Why religion is so natural to some people, truly believe it and it is non sense to some others. You could see this through all societies in the past and present and among all religions, among all educated and uneducated people, among those who grow up on religious environment and those who grow up in non religious environment, Do we born with either beliveing or not believing.

Simple. Some people find comfort in their beliefs so are willing to take things on faith. Others require more concrete proof.

There is a god gene in all of us and in some it runs stronger then others. So the tendency is towards organized religion.

From Christian perspective I can say that it is God who gives you the faith to belief on HIM.

There is a god gene in all of us and in some it runs stronger then others. So the tendency is towards orginized religion.Now that's a leap of faith! LOL! I believe the opposite, belief in a god in indoctrinated into a person.

Now that's a leap of faith! LOL! I believe the opposite, belief in a god in indoctrinated into a person.

Well it has been proven as fact that the god gene exists in all of us. Its also believed that that is where the concepts of gods came from. The religion part is for control of the masses. What a person believes is up to them but in some its stronger then others.

Well it has been proven as fact that the god gene exists in all of us.I don't think that has been proven at all. Can you point me to an objective source that did studies to find this fact?

Here are just a few to start with.

God gene - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_gene)

God gene - Psychology Wiki (http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/God_gene)

The Brain Chemistry of the Buddha: Dean Hamer on the God Gene- Beliefnet.com (http://www.beliefnet.com/News/Science-Religion/2004/10/The-Brain-Chemistry-Of-The-Buddha.aspx)

Amazon.com: The God Gene: How Faith is Hardwired into our Genes (9780385500586): Dean H. Hamer: Books (http://www.amazon.com/God-Gene-Faith-Hardwired-Genes/dp/0385500580)

Geneticist claims to have found 'God gene' in humans - Washington Times (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/nov/14/20041114-111404-8087r/)

Yea, I just read the Wiki one. You realize it's simply a hypothesis and not a proof by al;ong shot. It's important to read properly.

Here are some quotes:


A number of scientists and researchers are highly critical of this theory; Carl Zimmer, writing in Scientific American, questions why "Hamer rushed into print with this book before publishing his results in a credible scientific journal."[2] In his book, Hamer backs away from the title and main hypotheses by saying "Just because spirituality is partly genetic doesn't mean it is hardwired."


This is a long way from a "God Gene", as PZ Myers notes:

"It's a pump. A teeny-tiny pump responsible for packaging a neurotransmitter for export during brain activity. Yes, it's important, and it may even be active and necessary during higher order processing, like religious thought. But one thing it isn't is a 'god gene.'"[4]


John Polkinghorne, an Anglican priest, member of the Royal Society and Canon Theologian at Liverpool Cathedral, was asked for a comment on Hamer's theory by the British national daily newspaper, The Daily Telegraph. He replied: "The idea of a God gene goes against all my personal theological convictions. You can't cut faith down to the lowest common denominator of genetic survival. It shows the poverty of reductionist thinking." [6][7]

Walter Houston, the chaplain of Mansfield College, Oxford, and a fellow in theology, told the Telegraph: "Religious belief is not just related to a person's constitution; it's related to society, tradition, character—everything's involved. Having a gene that could do all that seems pretty unlikely to me."

The hypothesis simply states that a person who has the gene may feel a need to believe in a god, it has absolutely nothing to do with the existence of any gods.

And the whole thing is based on one person's book - that's it.

I never made any claims about it being "god". The only thing I was claiming is that there is a connection in that a belief in a supreme being or beings can come from a physical source. As you could imagine there would be great resistance to such findings. Im not trying to say there is a god or not. My belief system has me believing in one but that's just me. As for others its not for me to push my beliefs in my god upon them.

We don't know to this day what every gene combination does or how in changing it what it will do. Just like all the monies that have been poured into other research. But the fact remains that even at our earliest times there was some need / craving for religion. That is where the basis of the god gene comes from. There is also tests that have been done in isolation chambers and resonate frequencies that have shown to activate this portion of the brain. EMF sensetivity can caus these things to occur. Shamans witch doctors and faith healers have long been a part of our ancient history. I admit this research is in baby shoes at this time. But we are all one step closer to finding answers.

Simple. Some people find comfort in their beliefs so are willing to take things on faith. Others require more concrete proof.

I agree 110% with the above comment. I do not believe in any sort of religion. Here is why:

I am not spending my time on earth faithful to something I hope exists after death, wasteing my time hoping something happens in the after-life. I have seen no proof, I have seen no evidence, I have seen good people die, bad people go free, cities crumbled, wars started and I'm suppose to believe there is a god. If there was why let this happen? Why make the world the way it turned out.

How can anybody believe the bible, its suppose to be "very old" but how much of it was just added on, or changed throughout the years, how do we know it wasn't created by someone long ago as a just a piece of reading material?

That's my thought on the matter of religion, now with that said, I do believe in doing good, helping others and abiding by a set of moral and ethical laws but this has nothing to do with religion, the Ten Commandments, etc...

I am not spending my time on earth faithful to something I hope exists after death, wasteing my time hoping something happens in the after-life.
You do have to admit that you have wondered why you are on this Earth and where are you going when your life ends and what's the point of it all -- or if there even IS a point.

As you can tell it is easy to find those who believe and those who don't.

The why is simple, to believe and accept a God, we have to accept that we are not in control of things ourself, that there is something bigger. And that there is a absolute right and wrong. Not a guidle line of moral opinion. So people often don't want to be controlled or do what a God requires of them.
They rebel which is part of mans nature.

And of course many as one of the above posters use the argument that there can not be , since bad things happen to good people, which of course is not a reason to believe or not believe since few religions teach that bad can not happen, ONLY that God gives them the strengh to get though it.
For or from a Christian view point, in fact God is not the God of this world right now, the evil side controls the world, and not till the end time will God finally conquer and destroy the evil.

Thus in Christianity Satan is callled the Prince of the World,

The simple fact is that I don't believe. Not because I am rebelling, not because bad things happen to good people. I am a non-believer for one simple reason (as stated above but I'll be more clear)

There's no proof "god" exists. I'm not wasteing time, resources and energy trying to believe in something no one knows exist.

There's no proof "god" exists. I'm not wasteing time, resources and energy trying to believe in something no one knows exist.
But, have you ever wondered why you are on this Earth and where are you going when your life ends and what's the point of it all -- or if there even IS a point?

But, have you ever wondered why you are on this Earth and where are you going when your life ends and what's the point of it all -- or if there even IS a point?

Everyone wonders about this, and (I believe) this is why some people find religion so appealing and easy to believe because it gives them an answer to that ultimate question.

But

Slartibartfast: "Perhaps I'm old and tired, but I think that the chances of finding out what's actually going on are so absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say, 'Hang the sense of it,' and keep yourself busy. I'd much rather be happy than right any day."
Arthur: "And are you?"
Slartibartfast: "Ah, no. (laughs) Well, that's where it all falls down, of course."

I think that bit sums it up rather nicely

But, have you ever wondered why you are on this Earth and where are you going when your life ends and what's the point of it all -- or if there even IS a point?

Fertilizer.

Can you guess what I believe in?

Yes I know this is going to offend people but I'm a bit sick of people arguing with Atheists that God exists.

Making all these points about "what is the meaning of life" isn't going to make me change my mind... that makes me think about well, how exactly did life start scientifically.

When someone says they believe in God I say "good for you" not "oh well this isn't real and that isn't real and the bible is made up".
Yet when I tell a Christian I am Atheist well... don't I get an earful!

Instead of trying to convert people, how about listening to why they believe what they do and respecting that.
They obviously chose that path for a reason.

Oh, and that's not having a go at you WG! I just wanted to make the fertilizer comment is why I quoted you!

Does God exist? I don't know. I'm not going to say he definitely does, and I can't say he definitely doesn't. I don't believe in the God that Christians preach about. If he was all loving, all caring, we're his children, blah, blah, blah, than he's one heck of a horrible parent. Just my opinion.

Personally, if there is a God, I believe he made this world and walked away. The bible, great reading, but not proof of a God. Actually, it's one of the many things that made me lean towards not believing.

If I'm wrong and God does exist, well, I'd hope that being a good person, being nice to people, helping my fellow man/woman, and not killing the jerk that cut me off in the Walmart parking lot, will get me into heaven. After all, if some of the God believing people I've met are going to heaven after treating people like crap, cheating on their spouses, beating their kids, etc. etc. are going to heaven because they believe, than I should be a shoe in. :)

If he was all loving, all caring, we're his children, blah, blah, blah, than he's one heck of a horrible parent. Just my opinion.
He created a good world; we screwed it up (and are still screwing it up).

Personally, if there is a God, I believe he made this world and walked away.
No, He's watching us as we fix things. And gives us the mental and physical and emotional strength to do it.

The bible, great reading, but not proof of a God.
You're right. That's not its purpose.

After all, if some of the God believing people I've met are going to heaven after treating people like crap, cheating on their spouses, beating their kids, etc. etc. are going to heaven because they believe, than I should be a shoe in. :)
Obviously, they DON'T believe.

And that there is a absolute right and wrong. Not a guidle line of moral opinion.Hello:

I'm an atheist. I believe there is an absolute right and wrong. The notion that morals ONLY come from God, is just not so.

excon

Hello:

I'm an atheist. I believe there is an absolute right and wrong.
What if your children are very hungry, and you have absolutely no money. Is it okay to steal food to feed them? Can theft be a fuzzy concept?

The notion that morals ONLY come from God, is just not so.

I agree. There is something inside of each of us apart from religion that will scream, "That's wrong!" Now, where does THAT come from?

What if your children are very hungry, and you have absolutely no money. Is it okay to steal food to feed them? Can theft be a fuzzy concept?

I agree. There is something inside of each of us apart from religion that will scream, "That's wrong!" Now, where does THAT come from?Hello WG:

Nope. I'm a rigid man. I won't steal. It's not fuzzy to me. Maybe that's because at one time it was. I haven't always been this wonderful.

Where does the voice inside your head come from? The civilization gene. It might be the same one dad talked about.

excon

Excon,

What if you're in a life raft with six other people, and it's sinking. Do you agree with the others to throw out the fat lady?

WG

What if you're in a life raft with six other people, and it's sinking. Do you agree with the others to throw out the fat lady?Hello again, WG:

Nahhh. We're in it together..

excon

What if you're in a life raft with six other people, and it's sinking. Do you agree with the others to throw out the fat lady?
Don't know, what does the bible say about that situation?

Dunno, what does the bible say about that situation?
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you?

WG, great questions, but I fail to see what they have to do with God.

Morals don't come from God. Being good doesn't come from God. It comes from within, from the person.

I think the amount of wonderful people on this site that are Atheists should be proof enough of that.

Morals don't come from God. Being good doesn't come from God. It comes from within, from the person.

I think the amount of wonderful people on this site that are Atheists should be proof enough of that.
Atheists learn it from somewhere. Morals just don't spring up unbidden from inside a person. Freud nailed with his id and superego theories.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you?Great, that's what I follow too. That advice transcend religion as pretty much every religion has a mention of that social rule.

Atheists learn it from somewhere. Morals just don't spring up unbidden from inside a person. Agreed. They come from one's upbringing, usually their parents.

Atheists learn it from somewhere. Morals just don't spring up unbidden from inside a person. Freud nailed with his id and superego theories.

That may be true, but obviously they didn't learn morals from God. People can be moral without God. They can do the right thing without God.

How would they have learned morals from God when they don't believe? It's not like God plays a physical role in anyone's life. Believing in God is all about the bible, organized religion, being taught in church what you should believe. An atheist doesn't have access to those things, so won't learn morals from that source.

There are good people out there that aren't good because of any "God" influence. To suggest that only God can make you moral is simply not true.

That may be true, but obviously they didn't learn morals from God. People can be moral without God. They can do the right thing without God.
Why are you beating that to death? I've already said earlier in this thread (to excon, I believe) that I agree that morals don't have to be from God.

But any of us, atheists included, have to LEARN morality from SOMEwhere. Being moral is not a given, is not automatic.

WG,
There are just as many immoral people who are religious as there are who aren't religious. Would you agree?

WG,
There are just as many immoral people who are religious as there are who aren't religious. Would you agree?
Define "religious."

Would say that they believe in a god.

Why are you beating that to death? I've already said earlier in this thread (to excon, I believe) that I agree that morals don't have to be from God.

But any of us, atheists included, have to LEARN morality from SOMEwhere. Being moral is not a given, is not automatic.

I didn't see the post were you said that the Exy. Can I ask why you keep posting scenarios where moral choices are involved? What are your questions leading to? Why ask them if you agree that you don't need God to have morals?

Your questions were what lead me to post what I did. That's why I was "beating it to death".

If it wasn't your intention to prove that God teaches morals, than I apologize. I guess this is what happens when I only get 3 hours of sleep. ;)

Would say that they believe in a god.
Well, that leaves it wide open! That god could be their paycheck or their children or an older brother.

Well, that leaves it wide open! That god could be their paycheck or their children or an older brother.
Ok, I can let you define the word religious. Go for it.

I didn't see the post were you said that the Exy. Can I ask why you keep posting scenarios where moral choices are involved? What are your questions leading to? Why ask them if you agree that you don't need God to have morals?

Your questions were what lead me to post what I did. That's why I was "beating it to death".

If it wasn't your intention to prove that God teaches morals, than I apologize. I guess this is what happens when I only get 3 hours of sleep. ;)
I accept your apology. I have absolutely NO intention of proving God teaches morals. My question is, where do people learn about morals if not from God. Exy answered that quite nicely. Freud did too. The scenarios I posted were for Exy, and he responded to them very thoughtfully and aptly.

My question is, where do people learn about morals if not from God. Exy answered that quite nicely. Freud did too.And I did too: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/2639856-post30.html :)

Ok, I can let you define the word religious. Go for it.
It was your word, not mine. I personally think the word is too vague to even merit a definition.

And I did too: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/2639856-post30.html :)
Yup, or some authority figure, if not parents.

I'd also want the definition of "immoral."

Maybe the forum topic and the OP's question should be changed then.

Maybe the forum topic and the OP's question should be changed then.
That was the first thing I thought of when I read the question. Or at least, we need his definition of "religion."

He posted two questions and never returned to any of those threads.

Couldn't we use this as a baseline?: Religious - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religious)

He posted two questions and never returned to any of those threads.

Couldn't we use this as a baseline?: Religious - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religious)
No. That's "religious." We want the definition for "religion." Here's that:

Definition of RELIGION
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Hmmmm, I'm not sure I want "devotion" or "ardor" in the definition. I think the definition of "religion" as used nowadays is much more watered-down than the dictionary indicates.

Denotation vs connotation?

<the librarian will score me points for that one:)>

As to where we can find morality? I think Kant provides a excellent answer to that question.

"Thus things that inspire genuine awe: the starry sky above and the moral law within".

I think Kant would say that when we fulfill the moral law within we are always in the service of humanity. As long as our actions are moral, then it is impossible to serve God otherwise.

Regards

Tut

As to where we can find morality? I think Kant provides a excellent answer to that question.

"Thus things that inspire genuine awe: the starry sky above and the moral law within".
Awe doesn't inspire morality.

Awe doesn't inspire morality.


Hi Wondergirl,

Something must have been lost in the translation from German to English.

Tut

TUT, write it out in German, either WG or I can translate it. :)

TUT, write it out in German, either WG or I can translate it. :)


Hi Altenweg,

Nice to hear from you.

Sorry, I don't have the German version. It wouldn't do me any good if I did I have enough trouble with English.

Apparently Kant wrote is such a complicated style that German students preferred the English translation. They claimed it was easier to follow his arguments. Being the genius he was this doesn't surprise me.

Regards

Tut

Not surprising. There are so many different dialects in German that even Germans have trouble understanding all of them. I have an Uncle whose own sons can't understand a word he says, even though they're both speaking German.

I was once stuck in a car with him for 3 hours. I ended up just nodding to everything he said because I couldn't understand a word (I speak fluent German). I found out that my nodding was a bad idea when he pulled over to the side of the road and motioned for me to get in the drivers seat of his Porsche. Apparently he had asked me if I wanted to drive, and I agreed.

Pretty scary experience for a 16 year old from Canada. :eek: