I live in an old building (1950?), and recently there have been many pipe burst situation. I witnessed a neighbor who was a contract for the building said to management that pipe can break any time and is already in violation of city code. I noticed several incidents relating pipe burst, and sticky brown water leaking from top floor to 1st floor over night.

While I was out of town, there was alleged toilet leak, and "brown and odoferious liquid" leaked from my unit to downstair. They claimed unit downstair's drywall was substantially damaged, and painted toilet and hallway for unit downstair. Plumber stated that he replaced water pipe line and corkball, and installed valve.

My toilet is an old one, but home inspection last year did not find anything wrong with toilet plumbing fixture. Management is supposed to spring check up of plumbing leak, but they never have done that.

The question I have is do galvanized pipe and frequent pipe burst in the building have any relation to water pipe line leak?

Thanks


Also buildings have water radiant heating system on ceiling and floor.

recently there have been many pipe burst situation. I witnessed a neighbor who was a contract for the building said to management that pipe can break any time and is already in violation of city code. I noticed several incidents relating pipe burst, and sticky brown water leaking from top floor to 1st floor over night. your pipes are galvanized iron. They don't "burst" by themselves, ( did you mean to say that they "leaked instead of "buresting"?
What's the PSI coming into the building? Is there a PRV,(pressure reducing valve) installed?

The question I have is do galvanized pipe and frequent pipe burst in the building have any relation to water pipe line leak?

The only way pipes "burst" is from excessively high pressure, Without knowing what the pressure is in your building your question can't be answered. Sooo, how much water pressure IS entering your building? Back to you, Tom

Yes, It is galvanized iron.
As you can tell, I do not know about plumbing. Their email stated "heating pipe leak" "leak from pipe that burst" (this is not my toilet leak case). Again, water pipe on ceiling and floor are heating system.

Since plumber said there was no one in my apartment when he got there, I am thing two possibilities.

1. downstair unit supposedly called police for "brown, odorferious leak" from upstair (my unit). I know when there was "heating pipe leak" brown water was dripping before. Nothing to do my toilet and brown water.


2. I think someone on discussion board said water pipe can break (?) if galvanized pipe was used (?). Maybe actual toilet leak due to galvanized pipe?


Some background info-plumber said he came after everybody left, and water was leaking from toilet. It does not make sense police/fire dept made forcible entry, and did not wait water to stop. He said there was no valve (but I do know we had valve for toilet). So it is possible there was something happen after fire dept/police left and before plumber came.

I am not asking you to speculate anything. I am just asking whether galvanized iron, pipe burst leak, etc. have possible relation with toilet leak.

Thanks


I think inspection report said water pressure was 110 serviceable? Also plumber's invoice which I received today said leak was due to ball cock.

110 is too high. You need to get that reduced with a PRV.

That leak would mostly go down the drain, although some could exit the tank lid.

Only differences between the water supplies is one is clear and the other is brown and the location of the leaks.

The high water pressure caused the toilet valve to go bad.

Pipes bursting usually doesn't happen, but could if it occurred at the threaded joints.
You have high pressure which could increase those odds.

""The high water pressure caused the toilet valve to go bad."" so water pressure from toilet pipe cause ball cock to get bad?

What part is exactly ball cock? Does ball cock gets bad by just sitting there (not used because we were not at home)?

Thanks

The ball cock is the float mechanism that turns the water on and off to refill the tank after you flush. In order for a defective ball cock to cause flooding the over flow pipe, that pipe sticking up in the middle of the tank, would have to be higher than the hole which the flush handle fits through.

Sounds like no one told the plumber why he was there so he just found something to fix.


leak was due to ball cockDoes not necessarily mean that a toilet or tank is over flowing and causing a flooding situation.

Can you please explain to me.

Plumber said water was leaking due to ball cock. Again I was on vacation for weeks when that alledgely happened.

Ball cock does not get bad itself when it is not used ? If there was leak, it is not due to ball cock?

Thanks

""The high water pressure caused the toilet valve to go bad."" so water pressure from toilet pipe cause ball cock to get bad?

what part is exactly ball cock? does ball cock gets bad by just sitting there (not used because we were not at home)?

thanks
Let me take your questions one at a time;
1) *** Kiss pointed out at 110 the PSI is way high , and yes, excessively high pressure pouts a strain on pipes, joints and valves\In my earlier post I asked about high pressure. The only other thing that will burst a pipe is if they freeze.
So now they're blaming the angle stop? Any proof to back that up?
2) Harold did such a good job of describing a ballcock I can only put up a image to show you and NO! High pressure won' cause a ballcock to overflow and flood you out. Notice the white overflow tube that's there to prevent that from happening. Cheers, Tom

In older style toilets there is a big ball that's a float that sits on the top of the water. It activates a valve.

USUALLY when this valve is defective, the "toilet runs". e.g. The water fills the tank and leaves through the tube in middle of the tank to the bowl.

Another way for the toilet to "run" is for the flapper to have a leak and water enters the bowl.

Newer style toilet valves have a float that linearly slides up and down and opens and closes the toilet valve.

All of these leaks are internal, which means no water would leak outside of the plumbing system.

What CAN happen though is the valve could break due to corrosion or whatever which would cause spraying of water inside the tank. That spray can end up on the floor.

If it had a real ball cock, it could develop a hole. This would cause the water to continue to run, but again it should be contained.

Only if the valve was defective to the point that it sprayed inside the tank should you have external flooding. Safeties are essentially built in.

Fluidmaster now makes a toilet valve that if the flapper spring a leak, it would empty the tank and shut off the incoming water flow.

High house water water pressure would cause fixture valves such as single cartridge valves and toilet valves to fail prematurely. Normal water pressure is around 45-55 PSI. Your's is essentially double.

Here is a demonstration of a modern system: HowStuffWorks "How Toilets Work" (http://home.howstuffworks.com/toilet4.htm)

A "ball cock" basically refers to a large hollow Ball (float) attached to a rod that operates a valve.

Another issue is that attaching dissimilar metals together such as iron and copper along with an electrolyte (non pure water) creates a small battery. This causes corrosion to occur usually at that joint.

Galvanized pipe may also break away small portions of rust that could clog valves and make them unable to shut off.

The only thing that could cause flooding would be a defective valve that "sprayed" inside the tank. Yep, there are other causes, but they have been ruled out (cracked tank, band tank seal).

Thanks very much. It is technical which I want to know details. What is spraying water inside tank?

Since no one was using toilet for weeks (not home), spraying water inside should not happen suddenly?

See Tom's pic where it's labeled "fill valve". If it breaks at exactly that spot water CAN be released upward or say upward at a 30 degree angle.

This is where I disagree with Tom:


NO! High pressure won' cause a ballcock to overflow and flood you out. Notice the white overflow tube that's there to prevent that from happening.

I do agree that the probability of a defective fill valve to cause overflooding is small, but I won't go as far as saying never.

Water will then end up on the floor because it gets to the tank rim.

On many valves you can usually remove the top of the fill valve to flush out debris.

Again, I'm assuming no external leaks (supply tube).

Plumber said he submitted "report" to management, and some body else does prepare "invoice". Management sent me "invoice" yesterday with typed writing:

"toilet leaking
this leak came from the ball cock- no shut off valve under toilet. installed new shut off valve on waterline for toilet. new water supply tube & new ballcock" $250

Several questions:
1. I remember we used shut off valve previously, it is weird. Also plumber said water was running when he got there and there was no fire/police. Do you know whether fire dept/police just leave without shutting off water after they make forcible entry?


2. Invoice stated installed new ball cock. But I there is no ball cock any more in my toilet tank. Again, it should be internal even even if leak came from ball cock?

""If it had a real ball cock, it could develop a hole. This would cause the water to continue to run, but again it should be contained.""

Well, you certainly should know whether a stop valve previously existed and you should also be able to tell, just looking at it, if a new stop valve, supply tube and ball cock has been installed. You should also be able to recognize if your bathroom suffered any water damage. I repeat a "leaking ballcock" does not mean an over flowing toilet.


Also plumber said water was running when he got there and there was no fire/police.

That statement does not necessarily mean that the toilet was over flowing. Just means that water was running.

If you suffer no water damage in your bathroom I don't see how your toilet could have cause damage to the property below.

I assume that this is condominium property. I would deny all claims. I certainly wouldn't know about where you live but Virginia condominium law requires a procedure of "due process" before assessment can be levied.

Who knows what police would do? Suggest you get a police report, try to talk of responding officer. Find out who from association accompanied police during entry. Demand a copy of the "report" submitted by plumber to association.

Is you apartment on top floor?

Here's the two ballcocks KISS is referring to, (see image) It's doubtful the water's spraying in the tank and running down the outside. To check simply remove the lid and flush.
I would want a better explanation then, "the toilet leaked". I'd want to know where and how, with all the details before In accepted any responsibility. Is it the ballcock? Doubtful in my book! Did excessive pressure rupture the angle stop? Prove it to me! Could the water have come from another source? Yes It could!
Could it have leaked down a plumbing chase from a unit above? YHas any one checked then AC condensate line to be sure the line isn't clogged and leaking on the floor? I would want some concrete evidence pointing directly at the source. How about you?
Good luck, Tom

HKSTRAUD: "you certainly should know whether or not a stop valve previously existed and you should also be able to tell, just looking at it, if a new stop valve, supply tube and ball cock has been installed." - response: There was home inspection with no problem found in toilet plumbing, and we used valve previously. Again, all this alleged toilet leak happened while I was out of town for months. Strangely, all crew (fire dept/police/janitor/management firm broke in, but did not stop leaking water (per plumber when he came no one was there and toilet was leaking from ball cock). Can you tell me how you know whether stop valve was there by looking at it?

Again, when I came back there was no hint of "brown water" leaking.e.g rug in the bathroom, grout all clean.

"Virginia condominium law requires a procedure of "due process" before assessment can be levied."
Could you kindly send some info? That will be great start for me to research further.

Thanks

speedball1:

"Is it the ballcock? Doubtful in my book! "" can you kindly state what your book state.

this is what plumber invoice stated:
"toilet leaking
This leak came from the ball cock- no shut off valve under toilet. Installed new shut off valve on waterline for toilet. New water supply tube & new ballcock" $250

I am not in a position to just say "prove it, I am not paying". They have too much control over me in charging expenses.

Again, there is no a/c issue here.

Thanks

Speed ball 1
Thanks for diagrams. It appears plumber removed #1 ball (picture on the right), replace #2 and valve. #7, 6, 12 are all the same as before.

Which one is exactly "ball cock"?