Entire story merged

I meet the girl of my dreams at about this time last year and we end up going out for six bliss filled months. We take it slow and cautious, waiting to have sex, waiting to pop the love word for several months, but when we do commit it's something sudden, simultaneous and totally amazing. For the last three of those six months she's with me she basically lives in my house and we even manage to go on a dream vacation to New York City together (despite a limited college budget), no sex the whole damn time, just her and I being with one another and being happy.

I've emphasized the slowness on becoming sexual in our relationship, but when we did go all the way there is no doubt in my mind that it was the best either one of us has ever experienced on that front. It was special and spectacular.

It comes to the end of these six months and she's going off to study in Hong Kong for a year while I stay here in the States all by my lonesome. Before she goes, she tells me she wants to work it out, to make things last between the two of us despite the distance. She tells me I'm her other half and that she'll love me forever - I feel the same way.

Two months later, as we're on the phone, she says that even though I can work it out to be around after I graduate to be near for her final year she doesn't want me there, so she can focus more on her schooling. She also says that after she graduates she wants to go abroad to Germany for a year to live the life out there and despite the fact that monetarily speaking it will be difficult for me to join her for more than weeks at a time (she's from a higher class than myself in terms of wealth). I say I need to think about things.

I do and decide that I can wait through anything for her. She has thought otherwise and dumps me over the phone. We start promising to meet each other at the end of it all and reignite things, but that wears and she starts to dodge contact. I try to talk to her once a week, send one or two emails a week, but she begins to find reasons not to respond. I get angry and call her on it and she says that she needs space.

Months pass, we try to be friends despite my negative feelings over being dumped, and she says she'll call me on my birthday. I mention that I work early that day but she forgets and calls early anyway and we end up rescheduling the talk for later. I mishear the day and end up getting unbelievably drunk the night she calls (a night sooner than I expected) and end up chewing her out over the phone, calling her dishonest and shallow. I remember none of this conversation for being so drunk, so it's her word I'm taking on this stuff. She reveals she's seeing another guy during this talk (the one thing I do remember) but I still write and apologize the next day.

She writes back saying she never wants to speak to me again. Despite this, we chat off and on over the internet through course of a few months, but I sense her reservations and write a letter saying that while I don't understand why she did what she did, I still want to be friends and will not ask her back (something she said was a breaking point during the time we were attempting to be friends before, something that bothered her greatly) despite my feelings. She ignores me and has done so for a month since, ignoring one additional email and another message wishing her a merry Christmas.

I still love her. I still feel that the two of us were as perfect as a couple can be. What am I supposed to make of her actions? I can't help but feel that if we were once again face to face things would be fabulous. But I can't convince myself to sit on my butt and hope for the best to come my way - it seems foolish not to get back into the mix and move on. Yet I worry for her desperately and wish her back. Day by day it gets easier to live without her, but all the same I know we'd still be good together. What should I do? Respond in kind and pretend she doesn't exist? Persist in what I think would be best for both of us?

Sorry for writing so long, but it's something I needed to flesh out completely. Thanks for anyone who read all this garbage and bothers to respond - I greatly appreciate it.

Move on and get a life you enjoy without her.

Part 1 of 2



I meet the girl of my dreams at about this time last year and we end up going out for six bliss filled months.

Key words…”Your dreams” not hers.


We take it slow and cautious, waiting to have sex, waiting to pop the love word for several months, but when we do commit it's something sudden, simultaneous and totally amazing.

Was this the first time a girl told you she loved you? The reason I ask is because that is how it feels the first time you hear it. Since then I’ve never described it that way. That being said maybe you just like the idea of being in love as opposed to being in love with her.


For the last three of those six months she's with me she basically lives in my house and we even manage to go on a dream vacation to New York City together (despite a limited college budget), no sex the whole damn time, just her and I being with one another and being happy.

Did you pay for that vacation?


I've emphasized the slowness on becoming sexual in our relationship, but when we did go all the way there is no doubt in my mind that it was the best either one of us has ever experienced on that front. It was special and spectacular.

It was the best you experienced. Don’t speak for her.


It comes to the end of these six months and she's going off to study in Hong Kong for a year while I stay here in the States all by my lonesome.

All by your lonesome? Focus on something else. Loneliness is a feeling. Change that feeling.


Before she goes, she tells me she wants to work it out, to make things last between the two of us despite the distance.

Oh a back up plan and perhaps someone that will send her gifts. At the very least a nice, cordial good bye.


She tells me I'm her other half and that she'll love me forever - I feel the same way.

Am I too understand this is after 6 months?


Two months later, as we're on the phone, she says that even though I can work it out to be around after I graduate to be near for her final year she doesn't want me there, so she can focus more on her schooling.

Yep. Don’t blame her. If I had the chance to study in Hong Kong I wouldn’t want any distractions either. Plus it’s hard to date other people if your there.


She also says that after she graduates she wants to go abroad to Germany for a year to live the life out there and despite the fact that monetarily speaking it will be difficult for me to join her for more than weeks at a time (she's from a higher class than myself in terms of wealth). I say I need to think about things. I do and decide that I can wait through anything for her.

Wow. You did not get the message. She was telling you that in an attempt to get rid of you by putting the blame on you. It was a convenient way for her to lose you and still save face for herself.


She has thought otherwise and dumps me over the phone.

Well, yeah. Like I said she was hoping you’d see that you can’t afford her, and you happen to live on the other side of the planet, so she gave you the nice send off. Your so far gone you still didn’t see it. Since you didn’t an old fashioned dumping had to take place.


We start out promising to meet each other at the end of it all and reignite things, but that wears and she starts to dodge contact.

You mean she dodges a guy on the other side of the planet that can’t get over her. In a sense you are stalking her with attention. You are needy. You are desperate. Her saving grace seems to be the ocean at this point.


I try to talk to her once a week, send one or two emails a week, but she begins to find reasons not to respond.

She doesn’t have too. She doesn’t owe you anything. She’s tried to be cordial and you keep pushing it. Why should she respond?


I get angry and call her on it and she says that she needs space.

Obviously! Stop and think about that. You had a woman on the OTHER SIDE OF THE PLANET tell you she needs space. Isn’t that a wake up call? If you were in the same city I fear that you would stalk this woman.


Months pass, we try to be friends despite my negative feelings over being dumped, and she says she'll call me on my birthday. I mention that I work early that day but she forgets and calls early anyway and we end up rescheduling the talk for later.

She didn’t forget. She was hoping that you wouldn’t answer. Come on. For the love of God don’t you see every hint she’s throwing at you?


I mishear the day and end up getting unbelievably drunk the night she calls (a night sooner than I expected)

Again, another attempt to call you when she though you’d be busy.


and end up chewing her out over the phone, calling her dishonest and shallow. I remember none of this conversation for being so drunk, so it's her word I'm taking on this stuff.

So she tells you this so that once again she has an out to not speak with you.


She reveals she's seeing another guy during this talk (the one thing I do remember) but I still write and apologize the next day.

As she has been doing for some time.

Part 2 of 2, I went over the 10000 word limit.



She writes back saying she never wants to speak to me again. despite this, we chat off and on over the internet through course of a few months, but I sense her reservations and write a letter saying that while I don't understand why she did what she did,

Really, well I came up with several reasons. Lets see they are;
1. Because she lives on the other side of the planet.
2 She has goals that are not in line with your own.
3. Your needy.
4. Your pushy.
5 You don't give her time to herself.
6. Your hung up on a 6 month relationship.
7. You have stalker like qualities.
8. You put her on a pedestal.
9. She can have you any time she wants you.


I still want to be friends and will not ask her back (something she said was a breaking point during the time we were attempting to be friends before, something that bothered her greatly) despite my feelings.

Why? What do you get from this friendship? She isn't interested. She tried to be friendly and you pushed too hard.


She ignores me and has done so for a month since, ignoring one additional email and another message wishing her a merry Christmas.

I don't blame her. I would too. Your stalking her through the phone, email, text, mail, I'm almost surprised you haven't gotten on a plane and flew to Hong Kong. If it wasn't for the lack of a passport, I bet you would have though.

How do you not get this. SHE'S NOT INTERESTED! It's over. It's been over for awhile. Her best friend right now the Pacific ocean. If not I'd swear you'd be at her place waiting for her every day.


I still love her.

She doesn't love you. In fact she doesn't even like you. Why would she? You've done everything to chase her away.


I still feel that the two of us were as perfect as a couple can be.

Are you out of you mind? You went out for 6 months. She's seeing someone else. She's given you every chance to back off. She's not interested. It was just a 6 month fling. Feelings are high for the beginning. She moved and then she moved on. There are 3 billion women in the world. The one you obsess with is on the other side of the world. You've got 3 billion other women to get to know. One of them is sure to like you at first. But if you don't change you behaviors you'll drive them away. Just like this one.


What am I supposed to make of her actions?

Dude, re-read your post as though I wrote it. What would you tell me? I seriously can't understand how you've missed every single hint and flat out words that she's told you. She's done. She's not interested.


I can't help but feel that if we were once again face to face things would be fabulous.

What are you basing that on?


But I can't convince myself to sit on my butt and hope for the best to come my way - it seems foolish not to get back into the mix and move on.

I agree. Move on. But before you do work on your desperation and neediness. Those repel women.


Yet I worry for her desperately and wish her back.

Why? She doesn't worry for you.


Day by day it gets easier to live without her, but all the same I know we'd still be good together.

No. No you wouldn't. She can't be free to be herself and you can't but help latch onto her.


What should I do?

Quit all contact now. No more Christmas, not New year's, no nothing. If you want a woman than starting acting like a man and quit this nonsense. A woman wants a strong, independent, and focused man. You offer none of those at this time. You can. You've got it in you. You've just got to develop it. When you do then you should start dating again.


Respond in kind and pretend she doesn't exist?

She doesn't. She's in China. Guess what there are a billion people in China. She's going to meet someone new.


Persist in what I think would be best for both of us?

What you think is the best is not. She knows it. I know it. Hopefully you stop all contact, and some day you too will know it.


Sorry for writing so long, but it's something I needed to flesh out completely.

Long ones are my specialty. Writing it all out can really help. Don't apologize for that. Hopefully by writing it out you were able to see some of the things that's going on here. If not, reread your original post and take yourself out of it. Put me in there. What would you say to me.


Thanks for anyone who read all this garbage and bothers to respond - I greatly appreciate it.



Look man, your emotional. I'm an emotional person too so I understand that sometimes this is harder for us being males we tend to act like female in that regard. But you've got to understand this relationship you have is not healthy. I'm not talking about her and you, but the relationship you have with yourself. It sound's like this was your first attempt at love, which if is the case the first break ups are hard to figure out. But that being said, I'm worried for you future when a break up occurs and she lives in the same city. How are you going to react then? You really got to find out why your so dependent on someone and then change that behavior. You're a smart guy so you can do it but the first step is to walk away from this and focus on college. In a few months when the wears off you can look back and figure out where you went wrong.

Well,

My only advice is for you to re-read everything Chuff has wrote which in my opinion is absolutely spot on!

Nice one for writing that Chuff..

Excellent analysis again chuff, LMAO, when you went over the limit. I will never understand why these guys can't see the handwriting on the wall, but If it's the first time I guess that's a hard thing to see coming.

Your words are odd because I've always considered myself a lone wolf and kind of prided myself on giving her space, part of the reason we worked so well together. I'm not really a pack it in kind of guy - I get out and enjoy life. I have lots of friends and such, etc etc. I mean I got straight As, dated other girls, hit the town on a regular basis, wrote a book and got two new jobs this past quarter... I'm a good looking, articulate guy and getting women has never been an issue for me. But this one was special. It's not like I'm sitting around in Mopetown all day. This girl was my best friend and I wanted to save that for the future.

I'm trying to be her friend because I want to move on rationally. I don't want her back because I know I can't trust her anymore. The reason I wanted to make room for life in the future with her was because we had often talked about this before she left. I just wanted to know if I was doing the best thing, accepting the fact that she doesn't want to be friends. Apparently so, because I guess I'm a stalker!

I have a passport, too... And just recently saved enough money for a trip to Hong Kong... Instead, I spent it on a trip to London to visit another friend...

But, you guys are the experts. All contact has basically been cut all ready, so there it goes... I mean, we haven't spoke on the phone in three months (though I have once or twice tried to convince her to arrange a time when we could, so that I can show her that there's no hard feelings and I just want to be buddies like we used to be)... But her friends are my friends, so this will be an issue in the future.

Oh, yes, it seems I didn't make it clear - when I said I could be around for her last year, that's one that's going to be in the states and not in Hong Kong. That's just this year.

I just wanted to know if I was doing the best thing, accepting the fact that she doesn't want to be friends. Apparently so, because I guess I'm a stalker!

By your own words you should focus on you and leave her alone. I think we all can agree on that.

Your words are odd because I've always considered myself a lone wolf and kind of prided myself on giving her space, part of the reason we worked so well together. I'm not really a pack it in kind of guy - I get out and enjoy life. I have lots of friends and such, etc etc. I mean I got straight As, dated other girls, hit the town on a regular basis, wrote a book and got two new jobs this past quarter... I'm a good looking, articulate guy and getting women has never been an issue for me. But this one was special. It's not like I'm sitting around in Mopetown all day. This girl was my best friend and I wanted to save that for the future.

That's all well and good. I'm sure you are all of those things that you describe. Look O.J. Simpson was good looking, rich, famous, and could have his pick from a large pick of women. But he got stuck up on one. By his own administion he stalk his ex wife. By his own admistion he used to park his car outside her house and wait for her. By his own adminstion he used to spy into her windows. Those are the things he ADMITTED too. Let's be real, despite the fact he says he didn't kill her I think we pretty much know otherwise. That is where those behaviors lead too ultimately if you can't stop them or control them. OJ Simpson didn't have to fight for any woman's attention. I'm using this extreme example to show you that anyone can get hooked up or caught up in this emotional rollar coaster. If it can happen to someone rich, famous, good looking, and with a ample supply of women then it can happen to anyone.


I'm trying to be her friend because I want to move on rationally.

Rationally let her go would be the thing to do. She' gone. You yourself said you haven't talked for 3 months. It was a 6 month relationship. You weren't married. You didn't have a lot of time invested in this. It's over. I realize you thought she was different but she's also gone.


I don't want her back because I know I can't trust her anymore. The reason I wanted to make room for life in the future with her was because we had often talked about this before she left. I just wanted to know if I was doing the best thing, accepting the fact that she doesn't want to be friends.

You are. This is the best thing for you though. You can't leave her alone. You got to move on.


Apparently so, because I guess I'm a stalker!

Reread your original post. Pretend that's me talking and tell me you don't get stalker from that. I'm going to repeat this for you... A WOMAN ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE PLANET EARTH TOLD YOU SHE NEEDS SPACE. That's a wake up call.


I have a passport, too... And just recently saved enough money for a trip to Hong Kong... Instead, I spent it on a trip to London to visit another friend...

I know you did. I knew when I wrote that, that you were planning to fly and see her. Everything you wrote lead to that. I'm guessing she somehow stopped you from coming or you started to realize that if you went she was going to avoid you.


But, you guys are the experts. All contact has basically been cut all ready, so there it goes... I mean, we haven't spoke on the phone in three months (though I have once or twice tried to convince her to arrange a time when we could, so that I can show her that there's no hard feelings and I just want to be buddies like we used to be)...

LBP that is stalking behavior. You, the man, should never have to convince her, the woman, that there are no hard feelings. You show it by your actions. Your actions should not be bothering her about a 6 month relationship. If none of this had taken place and you dropped her an email around this time of year saying Merry Christmas that would be one thing. But it's too late now.


But her friends are my friends, so this will be an issue in the future.

It will be an issue because you want it to be. It will be an issue because you can't let it go. I've worked with ex's and you know I don't talk to them at work. I don't bring that to work. Sometimes you might say hello but other than that it's over. I don't do that to be mean, I don't do that out of spite, I do it for my own emotional health.

You don't bring that to your friends. I'm telling you if you do you'll drive them away too. If they bring her up, just say, "Good for her, I'm happy for her" and change the subject.

Oh, yes, it seems I didn't make it clear - when I said I could be around for her last year, that's one that's gonna be in the states and not in Hong Kong. That's just this year.
I hate to say this but your wasting your time. You should seek some professional help, before you make a lot of trouble for yourself.

I suppose I can only agree with you... I mean, she told me she needed her space after we'd been talking for basically an hour a week which while I may be crazy for viewing things as such, strikes me as not so meriting so extreme a response. It makes me think that it's more about her than about me. I was ultimately asking for very little.

I guess my confusion comes from the fact that I don't understand how from the simple fact that romantically it appears things are over that I should then act as though she's not alive anymore. I mean, I still care about her. I don't need to have sex with her for that to be the case. We weren't just lovers. It's hard to get myself to believe that you abandon a friend simply because we can't be intimate anymore. Hell, I'm not going to see her for -years-. I'm not an idiot. Of course I'll meet and be with and fall in love with other women - it's an inevitability. For her, also. In fact, the notion that she is with other men is the least concerning out of all of this - I want her to be happy in whatever capacity she can be!

I guess the question I should have asked is: is it better to let her be happy by going along with her apparent decision to pretend I don't exist or follow my own thoughts and keep extending my hand as a friend (every few months, as I've been doing), for a simple shake?

As for the trip... She never knew that I'd got the money together. In fact, I was planning on making a joke that I'd spent it on flying to Hong Kong just to poke fun at the fact that she HAS been treating me like a stalker. I'd never go over there when I'm not wanted - I mean, where would I stay, for goodness sake? I don't have the financial wherewithal for that kind of stalking ;) ! A joke, just a joke!

Ya know, maybe I haven't been making myself clear in the SLIGHTEST. That whole planning to be together thing happened MONTHS AND MONTHS AGO. I'm moving out of California, the state she's going to be in, basically the month that she gets back. I have no plans to see her. I have no plans to go to Germany. In fact, I plan to be in Asia (when she's out of it) when she makes that move and then live in Europe when she goes back to the states. I WILL NOT BE SEEING THIS WOMAN FOR A VERY LONG TIME AND I'M OKAY WITH IT.

Should I have just asked whether you should make the effort to try and be friends with an ex, despite her resistance? Sorry for confusing things with unnecessary (and ultimately limited) backstory.

Just go back and reread this thread and how crazy you sound about a relationship that is over. You can rationalize all you want, but unless you cut contact to heal and get yourself to where you can look at things objectively then sir you will be stuck with these unhealthy thoughts and actions for some time to come. All I ask is YOU give yourself a chance to see reality and move from the fantasy world your stuck in.

Well... okay, then... I guess no to being friends is what you're saying?

Not to put to fine a point on it, but how could you possibly divine that I could be sitting outside a given person's window all day and all night from, what... eight or nine paragraphs worth of commentary on a subject toward which you have no closenesss? I'm not a madman and I've got a pretty good idea of what stalking is - I've seen it before and in fact helped friends move themsevles past that particular experience. I know the definition and to be accused of something I'd never do is a little disconcerting but is, I suppose, in its way assertive. Isn't what's been done here the through and through definition of pop psychology? I notice also that chuff has referred to himself in the third person twice in this thread alone. Should I decide that he's a hopeless narcisist based simply on that? I'm not saying that this is the case, because I do appreciate what advice he's given me, but pointing out the somewhat ridiculous nature of what's been said here so far.

I'm looking for general advice, not deep personal analysis. I mean, seriously, how could someone determine that I'm in need of 'professional help' based upon nothing more than a couple of pleas and what at best amounts to a few poorly worded statements and responses? What do you guys know, on a person to person basis, of what I've been through and what the me and my ex have experienced? Heck, I haven't even responded to half of your personal points on the simple basis that they've been too personal.

I debated on whether to answer this. I even saw it before you edited and just came back and re-read it before I started this. I'll be honest with you. Part of me says to ignore you now because I think your so far gone you don't “get it.” Part of me says to tear you a new one since you are now not happy with the advice you got and instead of stopping and thinking that maybe, just maybe we can see what's going on here and you can't, you now must shift he blame back to us. Because of course it's not your fault. It's not your fault for a lot of things I'd gather. And you'll be damned if someone will disrespect you, even if it's meant to help you out. That's a stalker trait too, interestingly enough.

But I'm going to attempt to help you because I want you to change. Not for me. Not for your ex. Not for any future women you meet but I want you to change and be happy with yourself. I want you to obsess over something positive, like a lifetime goal, not a woman. So let's take it step by step……..




Not to put to fine a point on it, but how could you possibly divine that I could be sitting outside a given person's window all day and all night from, what... eight or nine paragraphs worth of commentary on a subject toward which you have no closenesss?

I said that is how someone like OJ Simpson started and look at the path it took him on in life. I mentioned that because you told me you were good looking, never had a problem with women. My point wasn't that you had to be ugly, poor, or stupid to be that way. As I said before OJ Simpson could and did have many beautiful women. But for whatever reason he got so fixated on one that he was stalking her. He even admits to that. My point was this unhealthy behavior starts here but it leads you on road down somewhere else. I'm not calling you a double murderer or even anything remotely close. I'm saying to you that if OJ (or anyone, I only use him because we all know who he is) had realized early on that this behavior was not good for him and worked on changing it, perhaps he'd still have a career, and his kids would still have a mother.

As for you pointing out I have no closeness to the situation I will answer that with this. Not having closeness to the situation is what helps me see through all the emotional stuff your going through. When you study how human beings behave it gives you great incite into how they behave with one another. For example when a woman tells a guy she needs space she really is saying in the nicest way she can that she's not interested anymore. In fact if you really start analysising the behavior between men and women that statement, “I need space” is usually given by a woman when she has lost interest with a man because of his actions, or his behavior has changed from when she first met him. Generally when he becomes, “the nice guy” or “the abuser” she puts up with it for a little bit then brings it out. “I need space” is the easiest way of dumping someone without ending it all the way. It gives the guy a false hope. Kind of like you have. When she lives on the other side of the planet and you talk to her once a week and she says “I need space,” and I don't have to know either of you but you are being told to get out of her life. In this role she has continued to attempt to be on your good side for fear of upsetting you.




I'm not a madman and I've got a pretty good idea of what stalking is - I've seen it before and in fact helped friends move themsevles past that particular experience. I know the definition and to be accused of something I'd never do is a little disconcerting but is, I suppose, in its way assertive.


I'll answer that with this…..


As for the trip... She never knew that I'd got the money together. In fact, I was planning on making a joke that I'd spent it on flying to Hong Kong just to poke fun at the fact that she HAS been treating me like a stalker.



Isn't what's been done here the through and through definition of pop psycology?


Well to be honest I don't know the definition of pop psychology. Here's what I am willing to tell you about me. Here's what I do know. Your upset about this whole thing. Now your upset with us, and I think in particular me. I give it to you blunt, brother. And let me explain that to you. I'm not a prick or trying to demean you. I think your probably a great and caring guy but the problem people have when they come here is that they try what they see on TV and in the movies. That doesn't work. Then they ask there friends for advice. Friends, trying to do the right thing for you, their friend usually tell you what you want to hear, but not what is the truth. I'm going to say that again, FRIENDS TELL YOU WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR. Your friends only reinforce your behavior because they think they are being good friends by doing so.

People come here and post all kinds of things and they are so emotionally wrapped up in what's going on I have found the best way is to slap upside there face with reality. Some get it. Some get it right away. Some get it when several posters do the same thing. Unfortunately, there are some that want us to hold there hand and tell them everything's going to be all right. I'm may say many things but I'm not going to lie to you.


I notice also that chuff has refered to himself in the third person twice in this thread alone. Should I decide that he's a hopeless narcisist based simply on that?


I was attempting to be funny by agreeing with there post that my post was good advice. I sometimes try to bring some humor to the board via my posts. While we could probably agree that it might not have been funny I hope Geoff and Tal got it but since your new I apologize since it probably did come off a little arrogant. No disrespect was meant towards you or your situation.


I'm not saying that this is the case, but pointing out the somewhat ridiculous nature of what's been said here so far.


That being said, I don't think anything I've said related to you or your situation has been ridicules. Sounds to me like you weren't ready accept the reality so now your deflecting it back to me.


I'm looking for general advice, not deep personal analysis. I mean, seriously, how could someone determine that I'm in need of 'professional help' based upon nothing more than a couple of pleas and what at best amounts to a few poorly worded statements and responses?


Seriously, have your reread what you wrote. Have you put me in place of you? Do that. Tell me what you really think I should do if I wrote that. Professional counseling isn't a insult. Don't take it that way. It's an attempt to correct or learn about behaviors that are hurting you. Your stuck on a woman who you had a 6 month fling (and that's all it was, it wasn't a relationship), who lives in another country, on the other side of the earth, who doesn't like talking to you for even an hour a week, who you have not spoke to in 3 months. If you can't see that and the reality then I don't know how to get you to see it. Perhaps a therapist could though. It's not demeaning to you. I know you don't think so but I truly want to see you get back on your feet.


What do you guys know, on a person to person basis, of what I've been through and what the me and my ex have experienced?


Just what you've told us. What would your ex, who doesn't want to talk to you and says she needs space from China tell me? Something different?


Hell, I haven't even responded to half of your personal questions on the simple basis that they've been too personal.

Or more likely your afraid to really face the truth.

In fact if you really start analysising the behavior between men and women that statement, “I need space” is usually given by a woman when she has lost interest with a man because of his actions, or his behavior has changed from when she first met him. Generally when he becomes, “the nice guy” or “the abuser” she puts up with it for a little bit then brings it out. “I need space” is the easiest way of dumping someone without ending it all the way. It gives the guy a false hope. Kind of like you have. When she lives on the other side of the planet and you talk to her once a week and she says “I need space,” and I don't have to know either of you but you are being told to get out of her life. In this role she has continued to attempt to be on your good side for fear of upsetting you.

This is the best of what I've heard so far... I'm okay with disrespect! Respect is overrated. I've got a thick skin! I'm willing to accept blame! You were right when you said that this is the first time someone has told me they love me. I won't deny it. I also accept that I'm needy and was needy with her in particular - this is something I've admitted to her, in fact, in trying to make amends.

I'm not upset with any of you. I wish I could convey the tone of my voice through words, but it's just not possible. I appreciate anything and everything I've heard so far. In speaking to friends, I routinely point out to them that I was likely the during this whole thing and to not assume that I'm the good guy or that the best thing is to treat me like the abused party. One thing I've learned is that, no matter what (as you've just said), your friends will tell you that you've done the right thing and that you're a good person. This is tiresome advice - I'm glad to get a change from that in this place.

That said, to be told that I could potentially stalk someone is just nuts. I mean... Really? That's so the opposite of who I am that I just don't know how to react. I've got rid of all her old stuff she left me, including pictures and what have you. I've lost the letter she left me when she flew out (one talking about how I changed her life, etc etc) and deleted all the sexy pictures she sent me after she'd been in HK for a month. I understand what you're saying about the whole fling thing and you're likely correct. I probably put a whole lot more into this than she did (though most of the things I mentioned in my original post were in fact direct quotes from her to me, about 'love of my life' and 'best sex ever' etc - it's quite possible she was lying when she said these things, but she did say them!).

I'll say this, though - my ex is a person who habitually gets close to and then abandons others because she believes that her independence (and being able to travel the world, something most people cannot generally do, especially at our age) is the 100% most important thing in her life. She's had three long distance relationships with men and each of those three times she's ended up dumping them in less than three months, myself being the latest. She has had over 30 boy friends over the years and has dumped them all - it was such that when she started going out with me her dad, jokingly, told her 'oh, great, when you going to get around to dumping him?' this is why I worry for her. She has no frienship with any of the people she's parted from in her short life, virtually no friends from high school, very few people she keeps in contact from in her childhood. I, on the other hand, am resolute in staying in touch with people I've met over the years, though high school, elementary school and everything. This next week, as a matter of fact, I'm going off to visit with a friend I haven't seen in over five years and just yesterday visited a friend I haven't seen in almost two years.

Despite everything, I'm okay with being one of the long list of men she's been with and moved on from. She was a good friend and I want her to remain so. You all appear to think that I sit around with my head in my hands plotting how I'm going to get back into her heart. I'm not blind - it's obvious I won't! I'm not even going to be here when she gets back, though it's well within my power to do so!

Maybe I'm crazy and things are flying over my head left and right. Heck knows I'm not a perfect person. But my Dad, a guy who I do not generally respect, is a remarkable man in that every single ex girlfriend he has ever had he has ended up becoming a close and dear friend with (despite never getting involved with them romantically after the break up). I would like to emulate this trait, unusual (and apparently freakish) though it maybe. I suppose that restricts what I can accept from you guys (good advice though it may generally be), in that I'm more interested in doing what I can to perpetuate this possibility than anything else.

What it boils down to is what you've said above, chuffster. She's telling me to get out of her life. I just got to accept that this is the best way to make her happy, confusing (notice what I mentioned in the title) as that is to me, since supposedly making her happy is what I've been interested in from the start, in a relationship sense. I won't pretend she doesn't exist because that seems ridiculous, but she won't be hearing from me any time soon and I will certainly be looking to move to my next step romantically as soon as the next opportunity presents itself. This has always been the case.

LBP, if what you truly are seeking from this girl is friendship, there is nothing wrong with that. It is hard to lose someone we were once close to and care for. The problem here is that a friendship, like a relationship, must be mutual and nurtured by both parties to grow. She doesn't seem to want the friendship for some reason, and yes, of course that hurts you. It would hurt anyone. And yes, your dad's friendships with all of his exes is very unusual. Many exes simply cannot remain friends for a variety of reasons. It is an individual preference. Nothing wrong with doing it either way.

My advice to you at this point is to simply remain open to this girl. If I were you and the situation was worrying me so much, I would write a final simple email stating something like, "I wanted to write and wish you a Merry Christmas. I hope all is well with you. I know that we are far apart and don't get to see one another anymore, but I still hope we can stay in touch. I care for you and would love to remain friends. Feel free to contact me anytime. All the best."

Then just let it go. That's all you can do. Then move on with your life, focus on being happy, and leave the ball in her court. Back off, give her this space, and let her miss you (as a friend, not as a ploy to get her back romantically). If she comes around and contacts you, great. If not, there's your answer. She simply can't maintain a friendship for some reason, and you have to respect her wishes. You can take comfort in the fact that you were open to it, and did let her know you wanted to remain friends, but that you won't force that on anyone. You can tell yourself, "Hey, at least I tried, but she wasn't open to it. I will respect her boundaries now and let her go."

Are you sure that you don't want this friendship as a means to get her back though? Are you OK with being friends and hearing details about the new men she dates? Can you discuss this type of thing with her without jealousy, anger, hurt, and disappointment? Truly think about all of this before you try to do the friends thing. If the friendship you seek keeps you from moving on, the price may be too high.

No, of course you don't need to act as if she doesn't exist, but friendships with exes can be a difficult thing and isn't possible in all cases. Don't take it so personally. At this point, all you can do is be open if she contacts you, but don't wait around. Date others and move on.

LBP, I think chuff is right on! It is time to let go.

Ditto for southernbell. It is hard letting go. And rejection really hurts. But it is important to date others and move on. And try to find happiness, again.

Good grief. I can’t believe two things.

1. There’s a limit to the number of words I can use.
2. That for two days in a row, I’ve gone past that limit.


Part 1 of 2


Hopefully I’m not wrong on this but for the first time I feel like your starting to get what I’m saying. It sometimes takes a few attempts but your starting to come around. Since you keep coming back I know your at least thinking which is a great sign. Some people just leave thinking were all idiots and then return a month later wondering why nothing changed.

I remember a few months ago we all told some guy that had just been dumped 6 or 7 weeks prior to that to get calling his ex as he was doing up to 5 times a day and couldn’t figure out why she was avoiding him. Anyway he went to a party she was at after being told not too and then came back here after she told him “don’t speak to me anymore” and he still could figure out why. He just didn’t get it.

I think your at least starting to see here that something's not right with your situation and your behaviors. That’s a positive sign. Your also hard headed, a personality trait that hits close to home I must say, so it becomes hard for you to change, or allow yourself to change. Sometimes the hang up is admitting to yourself your wrong. Sometime the hang up is just giving yourself permission to change.


This is the best of what I've heard so far... I'm okay with disrespect! Respect is overrated. I've got a thick skin! I'm willing to accept blame!

Well a couple things. I don’t want you to be disrespected. You shouldn’t want to be disrespected or allow it for that matter. That being said, when I mentioned that in my last post I was trying to convey to you that every time some one criticizes you I felt as though your were deflecting it off and throwing it right back to the person pointing out. I sense you were not happy with what you were hearing and took it as disrespect.

Never and I mean never allow a woman to disrespect you. It’s a sign of weakness and if you do it enough the woman will eventually grow tired and leave you. A woman wants a man, not a wuss. That being said, it doesn’t give you permission to walk all over her and be a complete that starts verbally and physically abusing her. Not saying you ever did by the way.



You were right when you said that this is the first time someone has told me they love me. I won't deny it.

Yeah I could tell. And again I could tell not from knowing you personally but just by studying how human beings behave. If you sort of step back and just watch the most basic human interactions, no matter the race, culture, country, when you step back and just see how people interact and treat one another as humans, and as how humans act, and as how humans treat themselves there are patterns that develop.


I also accept that I'm needy and was needy with her in particular - this is something I've admitted to her, in fact, in trying to make amends.

Well I’m glad that you can admit that to yourself. That’s the first step in changing that behavior. In the future though, you never point that out to a woman. It’s a sign of weakness. Women hate weak guys. It repels them. That being said, by the time the next one comes along maybe you will have worked on yourself and won’t be needy.


I'm not upset with any of you. I wish I could convey the tone of my voice through words, but it's just not possible. I appreciate anything and everything I've heard so far. In speaking to friends, I routinely point out to them that I was likely the during this whole thing and to not assume that I'm the good guy or that the best thing is to treat me like the abused party. One thing I've learned is that, no matter what (as you've just said), your friends will tell you that you've done the right thing and that you're a good person. This is tiresome advice - I'm glad to get a change from that in this place.
Friends mean well but they have an emotional connection to you as well so they don’t’ want to hurt your feelings. They tell you what you want to hear. What you NEED to hear is always what you want to hear.

You know talking about how humans behave, sit back and watch some time someone that has a problem.
I’ll give you a personal example. I worked with a beautiful girl who got completely fixated on another guy that we work with. Prior to this I might add she was in at least one abusive relationship. Her friends and her brother told her time and again to get involved with this guy we work with. She ignored everybody, got involved and wound up getting pregnant. He told her to get rid of it and for about a month all she did was complain to everyone about what an a**hole he was. And he was by the way a real big one. But the problem with that was that everybody told her in advance and she ignored. Then when she was pregnant they all told her he was an a**hole and it wasn’t her fault. Do you see what’s going on here. She was used, no question. But everybody around her, including her own brother are treating her as though she’s the innocent victim, but she was warned time and again not to get involved with him.

So anyway one night she starts her whining to me about him and I just said, “Well this is all your own fault, you got involved with a guy that has a history of treating people like this, and you knew it going in. I don’t blame him at all.” She just stared at me for a minute or so then walked away. On the surface that makes me look like an incredible prick I will admit to you but to you really see what I did. She wanted me to coddle her emotionally like everyone else does. That’s not help. I was the first person to stop and interrupt her pattern of behavior where by she thought she could whine and I would listen and reaffirm to her that she wasn’t wrong.

She came back to me the next day or a couple of days later and we talked about this a little more and I said to her, “I think your willing to risk your own health for all the attention you get that comes with these problems.” Again it helped that I knew her brother so I knew some of this going into this conversation. She said, that I was wrong and so I said, “Well you went out with a guy that abused you for years. What did you do every time he hit you or called you names.” Her answer, “I went to my parents.” You know what happened there don’t you. They told her it wasn’t her fault and gave her lots of attention.

Human behavior leaves clues. Follow the patterns and you get the answers. Look at the species as a whole and not individuals and some traits and behaviors just become crystal clear. Friends and family think there doing right by telling you what you want to hear. Sometimes there wrong. Sometimes, someone has to be the bad guy to be the good guy.



That said, to be told that I could potentially stalk someone is just nuts. I mean... Really? That's so the opposite of who I am that I just don't know how to react.

While I think you have the potential. I’m going to be honest. And to be honest I think I hit on something that you might sort of be aware of but don’t want to accept. I understand it’s hard to look at our own faults sometimes. And you’ve never had these emotions. Your, as you say, confused. But you tell me. Reread that original post. You just don’t quit pursuing her. You don’t take the hints she gives you. What would you have done if she lived in the same city?


I've got rid of all her old stuff she left me, including pictures and what have you. I've lost the letter she left me when she flew out (one talking about how I changed her life, etc etc) and deleted all the sexy pictures she sent me after she'd been in HK for a month.

Yes get rid of all that. It’s only holding you back.

Part 2 of 2. I don't intend for them to be this long but once I start typing it just flows out of me.




I understand what you're saying about the whole fling thing and you're likely correct. I probably put a whole lot more into this than she did (though most of the things I mentioned in my original post were in fact direct quotes from her to me, about 'love of my life' and 'best sex ever' etc - it's quite possible she was lying when she said these things, but she did say them!).

Well, I’m glad your starting to see this. It was a fling, and did put more into than she did. Whether she meant those things I can’t say for sure. But if you were giving her a lot of gifts and paying for trips to NYC she may have told you anything you wanted to hear.


I'll say this, though - my ex is a person who habitually gets close to and then abandons others because she believes that her independence (and being able to travel the world, something most people cannot generally do, especially at our age) is the 100% most important thing in her life. She's had three long distance relationships with men and each of those three times she's ended up dumping them in less than three months, myself being the latest. She has had over 30 boy friends over the years and has dumped them all - it was such that when she started going out with me her dad, jokingly, told her 'oh, great, when you gonna get around to dumping him?' this is why I worry for her.

Sounds like she has a problem with commitment. But you can’t change another persons behavior. You have to either let them live there life. If they want change bad enough then they do it on there own. You can’t do it for them.


She has no frienship with any of the people she's parted from in her short life, virtually no friends from highschool, very few people she keeps in contact from in her childhood. I, on the other hand, am resolute in staying in touch with people I've met over the years, though highschool, elementary school and everything. This next week, as a matter of fact, I'm going off to visit with a friend I haven't seen in over five years and just yesterday visited a friend I haven't seen in almost two years.

Her not having friends isn’t your problem though. You can’t inherit her problems to make it better for her.


Despite everything, I'm okay with being one of the long list of men she's been with and moved on from. She was a good friend and I want her to remain so. You all appear to think that I sit around with my head in my hands plotting how I'm gonna get back into her heart. I'm not blind - it's obvious I won't! I'm not even going to be here when she gets back, though it's well within my power to do so!

I’m only going by what you wrote. That being said, don’t be around when she comes. That is what she is expecting. Show her your, your own man. Show her you aren’t needy. Show her you have things to do.



But my Dad, a guy who I do not generally respect, is a remarkable man in that every single ex girlfriend he has ever had he has ended up becoming a close and dear friend with (despite never getting involved with them romantically after the break up). I would like to emulate this trait, unusual (and apparently freakish) though it maybe. I suppose that restricts what I can accept from you guys (good advice though it may generally be), in that I'm more interested in doing what I can to perpetuate this possibility than anything else.

That’s all well and good but when she doesn’t want to be your friend cut you losses. Friendship is a two way street. If she doesn’t want your friendship that’s her problem. But you can’t continue worrying about it 3 months after you last spoke with her.


What it boils down to is what you've said above, chuffster. She's telling me to get out of her life. I just gotta accept that this is the best way to make her happy, confusing (notice what I mentioned in the title) as that is to me, since supposedly making her happy is what I've been interested in from the start, in a relationship sense. I won't pretend she doesn't exist because that seems ridiculous, but she won't be hearing from me any time soon and I will certainly be looking to move to my next step romantically as soon as the next opportunity presents itself. This has always been the case.

I want you to know that you owe it to yourself to make only you happy. Not her. If you believe anything I tell you please believe this as I went for YEARS trying to be the nice guy and always make the woman happy. That doesn’t work because you lose your own sense of self. You are seen in her eyes as weak because you do whatever she tells you to do at any given time. Women will sometimes test a guy just to see if he puts his foot down or has a spine. It’s a fine line between a test and complaining about a bad day so you have to be prepared and watch for it. Looking back I totally get that now, but I used to just lay down and let them walk all over me, “because if I’m nice they’ll like me more” was the thought I had running through my head. How wrong I was and how many times I got hurt because I was so hard headed that I didn’t ever wake up and realize something else was going on. You can and I do encourage you to be a good person to women but not nice to women if you get my point. The good guy will do something for the woman out of the goodness of his heart, but not at the expense of his heart. Big difference. Be the good guy, not he nice guy.

Hopefully I'm not wrong on this but for the first time I feel like your starting to get what I'm saying. It sometimes takes a few attempts but your starting to come around. Since you keep coming back I know your at least thinking which is a great sign. Some people just leave thinking were all idiots and then return a month later wondering why nothing changed.

Sometimes I think my biggest problem is that I think WAAAY too much.


I remember a few months ago we all told some guy that had just been dumped 6 or 7 weeks prior to that to get calling his ex as he was doing up to 5 times a day and couldn't figure out why she was avoiding him. Anyways he went to a party she was at after being told not too and then came back here after she told him “don't speak to me anymore” and he still could figure out why. He just didn't get it.

Now, this, I never did and I'd be a bit of a fool not recognize my own insanity were this the case. The reason I've mentioned that I think things would still be good were she still around is that we'd actually have a chance to work things out instead of chat about how she's having a marvelous time in Hong Kong and I'm having a not so marvelous time in the States, banter about nothing for a while and then have that be that for a week or more. However, reality is as reality does.


Well a couple things. I don't want you to be disrespected. You shouldn't want to be disrespected or allow it for that matter. That being said, when I mentioned that in my last post I was trying to convey to you that every time some one criticizes you I felt as though your were deflecting it off and throwing it right back to the person pointing out. I sense you were not happy with what you were hearing and took it as disrespect.

Now this is some truly excellent advice. Thank you much.


Well I'm glad that you can admit that to yourself. That's the first step in changing that behavior. In the future though, you never point that out to a woman. It's a sign of weakness. Women hate weak guys. It repels them. That being said, by the time the next one comes along maybe you will have worked on yourself and won't be needy.


I'll give you a personal example. I worked with a beautiful girl who got completely fixated on another guy that we work with. Prior to this I might add she was in at least one abusive relationship. Her friends and her brother told her time and again to get involved with this guy we work with. She ignored everybody, got involved and wound up getting pregnant. He told her to get rid of it and for about a month all she did was complain to everyone about what an a**hole he was. And he was by the way a real big one. But the problem with that was that everybody told her in advance and she ignored. Then when she was pregnant they all told her he was an a**hole and it wasn't her fault. Do you see what's going on here. She was used, no question. But everybody around her, including her own brother are treating her as though she's the innocent victim, but she was warned time and again not to get involved with him.

Women are very strange. Why do they all say that they want a sensitive man when that is actually never the case? Why so many tests?

Heh, your story matches a girl who was my first in college. She started going with me, but dumped me suddenly and unexpectedly for her old boyfriend. That didn't work out, so she started mooning after this other guy in our hall, a guy I knew pretty well and knew well enough to know that he would NEVER EVER treat here like anything other than a place for him to regularly find sex. I told her as much. She stopped talking to me, period. I was okay with that because she was kind of terrible. Sure enough, everything I predicted came to pass and here, three years later, she's been mutated into a pot head and abandoned for new sexual horizons, left to deal with her own misplaced feelings.


While I think you have the potential. I'm going to be honest. And to be honest I think I hit on something that you might sort of be aware of but don't want to accept. I understand it's hard to look at our own faults sometimes. And you've never had these emotions. Your, as you say, confused. But you tell me. Reread that original post. You just don't quit pursuing her. You don't take the hints she gives you. What would you have done if she lived in the same city?

Honestly, I think we'd be as good of friends as we've ever been. I can take no as an answer. That said, her best friend (other than me) is one of my best friends so we'd probably still hang out. And then things wouldn't be confusing because I could see what's going on instead of guessing. I mean, even though I can do it now I still don't call her every day. I don't call her at all. I haven't called her in months!


Well, I'm glad your starting to see this. It was a fling, and did put more into than she did. Whether she meant those things I can't say for sure. But if you were giving her a lot of gifts and paying for trips to NYC she may have told you anything you wanted to hear.

I didn't buy her that trip to NYC - she was all ready planning it before she met me and I happened to have enough to go along. It was a happy convenience. I mentioned her rabid devotion to independence - I only ever bought her one gift because it was such a chore getting her to accept them. Considering how damn wealthy she is, I'd be a fool to do much in terms of giving to her.

That said, the fling comment and also the comment where you said something to the effect of 'Why? She doesn't worry about you' are sobering and worthwhile statements. I'm sure they'll take their time to sink in, but I thank you for that and for all the time and effort you've put into respond to my question. Much appreciated.


I want you to know that you owe it to yourself to make only you happy. Not her. If you believe anything I tell you please believe this as I went for YEARS trying to be the nice guy and always make the woman happy. That doesn't work because you lose your own sense of self. You are seen in her eyes as weak because you do whatever she tells you to do at any given time. Women will sometimes test a guy just to see if he puts his foot down or has a spine. It's a fine line between a test and complaining about a bad day so you have to be prepared and watch for it. Looking back I totally get that now, but I used to just lay down and let them walk all over me, “because if I'm nice they'll like me more” was the thought I had running through my head. How wrong I was and how many times I got hurt because I was so hard headed that I didn't ever wake up and realize something else was going on. You can and I do encourage you to be a good person to women but not nice to women if you get my point. The good guy will do something for the woman out of the goodness of his heart, but not at the expense of his heart. Big difference. Be the good guy, not he nice guy.

It's a funny world, but I guess these are words to live by.

I think I should mention also that low self-esteem is not an insue or a lack of things to do... As I've mentioned, I have a lot of stuff going on in my life, particularly with school, my job and writing... My self-esteem is so high that I have to hold it in check sometimes for getting carried away with pride. This could be part of the problem also...

I mention these things only because they seem to appear often as topics in other threads.

So you are ready to move on to healthier things?

I guess. I mean, I've been doing a lot with my life, like I said. Mostly I was wondering if it's worth trying to put the effort into keeping her as a friend. The answer appears to be no - that's all up to her. Cool. I'm willing to accept that.

Well, you may have thought that things were perfect between you but obviously the feeling wasn't mutual. You need to move on and, as you say, get back into the mix. I know it's not easy but the sooner you can resign yourself to it the better off you'll be. There's evidently some anger and resentment on her part because of things that were said after she indicated that she wanted some space. In any case, you now need to forget about her and move on.

As an update: burned all the stuff (including phone numbers and what have you) I could find of hers, deleted her from all my internet whatevers, deleted all the whatnot that she could possibly be involved with on my computer, and gave her one final phone call to say have a nice life. So that's where it stands. It's about as finished as it can possibly be. Thanks to you all, I reckon. I still don't understand why people can't be friends after a break up, but I suppose that's just the way the world works.

There are some of us that are able to stay friends with our x's. It depends on the break up. And what can or can't be forgiven by each individual.

As some of you may remember, I came to this board looking for advice on dealing with an ex of mine. It wasn't that significant of a relationship, though both of us blew it up to that proportion (at least I did, and her friends tell me that she did, as did her words to me). We got along great and never had a moment's trouble while she was here.

When she moved away to study abroad, things changed dramatically. We talked once a week for a while, always with great conversations, but then she started to pull away and finally dumped me (after giving me many outs, as I've come to realize).

Months have passed since then and I no longer have romantic feelings for this girl. She treated me with such disrespect that I can't imagine dealing with her ever again in a relationship context without feeling great anxiety and I won't allow myself to get into that position.

Yet, for the time that we were together, she was a great friend to me and I know that people do not always act normally when under emotional stress. I've tried to reach out to her on several occations over a period of months (following NC) to say that while I've come to accept that the relationship is over, and that's positively for the best, I'd still like to keep the friendship. I've been ignored every time.

She once told me, through tears, that she regretted more than anything her inablity to keep friends for long periods - a recurring theme of her life. It's a moment that stuck in my head. I want to put the effort to be her friend because I know she'll need it one day. On the other hand, I'm pretty disgusted with her actions of late mostly because they strike me as entirely unwarranted. It's hard for me to maintain respect for her, but I feel a compulsion to have sympathy, not necessarily for my sake but for hers. She's going to come back here, one day, and I know that most of her old friends will have little to do with her as most of her friends were MY friends and will be that first and foremost, to her expense. I want to make this easy for her but she's making it very difficult for me to do so.

What should I do? I don't feel any turmoil over all this because her opinion of me has grown to mean very little, from my perspective. I have no problem with returning to the well again and again because I feel it's what could help her most. She does not seem to agree in the slightest and has in fact done her best to demonstrate otherwise (including alienating many of those other friends I've mentioned). I don't want to give up on her friendship because I don't want to conscribe her to a possible unhappy future, but she seems determined and I can't convince myself to continue on a seemingly hopeless task. Should I give up and say to hell with it? That strikes me as pretty wimpy. But what other option is there?

I suppose, upon reflection, I've answered my own question with a resounding no. To hell with it - it appears we can't be friend, so I'll leave it at that. I guess textual catharsis really works!

If she does not care to remain friends at all, then it is her own doing, really. Move her out of your life, that way there is room for someone or something else more worthwhile.

She is out of my life in a very real sense. I burned everything she gave me, deleted her cell number, and took her off my myspace and Facebook and what have you, the whole shebang. I won't be seeing her for years.

I just didn't see any point in wasting time to become friends, as I'm fairly certain she's moved on (though I do know she checks my blog pretty often, for whatever reason) and I know that I have. It doesn't work that way, though.

What doesn't work what way and why?

No - not worth it.

Moving on quickly. I sort of hate dillydallying and playing all this feigned disinterest BS. I know it's feigned because I know that she checks my blog pretty often, for whatever reason. She's a big believer in 'face' and I'm sure that has something to do with it though I can't say that her actions are particularly unique in what I've encountered during all my female experiences.

If you have a way of privatizing your blog, do it. If she doesn't want to be friends, she shouldn't have to peek into your life, she does not deserve it. My Myspace page is blocked to those who aren't my friends, I suggest doing the same. And you are right, it is BS!

There's no right answer for whether it's worth it to be friends with an ex. Two of my closest friends are women I was involved with, while at the same time there are a couple that I'm more than content in knowing that I'll probably never see or speak to them again.

There are three things to remember when deciding this:
1) Is it healthy to stay friends? A bad breakup or lingering feelings will make it rough on one or both of you. Better to avoid that sort of thing if you can.
2) Are the two of you friend material? Even without bad feelings or anything like that, relationships change, people change, and sometimes people just don't make good friends.
3) Is the friendship going to be work? A friendship should be natural, and shouldn't require any effort most of the time (the day-to-day care and such aren't effort... they come naturally), and when it does take effort, you know without having to wonder that the effort is worth it.

You've pretty much decided that it's not worth trying here, and from your description, I'd have to agree with you... it doesn't sound like this would be a natural friendship, and there seem to be some lingering issues on both sides that could cause issues.

Stand by your decision, and don't second guess yourself. Don't worry yourself over what she is or might be doing, and just close the door on the part she played in your life.

"She once told me, through tears, that she regretted more than anything her inablity to keep friends for long periods of time - a recurring theme of her life."

Huge red flag in my book.

I have friends from grade school, high school, college. Great friends!

Why are you tripping about making friends with an ex? You really need something else to focus on.

I don't know why it all fell on top of me again, but it's just hitting me again and again as to why it is my ex just has no regard for how I might be feeling... It's so crippling that she could have cared about me once and now just could give a good god damn whether I'm even alive. If I were to die tomorrow, it feels like she'd be happier because she'd have a burden off her shoulders... I'm not contemplating anything drastic, worry not, I'm just expressing how things feel...

I haven't spoken to her in a while and I don't intend to do so but damn... It's just so hard, you know? She'll never reach out to me again. I don't need to know that she loves me. I'm sure she doesn't. I just wish she cared a little bit, maybe worried that I was well. But I know she doesn't even think of me. She doesn't even want me to exist.

Why did she do it? Why did she tell me all those things she told me only to turn it back down my throat as soon as she could, for nothing more than what... Sex with random guys? The ability to flirt without having to feel bad? Was I really so terrible? I feel like the only thing I ever did wrong was not be happy about being dumped... And this is worthy of hatred?

I know I shouldn't worry so much about someone who has treated me so badly but I just think back on her and its like wooden log has dropped on my head...

I try to turn her into a bad person to make this easier for me but I know she's not... I feel like I have to in order to make all this manageable. I wish we could be friends more than anything. It seems so wrong that this all should go into the trash heap over what amounts to maybe some ill chosen words and hurt feelings...

I'm just getting it off my chest suppose, as things feel so heavy all of a sudden... It just feels like the reality of having no relationship with her whatsoever, no friends no nothing, is starting to sink in... Feels like the months of happiness just weren't worth losing my friend over...

If her not caring is hurting you so bad, imagine what you not caring would do to you. Nobody can be in a long term relationship and just jump out of it and forget about the person. Think of all your exes, you still wonder on some level how they're doing. She's not going to crack, and you shouldn't either. Women are usually more sensitive to this type of thing, and it tends to show when they break up, how they immediately switch to party time mode. She's not even beginning to feel the loss yet. The day will come when all the parties dry up and the random hook ups get old, and then it'll start to sink in. Right now you're paying for it first, but trust me, she will be, just not anytime soon.

You're James Dean right now. The best revenge is living well. Imagine when the day comes that she comes back and you're a rocket scientist astronaut millionare cowboy that turned down carmen electra because you didn't like her taste in music. You need to prepare for the day she tries to get back into your life, because it always happens in some capacity.

The good news is You did the right thing to rant here where you can get support and a lot of understanding. Actually it was a great step by you instead of doing something dumb. We all feel your pain. The bad news is you'll have these feelings again. But you know where you can rant and we are here 24/7. Nice rant, by the way, you should feel a little better so hit the gym.

Hi LBP,

What a great thing you did here today. Not only did you come here to get it off your chest, but do you know how many people just today that you helped? That feel the same things you are feeling and wonder why? What's wrong with them? By sharing what you were feeling here, you helped others see they are not alone.

These days will come, and it is so very normal. Days like this, help you to really enjoy those days when your heart is a whole lot lighter, and those days are coming.

Getting through a day like today, gives you great strength. Hang in there and remember, you are never alone.

I understand where you are coming from and a whole lot of people do as well!

Looks like your getting some pretty good advice so I'll just toss a little in there. Your suffering and pain following a breakup is none of your ex's business. If she was part of your life then it would be but since she is not, it's not. Therefore don't let her see you down and out, and hope that she doesn't call checking on you while you are still in the dumps. It won't make a good impression!

I'm going to agree with your advice copperhead, but as far as the comment goes, I'm going to say, in the short term. YES BUILD YOURSELF UP FOR THE SOLE AND EXPRESSED PURPOSE OF IMPRESSING HER. At least, when I was in your position (2 weeks ago) that's what I did. When the idea set in that it was never going to show itself to her, I didn't want to do anything but cry. The only motivating factor I had at this point, was her. After a while you begin to realize improvements are improvements. I lost 40 lbs for her. I lost 40 lbs. I lost 40 lbs and the girl across the hall asked me out. Long term motivation will set in, in the long term. For the short term, instead of crying about it or sleeping for 20 hours a day, do stuff that will impress her, and don't ever show it to her. What makes you a better person for her will make you a better person for another girl. In my position, the only thing that motivated me was getting back at her. Eventually I realized that the result is the same, regardless of who you do it for. And right now, it sounds like you need results, because those are what made me realize I was, in fact, better off without her.

So I say if impressing her is what motivates you, do that, but don't ever show it to her. Let her come looking for it. Eventually you'll become self motivated.

I suppose more than anything I want to know why - why does she think its more worth it to treat me like dirt than to treat me like a friend? Is it really that important to her? Is it worth what she's losing, not just with me, but with my friend and the people who had been close to both of us?

Apparently so.

Word to the wise! She is treating you like dirt because she wants some space from you. She may like you or not like you deep down but right now she needs time away. If you can back off for awhile, and you actually were a pretty damn good boyfriend, some time will put you in a better light. You might could even get her back, but you have got to play the cool customer and give her her space, its your only chance. And there are ways to make contact, probably between 3 weeks and 3 months that will give you a better chance. But you have to do it the right way or you have no chance at all. The best thing you can do is forget her for awhile. Her mind still works in your absence and time changes everything. Be a cool customer, not a pressuring one!

You just can't explain CONFUSION.

Hi LBP,

You are asking, why is she treating you like dirt. Why is that more important to her than treating you like a friend. LBP, you have got to get to the point where you ask an entirely different question:

Why are you still willing do give your heart, to a person, that thinks it is more important to treat you like dirt?

Keep asking yourself THAT question, and try and not put so much energy in to why she does anything. I know it is hard, but you have got to take better care of YOU.