your right as a parent to do so. part of her outbursts could be due to a learning disability. her way of dealing with it is to cover it up with disrupptive behavior.
as for the lying to you, she doenst want to be taken away from you. lying protects from that. think like a 7 year old. If mommy knows I did something wrong she'll send me away.
If she werent afraid, she would tell you out right hoping to be sent back to her grand parents. youre right putting your foot done and telling her she has rules to follow.

My son, I love very dearly, as a form of autism where he has trouble controlling his emotions. be cause the school system did't know what to do with him, winged it. he went from the school he was comfortable in to a different school. he too acted out almost daily. he even threatened to hurt his private aide who kept getting inot his face. I took him a while to tell us he was acting out so he would be sent back to his ohter school. once he found out that wasn't going to happen, life became more easier for him.

from experience , you can't give into her. once you do that, you've sunk you boat.
It's gonna take everyone involved to to accept this change and jerry springer won't help. Maybe Dr. Phil, but not that bozo.
You're gonna want to give into everything she wants. youre gonna filt guilty over what happened to her but you know what, you've already won. you have your children back. you fought so hard and looked for so long and you've won. that alone should make you sleep better at night.
also I would becareful with leting her visit the grand parents. I doubt very much that they beleive their son did nwhat he was accused of for and arrested. there could be a chance he did something to her. hearing them say that, she might not be able to talk about it and suppress it if she thinks she'll be thought of as a liar.

I am sooooooo sorry for all the typoes. I get so passionate whena child is in pain I didn't prrof read my blog. I hope my messege was clear anyway.
Much love and my best for you and your child.

I think that there have been so many good posts to your dilemma that I don't really have anything to say except keep loving your daughter with your whole heart, and it will be worth it in the end. She obviously loves you very much! Nothing compares to mommy, and one day she will understand your struggles and she will tell you "thank you". I did to my mom. You are in my prayers, and I will think of you often! God bless you and your family!

I have a daughter who is ODD (As well as Bi-Polar) I understand your dilemma but you need to also look at your behavior. It does not help a child to be so angry yourself. Remember, children are a product of us-they learn and get their behaviors and genes from us. So reviewing your post I see
#1 your screen name suggests you are sexual hyperactive (bi-polar indicator).
#2 you are angry "freakin jerry Springer".
#3 you may have been too strict "Ive disciplined" no reflection of praise or compassion. "She has faced consequences for her actions...still does not seem to have grasped cause and effect."
# 4 Your resentment is being focused against your child. Please view your own hostility. “As I mentioned she behaves exactly like her father did. He was always making promises to do better by us but it always turned out to be a lie. She does the exact same thing…He stole from everyone including his family and friends. She also does the same”
#5. you may want to consider your own personality disorder - paranoia (Persecution) also blaming without taking responsibility your self- a sign of various disorders such as bipolar, sociopath, borderline personality ”Well when the court date came we all went into the court room and the judge who happened to be female gave my ex husband this sort of secretive" We know something they don't" sort of wink and fluttering her eye lashes making googly eyes at him... but since she was a judge not much could have been done.”
#6 Chances are very likely the behavior is genetic. ODD is not a learned trait. All children are defiant however more likely it is genetic. All family disorders and characteristics must be reviewed. Although you may be a perfectly functioning adult you may have some characteristics that your child has acquired also.
“So then my children and their children were placed with social services…I had to take a hair strand drug test, prove that I wasn't mentally unstable, have supervised visits with the social service so they could see how I ..So my thought is she probably picked up a lot of bad behavior from her father while living with him”

“It just seems like she doesn't care.” This is common to ODD children it can also lead to conduct disorders and antisocial personality in adulthood if not addressed in childhood.

“ There have been times where she has started to tell me things about her father and his girlfriend and then stopped and refused to continue and pretended like she was saying something else when I asked her about it.” Repression and avoidance of psychologically discomforting events is normal to almost everyone. Your child can see your anger, resentment and hostility to your husband, why would she (even a mentally disturbed child) want to compound it??


PLEASE seek help for your child. I understand not everyone has great insurance but trust me there are resources to help. If you do not get help your child may become a sociopath, suicidal, hurt you or herself or become abused or become abusive. Ritalin has been effective to help children with ODD and AHDH-there are alternatives to Boot camp!! 7 is too young and it is not effective on all disorders. Not only that there have been deaths and injuries in boot camps. Not to mention the cost is high... seek professional psychiatric (NOT just COUNSELING) help!!
Sincerely,
A concerned mom of a bi-polar, ODD child
By the way- I have had to acknowledge my own personality traits as well and it helps me to understand how and why my daughter has some of these characteristics. Even though I function and have not had major problems, I realize some things are genetic from me as well as her father.

chippers agrees: thank you for your support. too many people choose to corporal punishment as a method of curling behavior. kids in general IE yr olds are not bad kids but reacing to their enviornmrnt
talaniman agrees: Children need love , patients , and understanding.

Your note on "corporal punishemnt"
ODD children are the most difficult thing in the way of parenting so the norm is not even comparable. So for a normal child I would say no to spanking... here are some discipline suggestions for NORMAL kids
Tips for effective discipline:
-Trust your child to do the right thing within the limits of your child's age and stage of development. -OK with ODD kids (young sociopaths what is their definition of "the right thing"??

-Make sure what you ask for is reasonable. (trying to ask an ODD kid to stop being defiant and difficult... yeah sounds reasonable to me but not to the defiant kid-they are trying to end the cause of their frustration such as when they are having a hard time with a task (e.g. homework, some tasks they don't immediately understand, or a toy or game that they can't make work the way they want), they find that the best way to eliminate their frustration is to stop trying and do something else instead. If they want to do something and their parent (or another adult) won't let them do it, the best way to eliminate their frustration is to act in ways that might get the adult to change their mind and leave them to their own desires and interests. SO changing this behavior is saying change the core of your being.)

-Speak to your child as you would want to be spoken to if someone were reprimanding you. Don't resort to name-calling, yelling, or disrespect. (OK this one is a definite but it is actually VERY hard to stick to when dealing with ODD kids)

-Be clear about what you mean. Be firm and specific. (Yeah OK once again is definite but ODD kids engage you in discussions and arguments that go in circles that you forget what your point or request was)

-Model positive behavior. "Do as I say, not as I do" seldom works. (Yes again understandable and reasonable... sometimes hard because it is hard not to be angry with ODD kids, it is hard not to yell at ODD kids etc etc... )

-Allow for negotiation and flexibility, which can help build your child's social skills. (NO WAY-negotiation is a sign that there is compromise to the ODD kid.)

-Let your child experience the consequences of his behavior. (HAHA ODD kids have almost no conscience and do not care about consequences, as long as they avoid the frustration. For example homework is frustrating to the ODD kid, so they do not finish it. In consequence they get an F and flunk the class. The ODD kid does not care because they avoided their frustration so they are happy.)

-whenever possible, consequences should be delivered immediately, should relate to the rule broken, and be short enough in duration that you can move on again to emphasize the positives. (TOTALLY TRUE)

-Consequences should be fair and appropriate to the situation and the child's age. (It is hard to find the right consequence for ODD kids)

So I hope you can see that Dr. Spock wrote his rules for NORMAL, non-defiant kids without personality or mood disorders. Being the mother of a ODD, Bi-Polar child I can say the only thing that kept my daughter "in-line" for 12 years is corporal punishment... it is nothing to brag about but I am clear to counselors and psychiatrists that we have tried MANY different methods of punishment... sending a kid to their room might work for one kid-but not another... taking away a toy form one kid might work on one but not another... etc etc...

I feel for any parent of an ODD child. It makes you feel frustrated, incompetent, ashamed, bad, regretful, uncertain, sad, depressed, etc. It has been a roll coaster and for those of you (Without an ODD kid) who try to give advice to parent of an ODD child-please save your breath... you have NO CLUE. Sorry but it is so true.

I don't mean to be dense, but what does ODD stand for?

Oppositional Defiant Disorder. And it is important to note this can only be diagnosed by a trained clinician. A child who exhibits the symptoms may be at risk, but it cannot be assumed.

SO sorry-I found this because I did a search on Oppositional defiance Disorder and got here SO I assumed (my mistake) that it was clear or previously stated.
In children with Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD), there is an ongoing pattern of uncooperative, defiant, and hostile behavior toward authority figures that seriously interferes with the youngster's day to day functioning. Symptoms of ODD may include:
• frequent temper tantrums (to the excess. For ex. My daughter would have fits when she was about 4 until she peed herself)
• excessive arguing with adults (a pattern of arguing over almost everything)
• active defiance and refusal to comply with adult requests and rules (For example, when told to do slight or fun things basically they refuse)
• deliberate attempts to annoy or upset people (oh my I could go on forever about this... my daughter was insistent on driving me nuts. They know the buttons to push)
• blaming others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior (my daughter was once suspended for hitting a boy and it was our fault because we are too strict and she is always angry so we made her do it... )
• often being touchy or easily annoyed by others
• frequent anger and resentment
• mean and hateful talking when upset (I called my daughter the exorcist... her mouth became so foul I expected vomit to come out at times... her anger was compounded by her Bi Polar disorder as well)
• seeking revenge (we cannot read their minds but it becomes a sense of mistrust, fear or concern that your child is going to hurt the pets, you, the siblings, etc)


Parents can help their child with ODD in the following ways:
• Always build on the positives, give the child praise and positive reinforcement when he shows flexibility or cooperation.
• Take a time out or break if you are about to make the conflict with your child worse, not better. This is good modeling for your child. Support your child if he decides to take a time out to prevent overreacting.
• Pick your battles. Since the child with ODD has trouble avoiding power struggles, prioritize the things you want your child to do. If you give your child a time out in his room for misbehavior, don't add time for arguing. Say "your time will start when you go to your room."
• Set up reasonable, age appropriate limits with consequences that can be enforced consistently.
• Maintain interests other than your child with ODD, so that managing your child doesn't take all your time and energy. Try to work with and obtain support from the other adults (teachers, coaches, and spouse) dealing with your child.
• Manage your own stress with exercise and relaxation. Use respite care as needed.

If you found this page -you may be trying to find answers to your problems as well. If your child has these symptoms above PLEASE seek help. Children are not always diagnosed properly either. It took 7 LONG and Difficult years (some while not seeing a therapist) to get the right diagnosis for my daughter. I even asked them when my daughter was 8 if she was ODD! BEST OF LUCK!

i talked with my daughter's teacher on the phone today. she says that the behavior at school has improved a lot. which i already knew because she had been putting good notes in her agenda. the behavior at home has also improved a bit. she seems to understand that misbehaving is not going to get her sent to the great grandparents house. some things still need to be worked on like the severe lack of honesty. the thing is that now she is lying to try and impress me. its not as if i don't praise her when she does good or encourage her so i don't know why this recent change. well at least there is improvement happening.
Hi,
Look-I am sorry but I am reading all the replies and people seem to miss the boat here... as well as you NM. You previously stated your child lies. I have an ODD child and yes they do lie... about anything and everything. So I am curios why you believe this thing about her the abuse? I think it is due to your hostility and resentment to her dad (even if it is justified).
When my daughter was little I used to wonder if she was being abused... or if there was something... I didn't think so. Shrinks and counselors to this day do not think so either...
So I am not trying to be rude to you or others who have given you support but this a problem that is bigger or harder to deal with than you think so get help NOW-if the behavior is corrected before adolescence she has a great chance to not have a conduct disorder (antisocial, delinquent behavior).
I believe your daughter is probably bi-polar or ADHD (Attention defecit Disorder).

You mentioned you don't understand her change. Look once again... I tell this to my husband... you cannot understand someone with a disorder... you do not think like them and you cannot get into their head...
Bi polar disorders vary and so do their moods. GET HELP!! See a PSYCHIATRIST. Write down all the things since your daughter was born, look on websites and see what other parents have gone through to jog your memory... write all the things down you can and tell the Psychiatrist.

I have had to place my teen in psychaitrist observation 3 times before they finally properly diagnosed her and guided us to a residential treatment center for my daughter to get help[!

KEEP TRYING! Push them to diagnose her... her behavior is not normal. Those good days are probably her depressed or low days... get her help!! And yourself!

Hi,
Look-I am sorry but I am reading all the replies and people seem to miss the boat here...as well as you NM. You previously stated your child lies. I have an ODD child and yes they do lie...about anything and everything. So I am curios why you believe this thing about her the abuse? I think it is due to your hostility and resentment to her dad (even if it is justified).
When my daughter was little I used to wonder if she was being abused...or if there was something...I didn't think so. Shrinks and counselors to this day do not think so either...
So I am not trying to be rude to you or others who have given you support but this a problem that is bigger or harder to deal with than you think so get help NOW-if the behavior is corrected before adolescence she has a great chance to not have a conduct disorder (antisocial, delinquent behavior).
I believe your daughter is probably bi-polar or ADHD (Attention defecit Disorder).

You mentioned you don't understand her change. Look once again....i tell this to my husband...you cannot understand someone with a disorder...you do not think like them and you cannot get into their head....
Bi polar disorders vary and so do their moods. GET HELP!!!!! See a PSYCHIATRIST. Write down all the things since your daughter was born, look on websites and see what other parents have gone through to jog your memory...write all the things down you can and tell the Psychiatrist.

I have had to place my teen in psychaitrist observation 3 times before they finally properly diagnosed her and guided us to a residential treatment center for my daughter to get help[!

KEEP TRYING!! Push them to diagnose her...her behavior is not normal. Those good days are probably her depressed or low days...get her help!!! And yourself!!
She believes the abuse stories because her ex was in trouble for abusing his girlfriends son.

The girl and her mother have been through hell and back. Since being taken away from her mother, they are in fact strangers. Mom did everyhting in her power to get her child back. They have a lot to work out and anyone who says counseling isn't the answer doesn't fully understand their trouble. Those who say councilling is a waste of time or a gimmick are fooling themselves. There are good therapist out there (as well as ducks) the they do help.
The prime objective of the mom is to show her daughter she isn't going anywhere and is welcomed and loved and wanted. Then once the trauma of her kidnapping (yes that's what it was) being hidden and possibly abused by her own father is taken care THEN she can work on finding out if her child does have a learning disability. From experience, the child is acting out due to what has happened in her young fragile life. The last thing she needs is someone else telling she's got something else wrong with her as well. Kids have a funy way of blaming themselves for whatever is thrown their way. Like daddy did this to me, took me away from my mommy because I was this way or have this wrong with me.
I fully understand what it's like to have a child with a behavior disorder(my son has aspergers) but if he were in the little girls position,I would be making it my priority to make sure he knew how much I loved him and how much I wanted him back in my arms and my life. I don't how she made so long without knowing where her children were. Lord knows I'm not that strong. As human beings we carry lots of labels like wife, daughter, sister, friend but thoe one we cherish is that of mother.

I had a little talk with my seven year old today since I have been trying to find out what is going on with her. When I ask her why she misbehaves she normally shrugs her shoulders. This time I asked her what she was trying to get from it. She told me that she wants to go live with her Nana and Papa who happen to be the grandparents of my ex. She thinks that if she acts up enough that I won't want her anymore and will send her to her great grandparents. Nana and Papa don't have rules at their house. They don't believe in discipline. Mom makes rules. Mom is not cool. Not cool at all. :(


I feel this one completely I hear it almost daily.