Where is the Uproar from the Freedom FROM religion types on the left when Boston PUBLIC school 6th graders are bussed to a mosque during school hours without either the notification or permission of their parents.



Video Shows Public Middle School Boys Joining Muslim Men In Prayer at Controversial, Saudi-Funded Boston Mosque

BOSTON, Sept. 16 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Americans for Peace and Tolerance (APT) today released a disturbing video showing Wellesley Massachusetts public middle school boys taking part in Muslim prayers during a field trip to a mosque. The video raises serious questions about permitting school children to visit the Islamic Society of Boston Cultural Center – the controversial Saudi-funded mosque in the Roxbury neighborhood of Boston.

It also raises questions about the behavior and intentions of mosque leadership. The mosque is controlled by the radical Muslim American Society (MAS).

In a May 2010 visit, the students were presented with Islamist propaganda, which falsified history by minimizing oppression of women in the Muslim world and whitewashing the role of Jihad in Islamic territorial conquests.

The most outrageous incident occurred during the Muslim mid-day prayer. The students were separated by gender. Then, some of the public school boys, along with the Muslim men, bowed and prostrated themselves with their heads touching the floor in traditional Muslim prayer.

"This is yet another one of a series of incidents at the mosque which demonstrate the deceitful nature of its leadership," said Dr. Charles Jacobs, President of Americans for Peace and Tolerance. "Under the guise of an educational field trip, the MAS subjected public school children to a subtle form of proselytizing. The combination of bad faith by the MAS with poor judgment, and perhaps incompetence, by school officials is responsible for this breach of the separation of church and state."

The Boston mosque, like the Ground Zero Mosque in New York City, has been embraced by local political leaders including Boston Mayor Menino and Massachusetts Governor Patrick. Dr. Jacobs noted, "Our political and civic leadership is reluctant to deal with the reality of Muslim radicals in our community promoting their Islamist agenda to our children, preferring instead to adopt a feel-good politically-correct posture."




Public School Field Trip: Inside Video Captures Kids Bowing to Allah (http://bigpeace.com/cjacobs/2010/09/16/school-trip-to-moderate-mosque-inside-video-captures-kids-bowing-to-allah/)

Massachusetts, | BOSTON, Sept. 16 | Video Shows Public Middle School Boys Joining Muslim Men In Prayer at Controversial, Saudi-Funded Boston Mosque | The Herald - Rock Hill, SC (http://www.heraldonline.com/2010/09/16/2457369_video-shows-public-middle-school.html)

School Trip to ?Moderate? Mosque: Inside Video Captures Kids Bowing to Allah (http://www.peaceandtolerance.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=129:school-trip-to-moderate-mosque-inside-video-captures-kids-bowing-to-allah&catid=7:our-statements&Itemid=39)

I'm speechless. I do not find it a stretch of the imagination to think that this will happen in NYC, if that "cultural center" is built.

Just another case of stupid educaters

Just another case of stupid educaters

I agree with you there... they can't teach the kids to read, write and do math so they waste time dragging them ot Mosques, damn what their parents want.

I'm speechless. I do not find it a stretch of the imagination to think that this will happen in NYC, if that "cultural center" is built.

If this had been a field trip to a Christian Church the lawsuits would already be filed by the ACLU... under the separation of church and state statutes they loved to argue so much when it came to prayer and Christian Holidays.

You're exactly right. The story would be on CNN repeated over and over ad nauseum.

We should all know by this time that when the "separation of church and state" is rolled out, that it only applies to CHRISTIAN churches. Ditto for those in public office or military chaplains.

We should all know by this time that when the "separation of church and state" is rolled out, that it only applies to CHRISTIAN churches. Ditto for those in public office or military chaplains.

I am marvelling at the glaring absence of our own liberal debaters when the subject is this outrageous. Ex can't make this one about Bush. NK can't disavow the Globe. Even these "educators'" decision can't be explained away by WG.

C'mon Lefties, step up to the plate. (This is my best excon impersonation, I'm not that good at it)

Stupid educators. Not involving religion in education should indeed mean all religions, unless the students specifically select the class as an elective. I'm always stunned by the school system in the US.

Stupid educators. Not involving religion in education should indeed mean all religions, unless the students specifically select the class as an elective. I'm always stunned by the school system in the US.

I quess these educators didn't believe Islam is a religion and therefore not admissible in school studies, after all they just wanted the students to appreciate the architectural beauty of the building or some such...

The students were compelled to participate which is a clear violation of the 1st Amendment by anyone's standards.

The teachers and administrators that approved this should be immediately dismissed.

I agree with bleusong... Change the name of the victory ghazva mosque to "cultural center " and every student in the NYC school system will be subject to this type of proselytizing .

They DID have the permission of their parents. The video originally posted says so.

And women's lot WAS improved in the 7th century by Mohammed and the beginnings of Islam.

Participation in this exercise meant the exclusion of the girls who took the field trip ;treating them as less than equal. Why are you defending that ?

Participation in this exercise meant the exclusion of the girls who took the field trip ;treating them as less than equal. Why are you defending that ?
That was the POINT!!

Really ?Then it's a good thing that Islam has been at the forefront of rights for woman since.. the 7th century .

To make the lesson complete then the girls should be flogged for exposing their face.

Really ?Then it's a good thing that Islam has been at the forefront of rights for woman since.. the 7th century .
Did I say Muslim women have had rights since then? No, I didn't. Don't twist my words.


To make the lesson complete then the girls should be flogged for exposing their face.
Yes, and that would have driven the point home even further.

For balance then you won't mind students going on a field trip to a cathedral to participate in a Latin Mass,including the kneeling and participation in the prayers... maybe receiving communion as a bonus.

That ACLU person present would have issues with that I'd bet.

For balance then you won't mind students going on a field trip to a cathedral to participate in a Latin Mass,including the kneeling and participation in the prayers... maybe receiving communion as a bonus.
Nope. And also a Jewish synagogue and also a Mormon temple (girls excluded again) and a Hindu temple and a Buddhist monastery. I only wish all that would have been done when I was a student.


That ACLU person present would have issues with that I'd bet.
I'm not a member.

So much for that "established" 'separation of church and state'. If this isn't an establishment clause violation, I don't know what is .Even Wellesley School Superintendent Bella Wong apologized and said it was a mistake to allow the children to participate in the prayers.
Wellesley schools chief apologizes for students' role in Muslim prayer service - Wellesley - Your Town - Boston.com (http://www.boston.com/yourtown/news/wellesley/2010/09/wellesley_schools_chief_apolog.html)

so much for that "established" 'separation of church and state'.
If it's for a civics or social studies class, and no one religion is pushed as the preferred one, what's the problem? And of course the parents have to sign a permission slip.

Kids want to "try it out" no matter what it is. If the adults don't stop them, of course kids will go through the motions to see how it feels. They do it with sex, so why not religion.

The parents weren't told their children would participate in Muslim prayers and prostate themselves.

I guess if you take prayer out of the class room and bring the class room to the mosque then that satisfies liberal sensitivities.

The students praying in no way can be called civics or social studies.

The parents weren't told their children would participate in Muslim prayers and prostate themselves.
No, but they DID give permission to go to the mosque. You (or someone) said that hadn't happened. I'm guessing there had been no coordination with the mosque people about details, so it just flowed that the time for prayers arrived, and the students were politely invited to participate. The hosts wouldn't have thought anything of it, and were being good hosts.

I guess if you take prayer out of the class room and bring the class room to the mosque then that satisfies liberal sensitivities.
I hope the class goes to other houses of worship.

The students praying in no way can be called civics or social studies.
Read what I wrote above. And earlier I wrote, kids like to try things out. Had the mosque people rolled up a unicycle in front of the group and asked if anyone would like to try to ride it, I'm sure several students would have volunteered. If the mosque people would have offered a plateful of stuffed dates to the students and invited them to take a bite, I'm sure some of the students would have obliged. That's what young people do -- they try things out.

Students would have fallen off the unicycle and spit out the dates and later complained about praying on the hard floor and hurting their backs and knees, especially for five times a day.

No, but they DID give permission to go to the mosque. You (or someone) said that hadn't happened.

No I did not say that ;but I can now say with a high degree of confidence that the parents were deceived about the purpose of the trip.
The parents were led to believe that the purpose of the trip was to study the architecture of the mosque,and "to give the kids an authentic experience inside the mosque by observing Islamic religion first hand."
Field Trip Prayer Prompts Apology :: The Investigative Project on Terrorism (http://www.investigativeproject.org/2185/field-trip-prayer-prompts-apology)

No I did not say that
Someone yesterday was ranting about it. Musta been the guy whose name starts with "s".

I can now say with a high degree of confidence that the parents were deceived about the purpose of the trip.
That may not be true at all!

The parents were led to believe that the purpose of the trip was to study the architecture of the mosque,and "to give the kids an authentic experience inside the mosque by observing Islamic religion first hand."
You're a real color magician!

It definitely was an authentic experience! Like I said before (and you glossed over), the whole thing probably got out of hand with prayertime arriving and the gracious hosts inviting the students to experience the prayertime too. If an atheist had come to my father's church, I would have expected him/her to at least stand or sit quietly, bow his head, and even close his eyes in respect.

How many of these students have become Muslims now and have joined a terrorist cell?

C'mon Lefties, step up to the plate. (This is my best Excon impersonation, I'm not that good at it)Hello Cats:

Sorry to disappoint you, but I am NOT a mouthpiece for the left. Besides, educators and what they do isn't representative of ANY particular political persuasion, as far as I know. What? There aren't Republican teachers?? If they did GOOD, I'll bet you'd think they were conservative. But, since they did bad, well...

Now, I don't know what the LEFT thinks about the public schools involving themselves in ANY religion. I can't imagine them not knowing that the trip is a violation of the Constitution. Let's hope these educators DON'T teach civics..

I don't know WHY you think I'd support a school outing to a mosque when I wouldn't support a school outing to a church. Yes, contrary to some accusations, I AM consistent.

excon

Looks like my Excon impersonation worked.

Hi, Ex. You're right(make that correct), you are consistent. You support the first 9 Amendments every chance you get.

Yes, I imagine there are Republican teachers, although it seems a fairly recent phenomenon and has nothing to do with the OP.

Wondergirl I am not faulting the people at the mosque for proselytizing .That's their job. I fault the school and particularly the escorts for not stopping it as inappropriate.
Thankfully there was a suspicious parent with a video camera. One could just imagine the subtle and not so subtle pressure on the students to participate otherwise.

Wondergirl I am not faulting the people at the mosque for proselytizing .That's their job. I fault the school and particularily the escorts for not stopping it as inappropriate.
How many students have switched religions?

WG your question is a non sequitur .If all or none of them convert the issue remains the same.The students should not have been put in a positition to accept or reject an offer to pray during a field trip ;or participate in any ritual that could be construed as religious.

How many students have switched religions?

How many Hindus converted from seeing the Nativity Scene on the Courthouse lawn? Invalid question.

The students should not have been put in a positition to accept or reject an offer to pray
I shouldn't have had to relearn the Pledge years ago when someone stuck in "under God."

Where else would the students learn how to accept or reject something offered by a religious leader?

It's the parents call. I went to Catholic instruction because my parents chose the send me there... not because a school field trip was arranged .

Where else would the students learn how to accept or reject something offered by a religious leader?Hello Carol:

At home, or in church. Certainly NOT in school.

excon

Why did I have to relearn the Pledge?

Why did I have to relearn the Pledge?Hello again, Carol:

It's because some religious fanatic had some sway... It wouldn't happen now - but we're STUCK with it. It IS a LIE, isn't it?? One nation, under god... What a bunch of hooey. This is MY nation too, and it AIN'T under no god!

excon

Where else would the students learn how to accept or reject something offered by a religious leader?

Same place they learn to reject or accept the teachings of their own/their parents' religious views. In their heart once they've figured out on their own how to think, since their teachers are no longer allowed to teach such things.

The entire point to the thread is that since schools are prohibited from touring Holy Cross, they should be equally prohibited from touring this terrorist-funded madrassa.

It's because some religious fanatic had some sway...
So glad that fanatic was a Christian, or a lotta people would be awful mad!

Gee ,why stop there ? Why not scrub any historical reference to God by the founders regardless of how pertinent they were to the founding of the nation and their beliefs that our freedoms come from God?

The pledge is not a prayer so to compare it to the mosque field trip is apples and oranges.

Gee ,why stop there ? The pledge is not a prayer so to compare it to the mosque field trip is apples and oranges.Hello again, tom:

No, but the principle is the same - GOVERNMENT involvement in religion. If you believe the government SHOULD promote god, then it shouldn't bother you too much they they want to promote Allah...

excon

The reference to God doesn't promote God
."[The pledge is] a secular activity - an individual statement of patriotism and respect for this country and its primary symbol."
http://supreme.lp.findlaw.com/supreme_court/briefs/02-1624/02-1624.mer.ami.cif.pdf
(amicus submitted in the Newdow law suit )


"A sense of proportion should also guide those who police the boundaries between church and state. Not every mention of God in public is a breach to the wall of separation -- context matters. It is doubtful that children reciting the Pledge of Allegiance feel oppressed or brainwashed as a consequence of muttering the phrase 'under God.' I didn't."
Name that speaker...

Under your prescription any mention of God in our history and culture would be scrubbed from the curriculum regardless of it's content (the whole Enlightenment recognized a non-denominational God and an admiration and appreciation for that God's creation.You cannot properly study the Enlightement or it's influence on the founders without that basic fact)

name that speaker.....

Under your prescription any mention of God in our history and culture would be scrubbed from the curriculum regardless of it's content . You cannot properly study the Enlightement or it's influence on the founders without that basic fact)Hello again, tom:

I don't care if it was a liberals lib. He's WRONG. We only have ONE Pledge of Allegiance... It's NOT history. It's NOT culture. It's NOT study. It's what we ALL say. But, it doesn't apply to ALL of us. Before they inserted those two offending words, however, it DID.

Contrary to your assertion, I'm HAPPY to have religion and it's influence on American culture and history, STUDIED in school. You DO grasp the distinction between STUDY and PRAYER, don't you?

excon

For reference, Wellesly is a very white, very upper-crust and uptight Boston suburb where you can't even park your car on the street over-night.

If you don't go on these stupid field trips that all your friends are going on, you get to stay with a teacher all day and do homework, or copying words out of a dictionary. What kid wants to do that? It's blackmail.

Nope. And also a Jewish synagogue and also a Mormon temple (girls excluded again) and a Hindu temple and a Buddhist monastery. I only wish all that would have been done when I was a student.
If we have to go there, then we also need to include cults too.

The entire point to the thread is that since schools are prohibited from touring Holy Cross, they should be equally prohibited from touring this terrorist-funded madrassa.
According to Fox News, that is exactly what this class was about. FOXNews.com - School Apologizes After Students Pray to Allah on Field Trip to Mosque (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/17/school-apologizes-students-pray-allah-field-trip-mosque/)

"Wong explained the field trip was part of a course titled, “Enduring Beliefs and the World Today.” It included a visit to a synagogue and a mosque – along with a gospel music concert and a meeting with representatives of the Hindu religion."

Based upon the above, I don't know if the students were actually allowed to visit a church or simply allowed to attend a gospel music concert. In any event, if the school was trying to teach children about "enduring beliefs and the world today", a field trip to at least one church was absolutely necessary to fulfill the coursework intent.



Wondergirl I am not faulting the people at the mosque for proselytizing .That's their job. I fault the school and particularily the escorts for not stopping it as inappropriate. Thankfully there was a suspicious parent with a video camera. One could just imagine the subtle and not so subtle pressure on the students to participate otherwise.

Tom, I absolutely agree. I do fault the school AND "particularly the escorts". However, I don't agree we should be thankful to this parent for the choice she made. I am left scratching my head wondering WHY she chose to videotape this incident RATHER than grab one or two other escorts and immediately stop what was occurring in front of her. It didn't take an army to intercede when the mosque representative began to proselytize and eventually manage to coerce 5 children (out of 200 on the field trip) into participating in their prayer service. I honestly don't understand how any responsible parent would be so passive when faced with something so abhorrent to our senses. Unless the intent was to create a news story. Curiously enough, another quote from the Fox News article might explain it all:

"Attorney Rob Meltzer represents the parent, who asked not to be identified. He’s launched an investigation into the incident and says he may consider filing a lawsuit or complaint against the school district."

If a lawsuit is filed it will cost the average taxpayer from that school district a great deal of money to defend something that NEVER should have been allowed to occur. In my opinion, not only was the school irresponsible for not monitoring this course/situation properly but THAT parent who made this into a nationwide news story was completely irresponsible in fulfilling her duties as a chaperone/escort. If it was one of my kids that participated in the prayer service, I would be spitting mad at her for not only failing to act in stopping my child but purposely taping him/her! I would be looking into holding that parent responsible and suing her.

I honestly don't understand how any responsible parent would be so passive when faced with something so abhorrent to our senses. Unless the intent was to create a news story.G'morning, J:

One of smoothy's references, "Public School Field Trip: Inside Video Captures Kids Bowing to Allah (http://bigpeace.com/cjacobs/2010/09/16/school-trip-to-moderate-mosque-inside-video-captures-kids-bowing-to-allah/)" is Andrew Brietbart's site.

Hmmm.. He sounds familiar... Isn't he the one who edited the tapes of Shirley Sherrod to make it appear she said ONE thing, when she, in fact, said something completely different??

I'm just saying.

excon

I am left scratching my head wondering WHY she chose to videotape this incident RATHER than grab one or two other escorts and immediately stop what was occuring in front of her.
That was my thought also. Why didn't the escorts have the cajones to step in and stop the students from participating? Were they so blindsided, or was it a set-up since the Quorah-burner was off the front page and things had gotten dull in Medialand? Apparently, someone had time and opportunity on her hands to film the prayers (and am surprised the Muslims allowed that).

I don't question her motive any more than I question anyone else's motives for using video. Everything that happens today is recorded . I also do not know it's a fact that the parent taping was a chaperone ,or if that parent raised objections.
...
Breitbart exposed a corruption involving Shirley Sherrod much deeper than the racism charges that were later disproved . There are many who believe Breitbart's actual motives was to expose Sherrod's corruption in the “Pigford v. Glickman”case ;where she scammed the government out of $ millions .

Lol ,you make it sound like selective release of tape is a Breitbart invention.

I also do not know it's a fact that the parent taping was a chaperone
That's what the original video said she was there for, to chaperone.

Thanks... I didn't watch the whole video... only the edited tape.

Still this complaint about the parent seems a little like 'kill the messenger' .

Still this complaint about the parent seems a little like 'kill the messenger' .
She snapped her camera out of her purse and perkily announced with horror that she was going to videotape the awful events that were currently taking place at the mosque *gasp*. (It wasn't quite like that, but she was "in the right time at the right place." While I was watching it, I felt like "that is a little too pat.")

Tom, WG is right. Not only the video stated she was an escort/chaperone but the links posted throughout this thread state it as well.

I haven't chaperoned any field trips. I do remember being a kid with the mixed feeling of horror and embarrassment when my Mother chaperoned one trip and caught some kids smoking. She certainly didn't keep her mouth shut!

Part of the job of the parent as chaperone is not only to monitor the children's actions but to act as a teacher's aide and keep them from doing anything that might be considered harmful or goes against policy.

Please give some thought to this: If one of the 5 children was hers don't you think she would have grabbed him/her and kept them from joining in the prayer service? Wouldn't you if the child was yours? I certainly would. And, I would expect you as another parent to quietly and kindly tell the lady who was conducting the tour that she is entitled to her beliefs but this is considered a learning experience, not a participating one, and immediately hustle those children out of there.

(It wasn't quite like that, but she was "in the right time at the right place." While I was watching it, I felt like "that is a little too pat.")

So what if it was? Obama called on all Americans to spy for him, if you saw anything that "seems fishy" about Obamacare he wanted you to send him an email at [email protected] and the NAACP just called for people to spy on the Tea Party. Holding schools accountable is a good thing, ratting out your neighbors for exercising their rights isn't.

So what if it was?
You're comparing apples with oranges.

You're comparing apples with oranges.

No, I am not.

And what could there possibly be to report?

For Obama and the NAACP's spies, nothing. That's the point. Holding schools accountable is a good thing, ratting out your neighbors for exercising their rights isn't.

ratting out your neighbors for exercising their rights
If they are exercising their rights, what's to report? I don't get it.

What exactly was the chaperone supposed to do ? Create a scene in the Mosque ? Physically prevent the students from participating ?

The bottom line here is that parents signed a permission slip to have their children observe. Knelling in prayer is not observing. I am not really interested in a possible motive for the taping other than the fact that one of the chaperone's had a camera available to record this so the denials could be nipped in the bud.
Too often I have heard stories of children being instructed to not inform their parents about the "lesson" they are being taught.

What exactly was the chaperone supposed to do ?
One of the group leaders should have immediately walked up to the person inviting the students to pray along and quietly said that that wasn't the purpose of or part of the visit and that the group would simply stand at the back and watch, if that would be okay.

This was not rocket science.


The bottom line here is that parents signed a permission slip to have their children observe. Knelling in prayer is not observing.
Knelling is bell ringing. I agree that the visit was only to observe, not to participate. And again I say that students want to try things out, so it was up to the leaders or even a chaperone to step in and take charge and remind everyone why they were there. No one did. The fault is with the white guys, not the brown ones.

Did the chaperone tape anything else, or just this part?

The fault is with the white guys, not the brown ones.

Liberal racism rears it's ugly head again.

Liberal racism rears it's ugly head again.
How do you figure? The brown guys run the mosque. The white people came for a visit. Didn't you watch the video?

How about I say the Muslims were not at fault; the visitors were.

"Liberal racism rears it's ugly head" s/b "its head" since "it's" means "it is." "Its" with no apostrophe is possessive.

I think the "brown" people(as you call them) knew very well it was inappropriate . But you are right that it was the teachers present who were responsible for insuring it did not happen. That is why the school is being sued and not the Mosque.
Commissioner Wong said teachers were told students shouldn’t have been allowed to pray.

“We’re giving better guidance to our teachers. I don’t know if they’ll do [the field trip] differently but it won’t necessarily be because of this,”....“I support the field trip, I support them being able to go to observe; I do think allowing kids to participate in the prayer crossed the line.”

Liberal racism rears it's ugly head again.Hello my UN-liberal friends:

Calling a white guy, a white guy isn't racism. Calling brown people, brown, or even (heaven forbid), black, isn't racism either...

If only you guys could get a grip in what racism IS, maybe you could help stamp it out. Here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi19yLcGk8c)an example of racism on FOX... Interestingly, Republican Al D'Amato goes postal on the guy...

excon

I think the "brown" people(as you call them) knew very well it was inappropriate .
The hosts were brown; the guests were white. Look at the video. Had The Blue Men Group been there, I would have mentioned them by color too.

The students and chaperones were guests. Had there been baklava handed out, would the students have wanted some? Same for the experience of praying -- unlike in Western religions, the pray-er has to get down on all fours, lean forward with forehead touching the floor, etc. etc. etc. Sounds like a fun thing to try. And a Christian minister/priest would have surely invited Muslim students to pray along or participate in part of a impromptu worship service -- be an acolyte for five minutes or carry the cross in a pretend procession.

I've been to the D'Amato post office.

Here's a good example of a racist comment.
YouTube - Joe Biden's racist slip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM19YOqs7hU)

And a Christian minister/priest would have surely invited Muslim students to pray along or participate in part of a impromptu worship service -- be an acolyte for five minutes or carry the cross in a pretend procession.


And that would've been equally inappropriate. The only real difference is the reaction if it had happened in a church would've garnered all types of MSM condemnation . In this case it's dismissed as ' isn't no big thing'.

And that would've been equally inappropriate.
True, but it's what religious leaders of all faiths do -- not to proselytize but to help others understand and experience. The leaders of this student group did not have any imagination or a proper discussion with the Muslims as to what would happen during the tour. I was a teacher and took/went with many groups on field trips. The leaders have to think outside the box to imagine all sorts of scenarios and prepare for them. These mosque visitors did an abysmal job of preparing.

If they are exercising their rights, what's to report? I don't get it.

Exactly. Think about it.

What exactly was the chaperone supposed to do ? Create a scene in the Mosque ? Physically prevent the students from participating ?
No, of course she wasn't supposed to create a scene. I actually answered that in my previous post:


Please give some thought to this: If one of the 5 children was hers don't you think she would have grabbed him/her and kept them from joining in the prayer service? Wouldn't you if the child was yours? I certainly would. And, I would expect you as another parent to quietly and kindly tell the lady who was conducting the tour that she is entitled to her beliefs but this is considered a learning experience, not a participating one, and immediately hustle those children out of there. In my experience, most kids still have a tendency to listen to & follow the direction of their friends' parents more than their own parents or their teachers. She wasn't in a position where she had to deal with this alone. With 200 children on the tour, there were more than just a couple of chaperones. Other parents and teachers were on the tour. I am left wondering why she didn't flag down at least one other adult, point out what was going on, and request their help to stop it from going any further.


The bottom line here is that parents signed a permission slip to have their children observe. Knelling in prayer is not observing. I am not really interested in a possible motive for the taping other than the fact that one of the chaperone's had a camera available to record this so the denials could be nipped in the bud. I agree the purpose was to observe. That is why I have such a hard time understanding why she chose to stand idly by during the entire "indoctrination" talk/speech the guide was giving. My point is, from these articles and the clips we see, it appears she made the decision to wait it out and videotape the students praying rather than, as soon as she heard what the mosque rep was saying, grab the attention of other chaperones/teachers, tell them what was going on and politely interrupt the tour guide prior to the children even given the opportunity to consider participating. Honestly, I don't have a problem with her videotaping the tour. As a matter of fact, that video camera was the perfect tool to use while this "indoctrination" was taking place. She could have chosen to use it while politely attempting to stop the coercion of the children. If the guide knew she was being taped, she might have backed off. It would have placed on record that she (Mom) attempted to stop the nonsense. But it appears from the reports & her tape that she didn't. My question to her is, why? It will be interesting to see if any other parent sues the school and doesn't include her in the lawsuit. It will also be interesting to see how far this lawsuit of hers will go and what the result will be.

As a secondary point I suppose the chaperone's motives are interesting . But it is being used in this discussion to distract from the underlying issue. This never should've happened.

The fact that this mosque has been the destination of other similar field trips that presumable were not taped ,I have to wonder how extensive the proselytization is... and how many other vulnerable boys have been enticed to participate during those trips ?

I have to wonder how extensive the proselytization is...and how many other vulnerable boys have been enticed to participate during those trips ?Hello again, tom:

When I was a young and impressionable boy scout, my very Christian scout leader made us go to church when we were on a weekend camping trip. I don't know what kind of church is was, exactly, but when everybody else went up to receive holy communion, I did too.

I can assure you, it didn't sway me.

What I find curious, though, is this mysterious power you think Muslims have... If you're not quick enough, they'll proselytize your children. If you don't pay attention, they'll institute Sharia law... I don't know where that comes from.

Oh, if you listen to Newt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMvQ95ftvYI), you'd believe it... But, he just wants to scare you.

excon

Newt is fat Elvis . I don't take him seriously.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-09-17/newt-gingrichs-weird-hold-on-house-gop-leaders/?om_rid=CkonFZ&om_mid=_BMlL38B8UvAK6a
I love it that now you think this religious exposure isn't no big thing. This certainly deviates from your previous position on the subject.

Don't worry . Soon if the President has his way ,all reference to God will be scrubbed from the Declaration of Independence.

As a secondary point I suppose the chaperone's motives are interesting . But it is being used in this discussion to distract from the underlying issue. This never should've happened.
It never should have happened, and once it did, it should have been stopped. Both were the fault of the white guys.

and how many other vulnerable boys have been enticed to participate during those trips?
I'm guessing those "vulnerable boys" forgot about it the minute they got back on the bus. Being a Muslim is an awful lot of work.

I love it that now you think this religious exposure aint no big thing. This certainly deviates from your previous postion on the subject. Hello again, tom:

I'm not quite sure where I said it "ain't no big thing". I have NOT changed my mind. It is UNCONSTITUTIONAL for a school to arrange a visit to a mosque.

excon

What I find curious, though, is this mysterious power you think Muslims have... If you're not quick enough, they'll proselytize your children. If you don't pay attention, they'll institute Sharia law... I dunno where that comes from.
Isn't that what homosexuals are supposedly doing to our youth -- proselytizing and sucking them in? And who is saying all this stuff is happening??

The signs of Sharia in Dearborn Michigan (http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/12717)

Its already happening in Dearborn Michigan. The Muslims Imposing Sharia on the non-muslims. Where is the ACLU... nowhere around is the answer.

As a secondary point I suppose the chaperone's motives are interesting . But it is being used in this discussion to distract from the underlying issue. This never should've happened. I agree this never should have happened but, unfortunately it did. It really pisses me off the mosque's rep/guide chose to use a field trip as an excuse to proselytize. However, I don't consider the chaperone's motives are a secondary point to this discussion because but for the actions or inactions as the case may be, taken by that mother, those 5 children might have been stopped from participating.

You bring up a very good point/question:


The fact that this mosque has been the destination of other simular field trips that presumable were not taped,I have to wonder how extensive the proselytization is...and how many other vulnerable boys have been enticed to participate during those trips ?
I checked the MAS web site. It appears they do conduct these tours on a regular basis. I have to wonder why we haven't heard anything about this before unless this is the first time it occurred.? I can't believe that children who might have participated wouldn't say anything to their parents? I also can't believe that if this has occurred before how any parent would choose to ignore it and not make noise about it. I know I would if it was me. I am hopeful we will see some answers soon but you know how I feel about the media. If there isn't a good hook to a story or if they can't twist things to grab public attention, the story will die a quick death. BTW, here is a link to the MAS web site if you are interested in their side of the story. Of course, they have a completely different take on what happened and claim the rep was not proselytizing or attempting to convert anyone.
MAS Boston's Home Page (http://www.masboston.org/)

they have a completely different take on what happened and claim the rep was not proselytizing or attempting to convert anyone.

The video shows a different story even if they choose to call it something else.

I can't believe that children who might have participated wouldn't say anything to their parents?
It happens more often than you think. There are specific links I could provide . Suffice it to say that they are about culturally sensitive issues that would hopelessly divert this thred off track .

Its also been tried in Minniapolis/St Paul...

Sharia Law: Effects on and in America - by JD Russell - Helium (http://www.helium.com/items/239642-sharia-law-effects-on-and-in-america)

I agree this never should have happened but, unfortunately it did. It really pisses me off the mosque's rep/guide chose to use a field trip as an excuse to proselytize. However, I don't consider the chaperone's motives are a secondary point to this discussion because but for the actions or inactions as the case may be, taken by that mother, those 5 children might have been stopped from participating.

You bring up a very good point/question:

I checked the MAS web site. It appears they do conduct these tours on a regular basis. I have to wonder why we haven't heard anything about this before unless this is the first time it occured. ???? I can't believe that children who might have participated wouldn't say anything to their parents? I also can't believe that if this has occured before how any parent would choose to ignore it and not make noise about it. I know I would if it was me. I am hopeful we will see some answers soon but you know how I feel about the media. If there isn't a good hook to a story or if they can't twist things to grab public attention, the story will die a quick death. BTW, here is a link to the MAS web site if you are interested in their side of the story. Of course, they have a completely different take on what happened and claim the rep was not proselytizing or attempting to convert anyone.
MAS Boston's Home Page (http://www.masboston.org/)


It doesn't matter if the parrents approved the trip or not... it was done on public school hours using public school equipment.

If Public school students aren't allowed to properly celibrate Christmas... a Christian Holiday and mention Christ... then exactly by what stretch of the imagination is it somehow fine to drag kids that should be learning important things to an Islamic Mosque, I'm still waiting to hear about the follow up trips to a Catholic Cathedral, A Jewish Temple, and a Protestant church. Oh right... you aren't allowed to do THAT in a public school.

Its also been tried in Minniapolis/St Paul....Hello again, smoothy:

--------------
"The dangerous plan to bring Sharia Law to America by various Radical Islamic Groups residing in America under the guise and use of democracy laws is slowly becoming a reality.

The assault on the American democratic way of life is being carried out right now on America's door step.

Recently, Somali taxi cab drivers of Islamic faith adhering to Sharia Law in Minneapolis-ST Paul refused to transport passengers from the airport because the passengers were carrying unopened bottles of liquor. This religious act of refusal is the first public shot across the bow in America as the global plan to compel America and the rest of the world to submit to Islam enters a new phase."
------------------------------------

That's it?? Cab drivers?? And, you're SCARED?? Dude!

You said in your post it's been "tried"... Nobody said, certainly not me, that Muslims aren't going to TRY to change the laws... EVERY group in America wants to CHANGE a law to suit themselves... What's new about that??

All I've said, and I STILL say it, is that our Constitution can withstand such assaults. My question for you, is why you think it won't.

excon

All I've said, and I STILL say it, is that our Constitution can withstand such assaults. My question for you, is why you think it won't.

excon

You're right on this point, Ex. Capitalism will win this round. If the cab drivers only take passengers with no booze or pork rinds and only get their same share of other fares, they are driving their income down. Cabbies don't usually make enough for this political statement to last very long unless they get subsidized by their mosque. If they do, Capitalism still wins as the subsidy won't then pay for a bomb or a passport to Yemen.

The left is currently argueing and pretending Muslims have NEVER tried to do it here, and that it wouldn't be allowed (force Sharia onto Americans)... when in fact it is. And that's not considering situations they have gotten it in under the pretext of binding arbitration...

How would YOU like to be bound to dispute resolution via arbitration (store, or any other source at all) that turns out to be Sharia in disguise.

Need an analogy of how they are approaching this...

And they are piecemeal... just like the gungrabbers on the left have been doing with gun control laws... get the foot in the door and keep ratcheting it up a little at a time to not raise too much attention to what they are actually trying to do.


Just like cooking a frog in an open pot... throw the frog in a pot of hot water and it jumps out immediately... but put it a pot of cool water and slowly turn up the heat and you have boiled frog because by the time it knew what was going on it was too late.

And it really isn't any different with taxes... or entitlement programs, Little bit now... a little more later, next thing you have over 38% of the population contributing nothing and the rest paying for their handouts.


And what better way than take impressionable kids to feed them propaganda how nice and friendly Islam is... without actually telling them the truth about it.

Getting that foot further in the door...

And what better way than take impressionable kids to feed them propaganda how nice and friendly Islam is.....without actually telling them the truth about it.
It was the school that imposed themselves on the Muslims, not the other way around.

It was the school that imposed themselves on the Muslims, not the other way around.

Schools typically don't impose themselves on field trips. The mosque hosted the event, it was no imposition.

It was the school that imposed themselves on the Muslims, not the other way around.

Really... then whose bright idea was it to drag the kids to a Mosque, against Federal law if it wasn't a Muslim that sold the IDEA to someone in the School. Teachers don't have that authority... much less the 6th grade students. Someone approved that trip in the schools administration.

That someone should be fired and forced to repay the total costs of said trip, and should be charged with missappropriation of school funds and assets.

Any proof of which side initiated it? The answer of which actually is irrelevant based on the fact School resources were spent on school hours (all from Taxpayers pockets) to drag kids to a Mosque when equivalent homage isn't allowed to be paid to other major religions.

Really... then whose bright idea was it to drag the kids to a Mosque,
Every year our school set aside one week of pure hands-on, practical learning and field trips, but no classes. We took the kids horseback riding, to Maywood Park (horse racing track and heard about the betting process), went to Cosley Park (petting zoo with amazing kinds of animals), had a class on manners and poise, did all kinds of crafts and baked bread, toured area museums and places of interest (e.g. a Unity Temple and a Jewish synagogue) and so on. The students signed up or what they wanted to do each day, and the parent signed permission slips. Kids/parents paid nominal fees, as required. The school owned a bus, so transportation came out of school funds. And oh yes, all of this was presented ahead of time at a PTA meeting, so the parents would know what would be going on.

a Muslim that sold the IDEA to someone in the School.
Good grief, smoothy. They were studying this in Civics. You don't think a Caucasian would be able to come up with the idea to visit a mosque for a field trip?

Teachers don't have that authority... much less the 6th grade students. Someone approved that trip in the schools administration.
Schools have planning meetings. The teachers and the principal sit around a table on a regular basis and talk about planning and field trips. In my experience, a trip like this didn't have to go above the principal for approval.

someone should be fired and forced to repay the total costs of said trip, and should be charged with missappropriation of school funds and assets.
That's a bit wild and crazy. An apology was made immediately afterwards. That should be sufficient. Are there parents who are wild-eyed about it?

Any proof of which side initiated it? The answer of which actually is irrelevant based on the fact School resources were spent on school hours (all from Taxpayers pockets) to drag kids to a Mosque when equivalent homage isn't allowed to be paid to other major religions.
My years as a teacher tell me the school initiated it. The field trip idea was a good one, but the trip got out of hand. It's sort of like a field trip to the zoo. One student decides to be a showoff and jumps over the fence and is mauled by a tiger. Was the trip a bad idea? No. Was the outcome not so good? Yes.

Every year our school set aside one week of pure hands-on, practical learning and field trips, but no classes. We took the kids horseback riding, to Maywood Park (horse racing track and heard about the betting process), went to Cosley Park (petting zoo with amazing kinds of animals), had a class on manners and poise, did all kinds of crafts and baked bread, toured area museums and places of interest (e.g., a Unity Temple and a Jewish synagogue) and so on. The students signed up or what they wanted to do each day, and the parent signed permission slips. Kids/parents paid nominal fees, as required. The school owned a bus, so transportation came out of school funds. And oh yes, all of this was presented ahead of time at a PTA meeting, so the parents would know what would be going on.

Good grief, smoothy. They were studying this in Civics. You don't think a Caucasian would be able to come up with the idea to visit a mosque for a field trip?

Schools have planning meetings. The teachers and the principal sit around a table on a regular basis and talk about planning and field trips. In my experience, a trip like this didn't have to go above the principal for approval.

That's a bit wild and crazy. An apology was made immediately afterwards. That should be sufficient. Are there parents who are wild-eyed about it?

You have some strange schools where you live. I went to public schools... and trips need busses... busses have to be paid for because drivers... feul etc... A teacher can't say gimme 3 busses... and they simply say sure just like that, with all the crying about how tight bugets are. I knew too many people that are teachers as well as several who were school administrators. All of this requires spending... teachers don't have check writing authority. THat sort of thing doesn't happen in the School distric I attended , nor the one that's bleeding me dry where I live now. Which is a very well funded school system.

I don't buy the Apology bull... IF there really was an apology its only because they got caught, not because they were sorry they did it..

Typical action of someone pushing an agenda... they just do what they want and appologize later... they got to do what they wanted... they new if they sought approval before they wouldn't get it.

Still teachers don't simply get busses at their request. That tells me higher ups knew about this in advance, (buss drivers aren't like Chaufers waiting for a last minute trip. and yeah I know three school bus drivers too)... and knew it was a violation of the law and didn't care because as long as its part of their agenda they will try to justify it somehow later.

The left is currently argueing and pretending Muslims have NEVER tried to do it here, and that it wouldn't be allowed (force Sharia onto Americans)....when in fact it is..Hello again, smoothy:

So you DO think the Constitution is weak and UNABLE to withstand an assault by a few cab drivers... Dude! For a Constitution loving Tea Partier, you don't think much of it, do you??

excon

Hello again, smoothy:

So you DO think the Constitution is weak and UNABLE to withstand an assault by a few cab drivers.... Dude! For a Constitution loving Tea Partier, you don't think much of it, do you???

excon

Here is where the problem is. How far do you bend for one religion? Did these drivers receive punishment if the rule is to take fares as they appear? Was their license taken away or suspended for forcing their religious belief on others? Lets face it. If you don't want a job that is against your religion then don't take it. Here is yet another example of public spending going to a religion.

LiveLeak.com - Airports Install Foot Wash Basins For Muslims And Their Rituals (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ff0_1190426161)


Looks like acceptance rather then saying to not violate our laws and regulations.

So you DO think the Constitution is weak and UNABLE to withstand an assault by a few cab drivers.... Dude! For a Constitution loving Tea Partier, you don't think much of it, do you???

You sure seem to think it won't withstand conservatives so why not? Anyway, it's called Sharia creep and it's been underway for years (http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=30103). But that's OK, it's no big deal, right?

I hope Santa brings me a cadet blue burqa for Christmas.

I hope Santa brings me a cadet blue burqa for Christmas.

Well, that sure beats "honor violence (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/a-question-of-honour-police-say-17000-women-are-victims-every-year-780522.html)," like the thousands of Muslim women in the UK are rewarded with every year.

Hello again, smoothy:

So you DO think the Constitution is weak and UNABLE to withstand an assault by a few cab drivers.... Dude! For a Constitution loving Tea Partier, you don't think much of it, do you???

exconDid you read the posts... Sharia IS already being impleminted in Dearborn Michigan, and as arbitration is other places... IN the USA not to mention Europe that is Finally waking up to what a threat to their way of life they allowed in.


YOU want a better compairison... lets talk the Lefts assult on Gun owners rights in conflict with the 2nd amendment... New York City and Chicago... apparently both places you aren't entitled to having 2nd amendment rights. THe Supreme court finally had the Wisdom to force DC to allow law abiding citizens the right to buy and own guns, and not let just the criminals have them.

Being on the left you should be intimately aware of the slow backdoor approach to force something on people that don't want it... incrementally.

Wasn't it Trotsky that wrote it after all, and the Dems have embraced it for decades.

New York City and Chicago....apparently both places you aren't entitled to having 2nd amendment rights
"Apparently" is a big word.

I hope Santa brings me a cadet blue burqa for Christmas.
Merry Christmas .
The Canvas Prison Ppt Presentation (http://www.authorstream.com/Presentation/stugacz-457535-the-canvas-prison/)

"Apparently" is a big word.

Telling the law abiding people in those cities they can't own handguns is a pretty big violation of their constitutional rights. As it was in DC until recently... and the pinheads running the City STILL are trying to deny what the court ordered.

You couldn't pay me enough to live in any of those places.

Telling the law abiding people in those cities they can't own handguns is a pretty big violation of their constitutional rights.
That's not true of Chicago.

That's not true of Chicago.

Chicago has one of the strictest gun control laws in the country now that DC law was overturned as unconstitutional.

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/07/chicagos-new-gun-law-goes-into-effect-today.html

Seriously you can't even carry you rgun into your own garage, or porch? So you violate the law just bringing it home or to a shooting range?

There should be NO restictions to gun ownership assuming you are not a Fellon or have diagnosed mental issues.

The only justification for liscenseing them is so they know who and what to take if the gun grabbers ever get the upper hand.

After all, you don't need a license to run off at the mouth in public. Or have kids... and both of those cause far more problems than gun ownership.

Chicago has one of the strictest gun control laws in the country
Key provisions of the ordinance include:
* Firearm sales will be banned in the city.
* Gun training totaling four hours in a classroom and an hour on a firing range will be required before getting a permit. But firing ranges are banned, so training must be completed outside Chicago.
* To transport a gun, it will have to be "broken down," not immediately accessible, unloaded, and in a firearm case.
* Firearms may be possessed only inside the dwelling. It will be illegal to have a gun in the garage, on porches or in the yard. Guns also will not be allowed in hotels, dorms and group-living facilities.

If I had my way, ALL guns would disappear. Let them fight it out with broom handles.

Key provisions of the ordinance include:
* Firearm sales will be banned in the city.
* Gun training totaling four hours in a classroom and an hour on a firing range will be required before getting a permit. But firing ranges are banned, so training must be completed outside Chicago.
* To transport a gun, it will have to be "broken down," not immediately accessible, unloaded, and in a firearm case.
* Firearms may be possessed only inside the dwelling. It will be illegal to have a gun in the garage, on porches or in the yard. Guns also will not be allowed in hotels, dorms and group-living facilities.

If I had my way, ALL guns would disappear. Let them fight it out with broom handles.

And the problem with what YOU just said is we ALL have the same right to have those weapons as you have to make that comment. Which is any less important... the 1st amendment or the second that assures you will actually have the 1st in the near future?

Or your right to defend yourseklf on your own property... something Chicago seems to think you can't do because you might shoot a criminal who is likely to be a registered democrat assulting you or robbing your house.

And there were cases in DC in recent years where an armed robber got shot and sometimes killed DURING an armed robbery and the City went after the home owner more aggressively than the robber... and cases where the robber sued the homeowner for shooting them DURING the robbery, and won.

Just some of the reasons I refuse to live in any leftytowns. Here in VA I have a right to a concealed carry permit (meaning they have to give it to me unless they can present a compelling legal reason NOT to)... the right to own unregistered weapons... don't have to pay ANY license fee to exercise my 2nd amendment rights, and I can shoot and kill any attempted robber... armed or not as long as I "feel" threatened by them on my own property... or as self defense off my property.

Yes... Virginia among others allows open carry without a license most places. Robbers never know who's carrying and who isn't, Unlike places like Chicago and NYC. Apparently residents of Chicago and NYC lack the maturity and emotional restraint to have or carry loaded weapons.

If I had my way, ALL guns would disappear. Let them fight it out with broom handles.

I want a much bigger stick than a broom handle if the bad guys show up, and it's my right to have one.

I want a much bigger stick than a broom handle if the bad guys show up, and it's my right to have one.
There won't be any bad guys.

There won't be any bad guys.

Nice wish to have... but its not going to happen in our lifetimes.