Hello:

In protest of what it calls a religion "of the devil," a nondenominational church in Gainesville, Florida, plans to host an "International Burn a Quran Day" on the ninth anniversary of the September 11, 2001, attacks.

The Dove World Outreach Center says it is hosting the event to remember 9/11 victims and take a stand against Islam. With promotions on its website and Facebook page, it invites Christians to burn the Muslim holy book at the church from 6 p.m. to 9 p.m.

"We believe that Islam is of the devil, that it's causing billions of people to go to hell, it is a deceptive religion, it is a violent religion and that is proven many, many times," Pastor Terry Jones said.

Certainly, this stuff acts as a recruitment tool for Al Quaida, and endangers our troops fighting alongside our Muslim allies. YOU, of course, said that it was a "myth". Apparently, General Patraus doesn't think so. He would know, wouldn't he?

But, what I REALLY want to know, though, is HOW you could possibly think that the stuff going on over here, like burn the Koran Day, DOESN'T effect how the Muslim world views us??

excon

PS> This is a volatile issue. If you get personal, I'll close the damn thing myself.

I believe you will find no one here that endorses this .

But what happened to the argument presented before that it's a rights issue and not one of perception and 'sensitivity' ?

But what happened to the argument presented before that it's a rights issue and not one of perception and 'sensitivity' ?Hello again, tom:

Nothing has changed. It's still a rights issue. I'd NEVER stop their book burning. The WONDERMENT has just switched sides... You wondered whether it was a good idea to offend the 9/11 family's. Me, and General Petraus, wonder if it's a good idea to offend the entire Muslim world.

excon

I'm unclear about your position. You are saying it's a bad idea to offend the entire Muslim world but it's OK to offend the 9-11 families and the 70% of New Yorkers who oppose the mosque placement . Why are the sensitivities of the Muslim world a greater concern ?

Me... I'm consistent . In both cases I say there is a right to do it;and in both cases I oppose it and would take every legal means necessary to prevent it.

I'm unclear about your position. You are saying it's a bad idea to offend the entire Muslim world but it's ok to offend the 9-11 families and the 70% of New Yorkers who oppose the mosque placement . Why are the sensitivities of the Muslim world a greater concern ? Hello tom:

(1) Because we are trying to win the hearts and minds of the Afghans, Iraqis, and others, so our boys can come home. (2) Because we want to prevent Al Quaida from getting BIGGER and STRONGER. If this stuff DOES what General Petraus and I say it does, then (3) we should STOP shooting ourselves in the foot. (4) Because, even our Muslim allies carry guns in very proximity to our own soldiers. (5) Because we are not at war with the 9/11 families and (6) the mosque did NOT attack their religion. (7) Because we want to prevent any more home grown terrorists.

You may see a tit for tat, but it ain't. It's not even close.

excon

Only in America do people have a right to their dumb, misguided, prejudiced ideas.

Greatly surprised that people make building a community center two blocks away and 9 years later, issue about Islam, and not get the survivors the grief counseling they really need back then. Election year BS to me, but the burning of the Qur'an is just prejudiced, in my opinion, and hate based, and ignorant.

The worst of the American way, you can blame your feelings on anything whether its right, or wrong. Doesn't seem to make a difference. I got one word for it all MISGUIDED FEAR! (okay TWO words).

I don't see it as tit for tat at all. I think both are wrong. Jihadistan has been at war against us for some time now . Evidently winning hearts and minds is a one way street . I have seen images of the American flag burning by mobs in the ummah for as long as I can remember.

This clown in Fla should be stopped and so should the placement of the mosque . Not because of constitutional rights, but because it's the right thing to do.

I believe you will find no one here that endorses this .

But what happened to the argument presented before that it's a rights issue and not one of perception and 'sensitivity' ?

Bingo!

Evidently winning hearts and minds is a one way street .Hello again, tom:

YES, it IS a one way street. This is the United States of America. We are EXCEPTIONAL. We don't REACT to the world. We LEAD the world.

You ARE consistent, though. Since we've been discussing this stuff, you have maintained that we didn't have to DO the right thing, because THEY don't. When we discussed torture, you told me how UNCIVILIZED they are towards us. When we discussed trials for them, you told me about how Daniel Pearl was beheaded without a trial.

Now, when our task IS to win the hearts and minds of the Muslim world, you tell me about how they burn our flag. Smoothy thinks there should be NO mosques here until there's a Christian church in Saudi Arabia. In a nutshell, you guys want us to act like them. You have since the beginning.

Well, we're NOT them. I've argued consistently, that we should ACT like Americans, not like our enemy's. This discussion is more of the same.

The question I proposed in my OP remains unanswered. Do you believe that the stuff we're doing, ala the mosque, and the book burning, pisses off the Muslims? Or do you just not care if it does? I'll bet it's the latter, and you don't want to admit it.

excon

But, what I REALLY want to know, though, is HOW you could possibly think that the stuff going on over here, like burn the Koran Day, DOESN'T effect how the Muslim world views us??

Apparently they're rioting in the streets over this according to what I heard on the radio just now. So if that's true, and judging by your position on this it probably is, wouldn't that throw a kink into the image of Islam as a peaceful, tolerant religion?

By the way, I also object to this stupid plan of the oxymoronic, or just plain moronic, Dove World Outreach Center. But it's a free country, right?

It cracks me up . Snoozeweek plants false stories about us flushing Korans down the toilet and the Ummah goes nuts. They went nuts when a cartoonist drew unflattering cartoons of Mohammed .
We should just ignore indignities against us because we are better people ? I don't get it .

There is still an inconsistency here. In once case (so long as our ox is being gored ) it is an absolute right... apparently because we are better people. But in the other case we must walk on egg shells lest we offend.

I oppose the burning of the Koran exactly because it is unAmerican.That is the exceptionalism you speak of .
I couldn't care less about their reaction .

So if that's true, and judging by your position on this it probably is, wouldn't that throw a kink into the image of Islam as a peaceful, tolerant religion?Hello Steve:

You've got me mixed up somebody else. I don't think Islam is a peaceful tolerant religion. I don't think ANY religion is. Which gives me pause... Tom doesn't want to cut 'em any slack because they burn our FLAG. I wonder how pissed off he (and you) would be if they burned bibles??

Your man, George W. Bush correctly said that we are NOT at war with Islam. We'd LIKE the Muslim world to believe it. But, I'm not even sure it's true. If I'M not sure, don't you think a few Muslims might not be either?

excon

The US military burned Bibles in Afghanistan. That must've been a hearts and minds thing too.
Military burns unsolicited Bibles sent to Afghanistan - CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/05/20/us.military.bibles.burned/index.html)

Exactly right, tom. I'd even go further and say that the left not only expects us to walk on eggshells lest we offend, conservatives should welcome the insults and labels thrown our way.

When called a racist, I should respond, "thank you sir! May I have another?" When called "teabagger" I should respond, "thank you sir! May I have another?" Etc, etc.

This is one of three discussions on this I've come across today, and none mentioned this part (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39032043/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/):


The warnings followed an angry protest on Monday by several hundred people in the Afghan capital, Kabul, who chanted "Death to America" as they denounced the planned burning event by the Gainesville, Florida-based Dove World Outreach Center church.

Perhaps I just answered my own question, I think the left just may agree with the "death to America" sentiment.

There is still an inconsistency here. Hello again, tom:

There is no inconsistency here. People don't have a right NOT to be offended. When SOME people utilize their Constitutional rights, it offends SOME people. When others utilize THEIR Constitutional rights, a different group is offended. Nobody is saying these people DON'T have rights.

However, if it was ME (and it IS), I'd worry LESS about offending the 9/11 family's than I would about offending a BILLION and a HALF Muslims...

excon

Hello Steve:

You've got me mixed up somebody else. I don't think Islam is a peaceful tolerant religion. I don't think ANY religion is. Which gives me pause....... Tom doesn't want to cut 'em any slack because they burn our FLAG. I wonder how pissed off he (and you) would be if they burned bibles???

Your man, George W. Bush correctly said that we are NOT at war with Islam. We'd LIKE the Muslim world to believe it. But, I'm not even sure it's true. If I'M not sure, don't you think a few Muslims might not be either?

I'm not mixing anything up, you thought it was going to cause problems and it did. Your position and the report I heard are in agreement.

I'll tell you what's mixed up though. It's that Christians and conservatives have been very vocal and very consistent about condemning the idiots and radicals among us like this church. We've been very consistent in condemning racism and hatred. The left has been very consistent in not only ignoring that fact but continuing to fuel the fire in labeling us as just the opposite.

As long as the left continues their intentional war on conservatives by portraying us ignorant, intolerant "racists" who are "at war with Islam" then yeah, I can see how Muslims would question whether we are at war with Islam. Me saying I'm not isn't enough, because no matter how many times I say it, someone keeps telling them otherwise and that pi$$es me off.

I wonder how many people that Supported Burning the American Flag as an expression of freadom of speech or actually DID burn a flag themselves are now trying to agrue burning a book ( and the Koran is nothing but a book ) is NOT a protected form of freedom of speech?

Not that I run around burning book, or flags... but I believe it is the right of every American to burn a Koran if they so wish as long as they aren't setting anything else on fire in the process.

Heaven knows the loons in the middle east with their panties in a knot thought it was mighty funny to be burning American flags if they weren't burning the actual Corpses of American soldiers.

Compare that with burning a book? Sorry... book does not equal human bodies. Book does not equal national flag.

And claiming it will recruit other Islamic idiots is a lame excuse... The radical Muslim Imams who can't get pretty women themselves do that if a koran gets burned or not.

YES, it IS a one way street. This is the United States of America. We are EXCEPTIONAL. We don't REACT to the world. We LEAD the world.

Where did you read that, Ex? Even your man Barack Griswold Obama doesn't believe in American exceptionalism, remember?

What do we lead the world in anymore? Lawyers? Psychobabble? Eco-freaks? Stupefying our children? When you and I were kids America out-produced, outfought, and out-thought the rest of the planet combined. Why did you soft-headed wrong-hearted Liberals fritter it away anyway?

What do we lead the world in anymore? Why did you soft-headed wrong-hearted Liberals fritter it away anyway?Hello again, Cats:

I was speaking specifically about human rights... You're correct, though. We frittered our leadership position away when we became torturers.. But, it wasn't liberals who did that. Nope. It surely wasn't.

excon

I hate to see any book burnt, I own a koran, and have read and studied it ( some) , I even hate to burn old worn out books, and even those that were flood damaged, ( but know some have to be)

I think this first is silly that this made any national attention and I blame the media for making this anything but a joke. Guys this is a church of what 20 to 40 people maybe ?

There is a black church in Atlanta of 100's calling white people the Devil and Satan, and they don't even get a mention.
The church where Obama belonged, talks bad about the US. no one cares, it does not make the news.

The "concerned black clergy" of Atlanta, make fools of themselves over arrested people, and political issues they know little about, and it never makes the news.

A little church with less people than I even preach too, wants to burn a book, and it makes national news.

Heck I would go burn a copy of Beethovens complete works, If I could get national attention, I may fill my pews with music haters perhaps.

The news camera need to go away, and no one show up but his few followers.

Now with that said, I will also say he has the legal right to express his views, and that includes him burning the book. It is a really pointless action, since his preaching his message of hate is really the same message.

You mean like the stellar treatment our prisoners got before they were lit on fire, and strung from bridges. Or those that had a slower death trapped on the upper levels of the twin towers knowing they were going to die.

Sorry, but NOTHING that was done to ANY prisoner by us rises to that level. And incidentally... I don't think any of it was torture... nor do I shed a single tear for any of them.

Under the international articles of war... every one of them could legitimately be exicuted as spies as they were NOT wearing a uniform, but dressed in civilian garb to evade detection.

And how anyone... can equate burning a work of fiction, and the Quran IS a work of fiction, praising a pedophile and murderer (mohamed the pig rapist) with anything is beyond comprehension.

Its just a freaking book.

But then... put an American flag over it and the lefties would be in a real big hurry to burn it. If it was related to the Bible and they would be screaming to ban it, but the Quaran and the left jumps up to defend the indefensible.

To the Muslims with their panties in a knot... get a life... respect is earned, and its time they started to earn it. They have done a dismal job so far. In fact its been 1,300 years with no real attempt yet except for maybe a handful of individuals.

Blaming danger to our troops on a freaking book being burned is stupid. Go back to the NUMEROUS terrorist activities by the Islamic Pig brigade since Ronald Regan was in office will show that a book getting burned 30 year AFTER this started has not one thing to do with anything, except them demanding special treatment no other religion gets... and the Left is willing to put Islam on a pedistle while deriding every other religion at the same time.

I'm sorry, I am not Muslim... I will never be muslim, and in fact if Muslims try to impose their freaking religion or Sharia on me I will be one of millions that will take up arms against them to prevent it.

Burn, baby, Burn!

Exie, NBC news just translated the concerns of one of the Afghan protesters. He said, "we call on America to stop desecrating our holy Koran."

Where did he get the idea, from one tiny insignificant 'church', that America is desecrating his holy Koran? I'm not desecrating his Koran, you're not desecrating his Koran, tom isn't desecrating his Koran, America has no policy of desecrating the Koran and I'm sure the vast majority of Americans - including conservatives, Christians, Republicans, etc. - don't endorse this church's plan.

So how did all of America become indicted for desecrating his Koran? I say it's the same way we allegedly indict "all of Islam," you guys make this stuff up. I've never done one thing to give that indication to anyone for either, but I'm apparently guilty of both injustices because you say so. I submit that IF our troops face any problems for this then YOU are to blame for propagating the myth instead of standing up for the truth of the matter.

Exie, NBC news just translated the concerns of one of the Afghan protesters. He said, "we call on America to stop desecrating our holy Koran."

Where did he get the idea, from one tiny insignificant 'church', that America is desecrating his holy Koran? I'm not desecrating his Koran, you're not desecrating his Koran, tom isn't desecrating his Koran, America has no policy of desecrating the Koran and I'm sure the vast majority of Americans - including conservatives, Christians, Republicans, etc. - don't endorse this church's plan.

So how did all of America become indicted for desecrating his Koran? I say it's the same way we allegedly indict "all of Islam," you guys make this stuff up. I've never done one thing to give that indication to anyone for either, but I'm apparently guilty of both injustices because you say so. I submit that IF our troops face any problems for this then YOU are to blame for propagating the myth instead of standing up for the truth of the matter.

There you have it, one lone voice, and panic. You cannot convince Muslims that what one group do isn't representative of your country, after all, their mentality is one in all in.

So how did all of America become indicted for desecrating his Koran? I say it's the same way we allegedly indict "all of Islam," Hello again, Steve:

The Arab world, as a whole, has NO concept of our First Amendment. When they see coverage of a Koran burning church, they think we ALL believe that. After all, their government can stop stuff like that. They assume ours can too.

I agree with you, though. When we see a small group of radical Muslims burning a flag and shouting death to America, we think they ALL believe that.

excon

I am just wondering why the activities of an insignificant kook minister with a congregation of 50 is garnering international attention .
I think there is incitement here all right .Incitement that is being stoked by the press.

Hello again, Steve:

The Arab world, as a whole, has NO concept of our First Amendment. When they see coverage of a Koran burning church, they think we ALL believe that. After all, their government can stop stuff like that. They assume ours can too.

I agree with you, though. When we see a small group of radical Muslims burning a flag and shouting death to America, we think they ALL believe that.

excon

Actually you have this wrong. Their government can't stop it from happening. But in their country the penalty would be death. That is where the break occurs. In this country they won't be put to death. They might with the threats that are coming their way. Maybe it might make the radicals mad enough they will ban together and put on a uniform and start fighting.

I think not.

The Arab world, as a whole, has NO concept of our First Amendment. When they see coverage of a Koran burning church, they think we ALL believe that. After all, their government can stop stuff like that. They assume ours can too.

Then stop giving them the coverage.


I agree with you, though. When we see a small group of radical Muslims burning a flag and shouting death to America, we think they ALL believe that.

What is this "we?" You just validated my point, I'm not the one saying they all believe that, you are. I was kind enough to tell the world that you aren't desecrating the Koran, but you failed to acknowledge that I and the rest of America aren't desecrating it either. The compliant media is aiding and abetting you in spreading the myth and stoking the fire. Any blood that comes of this is on your hands, not mine.

Edited see below.

Funny how when it's the Mafia that says to a business owner... we can't guarantee the safety of your shop unless you do what we say and buy insurance... its extortion and threats. And a violation if RICO laws

When its Muslims that say, do as we tell you by A: not exercising your constitutional right to burn a book, or B: let us build our Mohammet Attah memorial mosque 2 blocks from ground zero ----- or we can't guarantee you the safety of Americans anywhere. To the left that isn't extortion or threats, but something they are entitled to because they are a special. Islam makes the Mafia look like two bit hoods when it comes to threats, intimdation, murder and a multitude of crimes against humanity.

Hello again,

Daniel Pipes, a right wing Islamist hater of the first order, has this (http://www.meforum.org/pipes/8850/americans-wake-up-to-islamism) to say:

"The energetic push-back of recent months finds me partially elated: Those who reject Islamism and all its works now constitute a majority and are on the march. For the first time in fifteen years, I feel I may be on the winning team.

But I have one concern: the team's increasing anti-Islamic tone. Misled by the Islamists' insistence that there can be no such thing as “moderate Islam,” my allies often fail to distinguish between Islam (a faith) and Islamism (a radical utopian ideology aiming to implement Islamic laws in their totality). This amounts to not just an intellectual error but a policy dead end. Targeting all Muslims is contrary to basic Western notions, lumps friends with foes, and ignores the inescapable fact that Muslims alone can offer an antidote to Islamism."

I may be dreaming it up, but PIPES??

excon

Islam has as much to do with terrorists, and extremist, as the KKK had to do with Christianity.

Spreading hate, lies, and ignorance and fear is against Islam, and Christianity, and is accepted by both (as well as other religions) as the works of the devil, the lesser god. Men have a choice in their actions, and only can hold themselves responsible for it.

Islam has as much to do with terrorists, and extremist, as the KKK had to do with Christianity.

Spreading hate, lies, and ignorance and fear is against Islam, and Christianity, and is accepted by both (as well as other religions) as the works of the devil, the lesser god. Men have a choice in their actions, and only can hold themselves responsible for it.

Poor comparison... there are far more Islamic radicals than there ever were KKK members.

Page 4 of the following document gives numbers...

http://pewglobal.org/files/pdf/253.pdf

Factor in the NUMBER of Muslims then these percentages show to be at a minimum hundreds of millions in support of terrorism since they claim 1.5 billion whoreshipers. And it does vary greatly country by country.

Major Religions Ranked by Size (http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html)

Even at their Peak the KKK had HOW many members? And no wikipedia numbers.

Islam isn't simply a religion... its a mistake to think it is. Its an all encompassing method of subjugation of the population. The religion itself is not the worst part of Islam.

my allies often fail to distinguish between Islam (a faith) and Islamism (a radical utopian ideology aiming to implement Islamic laws in their totality).

I on the other hand have made that distinction clear for almost a decade. That is why I call the enemy 'jihadistan' to separate the political from the faith.

The real question that has to be asked is how many Muslims are adherents to the radical political brand?. and are Mosques in this country being used to recruit jihadists ?
Unfortunately ,much of the recruitment to the jihad occures in the Mosques and madrassas . It is therefore imperitive that we do not allow the houses of worship in this country to be used as places of recruitment . I'm sure you would agree that preventing that does not violate any 1st amendment concerns.

The real question that has to be asked is how many Muslims are adherents to the radical political brand ? ...and are Mosques in this country being used to recruit jihadists ?Hello again, tom:

It's a good question. I too, have one. Which came first - mosque's that recruit, or assaults upon ones religion which RESULTS in mosque's that recruit?

Given the long list of nasty things we did to them, beginning with our invasion of a country that DIDN'T attack us, Abu Grahib, Gitmo, torture, rendition, secret black prisons, military tribunals, unlimited detention, drone attacks, zillions of civilian casualties, anger at building a mosque near ground zero, burning the koran, and a few other lesser items, I'd say it's OUR behavior that's causing Al Quaida recruits...

You seem to think, on the other hand, that recruitment happens in a vacuum, simply because the mosques are there, all the while IGNORING the list of assaults we perpetrated upon them...

excon

I can agree with there being a lot of radicals, that's a given, but I think that judging a people (or a religion) by how some of the leaders (and followers) use their excuse of "GOD" is missing the greater point, that even Christianity, (and most major religions) have the same thing in them, as many religious leaders have used. And continue to use religion as a tool to subjugate, and control their populations in an effort to keep power for their own purposes.

History is full of such examples. And while the KKK didn't have the numbers as you say, they still reeked havoc, and fear on a race of people for many years, and still do. So numbers mean nothing, its words and actions that do.

While I agree we as Americans should not live in fear, and base actions on the way others perceive, spin, or use those actions for whatever purpose, we still have to stick to our own defined boundaries of good behavior when dealing with other nations and people who are different.

To blame Islam for our ills, is as misguided as this idiot burning Qur'ans to make his point. He has a right to do it, and I have a right to call him names for it. And even protest loudly about it.

Ex , Did the Nazi's in Germany have a legitimate grievience ? They thought they did .It was the slight of the treaty ending WWI that was their reason.
However the underlying radical philosophy existed long before Hitler .

I happen to know that jihadist recruitment began long before our involvement in the ME... and in fact it predates our existence as a nation or even a place Europeans know about.
The quest for a world wide Califate through conquest began with Mohammed the warrior .
I may not be greatly schooled in the religion he designed . But I am fairly schooled on the historical Mohammed . Much of the tactics employed today by jihadistan comes from his playbook.

I'm not giving a free pass to the KKK any more than I would to any other group that preachs racism at its core... and every group and race has them. Blacks included.

But when you have the radicals in numbers of tens of millions and hunfreds of millions with little to no obvious effort to stop or disuade them, then you do have to hold the entire group accountible.

After all, were not the KKK, relentlessly pursued and held accountible. Are not all members of the KKK held accountible for the actions of a few?

And you see, while this Preacher does have the right to burn as many Korans as he wants... nobody, has the right to threaten the lives of others because he was allowed to do it.

And that's EXACTLY what Islam does...

Let us build out terrorist memorial near ground zero, or somebodies going to get hurt.

Don't let that preacher exercise his 1st amendment rights or somebodies going to get hurt.

Islam = Thugs.

See the parallel to organised crime? I do.

And 99% of world terrorism.. IS Islamic in Nature...

There is not one Islamic nation on the planet that shows respect to those of another faith... and in many Islamic nations it goes far beyond disrespect.

Try to enter Mecca or Medina as a non-muslim... try to enter Saudi arabia with a box of Bibles, or Iran... whats going to happen? It won't be pretty.

At its core Islam is not about peace... its about conquest and forcing people into submission... and killing those who won't. They KILL Christian missionaries in Muslim countries... frequently.

Islam means submission... which it forces upon anyone in their reach. It's their primary purpose, and one that is never out of their mind.

I feel as this event will give a push to Muslims who are thinking about becoming terrorists. Just like when they drag our soldiers bodies through the streets gives a kid a push to join the military.

They don't need a push... their culture and their Religious leaders rely on hatred to push the blame of the problems their own society has that are of their own creation on others rather than addressing and fixing them.

I'm curious as to why our State Department would label this idiot's first amendment expression as "un-American." Wasn't it entirely American to burn our flag or place the crucifix of those bitter gun clingers in a jar or urine and call it art?

Exactly when is it OK to offend Muslims? Ever?

I'm curious as to why our State Department would label this idiot's first amendment expression as "un-American." Wasn't it entirely American to burn our flag or place the crucifix of those bitter gun clingers in a jar or urine and call it art?

Exactly when is it OK to offend Muslims? Ever?

And the Democrats don't understand its stuff like THIS that makes most Americans question if Obama is a Muslim and not a Christian.

Christians don't get the same respect or treatment from this administration in our own country any more than we get from ANY muslim country on the planet..

Isn't it "un-American" to be intolerant of any religion?

Isn't it "un-American" to be intolerant of any religion?

Tell that to the Atheists and agnostics that have fought against any public display by a Christian or Jewish group or individual.

And incidentally... Labling Islam simply a religion is ignoring reality. Islam also is a political system, it's a legal system... as it dominates every aspect of anyone unfortunate enough to be subjected to its life.

And it's that, that makes it far more dangerous. Islam calls for and demands essentually a complete dismantling of not only the American Constitution, but taking away of the complete bill of rights, and the legal system.

Islam is Anti-American (and Anti-western) at its core... and incompatible with human rights, and civil liberties. And is incompatible and completely intollerant of other religions anyplace they have ammassed suficient numbers.

Well I wasn't singling out Islam I know it is more then a religion. On private property you can display whatever you like on Public property then you have to deal with a separation between church and state.

Me personally I am an Atheists and if the guy across the street wanted to put a Big Cross up in his yard I would help him put it up. And if the Government wanted to put the 10 Commandments in a state park I wouldn't care either. I just ignore it cause it doesn't change the way I live one bit.

Islam is Anti-American (and Anti-western) at its core.....

Correct me if I am wrong but Islam has been around since about the 7th Century. So how can it be Anti-American "at it's core" since America wasn't even a country then?

Correct me if I am wrong but Islam has been around since about the 7th Century. So how can it be Anti-American "at it's core" since America wasn't even a country then?

Christianity is Older... and Judaism is thousands of years older than Christianity.

There is nothing in Islam that is compatible with either our constitution or our Bill of rights. Its incompatible with all other religions... and Atheists and Agnostics should be particularly concerned because there is no such thing as separation of church and state where Islam takes over... the Religion and its flunkies WILL control every aspect of your life.

Christians never wanted or tried to do that. Wait until the Islamic cleric nutcase demands your sister or mother be stoned to death for refusing to wear a potato sack over their head, or talked to a man not related to them... or drove a car or any other number of things.

Ok now I know you are crazy. At first I just thought you were crazy but thinking we are going to be taken over by Islam confirms it.

Check your history again, Christianity, and Islam were born of the same tree, and as Judaism, share the same old testament between them. Hmmmmm! Wonder how that happened? Or why?


And incidentally... Labling Islam simply a religion is ignoring reality. Islam also is a political system, it's a legal system... as it dominates every aspect of anyone unfortunate enough to be subjected to its life.

The same can be said for ALL religions. What's new??

Ok now I know you are crazy. At first I just thought you were crazy but thinking we are going to be taken over by Islam confirms it.

Really... open a history book. There is 1,300 years of past actions in the name of Islam backing up what I said... their own docterine of telling muslims to lie to non-muslims in oder to placate them so they can get their way in the end...

There is WHAT as evidence that contradicts what I said, or History for that matter? That comes from a non-muslim source.

Funny how Atheists have a major problem with displays of Christianity... but are perfectly happy to live under Sharia, which contrary to your belief they wish to empose on everyone as their goal of Calephate covering the planet.

Check your history again, Christianity, and Islam were born of the same tree, and as Judaism, share the same old testament between them. Hmmmmm! Wonder how that happened? or why?



The same can be said for ALL religions. Whats new???

Show another religion that Demands a specific code of laws, a specific political system, a specific code you WILL live by of everything will be brought to bear on you. That will dictate every aspoect of your life cradle to grave.


I'm a Christian... it doesn't exist in Christianity, I know it also doesn't exist in Judaism... and none of the eastern religions I know of... EXCEPT Islam.

There is a concept that is very unislamic...

"Render unto Caeser what is Caesers" which shows Christianity ISN't anything like Islam. Islam wants to control EVERYTHING... the only major religion that does.

Show another religion that Demands a specific code of laws, a specific political system, a specific code you WILL live by of everything will be brought to bear on you. That will dictate every aspoect of your life cradle to grave.
I'm a Christian....it doesn't exist in Christianity, I know it also doesn't exist in Judaism....and none of the eastern religions I know of....EXCEPT Islam.

There is a concept that is very unislamic...

"Render unto Caeser what is Caesers" which shows Christianity ISN't anything like Islam. Islam wants to control EVERYTHING....the only major religion that does.
Christianity does that, and has 10 commandments that are to this day punishable by law. American law is based on Christian principle, ask any American who is a Christian.

"Render unto Caesar what is Caesars" and to God what is Gods.

Actually that is very much Islamic. I am not a Christian, or a Muslim, and you both look more alike than you are different to me.

Christianity does that, and has 10 commandments that are to this day punishable by law. American law is based on Christian principle, ask any American who is a Christian.

"Render unto Caesar what is Caesars" and to God what is Gods.

Actually that is very much Islamic. I am not a Christian, or a Muslim, and you both look more alike than you are different to me.

You are acting like they are the same... when they are nothing alike.

Where exactly in the Christian world does the church run everything, the legal, political, legislative, the private everything including how you act at home and what you can and can not do with your wife, your livestock... ALONG with the Church?

This happens in every muslim majority country... and the few that don't control every aspect of your life... they are attempting to take that too. Witness the trouble they are having in Turkey where the Islamist whack jobs can't stand people making their own decisions.. they are trying to force Sharia law down everyone's throats there too.

Look in Iran... typical Islamic Nation... fake elections everything run by Imams. Sharia law rules and women get stoned to death for not wearing the mandated potato sack outdoors.

Look at Saudi Arabia... the pillar of tollerance of Christianity and every other faith... and I'm being sarcastic there. There is nothing inclusive or tollerant about that country.

Isn't it "un-American" to be intolerant of any religion?

That wasn't the question, Spit. The question was why is our State Dept calling it "un-American" to exercise our guaranteed rights? It is intolerant to burn the Koran, I think it's absolutely the wrong thing to do intentionally poke all Muslims in the eye this way. It's also protected by our constitution, so while it may be intolerant our government should avoid calling the very rights it's charged with protecting, "un-American."

P.S. Go Cowboys :)

When you say they, you talk of a few that have power, and influence, I see the same thing here now, with the ones who have power and influence (or a TV camera stuck in their face). I see no difference.

You both holler I am right, and he is wrong, and that's the way its been with all the tribes when they have an area of contention. Was not Christianity spread more by war than peace? Ever think of what became of the ones they conquered?

It's a matter of history really, and because you no longer look to conquer with bullets and bayonets, doesn't mean everyone has reached that level of technology, or dominance with the new way of doing things, as compared to the old. Heck if all you got is rocks and spears, that's all you got, until someone sells you a rifle.

Sorry Smoothy but you may take a higher view of your religion, because it is more technically advanced in some ways, but I see both religions, sitting on the same arguments and ideology of intolerance, advanced by true FEAR, and Ignorance of each other. I also see that changing in time, and you (and them) seeing more what I see, the amount of similarities, as opposed to pointing out the very small differences that you see through prejudiced eyes.

For sure, if a billion, and a half people were so intent as you say of taking over the world, I have no doubt that they would have done so centuries ago. But like Christianity, it comes in many forms and varieties, each with its own dogma and "differences" that they tout. But they all say they are right.

I see no differences between you.

Given the long list of nasty things we did to them, beginning with our invasion of a country that DIDN'T attack us, Abu Grahib, Gitmo, torture, rendition, secret black prisons, military tribunals, unlimited detention, drone attacks, zillions of civilian casualties, anger at building a mosque near ground zero, burning the koran, and a few other lesser items, I'd say it's OUR behavior that's causing Al Quaida recruits...

I think you should look a little further back, Ex. Say about 1300 years. Mohammed fought Jews in corpus. Then there's the Temple Mount, the Crusades, the Ottomans... and of course it didn't even start with Mohammed. Arabs and Persians have been fighting Hebrews and other Western tribes since prehistory.

Who treated the other worse is kind of a silly, pointless exercise in historical speculation.

I have a real problem with burning books.It is ugly ,unChristian . If anyone is looking for moral equivalence ,compare it to the destruction of the Buddha statues at Bamyan by the Taliban .
Intolerance is a silly word to use here. Intolerance of evil is acceptable. But I think the clown pastor who's flock is smaller than a local chapter of the skinheads is displaying the same type of evil he condemns.

When you say they, you talk of a few that have power, and influence, I see the same thing here now, with the ones who have power and influence (or a TV camera stuck in their face). I see no difference.

You both holler I am right, and he is wrong, and thats the way its been with all the tribes when they have an area of contention. Was not Christianity spread more by war than peace? Ever think of what became of the ones they conquered?

Its a matter of history really, and because you no longer look to conquer with bullets and bayonets, doesn't mean everyone has reached that level of technology, or dominance with the new way of doing things, as compared to the old. Heck if all you got is rocks and spears, thats all you got, until someone sells you a rifle.

Sorry Smoothy but you may take a higher view of your religion, because it is more technically advanced in some ways, but I see both religions, sitting on the same arguments and ideology of intolerance, advanced by true FEAR, and Ignorance of each other. I also see that changing in time, and you (and them) seeing more what I see, the amount of similarities, as opposed to pointing out the very small differences that you see thru prejudiced eyes.

For sure, if a billion, and a half people were so intent as you say of taking over the world, I have no doubt that they would have done so centuries ago. But like Christianity, it comes in many forms and varieties, each with its own dogma and "differences" that they tout. But they all say they are right.

I see no differences between you.

Its more than a few... most Muslims are lemmings that believe anything they are told if an Imam does the telling. If an Imam said the world was flat... they would believe without question the world is flat. They have power because Muslims give them that power.

THOSE people have the power because Muslims #1. Think the same as they do, #2 or if they don't they automatically believe whatever they are told to believe, even when facts show the opposite.

If they do either... they share the blame.
The truly ignorant, refuse to remember history or the lessons it teaches us...

I see 1,300 years of oppression and subjegation of non-muslims by muslims... I see 1,300 years of Muslims being subjegated by other muslims. I don't ignore them because a political party tells me to ignore that in favor of political correctness.

Incidentally... I'm not catholic... the pope doesn't run my life, either my private life or my religious one.

You are ignoring the entire spread of Islam... NONE of it was peaceful, NONE of it was in lands full of Aetheists...

Islam has destroyed Christian Churches and Cathedrals in every land it conquered... it has killed every person who refused to convert... and its still happening today.

The "Mosque" two blocks from Ground Zero is a Victory Mosque, 1,300 years of history shows it is a recurring sybol of any site they conquer. And it was Muslims that brought down the Twin Towers, Not CHristians, not Taoists, not Budhists... the lunatic Imam who wants to build it has preached anti-american hatred and wants Sharia Law in the United states. He is on audio and video doing it... you must have seen or heard his rants by now.

Personally... IF they ever try that in my lifetime... I will kill any person who tries to force ANY aspect of Sharia Upon me or my family. I will kill as many Muslims as I can before I get stoopped because I will NOT live under Sharia or tolerate it in my own country.

And I am far from being alone, there will be millions right behind me... It's clear Obama wants sharia, and the Democrat party is fine with it too, it's just Christian symbolism that they fight against. Why do you think the Democrats want to disarm the American Public so badly? Because an armed populace will fight against something they believe strongly against. And its an armed Populace that will keep this country free of Islamic corruption. Heck I'll be the first to say our system isn't perfect... but in the same breath I'll say there is absolutely NOTHING I like about the Islamic system. Nothing, nada, niente, zip...


And a HUGE difference between Christianity and Islam you failed to mention.. you can say that here in a Christian country... in an Islamic country you would have been beheaded or stoned to death... if you were lucky enough not to get 100 lashes first.

Look what the Taliban does... look what happens in Iran to those who disagree with Adolph the Madman, or any of the Imams that control the puppet show they call a country.

But I think the clown pastor who's flock is smaller than a local chapter of the skinheads is displaying the same type of evil he condemns.

Couldn't agree more.

Personally....IF they ever try that in my lifetime...I will kill any person who tries to force ANY aspect of Sharia Upon me or my family. I will kill as many Muslims as I can before I get stoopped because I will NOT live under Sharia or tolerate it in my own country.Hello again, smoothy:

For a Constitution loving Tea Partier, you don't have a lot of faith in it, do you? The thing you have in common with the Koran burners is your FEAR that our Constitution will collapse in the face of some Muslims TRYING to change it...

Our Constitution has withstood challenges bigger than THIS in the past, yet it remains intact. Certainly, it CAN withstand any of today's assaults. I think it'll make it. You? Not so much. I don't know why.

excon

Hello again, smoothy:

For a Constitution loving Tea Partier, you don't have a lot of faith in it, do you? The thing you have in common with the Koran burners is your FEAR that our Constitution will collapse in the face of some Muslims TRYING to change it....

Our Constitution has withstood challenges bigger than THIS in the past, yet it remains intact. Certainly, it CAN withstand any of today's assaults. I think it'll make it. You? Not so much. I dunno why.

excon

But your party is run by George Soros. Obama will bow and capitulate with anyone that's not a christian... only christians does he have the balls to fight against.

After all... its the Left that has tried time and time again to take away the second amendment rights of Americans. Why do they want to do that? Because a disarmed populace is far easier to subjegate and oppress.

And after all. Any party that so actively tried to deny citizen of their rights... have little regard for the constitution.

Bear witness of the lefts concept of the 1st Amendement. THe view it as saying the following " Freedom of speech for me, not for thee".

I have faith in the constitution... what I have no faith in is the Democrat party. And the activist Judges they appoint to the court to force an agenda they can't get legislated. I've seen little evidence in my recent lifetime the Democrats have any respect at all for the constitution. Decades ago they might have... but not in recent decades.

The constitution was written in plain English... it doesn't need Lawyers and exotic interpretations they left tries to twist meanings that were never intended by the original framers... it says what it says in plain language.

I have a real problem with burning books.It is ugly ,unChristian . If anyone is looking for moral equivalence ,compare it to the destruction of the Buddah statues at Bamyan by the Taliban .
Intolerance is a silly word to use here. Intolerance of evil is acceptable. But I think the clown pastor who's flock is smaller than a local chapter of the skinheads is displaying the same type of evil he condemns.

Hannity (only radio I could pick up in the boonies) actually interviewed the boob. This guy is worse at reading from a script than Barry. It makes me wonder who he's shilling for... Soros? Huffington? Graham?

Hannity (only radio I could pick up in the boonies) actually interviewed the boob. This guy is worse at reading from a script than Barry. It makes me wonder who he's shilling for... Soros? Huffington? Graham?

Soros is most definitely the secret funding behind Obama and the left. An avowed socialist willing to spend his fortune to force his agenda on the American public against their wishes.

Ariana Huffington... a typical left coast boob. Nancy Pelosies long lost twin sister.

Ariana Huffington...a typical left coast boob. Nancy Pelosies long lost twin sister.

I kind of wish Mimi had Arianna's accent. C-span would be a little better.

Soros is most definately the secret funding behind Obama and the left. An avowed socialist willing to spend his fortune to force his agenda on the American public against their wishes.Hello again, smoothy:

Hmmm.. A Billionaire socialist... I didn't know they had any of them... How does THAT work?

excon

Hello again, smoothy:

Hmmm.. A Billionaire socialist... I didn't know they had any of them... How does THAT work??

excon

He is definitely an exception to the rule... most lefties are generous with other peoples money, never their own.

I kinda wish Mimi had Arianna's accent. C-span would be a little better.

They both give me indigestion any time they appear on camera.

Obama is trying to take your guns you still really believe that BS?
Gun control group gives Obama failing grade; says it's been disappointing year - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/76593-leading-gun-control-group-has-harsh-words-for-obama)

Spit ,I do.

Today's news is that Congress is setting up hearings for new 'firearm regulatory reforms'. They plan on continuing to abuse the 'Commerce Clause" to make national regulations that bypass the 2nd amendment.
View a Hearing or Meeting (http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/hearing.cfm?id=4771)

As a democrat and a GUN OWNER (how can this be) I don't believe it will every happen.

He is definately an exception to the rule.....most lefties are generous with other peoples money, never their own.Hello again, smoothy:

So, the foremost financier of socialism in the US, ISN'T a socialist? Do you have ANY idea what you're talking about?

excon

Neither do I . But that doesn't stop them from trying . When all else fails they invoke the Commerce and Supremacy clauses to impose National government solutions .
From a strategery point of view it makes sense. They lose in court every time they try their solutions at a local level. They are playing their card of last resort.

Hello again, smoothy:

So, the foremost financier of socialism in the US, ISN'T a socialist?? Do you have ANY idea what you're talking about?

exconHe IS a socialist... in fact he is well known as a socialist in European circles...

As a democrat and a GUN OWNER (how can this be) I don't believe it will every happen.

Take a look at Chicago gun laws... look at DC gun laws... in fact they still have their panties in a knot trying to find ways to take away the gun ownership rights the Supreme court reaffirmed they had.

Democrats can own guns... some (gasp) even hunt.

The difference is Democrats think the government has the right to take them away or essentually regulate them so heavily only the wealthy and connected would be allowed to have them.

Republicans are able to read english... and the Constitution and Bill of rights is written in plain english, they say directly what they mean... no fancy interpretation needed by some illuminati wannabes.

And it says we have the right to own guns. Not only if some paranoid government official feels like letting us have them.

The difference is Democrats think the government has the right to take them away or essentually regulate them so heavily only the wealthy and connected would be allowed to have them.

Republicans are able to read english...and the Constitution and Bill of rights is written in plain english, they say directly what they mean...no fancy interpretation needed by some illuminati wannabes.


Smoothy that is one thing you and I agree.

I agree also Smoothy, taking away the rights of law abiding citizens because the criminals have easy access to a gun, is making the wrong people suffer for the shortcomings of the few, and solves no crimes, or even stop the crooks from having a gun.

Matter of fact that's the first thing your President did was reaffirm that right, socialist, left wing Muslim though he may be.

I still disagree with the rest of your opinions though, respectfully of course :D

Soros is a socialist and anyone who has read Orwell would know what type of socialist he is. Actually ,what he really believes in is international statism .

And the Koch brothers are his mirror image on the right.

Well it is a debatable proposition how "right" libertarians are. What the Koch family has in assets is lunch money for Soros.By himsef ,his manipulations have put national currencies in crisis.

Looks like Terry Jones isn't going to burn the Quran after all:

Florida Pastor Terry Jones Cancels Plans to Burn Quran (http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/florida-pastor-terry-jones-cancels-plans-to-burn-quran/19627836?icid=main%7Chtmlws-main-n%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%7C169485)

Hallelujah.

BTW Excon, do you think it was wrong for me to call the Pastor stating I was a rep for the Imam, we were going to move the site from ground zero, and invite him up for a little chat on Saturday?:rolleyes:

Yeah I just heard this story on Chris Matthew's "Screwball" .

This 'pastor' is a nut job no doubt about it.

I think the FBI did some arm twisting . We may never know the whole story.

BTW excon, do you think it was wrong for me to call the Pastor stating I was a rep for the Imam, we were going to move the site from ground zero, and invite him up for a little chat on Saturday?:rolleyes:

Wish I could give greenies in discussion threads.

On "screwball" they are blaming General P for stoking the controversy.

Now Matthews just called burning Korans the equivalent of 'shouting fire in the crowded theater' . In other words there may be a case to make a 1st amendment exception . Would he say the same about flag burning ;or emersing a crucifix in a jar of urine and calling it art ?

Matthews just reported that the nut pastor is only suspending the Koran burnings because he has no guarantee of a beer summit and pig roast with Rauf .

Matthews just reported that the nut pastor is only suspending the Koran burnings because he has no guarantee of a beer summit and pig roast with Rauf .

JAL, quick! Call him again.

Well the troops are out of danger now so what excuse will there be now for casualties?

well the troops are out of danger now so what excuse will there be now for casualties?

My thoughts exactly... damn if only we knew 30 years ago if this Pastor would have threatened to burn Korans in the future and insult the Terrorists we could have stopped him then and they would never have done anything over the last 30 years.

I suppose now Hamas, Hezbolah, Al Queda, The Taliban and who knows what other groups are going to disband now that the earth shattering event is over.


Or maybe they are just blowing smoke... again and that was a lame excuse.

Or maybe they are just blowing smoke.......again and that was a lame excuse.

Who is you think was blowing smoke? The Generals? The Muslims? The Pastor?

I think the whole thing is a bit limp

Who is you think was blowing smoke? the Generals? the Muslims? the Pastor?

I think the whole thing is a bit limp

The Muslims... they would be threatening us and killing us because we aren't Muslim. They don't need an excuse and if there was a bonfire or not this weekend, nothing would be different. Its been going on since the Marine Barraks in Lebonon under Regan.

Funny that when John Gotti made statements of if you don't do what I want bad things might happen... they could charge him with making criminal threats under the RICO act... if a Muslim does it... Obama ignores it. And Islam makes the Mafia look like a Cub Scout Troop.

Now the Pastor has the constitutional right to do what he threatened to do... and every muslim with their panties in a knot can take their Quaran and shove it up their collective butts... because they started this... if anyone needs to make a gesture of good faith its them.

Now as far as the General goes.. Personally he should not have uttered a word... funny, its fine with the code to Parrot Obama... but its somehow against some code to mention the same topic if you are the slightest bit different in opinion..

I think there is a great degree of butt kissing going on there... why I can't guess. I'd retire before I'd let that clueless moron in the Whitehouse tell me how to do my job. And my opinion Between Patraeus and Obama... only one has a clue about anything. And its not obama.

I got no time for burning books in Florida, to celebrate 9/11. I got an invite to a beer bash in Alaska with Dame Sarah, and Father Glen, so could someone loan me 200 bucks??

Now the Pastor has the constitutional right to do what he threatened to do....and every muslim with their panties in a knot can take their Quaran and shove it up their collective butts....because they started this....if anyone needs to make a gesture of good faith its them.


.

But they have made a gesture of good faith, they want to bless you with a mosque at ground zero, an interfaith house, which is somewhat un-muslim. That you respond by saying we would rather burn the quoran, which is less offensive than what you suggest be done with it, is hardly the point. When will you learn you are dealing with what are essentially uneducated brainwashed peasants whose only response to anything they don't like is to riot and burn flags.

I say go ahead, call their bluff and burn the quoran. Stand up and be counted, in fact as a gesture of good faith give them the flags to burn

an interfaith house,

Yeah right. I see a line of Hasidim going there to use the swimming pool already.

I got no time for burning books in Florida, to celebrate 9/11. I got an invite to a beer bash in Alaska with Dame Sarah, and Father Glen, so could someone loan me 200 bucks???

If you can give me a ride.

But they have made a gesture of good faith, they want to bless you with a mosque at ground zero, an interfaith house, which is somewhat un-muslim. That you respond by saying we would rather burn the quoran, which is less offensive than what you suggest be done with it, is hardly the point. When will you learn you are dealing with what are essentially uneducated brainwashed peasants whose only response to anything they don't like is to riot and burn flags.

I say go ahead, call their bluff and burn the quoran. Stand up and be counted, in fact as a gesture of good faith give them the flags to burn

THey call Demanding we let them build a mosque on ground zero... (and this site was hit and damaged by the langing gear of one of the jets so essentually this IS ground zero as well) or they will kill Americans...

Yeah... thats making a gesture, and actually, its VERY Muslim to do. THe Quaran calls for this very thing.

There is no Christian or Jew... that will ever go to a Mosque to pray. Just isn't going to happen any more than a Muslim going to a Temple or Church to pray.

WHat would I say and do if I was President?

From this day forward... any new mosque construction in the USA will proceed ONLY after a Church or temple of equal size and desireability of location is contructed in Medina and Mecca, and other sites as determined by American religious leaders... also, travel restrictions, and laws prohibiting Bibles and non-muslims in Muslim countries will also be matched here, as you will be arrested for trying to smuggle Bibles into Saudi Arabia, where bibles are frequently burned when found, and no non-muslim is permitted to travel in Medina or Mecca.

THey obviously will counter , Well that's Saudi Arabia and they make their own rules as a cop-out. Well, this is OUR country and WE make the rules here.

Tit for Tat. How more fair can that be.

Tit for Tat. How more fair can that be.Hello again, smoothy:

Fair, but UNCONSTITUTIONAL. I thought you tea partiers LOVE the Constitution... But, when push comes to shove, you really don't. You talk the talk, but you don't walk the walk. THAT is the problem here.

Didn't I read a post or two ago where you ranted about how SIMPLE the Constitution is to understand?? They didn't use big words and wrote it so EVERYBODY could understand it... I guess you only want to apply it WHEN it suits you. That's not very American. Being a good American is HARD.

excon

Hello again, smoothy:

Fair, but UNCONSTITUTIONAL. I thought you tea partiers LOVE the Constitution.... But, when push comes to shove, you really don't. You talk the talk, but you don't walk the walk. THAT is the problem here.

Didn't I read a post or two ago where you ranted about how SIMPLE the Constitution is to understand??? They didn't use big words and wrote it so EVERYBODY could understand it... I guess you only want to apply it WHEN it suits you. That's not very American. Being a good American is HARD.

exconReally... SO you think the WTO is unconstitutional too?

Its NO different.


Contrary to what the left thinks...

Muslims don't have ANY special rights.

Not to worry .Rev Yosemite Sam will have a beer summit with Iman Rauf tomorrow at Ground Zero and all the world's problems will be solved .

Not to worry .Rev Yosemite Sam will have a beer summit with Iman Rauf tomorrow at Ground Zero and all the world's problems will be solved .

Exactly... all the terrorists are going to disband, so there will be peace in the middle east, nobody will be shooting at out troops... all because one Pastor didn't burn a book.


Oh wait... they were doing this since longe BEFORE this Pastor threatened to do exactly what Muslims do on a regular basis to OUR holy books.

But they will probibly drink Doogh... which if you have ever tried it is a salted yogurt drink that tastes like spoiled milk. God aweful stuff.

Oh wait.....they were doing this since longe BEFORE this Pastor threatened to do exactly what Muslims do on a regular basis to OUR holy books.Hello again, smoothy:

For a Constitution loving Tea Parteir, you sure want to throw it in the garbage. You'd rather we adopt the policies of Saudi Arabia... I don't know why.

There is ONE consistency in your posts, however.. That's a thorough trashing of our Constitution... I think it's FEAR.

excon

You talk the talk, but you don't walk the walk. THAT is the problem here.

The nutty Rev illustrates is that an issue left unresolved will be gladly picked up by loones to run with it. This is John Brown redux .
I keep on bringing up p.c. because that is the egg shells we walk on .
President Obama ordered bibles that were sent to Afghanistan burned ;but comes out publicly against the burning of Korans.

I hope he understands that what he’s proposing to do is completely contrary to our values as Americans, that this country has been built on the notion of freedom and religious tolerance … And as a very practical matter, I just want him to understand that this stunt that he is talking about pulling could greatly endanger our young men and women who are in uniform.

Burning Koran a 'recruitment bonanza' for Al Qaeda, Obama says - CSMonitor.com (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2010/0909/Burning-Koran-a-recruitment-bonanza-for-Al-Qaeda-Obama-says)

Why is burning Korans against our values but burning Bibles OK ?

Ex you about playing by the rules ;but it appears there are 2 different rule books ;and they are not treated equally .

Ex you about playing by the rules ;but it appears there are 2 different rule books ;and they are not treated equally .Hello again, tom:

You confuse me with an Obama mouthpiece...

excon

Well, this is OUR country and WE make the rules here.

.

The only country I am aware of where a leader actually stood up and said that in recent times is my own, he wasn't speaking of religion, nevertheless Muslims would have heard the message. Very un-PC of him, but that is history

Why is burning Korans against our values but burning Bibles ok ?

.

Tom you know as well as I do there are many more Bibles than Koran's in the world, they just want to balance the numbers which they will never do, of course. It is PC to be anti-Christian because Christians are in your face, will tell you there is only one way and will say what you are not supposed to do, whereas Muslims are allowed to lie and cheat and kill to achieve their religious objectives which makes them no different to the general population

Hello again,

You'll forgive me, but I have NO sympathy for whiny Christians who think they're being persecuted just like the Muslims are...

Gimme a break!

excon

Muslims are being persecuted ? How ?

You'll forgive me, but I have NO sympathy for whiny Christians who think they're being persecuted just like the Muslims are...

Gimme a break!

You have no clue do you?

Voice of the Martyrs (http://www.persecution.com/)

Muslims are being persecuted ? How ?Hello again, tom:

From Wikkipedia:

Political repression is the persecution of an individual or group for political reasons, particularly for the purpose of restricting or preventing their ability to take part in the political life of society.

Political repression may be represented by discriminatory policies, human rights violation, surveillance abuse, police brutality, imprisonment, involuntary settlement, stripping of citizen's rights, and violent action such as the murder, summary executions, torture, forced disappearance and other extrajudicial punishment of political activists, dissidents, or general population.

------------------------------------------

Let me summarize how we've done that exact thing to the Muslims of the world; FIRST and foremost, we support their tyrannical kings and presidents, we invade Muslim country's that DIDN'T attack us, we kill 100's of thousands of them, and call it collateral damage, we render them away from where we caught them to other country's just so they can be tortured, we imprison them forever, we give them no rights, we tell them they can't open a mosque in their own country, and we're contemplating the burning of Korans...

I guess you missed all that.

excon

You have no clue do you?Hello again, Steve:

That's a hell of a thing to say to a Jew. You can whine about being persecuted after 6,000,000 of you are murdered. Yeah, I went to your website. No, I wasn't impressed.

excon

Hello again, tom:

From Wikkipedia:

Political repression is the persecution of an individual or group for political reasons, particularly for the purpose of restricting or preventing their ability to take part in the political life of society.

Political repression may be represented by discriminatory policies, human rights violation, surveillance abuse, police brutality, imprisonment, involuntary settlement, stripping of citizen's rights, and violent action such as the murder, summary executions, torture, forced disappearance and other extrajudicial punishment of political activists, dissidents, or general population.

------------------------------------------

Let me summarize how we've done that exact thing to the Muslims of the world; FIRST and foremost, we support their tyrannical kings and presidents, we invade Muslim country's that DIDN'T attack us, we kill 100's of thousands of them, and call it collateral damage, we render them away from where we caught them to other country's just so they can be tortured, we imprison them forever, we give them no rights, we tell them they can't open a mosque in their own country, and we're contemplating the burning of Korans...

I guess you missed all that.

excon

Time to break out the tin foil hats...

Yeah I did . I thought you agreed we were not at war with 'Muslims '.
The people you speak of are citizens of nations .Yet you speak as if any actions we take (right or wrong ) is against their religion. This is not the case. You speak of liberating them from the tyrants you complain we support as wrong. . We also liberated "Muslims " in the Balkans against 'infidel 'oppressors . Was our "invasion" there also wrong ? We also freed the 'Muslims' of Kuwait from the tyranny of a different 'Muslim'nation ;and blocked that same 'Muslim' tyrant from invading and conquering the holiest place in their religion. When we helped them liberate Afghanistan against invasion were we also persecuting them?

No one has stopped anyone from building a mosque . What you are saying is that their right to build a mosque supercedes the majority's right to oppose it. So who gets persecuted then ?

As far as burning Korans... how in the world do you see that as persecution ?
Btw when they burn bibles then are Christians being persecuted ?
Christians in Gaza Fear for Their Lives as Muslims Burn Bibles and Destroy Crosses - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/285123/christians_in_gaza_fear_for_their_lives.html)

Or maybe that is cloaked as a justifiable reaction to their persecution ?

Hello again, smoothy:

For a Constitution loving Tea Parteir, you sure wanna throw it in the garbage. You'd rather we adopt the policies of Saudi Arabia... I dunno why.

There is ONE consistency in your posts, however.. That's a thorough trashing of our Constitution.... I think it's FEAR.

excon

No... its being pissed off that as a Christian in my own country I can't enjoy the CHRISTMAN season because some whack jobs fight and sue that its unconstututional to display a cross, or even mention Christs name... and then have them pervert the holiday by them making everyone call it Xmas, Happy Holidays or some other freaking thing... because oif you meantion Christ or anything CHristian on a CHrisian Holiday they will take you to court.

And the same bunch bends over backwards to give Muslims even more rights than we ourselves have. And not only American Muslims... but muslims that don't even have a legal right to be here or even live here.

Islam is WORSE than the MAFIA... ISLAM should be prosecuted under the RICO act because nearly everything they do is corrupt and illegal.

If a Christian Church so much as sides with a Republican Candidate they threaten to revoke their Tax exemption... but its fine for Muslims to do non-religous actions while retaining their tax exempt status... not only that... Obama will give them tax dollars to help them. But not if you are CHristian... anything that is remotely political (but only if its conservative) is received with a threat of tax status revokation.

Obama Ordered Bibles Burned in Afghanistan... where is the uproar from the people that got their panties in a knot about the Koran even being threatened to be burned.

And this happened months ago... Under Obamas orders.

Yeah... Obamas really a Christian... he orders bibles burned... and gets his panties in a knot when someone want to burn a Quran.

No REAL Christian would burn his own Holy book and get so upset about a Koran being burned.

BREAKING NEWS: Pentagon Burns Soldiers Bibles - Military Chaplains Attacked (http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/breaking-news-pentagon-burns-soldiers-bibles---military-chaplains-attacked/question-378553/)

Bet you never saw THAT on CNN, ABC, NBC or any of the left wing media. THey all hate Christians and Jews...

Hoiw any Jew could call themselves a Democrat is beyond belief. Or any self respecting Christian for that matter too.

I suppost you think Sharia would be good, and our Consrtitution should be declaired unconstitutional... because the two can not coexist.

That's a hell of a thing to say to a Jew. You can whine about being persecuted after 6,000,000 of you are murdered. Yeah, I went to your website. No, I wasn't impressed.

I thought this wasn't supposed to get personal? Don't try and portray me as being insensitive to the plight of Jews, you know better than that. But YOU laid down the gauntlet that Christians aren't being persecuted like Muslims are and that's a damn lie.

I thought this wasn't supposed to get personal? Don't try and portray me as being insensitive to the plight of Jews, you know better than that. But YOU laid down the gauntlet that Christians aren't being persecuted like Muslims are and that's a damn lie.

I'll second that... Christians are killed and burned by muslims on at least what appears to be a daily basis.

Suadi Arabia... look how Christians are treated there under Islam. Or any other country Islam has infested in large percentages.

Bring a Bible into that country what happens... try to go to medina or Mecca as a non-muslim see what happens... and THEY are allowed to build Mosques here.


And Islams persecution of Jews is even worse.

At least Muhammed Musri earned another virgin in paradise by convincing Yosemite Sam that they'd move the ground zero site.

Too bad he forgot to tell Rauf.

I am not for burning the Quran. I think that smacks as much prejudice and intolerance as we (collectively speaking) say that SOME followers of Islam produce against Christians and Jews and any other non Muslim person(s).

Build that mosque any other place, I don't care, just not in THAT spot in NYC. I am not saying that because I am bigoted or racist or hateful. I am saying that out of the deepest respect to the lost lives and their families of 9/11.

My two cents.

And this happened months ago....Under Obamas orders.

Yeah....Obamas really a Christian....he orders bibles burned...and gets his panties in a knot when someone want to burn a Quran.Hello again, smoothy:

That's because it ain't true. According to factcheck.org (http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/burned-bibles/) the bible burning occurred under the Bush Administration.

By your own standards, does this mean Bush isn't a real Christian?

excon

Hello again, smoothy:

That's because it ain't true. Fun blog Smoothy. According to factcheck.org (http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/burned-bibles/) the bible burning occurred under the Bush Administration.

By your own standards, does this mean Bush isn't a real Christian? Bummer for you.

excon

Yeah, yeah.. bunch of people tied to the left that support Obama with motives to cover his butt.. Wonderful source... nice try but your claim isn't true.

CNN is who reported on this... not FOX, not a Blogger. I suppose THEY switched sides now. THAT would be a first. The left LOVES CNN... except when something gets covered they wanted to hide by them.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/05/20/us.military.bibles.burned/

Yeah, yeah..bunch of people tied to the left that support Obama with motives to cover his butt.. Wonderful source...nice try but your claim isn't true.

CNN is who reported on this...not FOX, not a Blogger. I suppose THEY switched sides now. THAT would be a first. The left LOVES CNN....except when something gets covered they wanted to hide by them.

Military burns unsolicited Bibles sent to Afghanistan - CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/05/20/us.military.bibles.burned/)

If you read your own source (CNN), you will find that the Bibles were burned under the Bush administration, not Obama.

I suppose Bush is responsible to the earthquake in New Zealand too.

Obama almost 2 years into a presidency is not yet responsible for ANYTHING that has taken place under his watch... have any idea how much has happened the left who is still in love with the MEssiah won't report on because their handlers in the DNC won't allow them to?

Times running out... THe dems are going to lose their majorities, and unless he grew a pair and committs Seppuku sooner he will be gone in two years and will have saved Jimmy Carter from being the worst president in his lifetime. Assuming Carter makes it another 2 years.

No real American appologizes to everyone and bows to everyone like that idot has done.

Obama has done more damage to this country than Osama Bin Laden ever hoped to in his wildest dreams. He's a clueless buffoon that thinks he has divine powers when the idiot can't even balance his own checkbook.

I suppose Bush is responsible to the earthquake in New Zealand too.

.

Now there is a thought, we have been looking for someone to blame

Now there is a thought, we have been looking for someone to blame

Shhhhhhhhhh... If Obama hears he will blame him for that too.:D

That's because it ain't true. According to factcheck.org (http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/burned-bibles/) the bible burning occurred under the Bush Administration.

By your own standards, does this mean Bush isn't a real Christian

Factcheck.org has long strayed from fact checking. The bibles were burned in 2009 (http://articles.cnn.com/2009-05-20/world/us.military.bibles.burned_1_bibles-al-jazeera-english-military-personnel?_s=PM:WORLD), that would be when Obama was CIC. They were burned because it was the politically correct thing to do, out of this same fear of offending Muslims and after Al Jazeera try to inflame the situation.


"The decision was made that it was a 'force protection' measure to throw them away, because, if they did get out, it could be perceived by Afghans that the U.S. government or the U.S. military was trying to convert Muslims," Wright told CNN on Tuesday.

Troops at posts in war zones are required to burn their trash, Wright said.

The Bibles were written in the languages Pashto and Dari.

This decision came to light recently, after the Al Jazeera English network aired video of a group prayer service and chapel sermon that a reporter said suggested U.S. troops were being encouraged to spread Christianity.

The military denied that earlier this month, saying much in the video was taken out of context.

"This was irresponsible and dangerous journalism sensationalizing year-old footage of a religious service for U.S. soldiers on a U.S. base and inferring that troops are evangelizing to Afghans," Col. Gregory Julian said.

The military says a soldier at Bagram received the Bibles and didn't realize he wasn't allowed to hand them out. In the Al Jazeera video, which shows the Bibles at the prayer service, an unnamed soldier says members of his church raised money for them.

The chaplain later corrected the soldier and confiscated the Bibles, Wright said.

Military officers considered sending the Bibles back to the church, he said, but they worried the church would turn around and send them to another organization in Afghanistan -- giving the impression that they had been distributed by the U.S. government.

That could lead to violence against troops or U.S. civilians, Wright said.

Jones' problem was he didn't say he was just burning the trash.

Speechless, I have nothing but respect for you. Your postings are always logical and usually factual, unlike others who shall remain nameless. However, both CNN links posted on these last few pages back up the factchecks.org Excon posted.

From your link:
"May 20, 2009
Afghan workers enter a walkway on March 3, 2009, at Bagram Air Base, Afghanistan.Military personnel threw away, and ultimately burned, confiscated Bibles that were printed in the two most common Afghan languages amid concern they would be used to try to convert Afghans, a Defense Department spokesman said Tuesday.

The unsolicited Bibles sent by a church in the United States were confiscated about a year ago at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan because military rules forbid troops of any religion from proselytizing while deployed there, Lt. Col. Mark Wright said.

Such religious outreach can endanger American troops and civilians in the devoutly Muslim nation, Wright said."

If you check the other CNN link posted on the previous page, it states the same thing.

The army is efficient in burning it's trash. They did not leave those bibles lying around for one year in a locked storage shed. Should we be blaming Bush for this decision? I don't think so. This was a decision made by an officer of our military because it went against U.S. military rules. So, blaming Obama for this is simply ridiculous. We need to place blame squarely on the idiots who sent the bibles in the first place. They had no business interfering in matters of war.

BTW, on the whole, I believe Factcheck.org is a much more reliable source than the hate filled blogs from both sides that are usually linked on these threads.

speechless, I have nothing but respect for you. Your postings are always logical and usually factual, unlike others who shall remain nameless. However, both CNN links posted on these last few pages back up the factchecks.org Excon posted.

From your link:
"May 20, 2009
Afghan workers enter a walkway on March 3, 2009, at Bagram Air Base, Afghanistan.Military personnel threw away, and ultimately burned, confiscated Bibles that were printed in the two most common Afghan languages amid concern they would be used to try to convert Afghans, a Defense Department spokesman said Tuesday.

The unsolicited Bibles sent by a church in the United States were confiscated about a year ago at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan because military rules forbid troops of any religion from proselytizing while deployed there, Lt. Col. Mark Wright said.

Such religious outreach can endanger American troops and civilians in the devoutly Muslim nation, Wright said."

If you check the other CNN link posted on the previous page, it states the same thing.

The army is efficient in burning it's trash. They did not leave those bibles lying around for one year in a locked storage shed. Should we be blaming Bush for this decision? I don't think so. This was a decision made by an officer of our military because it went against U.S. military rules. So, blaming Obama for this is simply ridiculous. We need to place blame squarely on the idiots who sent the bibles in the first place. They had no business interfering in matters of war.

BTW, on the whole, I believe Factcheck.org is a much more reliable source than the hate filled blogs from both sides that are usually linked on these threads.

After rereading, the CNN article isn't exactly clear. Either way, it was still done for the reasons mentioned. Why are we so fearful of offending Muslims but don't give a rat's a$$ about offending Christians?

After rereading, the CNN article isn't exactly clear. Either way, it was still done for the reasons mentioned. Why are we so fearful of offending Muslims but don't give a rat's a$$ about offending Christians?

This is the CNN link from Smoothy's post: Military burns unsolicited Bibles sent to Afghanistan - CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/05/20/us.military.bibles.burned/)

"'The decision was made that it was a 'force protection' measure to throw them away, because, if they did get out, it could be perceived by Afghans that the U.S. government or the U.S. military was trying to convert Muslims," Wright told CNN on Tuesday.

Troops at posts in war zones are required to burn their trash, Wright said."

Yes, the CNN article isn't crystal clear but the U.S. Military has strict regulations when it comes to disposing of trash, especially when on foreign soil. It is done quickly. This was an officer's decision to destroy the bibles based upon regulations, not Bush's, nor Obama's.

I don't think the military decision to destroy the bibles was out of fear of offending Muslims. Wright was quoted in your link as stating: ]"Such religious outreach can endanger American troops and civilians in the devoutly Muslim nation[/B]."

In my opinion, the military needs as much support as they can get from the citizens of Afghanistan in their search & destroy mission of Al-Qaeda & its Taliban supporters. It seems to me handing out Christian bibles to devout followers of the Koran would completely alienate the general population of that country.

[I]It seems to me handing out Christian bibles to devout followers of the Koran would completely alienate the general population of that country.

I don't disagree with that and I don't know how that changes my point. Being a "force protection" measure means they fear it would offend Muslims and cause problems, no? Otherwise, what's the problem?

You can throw out the discussion of burned bibles altogether and my question still needs an answer.

Meanwhile, this if for ex:


Christian Worshippers Attacked in Indonesia (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/09/13/world/main6860306.shtml?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed)

Indonesia's president ordered police to hunt down and arrest assailants who stabbed a Christian worshipper in the stomach and beat a minister in the head with a wooden plank as they headed to prayers.

Neither of the injuries appeared to be life-threatening.

No one claimed responsibility for Sunday's attacks. But suspicion immediately fell on Islamic hard-liners who have repeatedly warned members of the Batak Christian Protestant Church against worshipping on a field housing their now-shuttered church.

In recent months, they have thrown shoes and water bottles at the church members, interrupted sermons with chants of "Infidels!" and "Leave Now!" and dumped piles of feces on the land.

Local police Chief Imam Sugianto said Asia Sihombing, a worshipper, was on his way to the field when assailants jumped off a motorcycle and stabbed him in the stomach.

The Rev. Luspida Simanjuntak was smashed in the head as she tried to come to his aid.

"I was trying to help get him onto a motorcycle so we could get him to a hospital," she told reporters in the industrial city of Bekasi, 25 miles east of Jakarta.

She said the face of one of the assailants looked familiar.

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, who relies heavily on Islamic parties in parliament, has been widely criticized in the media for failing to crack down on hard-liners.

But he immediately called on authorities to investigate and to hold accountable those responsible.

"We know who's behind it," said Maj. Gen. Timur Pradopo, the police chief in Jakarta, without elaborating. "But I don't believe this is an inter-religious conflict."

Indonesia, a secular country of 237 million people, has more Muslims than any other in the world. Though it has a long history of religious tolerance, a small extremist fringe has become more vocal in recent years.

Leading the charge against the Batak Christians has been the Islamic Defenders Front, which is pushing for the implementation of Islamic-based laws in Bekasi and other parts of the nation.

They are known for smashing bars, attacking transvestites and going after those considered blasphemous with bamboo clubs and stones. Perpetrators are rarely punished or even questioned by police.

The front also pressured the local government early this year to shutter the Batak church.

The Batak worshippers have refused to back down. Every week, about 20 or so return to the field to pray, defying threats and indimidation.

Atheists are also attacked: Nigerian atheist attacked by a mob of Christians at a child witchcraft conference (http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/08/01/nigerian-atheist-attacked-by-a-mob-of-christians-at-a-child-witchcraft-conference/)

NIGERIAN atheist, Leo Igwe – a regular contributor to the Freethinker – was attacked this week by a mob of Christians at a conference he staged to discuss Child Rights and Witchcraft.

According to this report, Igwe had his glasses smashed and his bag, phone and camera stolen by the mob, numbering between 150 and 200, who were alternately singing and aggressively disrupting the conference in Calabar. After an hour and a half, the police turned up and dispersed the mob. One person was arrested

Atheists are also attacked: Nigerian atheist attacked by a mob of Christians at a child witchcraft conference (http://freethinker.co.uk/2009/08/01/nigerian-atheist-attacked-by-a-mob-of-christians-at-a-child-witchcraft-conference/)

OK, so? Did I say they weren't or call them whiny? NO, that was for excon's remark (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/burn-koran-day-endangers-troops-petraus-says-505447-11.html#post2519398).

As long as we agree that religious groups persecute other religious groups - it's not relegated to a unique belief.

As long as we agree that religious groups persecute other religious groups - it's not relegated to a unique belief.

I never said Muslims weren't persecuted, but it isn't relegated to religious groups doing the persecuting either. Or do you consider China and North Korea for instance, a "religious group?"

Being a "force protection" measure means they fear it would offend Muslims and cause problems, no? Otherwise, what's the problem?

You can throw out the discussion of burned bibles altogether and my question still needs an answer. Why are we so fearful of offending Muslims but don't give a rat's a$$ about offending Christians?

I combined the points you were looking to discuss into one post.

Since I don't know what is in the minds of others, I can only answer your question from my own perspective. I don't believe the military does not "give a rat's a$$ about offending Christians." I honestly believe that isn't a factor at play here. Of course, I agree they were looking to avoid insulting the Muslims but, we are in their country and I believe our armed forces are simply focusing on the strategy that is involved in a military prime objective. I also believe if they didn't follow the guidelines many, many more of our soldiers would have died. Just MHO.

I combined the points you were looking to discuss into one post.

Since I don't know what is in the minds of others, I can only answer your question from my own perspective. I don't believe the military does not "give a rat's a$$ about offending Christians." I honestly believe that isn't a factor at play here. Of course, I agree they were looking to avoid insulting the Muslims but, we are in their country and I believe our armed forces are simply focusing on the strategy that is involved in a military prime objective. I also believe if they didn't follow the guidelines many, many more of our soldiers would have died. Just MHO.

When I said leave out the bible burning that left out the military, my question was always for society as a whole. It's perfectly fine to offend Christians, but not Muslims. In fact, many in this country treat offending Christians as a sport while getting all sanctimonious over some perceived slight to Muslims. I don't get it, do you?

Ah yes, poor christian americans with 100% of their presidents being christian and anytime you are in court you've got a bible there to swear on. All those free bibles in hotel rooms don't hurt either. Yes they are such a maligned group. LOL!

So... its OK to offend Christians in America... but not Muslims?

So you are in effect saying Muslims are a protected class, while Christians are deserving of the same disdain reserved for Child molesters, and Bikers?

So....its ok to offend Christians in America....but not Muslims?So you are saying that white christians are the chosen race?

When I said leave out the bible burning that left out the military, my question was always for society as a whole. It's perfectly fine to offend Christians, but not Muslims. In fact, many in this country treat offending Christians as a sport while getting all sanctimonious over some perceived slight to Muslims. I don't get it, do you?

Ahhhh! LOL. Sorry. I didn't realize you were talking generalities. I can't answer for "society as a whole." However, I don't agree that people in this country feel it is fine to offend Christians but not Muslims and that "many" "treat offending Christians as a sport....". I think only a handful of people actually do that and no, I don't get why they do it. Attention maybe? Unfortunately, they do appear to be the ones who get the press coverage. Frankly, I blame the media for inciting the masses on a daily basis.

So you are saying that white christians are the chosen race?

You said that... I never even implied it.

You said that....I never even implied it.See? We can play your "implied/are you saying?" game all day!

Ah yes, poor christian americans with 100% of their presidents being christian and anytime you are in court you've got a bible there to swear on. All those free bibles in hotel rooms don't hurt either. Yes they are such a maligned group. LOL!

Case in point...

Case in point...Explain, I'm interested.

Explain, I'm interested.

You don't see how mocking Christians is offensive? I can't help then.

You're offended at me showing how you are the majority by far in your country? My, how thin your skin is. Is there anything that does not offend you?

See? We can play your "implied/are you saying?" game all day!

So you needed to pull that out of your Butt exactly WHY?

So you pull that out of your Butt exactly WHY?You have an infatuation with things in butts.

You have an infatuation with things in butts.

Hey, you caught me... I love women's butts, their shape, how they feel... I admit it. :D

Hey, you caught me....I love womens butts, their shape, how they feel......I admit it. :DActually you always use the expression amongst the men on this board, usually about what goes in or out of their butts.

You're offended at me showing how you are the majority by far in your country? My, how thin your skin is. Is there anything that does not offend you?

Your tone was indeed mocking and that is to Christians as a whole, offensive. A major offense, no, just indicative of the mindset I was referring to. It doesn't bother me, I take you for what you're worth.

I accept your apology.

Actually you always use the expression amongst the men on this board, usually about what goes in or out of their butts.

Hey, I just tried to lighten the tone up here a bit... but since that didn't work.

Personally I couldn't care less about what goes in or out of other male members butts... as long as they do it in private meaning I'M nowhere around to see or smell it.

Well then please try to be less offensive. Some members here get offended easily.

Well then please try to be less offensive. Some members here get offended easily.

Yeah... Like me and most conservatives. That goes both ways remember.

And most less easily than me... I was almost a 9/11 victim... and if not for a sort of premonition ( at one point I had a feeling I really, REALLY had to get out of there even if it wasn't because I felt something bad would happen) I might have been. Because otherwise I WOULD have been there in the Pentagon in that outer ring segment WHEN the Plane hit it.

Now if we have any others here who actually were in the Towers or that part of the Pentagon when the planes hit... or were first responders, then you might have someone with MORE of a right to be touchier on the topic than I do.

I've said that before but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt you didn't see it.

Now if we have any others here who actually were in the Towers or that part of the Pentagon when the planes hit...or were first responders, then you might have someone with MORE of a right to be touchier on the topic than I do.Hello again, smoothy:

You, are OUT of your tree, as usual. America was attacked. Not YOU. YOU, like ME weren't hurt. Therefore, YOU, like ME, DON'T have a right to be touchier about 9/11 than ANY other American does.

YOU ain't special. Get over yourself!

excon

Hello again, smoothy:

You, are OUT of your tree, as usual. America was attacked. Not YOU. YOU, like ME weren't hurt. Therefore, YOU, like ME, DON'T have a right to be touchier about 9/11 than ANY other American does.

YOU ain't special. Get over yourself!

excon

Spoken like a true liberal that was on the other side of the country in bed when it happened. THat wasn't anywhere near any of the targets and was never in any danger, harping to those of us that were...

If North Korea ever drops something on the west coast... try and remember what you just said here.

So do you offer that same brilliant advice to rape victims, Victims of Child Molseters, victims or drunk drivers, victims of hit and run drivers, victims of gang violence or just plain victims of violent crime?. Get over yourself..


You need to talk to Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Barbra Boxer and Harry Reid... BEFORE they get voted out of office. Give them that tidbit of wisdom.



If you are ever the vicitm of violent crime but live... remember to keep it to yourself, because if I am still here, I will remember your words to me and everyone in Manhattan or the Pentragon on 9/11, to "get over it" and you will hear them again.

Smoothy, you are finally pissing me off enough to stop ignoring your inane and repetitive ramblings.

Remember your history? When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, the ENTIRE nation was polarized. No matter where they were living in the U.S. every man, able bodied or not, immediately went down to their local army, marine, or navy recruitment station to sign up for combat. They ALL were THAT PISSED OFF and took the bombing of Hawaii personally. My father was one of them. He was a boy from the midwest. At 17 he convinced his parents to allow him to join the marines. That anger over the invasion of our country NEVER left him. Later in life he owned and edited a travel magazine. As someone whose love of travel never dimmed while living, he never could bring himself to visit Japan.

By your own statements, you avoided the building on 9/11 due to some premonition. I don't talk about it much and I am not going to get into it here but I WAS in Manhattan when the towers were hit. I was not physically in the building(s) but close enough that it impacted me tremendously. Lives lost due to the event had further impact on me. That is ALL I am going to discuss about it on this board.

Suffice it to say, I DO NOT believe I am any more damaged or feel that I am entitled to any more outrage than any other U.S. citizen. Neither should you. The fact that you THINK you are entitled simply shows how emotionally disabled you were prior to the event. Take it from someone who was personally more effected than you were. YOU aren't special and are not suffering from PTDS. People's reactions on 9/11 were the same as WWII. How DARE you minimize any other citizen's feelings about this dark time in our history to support your off the wall thoughts and ideas. Rarely have you stated ANYTHING on these political threads that have any basis in reality and fact. You take what people say and completely twist their words to a point where what you are stating comes off as ludicrous ramblings to many of us here. Understand I am not excusing others here from doing the same thing. I pointedly ignore them when they do it too but yours, by far, is the worst of the lot. With this latest garbage, you have completely insuilted me. Not a good way to start my day. I am done with this thread.

Now that JAL has ripped Smoothy a new one, back to the OP. I didn't bring this up when I heard about it but now that we have a folk hero over the deal I thought you might find it interesting.

We have our own 'Terry Jones' in our fair city and he decided to pick up where Jones left off and demonstrate that "Islam is not a religion of peace" by burning a Koran in Jones' stead. But wouldn't you know it, along comes 23-year-old skateboarder Jacob Isom to the rescuse who snatches the Koran with these parting words, "Dude, you have no Quran (http://amarillo.com/news/local-news/2010-09-14/dude-you-have-no-quran)."

Thumbs up, Jacob. LOL.

Smoothy, you are finally pissing me off enough to stop ignoring your inane and repetitive ramblings.

Remember your history? When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, the ENTIRE nation was polarized. No matter where they were living in the U.S. every man, able bodied or not, immediately went down to their local army, marine, or navy recruitment station to sign up for combat. They ALL were THAT PISSED OFF and took the bombing of Hawaii personally. My father was one of them. He was a boy from the midwest. At 17 he convinced his parents to allow him to join the marines. That anger over the invasion of our country NEVER left him. Later in life he owned and edited a travel magazine. As someone whose love of travel never dimmed while living, he never could bring himself to visit Japan.

By your own statements, you avoided the building on 9/11 due to some premonition. I don't talk about it much and I am not going to get into it here but I WAS in Manhattan when the towers were hit. I was not physically in the building(s) but close enough that it impacted me tremendously. Lives lost due to the event had further impact on me. That is ALL I am going to discuss about it on this board.

Suffice it to say, I DO NOT believe I am any more damaged or feel that I am entitled to any more outrage than any other U.S. citizen. Neither should you. The fact that you THINK you are entitled simply shows how emotionally disabled you were prior to the event. Take it from someone who was personally more effected than you were. YOU aren't special and are not suffering from PTDS. People's reactions on 9/11 were the same as WWII. How DARE you minimize any other citizen's feelings about this dark time in our history to support your off the wall thoughts and ideas. Rarely have you stated ANYTHING on these political threads that have any basis in reality and fact. You take what people say and completely twist their words to a point where what you are stating comes off as ludicrous ramblings to many of us here. Understand I am not excusing others here from doing the same thing. I pointedly ignore them when they do it too but yours, by far, is the worst of the lot. With this latest garbage, you have completely insuilted me. Not a good way to start off my day. I am done with this thread.

Off your meds? I don't see any reality of facts coming from the left here... and even less reality of facts coming from the White House.

YOu just in fact proved you ARE JUST ANOTHER LEMMING of the Demopcrat party...

You believe anything they tell you to believe...

I suppose you think Dan Rather was right... and didn't fabricate the story.

I suppose you believe Obama really isn't responsible for anything he has done the 21 months he has been in office...


I suppose you believe that George Bush who has been in Crawford Texas is really still running the country.


You don't know what pissed off is after listen to the drivel and total bullsh** from the left.

Where in the Hell were YOU that morning... I sure as hell am willing to bet you werten't in Shanksville, PA, Were you in lower Manhattan, were you in or near the Pentagon...

If you weren't then shut the hell up because YOU don't have a damn clue.

Who in the hell appointed you the all knowing expert... don't tell me YOU know exactly what I went through because YOU didn't YOU watch it on TV... YOU didn't see it with your own eyes in person... YOU didn't have people you knew well killed.

Its just shows another lefty with a big mouth trying to jump on the bandwagon of something he doesn't have a clue about...


I suppose you know exactly what its like to have a loaded gun pointed at your temple through a car door because you watch TV... so you know what its like...


Yeah... keep deluding yourself... you are very good at that.

Nobody that wasn't there feels the same thing as someone who was...

Anyone that claims they do is a damn liar.

And that is NOT the same as what you did feel watching it on TV.

If you remember I saw it from BOTH aspects... I saw the Towers on TV... the Pentagon didn't happen until later, and THAT was not the same at all because I just left the Pentgon, in THAT area not that long before, THAT was a punch in the gut unlike the shock of watching the towers on TV. And I saw the Pentagon smoking before they even had a video feed for it... from the roof of my office


NOT the same... and people in those towers or near them DID feel that part more than I diid or YOU did... or ANYONE that saw it only on TV.

Likewise if YOU weren't at the pentagon or near it... you couldn't possibly feel it the same way as those who were.


If you weren't at either... then face reality... you didn't feel it the same way as those who were. Its impossible. And you having the balls to try and tell ME what I can and can't feel when YOU weren't there... THAT pisses me off, grow up already.

Ask any crime victim... but then... you really are closed minded and believe only what you want to believe.

Hello again, smoothy:

I got to hand it to you. You'd make an excellent Tea Party candidate for something... Politicians have a way of saying whatever they want to say, REGARDLESS of what's said to them. You are very good at doing that. It might get you elected, but it won't win any debates here.

excon

Hello again, smoothy:

I gotta hand it to you. You'd make an excellent Tea Party candidate for something... Politicians have a way of saying whatever they want to say, REGARDLESS of what's said to them. You are very good at doing that. It might get you elected, but it won't win any debates here.

excon

At least I don't repeat the DNC talking points ad nauseum even when reality contradicts them.


I suppose you really believe Obama is the smartest person ever elected because the DNC told you so.

Has anyone of the left presented college transcripts to prove he is yet? Nope... and that's because it as big a lie as his life has been. But then, the left worships the man as the Messiah, and the messiah would never tell a lie or stretch the facts to suit his agenda now would he.


You however like the left... believe you win a debate by repeating talking points... while offereing NO proof backing them up... when cornered you start personal attacks and name calling...


Exactly where and under what rules could you ever consider the left as tio having won a debate, any debate?

Because you haven't, all you have done is proven the left can't be trusted or believed because they will rant, rave and attack anyone who does not swallow their parties cock and bull story just because their messiah hands it to them from the mountain on stone tablets.

You democrats are so damn full of yourselves you can't see what most of the country is thinking...

Wait until the election even when you lose seats... I suppose you will still think you are right and everyone else is wrong... fact is your mindset is in the minority... not the majority.

If YOU were right the Dems would GAIN seats, and not lose a single one.

We'll see soon. Of course... Like Al Gore you will cry election fraud when you lose.

Three things about the Quran youwill not hear from the liberals OR the Muslims..

Video of the Day: 3 Things You Must Know About Islam | Impeach Obama Campaign (http://www.impeachobamacampaign.com/video-of-the-day-3-things-you-must-know-about-islam/?utm_source=Floyd+Reports&utm_campaign=501804b2c9-FR_09_12_20109_12_2010&utm_medium=email)

Watch the video...

Hello again, smoothy:

I'm a Jew. I'm familiar with that kind of hatred. Some people even made videos about it. Want to see one? Click here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaEMBPrHHII)

excon

I apologize for stating that I was done with this thread.

Smoothy, do you EVER bother to fully read what other people write? What part of: "I WAS in Manhattan when the towers were hit. I was not physically in the building(s) but close enough that it impacted me tremendously. Lives lost due to the event had further impact on me. That is ALL I am going to discuss about it on this board." didn't you understand?

My father was still alive and was not anywhere near The Towers as I was. Yet, he was just as angry, upset, bloodthirsty for Bin Laden's butt,. as EVERY OTHER AMERICAN was. I have friends that live in other states who continue to feel the same way so I can only imagine that an overwhelming majority of U.S. citizens feel as they do. So stop your personal pity party. Stop your "delusional" thinking as you accuse me of doing. Yes, my perspective was different than most other Americans, but I DON'T claim ownership to the anger that has been felt throughout this country as you have here.

AND, STOP accusing everyone who doesn't wholeheartedly agree with your lunatic rants as being a Democrat & Liberal. I am a proud Republican who is not proud of some of the garbage that is coming from others in my party. Thankfully, I have not lost my ability to reason and use logic. Thankfully, I prefer to rely on facts rather than fantasy. Thankfully, I DO have my own opinions and don't allow morons on television and crazed bloggers to influence my thought processes. Between the two of us, YOU are the one who appears to be "off your meds."

I apologize publicly to Tomder for suggesting a while back that he might be paid to further an ultra Conservative agenda. It is apparent to me after reading his responses since that time, he is a knowledgeable man with personal convictions. Over the past month it has become painfully obvious to me that I pegged the wrong person here.

Smoothy, you have become a one note wonder with your constant harping on that idiot Dan Rather. Find something else to bring to the table to deflect what you perceive as a left wing conspiracy. PLEASE, START ACTUALLY READING WHAT OTHER PEOPLE WRITE AND RESPOND WITH SOME LOGICAL POSTS AND FACTUAL LINKS. Until that happens, you are not furthering your cause but hindering it. People here have accused you of being a racist & insane. PLEASE, make some attempt to disprove their accusations for crying out loud.

At this point smoothy can be considered to be trolling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29) since it's becoming repetitive, "inflammatory and with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response."

Don't feed the troll.

Hello again, smoothy:

I'm a Jew. I'm familiar with that kind of hatred. Some people even made videos about it. Wanna see one? Click here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaEMBPrHHII)

excon

Where was any hatred in the video that explains the Quran to non-muslims.

Its simple to Google up and prove its statements are accurate.

And incidentally, I don't need any proof of Anti-semitism in the world. Its allive and well in far too many places. Its easy to find and see even without looking back to recent history. And its not just the Muslims doing it.

I however am not an anti-semite.

At this point smoothy can be considered to be trolling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29) since it's becoming repetitive, "inflammatory and with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response."

Don't feed the troll.

Look who is screaming Troll, the king troll themselves...


What a freaking joke..

Where was any hatred in the video that explains the Quran to non-muslims..Hello again, smoothy:

Where was the hatred in the Rothchild movie? All they were doing was explaining to the German public, how the Jew operates. The movie even said it was based on historical facts - just like your video purports to do.

excon

At this point smoothy can be considered to be trolling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29) since it's becoming repetitive, "inflammatory and with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response."

Don't feed the troll.
Because he has been a member here for a long time, that never even occurred to me. You are right.


Speechless, thanks for the link in your post. I enjoyed the article.

Don't feed the troll.Hello NK:

Nahhhh. He AIN'T going to have the last word - not on MY thread, anyway. Besides, kicking his a$$ is FUN.

excon

I apologize for stating that I was done with this thread.

Smoothy, do you EVER bother to fully read what other people write? What part of: "I WAS in Manhattan when the towers were hit. I was not physically in the building(s) but close enough that it impacted me tremendously. Lives lost due to the event had further impact on me. That is ALL I am going to discuss about it on this board." didn't you understand?

My father was still alive and was not anywhere near The Towers as I was. Yet, he was just as angry, upset, bloodthirsty for Bin Laden's butt,... as EVERY OTHER AMERICAN was. I have friends that live in other states who continue to feel the same way so I can only imagine that an overwhelming majority of U.S. citizens feel as they do. So stop your personal pity party. Stop your "delusional" thinking as you accuse me of doing. Yes, my perspective was different than most other Americans, but I DON'T claim ownership to the anger that has been felt throughout this country as you have here.

AND, STOP accusing everyone who doesn't wholeheartedly agree with your lunatic rants as being a Democrat & Liberal. I am a proud Republican who is not proud of some of the garbage that is coming from others in my party. Thankfully, I have not lost my ability to reason and use logic. Thankfully, I prefer to rely on facts rather than fantasy. Thankfully, I DO have my own opinions and don't allow morons on television and crazed bloggers to influence my thought processes. Between the two of us, YOU are the one who appears to be "off your meds."

I apologize publicly to Tomder for suggesting a while back that he might be paid to further an ultra Conservative agenda. It is apparent to me after reading his responses since that time, he is a knowledgable man with personal convictions. Over the past month it has become painfully obvious to me that I pegged the wrong person here.

Smoothy, you have become a one note wonder with your constant harping on that idiot Dan Rather. Find something else to bring to the table to deflect what you perceive as a left wing conspiracy. PLEASE, START ACTUALLY READING WHAT OTHER PEOPLE WRITE AND RESPOND WITH SOME LOGICAL POSTS AND FACTUAL LINKS. Until that happens, you are not furthering your cause but hindering it. People here have accused you of being a racist & insane. PLEASE, make some attempt to disprove their accusations for crying out loud.

How about YOU for once in your life try reading what other people write YOURSELF.

MOST Americans are not Lemmings... Most Americans don't have the distorted concept of reality that the left operates under.


YOu get upset about Dan Rather because HE GOT CAUGHT. You were one of the people rallying behind him in the Democrats "Hate Bush" campaign" wasn't you, Don't like it when one of your Pillars gets shown for the Liar he is... Just like Obama is as well, and as much of the main stream Media has been exposed for being.

Hey, its not my word... the plumeting readerships and viewerships of the entire left wing media love Obama machine are in freefall.

Not my numbers... its reality. Live with it... open your eyes, the planet does not revolve around you, and reality is not what you what it to be. Reality is what it is... like it or hate it... but live with it.


Yeah you have your opinions, that's abundently clear... and its also abundently clear you like all the other lefties can't stand it that other have their own opinions... and GASP... even have the same right to free speech you love so well.

After all, you have spent decades working with the giovernment, you have seen thousands of examples of distortion in the main stream media...

Oh right... you haven't. You Believe what CBS (and the others) tells you as the gods honest truth that is exactly as it happened with no political spin at all in the story...

Man you are going to be in for one hell of a shock when your eyes get opened. Don't cry that nobody told you so when it happens.

Believe what you want... reality has no place in the Liberal Ideology.

Nahhhh. He AIN'T gonna have the last word - not on MY thread, anyway. Besides, kicking his a$$ is FUN.Sometimes not giving them the benefit of replies makes them hoist with one's own petar.

Hello NK:

Nahhhh. He AIN'T gonna have the last word - not on MY thread, anyway. Besides, kicking his a$$ is FUN.

excon

Really... all you've proved is the left are collectively totally incapible of dealling with the facts about anything.

You haven't won anything... only proved that you are bigger a$$holes than the rest of us.

That wins a schoolyard debate... and nothing else.

Apologies for going off topic excon but this is too important to me.


Smoothy, what on earth makes you think I believed Dan Rather? I was very happy to see him go down the drain. Not happy seeing him coughed back up and sitting in on televised political discussions as an expert. What makes you think I watch CBS? I don't.
What hole did you pull this out of:"reality has no place in the Liberal Ideology". WHO are you talking to here?

Although I thought it was obvious, I guess I have to spell it out for you. I was reacting/responding to this:
You wrote: "I was almost a 9/11 victim....and if not for a sort of premonition ( at one point I had a feeling I really, REALLY had to get out of there even if it wasn't because I felt something bad would happen) I might have been. Because otherwise I WOULD have been there in the Pentagon in that outer ring segment WHEN the Plane hit it.

Now if we have any others here who actually were in the Towers or that part of the Pentagon when the planes hit...or were first responders, then you might have someone with MORE of a right to be touchier on the topic than I do."

Then, when excon called you out on your right to be angrier than other people, you posted this: "Spoken like a true liberal that was on the other side of the country in bed when it happened. THat wasn't anywhere near any of the targets and was never in any danger, harping to those of us that were..."

I am now throwing your words back at you, "who the hell are you" to decide who here has a right to be angrier than you? REREAD my posts. THEN reread your responses. I HAVE CONSISTENTLY BEEN TELLING YOU ABOUT MY EXPERIENCE AND MY FATHER'S REACTION AND ANGER TO 9/11. Forget about me for just one second, you CONTINUE TO INSULT MY FATHER"S MEMORY and insult the rest of my family and friends by stating none of them had a right to the same anger as you. To make matters worse, after I told you that I WAS there, I can only now conclude by your second response that you DID read what I wrote and you are actually calling me a liar when you stated this:

If you weren't then shut the hell up because YOU don't have a damn clue.

Who in the hell appointed you the all knowing expert....don't tell me YOU know exactly what I went through because YOU didn't YOU watch it on TV....YOU didn't see it with your own eyes in person...YOU didn't have people you knew well killed.

Its just shows another lefty with a big mouth trying to jump on the bandwagon of something he doesn't have a clue about....


So, I cannot possibly be as angry as you? No one can feel the way you do UNLESS they were actually inside the buildings that were hit or, were first responders as you stated in the earlier post I quoted above? YOU watched the towers being hit on TV like the majority of the world, and you saw the Pentagon burning from your rooftop. BIG FREAKING WHOOP. When you have soot raining down upon you, and you are surrounded by mass hysteria and confusion, maybe YOU will begin to understand how I felt and still feel. Until then, you REALLY need to shut your pie hole.

You keep turning what I have stated into some liberal left wing conspiracy. WHAT is WRONG with you? Are you paid that much by some ultra conservative radical faction to completely ignore what people are saying here simply to continue to spread the lies and hate that you do? Or are you really that much of a moron when it comes to comprehension?

You really need to delete this from your signature: I'm not really Albert Einstein BELIEVE ME, no one could possibly mistake you for him.

This other stuff: "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

Ignorance can be cured, but you can't fix stupid. - Ron White" should definitely stay. :rolleyes:

ONE request.
Stay ON topic AND civil or I'll close

Because he has been a member here for a long time, that never even occurred to me. You are right.


Speechless, thanks for the link in your post. I enjoyed the article.

You're welcome, glad someone finally noticed. And Curlyben, that's where I tried to steer it back (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/burn-koran-day-endangers-troops-petraus-says-505447-16.html#post2524111) to. You guys really ought to read the article I linked, it was priceless.