Stephen Hawking: God did not create Universe

Stephen Hawking The Universe can create itself from nothing, says Prof Hawking

There is no place for God in theories on the creation of the Universe, Professor Stephen Hawking has said.

He had previously argued belief in a creator was not incompatible with science but in a new book, he concludes the Big Bang was an inevitable consequence of the laws of physics.

The Grand Design, part serialised in the Times, says there is no need to invoke God to set the Universe going.

"Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something," he concluded.

BBC News - Stephen Hawking: God did not create Universe (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11161493)
Video piece: BBC News - Professor Stephen Hawking says no God created Universe (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11172158)

[Hawking] adds: "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing."

Where did gravity come from?

Now where did I put my barge pole ;)

The ALS is infiltrating his brain.

Wow, stephen hawking said that, he's the last person id expect to say such a thing, right after the pope :eek:

The scientist approached God and said, "Listen, we've decided we no longer need you. Nowadays, we can extract stem cells, clone people, transplant hearts, and all kinds of things that were once considered miraculous."

God patiently heard him out, and then said, "All right. To see whether or not you still need me, why don't we have a little man-making contest!"

"Okay, great!" the scientist said.

"Now, we're going to do this just like I did back in the old days with Adam," God said.

"That's fine," replied the scientist and he bent down to scoop up a handful of dirt.

"Whoa!" God said, shaking his head in disapproval. "Not so fast, pal. You get your own dirt."

"Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something"

Now that's deep.

The scientist approached God and said, "Listen, we've decided we no longer need you. Nowadays, we can extract stem cells, clone people, transplant hearts, and all kinds of things that were once considered miraculous."

God patiently heard him out, and then said, "All right. To see whether or not you still need me, why don't we have a little man-making contest!"

"Okay, great!" the scientist said.

"Now, we're going to do this just like I did back in the old days with Adam," God said.

"That's fine," replied the scientist and he bent down to scoop up a handful of dirt.

"Whoa!" God said, shaking his head in disapproval. "Not so fast, pal. You get your own dirt."

I love that joke. I have a friend who tells it to someone every week I think.

New Bumper Sticker :

Big Bangs Happen

New Bumper Sticker :

Big Bangs Happen"And if we don't yet know the cause we'll invent an invisible man in the sky and attribute it to him."

I love science .The more we learn,the more they confirm God's existence.

Not really. :)

Really, NK? Seriously now, "spontaneous creation is the reason there is something" is how we all got here? Who did the spontaneous creating?

Genesis has been dutifully revised :

1:1 In the beginning there was nothing ,the universe was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

1:2 And then it exploded.

God = gravity? What a pecular idea, but then I expect if I was confined to a wheel chair and couldn't speak I'd have pecular ideas too

Really, NK? Seriously now, "spontaneous creation is the reason there is something" is how we all got here? Who did the spontaneous creating?

It's a matter of faith. Our faith says something created something . Hawking's faith says that nothing created something.

God = gravity? What a pecular idea, but then I expect if I was confined to a wheel chair and couldn't speak I'd have pecular ideas too

Duplication is the standard of science . Therefore it should be no problem for Hawking to demonstrate spontaneous creation.

It's a matter of faith. Our faith says something created something . Hawking's faith says that nothing created something.

I knew it was matter of faith, I was just struggling with how to put it this early in the morning. That was perfect.

Duplication is the standard of science . Therefore it should be no problem for Hawking to demonstrate spontaneous creation.

Maybe that Large Hadron Collider scientists created is already duplicating it.

Duplication is the standard of science . Therefore it should be no problem for Hawking to demonstrate spontaneous creation.

So what you are saying is one vacuum begets another?

The complexity of the mind of Hawking is boggling .
There are laws without lawgivers ;there are effects without cause, there is creation without a creator.
I guess 'stranger than fiction' is a valid axiom in this case .But mathematics has that covered too. There are logical axioms and non-logical ones.

Hello:

Well, you guys have a STAKE in the outcome of this discussion, don't you?? Otherwise, your lives will become shams... So, I'd stick to it too.

I'm one of the lucky ones, though, because if I'm wrong, God will STILL welcome me into heaven... But, if YOU'RE wrong, you've wasted your life...

What?? MY God doesn't require selfless devotion to him like yours does... Besides, MY God thinks it's cool to smoke his natural herbs, and he HATES people who put smokers in jail. So, you better hope that it's YOUR God at the gates instead of MINE.

excon

Glad to see the acknowledgement of a 'higher' authority .
You truly are 'evolving '.

Maybe that Large Hadron Collider scientists created is already duplicating it.
Romans 1 :19-22

[Hawking] adds: "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing."

Where did gravity come from?

Where did God come from?
God's mom and dad!

Where did God come from?
God's mom and dad!Hello asking:

**greenie**

Pretty astute question.

excon

Really, NK? Seriously now, "spontaneous creation is the reason there is something" is how we all got here? Who did the spontaneous creating?

Nobody's to blame, its just one of those things

Genesis has been dutifully revised :

1:1 In the beginning there was nothing ,the universe was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

1:2 And then it exploded.

Spontanious combustion :D

Hello again,

Actually, it's parallel "branes" (membranes) from other dimensions that sometimes come together to create a bang and a Universe. It happens all the time - if there IS such a thing as time..

That's as simple as I can explain the physics. Don't you wish you were as smart as Hawking and me?

excon

spontanious combustion :DLike voices coming from burning bushes or talking snakes. LOL!

The complexity of the mind of Hawking is boggling .
There are laws without lawgivers ;there are effects without cause, there is creation without a creator.
I guess 'stranger than fiction' is a valid axiom in this case .But mathematics has that covered too. There are logical axioms and non-logical ones.

Guess its better to say 'i don't know how it happened' than to say 'my imaginary friend did it'

Like voices coming from burning bushes or talking snakes. LOL!

And suddenly the bush burst into flames and started talking to abraham wasn't it? :D

Moses

MosesHello again,

Nahhh... It was Charlton Heston...

excon

Doesn't matter what Hawkings said... it's about what the Bible says.. the words in red.

What words in red??

The New Testament. Yes the old testament was where creation was written about, it's the foundation for the new testament.

Okay not going to argue with you. Bye

Where did God come from?
God's mom and dad!

I was going to ask the same thing!

If the Universe could be created out of nothing what about God?
That means God had to be created by someone seeing as how he couldn't just appear out of nothing!

@kit
Not arguing, just wanted to know where do we see words written in red.

@kit
Not arguing, just wanted to know where do we see words written in red.




NK... The words that Jesus spoke are written in red.

I didn't know that, thanks for the info.

I didn't know that, thanks for the info.






You're welcome. Okay who are you and what have you done to NK? We want him back.NOW!

This is the real me. :)

guess its better to say 'i dont know how it happened' than to say 'my imaginary friend did it'

It would be more intellectually honest. I admit that my belief is a faith .He thinks science explains his faith .I say all he really did was renamed God "spontaneous creator" .

He says laws of nature like gravity cause creation .But gravity would not exist in the physical world without matter .There would be no purpose for it otherwise. Gravity did not create matter.
So which came 1st ? Gravity or matter ? If matter came 1st then his theory is shot down. If gravity came 1st then how were the laws of nature designed ?

This is the real me. :)

Cute:)

It would be more intellectually honest. I admit that my belief is a faith .He thinks science explains his faith .I say all he really did was renamed God "spontaneous creator" .

He says laws of nature like gravity cause creation .But gravity would not exist in the physical world without matter .There would be no purpose for it otherwise. Gravity did not create matter.
So which came 1st ? Gravity or matter ? If matter came 1st then his theory is shot down. If gravity came 1st then how were the laws of nature designed ?

So what about black holes, I'm pretty sure they aren't made of physical matter but they have an enormous gravitational pull?

A black hole is condensed and compact mass. It is not "nothing ".

A black hole is condensed and compact mass. It is not "nothing ".


You're right Tomder.. We can't see the air we breath, but without it we would die. God created that also.

Hello again,

The which came first argument will yield NO results... What I'm interested in is infinity. Maybe God has been around forever. Certainly, the "brane" theory indicates that these membranes have been around forever.

But, I have a hard time grasping FOREVER. Don't you? I mean, it's easy in these arguments to just SAY it, and brush your hands... But, I think there NEEDS to BE a beginning.

excon

A black hole is condensed and compact mass. It is not "nothing ".

ahhh reet, I thought they were a vacumme like space, just something else going on as well.

albears knowledge on black holes = updated

Hello again,

The which came first argument will yield NO results... What I'm interested in is infinity. Maybe God has been around forever. Certainly, the "brane" theory indicates that these membranes have been around forever.

But, I have a hard time grasping FOREVER. Don't you? I mean, it's easy in these arguments to just SAY it, and brush your hands... But, I think there NEEDS to BE a beginning.

excon

Agreed, everything has a beginning and an end

Well... there is some theory too that space is not vacuum ;)

Here's a quite interesting one:
~~~~~
Genrally
Unlike poles attract... like poles repel
Unlike charges attract... like charges repel
Unlike sex 'attract'... like sex 'repel'
So... matter attracts antimatter and matter repels matter...

Then why is there gravity?
Space is not a vacuum, but like a field which gets distorted by matter. Just like when you are standing on a bed, the bed is compressed under your feet, space is distorted. And anything that is on the bed gets trapped towards the distortion. If you placed a ping pong ball near the edge of the bed, it'll roll down towards you.

~~~~~

It's just a though... might be true, might not be true :)

This is getting into flying spaghetti monster territory but how do we know the big bang wasn't caused by someone else? From another universe?

How do we know our universe wasn't populated and contained planets before the big bang, but was destroyed, leaving all but a few remnants? Our sun is going to die eventually, maybe there was another sun beforew that, and another before that?

There are just so many possibilities. That first theory does coincide with the theory of Creation, but how do you know it's God and not someone else?

I won't go into my opinion of how God was created as I will no doubt offend a lot of people :o

Denseness:
A neutron star is as dense as a battleship packed into a one pint mayonnaise jar. A black hole is even more dense than that.

I tend to believe gravity came first. Its force is nuetral until acted upon. Just like a magnet has a sphere of influence so does gravity. That is why it has different stages.

But, I think there NEEDS to BE a beginning.

Well ex, that's what we've been saying. Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created..." :D

This is getting into flying spaghetti monster territory but how do we know the big bang wasn't caused by someone else? From another universe?

How do we know our universe wasn't populated and contained planets before the big bang, but was destroyed, leaving all but a few remnants? Our sun is going to die eventually, maybe there was another sun beforew that, and another before that?

There are just so many possibilities. That first theory does coincide with the theory of Creation, but how do you know it's God and not someone else?

I won't go into my opinion of how God was created as I will no doubt offend a lot of people :o

Maybe we've just been going in a big circle and eventually we advance so far that we engage planetary war with another and laugh some kind of massive overly powered super nuke or something and so do they and they collide mid space and then explode (thats the big bang) wiping ut almost everything but the tiniest of life and the evolution cycle starts all over again even the suns expanding and collapsing in on themselves and other stars being born.

Its just one big circle of life :D


If anybody lives to see this, I want you to remember I called it ;)

Well this sums it all up really ;)

http://www.vtaide.com/png/images/egg-chicken.jpg

I haven't looked at what Hawking has written but I would guess that it will turn out to be a book about a possible Grand Unified Theory (GUT).

The problem has been gravity. Why is gravity such a weak force compared to the other fundamental forces? Physicists to date haven't been able to merge gravity into the other fundamental forces. Now there seems to be a theory which accounts for the apparent weakness of gravity.

Such a theory tends to lead some scientists and cosmologists to a belief that a theory of everything is now possible. This might suggest to us non-scientists that scientific theories may eventually come to a single underlying explanation. In theory scientists will be able to predict the outcome of any experiment. I think this is what Hawking means when he talks about, "knowing the mind of God."

I think this is more of a hope on Hawkings part rather than an actual replacement of God.

Just a guess on my part.


Tut

But, I think there NEEDS to BE a beginning.

But that's only because you are a finite, linear-thinking kind of guy. I'm still fascinated by something Sylvia Browne said long ago that the deceased are all walking around us, but three feet up off our ground level -- sort of a parallel universe. So be sure to flush and throw your clothes into the hamper -- and make your bed every morning. Someone may be watching you.

Well this sums it all up really ;)

http://www.vtaide.com/png/images/egg-chicken.jpg

Yeah true, but my version had space battles, explosions and possibly even lightsabers (if I don't get sued) :)

Well this sums it all up really ;)


And don't you dream of a day when chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned?

And don't you dream of a day when chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned?

I love this!

I love this!

Yeah, but I really hoped for lightsabers.

You all are just silly. ;)

Don't you know that the big white bunny created everything? That's why he gives us easter eggs and chocolate on Easter day. I mean really... duh! ;)

I still believe the egg came first. Just saying.

Ben, what a huge can of worms you've opened. Is this my influence? Giggle. :)

Tut , Hawking's attempt to find an 'Everything Theory' is just so much pulling at 'strings'.

I still believe the egg came first. Just saying.

Probably... genetic mutation being what it is means that probably something besides a chicken laid the egg.

Tut , Hawking's attempt to find an 'Everything Theory' is just so much pulling at 'strings'.

But so is God.

I find it amazing that people that believe in the almighty God base their belief on a book written by men. God didn't write it. Jesus didn't write it. It was a bunch of men that wrote it.

I wrote a book, it's about a duck that talks, has a star on it's back, and plays video games. Even books based on fact are blown way out of proportion.

It's a book. Yes, it's called the bible (snazzy title), but it's a book. If you're basing all your beliefs on a book written by mere men, than you would logically have to consider other books written by men. Not all books agree with "The Bible". So who do you believe?

You're putting a lot of faith in a book. Just saying.

big white bunny
White? How big is big? Like, obese?

I wrote a book, it's about a duck that talks, has a star on it's back, and plays video games.
*cough* Yeah, whatever happened to that book?

White? How big is big? Like, obese?

Well this is his brother, the grey bunny of the family.

32938

Alt . My comment to Tut was a play on words. Hawking is trying to tie a bunch of what are called 'string theories' together into one unifying theory to explain everything. An ambitious project for us mere mortals.

If I did not have the Bible I would still believe in a creator of the universe God . Many humans who have never read the Bible share this belief so it is more than just a book.

*cough* Yeah, whatever happened to that book?

:eek: I'm getting to it. Really I am. I promise.

Hey, we can't hijack Ben's thread, he'll kill us and the bunny too. :eek:

Alt . My comment to Tut was a play on words. Hawking is trying to tie a bunch of what are called 'string theories together into one unifying theory to explain everything. An ambitious project for us mere mortals.

If I did not have the Bible I would still believe in a creator of the universe God . Many humans who have never read the Bible share this belief so it is more than just a book.

I'm not saying I buy Hawkings theory any more than I buy the bible. It's all just theory in my opinion.

I respect that you believe what you do. I once believed too. A series of events changed my beliefs. I still believe a God created the universe, or at least had a hand in it, but I don't believe he's a loving presence guiding our lives and looking out for us. Just a difference of opinion. :)

For the present discussion I was not invoking the God of the Bible beyond the believe in God the Creator .[Except my reference to Romans 1:19-22]

You say I still believe a God created the universe, or at least had a hand in it. Then we are in agreement .

I don't believe he's a loving presence guiding our lives and looking out for us.
But He brought you into MY life. That was Him looking out for me.

But He brought you into MY life. That was Him looking out for me.

:) Well, how can I argue with that? Darnit. You win. :)

probably ...genetic mutation being what it is means that probably something besides a chicken laid the egg.

Exactly. You all get As in biology.

Aww... I was looking for an A*...

;)

Abraham taught that God is infinite. Gautama taught that God is within each of us. Now Hawking is trying to say God is an equation. Ambitious of him.

Hawkings is no different than anyone else .In quest to find his personal God he is doing what humans have done since they found the time to reason... create one that he can understand in his own terms.

I understand the laws of physics as well as most laymen ;compared to Hawkings ,hardly at all. Perhaps it gives him comfort to equate or to replace God to mathematical equations .

For myself ; I prefer something closer to the personal God that Johnny Cash sang about.

Your own, personal, Jesus
someone to hear your prayers,
someone who cares

Your own, personal, Jesus
someone to hear your prayers,
someone who's there

Feeling unknown
and you're all alone,
flesh and bone,
by the telephone,
lift up the receiver,
i'll make you a believer

Take second best,
put me to the test,
things on your chest,
you need to confess,
i will deliver,
you know i'm a forgiver

Reach out and touch faith
Reach out and touch faith

Hawkings is no different than anyone else .[/I]

The one absolute fact in this thread: everyone's perceptions are different.

The one absolute fact in this thread: everyone's perceptions are different.

Despite there are some like perceptions, I'll agree :)