What does it mean to seek God? How can we seek HIM?

I read my Bible and pray in the morning. Then during the day I pray to HIM when I am doing nothing or some thought comes to me. In my prayers I tell HIM that is in my heart. I ask things from HIM, yet tell HIM to let HIS will be done for me. Am I seeking HIM in the right way or pushing my envelop?

Sounds like you've got it pretty well covered. "Seeking" God basically just means finding ways to spend time with him, focusing on him, leaning on him. I'd say you're on the right track.

Triund - maybe my advice will seem a little startling to you but I hope you will consider what I am saying.

Look, I think reading the bible, praying, talking with God are all good things to do in of themselves... and we are encouraged to do those things. But I think they are to be done in the context of a much broader perspective on life. Let me explain.

First of all, religious practices like reading the bible, praying, etc. are things that people like the Pharisees did in Christ's day. But he was not impressed with them and he in fact opposed them because of their lack of genuine and authentic belief in God. So you see that a person can be very interested in religion but not grasp the real important issues of life, or God himself. Now, I'm not saying you are not authentic because you observe religious practices. But I am saying that just simply doing those things you described should not lead you to believe that your relationship with God is secure because you do those things. There's more to a life seeking God than that. I'll leave you with a couple of examples of what I mean from my own life.

I have been a Christian for about 9 years now. I started reading my bible every day and I felt guilty whenever I missed reading. I also thought that I needed to pray everyday and sometimes I struggled to think about things to pray about but in order to fulfill my religious duties, I just plowed through it, hoping whatever I prayed was met with God's approval. But after years and several challenging life experiences, my seeking God has become less about fulfilling daily rituals and more about trying to understand who God is and coming to terms with his ways. There have been times in my life (and in the lives of others I know) where praying to God was the last thing I wanted to do. Because God will put you through some really hard stuff; he will test you with things that will leave you bare and begging for mercy. And when you get to that place in life, only then will you know how serious you are about following God. So once you've crossed that bridge, you are not looking at prayer as something God expects you to do because he needs it from you.

Prayer is something that is more like a test of faith... if you continue to go to God in prayer and you have not given up, it means you are still hanging in there and persevering. Reading the bible is something you do to get a perspective on how other people through human history have interacted with God and vice versa. We get a picture of God and what his character is like and what it is he is up to in our lives. But sometimes getting that picture takes time and experience and sanctification…none of that is immediate; it takes our entire lives to work through the complexities of faith.

So, my advice to you in seeking God is the same advice I try to abide by in my own life. You have choices to make in daily life.

1. Take time to read the bible thoughtfully, not as a ritual. But don’t worry about whether you read it every day; just worry that when you do read it, you understand what you are reading. And when you don’t understand, talk to others that seem to understand. And if their understanding is lacking, don’t give up the pursuit of understanding. Trust your own rational mind.

2. Don’t’ be a religious lunatic if you can help it. I was a lunatic once and in some ways, I’m still in recovery. Be authentically Christian, not a religious person. Be someone who loves God and loves his neighbor as himself. I cannot stress that more. We can get so caught up in practicing religion and not interested in actually living our lives where the light God is cast upon others through our living. But I don’t mean shoving the bible down people’s throats.

3. Don’t think of prayer as a religious duty. Think of prayer as going to the only real person in life that can affect your life for good. God holds our ultimate blessing in his hand. Pray when you really need it, not when you don’t need it. [but that’s just me]

4. There’s a time for studying and then a time for not studying. Sometimes we have to take time to digest what we take in about God and try to make sense of what we have learned. God will present us with times in life where we are doing battle with our souls…striving to come to terms with our faith and wrestling with the implications of what we have decided to do in following God. Jesus confronted his disciples with the question: “will you leave, too?” Peter said, “Lord, you have the words of eternal life.” Where else are you going to go? Sometimes we would like to go elsewhere, but in the end, God is the only place to go. But it’s hard sometimes and that is the way it is.

5. If you are wondering if you are pushing your own envelope, try to understand what that even means. What are you trying to push, if that is what you are really doing? Nobody is able to really tell you whether you are pushing something on God but you. But if you truly have difficulty knowing your own heart on the matter, then pray for wisdom from God. I think he does give us wisdom when we ask for it because he has promised as much. Lastly, give yourself a break, man. We can be so hard on ourselves, needlessly. Self-reflection is a good thing and is extremely important. But we must allow ourselves some room to be human, too. If you are pushing your own envelope, just recognize that you are doing that and work through it... but if you are not, then try to push through those negative feelings, too.

In my opinion seeking God is all about understanding His word the Bible. And realizing that God is Holy, and that I and all of humanity are sinners. And that God has appointed a Day of Judgment which is now very near. The Bible gives evidence that day will be May 21, 2011. God's plan is to save a remnant of humanity, and to destroy all the rest. To me seeking God means to beg Him that I might be spared the horrors of the Day of Judgment, and trying to be as obedient as possible. It may be that Christ has paid for my sins, and that I therefore shall inherit everlasting life.

In my opinion seeking God is all about understanding His word the Bible. And realizing that God is Holy, and that I and all of humanity are sinners. And that God has appointed a Day of Judgment which is now very near. The Bible gives evidence that day will be May 21, 2011. God's plan is to save a remnant of humanity, and to destroy all the rest. To me seeking God means to beg Him that I might be spared the horrors of the Day of Judgment, and trying to be as obedient as possible. It may be that Christ has payed for my sins, and that I therefore shall inherit everlasting life.



Why May 21, 2011?

First God is not hiding, he is right there, the only seek we have to do is ask for him to be with us, After that he is right there.

After he is with us, we need to listen to his voice, and follow is word.

Christianity is a life style, not reading the bible, not praying, those are all great and that is just what we do when we are taking a break from our active lives as a Christian

Living our faith, helping others, being honest in our dealings with others, telling others about Christ,

We find God and Christ in our actions and in what we do for others.

Why May 21, 2011?

Lol... yeah, that's what I was thinking.

You know, there is a long line of people that have come and gone, claiming to know the exact day and hour of God's return, only to be hopelessly wrong. The fact that this guy has the audacity to claim a date leaves absolutely not doubt in mind that he is a complete nut job... it was just a matter of time before that became crystal clear.

Living our faith, helping others, being honest in our dealings with others, telling others about Christ,

We find God and Christ in what we do for others.
I agree. We seek God as we look into the faces of our fellow travelers in this life and find ways to be servants to them.

Lol...yeah, that's what I was thinking.

You know, there is a long line of people that have come and gone, claiming to know the exact day and hour of God's return, only to be hopelessly wrong. The fact that this guy has the audacity to claim a date leaves absolutely not doubt in mind that he is a complete nut job...it was just a matter of time before that became crystal clear.

There's some online "church" that's spreading that idea at the moment. Hopefully HSB was being facetious when he cited that date. If you want to check out their drivel, see

Home - eBible Fellowship (http://www.ebiblefellowship.com/)

I haven't actually read any of it, as I'm too old for that nonsense.

Here's a video of 88 y/o Mr. Camping (for your viewing pleasure) --

YouTube - Harold Camping says Millions will die on May 21, 2011 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9acwNHKvoo)

Here's a video of 88 y/o Mr. Camping (for your viewing pleasure) --

YouTube - Harold Camping says Millions will die on May 21, 2011 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9acwNHKvoo)

Suckering me into watching that almost deserves a reddie :p

Suckering me into watching that almost deserves a reddie :p
And I suppose now you're going to unfriend me on FB too.

I must admit that I have been laboring under a mistaken assumption. I thought that Christianity was all about seeking God. Apparently it's much more about ridiculing what is not understood.

I must admit that I have been laboring under a mistaken assumption. I thought that Christianity was all about seeking God. Apparently it's much more about ridiculing what is not understood.
Where is there ridicule about what is not understood?

God reveals His will in the Bible. And yet much of the Bible remains UNKNOWN to us. Shouldn't those facts tell us that something is profoundly amiss ?

God reveals His will in the Bible. And yet much of the Bible remains UNKNOWN to us. Shouldn't those facts tell us that something is profoundly amiss ?
What facts? Amiss about what? You're speaking in riddles.

God reveals His will in the Bible. And yet much of the Bible remains UNKNOWN to us. Shouldn't those facts tell us that something is profoundly amiss ?

It is very interesting line and the date you shared. If that date has been decoded from the Bible, why did Jesus hid the true information about HIS second coming even from those who were with HIM at the time of Transfiguration?

... After he is with us, we need to listen to his voice, and follow is word....

Thank you very much to you and Jake for the insight. I understand what I should be doing to seek HIM. I have come to realization that I have to live Jesus to win souls for HIM, though I can not do it by myself, I need Lord's help in this (John 6:44).

My main problem is still there. How do we listen to HIS voice and how do I know that a specific command is from Lord God and not my own thought or satan cooked something in my mind?

Jesus hid the true information about HIS second coming even from those who were with HIM at the time of Transfiguration because HE gave them the commission to "go into all the world and preach the gospel." They were not to be preoccupied with "the times and the seasons." Also in Daniel 12:4 God told Daniel that much knowledge in the Bible was to be "sealed" even "to the time of the end." That means God has a definite purpose and a definite time when much information that was previously unknowable WOULD BE made available. That time is now.

That means God has a definite purpose and a definite time when much information that was previously unknowable WOULD BE made available. That time is now.
That is not what that means at all! Only the Father knows the time, and He's not telling.

Mr. Camping was wrong back in the 1990s --

From religioustolerance.org:

1994-SEP: Harold Camping, president of Family Radio predicted on his radio programs that the end of the world would happen sometime between 1994-SEP-5 and SEP-27. He said that he did not know the precise day because Matthew 24:36 of the Christian Scriptures says that "no man knows the day nor the hour." He interpreted a reference in John 21:1-14 to the disciples being 200 cubits from the shore in the Sea of Galilee as meaning that there would be 2,000 years between the birth and the second coming of Jesus. He estimates that Jesus was born on 0007-OCT-4 BCE.

That time is now.

That statement has been made by various bigshot wannabes in every century, practically in every decade. And they've all been wrong. There's no good reason to believe this guy is any different.

My favorite was the book "88 Reasons Why the Rapture May Happen in 1988."

Date-setting is nothing new. Check out your church history and then start paying attention to the things that are really important.

Two points. [1]The title quoted says "MAY Happen." That's just a little different from "absolutely will happen." [2]If date-setting is so gosh darn unimportant, why in the world is the OP so concerned about it ?

Two points. [1]The title quoted says "MAY Happen." That's just a little different from "absolutely will happen."
The book title includes the world "may." It didn't happen. Mr. Camping says it WILL happen on May 21, 2011.

Two points. [1]The title quoted says "MAY Happen." That's just a little different from "absolutely will happen." [2]If date-setting is so gosh darn unimportant, why in the world is the OP so concerned about it ?

Um, the OP asked about seeking God. YOU brought up the date-setting stuff. OP made one, count 'em, one, comment about what YOU brought up. I don't see how that constitutes being "so concerned about it." Nice bit of deflection there, but it didn't work.

OK. This response is directed specifically to dwashbur. You're right, I apologize. I should have been clearer. The "two points" comment was directed at YOU, not at the original asker. Are we clear now ? I have every respect for somemone like Triund who seems to be sincere in their question. It's people like you who are on some kind of a "bashing" trip that merit my ire.

It's people like you who are on some kind of a "bashing" trip that merit my ire.
What bashing?

It's clear to me you simply don't or can't read, Wondergirl. I said dwashbur !

It's clear to me you simply don't or can't read, Wondergirl. I said dwashbur !
You don't sound very Christian to me.

To NeedKarma: NEVER said I was Christian. And I don't claim to be religious at all in the CONVENTIONAL sense. There's no reason I should behave SUBMISSIVELY simply because my of my low "reputation."

It's clear to me you simply don't or can't read, Wondergirl. I said dwashbur !
It's a public board, and this is a thread I've been reading since the beginning. You have no right to say who can answer you or not. Dwashbur is offline; I'm online. I am wondering what you are talking about regarding "bashing."

There's no reason I should behave SUBMISSIVELY simply because my of my low "reputation."
What??

Excuse ME!! I have every right to express my opinion. And to direct my response at WHOMEVER I PLEASE!

Excuse ME !!! I have every right to express my opinion. And to direct my response at WHOMEVER I PLEASE !!
I didn't say you couldn't do either of those. YOU told me I could not respond because you had directed your comment to dwashbur.

No, I didn't say you couldn't RESPOND. If you will look back at the WRITTEN RECORD, I WROTE that you DON'T OR CAN'T R-E-A-D. And it STILL looks that way!

Wow, all I see is a lot of anger over a trivial issue.

Wow, all I see is a lot of anger over a trivial issue.
The spittle flying around is causing me to move into the kitchen to cook supper.

Jesus hid the true information about HIS second coming even from those who were with HIM at the time of Transfiguration because HE gave them the commission to "go into all the world and preach the gospel." They were not to be preoccupied with "the times and the seasons." Also in Daniel 12:4 God told Daniel that much knowledge in the Bible was to be "sealed" even "to the time of the end." That means God has a definite purpose and a definite time when much information that was previously unknowable WOULD BE made available. That time is now.

Head.. even I am hooked up to Daniel 12:4. No doubt we are in the Last Days. According to this verse, we are in the times of increase of knowledge. We can acess information easily. We can come to know of a happening in far away corner of the earth in few minutes. This was not possible decade ago. We can access information on the road, in the house, in marketplace, in the jungle, on the water. Anywhere we want. We are in the times when travel is becoming faster and faster. Now people can eat breakfast in US, lunch in Europe and Dinner in China. But this is not the guarantee that Jesus is coming back on May 11, 2011. Keep in mind the verse,"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only(Matthew 24:36). The next verses talk about days of Noah, we can say without fear that those days and today's times are very similar. But here again in verse 36, Jesus did not tell the date of HIS second coming.
Why do you think, Jesus misinformed HIS disciples?

No doubt we are in the Last Days.
We have been since the Resurrection.

You seek someone with the objective of finding them, so to seek God means to look for him with the objective of finding him. The only way to find God today is through his word The Bible. Only in the bible can we read about God and essentially learn about his personality, his likes, his dislikes, how he wants us to live our lives and what his will is.
Prayer is also a very important aspect of seeking God.
The only way to develop a relationship with someone is to talk to them and get to know them.
We talk to God through prayer, and we get to know God through studying the bible.
Also, Zephaniah 2:3 says "seek Jehovah, all YOU meek ones of the earth, who have practiced His own judicial decision. Seek righteousness, seek meekness."
To remain in his favor, we need to “seek Jehovah” by carefully studying his Word, the Bible; prayerfully asking for his guidance; and drawing close to him. We must “seek righteousness” by living a morally clean life. And we need to “seek meekness” by cultivating a meek and submissive attitude.
I hope this helps :)

Wow, all I see is a lot of anger over a trivial issue.

In my case you don't see anger, just a face palm.

I do agree with some of what njab1 has posted. Especially about prayer and studying the Bible. And his reference to Zephaniah 2:3 is most excellent. But let me get back to Triund's question about "Jesus misinforming His disciples." Clearly (at least to me) Jesus did not misinform them. He was telling the truth, of course. God does not lie. He cannot lie. But He can withhold information. Jesus said "I and the father are one. If you have seen me, you have seen the father." That means whatever the father knows (the time of the end) Jesus knows also. No question at all about that. You cannot separate God from Jesus. They are one and the same. Based on that immutable fact we must conclude that "the son not knowing" (Mark 13:32) MUST refer to someone OTHER than Jesus. There is more evidence of that, but let's go back to the "misinforming" issue. Jesus deliberately withheld the time of His second coming because He wanted them to focus on the task of getting out the gospel (the Bible) as it was then understood. There are verses that show that quite a few disciples expected Jesus to set up a literal kingdom in Judea at that time. He wanted to completely disabuse them of that notion. His kingdom was coming at some future time yet indefinite FOR THEM.

We have been since the Resurrection.

With all due respect Wonder, we are in the time of Last Days. Now this period ends in 3 months, 2 years, 50 years, 1000 years, only God the Father knows. Things I am looking for are from Joel Rosenberg`s talks. 2nd Thessolonians chapter 2 talks about the Antichrist entering the Temple and descreting it and claiming himself to be God. Third Jewish Temple is not built yet. Another thing is that HIS name is still not reached to all on the earth, though missionaries are reaching to more and more people. There are other things too which tell us that we are in the slot of Last Days. But in spite of this calculation, I have not forgotten that whether HE comes first or calls me Home first, in either case I have to be ready to meet HIM.

Head, could you please share the verse which tells about May 2011.

I have to be ready to meet HIM.
Doing things according to the Book of Revelation or making things happen according to that book does not help you get "ready to meet Him." That book has nothing to do with our salvation or with the Last Day. It barely squeaked into the NT canon and made it in by the skin of its teeth. It's written in code, and we don't have the key to open the code. It's usefulness has ended.

We are in the Last Times now and have been since Jesus rose from the dead.

Doing things according to the Book of Revelation or making things happen according to that book does not help you get "ready to meet Him." That book has nothing to do with our salvation or with the Last Day. It barely squeaked into the NT canon and made it in by the skin of its teeth. It's written in code, and we don't have the key to open the code. It's usefulness has ended.

We are in the Last Times now and have been since Jesus rose from the dead.

I have to disagree about Revelation's usefulness, but its message is about perseverance, not some kind of secret way to be part of the "in" crowd. That said, John's epistles say in so many words that the "last days" began with Jesus' resurrection, since he says that he and the letters' recipients are in the "last days."

If Christians spent as much time and energy evangelizing and getting their own spiritual houses in order as they do arguing over this kind of nonsense, the world wouldn't have so many good reasons to laugh at us.

If Christians spent as much time and energy evangelizing and getting their own spiritual houses in order
That's what I do before 6 P.M.

Quoting Triund:
Head, could you please share the verse which tells about May 2011.
Genesis 7:11 says:"...in the second month the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains..." The second month and the seventeenth day of that month refers to the Hebrew calendar. Go to any online calendar converter and enter that information into the Hebrew calendar. Click on the button to convert to our calendar and it will say May 21.

To get the year is somewhat more involved. It began with the "begats" in the book of Genesis. Adding the times from generation to generation, with some careful interpretation, the result is that the year of the Great Flood was found to be 4990 BC. That date was published in a book over 20 years ago by Mr. Camping. Next 2 Peter 3:8 tells us (in the context of "the day of the Lord") that one day is as 1000 years, and 1000 years is as one day. Going to Genesis 7:4 and 10 we see that God gave Noah seven days warning before starting the flood. Applying one day is as 1000 years to 7 days we get 7000 years. Adding 7000 years to 4990 BC we get 2010 AD. But there is no year "zero." Therefore the actual result will be 2011 AD.

All of the above is what I would call "the raw data." There is MUCH supporting information from the Bible that needs to be CAREFULLY examined to verify the date. All of that voluminous detail has been published and is available FREE in book form or online.

All of the above is what I would call "the raw data." There is MUCH supporting information from the Bible that needs to be CAREFULLY examined to verify the date. All of that voluminous detail has been published and is available FREE in book form or online.
And false prophets have used all sorts of gimmicks and formulas to come up with a date for the end of the world, All were wrong. We'll see you here on the 22nd of May?

Quoting Triund:
Head, could you please share the verse which tells about May 2011.
Genesis 7:11 says:"...in the second month the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains..." The second month and the seventeenth day of that month refers to the Hebrew calendar. Go to any online calendar converter and enter that information into the Hebrew calendar. Click on the button to convert to our calendar and it will say May 21.

You have a bit of a problem here, because the Hebrew calendar is lunar, not solar. So this particular day would come out different each year in our calendar. That's why to this day, Passover and Rosh Hashanah are on different dates every year.


To get the year is somewhat more involved. It began with the "begats" in the book of Genesis. Adding the times from generation to generation, with some careful interpretation, the result is that the year of the Great Flood was found to be 4990 BC. That date was published in a book over 20 years ago by Mr. Camping. Next 2 Peter 3:8 tells us (in the context of "the day of the Lord") that one day is as 1000 years, and 1000 years is as one day. Going to Genesis 7:4 and 10 we see that God gave Noah seven days warning before starting the flood. Applying one day is as 1000 years to 7 days we get 7000 years. Adding 7000 years to 4990 BC we get 2010 AD. But there is no year "zero." Therefore the actual result will be 2011 AD.

Another problem: our calendar is somewhere between 4 and 6 years off from the actual year of Jesus' birth, and hence is going to be that far off from the purported date of the flood. So by this reckoning, the events Mr. Camping is expecting should have already happened, around 3-5 years ago.

So as WG said, we'll see you here on May 22. Just do yourself a favor and don't give up on God when it doesn't happen; see my sig line.

Yes, dwashbur is correct. I made an error. I should have specified that May 21, 2011 turns out to be the 17th day of the second month of the Hebrew calendar in the year 2011.

But as far as the year, there is no error. Jesus was born in 7 BC which is a biblical "Jubilee Year." Jubilee Years occur once every 50 years. And that fact has already been taken into account in all of the considerations that resulted in the year 2011. Further, the differences in calendars does not play any role as far as the year is concerned because the length of the solar year as 365.2422 days has been used to arrive at the date.

Yes, dwashbur is correct. I made an error. I should have specified that May 21, 2011 turns out to be the 17th day of the second month of the Hebrew calendar in the year 2011.

But as far as the year, there is no error. Jesus was born in 7 BC which is a biblical "Jubilee Year." Jubilee Years occur once every 50 years. And that fact has already been taken into account in all of the considerations that resulted in the year 2011. Further, the differences in calendars does not play any role as far as the year is concerned because the length of the solar year as 365.2422 days has been used to arrive at the date.

We don't actually know what year Jesus was born. If you can produce evidence to the contrary, I'd like to see it as long as it' s based on something concrete, like an archaeological find, and not the biblical eisegesis of some self-appointed prophet.

And the solar year is actually 364.2422 days, which is why we have a leap day every 4 years.

Keep digging the hole deeper, this is getting interesting.

dwashbur: And the solar year is actually 364.2422 days, which is why we have a leap day every 4 years.

Your information is wrong. If you're going to argue at least get your facts straight.

A solar year has 365.2422 days. You can check this against any online encyclopedia.

Your information is wrong. If you're going to argue at least get your facts straight.

A solar year has 365.2422 days. You can check this against any online encyclopedia.

Oops. Definitely a bit of cepahlic flatus there. I stand corrected.

Fr_Chuck
First God is not hiding, he is right there...

I disagree. And I can show from the Bible that God does indeed hide from us in various ways and at various times. And a big point is... If He were "right there" as you claim,. then why on Earth would we need to seek Him ?

then why on Earth would we need to seek Him ?
"Seek" doesn't mean "look for Him because He's in hiding."

Quoting HeadStrongBoy: then why on Earth would we need to seek Him ? "Seek" doesn't mean "look for Him because He's in hiding."

Do you really think that I'm that simple minded ?

[1] First I know that the Bibles we normally read are mere translations. So the word seek in English most likely has other possible meanings (and shades of meaning) that have not been chosen by the translators. Ever hear the phrase "lost in translation" ?
[2] Yes, on some LEVEL God is absolutely hiding from the whole human race. It's because of a little thing, not very important really... sin. Remember sin ? We all have it. Even the most holy born again Christian still has to struggle with his (or her) sin nature. There's no getting away from it. Of course we can delude ourselves. Many people today do not even consider the possibility that sin is real. It' not popular.

So yes, God absolutely does hide Himself from sin and from sinners. Yes even in our sophisticated day and age. God has not changed in that way.

Do you really think that I'm that simple minded ?
NEVER would I think that!


So yes, God absolutely does hide Himself from sin and from sinners. Yes even in our sophisticated day and age. God has not changed in that way.
I am a (redeemed) sinner. Why isn't He hiding from me?

WG

I am a (redeemed) sinner. Why isn't He hiding from me?

Yes, I know that you have the free will to think of yourself as anything that you desire. It's called the power of imagination.

But, from my perspective, your behavior more closely resembles that of a cat playing with a mouse. Your choice of icon is very apropos.

WG


Yes, I know that you have the free will to think of yourself as anything that you desire. It's called the power of imagination.
Thanks to God's love and care, I emotionally and physically survived severe anemia and breast cancer during the past year. No imagination here!

But, from my perspective, your behavior more closely resembles that of a cat playing with a mouse. Your choice of icon is very apropos.
Why are you dissing me?

That "icon" (it's actually called an avatar) is a reminder of Thomas Jefferson, my beloved cat who died two years ago. My "signature," visible on the old skin, is "Rest in peace, Thomas Jefferson -- July 4, 1994-March 5, 2009."

This thread at first made me intrigued and then I got sad. So sad.

I have always known God, though I have lost touch from time to time (selfish teen, selfish times as an adult) but I always want to improve myself. When I feel like I am missing God, it's because I have been selfish, I have been lazy. There has never been a moment, regardless of how wicked I had been, that I couldn't dig deep and ask if God could hear me. He always hears me, no matter how small I am. That's comforting if nothing else.

Why all the drama over the day of reckoning? When it happens, it will happen. Whether I'm judged in life or in the afterlife, I'm going to be judged. I have so many issues with my own selfishness and worldly obsessions that I seriously just don't have the time to preach to everyone else about what the bible does and doesn't say (dang it more selfishness).

My pastor once told me when I was struggling with my judging ways that "sin should be a mirror that we use to measure ourselves, not a spotlight that we shine on others."

I'm thrilled for anyone who is on a journey to seek God. As long as they don't stand in the way of someone else's journey, what right have I to stop them? I don't know that my version of things is going to get me the golden ticket, but I sure do pray it will!

WG
Why are you dissing me?

I thought you could handle it. Yesterday you showed extraordinary spiritual strength by quoting all those verses about how salvation is NOT OSAS. And you seemed to accept my compliment about how much better you are with the Bible than I am.

What happened today ? Today you're all vulnerable and hurt?? What happened to the extraordinary fortitude you showed testerday ? :eek:

WG

I thought you could handle it.
I see. The thing is, the dissing reflects on you more than on me. I don't feel "all vulnerable and hurt," but my opinion of you did a u-turn.

WG
I am a (redeemed) sinner. Why isn't He hiding from me?
I'm sorry that you're feeling vulnerable today.;)

But here's more about God hiding, for the original posting of the question about seeking God. God in His true nature is so glorious and so majestic that unprepared sinners cannot be in His presence without being destroyed. When Moses asked to see God's glory, God had to hide Moses in the cleft of a rock. Then YHWH passed by and allowed Moses to see just the edge of His glory. We are still part of that generation of wickedness that cannot have total and complete fellowship with the fullness of God's glory. Only after we've been born again AND have also received our new eternal spiritual bodies in the rapture, THEN and only then will God appear to us in His full glory. Until that day, much of God remains hidden to us.

WG
I'm sorry that you're feeling vulnerable today.;)
And I'm so sorry that God is hiding from you today. :(

WG
I don't feel "all vulnerable and hurt," but my opinion of you did a u-turn.

You're only confirming my original observation about the cat and mouse scenario.

WG
And I'm so sorry that God is hiding from you today

I acknowledge the importance of PROTOCOL !

Allow me to observe that we seem to be going in different directions. There is a huge distinction between seeing God face to face and having knowledge about Him gained from Bible study and prayer.

Though with the often careless and imprecise way we utilize language (and words) the one (face to face) could be loosely defined as seeking and finding God.

And the other (Bible knowledge) can also be loosely defined as seeking and finding God.


However the fact remains that seeing God face to face IS NOT THE SAME AS Bible knowledge of God.

O.K.

WG

However the fact remains that seeing God face to face IS NOT THE SAME AS Bible knowledge of God.
Neither of those is what I'm talking about.

WG
Neither of those is what I'm talking about.

In that case I can only guess. But based on what you revealed about yourself earlier (anemia, cancer) I would venture to say that you're referring to the physical (material) blessings, including healing their illnesses, that God very generously gives to many, many people. Even to those He has no intention of saving.

However, all of that in my opinion, should not be considered as part of God's gospel of salvation, which is completely spiritual.

The Church should be viewed more like a hospital than a club. Welcome anyone who is sick, we are not the doctors but we know Him. We cannot judged because we have not been judged... but forgiven.

WG

In that case I can only guess. But based on what you revealed about yourself earlier, I would venture to say that you're referring to the physical (material) blessings
I mentioned physical, but also mentioned emotional, i.e. spiritual.

God is a very constant Presence in my life, and I see His face in all the faces I encounter
Each day.

(I see "someone," perhaps a very hurt and vulnerable someone? NOT! taught you how to use colors in the text.)

Southamerica
I'm thrilled for anyone who is on a journey to seek God.

Me too. I'm very thrilled. Though my reasons may be somewhat different from your kind of thrill. In keeping to the purpose of this thread... I wish to say that the phrase "seeking God" means to me, seeking not the material blessings of this life, but rather seeking humility, seeking meekness, so that God will notice that my desire for salvation is genuine. The Bible clearly states that "God resists the proud, but gives grace (grace is a synonym for salvation) to the humble." The truly humble person will be open to learn everything they can from God's word the Bible.



The Church should... Welcome anyone who is sick, There is much spiritual evidence in the Bible that God has commanded believers to get out of the churches because Satan is ruling there. That will all come to an end May 21, 2011.

southamerica

Me too. I'm very thrilled. Though my reasons may be somewhat different from your kind of thrill. In keeping to the purpose of this thread...I wish to say that the phrase "seeking God" means to me, seeking not the material blessings of this life, but rather seeking humility, seeking meekness, so that God will notice that my desire for salvation is genuine. The Bible clearly states that "God resists the proud, but gives grace (grace is a synonym for salvation) to the humble." The truly humble person will be open to learn everything they can from God's word the Bible.


There is much spiritual evidence in the Bible that God has commanded believers to get out of the churches because Satan is ruling there. That will all come to an end May 21, 2011.

I don't judge, but it is not difficult to feel the presence of people who try to do good-regardless of what they seek.

My dad always said that when people gather to discuss God, that is a church. When dad and I would go on hikes in the mountains-that was my church. Days full of talking about life, God, and generally feeling full of God's love. Those were good days. My "church" is always in nature (and I don't mean that I worship nature... haha).

WG
God is a very constant Presence in my life

Nice!!

Your sentence which I have quoted above is, to me, a simple statement of absolute fact. In other words, like gravity, God is present everyplace He chooses to be. Theologians call that omnipresent. But there I would draw a very sharp line. His presence or His absence has nothing whatever to do with my perception of it, or how I feel about it. It simply is. By no stretch of the imagination (or anything else) does that now mean that I have found God because I was seeking Him. The Bible describes God as being full of eyes, in Ezekiel. And the Bible describes the area surrounding His throne as a sea of glass, in Revelation. Those two metaphors indicate that God sees everything in the universe simultaneously and clearly. A totally mind boggling concept to us humans. But it hints that He is also present, or at least projects His power everywhere at the same time. He is "upholding all things by the word of His power." (Hebrews 1:3) Even if He does not allow us to be particularly intimate with His glory.

the phrase "seeking God" means to me, seeking not the material blessings of this life, but rather seeking humility, seeking meekness, so that God will notice that my desire for salvation is genuine.
That sounds very much like the Pharisees of the NT. God has already given us salvation. What God wants now is for us to desire and provide for the wellbeing and care of "the least of these" (Matt. 25:40). That's what Jesus said is the Second Greatest Commandment: Love others. Obeying that commandment is our thank-you to God for His love and grace in saving us from eternal death.

feel
I may end up shooting myself for having showed you how to do that.

I have found God because I was seeking Him.
We don't find God; He finds us.

I don't judge, but it is not difficult to feel the presence of people who try to do good-regardless of what they seek. My dad always said that when people gather to discuss God, that is a church. When dad and I would go on hikes in the mountains-that was my church. Days full of talking about life, God, and generally feeling full of God's love. Those were good days. My "church" is always in nature (and I don't mean that I worship nature... haha).

I can empathize and understand how you feel. Both my parents come from a European and artistic background with a deep appreciation for the charms of nature. And they made every reasonable effort to share their love of that culture with their children.

However, as wonderful and as loving as that was, it is no substitute for the Holy Bible, God's word to us. The Bible defines a church by three very specific traits.
[1] A hierarchy of spiritual overseers, elders, deacons, pastors, teachers, etc.
[2] A membership that must be fed with God's word, and that can be disciplined by acts such as excommunication.
[3] It must offer the ceremonial rites of water baptism and the Lord's table (communion).

Unless those three criteria are met, it is not a church by the standards of the Holy Bible.

I can empathize and understand how you feel. Both my parents come from a European and artistic background with a deep appreciation for the charms of nature. And they made every reasonable effort to share their love of that culture with their children.

However, as wonderful and as loving as that was, it is no substitute for the Holy Bible, God's word to us. The Bible defines a church by three very specific traits.
[1] A hierarchy of spiritual overseers, elders, deacons, pastors, teachers, etc.
[2] A membership that must be fed with God's word, and that can be disciplined by acts such as excommunication.
[3] It must offer the ceremonial rites of water baptism and the Lord's table (communion).

Unless those three criteria are met, it is not a church by the standards of the Holy Bible.
I guess I'll take my chances :)

The Bible defines a church by three very specific traits.
[1] A hierarchy of spiritual overseers, elders, deacons, pastors, teachers, etc.
[2] A membership that must be fed with God's word, and that can be disciplined by acts such as excommunication.
[3] It must offer the ceremonial rites of water baptism and the Lord's table (communion).

Unless those three criteria are met, it is not a church by the standards of the Holy Bible.
Whew! The LCMS qualifies!! Yay!!

What about Matt. 18:20, "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them"?

WG
We don't find God; He finds us.

Exactly!!

But one of the rules of this site is that as long as we are on a thread that stems from a question, we should make every reasonable effort to continue to service that original question. All other comments and general conversation belongs in an area called Member Dicussions board.

So while I do agree, that for the purposes of salvation it is God who finds us, this question is about us seeking God.

So while I do agree, that for the purposes of salvation it God who finds us, this question is about us seeking God.
Our seeking God is part of Sanctification. I said we seek God in the faces of all those around us, ministering to the least among us.

WG
God has already given us salvation.

Who in the wide wide world of sports is... US ?

Excuse me!! But your statement above seems to me the height of arrogance and presumption. Or maybe you just don't really grasp what salvation is all about.

And salvation has everything to do with seeking God, in my opinion. Although our seeking it in no way guarantees anything. Nevertheless it is the one overriding and compellingly urgent reason why we should continue to seek God.

WG
Our seeking God is part of Sanctification. I said we seek God in the faces of all those around us, ministering to the least among us.

I don't give two hoots about what you said.

It's what the Bible says that counts.

WG

I don't give two hoots what you said.

It's what the Bible says that counts.
I already quoted the Bible. None of this is from me.

WG
I already quoted the Bible. None of this is from me.

We are on this thread presumably because we are servicing the askers question. Yet you seem to keep retreating to a world of your own. If you are tired of discussing how we can seek God, and giving reasonable effort to corroborating your statements, then maybe you should take some personal time out.

Southamerica
I guess I'll take my chances :)

I too take my chances. :cool:

you should take some personal time out.
I hereby unsubscribe to this thread.

WG

We are on this thread presumably because we are servicing the askers question. Yet you seem to keep retreating to a world of your own. If you are tired of discussing how we can seek God, and giving reasonable effort to corroborating your statements, then maybe you should take some personal time out.

You said only the Bible counts; she pointed out that she has already quoted the Bible, and then you descended into personal attack. It seems to me WG has made her case and you just keep dodging.

Dwashbur
It seems to me WG has made her case...

I have a new pespective on how this site is managed, and I fully intend to abide by the policy of servicing the original asker's question. And not allowing myself to be sucked into personal (or otherwise) debates.

Wondergirl said:
Our seeking God is part of Sanctification. That's WG's latest statement on the issue of seeking God. Right now this minute I'm not going to go looking all over this site to find any Bible verses she may have given to support that assertion.

I'm saying that the assertion she made should not be left standing by itself like it is. She should have immediately included at least one good Bible reference to support her sentence. Anyone can make any assertions they please, as far as I'm concerened. But here we're trying to help answer a question and hopefully supply some food for thought and also possibly some corroboration for our claims.

dwashbur


Wondergirl said: That's WG's latest statement on the issue of seeking God. Right now this minute I'm not going to go looking all over this site to find any Bible verses she may have given to support that assertion.

I'm saying that the assertion she made should not be left standing by itself like it is. She should have immediately included at least one good Bible reference to support her sentence. Anyone can make any assertions they please, as far as I'm concerened. But here we're trying to help answer a question and hopefully supply some food for thought and also possibly some corroboration for our claims.

So, she already gave her biblical references for such things, but because you don't feel like going to find them (apparently didn't notice them the first time?), she should reinvent the wheel. Wow. I'm out of this discussion as well.

An excellent Bible verse that directly speaks to the issue of our seeking God is found in Zephaniah 2:3.

"Seek ye YHWH all ye meek of the Earth which have wrought His judgment. Seek righteousness. Seek meekness. It may be ye shall be hid in the day of YHWH's anger."

HSB,

Do you go back and read the things you say to people? You are rude and proud. Or were you too busy being obnoxious to notice . WG was being nice to you.

You keep offending everyone and they will leave the threads... then you won't have anyone to share that wealth of knowledge in your bonehead... errrr.. I mean headstrong mind of yours. So knock it off. Lest you are left with no one to discuss with.

Yes the Bible itself says that God gives grace to the humble, and He resists the proud.

Therefore, to put oneself into an environment where God is saving, we should strive to be as humble as possible toward God. And if that means stepping on a few toes, here and there, so be it.

The point is that we should obey God, and fear God rather than fear displeasing people.

The earthquake in Japan is just another preview of the grand-daddy of all earthquakes that's coming May 21, 2011. Repent... now while there is still time.

The tsunami that hit Japan is an indicator of what an 8.8 earthquake is capable of. And an earthquake is an indicator of plate tectonics. Plate tectonics are a part of the geology of the Earth.

Okay I'm not much of a scientist AT ALL but I at least know that there are physical reasons earthquakes and tsunamis happen.

My heart aches for Japan and those who lost homes and loved ones. I pray for their healing.

I am sorry to have revisited this thread, I just do not like it when people use natural disasters or terrorism as a reason to say people must repent.

I'm not much of a scientist either. But this thread is about seeking God. And God is in charge of all things, including plate tectonics.

So, I'd say it's not much of a stretch to presume God is warning us with the current series of quakes. As we approach the day of May 21, 2011.

And as far as really seeking God, there is no time like the present to seek God. Salvation may still be found. Like it or not.

I'm not much of a scientist either. But this thread is about seeking God. And God is in charge of all things, including plate tectonics.

So, I'd say it's not much of a stretch to presume God is warning us with the current series of quakes. As we approach the day of May 21, 2011.

Using natural disasters and the misery of others to try and push one's agenda is the height of tackiness. Unfortunately, it's not all that surprising out of you.


And as far as really seeking God, there is no time like the present to seek God. Salvation may still be found. Like it or not.

Um, according to you, no it can't, because it's all preordained, predestined, presweetened and all that and there's nothing we can do about it. I'm glad you've seen the error of your ways.

HeadStrongBoy: And as far as really seeking God, there is no time like the present to seek God. Salvation may still be found. Like it or not.

Dwashbur: Um, according to you, no it can't, because it's all preordained, predestined, presweetened and all that and there's nothing we can do about it. I'm glad you've seen the error of your ways.

Not at all. I never said that salvation could not be found. You seem to be just as lax in paying attention to what I've written as you claim I am. I've maintained all along that believing in Jesus, accepting Jesus, being baptized in water, and following the rules of the churches, is not the way to find salvation.

Not at all. I never said that salvation could not be found. You seem to be just as lax in paying attention to what I've written as you claim I am. I've maintained all along that believing in Jesus, accepting Jesus, being baptized in water, and following the rules of the churches, is not the way to find salvation.

ROM 10:9-10, 13 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."�

In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
Ephesians 1:13-14

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 3:36

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Acts 16:31


Let GOD be true and every man a liar. Bummer HSB:p

classyT said: bummer HSB

Not at all. The verses you've quoted come from the Bible. No doubt about that. But you've presented them in a way that slants your message in a certain direction. Talk about lack of balance!!

To be faithful to the whole Bible (the whole gospel) we must remember to include the warning about Judgment Day, May 21, 2011. Which is almost upon us now.

Not at all. The verses you've quoted come from the Bible. No doubt about that. But you've presented them in a way that slants your message in a certain direction. Talk about lack of balance !!!

To be faithful to the whole Bible (the whole gospel) we must remember to include the warning about Judgment Day, May 21, 2011. Which is almost upon us now.

OK where EXACTLY in the Bible is this date given according to your false teachings??

450donn said: OK where EXACTLY in the Bible is this date given according to your false teachings??

I gave an answer to that question yesterday. Go to Member Discussions/Current Events on this forum, and look at the thread there.

Not at all. The verses you've quoted come from the Bible. No doubt about that. But you've presented them in a way that slants your message in a certain direction. Talk about lack of balance !!!

To be faithful to the whole Bible (the whole gospel) we must remember to include the warning about Judgment Day, May 21, 2011. Which is almost upon us now.

I am faithful to the whole bible. I rightly divide it and put it into context. Something you simply cannont and will not do. If those verses I posted are not true, than Paul lied and the Lord Jesus lied. There ain't no slanting to it... good grief.It is what it is.

I don't understand what your point is anyway. Even if you want to spout that poo concerning May 21,2011, What is it you want everyone to do? Because according to your doctrine of goofy demons, we can't come to the Lord Jesus anyway. We can't believe in him, we can't accept his finished work as enough... that isn't the way of salvation. So? Ok dooms day is May 21, 2011... SO? Big hairy deal. Que sera sera

classyT said: I am faithful to the whole bible. I rightly divide it and put it into context.

Excuse me, but NOT !

You do know some parts of the Bible. But you certainly do not understand God's plan of salvation at all.

You may think you're being faithful to the whole Bible. But you're not. You certainly have no harmony with the scriptures in Ephesians that tell about predestination. You certainly have no harmony with Exodus 31:13 that tells about a very important part of God's salvation. Those two specifics are just for starters. You also probably have no understanding of Judgment Day either. Else you'd be warning the world about it.

There's much more to being faithful to the whole Bible than just saying you are. Unless you can show harmony among all the various major contradictions (real or merely perceived), you do not have the truth. You merely have some bits and pieces here and there, that you've assembled into what seems to be acceptable to most non-thinking churchgoers.

Headstrong,

I said is that I rightly divide the word of truth. I'd rather be Christ conscience than self conscience. My faithfulness isn't what matters... it is all about HIM.

You didn't answer my question... What is your point? What do you have to offer HSB, according to your doctine if the world ends in May?

Time to ask a new question
Follow me to may 21,2011

The tsunami that hit Japan is an indicator of what an 8.8 earthquake is capable of. And an earthquake is an indicator of plate tectonics. Plate tectonics are a part of the geology of the Earth.

Okay I'm not much of a scientist AT ALL but I at least know that there are physical reasons earthquakes and tsunamis happen.

My heart aches for Japan and those who lost homes and loved ones. I pray for their healing.

I am sorry to have revisited this thread, I just do not like it when people use natural disasters or terrorism as a reason to say people must repent.


The bible says it is the goodness of God that makes man repent. So I agree with you.

Romans 2:4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?

The only way to find God is to become truly humble. The Bible teaches that "He gives grace (grace is a synonym for salvation) to the humble, and He resists the proud."

Believe that Judgment Day will be May 21, 2011. Believing is obedience. And obedience is a sign of humility. It MAY BE that God will spare some of us.

Believing is NOT obedience! When we believe obedience follows as an action of our belief.

Ephesians wasn't written to the UNbeliever. It was written to the Christian. Predestination is not a term that is EVER used for the people who have never accepted the Lord Jesus Christ. It is NOT the gospel and shouldn't be preached as the gospel. The gospel is whosoever will may come. So sunshine, you are wrong yet AGAIN.

We are to humble ourselves before God. But that means acknowledging we have no power in an of ourselves to fix the separation between God and man because of sin. And to accept the perfect sacrifice and gift in Jesus Christ. THAT is how we humble ourselves.

Triund asked: Am I seeking HIM in the right way or pushing my envelop?

It's not about any particular activity. Though Bible study and prayer are most excellent. God seeks those with a broken spirit and a contrite heart. He alone CAN see into a person's heart, mind, or soul. And God does command us to believe in Him, and He commands us to seek Him. But we are capable of only imperfect obedience. And all our obedience amounts to nothing more than "filthy rags." Even our very best efforts.

But God has defined the parameters of the environment in which He does select some to be saved. That environment consists of two parts. One is the "hearing" of the word of God. Because "faith (faith is a synonym for Christ) cometh by hearing." And the other parameter is humility or obedience. Obedience is a sign of humility. But all of those efforts to enter the proper environment are still works on our part. And they (our works) do not guarantee our salvation at all. In fact they do just the opposite. Trusting our own works (efforts) to make us right with God guarantees that we will end up under the judgment and the wrath of God. That is what Exodus 31:13 and Numbers 15:33-36 is all about. Maybe I'll expound on the specifics of those passages another time.