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kljland
Aug 27, 2010, 02:28 PM
My 220 spa keeps kicking the ground fault in the disconnect instantly. I thought it was the spa so I unhooked the wires at the breaker that run to the spa and it is still kicking off instantly. I then replaced the ground fault breaker at a cost of 100 and it is still kicking. I am at a loss. Could it be the disconnect box that the breaker is in or the wire from the house panel to the ground fault breaker. The breaker in the house panel is not kicking.

hkstroud
Aug 27, 2010, 07:37 PM
Is the GFCI in the panel or is it in the disconnect box?

tkrussell
Aug 28, 2010, 03:02 AM
How/where is the white neutral pigtail of the GFI breaker connected?

Photos will be a big help.

kljland
Aug 28, 2010, 05:45 AM
The breaker is in the disconnect. The white neutral is run to a ground bar in the disconnect panel. Not the same bar as the copper ground.

I have a picture just cannot seem to get it into this post. If you know how I will gladly post it.

tkrussell
Aug 29, 2010, 04:22 AM
IS the bar the white pigtail connected to the neutral bar. That contains the neutral white from the feeder? This neutral bar should be insulated from any equipment ground, including the panel metal box.

Which version of AMHD are you using? There are several different ones. Someplace where type can reply to this thread, will be an advanced option, and there will be a button at the top of the window you type your answer in to manage attachments, this will allow you to add a photo to your post.

hkstroud
Aug 29, 2010, 04:37 AM
Converting picture files to JPEG format helps to reduce size.

Old version of AMHD,
To post pictures upload them to your computer in JPEG format. Make your post, click on the "Go Advance" button below the "Answer this Question" block. Scroll down an click on "Manage Attachments" browse to find pictures, click "Open", click "Upload".

kljland
Aug 29, 2010, 06:36 AM
Got the picture uploaded thank you for the help

Stratmando
Aug 29, 2010, 07:04 AM
Try removing the Neutral, annd see if it trips.
You are turning all the way off and back on?

tkrussell
Aug 29, 2010, 07:17 AM
Try what Strat requests.

Looks connected properly.

It is difficult to see if the neutral bar is bonded or not. Should not be.

Check to be sure there is not a screw that is in the neutral bar that goes through the bar and is threaded into the metal box of the panel. If so, remove that screw.

Stratmando
Aug 29, 2010, 07:58 AM
TK, the Neutral is the only thing left, wonder if there is a difference in potential between Neutral and Ground, Strange.

KISS
Aug 29, 2010, 08:15 AM
I think I see a bare ground wire on the "NEUTRAL" bar at the bottom. Not good.

Verify that the neutral bar is not connected to ground.

Does the Spa use neutral?

kljland
Aug 29, 2010, 08:42 AM
I measured the resistance between the neutral bar and ground bar and got 00.2 in both boxes.

Stratmando
Aug 29, 2010, 08:47 AM
Remove from the panel and see if it resets.

kljland
Aug 29, 2010, 08:57 AM
I can get it to reset in and out of the panel. As soon as I turn the breaker on at the house panel it kicks the disconnect ground fault breaker instantly.

Stratmando
Aug 29, 2010, 09:49 AM
Earlier it sounded like it was tripping with no load connected?
What is connected when it trips?
GFI may be good and we can get to the SPA, but the GFI needs to be able to be reset with no wires connected First.

kljland
Aug 29, 2010, 10:11 AM
Spa and wires to the spa are disconnected. Have breaker in house panel with wires running to the disconnect which has the ground fault breaker. The load to the spa is unhooked.

kljland
Aug 29, 2010, 10:50 AM
Here is a small drawing I did

KISS
Aug 29, 2010, 11:50 AM
Take the neutral coming from the house and wirenut it to the pigtail. Bet it will work. Everything else as you had it.

kljland
Aug 29, 2010, 04:23 PM
Well tried connecting the pig tail to the neutral from the house. Still instant kick.

Stratmando
Aug 29, 2010, 04:50 PM
To Verify, With the 2 hots and neutral disconnected and the coiled neutral is tied to neutral, it still trips?
What is the voltage between each hot and neutral and ground? Your low resistance says it will be nothing or extremely low.

kljland
Aug 29, 2010, 05:02 PM
Yes all load side unhooked and pig tail run to neutral still trips.

OK line side still hooked up. White to Neutral 118 Black to Neutral 118. Whit to Ground 119 Black to Ground 119.

KISS
Aug 29, 2010, 05:24 PM
Is the neutral bar part of the breaker?

Stratmando
Aug 29, 2010, 05:44 PM
Here is a picture how it should be wired:
How to wire a GFCI diagram, 3 & 4 wire set up • SpaForums.Com 1-866-364-9681 (http://spaforums.com/Installation/Electrical-Hook-Up/Wire-Gfci-Diagram-Wire_1701.html&p=20489)
Sounds like white is used as 1 of your hots and you may not have a Neutral, may not need a neutral for your spa, does it have terminals for 3 or 4 wires?

kljland
Aug 29, 2010, 06:01 PM
No the neutral bar is separate. The spa has a red slot labeled hot a white slot labeled neutral a black slot labeled hot and a ground bar.

kljland
Aug 29, 2010, 06:08 PM
Here are some pictures of the breaker I replaced they said was bad. One is front view one is bottom view (load side).

tkrussell
Aug 30, 2010, 02:36 AM
There is a chance the panel the defective breaker was plugged into is defective also, for the GFI to be tripping with no load wires connected.

I see no other connection problem with the new GFI.

kljland
Aug 30, 2010, 05:36 PM
Could it be the new breaker is defective? If so how might I check it? I pulled the box apart today and do not see any burns. I by passed the box and breaker temporary and everything is working.

KISS
Aug 30, 2010, 05:56 PM
One way is a clamp ground tester meter with peak hold, but doubt you have one of them.

You "MAY" be able to tell something, if you can insert a milliammeter in the ground lead. At the inside panel would be best. It's not a real safe test to do.

Check for voltage from the unconnected ground wire to ground.

With the inside breaker off. Check for voltages to ground and check resistances from L1, L2 to the connected ground. And L1, L2 to the disconnected ground wire.

kljland
Aug 30, 2010, 06:12 PM
Might be better off buying a new box and the breaker comes with it. I am just trying to make sure it is not the wire before the disconnect. I did unhook the wires from the inside panel and the disconnect today and OHM the wires. Did not see anything on those wires.

kljland
Aug 30, 2010, 06:13 PM
i want to thank everyone for the help

kljland
Aug 31, 2010, 03:59 PM
Think it is a faulty breaker I bought. Had a friend with the same box. Put my breaker in it no load and it kicked instantly. Ran wire from his breaker to mine not having it mounted and it tripped.

kljland
Sep 6, 2010, 06:00 PM
Well changed out the breaker again. Seems the breaker I bought was defective and caused this entire headache.