Hi everyone, I am confused and what I'm about to type will make most of you think the worst of me - and I think I deserve it and a few comments from people out of the box telling me will hopefully help me become a better person and accept what I have done.
My background: I am 27, I have a good job now and I come from a narrow minded background, I am indian and we are expected to live how our parents chose - marry someone the same religion as me so long as my parents approve.
So I met this girl (my ex) 5 years ago, the way we met was very weird, I knew she was with someone in a longterm relationship her name I will use as P. Now the guy she was with I hated with a passion as a long time ago my sister ran away from home with his cousin brother and I asked for his help to speak with his cousin just so I know she is OK but he never helped me.. After time things were OK my sister came back home (the reason she ran away was because my parents were forcing her to go india and get married to someone she didn't even know properly).
Now oneday I see this guy with P and I somehow find her ona social networdk site, add her and start talking - to cut the story we starting to hang out a lot and for me it was just fun and a way to hurt her partner for not helping me.. everyday passes and we got closer and closer to a point where she left him for me and we were so happy, I asked her if she ever slept with him and she toold me she was a virgin, I knew they were together for over 4 years but I believed it inmyself that she was a virgin because for some reason I always thought I would not have a future with someone knowing they slept with someone I know and hate so much... anyway after a good 1.5year relationship she told me she did sleep with him in conversation and I was devastated, just kept thinking he will tell all his mate stuff like "well I dont care I was having sex with her for 4 years he can have my left overs etc etc.. And thats where things went downhill...
I stuck it out with her even though it hurt so much, i didnt feel like having a physical relationship with her nomore, I met a girl called M oneday at a party and she came up to me, I somehow got her number and we met.. Now this was over 3 years ago that I met M and we started to get along very well, trouble is I started it all as a lie, she was 17 at the time, me 24 but I was so physically attracted to her that her immaturity didnt bother me that much and all I wanted was to get her in bed..
To Add I was a virgin before I met P, I am not very confident and I didnt have many relationships, I felt like I need to sleep with someone else to get even or so I know the feeling im not sure..
Anyway me and M started to have a relationship as she would not let me close to her otherwise and before I knew it I was having a relationship with 2 girls.. this went on for over 6 months until I got caught by them both and they left me but P threatened M alot and if she ever seen M in town on a saturday night she would really bully her until she left and went home.
They actually had a physical fight and P really hurt M badly to a point where M's sister got guys to come outside my house to 'sort' me out.
I honestly felt torn between the two as I had strong feelings for both of them but I chose to try and work things out with P as my parents wanted me to get married and she ticked all the right boxes as she is same age as me, has a good job, family etc etc.
We worked things out but her personality changed, she was so aggresive, always wanted to know where I was, made me stop hanging with my friends who she thought were bad news, I did everything but it was making me unhappy so a few months later I called M to appologise for how I treated her and all of a sudden we were talking again... she knew I tried to make ago with P again ( to maybe even get married) but I wanted her and both of us knew if P found out I was with M again she would make our lives hell. So she agreed to be with me trusting that I am going to end it with P once and for all and treat her right this time.. well I never had the guts to do it and I think the fact that I was still unsure made me keep putting it off, I thought well M is now 20 not ready for marriage but loves me dearly and says in 2 years she would love to get married but I guess knowing what I was like at 20 maed me think I need to get married asap and what if next year she has enough of me and leaves I will be 28 and still on the same boat as I was when I was 24! My parents have said if I dont find someone here in the UK within 6months I have to go india to get married.
I didnt do a good job of it, P's brother passed away and I felt obliged to be there for her and comfort her without telling M about this as she wouldn;t agree and I kept intouch with P without M knowing. I wasnt in a relationship with her but she thought she was the only girl im talking to and we would make things work again once she started to trust me.
Now P used to really put me down after that about my life etc. I smoke fags, weed and drink, and I dont look to healthy either for a 27 year old. she called me a peado for getting with someone so young etc and really made me feel small every single day and that again put my off being with M..
Now to the present.. so me and M gavve it ago and I was ment to end it with P and I wanted to, but she didnt know me and P still talked until a few months ago when she realised we do, for example she always wanted to see my phone and I wouldnt want her to incase P rang at that time, or I wouldn't give her my email passwords etc as I would get emails from P, so I did nothing to build my trust with her and I guess as she kept coming back I thought I could never lose.
Last month she told me she has tried her hardest and I havent helped her build our trust at all and its over.. I mean in the time we were together most of it was a lie and I never even took her anywhere all we did was meet and chill in my car or at her flat at Uni to watch a movie, have sex and I would go back home (30min drive).
I didnt think much of it and thought she would come running backm but not this time..
she asked me to see her last wednesday and I ended up staying there, she told me before I came that dont think this means we are back together, but we ended up sleeping to gether and I stayed there the night..
I can honestly say that night I thought and thought and really felt bad for all the lies and I realised she is my life and I will treat her right and do right by her, I go back home and 2 hours later she rings and tells me she kissed her mate the other day, they were hanging in his room and it just happened, but nothing will happen again.
I was devastated but more so I realised if im this hurt about a random guy how must she have felt over all this time me running back to the same girl, and I told her although im upset I understand and technially she broke up with me before she kissed him anyway..
So the Friday night we are talking as normal as we can and she keeps appologising saying she needs space and maybe we will work out but I shouldnt get my hopes up.
I decide to get her flowers and sent them to her parents house as she was homefor the weekend, now her parents hate me as I cheated on her and the girl I cheated with beat her up and M nver told them that we made a go of it again so when her dad confronted her she told him that there's nothing going on with us and I dont leave her alone, so he came to my house to return the flowers and told me to say away from her as she hates me and made her change her number.
I could have told him how M never left me alone, when we argued she would come to my work, ring my work phone, come outside my house at 2am etc but I knew it would not help telling him that - if anything get her in trouble for lieing to her dad.
M eventually rang me at night to appologise but never gave me her number and I said that to her and she said she will but two days go by she just rang now and again to see how I am but no number.
When she rang I tried to understand how things just changed and she went stone cold all of a sudden and she told me that 1) she's traumertised by P, she is scared to go out incase she see's her 2) the reaction of her parents after I got the flowers which show they wont accept me 3) No trust.
Literally before she texted me a month ago to end it she would always text me saying she loves me, do anything for etc etc.
I have been bugging her to take me back let me this time do it right, but she says no.
I asked if I could meet her and atleast put an end to this face to face and she keeps saying yes but then everyday never arranges to meet me.
She went out on Wednesday night and was constantly texting me, she says I can too but its random stuff with one word answers and she sent me a photo of her with two of her girl mates to my mobile (she looked amazing), I asked why and she didnt know why!
My Gran passed away 2 days ago and I have never felt soo alone, and I thought how bad am I, my Gran has passed away and all im thinking about is M - wanting to tell her so she comforts me.
I did tell her but in my msg I told her I can't do this nomore, she not being with me and texting me just randon chit chat, all I do is wait for her call and hope she asks me to meet her but it doesn't happen. I said to not contact me again either as it makes thing harder.
She did call me and said she understands and if i want her to stop calling me she will.. but I dont want that!!!
She said she would like to be friends and she has realised that you can't make somthing happen, it will happen when you least expect it and she honestly doesnt know if we have a chance as there is too much baggage with us..
She wants to be friends and I said I can help u with your uni work etc like I used to and she said I could go see her next week - but I think she wont ask me herself..
Yesterday I decided to act like I normally would and I called her in the morning on my way to wrk and she was sleeping but spoke to me and we spoke random talk for a few minutes then she said shes going back to sleep.. then I rang her on my lunch and she talked to me then all of a sudden she went in her bathroom adn it was flooded, she said I got to go i will cal you back and never did ( normally she would call me to ask what to do but not now) she eventually text me at 5pm saying " I'm home now... bed rest... my eyes are killing me"
Since that text we haven't spoken again and I am going mad.
I have read a lot of posts on here that I should move on, NC and all that, but what makes me want to contact her is that I messed this relationship up and never gave her much attention so I feel if I try now she will see I am changing... the other times when we broke up like when I cheated she came back to me without much hassle she said to me I know I sound sad nad desperate but if I took you back would you treat me right and I agreed.
I know I know I know I deserve all this, I honestly can't believe I let such a long time pass without sorting things out when I had her there I just didn't think - which makes me think did I really love her and is this feeling just because Im lonely right now?
I think she loved me even though I didn't treat her right, if I can persuade her to give me a chance and I do treat her right we could be perfect.
I have cut all ties with P because even if M doesn't take me back I know its wrong to talk to her..
I think if I love her like I think I do then I should leave her alone and think hope the next guy she meets treats her right.. but I really feel I want her for the long haul to be with her forever.
I know that smoking weed etc has really messed my head up and my parents' attitude didn't help and Im in visous circle I am struggling to get out of, when she was with me and I was happy I didn't think to sort my life out then.. even my friends are all bad influences and I really can't think of a way to make new friends, not girls but guys to get my mind off girls!
What do I do? I know whoever reads this that it seems I don't love anyone but myself which could be true but I don't think I love myself either, I don't treat my body right, I always felt insecure probably because I know if I could do what I did so could they, and I must say both of them are very good looking girls and I myself am surprised I managed to even be with them despite my looks, background etc.
I hope someone has read this all I know it is probably the biggest post but this is the only way you people will know what a loser I am and that I am trying to fix up..
I really want to go see her dad tell him how I am so sorry and love her to bits and would like to one day marry her, I think if he doesn't accept me she won't go over his decision as a sign of respect as her older sister caused a lot of hassle for them with her partners.
Or I think what special things can I do to show her how much I love her - that way even if she doesn't get with my I will have a lot of guilty feelings out of the way.
I have got tickets to go Paris on the 14th December for us two but I haven't told her and I think she probably would say no anyway, do I tell her or sell the tickets? All I asked her if she was busy on that week and she said yes she is!
Do I have any hope of getting her back?
Thank you to anyone who took out the 15minutes or so that it will take to read this story of a cheat and lier who wants to change the color of his spots..
The only plus to everything I have done is that I did not marry P and regret my life forever, but in the process I broke 3 hearts and I believe in Karma and can't help but think the worst that in my next relationship someone will cheat on me..

R.

That's quite a tangled web you wove.

To makes things simple,stop smoking weed,stop hanging out with the guys that are a bad influence.

You have made several bad decisions over the last few years,but you choose to cheat and lie to both girls and your parents.

Your not ready for a relationship or marriage,I'm not going to bash you over the head but your immature and you know it.

Time to grow up and start behaving like a man not a horney teenage boy.
Leave both girls alone,they deserve better treatment.

Time to work on you now and put your energy into making the best future for you.

I honestly couldn't read it all and started forgetting who was who.
I do agree with you that people who treat others badly and seem totally self centered often have 'hidden' low opinions of themselves, and I would work on that. Respect yourself, respect others. The story you told doesn't really matter; what matters is what kind of person you are. Regardless of your parents' orders to get married ASAP, you are still young, and I would explain to them that you need some direction in your life first. Work on your studies or career, your values, your interests outside of women. Apologize to both women, say you are backing off to think, and find out who you are.

Thank you for replying, you are so right and I know it deep down - If I trully love her I will leave her alone right?
I am going to promise myself to stop smoking weed and find meaning to life..

I think the lack of phyical relationships was what made me want to see if the grass is greener, I am so emotional but the weed made me half dead so I would ignore my actions and not think of the reactions..
Maybe if I sort my life out - look healthy again, be a real man, would I be wrong to contact M after say 3 months if I still felt the same for her? I decided to go counselling today I hope it helps..

All that you have said has the common denominator of, no matter what you want, your parents, and either M's parents, or P's parents, will have the final say. No matter which woman you choose, or which woman decides to give a relationship another shot, what will influence your decision, and your future the most, will be under the approval or decision, of one or more sets of parents.

I don't see you as a bad person. I see quite the opposite in some of what you have said. You care deeply for how you have affected people, and you accept the consequences of the decisions you have made. That you, for whatever reason, decided to pursue and maintain two relationships at the same time, is not exactly out of character for someone your age, and for someone with your lack of experience in a long term, committed relationships. I would call this growing up, making mistakes, and being human. Generally speaking, the way to learn what you do want in a woman, and a long term relationship, is to learn from your mistakes, and your successes, and failures. None of us are born with that level of insight, it is a learned skill so to speak, and mistakes are not avoidable.

Learning along the way, and refining what you want in a potential mate, and what you don't, only comes with the experinces you have had. You are human, and relationships involve, and evolve, over time, dependent upon the experiences you have, create, or accept.

What I struggle with is that because you are Indian, and your family is traditional to your culture, and thus their expectations of you, is that it is not acceptable to anybody that you aren't settled down by a certain age. That you seem to be under the gun to be married in an arranged way, in other words, precludes you from deciding not to marry anybody, or marry when you are 35 or 40.

I presume that things are heading in such a way that the decision of who to marry, will soon be out of your hands.

And that I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, leads you to such angst regarding the two women that have been in your life. If you pick one, or the other, then at least you choose, and not your parents. Is this part of why you want to try so hard to re-establish one of those two relationships?

And that also seems sad to me. That because of your lack of experience in relationships, the choice between the two, seems to be no choice at all, because neither of these women worked out. And there are only these two to choose from.

Add to that your idea that your marriage partner should be a virgin, and you were stunned and extremely disappointed that one wasn't, puts you in a position of judging another person for not being 'pure', if that's the right word, while at the same time, you yourself at one point started with the younger woman, with the goal of scoring, which you did. While I realize the restrictions and expectations you have, in a cultural sense, dictate your feelings to some degree, you yourself, still have expectations of potential mates, based on the very traditions that restrict your decisions in the first place.

I'm not so sure that you ultimately have a choice. If what you need and will eventually end up with, is a mate that is picked for you, you will satisfy your obligations to your culture, and your family, but on the other hand, with the (lack of) experience you have had so far with women, you really are judging them with the same values, as those that are placed upon you. Is it possible that should you pick one of these two women that you know, that you would be any more successful with one of them, than you would be with a woman that was picked for you. I say that based upon, neither relationship worked out; what is to say that an arranged one would be any better or worse.

It is easy for those of us not seeped in your culture, to judge and offer advice, but, the situation you are in, is just not about having a girlfriend, or girlfriend problems. Your parents don't just sit by and wait for you to 'find the right one', they find that one for you, and you are allowed a very short amount of time to make that choice yourself, before it is made for you.

What to do? You have alternately alienated both women, to some degree. Under normal circumstances (in my culture), I would advise you to let both of them go, and take what you have learned into future relationships, until you find someone that you love, and love enough to marry. Gain more experience in life before settling down, and when you find love, embrace it, nurture it, and live a happy life.

But, that may not be realistically what your future holds. Your choices are different than mine are, and as I've said, I struggle with understanding how to advise you on what the best course of action is, considering that this really isn't 'just a relationship' we're talking about here, with all the finer points influencing any decision you make.

If it is at all possble for you to just give yourself the gift of a little time. Time away from both women, time away from the considerations you have to make to make a decision. Time to reflect, and put it all into a little more perspective so you have greater insight. I do wish you all the best of luck sorting this all out, and I hope that some reflection will help you make the right decisions for yourself.

Get your own act together, and the rest of your life will fall into place, and you will know what it is you have to do.

Give yourself the time to work on just you.

Wow, thank you very much for reading it guys, and the responses are very helpful..
Just an update from the last week..
M started talking to me more and more, wanted to see my niece for some weird reason so I agreed,my sister and her didn't get along and I thought she wanted to meet my 4 month old niece to see how my sister acts with her.. we went everything was fine and she went back to her place without us having a conversation about us.. I have tried to keep contact as general as possible because I am too scared to hear the truth... She asked me to go out Saturday night and I did, she was drunk and didn't talk to me much just texting me that she misses me etc, so I thought I was back in there!
Anyway without making this long, yesterday again she wanted to see my niece then all of a suddden cancels and doesn't contact me all night.. she told me that the guy she kissed who is her friend has a house party but she isn't going as its too far.. well she did, I went outside her house and her car wasn't there, I rang her this morning and she text me saying she is sleeping and her sister next to her... It was that guy! I kept phoneing until she answered and she told me yeah I am sleeping with him we just started going out with each other last night!! Im heart broken, all she says is now you know how it feels but also that she is still confused, she said he treats her the best anyone ever has.. She told me she will come to see me once she is back and that she was going to tell me today if I didn't find out anyway but I doubt that... I think they have been together for a while now..
Is she trying to hurt me back or is she genuinly confused?!
I did a bad thing, I threatened her that if she doesn't come to see me this morning I will go to her dad's work and show him all these msg's of her contacting me( after her dad made a scene at my house saying leave her alone - my parents are still fuming the only reason they left it is because I told them we are working things out).. she is really scared so I said I'm sorry I won't - I really want to hurt her but that won't make me feel better in the long run will it? And maybe she is saying she still confused as I scared her now!
I even went to the extreme to say I will find her new boyfriend and sort him out ( only because he was trying to get with her while she was with me), she said go for it, he a lot bigger than u! Ouch!

Im 27 I have not many friends and I wonder how the hell will I meet a girl now! All I do is go work and home, I am very nervous and I can't see light at the end of the tunnel now..
Still on the phone with him coughing next to her she talked to me and said he doesn't like it that I'm phoning, he knows I seen her on the weekend... I was acting weak and said I will treat you better take me back and she said "you cant, your not him".
I said OK, 1 final question, are you 100% we are over and you are with him now - she says no ( not speaking properly as he is there) she must really like him or she wouldn't sleep with him she's not like that...
I honestly have cut down greatly on smoking etc all week and I felt I was thinking straight, I told my parent I want to make things work with her aswel and as she went to see my sister and my niece me and my family thought we were going to get back together..

I feel after all I did to her I should forgive her if she takes me back - has this relationship blown up now, even though she's confused has it gone past being fixable?
I have grown up a lot, e.g I cheated on my first gifl because she slept with someone, but with M I am willing to forgive her even though I found out just 2 hours ago that she's sleeping in the same bed, although she denys they had sex together...

The little things give me hope - for e.g I said Ok I will tell my parents its over and your with someone else - she is like do you have too? Its been less than 24hours that I am with him.. so I think she might come see me and say it was a big mistake!


Someone tell me please do I wait and see her and listen to what she has to say and try get her back after all we been through or tell her to be happy with him and never contact me again..

Thank you..

Hi talaniman, please help me, I have read so many of your replies and you are right and slightly harsh with your answers and that's exactly what I need!!

I don't think you are getting the picture here very well.

It sounds more like a contest, or a battle of wills, or some sort of fight to the finish for a prize that is worth, what? Do you seriously love a woman who is obviously involved with someone else? For some reason you allow yourself to be drawn into an all or nothing situation, when clearly there is nothing to 'win', or conquer. You talk of everything BUT love. Love isn't about winning someone, or threatening someone, or threatening someone's boyfriend or lover. It certainly isn't about playing this game where the win is the most important thing.

Regardlss of what she does of her own free will, you have no control over her, or anybody else for that matter. You can't judge her as being a 'good partner', potential mate, and even marriage material, by forcing yourself into her world by harassing her, threatening her, stalking her, and making demands on her.

And should SHE consider YOUR behaviour as meaning that you love her (again, this isn't love), she is no better than you are for making bad decisions.

And I'm not so sure that you even read my post, or that you have taken any advice seriously. From what has already been said, add to that, that your behaviour is bordering on criminal harassment. Threatening people by essentially controlling them with words, and following the words up with very bad behaviour and threats, such as you've done, is, as I've said, not love. My opinion is that you are not thinking clearly here.

Think long and hard about continuing down this road with your rage toward this girl, and her boyfriend, and the subsequent threats. If you cannot stop yourself, and you keep this up, the police will stop you.

Please try to understand that you need to leave this woman alone, and stay out of her life.