My wife said she doesn't love me anymore because she doesn't want to get hurt anymore. Her years of pent-up resentment finally came out after I called her a for complaining so much. Arguments and shortcomings that I had long forgotten have now been thrown in my face. She won't let me touch her anymore and wants me to go away. She refuses to go to counselling and now spends her days watching baseball. Her mom died 6 years ago and she didn't go to conselling then either. I've started going to a therpaist on my own. I want to make the marriage work and move forward, but she does not seem willing to even try.

If she is not willing to try, and you have shown every attempt to fix things, then you cannot live your life in someone else's depression. You can help her, but I wouldn't stay with her at least for now.

From her standpoint, why should she try to make the marriage work now? How many times in the past did she attempt to make it work or say something about it not working only to be called a name that the censor program took out of your post for 'complaining' so much?

When did you start therapy? Are you willing to give her a chance to see that you are willing to change? If she has years of resentment/frustration/anger built up, it may take a long time before she is willing to trust that things can get better.

I had never used that word before and have apologized profusely since then. I guess I had my own pent-up resentment as I have tried to make a very comfortable life for her, and yet, she says she has been for unhappy years.

I started therapy recently and understand that healing will take time. I was advised to stopping giving reasons for staying together and letting go of the past as she is not listening to reason. I tend to give preference to logic over emotions, which is making this situation that much more difficult.

Most women work on their emotions,if your working from logic there's no communication,your not hearing each other.

Try and work through YOUR feelings.

Write her a letter,pour your heart and soul into it,do not use logic,use heart.

Give it to her,and give her time to process it.

Try and see her point of view without imposing your thoughts into the letter.

Don't say what you think she should do,that's logic.

You may need to stop and start a few times before you get it just right.

Have a heart to heart not a head to heart.

I now realize I cannot control her, I can only control myself. A friend of mine, who divorced but later got back together with his ex-wife, advised me to let my wife do what she will and to take care of myself. I suppose a letter written as an expression of my feelings, rather than my thoughts, would be helpful for me, and hopefully insightful for my wife.

I don't know the time line that all this has happened, but I would back away a bit, and just rebuild the communications more. From what I gather, she is upset at a lot of things you do/did, and it came to a head when you called her a name.

If you look at your part of it, and can see that maybe you could have done things differently, then maybe you see a better pathway to talk, and listen. No telling what is at the root of her frustration.

If not, a time to let the emotional dust settle would be what I would do, and then right the letter, once you get your head right.

Part of the reason I want to move forward now is that she is becoming more emotionally distant, not letting me even hug her or give her goodbye kiss. It is hurting me more every day. Fortunately, we are still talking. I try not to get defensive about shortcomings she brings up from years ago. The big one was not being with her when her mom died 6 years ago, since I could not take extended time off work to go out of state to be with her. I was there for the funeral.

Stop trying to hug, and kiss her, and talk more. My point is when looking for solutions, be very careful of trying to push for your own motives. I know its frustrating not being able to hug or kiss without being met with rejection, but being a listener may be the better course of action.

Plus what you may be missing is not acknowledging her mothers death, even after 6 years, as the anniversary date rolls around. Could that have a bearing on this? You may not understand her feelings, because you see them through your own feelings, and that may stop empathy, or understanding.

That's been my experience, as sometimes we are to hurt, or distracted by other things, and neglect to pay attention to what out partner is actually saying to us, or what we should do about it. We hear the words, but miss the meaning, or assume and presume the solution, but miss by a mile.

Sometimes it's a mistake to move things of such a delicate nature as the interaction between husband, and wife at JUST your pace, out of YOUR hurt, and YOUR frustration.

You may be wrongly assuming her true frustration, and giving in to YOUR own.

I was not that close to my wife's mother, so I could not mourn her death the way my wife did. I worry that she has unresolved issues with her, and maybe that is why she does not want to go to counseling. We do talk, and she crys a lot when we discuss the past hurts. She has internalized so much, and I tell her the only way to heal is to let it go. I don't understand why she can't/won't.

Stop telling her to just let go. Let her do it her way, and in her own time, NOT yours, since you obviously cannot feel her pain, because you have none.

Your job is to just be there while she goes through it without advice, as well intentioned as it may be.

Dismissing some ones suffering because you are NOT, is disgusting, and a blow to a bond that requires UNCONDITIONAL support.

I guess I'll just let her work on her issues at her pace and take care of myself. She doesn't know what she wants to do, but I understand she has to come up with her own solution. We are still amicable and the kids are cared for. I would rather wait it out than give up.

As a guy who knows, that's a great idea. There is no shame in having patience with a partner who needs some time to figure things out.

It's so frustrating seeing her just pout and brood over injuries from years ago. She still cries when we talk about them. It's such a waste of time. We could be moving our relationship forward; instead, we are stuck in the past. At least she has noticed some changes in me (more empathetic), but she thinks they aren't sincere or sustainable.

It's so frustrating seeing her just pout and brood over injuries from years ago. She still cries when we talk about them. It's such a waste of time. We could be moving our relationship forward; instead, we are stuck in the past. At least she has noticed some changes in me (more empathetic), but she thinks they aren't sincere or sustainable.

As long as you have the attitude that dealing with the past is a waste of time, she may be correct that the changes aren't sincere or sustainable.

Tears are a sign of very deep emotions in this case hurt and frustration. Her feelings are something she has to work through and deal with just as you have to learn to be more empathetic to her feelings. It is hard work that takes time.

If you want a strong relationship, you are going to have to mend the foundation. Just putting a patch over the cracks isn't going to hold up for long. What she may see is you putting a band-aid on a crack and calling it 'fixed'. Filling in the crack properly and finishing it off the correct way will stand up to a lot more strain than covering the foundation with a carpet can.

If she won't go to marriage counseling, perhaps she would consider seeing someone on her own. Someone she feels she can talk to and get her frustrations out. Perhaps learning new ways to deal with her emotions and memories.

Once you realize its about her, and what she needs emotionally, and not about you, and what you want, then maybe you can wrap your head around how your unsympathetic, non support, stops the relationship from moving forward in a positive way.

Once you get that, then you will focus on her needs emotionally, so you CAN move forward.

The time you give NOW, is focusing on the health of the relationship. She is not the robot you are. And she is hurting. We are not talking about your ideas of solutions here at all, so keep your mouth shut, and an arm around her, as she vents the poison from her system. Holding her, will go farther than schooling her. Ears open, mouth closed for you.

Strong silent support is what she needs, and you being there for her emotional needs.

Perhaps she wouldn't cry so much if she initiated our long talks, but she doesn't. If I didn't start the conversations then I wouldn't know about all these past issues. She would still be quiet and resentful. It seems I have to bring up these painful issues, much like having to bring up finances with her (an area where she insists I treat her like s**t).

You're all over the place. One post you seem to understand that she has to deal with things at her own pace while in another you say that you have to initiate the long conversations because she isn't. Opposite ends of the spectrum. You need to find the middle where you are OPEN to her talking and sharing how she feels and has felt.

How is counseling going?

I will let you know this: I have been with my husband for over 25 years. There are things that happened before we met that I am just now understanding how I feel about them and how to deal with those feelings. Those things trigger extremely strong emotions that can cause me to cry at the drop of a hat. Add into it daily stress and the changes that growing older bring and I can be an emotional wreck at times. He isn't nearly as emotional as I am. However, he holds me and lets me cry for as long as I need to. He doesn't make me feel like I am bothering him or making him wish he were anywhere other than holding me in his arms. He helps me feel safe and not vulnerable.

I have noticed a lot of I's and Me's in your post. You're upset because she doesn't pay attention to you. Maybe she's tired.

She says she wants to run away and that she was at such peace when the kids and I were on vacation. That is not a long-term solution while the kids are still kids. She says she wants to end the marriage. Since I am Catholic, so I won't give up that easily. She used to go to Mass but has stopped. So, there is probably a spiritual component to all of this, which she will have to resolve in her own unique way.

She says she wants to run away and that she was at such peace when the kids and I were on vacation. That is not a long-term solution while the kids are still kids. She says she wants to end the marriage. Since I am Catholic, so I won't give up that easily. She used to go to Mass but has stopped. So, there is probably a spiritual component to all of this, which she will have to resolve in her own unique way.

You may not have a choice if she wants a divorce. She's unhappy. You say you won't give up that easily? You say there may be a spiritual component? I think she lost her her mother, she's never fully accepted and a husband in her face constantly questioning and critiquing her actions, she hasn't had time to grieve.

She needs to be away from you awhile, to get her thoughts together and find out if there is anything to save. Losing a parent takes a person a long time to heal.

Maybe you need to take the kids more often, so she can find her own peace, even only for a few hours every week. That worked for me back in the day. We all need a break sometimes, especially when we get overwhelmed by events in our life. Have some empathy, dude!

I've taken the kids the movies/zoo/arcade/science centers/skiing for years to give my wife a break. I also did not pick up golf or other time consuming hobbies to be at home to help out. I've done plenty of laundry and taken the kids out to eat when she did not feel well. I feel that all that was a waste, that my efforts weren't appreciated (yes, I know how ironic this sounds).

Counseling is helping me to express my feelings. So, instead of saying "you should" I say "I would like if" and "what do you think". My therapist said that logic won't work with my wife right now. Trouble is, if I express feeling, all that comes out is pain. I told my wife that all the times I've hurt her was because I was hurt and scared, scared of losing her to one of her new "friends" I did ask her if she loved one of them (I had gone to Mass right before and was very peaceful during the discussion). She said no, but she has no idea what an emotional affair is. She says she just likes spending time with these guys. She lights up so when she talks about them. She doesn't smile with me.

I think she just wants out. No amount of talking or begging is going to change her mind.

Does she take any kind of medication for depression?

She absolutely refuses to take any meds and she refuses to seek counseling. I suspect she is afraid of being told that she is wrong, or that something is wrong with her. Right now she is watching a baseball game. I don't think she is thinking about her future, just trying to forget her problems.

She absolutely refuses to take any meds and she refuses to seek counseling. I suspect she is afraid of being told that she is wrong, or that something is wrong with her. Right now she is watching a baseball game. I don't think she is thinking about her future, just trying to forget her problems.




Try to get her to see a doctor.

I told my wife that all the times I've hurt her was because I was hurt and scared, scared of losing her to one of her new "friends" I did ask her if she loved one of them (I had gone to Mass right before and was very peaceful during the discussion). She said no, but she has no idea what an emotional affair is. She says she just likes spending time with these guys. She lights up so when she talks about them. She doesn't smile with me.

Unless I missed something this is the first time you mention 'new friends'. Are you now accusing her of being unfaithful?

Does she have any interests outside of the house and child-related (school and such)? Do you?

How old are your children and how many of them are there?

Unless I missed something this is the first time you mention 'new friends'. Are you now accusing her of being unfaithful?

Does she have any interests outside of the house and child-related (school and such)? Do you?

How old are your children and how many of them are there?

I thought you were referring to female friends. Does she go out with these friends.

She has new male friends at these baseball games she went to while the kids were in school. She talks about their insight about the game and lights up. I may have over-reacted, but it would make sense that she doesn't want me touching her if she has feelings for one of these guys.

My son is 13 and my daughter is 11. She feels that mom has been ignoring her this summer. My son likes to go to games with her, so it's good he can keep an eye on her.

Most of her friends are moms at the kids schools. Her good friend for the past 25 years has been very helpful to me, helping me understand some of my wife's issues.

She has new male friends at these baseball games she went to while the kids were in school. She talks about their insight about the game and lights up. I may have over-reacted, but it would make sense that she doesn't want me touching her if she has feelings for one of these guys.

My son is 13 and my daughter is 11. She feels that mom has been ignoring her this summer. My son likes to go to games with her, so it's good he can keep an eye on her.

Most of her friends are moms at the kids schools. Her good friend for the past 25 years has been very helpful to me, helping me understand some of my wife's issues.

So you can be friends with her pals, but you feel there is something wrong with her talking to male friends?

First the daughter, does your wife know how the daughter feels? Has the daughter been available to spend time with her mother? It is not to say the daughter doesn't have valid feelings. Only that sometimes things aren't exactly as they appear.

Your son should not be 'keeping an eye' on his mother or feel the need to. He is not her parent or her spouse or your spy. He is a child who should feel like he is sharing something with his mother that they both enjoy.

Is she lighting up because of the people or because she can share her interests with them? Does she light up just talking about baseball? Can you talk about baseball with her with the same level of enjoyment?

Is baseball her only interest outside the house (not counting school related)? Do you have any interests outside the house and work?

Do you have any interests in common?

Baseball has become more of an obsession for my wife over the past few years, starting shortly after her mom's death. I shared her interest until this season, when she started going to games with her "friends". I don't engage in activities with her female friends if she is not with us. She has helped around the kids' schools but has not said if she would this year. In fact, she told me and the kids that she did not plan to decorate the house for Christmas this year. She seems to have transferred her affection from me to her new "friends". Her sister and her good friend met one of them, and they thought she paid a little too much attention to him. I guess I didn't want to consider the option, but everything would make sense if she is having an emotional affair.

I never picked up any time consuming hobbies so that I could spend more time with my family. I do have a telescope and I have a library of courses from the Teaching Company in the fields of history, philosophy and religion.

Perhaps my daughter feels ignored because of my wife's baseball focus, whereas my son enjoys it.

Thanks for the added details, they help paint a picture of glitches in the marriage, that I think we all go through, and it takes a while to deal with. Nothing is ever accomplished overnight, or in one conversation, as most adjustments take time.

Kids growing up changes circumstances, and situations, and sometimes parents don't agree as what to do in some circumstances, so I am unsure if the info from your in-laws, or her friends have anything to do with your thinking, whether insecurity is involved, or frustration over not being able to readily fix things has influenced feelings, and thinking.

No matter the obstacles, keep working toward the common goal of a happy home, and don't let isolated incidences totally cloud your judgment, or impulsive thoughts dictate your actions, as the journey through life with a partner is seldom a smooth one.

After 35 years with my wife, its hardly been a cakewalk, but as long as you don't get carried away, and can communicate, sooner or later, you will overcome any obstacle, and solve your problems over time.

Patience and empathy, would serve you well.

Maybe I'm feeling too much and not thinking enough. Maybe she's really is just friends with these guys. But when I asked her if she loved one of them, why didn't she say "of course not, I love you, how could you think that?" Yes, I'm very insecure about our relationship right now. I like to plan things well in advanced, but I did tell my wife that I hadn't plan for any of what's going on now.

My therapist advised not talking about the relationship with my wife for now, especially since she continue to cry about past events. I guess we're housemates for the time being.

Yeah I have done the house mates thing a few times, separate vacations, gone fishing, and a few other things to let the dust settle, and clear the mind. Not a bad idea as sometimes doing nothing but what you should do for yourself is a good idea, and the best course of actions.

Just be a friendly happy house mate.

Today the issue of money came up. This has been constantly below the surface but flares up when the credit card statement comes. I suspect some of the times I have treated her "like s**t" was when the new charges were more than 1/3 of my take home pay. I gently asked for suggestions from her, but she just feels we should spend the money if we have it. I told her we need somebody to help us come up with a solution (can this be done in marriage counseling) but, again, she is not interested in talking to anybody about our problems.

Don't gently ask for solutions, gently present a way to live within your means, by doing your own homework in researching what you need. No reason for you to be following her lead down the path to dept and ruin. The same goes for any other problem you have, don't wait for her to have a solution. Be willing to find them on your own. Its called a budget, and learning how to manage the money you do have. A simple enough idea, have more coming in, than going out.

Wow, this started with you not being empathetic, and we have grown to many other areas of this marriage. She seems very emotional, with strong feelings, and you a lot less, but at the core of this whole mess is the inability to work together through honest communications. Maybe its time to stop the arguments, and work on a solid plan of action you both can deal with.

Next time she says "we have the money" say "SHOW ME!" My friend you have a lot to work on, and patience to sort it out, and find out where to start, is what's important, and talking and LISTENING is the first step.

I read the post and I really feel uneasy about the friends. She us sharing a recreational interest with (is it one man in particular) a man. You said you liked baseball until recently, do you two have any recreational interest in common at this point? If not, I would find something new to do together, even if it's a walk in the fresh air in the evening. You can talk and walk.
You said you are still talking, try to use every opportunity to do things with her just the two of you. You don't have to talk about the relationship but just talk and be with each other. I would rekindle an interest in baseball and go with her. If she is bonding with the guy you have to stop it.
The charge cards. I think for the sake of the mortgage you should take the charge cards away since is being irresponsable. Does she work? Could she get a part time job to pay down the debt? I think you have to get a hold of this spending stuff - I shop and spend when I am depressed she may be spending money for emotional reason. Kick that crutch away - if she does not have the charge card to salve her depression may she will solve her depression in more appropriate ways.

She really doesn't want to spend time alone with me. I've asked her to go out on dates, but she's refused. She also feels we can afford what she spend since we are still putting away money for the kids college and retirement (although I don't think it's enough). The mortgage was recently paid off by the sale of a business asset. I would like to save this additional money, but she wants to remodel the kitchen and fix the house. Honestly, I don't want to put too much money into the house if we are going to sell it in the next year or two. She could not afford to stay here if we divorced, even if she gets half of my salary in alimony, as the household bills would compromise maintaining her lifestyle.

So we are going at her pace. Any time we talk about the relationship is because she brings it up. I don't kiss her goodbye when I go to work or goodnight when we retire to our now respective bedrooms. I'm worried she will get used to this dysfunctional arrangement and not want to make any changes. All the bills are paid and I help with the kids when I can. Why should she want to change anything? The last time we talked about our relationship she blamed me for her not sleeping well.

One of you will get sick, and tired and make a decision, and then follow a plan of action.

Protect yourself, and your kids.

Her parents had a similar dysfunctional arrangement, sleeping in different bedrooms. I worry that she is modeling them, and that our kids will model us. But, I still worry about the effects of divorce on an 11 and 13 year old. They may end up modeling us with their own divorces someday.

Wonder which behavior is the worst, separate bedrooms, or divorce?

Sometimes couples sleep in different bedrooms because one of them snore. Doesn't mean they don't have an active love life.

I don't think I would want to, but who knows.

Last PM my wife sent a text saying she was going to dinner with one of her baseball friends. I called her, asked why she won't go to dinner with me but will with him, and said how hurt I felt. She screamed at me, saying how unhappy she's been for years because of how I've treated her, and she has no interest in making the marriage work. She refuses to talk to anybody about this. I'm concerned that she may have a mental condition, especially how she blames me for everything. If we divorce, then the kids will have to live with a mom with a mental condition.

A wife who doesn't like her husband is not mental, just mad. And I guess so are you right now.

Sorry guy, when a wife starts dating another, its time for some very proactive action. Think about it, because when there is no talking, or trying, and disrespectful behavior, its time to go, so again protect yourself, and your relationship with your kids, and put the rest in your back pocket, and leave.

You can't save a marriage when one partner wants out.

She's been unhappy for a long time.

Lets see if I have this right - Your wife is dating another man with whom she shares an interest in baseball, she does not have sex with you and does not want your touch, she has told you she is no longer interested in the marriage, she refuses to take responsibility for any of the problems in the marriage, she is dispectful to you, treats you and your concerns with contempt. Oh I forgot she wants to remodle the kitchen. Tucsondoc, you are divorced and your wife has started to date.
I can see that you are committed to making your marriage work and concern for your children is a big and ligitimate factor for staying together. If you decide to stay then you have to put up with the reality that your wife will continue to treat you with contempt and disrespect.
Although keeping an intact home is good for the kids seeing their Father treated like you are treated is not.
If you examine and accept the new realities of your life I think you will be able to cope better. First, you have to e plain to your wife that when one spouse exits the relationship, activities with repect to money change as well. There is no reason to invest in a kitchen redesign if she has exited the relationship is there. She is getting emotional support and maybe sex from someone other than yourself and I am certain if things go as they are now, you may seek the same. Her perception of reality is distorted but she does not seem crazy from what you say here she sounds very angry. I would sit down and really think about where you are, maybe consider this a separation and although you both stay in the house, everything else has to be negotiated to make it the lest emotionally painful for all especially the kids.

She's not in love with those guys, she is just infatuated with how kindly they treat her. She knows she can't be with them. She just thinks I should treat her special like they do. I told her I must have at one time as we did marry. She just focuses on how I've treated her recently. I admitted that I've not treated her the way she deserves to be treated out of resentment of her spending and her lack of appreciation of what she has. I expected her to be happy with a comfortable lifestyle and was frustrated that she wasn't, which is why I called her a b****. I told her that I now know how important it is to be kind to her, but again, she says it's too late. We married Catholic, but she no longer attends Mass. I asked if she still believed in forgiveness and reconciliation, but she is not ready for either.

I've accepted the new reality of a loveless (from her side), sexless marriage for the time being. Maybe I'm a martyr for staying for the kids sake, but I'll stop if I start blaming them instead of myself for staying.

My husband and I recently had a similar break after 20 years of marriage. One thing he said to me that I really took to heart was "I have no expectations" - meaning of me. He was waiting for me to vent, heal, come back around to him in my own time. One thing I read recently on the internet really spoke to how women sometimes get into these resentful situations, after years of putting up with little hurts and disappointments. Maybe it would be helpful for you to read and understand a little of what she might be going through. I realize you see the need for better communication and maybe counseling, as the article tries to convince "men", but the narration on how it got there might help you..
http://net-burst.net/marital/counseling.htm
Hope it helps. Give her space and lots of love.

I understand better with your latest post. Vmom1 has hit the nail on the head. Please follow her advice and good luck.

Thanks Vmom1, I'll read the link. I am seeing a therapist, and she told me not to move out. Since I still love her, I'm not willing to give up yet.

Vmom1, read the link, and it may be too late. I'm starting to see a therapist on my own, my wife absolutely refuses. She may be afraid of issues coming up from her childhood which she feels are too painful to remember, although she has spoken to me about them already. Her's was a home of conflict, which she vows not to repeat in our marriage. That may have contributed to her internalizing our conflicts. Even though she recounts our disagreements, it hasn't seem to lessen the pain. I just ask her not to put anything else in this "closet".

You said your husband has no expectations of you. Not even respect. This is something that is sorely missing in our relationship, especially since she want to go to New York again with her "friend" to watch another Yankees game. I've told her that no only does she not love me, she doesn't respect me. I know I have to earn that respect, but does she have to flaunt her disrespect for me.

That would be unacceptable!! When lines are crossed in this manner, communications, and respect are lost, time to back up, and get a whole new plan. I know it hurts going through this, and very hard to imagine the right things to do for yourself, But some of the things you have currently placed aside must be considered. Like separation, and talking to a lawyer. Knowing full rights, and legal options, are but a wise step in protecting yourself, as respect may be earned, but also be deserved too. It also shows that your tired of the games and uncertainty and will entertain your options when you have no respect from a partner.

Maybe seeing how her world would be without you is what she needs to get some reality, or be honest about her agenda, or motives with you. Regardless of the present situation being unsustainable for much longer, you should know you options and the consequences of her actions and that means you having a place to go that YOU can be comfortable at least, to find your peace of mind, and see what path you wish to walk, because she sure as heck ain't doing anything to resolve the issues you have.

I would make no bones to her about my displeasure at her actions. Nor would I hide the fact that I was willing, and able to change this whole dynamic around, and withdraw full support for all her actions.

If she can't talk about it, some one has to go, and soon, and we can sell this house, and get on with our own lives as individuals. You can't make someone work with you, but you can work in your own behalf without them, with much more than just therapy.

The flaunting is her saying how much she enjoyed New York, or telling me about a text comment from him regarding a particular baseball team. Isn't this being inconsiderate, knowing the problems we've going through?

You're the one allowing it, and for sure you will get more of it.

It sounds like you are both really hurting. Maybe she is doing things to hurt you because she felt hurt for a long time. We really can't give you advice here, not knowing both of your sides, and only seeing snippets of information you can give here. Your therapist is better off advising you on what you can do for yourself while you are waiting on or trying to work on things with your wife.

She may really still love you, but the feeling of not wanting to give someone more of you because they hurt you is a very real feeling - I can assure you from my experience. But as you said, she did once love you, and deep down she may still. I advise you to re-read carefully the post I referred to regarding the man's role as the head of the marriage - you are a Godly man and I hope you can see what it is saying there.

I know some people here are advising you to watch out for yourself and keep from getting used (basically). If she is having an affair, that is probably good advice, but if she is just trying to find something enjoyable that distracts her for now, you may have to be patient. Trust is an important facet of marriage - maybe the most important.

I noticed the marriage counselor in this blog keeps advising patience and perserverance, and I agree. Unless I am wrong this topic is only about 3 weeks old? It is difficult, you are hurting and wondering about the future, but it may take more patience than that... I will keep you and your wife in my prayers.

This has been going on since April. The postings started after my wife because my "housemate" and asked me to not even touch her. I ran out of ideas and was starting to consider divorce. She did talk to me about going to the salon yesterday, and I did complement her on her looks. Baby steps in the right direction is all I am asking for right now. If I believe her, it is the way she was treated, not the guys themselves, that she was missing. It's hard to be nice when she is so cold.

Since April - that is hard. Is that when the original fight was?

Again , since I don't know you well I don't want to give you advice, so I will just tell you how I feel and you can take that for what it is worth. (not as much as what your therapist or your wife has to say certainly!)

You are right to savor baby steps and to keep a positive, loving attitude. Don't let the world tell you how to respond - do what you feel is right and best for your marriage. We know the world does not respect the marriage commitment, but obviously you do. If you can stay patient and keep showing her your desire to reconcile and build a better relationship I believe you will make progress. You said she is noticing changes in you (empathy), but she has to believe they are permanent to build the trust again. Sometimes I don't feel very lovable, and when I see my husband loving me anyway, it really affirms his commitment to me and our relationship.

I hope it helps to know you are not the only one going through these growing pains. Hopefully when we come out of the other side our marriages will be stronger for having fought so hard for them! I pray for you daily now, and if you would do the same for my marriage I would appreciate it.

While you are taking those baby steps my friend, be very wary, and proactive against bad behavior. You will know it when you see it. Maybe all she needs is time, and that's okay, there is no hurry, but that doesn't make you a doormat. It should make you pay her closer attention, and a good listener for her vents, and rants, that can be helpful, and healthy. If you just listen.

Listening is important to know when to shut up, and don't try to fix things, and knowing the difference between ranting, venting, and bad behavior.

Pay close attention. By the way I have been married for 35 years, and can tell you paying attention is an absolute must, no matter how you feel.

It occurs to me that supporting her baseball playing, and know her friends, may be just what you need if you can forget jealousy, or resentments for her team mates showing her attention. You did before, why NOT now? If she loves it that much, why NOT?

Vmom1, thanks for your prayers. I'll pray that you have reconciliation in your marriage too. I believe in the power of time to heal wounds. I'm a history buff, so I know very well that with time enemies can become friends.

Talaniman, if I can get past my initial hurt, I may be able to enjoy baseball again. She still will text me when her favorite pitcher is throwing strikes. While I feel baseball for her is an obsession that she's thrown herself into because she's unhappy with our marriage, there was I time when I enjoyed the game along with her. I'm beginning to see her new "friends" not as potential suitors, but rather, as examples of courteous conversation. I hope that with time the their newness wears off and she can finally go out on a date with me.

Take this as a warning, waiting for something that may, or may not happen, is NOT what you do in a relationship, nor marriage, when its you being there to share your partners happiness (and sadness), is what counts.

Go back a reread your thread and see that you have already passed on many things you should have understood and shared with her to the detriment of you both. There was a lesson to be learned that NOT to assume you fixed things with words, and ignored the whole thing she was going through.

That's the disconnect you have now, and it will continue until you become actively involved, NOT with fixing things, but in SHARING the experience she goes through, good or bad. Its called loving support, and caring enough to just be there.

You are no different than any guy who breathes a sigh of relief when your female stops nagging or b1tching about one thing or another, because you think the issue is over, and fail to see that it is NOT. They may have stopped complaining because it's a waste of their time and tears to share with you. That's a disaster waiting to happen and all you have to do is pay attention, and give support as they deal, and cope with whatever is bothering them.

Heed my warning, and pay attention, and give time and effort to be there for her in what she does, not out of jealousy, or fear, or control, but because you know that's what she needs, and wants.

I'm sorry, I've written a lot of stuff, and maybe I'm as dense as my wife thinks I am. What specifically should I have understood and shared with her? I realize that calling her a b**** came from my resenting her not being happy with what I was able to provide, and that there was a certain dissatisfaction with her life that I should have addressed. Still, I don't think it's fair that now that I am making a whole-hearted 180 change in my approach to our marriage that she won't give me another chance. She used to be Catholic, and was raised Apostolic Christian, so why doesn't she accept the concepts of forgiveness and reconciliation?

It takes time, my friend, and your impatience for wanting her to understand your side of things is a killer. She can only see things through her own feelings of misery, and pain, which has been going on an awful long time. But of course you weren't paying attention to that then, and even now you ignore that fact. That's because you are seeing things through your own feelings.

Are we back to the concept of empathy again? Somebody is going in circles here, and its not me.

For once get out of self, to gain another perspective besides your own.

So, she continue to be hurt and angry with me. This will go on as long as she chooses, regardless of what I say or do. The only thing I can do is be there for her. I cannot reason with her or have her look at the consequences of what a divorce would have on us or the kids. All she knows right now is that she in not happy with me, but is happy with her friends. So, she will spend time with them to get away from me and her unhappiness. She will watch baseball games to distract her from her unhappiness. We are supposed to go to a game next month. Should I not go with her if she asks me to stay home?

No, nor should you press it. Sometimes its best if our partners work through there own stuff, in their own time, in their own way.

Tough when you have never done it before.

when its you being there to share your partners happiness (and sadness), is what counts.

That's the disconnect you have now, and it will continue until you become actively involved, NOT with fixing things, but in SHARING the experience she goes through, good or bad. Its called loving support, and caring enough to just be there.


Quote by Talaniman,
You are no different than any guy who breathes a sigh of relief when your female stops nagging or b1tching about one thing or another, because you think the issue is over, and fail to see that it is NOT. They may have stopped complaining because it's a waste of their time and tears to share with you. That's a disaster waiting to happen and all you have to do is pay attention, and give support as they deal, and cope with whatever is bothering them.

I agree with talaniman here: Sometimes we shut up because we just feel its fruitless, not that we are over it. I just got an email (from an email series I suscribed to) about this very question - here is a piece of it...

Everyday I get literally hundreds of emails from
people all over the world asking me their most pressing questions about their marriage.

People share with me their relationship stories that took years to unfold in a couple of short paragraphs. And then end with, "What should I
do?"

In most cases, it took years for their marriage to give birth to this question and the cause of their circumstances lies in the roots of their
marital and personal scripting. Nonetheless, they want an answer NOW and they want it in a reply email.

And you thought you had a tough job!

In the age of Fed Ex, high-speed internet, and 7-day diets, it's quite common for people to want to "microwave" their marriage to renewal. That will NEVER work.

When it comes to THINGS, you can be efficient. When it comes to relationships, there are no short cuts. It takes time.

Ironically, the search for a quick answer to your marital situation delays the process you will eventually have to go through. When it comes to
your marriage, slow is fast and fast is slow. In other words, if you try to go too fast and skip-over the necessary steps, you'll slow down
the whole process. But if you go slow and rebuild your marriage one step at a time...that's the fastest way.

It's a process, and it takes time. It took time to get this bad, it will take time to get better. My husband asked me last night "What is one thing I can do for you that will be right all the time?". That's a hard question, and I feel terrible that he thinks he is screwing up all the time, but the fact is he has not listened for so long he doesn't know where to start. I know I am part of this, and need to have more of a spirit of thankfulness, but we have gotten to a difficult place and only time, and small steps like the one he suggests, will get us back to a healthy relationship. I am only telling you this so you know you are not alone.

I don't agree it will go on as long as she chooses regardless of what you do or say. Being there for her, listening, will open doors. Is there some small thing you can do for her - not to get something from her, but that she just enjoys, that would help her see you are waiting patiently and want her companionship again? I had a friend whose husband brought her her nightly cup of tea every night for a year and they were barely speaking, but he did it no matter what. She finally saw his commitment and sincerety in this small act, and she began to open up to him.
It is hard, but you love her and love is worth it!

Keeping you in my prayers - thank you for doing the same.

I understand that it will take time. My concern is that my efforts are being undermined by her continuing to talk about and communicate with her new "friends". Again, she feels they treated her kindly, whereas she feels I have not. I admit that I've not treated her the way I did when we first dated. But, we have so many other issues to deal with than when we first dated. I've told her it bothers me when she continues to talk about these guys, but she doesn't seem to care. I've not given her an ultimatum because then I'm putting her on my timeline for resolving these issues. Ideally, she would realize she doesn't need these guys for emotional support, as I would become her emotional support. That is my goal, but it's hard to gauge progress when she continue to blame me for her unhappiness and won't give me another chance.

A baby step was her actually buying a book on marital relationship, I believe it's "Too Good to Leave, too Bad to Stay". Now, she just needs to read it and see how it applies to our marriage.

There you go again, telling her the best way to fix what you have neglected. You may not see her need for outside emotional support, but it's there, and it upsets you. Where was that emotional support before when she needed it? So why should she trust you for "emotional" support?

Then there is YOUR time line for fixes, and progress, when it should be define by you both, and your hoping she see YOUR way of thinking, and submit to it. From what you have written, these are the very things she is fighting against. Surely you can see her resistance to your plan, your way of thinking, and your "FIXES"!

Is there no way for you to see things except through your own eyes?? Empathy and patience are what you need, not ignoring what she is saying to you through her actions. All I see in your posts are jealousy and resentment. But no where have you taken responsibility for your own actions and tried to fix yourself.

Go ahead, give us the self improvement plan for YOU, and NOT HER.

Lord, I hate when people don't take advice. You want us to tell you what you want to hear? AIN'T
Going to happen.

Give her some space and let her breath. What I see is , ME, ME.
ME. You need to lighten up and get to know your wife. Stop with the questioning. Geeze

I didn't buy the book, she bought it after her sister (who knows mostly my side because my wife won't talk to her about this) recommended it. It's sitting on our coffee table, as is the book "For Better, the Science of a Good Marriage". I don't ask her about our relationship anymore. We are housemates. I have gone to several therapy sessions, and the advice given is to just listen and not to lecture to her. I don't talk to her about the marriage anymore. I take the kids to school in the AM, help them with their homework and get them out of the house on weekends. I go to the gym early in the AM focus on work most of the time. I am cordial and polite with my wife, always wishing her a good night, to which she never responds. I let her watch her baseball games in peace.

Well Kitkat 22, my wife it getting her breathing space. She went to see her "friend" tonight, the one she told that she was unhappy with her marriage. She says she is so unhappy and that she can't talk to any of her other friends but him. I read the first chapter in the book "For Better, the Science of a Good Marriage". I told her about a passage saying that the high expectations of emotional satisfaction makes marriage difficult. I acknowledged that I had not emotionally satisfied her, and that is why she has these new "friends". She is not interested in reconciling. She's actually thinking through the consequences of divorce. I suggested she not just thing of the immediate effects, but the effects 5 years from now on all of us, including the kids.

Well Kitkat 22, my wife it getting her breathing space. She went to see her "friend" tonight, the one she told that she was unhappy with her marriage. She says she is so unhappy and that she can't talk to any of her other friends but him. I read the first chapter in the book "For Better, the Science of a Good Marriage". I told her about a passage saying that the high expectations of emotional satisfaction makes marriage difficult. I acknowledged that I had not emotionally satisfied her, and that is why she has these new "friends". She is not interested in reconciling. She's actually thinking through the consequences of divorce. I suggested she not just thing of the immediate effects, but the effects 5 years from now on all of us, including the kids.

I'm really sorry. What are you going to do?

I am mentally preparing for a divorce. I told her that the old marriage is gone, and since she was that unhappy, that's a good thing. If we got back together it would be a new marriage, if we didn't then it would be no marriage. I will wait for her to file, but if she doesn't and things drag on into the new year without her making any effort on the marriage, then I will file. These weeks of limbo seem to have taken a toll on her, as she says she is constantly unhappy, while I've tried to focus on hope. Now, hope is fading fast, and I have to look at a future without my wife. I asked her if she thinks she would be happy if we divorced, and she wasn't sure.

I am mentally preparing for a divorce. I told her that the old marriage is gone, and since she was that unhappy, that's a good thing. If we got back together it would be a new marriage, if we didn't then it would be no marriage. I will wait for her to file, but if she doesn't and things drag on into the new year without her making any effort on the marriage, then I will file. These weeks of limbo seem to have taken a toll on her, as she says she is constantly unhappy, while I've tried to focus on hope. Now, hope is fading fast, and I have to look at a future without my wife. I asked her if she thinks she would be happy if we divorced, and she wasn't sure.

I'm really sorry. It's better that you know. I would tell her if she was going to do it, there is no need to wait. It's putting undue pressure on you. She's already moved on and you know that. Get it over with and start rebuilding your life. I would insist she do it now. Good Luck and keep us posted.

My wife is having second thoughts about divorcing. She admitted she can't make a budget and worries (rightfully so) that I won't help her any more that what is ordered by the court. She became distraught thinking about me taking half the furniture, half the kitchen items, and the piano (since I'm the one who plays). Yet, she still want to go back to New York with her "friend" to see the Yankees. Rather than threatening divorce if she goes, I told her she needs to start respecting boundaries in our marriage. I also insisted on going to marriage counseling so that we don't make the same mistakes and risk getting hurt again. She said it would be painful recounting the times I hurt or disappointed her to another person. I said a professional can help her come to terms with those episodes.

I don't want the marriage I had, with the lack of boundaries and respect. Is it fair to get a divorce if she refuses marriage counseling?

My wife is having second thoughts about divorcing. She admitted she can't make a budget and worries (rightfully so) that I won't help her any more that what is ordered by the court. She became distraught thinking about me taking half the furniture, half the kitchen items, and the piano (since I'm the one who plays). Yet, she still want to go back to New York with her "friend" to see the Yankees. Rather than threatening divorce if she goes, I told her she needs to start respecting boundaries in our marriage. I also insisted on going to marriage counseling so that we don't make the same mistakes and risk getting hurt again. She said it would be painful recounting the times I hurt or disappointed her to another person. I said a professional can help her come to terms with those episodes.

I don't want the marriage I had, with the lack of boundaries and respect. Is it fair to get a divorce if she refuses marriage counseling?



If she only wants you around so she can keep the furniture and the piano that's no reason to stay. If she refuses help or counseling.. you need to sever the ties and move on. By the tone of your response, I think you've already accepted it's over. Stick to your plans.

If she is reading books about the science of a good marriage, I would think that is a good sign. Can you offer to read it with her, meeting to discuss each chapter, what it meant to you, how it can help your marriage. I can tell you when my husband and I were going through this I stopped reading all of my relationship books because I had no hope and a lot of anger. I am now reading the "5 love languages" hoping to learn to better communicate with my husband, who has many of the same complaints as you: respect, appreciation...
Can you ask her to try counseling for 3 months? Then assess whether it helps, you can make changes, small ones to improve things?
It sounds like she is appreciating how you support her, and that is what you wanted. She sees now what she would lose without you, even if it is the house and furniture, lifestyle... isn't that what you have been claiming as your proof of love all this time? Now that she is afraid to lose it, you are offended that that is what she sees she gets from you? (sorry, some bitterness spilling over from my situation)
At least you see the need for counseling, are willing to make changes - I don't have that here... But can I say, you waffle each week from I love her I am willing to stick this out.. to.. if she doesn't _____ should I file for divorce.. Not the patience and consistency the blog has been talking about...

She may be afraid, but marriage counseling can't hurt. That's a major concession if she goes, so make an appointment, and go from there. This is where the empathy, and PATIENCE comes in. Forget divorce for now an keep an open mind.

Fair warning, many hidden intense emotions may surface on both sides. Empathy, and PATIENCE Say it ten times to yourself, 4 times a day, until this is resolved!!

I'm not in a hurry to end our marriage. It's just that I'm realizing that it won't get better unless she gets help. She has cried so much and has blamed me for so long that I'm not worried about what will come out in therapy. At some point I will have had enough and move on with my life. I'm not there right now though.

The "at some point" is supposed to be death. Remember that part of the vows?
You really don't sound committed to hearing your wife out and be willing to make major changes and steps toward her, based on what comes out in marriage counseling. If you aren't willing to knuckle down and really work through this and aim for the end of the tunnel (which could be a long way off), I really don't think you are going to have the stamina to make it.
I told my husband that I have rededicated myself to "loving, honoring, and cherishing " him because that is what I promised to do. It is an act of will for right now, but hopefully with some time and healing it will be easier. Lots of time, lots of healing.

My wife has no interest in any type of counseling. We have major issues regarding boundaries and expectations in the marriage, and she feels everything is my fault exclusively. She says she doesn't love me and will never have sex with me again. I told her the old marriage didn't work for either of us, so we need to have a new marriage that we both work on. She doesn't not want to do any work at all. She sees her choice as one between divorce and continuing this unhappy marriage, and she has chosen the latter without any intention of making it better. If she wasn't depressed before, I think she is starting to become depressed now, given how she has framed the issue. She is in desperate need of help, which she continues to refuse. I can't leave her like this, but I don't now what else to do except be there for when she needs me and take care of myself, as well as be there for the kids.

As long as you support her behavior, depressed or NOT. Then you condone what she is doing and she will keep doing it. I tell her that this is UNACCEPTABLE, has gone far enough, and I start handling my business the legal, binding way, by getting my own finances secured, and safe, Get an consultation with a lawyer, and have plan B ready to go when plan A fails.

She may be afraid of counseling, understandable, but as you say, if she needs help, and won't get it, now what should you do. Plan B!!

Well, she's talking about going to New York again. I will have to give her an ultimatum on that trip. I cannot have her disrespecting me and crossing boundaries like that, regardless of how unhappy she is. If she goes on the trip, I will file for divorce.

I asked her to consider counseling for 3 months, individual or couples. I said this way, if things don't work out, at least we will have no regrets as we will have tried everything. I also said that we owe it to the kids. If this is more than situational, and there is a hereditary component to all this, than we owe it to the kids to find out. She didn't like me bringing in the kids, but I said if we don't find out then one of them may develop an issue in the future that we could be prepared for if there are behavioral conditions that run in the family.

Why do I think she is pushing YOUR buttons to keep you miserable?

She looks more miserable than I. She has no one to talk to except her "friends". I have friends/family and you all. I think she really doesn't care about my feelings, only her own. She says and does what she feels will make her happy, not thinking about the consequences.

She is insisting on going to New York with her 'friend', doesn't want to go with me, and says she will file for divorce so that she can go. I saw my therapist yesterday and she gave me the number of a family law attorney. At this point I have to protect myself so that I can better take care of the kids. I WANT MY MARRIAGE BACK. Last night I gave her a Tiffany bracelet that she has been wanting for some time. She started crying about how I called her a b**** 5 months ago. I sent her a link to a medical website about depression and divorce. I've asked her repeatedly to get help but she refuses.

I can't do this by myself anymore.

You have been quiet for awhile? What is happening with you and your wife? I have been praying for you - hopefully you are seeing some hope in the future.