I put a new tub in the bathroom and the drain is in a different location.
Now the drain sits over the foundation wall, between the joists. Is this the configuration I came up with. Is it considered a s trap or does it look OK.
Thanks jim
[https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/attachments/plumbing/32790d1282761629-considered-s-trap-capture.jpg

I would consider this to be an S trap which is both illegal by most codes and a bad idea. Water falling down that last 90 bend will siphon the air trap water from the trap.

How much distance must you have between the P trap and the 90 degree elbow for it to be legal? My nephew is running into the same problem.

Hey Lucky,

Is this the configuration,(see image) I came up with. Is it considered a s trap
Yep! Sure looks like a "S" trap to me. Where the ell sets there should have been a tee with the drain going into the branch and a vent coming out of the top.

Jlisenbe,
How much distance must you have between the P trap and the 90 degree elbow for it to be legal? It doesn't work that way. No matter how much distance is between the trap and the ell it's still a "S" trap until it's been vented.
Sorry guys! Tom

Thanks. That does make sense. That's why I read this board. Good info.

If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck,it must be a duck. Can somebody show me what it should look like? The second picture shows. The horizontal. Run going about three feet to the right where it goes into a wye into the main line,that's where the vent comes off that fitting and goes straight up. Would I have to take the vent from there and run it to the s trap?

You should have extended your verticle pipe so the trap would exit at the height of your lower drain line. Having to go back down right after the trap causes the siphon action. Extend the verticle, remove the 2 90s rotate your drain by rolling it over a quarter turn so it points toward the trap. Since some of this is PVC weld your have to cut out and toss some materials.

That was the problem, I couldn't extend the vertical pipe any lower.
The trap is sitting on top of the foundation wall and can't drop anymore. That's why I had to extend it back into the basement, then down.
Jim

Then you should use some elbows to move the location of your trap away from the obstruction. Several 45s are preferred to 2 90s.

the trap is sitting on top of the foundation wall
If this were my call I'd chip away at the top of the foundation until I could drop the trap and elbo off it into the drain line. The trap's close enough to the vent so you're good to go there.
Will this job be inspected? Good luck, Tom

How much distance must you have between the P trap and the 90 degree elbow for it to be legal? My nephew is running into the same problem.

In my area, Inspectors ask for at least 6" of horizontal pipe between P-Trap and first 90 ell.

However, they could have install 2 - 45 degree bends on that long pipe ( pic 2 ) to bring it closer to the joists and lower the P-trap few more inches. That way, no 2-90 ells would be necessary.

I gave it another shot. The pipes are just dry fitted.
Maybe I could get a thumbs up or down on this.
Thanks jim
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4101/4928624282_623a9d3631_s.jpg
IMG_20100826_000222 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/36142943@N02/4928624282/in/photostream/)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4122/4928029601_131fa56914_s.jpg
IMG_20100826_000421 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/36142943@N02/4928029601/in/photostream/)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4073/4928029881_5380e854fb_s.jpg
IMG_20100826_000251 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/36142943@N02/4928029881/in/photostream/)

Hi Lucky...

As mentioned above, 90s aren't great here, but I think you have done the most reasonable thing next to breaking out part of the foundation or drilling through the joists.

I would prefer to see you use 45s instead of using 90s to get from the tub drain to the trap if you could move the trap closer to the foundation, but I doubt that is possible looking at the pictures.

Otherwise, really looks like a job well done!

Mark

Originally Posted by jlisenbe
How much distance must you have between the P trap and the 90 degree elbow for it to be legal? My nephew is running into the same problem.

In my area, Inspectors ask for at least 6" of horizontal pipe between P-Trap and first 90 ell.
Milo, Are you saying your area will allow a "S" trap as long as there's a piece of pipe 6" long between the trap and luckys first elbo? That his " long between the trap and luckys first elbo? That his " trap would pass in your area if he had added a 6" piece of pipe between trap and ell?' Or were you referring to a ell that's turned horizontally and not turned down like luckys?

Lucky, Your first photo still shows ne a " trap would pass in your area if he had added a 6" trap while the next two show me running traps.
Running traps are outlawed in Illinois and UPC. Think about it. A running trap is simply a horizontal "S" trap aren't they? I still say chip out some of the foundation, lower the "S" trap and turn the ell horizontal instead of down to pick up the drain line. Good luck, Tom

I believe you said the vent was only two bays away. What's the possibility of going through the joist. Won't be easy drilling through that double joist.

Edit:
That wall looks like block, I'd go with Tom' suggestion.

Tom...

Lucky can't chip out the foundation as there are 3 big pipes in between the PVC drain pipe and the foundation wall.

Short of putting the trap up in the joists and drilling the joists to run the vent back to connect to the existing vent all looks good to me, except fot the things I mentioned at my last post...

Your thoughts, please?

Hey Harold,
Here's what lucky said about the vent.
the horizontal. Run going about three feet to the right where it goes into a wye into the main line,that's where the vent comes off that fitting and goes straight up.
What lucky's trying to do is get away from that "S" trap he's built and I don't believe a running trap's the answer.

Mark, I'm probably missing something here but if the "J" bend's setting on top of the foundation then I can see no reason the trap can't be lowered to pick up the drain line. What pipes are between the trap and the drain line? Regards, Tom

All these pipes... see pic. Lucky could also lower the drain line all the way back toward the waste stack and then cut into the foundation, but I'm thinkin' at that point it would be simpler to set the trap into the joists and drill holes to send the vent back and connect to the vent in the joist bay.

Otherwise, I'd leave it as he he has it piped now.

Mark,
That's just a "dry fitteds" running trap he's built. In his first picture it clearly shows the bend of the trap resting on top of the foundation. Why can't that be chipped to lower the trap, turn the elbo to the horizontal to pick uyp the drain line?
That is the foundation the bend's setting isn't it? Cheers, Tonm

I see what you are saying about chipping into the foundation to set the trap at the right level, but then how does the horizontal drain pipe go through the copper pipes to connect to the trap? :p

Only way it could be done is to run the drain above the copper pipe and that negates the vent... right?

I thought I was out of the woods for a minute.
I wanted to add a few things to help clear things up.
I tried to used 45s but the copper pipes were in the way of that angle.
The foundation wall is poured, not block.
There are copper lines and a gas pipe in between the trap and the wall.
There is also electrical lines that set on top of the wall that you can't see in the picture.
After massplumber said it looked like a good job, I glued everything together -oops.
Here is another picture from the bottom to show the pipes:
IMG_20100826_122048 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/36142943@N02/4929828376/)
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4096/4929828376_cf6bb4261a_z.jpg

In kind of a pickle aren't you? If you try to chip out that concrete wall which I assume is 10" thick you risk blowing out the exterior side. Not only that, you would have to notch down enough to get the trap below the copper pipes and gas line.

I think I would notch the sill plate to get the trap as low as possible, turn the trap parallel to the band board, 90 out of the trap, then a tee to go through the joist for the vent pipe. Hopefully top of the hole for the vent will not be closer than 2" to the top of the joist. What size are the floor joist? I guess you could just run the drain through the joist to the vent

Mark or Tom,
What is the smallest vent pipe that could be used.

Just my two cents. Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do. In this case, I say you did just fine, it will work and at least the running trap as you have it won't siphon the trap like the s- trap you had would have. Is this being inspected? If not, I say let it be and pat yourself on the back. If it is, I would have the local inspector look at it the way you have it now, and see if he will let it slide, or tell you how he would like to see it done. Good luck and please let us know the final outcome.

Thanks for the replies. I wasn't planning on getting it inspected, but maybe that would be a good idea
Can someone fill me in on the running trap issue. I never heard that term. This doesn't seem as bad as a laundry stand pipe.

OK! I didn't saee the copper until I opened up up "go advanced".
For some reason it didn't show up in the other posts. I still wonder if the trap were lowered enough to clear the copper would that put backfall on the drain line? I'll go along with a running trap, (are they even legal in his area) The distance between trap and vent seems OK so I wish lucky luck in his project. Regards, Tom

I've been tracking this thread all day. It's been entertaining. Lots of good exchanges and information.

Hey jliserb,
Had I seen the copper under the trap I might not have pushed to install a "P" trap. I've been retired for over 20 years and am still learning from you other experts. You guys make my day.
Didn't mean to "bust yo chops" about this Mark. Cheers, Tom

For the ignorant among us, what exactly is a "running trap", and why is it a problem?

what exactly is a "running trap", and why is it a problem?

Running traps (see images) are traps located in the drainage piping that are not directly connected with a fixture. Many older homes had running traps in the building sewer, typically in the front lawn. These traps were designed to prevent sewer gases from entering the house. Modern homes do not have running traps since they were found to be unnecessary once effective venting systems were designed.