What do you think of my situation? When my girlfriend and I first started getting serious last June, she didn't have car, her previous car had wiring harness problems, so I bought her a Honda Civic. But she rejected it, started driving a rental car all the time. So I let her pick out a '94 Acura Legend for $4500, which she said she just loves. It runs a little hot sometimes, but has been good. But with her birthday coming up tomorrow, for the last two months she has been leaning on me to buy her another car.

My girlfriend says "Buy me a car for my birthday, or we're over"... She has said this several times, and even cut me off for several days when she wanted me to go look at a cadillac and I told her I didn't have enough cash on me that day to buy her an STS. She said she cut me off because she thought I was going to cancel on her, or let her down about it. I needed time to get more money, two days earlier I had just spent $1100 on fixing her current car, and last month had loaned her an extra $1000 beyond what I usually give her each week. But she didn't let me explain, she just cut me off based on what she thought she heard.

She has also told me if she has to ask another guy to help her, the guy she lives with (but says the relationship is over with), then we're really over.

She's back, been treating me OK for a few days, and talking about looking for a car again. I think she loves me, but this seems over the top. Should I have any hope for a good outcome with someone who says this?

More info here:
Buzz Ard | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000723477312&v=wall&story_fbid=139406772748718&ref=mf)

Thanks!

She's using you as an ATM. Sorry. Don't buy her the car. If she stays she loves you, if not you are being used.

Oh dear... cut your losses while you can! This relationship is so one sided and you are being used for what you can give her. Just what are you getting from her in this relationship?

You'll be out several thousand dollars for the previous cars, but better that than to continue being taken for your money. Hard lesson learned.

This is not love, not even close to it... this is being her personal ATM! I wish you well...

She's using you as an ATM. Sorry. Don't buy her the car. If she stays she loves you, if not you are being used.

Had to spread the rep... but I just wrote the same thing before I saw your post!

Had to spread the rep....but I just wrote the same thing before I saw your post!

Great minds think alike and op you are being used. I'm so sorry.

Just get out!!

Nothing can good can come out of a gold digger.

Get out and take the old car if you can.

Make sure she does not know any of your credit card numbers, I would change them just to be sure.

Get out and take the old car if you can.

Make sure she does not know any of your credit card numbers, I would change them just to be sure.



Great advice Fr_Chuck... I would also check the silverware.:;)

So she lives with another guy but tells you that's over, and then she demands you buy her a car for her birthday or else.

Ummmm hello there mr cash machine, do you not see what we all here see in this scenario?

This girl is not in any relationship with you, she thinks you're a black horse or her personal piggy bank, and not only that she's not even subtle or thankful to you for anything you've paid for or done to help her out thus far.

If anything she thinks its your duty to keep her in cars and whatever else, she's lent money from you? Did you ask what it was for? Has she made any attempts to repay you?
I think you can kiss that goodbye...

I take it she doesn't go out to work? She lives with someone?

Its her birthday tomorrow is it, then go down to a toy shop and buy a dinky toy car or matchbox one, those really little small cars "toys" wrap it in paper, find a huge box put the little package inside the huge box. Wrap that in gift wrap paper, and add a bow to it.Put a little note in side it saying so long drive safely. Hehe

Then have it sent around to where she lives, add a card to it, preferably a in sympathy card.

Inside card write "See You find another sucker. This friendship or acquaintance is officially dead, RIP and good riddance"". Leave box and card on her doorstep and turn then walk away and don't look back, if she phones you block her number, have no more contact with her whatsoever. Ever, change your phone number, throw any letters or mail in the trash unopened. Ignore all texts and anything else.

Put an announcement in the local paper, One over used goldigger free to collector. No service history, Gold digger, with no gold. Can dig own grave though easily.
That's it. TRY IT It'll WORK.

You know that what she is doing is wrong. That's why you are here.

Listen to what your gut is telling you.

Seriously OP you're being used as a cash machine, and no more, you're not in a relationship, you're in a clear out regime, she's clearing your bank account out, bit by bit, she's greedy ungrateful and totally selfish and full of herself, it's a miracle she can get in a car with her head being so swollen and full of her own self importance.

Dump her as suggested in above post, give her a dose of her own medicine, you can and will find better, much better, she doesn't love you only herself and her selfish ego.

Please don't let her treat you in this way, she's totally rotten to the core, and you'll only be wanted for as long as you're spewing forth dollars on her for her, and only her.

You sound like a really nice guy, so please get away from this leech of a person, and regain your respect dignity and cash flow, whilst you can, I wouldn't be at all surprised if this isn't some joint venture with her and the b/f she lives with, and I doubt the relationships ended at all that's another line she's spinning you.

Don't buy her any car, other than a toy one as in last post, Drop her now, this moment. You're being used she's no more than a con artist. And a taker of the most extreme kind.

Good luck, anythings got to be better than sticking with the leech.

It's amazing how people picked up stuff I didn't even mention.

I went to a used car lot more than once to look for a good car for her. When I told the used car salesman about who I was shopping for, and her situation, he threw me off his lot, wouldn't show me any more cars, figured I was wasting his time. It must be pretty bad when even a used car salesman doesn't want to take my money... I saw a guy trying to sell a mercedes for $2K, pretty good condition, I thought it was a scam but it was a fair price, he was desperate for money, but even he didn't call me back after I told him the story of who I was shopping for.

Yeah, her attitude is she doesn't owe me anything, even despite the loans, imbalance, and even many cases of give me this and I'll give you that where I do my part, but for her part she leaves me holding a raincheck that never gets made up. She can complain endlessly about anything I didn't do, or didn't do quick enough, or did wrong, even months ago, but if I say anything about her lack of honesty back then, she'll say it was her life, she didn't say she was my girl at that time. Huh? Then why get on my case?

I can think of probably a dozen things over the last year that I wanted us to do together at least as much as she wants this car, all were cancelled and never replaced. And none of them would have cost her two or three months of all her discretionary income. Just some time, some kindness, and a willingness to chill, relax, and have a good time.

She'll say "I didn't hold a gun to your head, you did everything you did on your own, you didn't have to do these things, so I dont owe you anything."

But this demand really feels like holding a gun to whatever our relationship is.

She had her poolside birthday party yesterday at her place. Out of 200 Facebook friends, maybe a dozen responded to her invitation. Last week after I went shopping with her for party supplies, she said "You can just drop by to the pool to swim, and get some food" but I told her immediately "Are you for real? You're going to have to repeat that invitation before i believe it." she said she is always thinking of things like that. But yesterday I texted her "Happy birthday, I got my swim trunks on," but she didn't repeat the invite, said she and I would have our own party today. She called me for directions to pick up a $135 fruit basket she had me order for the party. She told me her ex was making some kind of problems for her that morning... I didn't hear from her at all the rest of the day.

She has proven over a year that she has no integrity.

But I give her a little bit of credit: At least she has announced how little intention she has of keeping her word. That way if I do something, and she is ungrateful, or fails to do anything in return, she can truthfully say "Why are you surprised?"

Its good for me she isn't more smooth.

I've gotten to the point where I fear being broke more than I fear not having her around.

Let me get this straight, she asked you to pick up the fruit basket, but you're not really invited to her birthday party?

It doesn't even sound like she's taking you seriously. She's just messing around with you and you're just playing along as her dormat. Furthermore, you're feeling pity for yourself by taking the blame for her behavior.

I'm sorry to sound harsh, but whatever type of relationship you have with her is very unhealthy and disfunctional.

I would say, pick yourself up, quit being a dormat and find someone else that you can have a healthy relationship with. A healthy relationship operates on a two-way street.

Let me get this straight, she asked you to pick up the fruit basket, but you're not really invited to her birthday party?

It doesn't even sound like she's taking you seriously. She's just messing around with you and you're just playing along as her dormat. Furthermore, you're feeling pity for yourself by taking the blame for her behavior.

I'm sorry to sound harsh, but whatever type of relationship you have with her is very unhealthy and disfunctional.

I would say, pick yourself up, quit being a dormat and find someone else that you can have a healthy relationship with. A healthy relationship operates on a two-way street.








She sounds like a self -centered narcissistic woman. If you stay with her.. you can expect more of the same treatment. Leave as fast as you can. She'll have you in debt up to your ears. Check your credit cards and wallet before you leave.:rolleyes:

I have to agree with what everyone else has said. She's using you. I don't see where you are getting anything good out of this. It's just a matter of time before she's gotten all she can from you and moves on, leaving you to deal with your heartbreak. Dump her and get on with your life. Part of that should include figuring out how you let someone use you like this. You deserve so much more.

She's a user and I'll bet the farm if you checked with some of her other squeezes, she's taken them to the cleaners.

I too vote that you get out fast! You write well and seem so smart, but where's your common sense? I know several nice girls who would kill for a thoughtful, generous guy like you -- and who wouldn't abuse you.

Oh lord! Have mercy. Just when I think I have seen it all, something new and shocking comes up. Sam, what is going on with you brother?

There's a really nice Black Lexus, fully loaded I would like to have.:D
Where do you live?:eek: KIdding

Please leave and find a nice young lady. We're living in a material world and she's a material girl.:rolleyes:

Hey Sam if you're in the UK, I have a few girlfriends. LOL joke.

Truthfully you know you can get a hooker for less than your extortionater leech is asking, telling sorry!
At least you would get something in return. And you'd also know where you stand, and you would also get a bit of rumpy pumpy as well I believe.

What do you get from this sad sack leech? A few crumbs, scattered all around, so that you don't even get them all.

Is she on drugs? I still feel that she's living with the b/f she claims to have finished, with I reckon they're scamming you together, its all a set up.

They're out to bleed you dry Op don't let them, you need to wake up and smell the coffee. Take your wallet credit or cash cards, and get into your car and just drive, as far away from that place as is possible.

Please tell us you didn't buy her a car??

Just to make sure I wasn't tripping, maybe her invite was for real, early yesterday morning I texted her:
"I got my swim trunks on already! lol!"
She texted back: "Its ugly out n we wil do us 2mornw"

Last week, when she had me out buying stuff for her party, she talked about how she had a really great place in mind for us to go for her birthday, today (Monday), could I take time off work that. ("You'll have access to your bank on Monday right?" she asked... "Sure thing!")


She assured me she would have a plate of leftovers from her party for me on Sunday, but I told her it would be fine, I'd be happy to have them for lunch on Monday, no need for me to spend 90 minutes round trip on Sunday evening to pick up leftovers I could pick up when I drive by her place Monday morning on my commute to work. But she assured me she wanted me to have them on Sunday... Well, after her call for directions to pickup the fruitbasket, surprise, no more call from her in the evening as to when to pick up a plate of leftovers.

At about 10pm, I text her "Good night love, hope you had a great birthday party, happy birthday to you..." No response...

This morning I didn't hear from her as early as usual. I am thinking to myself, "Hmmm... Maybe the other guy actually bought her a car for her birthday party, and now I am cut off." And if not today, maybe tomorrow he will buy her the car. Or next week. She once told me she likes the competition between us, she claims he keeps trying to compete with me...

This morning she calls me, saying her brother (underemployed tattoo artist who always needs to borrow some money when I see him (except he never pays back, so he needs gifts too)) told her that she should call me. She was telling me she got a present from everyone, about 10, (then she said 15) presents, and $156 cash. (She was seriously discussing the other day to charge guests $1 per drink at her party... )

She then tells me her place is a mess, people are still there, she's still a bit hungover, and she really hates the guy she lives with. "He's in the bathroom, but I dont care if he hears me." She claims she told everyone in the middle of the party that she was really unhappy, everyone got quiet, then went back to partying, and she said the guy said to her "Why did you have to say something like that to everyone?"

Then she let me know she wants to call off our get together for during the day today, she says she so didn't want to cancel, so could we instead do Black Angus for her birthday dinner tonight? And we would definitely have a roll in the hay afterwards... And would I be sure to call her as soon as I get to work. She says she really misses me. Me: "OK dear, glad you got some nice presents, I'll go to work, see you later. Happy birthday to you...."

I drive to work, thinking about a cool idea for a card. I have been too burnt out to really have much fun shopping for gifts for her. I think of her demands for a car, and how as a kid, my parents got me socks at Christmas and taught me I should be as happy with a pair of socks as a toy. (They also got me some toys too that holiday, but I don't remember what they were. But I still remember the point.)

I've already furnished a lot for her party, $135 basket, $150 in party favors, $140 cash, repaired her car earlier this month (ok that's maybe not fair), I thought of a couple of other things.

I thought of getting her a Macy's gift card, but then I thought maybe I would give her the money, with a string taped to each bill, (a string attached, get it?) with a card on the end specifying what that piece of money should be spent for. One piece of money for "Love", one for "Happiness", and one for "Wealth". Probably hundred dollar bills. I'm kind of excited about the kookie what to make a fun gift out of being too lazy and unmotivated to go shopping. I also got some zirconium earings that she saw that she wanted, (haven't seen her wear the diamond earings I bought her last year in quite a while.)

About an 90 minutes later, as I am driving to work, but had stopped to look for cards for her, I find out she texted me, "Im thinking 2morow wil b best 4 us hope that wil nt affect us let me kn - HAPPI BDAY 2 ME"

I think about that for a while. "Affect us"? What little there is of us, I think to myself. No, not at all...

I decide it is her birthday, and I'm not going to make any waves. That once I get to work I'll text her "Whatever you think is best for us. Plan your birthday for your happiness. Happy birthday to you."

Most of my enthusiasm about the card and the three gifts inside waning, I get back on my bike to drive to work, no cards in hand (too early stores at mall still closed), considering making them be $1 bills with strings attached. Maybe to hairballs.

I think about a friend who sells nice cars, and I consider asking to borrow a car from him to meet her in tomorrow, and when she wonders if the car is her gift for her birthday, I can say something like, "Well, it's past your birthday this year, maybe next time you have a birthday that I'm actuallly a significant part of, you'll find out." I look at some used cars, and consider buying one for me, just for a day. Too much bother... I'm not so into games. I consider just talking to her like an adult about how unacceptable everyone finds her demands, and that the car is not going to make her happy. Instead, I'd like to help her do something about where she lives, if she can find a place of her own to live, and show me I am really welcome in her life, maybe we can discuss the car someday in the future.

I get to work finally, it's 80 minutes later, (I spent a lot of time driving around thinking of all your responses I read here, and other places I posted this question.)

And she is calling as I arrive at work, but I finish driving in the parking garage to park my motorcycle. She knows I drive a motorcycle, and I can't always talk on the cell phone while driving, I will usually pull over at the next exit and call her back. By the time I get parked, I have two angry messages from her:

9:46am "I dont feel like hearing the bull that you spitting out to me today, you know I'm calling you, I asked you give me a call. So be it, forget it. I'm not fixing to go through that with you.
I think you a little upset because I cancelled, I didn't mean to cancel. I called you early and said hey we can do something tomorrow.
And it is my birthday, but i dont care, I'm not happy about my birthday anyway.
When you get this message know I called you, If I dont answer, its simply because I am simply busy.
I'm going to talk to you later,
you have a great day.

And:
9:47am "Second time I called you, I texted you too, no response.
I'm going to enjoy my day. Have a good day. Bye."

I had not yet called her back or texted her...

"

I had not yet called her back or texted her....

"? Nah... Not much left to affect...

We text back and forth:
Me: Just arrived at work... whatever you feel is best about today or tomorrow. Plan your birthday however makes you happy. Happy birthday to u. Love u."

She: "? Nah... Not much left to affect....

We text back and forth:
Me: Just arrived at work... whatever u feel is best about today or tommorrow. Plan ur birthday however makes u happy. Happy birthday to u. Love u."

Me: "I have fd 4 u n get rm by me ok nd 2 feel u bt im upset @ u - HAPPI BDAY 2 ME"
Me: "Just heard ur msgs. No clue y u upset with me. If it makes u feel better call n unload on me."
Her: "Otherwise try to have a happy birthday. If u change ur mind about dinner, let me know an hour or so ahead, dinner would be nice. Happy birthday to you."
Me: Yeah... Miss giving me a lashing and a beating if nothing else... lol! Happy Birthday to you!
Her: Thank u
Her: No u my air mis u
Me: I feel the same about you...



Not at all surprised about the cancels... I'm still waiting for the trip to Black Angus she promised me from back on birthday on the 4th. Or, if she can't afford that, showing up at my hotel room one of the 5 evenings since then that I've been in town, with a nice fresh home cooked meal. Or even showing up and saying, "Love u mis u" Sigh...

Maybe when I see her, there will be no birthday card at all... "Order us a pizza, or Chinese food, and lets watch a movie..."

Nah, not much left to affect...

Just to make sure I wasn't tripping, maybe her invite was for real, early yesterday morning I texted her:
"I got my swim trunks on already! lol!"
She texted back: "Its ugly out n we wil do us 2mornw"

Last week, when she had me out buying stuff for her party, she talked about how she had a really great place in mind for us to go for her birthday, today (Monday), could I take time off work that. ("You'll have access to your bank on Monday right?" she asked... "Sure thing!")


She assured me she would have a plate of leftovers from her party for me on Sunday, but I told her it would be fine, I'd be happy to have them for lunch on Monday, no need for me to spend 90 minutes round trip on Sunday evening to pick up leftovers I could pick up when I drive by her place Monday morning on my commute to work. But she assured me she wanted me to have them on Sunday..... Well, after her call for directions to pickup the fruitbasket, surprise, no more call from her in the evening as to when to pick up a plate of leftovers.

At about 10pm, I text her "Good night love, hope you had a great birthday party, happy birthday to you..." No response....

This morning I didn't hear from her as early as usual. I am thinking to myself, "Hmmm... Maybe the other guy actually bought her a car for her birthday party, and now I am cut off." And if not today, maybe tommorrow he will buy her the car. Or next week. She once told me she likes the competition between us, she claims he keeps trying to compete with me....

This morning she calls me, saying her brother (underemployed tattoo artist who always needs to borrow some money when I see him (except he never pays back, so he needs gifts too)) told her that she should call me. She was telling me she got a present from everyone, about 10, (then she said 15) presents, and $156 cash. (She was seriously discussing the other day to charge guests $1 per drink at her party....)

She then tells me her place is a mess, people are still there, shes still a bit hungover, and she really hates the guy she lives with. "He's in the bathroom, but I dont care if he hears me." She claims she told everyone in the middle of the party that she was really unhappy, everyone got quiet, then went back to partying, and she said the guy said to her "Why did you have to say something like that to everyone?"

Then she let me know she wants to call off our get together for during the day today, she says she so didn't want to cancel, so could we instead do Black Angus for her birthday dinner tonight? And we would definitely have a roll in the hay afterwards.... And would I be sure to call her as soon as I get to work. She says she really misses me. Me: "OK dear, glad you got some nice presents, I'll go to work, see you later. Happy birthday to you...."

I drive to work, thinking about a cool idea for a card. I have been too burnt out to really have much fun shopping for gifts for her. I think of her demands for a car, and how as a kid, my parents got me socks at Christmas and taught me I should be as happy with a pair of socks as a toy. (They also got me some toys too that holiday, but I dont remember what they were. But I still remember the point.)

I've already furnished a lot for her party, $135 basket, $150 in party favors, $140 cash, repaired her car earlier this month (ok that's maybe not fair), I thought of a couple of other things.

I thought of getting her a Macy's gift card, but then I thought maybe I would give her the money, with a string taped to each bill, (a string attached, get it?) with a card on the end specifying what that piece of money should be spent for. One piece of money for "Love", one for "Happiness", and one for "Wealth". Probably hundred dollar bills. I'm kind of excited about the kookie what to make a fun gift out of being too lazy and unmotivated to go shopping. I also got some zirconium earings that she saw that she wanted, (haven't seen her wear the diamond earings I bought her last year in quite a while.)

About an 90 minutes later, as I am driving to work, but had stopped to look for cards for her, I find out she texted me, "Im thinking 2morow wil b best 4 us hope that wil nt affect us let me kn - HAPPI BDAY 2 ME"

I think about that for a while. "Affect us"? What little there is of us, I think to myself. No, not at all....

I decide it is her birthday, and I'm not going to make any waves. That once I get to work I'll text her "Whatever you think is best for us. Plan your birthday for your happiness. Happy birthday to you."

Most of my enthusiasm about the card and the three gifts inside waning, I get back on my bike to drive to work, no cards in hand (too early stores at mall still closed), considering making them be $1 bills with strings attached. Maybe to hairballs.

I think about a friend who sells nice cars, and I consider asking to borrow a car from him to meet her in tommorrow, and when she wonders if the car is her gift for her birthday, I can say something like, "Well, it's past your birthday this year, maybe next time you have a birthday that I'm actuallly a significant part of, you'll find out." I look at some used cars, and consider buying one for me, just for a day. Too much bother.... I'm not so into games. I consider just talking to her like an adult about how unacceptable everyone finds her demands, and that the car is not going to make her happy. Instead, I'd like to help her do something about where she lives, if she can find a place of her own to live, and show me I am really welcome in her life, maybe we can discuss the car someday in the future.

I get to work finally, it's 80 minutes later, (I spent a lot of time driving around thinking of all your responses I read here, and other places I posted this question.)

And she is calling as I arrive at work, but I finish driving in the parking garage to park my motorcycle. She knows I drive a motorcycle, and I can't always talk on the cell phone while driving, I will usually pull over at the next exit and call her back. By the time I get parked, I have two angry messages from her:

9:46am "I dont feel like hearing the bull that you spitting out to me today, you know I'm calling you, I asked you give me a call. So be it, forget it. I'm not fixing to go through that with you.
I think you a little upset because I cancelled, I didn't mean to cancel. I called you early and said hey we can do something tomorrow.
And it is my birthday, but i dont care, I'm not happy about my birthday anyway.
When you get this message know I called you, If I dont answer, its simply because I am simply busy.
I'm going to talk to you later,
you have a great day.

And:
9:47am "Second time I called you, I texted you too, no response.
I'm going to enjoy my day. Have a good day. Bye."

I had not yet called her back or texted her....

"Affect us"? Nah... Not much left to affect....

We text back and forth:
Me: Just arrived at work... whatever u feel is best about today or tommorrow. Plan ur birthday however makes u happy. Happy birthday to u. Love u."

She: "I have fd 4 u n get rm by me ok nd 2 feel u bt im upset @ u - HAPPI BDAY 2 ME"

Me: "Just heard ur msgs. No clue y u upset with me. If it makes u feel better call n unload on me."
Me: "Otherwise try to have a happy birthday. If u change ur mind about dinner, let me know an hour or so ahead, dinner would be nice. Happy birthday to you."
Her: "Love u mis u"
Me: Yeah... Miss giving me a lashing and a beating if nothing else... lol! Happy Birthday to you!
Her: Thank u
Her: No u my air mis u
Me: I feel the same about you...



Not at all surprised about the cancels.... I'm still waiting for the trip to Black Angus she promised me from back on birthday on the 4th. Or, if she can't afford that, showing up at my hotel room one of the 5 evenings since then that i've been in town, with a nice fresh home cooked meal. Or even showing up and saying, "Order us a pizza, or Chinese food, and lets watch a movie..." Sigh....

Maybe when I see her, there will be no birthday card at all.... "Sorry, I never give belated birthday cards or gifts."

Nah, not much left to affect...

Please don't use text speak. Now retype this in sentences we understand. Thanks

Nah, not much left to affect...

You said this several times. Was there ever anything to affect? Did you really read the responses? Did you think about them? This is not a relationship. She is sucking you dry. Why are you letting her do this? Get out now and get your life on track. I'm wondering if you have ever had a good relationship. I'm wondering how you feel about yourself. If this is any indication, you have a lot of work to do on your own feelings of self-worth.

No... I didn't buy a car... The most I might have done was give her an allowance for the next couple of weeks, and a nice birthday card with quirky strings attached, but the odds of that are going down by the minute...

BTW, the last time I did go on an errand look at a car that she had found online near my place, a few weeks ago, she was just sitting at home with a friend, she didn't have time to drive out to meet me to see the car. Later that day when I saw her, I proposed I would buy the car in both our names, it could be something for us, but for her exclusive use. And she was angry "Just forget it then." Hmm... What does she want, transportation, or a trophy?

I noticed later that when she was sitting at home that morning, she was spending time posting pictures on her Facebook page "My godbabies, my man, and me..." I wasn't in the pictures.

Was glad I hadn't bought the car that day.

Been giving her another few weeks to see if she could shape up, but we're all agreed, it's just not possible.

Was "her man" her roommate or some other man? Doesn't that tell you all you need to know.

Her time should have been up a long time ago.

You, my young friend, are a gifted writer. Don't forget that if you are ever casting about for another career.

I think you are beginning to smell the dirty socks under the bed, aren't you.


I'm betting she's long since sold the diamond earrings you gave her. And wanting to charge money for drinks at her own birthday party?? "Happy birthday to me" multiple times, even when the birthday is over??

Leave and thank God you are smart enough to know she's using you!

Its called cognitive disonance, and it's painful...

Heart wants to believe the words "I'm so unhappy, but you're my best friend, I do care about you, I'm not out to get you, I do love you, it's not that I dont want to see you I really do,", and the mind saying "Woah... Wait a minute, actions speak louder than words...."

I really hate to give up on people. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, and think the best of them, but that puts me at a clear disadvantage in a situation like this one.

I've thought a lot about self-esteem, and I don't think that is the issue. That's intact, I know I'm a good person, I know I'm worthwhile. And I know putting up with her BS won't get me any closer to sainthood.

A certain part of me is like a deer frozen in the headlights when dealing with someone with these kinds of actions. It baffles me.

Yes, she does some drugs: Weed and alcohol, and nothing else, she claims. I don't do either, except a very little bit with her. And it has been very interesting occasionally doing a couple of hits of weed with her, I can now better understand her thought processes. I can understand why my longer, drawn out, carefully constructed thoughts are so frustrating to someone on weed, I can't think like that when I am on it with her, and it is frustrating. All you can handle on weed is a sound bite.

Each time I've hit weed with her, maybe a couple of puffs every couple of weeks, that is enough to trip me for 4 hours. She claims after smoking a whole joint, she's off the high within an hour.

I don't think I've given her enough money to support him, her stories about being very selfish are very believable... She gets very upset at the idea that he is benefiting from what I give her. She's very likely freeloading off him too.

Except for she watches his daughter, she does their laundry, cleans their apartment, throws parties there, etc. I have tried to explain while she might not give him my money, money is fungible. If he doesn't have to support her expenses, because I am supporting her expenses, then he is saving a lot of money that he can spend on fun things, like taking her to vegas.

I once thought if she was at least honest about her situation, I could hang with it a while longer, and give her time to work it out. But I don't need her upset in my life. I'm realizing even if I helped her get her own apartment, even that won't be enough. She's just a plainly unhappy, self-centered person, who probably on some level knows she is using people, but either doesn't care, or feels even worse about herself as a result.

The occasional charm isn't worth all the baggage that goes along with it.

So much for thinking it could be like "Pretty Lady"...

"The occassional charm isn't worth all the baggage that goes along with it."

Says a great deal, doesn't it?

I've said this on other threads: You can really care about a person, even love them, but that doesn't make them the best partner for you.

The more you write, the more you see for yourself what has been going on. She is not mature enough for a truly respectful relationship. Be careful not to let your past together and your feelings of wanting to rescue and help her cause your judgment to be clouded.

Step back... maybe take some time apart, and look at it all clearly. The car ultimatum can provide you with an out. You may find you have a new perspective on the relationship and where to go with it next after some time apart.

Hey we're here if you need us. Now about that Lexus I like (kidding):D

I will bet if you read this whole thing twice, you would slap yourself 3 times, for being a very foolish fellow.

I will bet if you read this whole thing twice, you would slap yourself 3 times, for being a very foolish fellow.

LOL... Tal... I still want a Lexus OP:D

Here's a fun new wrinkle...

No car bought. Yesterday was her birthday, but she didn't have time for me that day, or the previous day. I still bought her some bodywashes from victorias secret, and some zirconium earings. Polled the girl at the jewelry store about the situation, yet another person who agrees with everyone here. I later showed jewelry store girl the things from victorias secret, and I gave her one of the perfumes for being so nice...

Anyhow, saw the girl today for breakfast, gave her the presents, she tossed them in back of her car like they were nothing didn't even look at the card, or in the bag. Topic of conversation: How unhappy she is with her birthday. How she didn't get to go to an $800 Pips 14th Annual Party In Palm Springs 2010 (http://www.partyinpalmsprings.com) weekend. She had told me about that back in April or May, and said we could go with her cousin in his new mercedes. I was really excited this was a step forward, but before I know it, she cancels the idea, says she wants to go alone or with a girlfriend. So I don't buy her the ticket, she can buy it out of her own money, or the budget I give her, I'm not paying for it as a bonus on top of everything else. I already paid for too many parties and vacations in the last year where I wasn't included... she claims repeatedly she was trying to find a girlfriend to go with, because she knew she didn't want to go with me, and she didn't want to go with him. She just likes to hang with her girlfriends she claims. I told her not my problem, I gave her more than enough money over last few months, she could have easily afforded it if she really wanted it. Or she could have let us go together, I would have made the reservation in a flash (uh, yeah, realizing I could get cancelled somehow at the last minute, while she still goes... I give her some credit for changing her mind about aking me before I got the reservation for us... See why I am a bit confused? She could have got me for me for more things, but she wasn't smooth enough... )

BTW, her Facebook on Friday night indicated she was on her way to Palm Springs (6-8 hour drive), but she was calling me on Saturday morning telling me about looking at $6900 cadillac and getting it mechanically tested, but it didn't work out, then she's back for her pool party on Sunday, Sunday morning claiming to me to have been up the whole night before... Who knows what is true? Was the palm springs mention on Facebook just bait to see if I noticed, so she could accuse me of snooping. Was it just to sound cool to friends? I don't know... Maybe not even she knows.

Facebook entries several times over last few days "Hi face book fans... I'm high"... or "I'm drunk...." I'm just watching, but trying to get the point through my thick skull "I don't drink... I dont get high... Do I really want to see my resources disipated like this for rest of my life..."

And of course, most important topic of discussion: how she is unhappy she doesn't have her new car for her birthday...

I am not real quick about these things when I first hear them, but thanks to thinking on all this, I had some quick responses.

Early on, she mentioned again if the other guy buys her a car, then she is leaving me alone. I instantly asked, "So if I buy you a car, you'll leave him alone?"

No, of course not, that is where she lives, was the response...

I respond "If he knew all he has to do to get me out of the picture is buy you a car, then I'm sure he'll buy you two."

Told her I wonder if the reason I didn't see her for her birthday party, or at all on her birthday, is that maybe he had bought her a car. She thought that was silly of me to think. Hey, I heard it from her own mouth...

I told her, gee, he buys a car, I am gone, but if I buy a car, he is not gone, wow, sucks to be me, huh?

We get to a restaurant for breakfast, Long discussion, lost my appetite for breakfast... Let her talk a bunch of stuff out... Lots of talk, several "I don't care if you believe me, but I just said the truth"'s, etc. I just mostly listen, some of it sort of rings together as a very angry, aggravated person, trying to navigate two guys at once, not sure if she should just throw us both away to be more happy, or find someone new, or if I go, fine, go, she'll get someone else on the side, she's had guys on the side before. All over the map.

When we very first got together, she was living at her grandpas house, and as far as I know not hanging with this guy she lives with. She used to come and spend the night with me sometimes. The last time that was nice was July 4th weekend last year. There was once more @ Christmas, but she made it so clear she wanted to be anywhere else, except the part of the 24 hours together that was spent shopping, it was very uncomfortable, I kept offering her to just cancel it, but she stuck with it because she felt she had to... Several times she had promised to work in overnighters back into our schedule, but it has never happened, and I wanted those as much as she wants a car. I told her that. She said she isn't doing them, no matter what, she don't do that.

She discussed some other things where she complains about what I am doing, but she is doing the same things, but according to her I am selfish, she is not... I remind her I am also very generous with her, is she with me?

She cuts off the discussion, but I still manage to say "the last week was really nice, compared to the last 10 weeks that were garbage. If you had made the last 10 weeks as nice as the last week, instead of the pressure games, you might have had another car on your birthday." I told her I even looked for cars yesterday, but she laughed at the idea I could pick the right car, she is picky, I keep thinking something sensible, and maintainble, within budget, like maybe a 2003 Honda Civic LX. She keeps thinking late 90's STS cadillac, what she says she wanted last year... I reminded her that we have yet to go together in the last two months to look at any suitable cars.

I told her I'd solicited responses from several places online about what she said, and I have yet to find anyone in about 50 total responses that agrees with her, so far it seems she is the only person in the world who thinks she is reasonable, I've rarely found such unanimous advice against someone before.

Well, we leave breakfast, she warns me not to talk about the topic anymore. We go to a theatre. I am too upset to pick a movie. We talk a bit more. She says she told me goodbye back at the restaurant, but we are still together at the theatre. She thinks its OK to do a lot of "We're over", then get back together a couple or a few days later (like when she needs more money), and I should forget all about the lost days and cancellations in between.

She says she knows I love her, but I don't realize she really loves me. Ditto vice versa, or something like that...

We go to a bowling alley, she has no patience to wait for anything. In the bowling alley parking lot, she finally opens her cars, and is very impressed with the various body washes and fragrances, then she opens the earnings, and finds the two sets of zirconum earings. Apparently one set resembles some earings she talks of putting on lay away several months ago. Apparently she thinks mine are real diamonds. I don't claim they are, I just say they look very beautiful on you. She tries to get me to say the price, the size, can she get them cleaned, do I still have the receipt? She's clever. I tell her "that's like asking a woman her age...."... I also did my "string attached" idea with a couple of 100's, she thought that was neat, but expected a third hundred for the three wishes. "Nope, you gotta figure out how to split the 2 towards something for each of the 3 wishes. And you have to tell show me what they were spent on, remember, strings attached...." She is overcome with emotion, says she really loves her gifts, I made her day, confesses to very bad behavior, lots of hugs, she even gets me crying a bit with her.

We bowl a few games, lots of talk about her friends, discussions during the party, who is moved in with her, who is arguing with who. Always something going...

She's finally acting and talking like a reasonable person. Actually nice to be with. She calls herself bipolar. I'm wondering multiple personalities, except there are no differing voices like sometimes happen with that. She does have two distinctly different modes though.

And more talk about cars. She tells me about ones she looked at. What about getting this kind of car? Or that kind of car? I ask "Are they available for $4K? If they are moer, it will take time to save for it..." What do I do in the meantime she asks... I describe to her again my preferred route which is to wait for the head gasket to blow in her current car, and then just replace the engine with a 40K mile engine from japan, and end up with a car she has said she really likes, with everything pretty good on it. "What about where the front bumper got pushed out, what about new paint job?" she asks. I say that is easy, I got friends with a body shop. She says she will think seriously about it.

We go back to my room, have some fun, then she goes off to help the guy she lives with on something or other... She promises to slip out tonight to see me for dinner...

Well, dinner is cancelled, I am texted "Don't be mad...." I'm not. I had a blast this evening hanging out with her brother.

He laughs at the whole thing. Tells me if I got what the woman wants, I should call the shots. Tell her go here, go there, and she will if she wants what I have to offer... he promises to give me some group therapy... I told how proud I was of my "so if i buy you a car, then he is gone? No? Gee.. sucks to be me..."

He and I had a really good time hanging out, he introduced me to some friends who stopped by his grandpas place, I had a nice time visiting with his mom, and his grandpa.

But here is the real wrinkle... Stay tuned...

BTW, she really likes makeup sex after an argument...

After one of our reunions, she texts me:
"Look, I love you and we are BFF life and I love u" (Sorry for chat speak, BFF = best friends for)

I play with it a bit, and text back: "Best fighters for life? I hope not, at least not without a lot of immediate mind blowing makeup sex... But I would rather mind blowing sex without the fights"

She texts back: "LOL! I'm upset at you, but in a minute you are my baby"

Anyhow, all seemed good this afternoon when she left after bowling and a visit.

A little background...

About a month ago, she tells me she had decided we could open a joint bank account together as an "Us" thing, to show me she is trying to make progress on an us. She talks about putting my name on her bank account (which she keeps overdrafting, and I keeping bailing her out on several times. She doesn't understand why she can't just rely on calling and getting the balance on the phone, and how dare they don't properly report ATM charges outstanding but not yet cleared... try to teach her how to do a check register but she refuses... ) Anyhow, she suggests opening a new account as something we can do together. Its mainly for her, I have my own accounts, wouldn't even dare to put her name on any of them, it would just be nice to have a new account with her that maybe could get run right.

I put some money in the new account. Make it very clear it is buffer money, never to be spent. Since it is with her bank, I allow the statements to go to her place, along with the ATM cards, etc.

This is an "us" thing, in large part to get me to feel more comfortable about the car she wants...

The next week is when we have the blowup about "I dont have money for the STS today", and she cuts me off. Very shortly after that phone call where she cuts me off, she calls me, and demands to know if I want the money in our joint account or should she just keep it, and then hangs up.

I don't answer right away, but the principle was "ours", not hers.. I'm trying to figure out how to respond without anger... Maybe an hour later she texts me "You dont have to answer, I take it its mine Sam, thanku, leaving bank now."

She beat me to my response that I was working on, and sent: "No the bank account was ours. But if you want ot st**l it for yourself and squash it, let ur heartand what u think is right be ur guide. It is sad if you think you need to lie and steal from me, or us, to get what I would just give you if you could let your heart run your mouth and actions instead of the something else that keeps taking over...." (I so wanted to say rear-end, but I try to be a gentleman in word, if not in thought... ) I tried to explain what I said in the text, wondering the odds of it even being read...

BTW, before I saw her text, I went and took a nap, I was exhausted... I had an amazing dream...

I dreamt I was at a mechanic, who was putting the finishing touches on a car I had bought her, but hadn't told her about. It was a bright beautiful yellow, customized, with a wonderful boom-boom-boom stereo, his guys had worked hard to make every part of it perfect, I knew she was going to love it. I included about this in the message to her, saying "I was telling the mechanic in the dream about the conversation you just had with me, he was shaking his head, he was speechless comparing what he could see was in my heart for you. He could see in front of him how I had poured my heart into your surprise, and demanded he make sure everything was perfect for you, and compared that to what I told him you were saying to me.... Before I woke up, at the last moment you did something small but nice to confirm my faith in you, I was happy....." I didn't tell her what it was she had done, but in the dream, she had started texting me that she was very sorry, please forgive, etc...

I continued some other mush, and "then I woke up.. I still wasn't sure maybe your noon call was just part of the bad part of the dream, thinking I would look at my phone andsee a happier end to what is driving you today, instead I saw your text about our account.... I guess reality is a little different than I keep hoping for..."

Anyhow, a few days later, Monday of next week I think, I haven't heard much of anything from her, but thinking maybe this is something that will blow over, I am thinking about taking care of her, and I am also curious to find out if the account is empty.

So I go to the bank, and they tell me it still has the full balance in it. Hmmm.. I'm feeling pretty good.

So I try to put in an extra $100, and the bank won't let me make the deposit... What? They then tell me the account is frozen. I can't make a deposit into her old account I used to keep rescuing either, it has been changed too, but they can't give me any details.

As for the joint account, they tell me she had some other chargeoffs earlier in the year, and the loss prevention saw the new account, and froze it to put it towards the chargeoff. The day she texted she "was leaving the bank" with the money, is the day they actually froze the account, she didn't get to make a withdrawl. It would be closed in a just a few days with the bank taking the money if the other money wasn't paid. The other money is more than what I put in to start the new account... I ask the bank, I want to make sure that this is done, over with, and that because of my joint name on this account with her, they can't take money from any of my other accounts towards this, right? They assured me they could not affect any of my other accounts, and they really couldn't give me any more info about her situation on her other accounts. That's fine...

So darn it... Did she grab the money like she said, did she know it was froze, what's going on? Is there a lie in all this? Did she or did she not empty the account? If not, why did she claim she did...

I saw her the next day, or talked with her on the phone, I forget which. I told her I tried to put money in the account. She said "Why would you do that, I told you I closed it!" I said, um, a) trying to do something to take care of you in spite of any short term craziness, but also b) you didn't close it, the bank froze it because of what you owed them on some other charged off account! She starts arguing with me how the bank can't do that, they promised her they would send her a check in 20 days, they actually closed it, etc.


I try to explain to her I've seen in bank acccount agreements for years language that says "If you owe us money in any other account in your name, we reserve the right to reach into this account if we need to in order to offset any money owed in another account." At least I believe I saw that...

Anyhow, she tells me I don't know what I am talking about...

She claims she closed all her accounts at that bank. And that her boyfriend had just had some amazing problem at that bank, something about having his account frozen because some teller double deposited at $60 check, and they froze his account because it looked like fraud, and were making him wait 20 days to receive his money... (Is it common for liars to add lots of extra details, as a smoke screen? Just wondering... )

Whew... OK.. Now you know how I got to today on this. Now for the good part...

Today I find out one of my accounts at that bank is bouncing. It has had two ATM withdrawals against it at places I was not at on the 15th and 16th, but that are near her work, and her home. And a purchase at a grocery store near her house yesterday the 26th. On an ATM card with my name on it. I assured the bank I wasn't in those places on those dates, I never use my ATM card with that account. I save that account mainly for when I am out of the country, to have an extra bank account at a different bank than my main bank, in case of problems with my main bank.

I am looking frantically in my wallet for my ATM card with that bank, at first I can't find it, but then I find it, I hadn't even activated it. But the card they say was used was a different number than mine, but yes, with my name on it.

Yes, you guessed it...

It's the one that was mailed to her address... The one I was never given, that I thought was only hooked to an account that I was assured had been frozen...

The bank assures me she was also going to have a card to that account with her name on it.

Apparently when the bank froze the joint account, which was supposed to be primary on that card, they then linked my card to one of my other accounts.

I assure the bank I never received the card mailed to her address. I explain to them about the former joint account that had been frozen. I ask them to immediately shut off this ATM card I had never seen.

Note that the pin code is usually sent in a separate envelope. So that is two pieces of mail to her grandpas address that weren't given to me.

The bank demands I call the fraud department.

Of course the first thing any sane person would assume is that she is the one using the card. But we can't be sure. Was it an accident?

If you loan your car to someone, the California Highway Patrol will not allow you to then claim it is stolen, because you voluntarily gave your keys to the person (or so I was told a long time ago.) I ask the bank if there could be any kind of out like this for the other person to be using my card, where it isn't really an issue.

The bottom line is this:
* she already knew the account for whatever new atm cards we received was frozen.
* she claims to have closed her accounts at that bank
* so for a withdrawal against the card to work, where did she think the money was coming from?
* the card had my name on it, and came in a piece of mail with my name on it (even if it was sent to her grandpa address)
* there was probably a separate pin envelope alos with my name on it (also opened by someone other than me)

Several conscious decisions had to be made before even getting in the position to misuse the card. Seems really nearly impossible for it to be a "whoops"

Now we don't absolutely know it was her. Very coincidental someone else would steal it and only use it at her work and real home cities...

Of course the bank really wants to investigate this. I've already covered the overdraft, the bank is not out any money. But the branch officer insists they are, and says because I assert I didn't make the withdrawals, its already in the banks hands to deal with. If I don't call the 800 number of the fraud department, she or her manager still have a duty to report the misuse. Of course the bank won't tell me the results of the investigation or what they do.

I was tempted to confront my girlfriend with my statement, and I asked the bank officer about that, but she was kind of insistent that I don't confront anyone on it, and just let the bank deal with it.

Later I received some texts from the girl, with this signature at the end of them: "-Sharper than u think"

Anyone agree?

In codependent fashion, I'd rather confront the girl, listen directly to whatever she makes up, then cut her off myself, and not bother the bank with investigating a situation my stupidity lead to, and just leave. (She's had a lot of other opportunities to steal from me over the last year, and as far I now never had. I lost some stuff at one point, really thought it was her, and then later found those items. I felt bad.)

I've decided that based on I can't know for sure it was her, confronting her achieves nothing, especially if it wasn't her. Imagine if it was the boyfriend. The point of sale purchase might be too late, although it was yesterday, but the ATM machines are supposed to keep video of who walks up to them.

It sucks the bank won't tell me, the account owner, the results of the investigation of misuse of my account. I'd really like to know.

I think I do need to call the bank and let them deal with it. Be too bad if she ends up in jail over just under $500, I'd hope someone else gets caught, but no chance of any justice on anyone if I don't call the bank...

I know some of you are rolling your eyes at my defense attorney like "Reasonable doubt" about her being the one to be going out and withdrawing $300, then $100, emptying the account, then bouncing $80 in groceries against it.

Does anyone think it is any chance it wasn't her?

Something here is not right.

OP your first post or the title of same says should I buy my girlfriend a car or risk things being over.

Well from what you've told us, her b/days been and gone you didn't buy the car,you're still seeing her.

Wondergirl remarked on how good a writer you are. Strange...

Have you ever seen the despair inc. posters? The spoofs of the motivational posters. I saw one once that said something like:

"Maybe your life exists only to serve as a cautionary tale to others..."

Ok, just found it:
MISTAKES - It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.


Just saw an even better one, under a picture of easter island, seems to be very applicable at the moment:

PRIORITIES - Hundreds of years from now, it will not matter what my bank account was, the sort of house I lived in, or the kind of car I drove... But the world may be different because I did something so bafflingly crazy that my ruins become a tourist attraction.

The skier falling down the slope has always been a favorite of mine:

INEPTITUDE - If you can't learn to do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly.

-----

I don't have ATM written on my head, the letters for SAP are too large, not enough room for anything else. Could even be just a big giant scarlet S... I haven't lost myself esteem, today is just one of those "Oh my stars! Just when I thought this couldn't get any nuttier!" days...

I learned long ago, if you're going to complain about a bad situation, at least try somehow to make it funny, entertaining, or engaging... Yeah, I do like to write, words are my legos... And maybe, hopefully, my catharsis in all this... At least at this point I'm not broken up about the idea of leaving her behind like I might have been the other day... A good dose of "wow, I'm dodging a bullet getting out of this" is very useful... Maybe I should have saved all this for the book I will probably never get around to writing...

In what you've written here it would not be possible, why would a separate account one you used for when you work away send an ATM card to her address, that could conveniently be used without the pin or account numbers tallying up, why would another card from a different account go to her place. Sorry its not adding up, neither is your so say love for this woman you're not coming over as some heartbroken guy who drops to his knees at his controlling g/f whim.

You do write a good tale.

As you just said maybe the book will be better. Good Luck OP.

Oh, by the way, I feel very good at calling her bluff and getting through to today without caving in to buy the car. It was difficult, but I made it...

And I don't feel guilty about still offering the car idea, and making it clear it could happen if she could get her act together...

But the bank account thing, the broom just can't get that smoking gun of an elephant under the rug.

Re: bank accounts...

I have had bank accounts at this bank for over 10 years... when I met her, when we were just friends, she once called me and asked me to put some money in her account at this bank, and gave me the number, she needed some help when she was out of town. I did it, and she later returned the money... putting money in it from time to time has continued over the last year, except the returns have slipped...

I don't use the accounts I have at that bank very much, I do most of my banking with another bank. I keep the bank account open with her bank because when I travel, I would put money in it, so I have backup bank, and multiple banks with a combined daily access limit on cash while I am away...

When we opened a new account together, it was my intention to use this account for any times she needed money, and try to use it to see if we could build something together. I was fine for the address to be her address, all the cards etc. to go to her address, other than her flakiness, I have never had any inkling of her stealing from me. Taking and not returning yes, breaking promises yes, but not actual theft... It was fine to me, I fully expected to receive my atm card for the account, that I could use for deposits, and to check up on the account. I didn't see any danger to my existing accounts, I asked if the new card would be just for the new account, and they said it would be.

When a new card is sent, in a separate envelope they sent the pin.

I never received them, but the account got frozen so soon after it was opened (about a week later), when I found that out, I am not sure if I asked about the new card, maybe I just assumed it would not work anymore.

I do not know why the bank then hooked that card to one of my other accounts. Perhaps they goofed up, and made my other account (not the joint account) the primary to begin with on the card they sent her, I don't know.

It's just something extra to think about for anyone thinking of opening a joint account with someone at the same bank where they have other personal accounts. There are other threads here about people wondering about joint accounts. Here is another data point to think about.

BTW, the bank is Wells Fargo...

The key points are, someone used that card after both she and I knew the joint account we opened was closed. And the card had my name on it.

I never had any intention for a card to my personal accounts to go to her address. I assumed this card for our joint account would work separately from the card I already had for my personal accounts.

Yes I know about motivators Ive attached 2 to this post that My partner created, there's another one
"Destiny" you were meant for me as punishment perhaps"

Maybe you are trying to make the most of a bad situation however your posts aren't making sense, especially the bank account, you mention in an earlier post that at no time did she have access to your credit cards, or words to this effect.

Any discrepancy at the bank they would automatically instigate a fraud check.

I had never given her any of my personal credit cards, or bank cards... She had asked many times for me to put her name on a credit card of mine, but I've realized that wouldn't be very prudent, so it is correct I've never given her access to "my" accounts or cards. I rarely use my credit cards, I've been telling her giving her a card with a $500 limit on it, why wouldn't I just give her the $500 instead, because that's all I'd be doing as soon as it was maxed out. It makes no sense to give a credit card I am responsible for to someone who can't control cash...

But she has had plenty of chance to take something from my wallet and pants, and even my house, and I never found anything missing...

I only was interested in my name on her account, because I have allowed myself to be responsible for clearing the overdrafts, but I tired of having no visibility into the account.

Opening a new joint account, and working together to build it, hope it would help her build trust with me, use it as a teaching opportunity and hope she would learn to better manage her own account, and quit buying the bank several Red Lobster meals in overdraft fees every month... The chance to help her grow was worth the risk of a couple of hundred dollars to start the account.

Maybe the lack of chronological order to everything makes the story more difficult to follow, just the joint bank account didn't seem all that relevant before, until today's revelation from the bank.

Here is what the question is on my mind at this point:

A) follow through with fraud report to bank (80% certain I will do this)
B) chalk it up to experience, forget about it...

As for the girl, how to exit:
1) quietly disappear, just don't answer any more texts or phone calls
2) ask for my ATM card that should have went to her, see what her reaction is, then quietly disappear
3) show her the bank statement, see what her reaction is then disappear
4) give her a bland "gee this isn't working out for me" and then go away, i.e. break it off without giving any hint about the bank thing.
5) tell her about the bank contacting me without accusing her in any way, and see what her reaction is, then figure out what to do.

I suppose if I could somehow be convinced it wasn't her with the card, I might be stupid enough to continue, I doubt any excuse as to why she was using the card would convince me to stay, but obviously part of me is very curious to see what she might come up with if I call her bluff on this... Doing that may queer the banks investigation though... Obviously its hard for me to want to be involved with seeing a criminal penalty against her for all this...

And I realized a long time ago, it is extremely futile to ask a con, "Are you conning me?" Any discussion of "here is why I think you are conning me" might only help them improve their game against the next victim.

Damn it's hard to give up the illusion that she cares/cared about me...

Again thanks in advance...

You are a very talented writer. Of Fiction. But you need to make the story more cohesive by keeping the threads in line and not contradicting each other as PP has pointed out.

It is obvious you are fairly intelligent and well educated , which makes me wonder why you think everyone is going to believe this incredible tale you weave. You can fool some of the people some of the time...

I cannot believe that anyone with any insight or the merest of intelligence would put up with 1/1000 th of the indignities and financial escapades you claim to have suffered.
If this were really happening only a masochist of the most extreme degree would allow themselves to be used, mistreated, dishonored , degraded and made a fool of as you have described.
Then , go and tell who knows how many people what a fool they are.

If by some slight chance some fraction of this is true, you need serious professional help. You have no control over your life and are letting someone who has no business controlling pet behavior run your life.

To what purpose you are doing this is a mystery.
If it is to display your talent as a writer , you have done well except the incongruities in the various accounts of the events you have offered.
If it is to see how many you can fool for how long , that is yet to be determined.

But no sane person would not see the foolishness and stupidity of continuing a relationship as you have described.

To what purpose is all this directed?

In relationship to this thread, this does not make sense coming from youhttps://www.askmehelpdesk.com/relationships/conjoined-accounts-boyfriend-490156-9.html#post2453151

You do not practice what you preach.https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/workplace-relationships/there-way-stop-yourself-cheating-492146.html#post2453133

I don't have time to invent this as fiction. I'd rather learn the stock market, or write websites, or a zillion other things. I honestly don't see where the contradictions are in the story, except for lack of extra explanation, or disjointedness of multi-messages. I'm shocked that the whole thing has moved into the realm of the criminal, but maybe it's just petty theft that serve me right.

Perhaps like you say, its just so crazy, how could anyone let it go so far, or be so tied in a knot by it, that makes the whole story unbelievable.

I have had contact with a forensic psychologist in the past to help with some issues with an ex, and he said it dealing with me was a pleasure in that I was so normal. Unique, and independent, but normal.

Another psychologist had told me about my ex, before we divorced "Sir, this woman has long term problems that not even inpatient care can help. You need to resolve this situation and get on with your life."

I guess I've fallen in with another one of that type. I hate to give up on someone. I see a glimmer of normalcy, or good times, and I think OK maybe this stock is finally on the upswing, we'll be out of the woods and everything will be good.

Maybe the clue is that it doesn't matter whether she has any love for me as she keeps saying she does, (the possibility that keeps me continuing on), the rest is just so wacky and destructive and irredeemable, the love doesn't matter.

I guess I just got to accept there are more people out there who can't be helped in any substantial way than I realize.

Spending any more time with someone like this is getting me judged by the company I keep.

One of my best friends who has watched this play out over the past year, has never accused me of making up the story. But thanks for letting me know how unbelievable this all seems.

Marinizing, I guess your vote is for immediate no contact with no explanation, investigation, or anything with this person?

Sam... it's like a bad soap opera. Good or bad, some people do feed on drama in their lives, even if they don't realize it. They stay in relationships because they have a need to be needed. This is not a balanced relationship... you are not her father or her teacher.

If you aren't happy with how you have been treated, and you don't see it changing, end the relationship. Make a clean exit... tell her plain and simple that you have decided to move on, then cut your losses... no drama... don't look back... move on.

If you can't make the change.. do as martinizing suggested and get some help with it.

My vote is that it is unbelievable and professional help would be in order now regardless of having consulted a forensic psychologist in the past.

as for the girl, how to exit:
1) quietly disappear, just don't answer any more texts or phone calls
2) ask for my ATM card that should have went to her, see what her reaction is, then quietly disappear

No need to ask for the ATM card back, just cancel it, and get another. Then totally disappear from her life. You have allowed this behavior for long enough, so forget talking and take action.

Truthfully you know you can get a hooker for less than your extortionater leech is asking, telling sorry!!
at least you would get something in return. and youd also know where you stand, and you would also get a bit of rumpy pumpy as well I believe.



Actually, this is probably about the worst advice possible... I realize it was probably in jest, but...

1) That is how I met her, she was one of the most reasonable priced girls out there
2) she began telling me all about her personal life, about her custody battle for her son, and I had sympathy for a mother's love for her son. I wondered at first if it was true, but I know she isn't making this up, he does exist, the situation is as she says.
3) the sex has continued, but all kinds of other baggage has made the visits way to expensive
4) I put up with the other guy because I can appreciate her trying to do whatever she thought would be best to get her son back, even if it included this living with the other guy for a while.
5) maybe now you understand that saying to me, go get a hooker, it's probably like telling a whiskey alcoholic, "Hey scotch is better!"
6) she's my third long term girlfriend (several months +) who was some kind of adult entertainment worker at the start of our relationship
7) I cried on her shoulder about how the previous girlfriend had taken advantage of me to help the her get an apartment near my job and a college to help her go to school and give me a nice home environment on the nights I stay near my work (to avoid 3 hours of communiting). Unfrotunately that was just before her "brother" in jail, turned out to be her boyfriend out of jail needing a place to stay, and me not ever staying more than one night in the apartment I had rented for us. By crying on the current girls shoulder, I gave her way too much to use against me, I set myself up as a mark, and incited a competitive possessive spirit in the current girl. Example: today she expressed jealousy of her mother asking me for $10 saying "You could have given me that money, I'm going to tell her off"

That all should give Martinizing2 plenty more grist for his fiction and professional help vote...

This gal really does seem to be out of doing that life, other than possibly with me in the role of "the last client", or at best "the man on the side", something she said she has done at least once or twice before since she has been with the guy she is living with.

She is very stubborn and extremely rebellious to anything she thinks she is being told to do. Like the other girls, she has an extremely low frustration level. Yes, she is very concerned about her looks, in looks department, she is well above most the crowd she was running with, but she is by no means elegant.

She has complained that memory of our beginning has caused her problems many times about how she thinks about me. I have kept saying to her over the last year, if we are both out of doing that life, but we find something that works between us, does where we started really matter? Yes, apparently it does, looks like its way to hard to get out of the client/provider role no matter how much we try to relabel.

And yes, I've been tested several times for every possible disease, and so has she, even every recently, and everything came up negative, I heard her test results over the phone from Kaiser just a couple of weeks ago. For the fiction and conspiracy buffs, at least I think it was a nurse at kaiser she was calling...

It's 6am, she just called me, I just failed on the allowing her to contact me score...

She is telling me about the latest custody problems with her aunt yesterday, the aunt is trying to do parental alienation against her with her son, and the son is complaining to her. She forwarded me texts from her son of things that the aunt was saying against his mom, and him saying the aunt had threatened to whoop him if he tells his mom.

"I love my earings... they are at least 3 carats, I hope someone doesn't steal them off of me.... i love them.... I didn't even show my mom and them... i was talking on a phone with a lawyer about my aunt...."

I told her that last night I ate a couple of the store bought salads she gave me yesterday to keep for a snack...

"I got you a lunch plate for you today, crab, corn, and salad, i wrapped it and everyhting... i was going to come and see you last night, but my eyes were puffy... its too much about my son, i really want to be a parent, but it is just me runnign around.... I'm getting my clothes on, so I can roll out of as soon as he (guy she lives with) gets out of here.... stay in this area one more night, please, I miss you.... i am not going to have a bad attitude at all, zip my mouth.... thank you, for everything.... i finally figured how to take off my diamond bracelet ... i cleaned it. The clasp goes on so tight, it wont slip off."

I say good thing, I'm still making payments on it, at least let me pay it off before it gets lost. She was telling me yesterday what an important symbol it is, no one can make her take it off.

"i had a very good time with you, did you have a good time... you still my nigger if you dont get no bigger, dont take that as an insult..."

I'm white, and she is black, and this is a big joke between us. I like to respond "I'm the only black guy on my floor at work"

She has said many times, back when she was lying about her living situation, that I should just relax and go with the flow... I realize, in reality, it was she who was not relaxed and keeping a secret, that caused all kinds of disfunction that seemed confusing as random behavior. I've been open with her, but she says "well thats how you do things, but thats not how I do things. you just dont say certain things until the time is right."

She is coming for me to take her to breakfast, before she and I go to work this morning...

Not one mention of the car, maybe the problems with her son have her preoccupied, we'll see how breakfast goes...

Maybe the comment about it being the drama is most on target, the relationship sure is a challenge, a whirlwind is interesting for all the stuff it rearranges...

It would not be uncommon for someone in her position to excited by the clandestine nature of our relationship, which is a danger sign for the possibility of turning it into something more permanent, once it is just she and I, then she would be bored with it. When she was in her snitty mood yesterday, she was saying something similar to that...

Without this drama, my life otherwise might be pretty boring, go to work, go to hotel, go to work, go to hotel, go bowling, go to work, go home, work at home couple of days, pretend to exercise for a few days, have weekend, go to church, go back to work, spend every spare minute studying stock market (oh yes, day trade from 6:30 until work starts every morning) repeat process...

I hate to think it is just an attraction to the drama...

Wow man you love drama don't you?

Stop complaining how she treats you if your going to let her treat you like crap.

... I read only the first two pages and I had to respond... but really quickly, not sure if you mentioned it, how old are you two? How old is she? Is she, by any chance, 9-ish?

I'm not sure... why you're sticking around this chick... maybe the intimacy is THAT amazing... but if some sort of a hybrid Angelina Jolie/Carmen Electra/Megan Fox being treated me like this, I would have been out of there in 34.2 seconds flat.

So you have been a very good customer who pays for the attention she gives you and now you think she cares for you as you have grown to care for her.

Look John, get real, and realize your feelings have nothing to do with the business relationship, and you have fallen for the whore who provides you a service at a very high price.

She may like you as a person, and a "client", but now you want more, and it ain't happening. Recognize its you in this dumb love and not her because that's the price of doing business.

You never had a real healthy adult relationship, so stop being stupid, and pretending you do. She is living as she wants, your just to close, and too blinded by YOUR OWN FEELINGS, that you have lost sense of reality.

Leave her alone, and get it back.

I have not read every word of this, but this is not an adult relationship. This is the kind of relationship a father with no boundaries has with a very spoiled daughter. Why are you giving her an "allowance" at all? That's for kids. Is this to pay her not to work?

As far as I can tell, you like playing daddy warbucks to her orphan annie. It's no surprise that this power imbalance leads her to manipulation and begging. You are fully complicit in this unhealthy unequal relationship.

I think you need a one year time out from dating until you figure out why you need to be "the father" in a relationship with a woman. When you have worked out your issues it might be possible for you to have a respectful, egalitarian relationship with someone outside the sex services industry. At least if you want a "normal" relationship. Not clear if you do.

Flirting with the perfume lady while buying your gf's birthday present was a petty act of betrayal that apparently gave you a lift. Not clear how often you do that, but it's not a grown up solution to your problems. It's equivalent to the kinds of things your girlfriend does.

This has to be some MAGICAL BOOTY.

Why do you think so little of yourself as to be treated with such disregard? Are you a masochist?

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.

You know that this is wrong, yet you keep going back for more. WHY?

She has you buying her things, extorting when that doesn't work, and now she has stolen from you.

Go to the toilet, kneel down and place your penis on the rim, and slam the seat down on it for at least five times, hard.

If your little buddy has you getting into THESE situations, he should be punished too. And it's going to be for free this time.

I too, think that you are smart enough to know that this is a $hitty way to be treated.

If you really mattered to her, you would have been invited to the birthday party that you funded.

Move on with your life, dude.

Now I get the "Pretty Lady (Woman)" reference.

My Daddy used to tell me" if you're going to play with your butt, don't complain when your hand smells like $hit".

T

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.


Sums it up.

Wow man you love drama dont you?

Stop complaining how she treats you if your going to let her treat you like crap.

Good point... this mornings drama included her stopping by to tell me work changed her schedule two hours earlier without telling her, so no breakfast, but she did drop off nice lunch for me, and a hug, no fights, no demand for money, nothing about a car... I can't complain today...

She told me as to the birthday money, she was excited to tell me she is spending $100 of it on a new phone for wish #1 for love, "so I have a nice phone to talk to you on during the next year." The guy already gave her a phone, but she don't like, she says it is too little, so she hasn't turned it on, she showed it to me, and it is one I would have chosen for her... She really seems to like the idea in the card of spending the money towards the three wishes.

As for allowance: I am trying to help her life be easier while she tries to get on her feet. As far as I can see, with what I give her, she has more discretionary income than I have left after what I give her. Brother agrees that my problem is that I too quickly switched to giving her an amount that should have been reserved for when she was really supporting my life as a partner, not as this other on the side game.

I use the word "budget" with her which is the grownup word for an allowance (or should we perhaps more accurately call it a "salary" if it is just a services rendered relationship?), and she hates that "B" word. She likes to call it an allowance... But its real life. Money only spends once. She's quite compulsive about her spending, I tried giving it to her in monthly chunks, but she can't handle that. Her and numbers just don't seem to mix.

Says she will find a way to see me tonight, some way to sneak out... I didn't mention the bank thing...

Without the nastiness related to the car, she's actually not all that bad to deal with...

> now she has stolen from you...

Still not sure what to do on the theft other than put it in the banks hands... I have no actual proof of anything other than someone used my card sent to her grandfathers house in an unauthorized fashion near where she works and lives. Motive and opportunity... talked to the cops this morning, it wasn't quite enough to really get their interest level up, probably only a misdemeanor, but maybe also identify theft. They were willing to take a report, but agreed it is probably best to let the bank decide what they want to do on it. And even if the cops take a report, that doesn't guarantee prosecution... Going to call the bank later when I am near a fax machine, I was told there are things they will want me to sign about not authorizing the use of the card.

This isn't extortion. It's commerce.

Yep. Budget, allowance; it's all the same.

If you don't want to be the daddy's girl daddy for the rest of your life, learn how to have a relationship with a woman with a job, one she can continue to have even while dating you.

If you DO want to be the daddy's girl daddy, then you can't really complain about the results. And since you can afford to rent people, why not a rent a woman who is not already living with another man and taking care of his kid? Shop around a bit for a better rental instead of going for the low price that drew you to her in the first place.

If you want boundaries, you have to set your own and live by them and within them. They aren't boundaries you set for other people; they are yours. It sounds like neither of you has any boundaries.

Plus you don't tell her what you are really thinking and feeling. What's up with that?

Re: Budget: What other word to use for I only have so much to share without chipping away at my savings?

Is this an example of a boundary? $1000 is what I have to share with you this month. If you are a partner in helping me be more productive, great we move forward, and if not, then it ends, we go our separate ways...

Second boundary: Anything more than that, and I'm not willing to share it, unless its some kind of emergency I can verify...

Are those examples of setting boundaries for me, or someone else?

And about her living with the guy, I allowed myself to buy into the idea it was a temp arrangement she was setting up to get her son back... Unfortunately it seems more permanent than either I or her brother would have guessed.

When she is in a bad mood she is more defensive about it than would seem normal, and tells me she is not going to just live with me I want to live differently than her (cheaper furniture than the new she wants, which is nonsense to feed the argument, we can have 5 used things for the cost of 1 ikea milk crate, but hey, if she wants to spend my budget (theres that word again!) on a few high priced things instead of more things with money leftover, I'd let her make that call) but when in a good mood she asks me to get a second place closer place to my work, maybe even a studio. She's said she won't just make a leap from his place to mine, but hinted she might gradually slide from his place to mine, she was saying the other day she had boxed up some of her stuff again after an argument with him, as if ready to move... She is still very angry about him snooping through her stuff back April and early may to figure out what was going on with me and her. She complained yesterday her brother let something about me slip in front of they guy she lives with...

She tells me she treats him even worse than me. We actually sometimes get in a space where she seems aware she doesn't treat people very well, but other timess, throw it all to the wind, she's just going to treat people however and not give a FXXX she says..

So perhaps I should just be really glad I'm not locked in some unhappy lease with her. Perhaps this other guy is a blessing in disguise...

Maybe I need to really ask her again to go to counselling with me, and let a counsellor help sort things out... She came to me a few months ago and blurted out that she thought we need marriage counselling, I've asked at least a couple of times since then for us to do that or something like marriage encounter, and she has not taken me up on it.

Sorry, without reading all these pages of drama - and I'm sure that amazing people here gave you all the advice already - just want to drop my two cents and reiterate - NO, you shouldn't buy her a car, YES, you should risk things being over, and if I were you I'd make damn sure they are over effective immediately.

Good luck.

Sorry for the harshness, but you need someone to slap you upside your head to get you thinking properly.

Why are you being her doormat? The guy in her apartment is either her pimp or is F-ing her. She treats you like complete SH--! I have no idea why anyone would allow themselves to be treated this way.

You need to grow a pair, put her in her place and leave. She has NO RESPECT FOR YOU. She only wants you for the money. The girl's job is to squeeze money out of guys... How are you any different than the other clients???????? You are a walking, talking dollar sign!

Time to stop looking for talent with "potential" in strip clubs and go for some real, emotionally stable, and more respectful women.

If a girl told me that I either "buy her a car, or we are done", I would have laughed in her face, called her some choice names not mentionable on this site, and walked away.

I cannot believe the last 7 pages I've read. I think this could be the worst case of doormatitis I've ever seen here. Almost too crazy to believe.

Sorry for the harshness, but you need someone to slap you upside your head to get you thinking properly.

Why are you being her doormat? The guy in her apartment is either her pimp or is F-ing her. She treats you like complete SH--! I have no idea why anyone would allow themselves to be treated this way.

You need to grow a pair, put her in her place and leave. She has NO RESPECT FOR YOU. She only wants you for the money. The girl's job is to squeeze money out of guys...How are you any different than the other clients???????? You are a walking, talking dollar sign!

Time to stop looking for talent with "potential" in strip clubs and go for some real, emotionally stable, and more respectful women.

If a girl told me that I either "buy her a car, or we are done", I would have laughed in her face, called her some choice names not mentionable on this site, and walked away.

I cannot believe the last 7 pages I've read. I think this could be the worst case of doormatitis I've ever seen here. Almost too crazy to believe.

Doormatitis?? :D Exactly. To the OP about that Lexus I want>>>:rolleyes:Kidding

Where's the thread about waiting for the other person to break things off instead of breaking them off yourself?

In my case, I know I don't have real long to wait for the next tantrum...

Anyone want to start taking side bets on whether she'll return the engagement diamonds if I ask for them the next time she says we're over?

Where's the thread about waiting for the other person to break things off instead of breaking them off yourself?

In my case, I know I dont have real long to wait for the next tantrum.......

Anyone want to start taking side bets on whether she'll return the engagement diamonds if I ask for them the next time she says we're over?


Tell he you have another ring she'll like better. Go out and buy a I or 2 carat zirconium fake. Tell her , "Take off the other ring sweetheart, try this one". When she does get the ring and run... Just an idea.. but I'll bet it would work... If she says she's going to have you aressested it for it say.. It's my ring.

I'm sorry, I could not read all of this.
Is this a joke, are you serious? You seem to get a big kick out of looking like a fool.
If this is all true, that's what you are, a fool!
Is her stuff lined with gold or what?
What reason would any man with good sense and self respect put up with this let alone tell about it and ask if they should stay?

I'm inclined to believe this is a joke, if it is not and you are that dense, drop this woman and get some help.

So Sam you work the stock market do you, well well well. It just so happens that my husband does the same however he calls it playing the stock market.

He does it for fun or relaxation. So in view of this you'll know that at 7pm daily if a person wants they can accumalate a tidy sum, for doing nothing some days it may be 300 or 50 but these little sums of cash can really help fill your bank account.

Im sure you know what Im referring to. So do you work Wall Street? My Hubby plays the FTSE.

He sells high and buys low... Hes a stock broker and a major share holder, in many commodities.

That's why he calls it playing because he's using his own money, not other peoples.

I remember that comment about Pretty Women, how ironic...

How old are you?

Re: Budget: What other word to use for I only have so much to share without chipping away at my savings?

The other word is "Paycheck." You are paying her to treat you badly. When she asks for more, she's asking for a raise. Nothing wrong with enterprise.


Is this an example of a boundary? $1000 is what I have to share with you this month. If you are a partner in helping me be more productive, great we move forward, and if not, then it ends, we go our separate ways...

No, it's not. Here's an example of a boundary: "I'm very fond of you, Sheree, but I can't support you. I'm saving for a house I'm planning to buy. I am glad to take you out to dinner and buy an occasional small gift, but I think you need to sort out your finances on your own."


Second boundary: Anything more than that, and I'm not willing to share it, unless its some kind of emergency I can verify...

No. That's parental/financial manipulation. ESPECIALLY when you don't follow through.


she was saying the other day she had boxed up some of her stuff again after an argument with him, as if ready to move... She is still very angry about him snooping through her stuff back April and early may to figure out what was going on with me and her. She complained yesterday her brother let something about me slip in front of they guy she lives with...

This just gets worse and worse. If she can't tell him about you, it's because he would be jealous, which means she is in a relationship with him, which means you are the side guy. Your settling for being "the other man" is an example of not having boundaries.


She tells me she treats him even worse than me.
This is the good news? So you are eager to move into first place, so you'll be treated even worse?

You are responsible for choosing to be with someone who treats you badly. Why do you choose this?


Maybe I need to really ask her again to go to counselling with me, and let a counsellor help sort things out...

I recommend that you go for counseling by yourself. And don't let anyone tell you that you are perfectly normal. You are not. If the therapist says that, fire her and find another one.

I just finished reading all of this.
If this is true, you are with a hooker who is taking you for a ride and you're asking if you should stay on the bus or get off. Are you that desperate for a woman?

If this is real, I think you like drama, you like being taken advantage of and you like talking about it. What I don't understand is, how you can give sound advice on other threads yet be such an idiot here, unless you just love all of this mess, in which case you are as narcissistic as she is.

Actually, this is probably about the worst advice possible.... I realize it was probably in jest, but......

1) That is how i met her, she was one of the most reasonable priced girls out there
2) she began telling me all about her personal life, about her custody battle for her son, and I had sympathy for a mother's love for her son. I wondered at first if it was true, but I know she aint making this up, he does exist, the situation is as she says.
3) the sex has continued, but all kinds of other baggage has made the visits way to expensive
4) I put up with the other guy because I can appreciate her trying to do whatever she thought would be best to get her son back, even if it included this living with the other guy for a while.
5) maybe now you understand that saying to me, go get a hooker, it's probably like telling a whiskey alcoholic, "Hey scotch is better!"
6) she's my third long term girlfriend (several months +) who was some kind of adult entertainment worker at the start of our relationship
7) I cried on her shoulder about how the previous girlfriend had taken advantage of me to help the her get an apartment near my job and a college to help her go to school and give me a nice home environment on the nights i stay near my work (to avoid 3 hours of communiting). Unfrotunately that was just before her "brother" in jail, turned out to be her boyfriend out of jail needing a place to stay, and me not ever staying more than one night in the apartment I had rented for us. By crying on the current girls shoulder, I gave her way to much to use against me, I set myself up as a mark, and incited a competitive possessive spirit in the current girl. Example: today she expressed jealousy of her mother asking me for $10 saying "You could have given me that money, I'm going to tell her off"

That all should give Martinizing2 plenty more grist for his fiction and professional help vote.....

This gal really does seem to be out of doing that life, other than possibly with me in the role of "the last client", or at best "the man on the side", something she said she has done at least once or twice before since she has been with the guy she is living with.

She is very stubborn and extremely rebellious to anything she thinks she is being told to do. Like the other girls, she has an extremely low frustration level. Yes, she is very concerned about her looks, in looks department, she is well above most the crowd she was running with, but she is by no means elegant.

She has complained that memory of our beginning has caused her problems many times about how she thinks about me. I have kept saying to her over the last year, if we are both out of doing that life, but we find something that works between us, does where we started really matter? Yes, apparently it does, looks like its way to hard to get out of the client/provider role no matter how much we try to relabel.

And yes, i've been tested several times for every possible disease, and so has she, even every recently, and everything came up negative, I heard her test results over the phone from Kaiser just a couple of weeks ago. For the fiction and conspiracy buffs, at least I think it was a nurse at kaiser she was calling....

It's 6am, she just called me, I just failed on the allowing her to contact me score....

She is telling me about the latest custody problems with her aunt yesterday, the aunt is trying to do parental alienation against her with her son, and the son is complaining to her. She forwarded me texts from her son of things that the aunt was saying against his mom, and him saying the aunt had threatened to whoop him if he tells his mom.

"I love my earings... they are at least 3 carats, I hope someone doesn't steal them off of me.... i love them.... I didn't even show my mom and them... i was talking on a phone with a lawyer about my aunt...."

I told her that last night I ate a couple of the store bought salads she gave me yesterday to keep for a snack....

"I got you a lunch plate for you today, crab, corn, and salad, i wrapped it and everyhting... i was going to come and see you last night, but my eyes were puffy... its too much about my son, i really want to be a parent, but it is just me runnign around.... I'm getting my clothes on, so I can roll out of as soon as he (guy she lives with) gets out of here.... stay in this area one more night, please, I miss you.... i am not going to have a bad attitude at all, zip my mouth.... thank you, for everything.... i finally figured how to take off my diamond bracelet ... i cleaned it. The clasp goes on so tight, it wont slip off."

i say good thing, I'm still making payments on it, at least let me pay it off before it gets lost. She was telling me yesterday what an important symbol it is, no one can make her take it off.

"i had a very good time with you, did you have a good time... you still my nigger if you dont get no bigger, dont take that as an insult..."

I'm white, and she is black, and this is a big joke between us. I like to respond "I'm the only black guy on my floor at work"

She has said many times, back when she was lying about her living situation, that I should just relax and go with the flow.... I realize, in reality, it was she who was not relaxed and keeping a secret, that caused all kinds of disfunction that seemed confusing as random behavior. I've been open with her, but she says "well thats how you do things, but thats not how I do things. you just dont say certain things until the time is right."

She is coming for me to take her to breakfast, before she and I go to work this morning....

Not one mention of the car, maybe the problems with her son have her preoccupied, we'll see how breakfast goes.....

Maybe the comment about it being the drama is most on target, the relationship sure is a challenge, a whirlwind is interesting for all the stuff it rearranges...

It would not be uncommon for someone in her position to excited by the clandestine nature of our relationship, which is a danger sign for the possibility of turning it into something more permanent, once it is just she and I, then she would be bored with it. When she was in her snitty mood yesterday, she was saying something similar to that.....

Without this drama, my life otherwise might be pretty boring, go to work, go to hotel, go to work, go to hotel, go bowling, go to work, go home, work at home couple of days, pretend to exercise for a few days, have weekend, go to church, go back to work, spend every spare minute studying stock market (oh yes, day trade from 6:30 until work starts every morning) repeat process.....

I hate to think it is just an attraction to the drama....

I was bang on the money though wasn't I, your quote Pretty Woman, helped. You want to try to sell this as a script. On Jackanory or Playschool. It could be a seller...

Walter Mitty comes to mind along with Pinocchio.

BTW, the wrapped lunch she brought me today (Wednesday), was, drumroll, leftover crab, and corn on the cob, and some kind of salad with prawns from Sunday. She knows in the year we've been together I've never eaten shellfish, just not my thing... If I had been at the party, I would have graciously tried some of it, and maybe found something I would enjoy... But three days old? I have no idea if it was any good, I left it behind when I left my room.

Reminded me of George Carlin's skit on leftovers: "Here, eat this, it's spoiling!" or "If you dont eat this, I'm only going to give it to an animal...."

I just shake my head and wonder how someone could be so clueless... (I know you're saying, most of you are wondering more about me than her in that department... )

>This just gets worse and worse. If she can't tell him about you, it's because he would be jealous, which means she is in a relationship with him, which means you are the side guy. Your settling for being "the other man" is an example of not having boundaries.

You're right, I keep coming back to that no matter how hard I try to keep what she says in my head of how she has kept sticking by me.

Its so untenable, she has to know it, and probably explains part of the reason why she is so desperate for another trophy before the gig is up. Or maybe she is clueless enough to think the pressure tactic would work. I listen to James Lehman's "transform your child from bad behaviours, no more lying, backtalkign or acting out" and I want to call and see if he has a "transform your girlfriend" program...

I'm going to really hate pulling the plug on her... She and I have talked a lot about why is she staying in her situation if she really is so happy, or she wonders why is he still keeping her around, and all we can come up with is "comfortable and known".

Yeah, she actually pulled out the "I'm arguing with him about you that I'm going to keep seeing you, when he'd like me to give you up. I'm standing up for you..." She'll sometimes add "But I'm trying not to show any more disrespect than I already did, I did wrong, I stepped out of my box, he's disgusted with me, thats why he doesn't touch me sexually anymore, and while I think he's messing around and getting his jolly somewhere else, I dont have any proof other than a text message. But I'm unhappy there...."

Hard to figure out what she's standing up for. Whether that is or not, its exactly like what it would be to have an affair with a married woman, which was never my plan in the first place. So maybe that is an excellent example of not having proper boundaries for myself...

One of the control techniques she has used to is to isolate me from her friends, and keep my contact to a limited few she knows she can control. Carefully limit me from anyone who might tell me the true score about things. She likes to claim credit for having introduced me to her family, and some of her friends, that should show me I'm not just a client. I remember a public event last labor day, a motorcycle club function where lots and lots of custom bikes were gathered in Oakland. It wasn't even her club putting it on. She had told me she would be with her club having a booth selling food to raise money. I told her I would likely go to it to look at the bikes, but I didn't announce my exact departure for the event. I arrived, walked around, saw no booth for her club, but did see some of her club sisters passing out flyers to another event of their clubs sponsorship. They all greeted me warmly, there was small talk. Eventually my girlfriend arrived with her close posse, and eventually I ran across them, she had heard I was already there. When she saw me, it was anything but friendly from her. She was extremely angry I hadn't told her my exact movements. I had no good clue of any other guy around at that point, there were oddities, but nothing specific, and lots of "I've taken you around everything to show you nothing is going on". She has since claimed many times she never parties with him anyhow, because he can't hold his liquor, he starts bringing up the past and they get in fights... Anyhow she was really angry, but practically demanded some money. I gave her what was in my pocket, so she could party away the rest of the day... so many signs things were just sour, any one of them a good enough reason to exit.

I guess I'm conceited enough to think I could hang with her better than him if she was with me, but the reality is both he and I probably share doormatitis (maybe she's a carrier). He might be a fairly decent person, she's said many times she wishes he and I could meet so I could understand he's OK and not going to hurt her.

Its obvious, I'm just not prepared to deal with being emotionally manipulated, too much belief in the ability of people to transform themselves with a little help, too little willingness to just believe what is said when they are angry or stressed may be more true than the façade shown when they are happy and trying to butter me up. The reality I discover time and again is that few better themselves from help, help just makes their life in the gutter easier...

I've been researching for a long time trying to figure out what condition would describe her problem. Is it incurable, or is there hope. Borderline personality disorder is as close as anyone I know can figure out. I often wonder if it was compulsive lying, and if she believes her own lies.

No I've been saying to her for a long time I want a way to see this relationship getting like normal people, and she apparently just isn't into that. The message for me from her actions is be happy with how things are, don't ask for more because she finds that stressful, she's going to do what she wants strictly because it is what she wants so don't forget anything she did was because she wanted to do it, or just leave, "I'll be ok" she says.

There's a whole culture in her group on Facebook of "I'm just doing me"... For me real love can and probably should involve sacrifice, but it should be one sided, or treated cruely in return.

I already let her know I'd thought about all this, and it seems to me I need 6 months of seeing what a normal relationship could be like with her, before I would really be happy to buy her a car as some kind of celebration of a great milestone... 6 months where I'm relatively free to come and visit her at her own place, she reciprocates nicely, some other guy or his kid isn't the constant excuse on why there is a cancel, etc. we're relatively free to travel.

As for not telling her how I feel, actually I've been over most of this with her. You have all seen the answers, and no one else is fooled by them...

She was inviting me to come to her work today to visit her on her break... I did decline that...

For helping her break away from him, I have not been opposed to sharing the cost of a place with her. I appreciate what some say about making her do everything on her own first, but that's a bit harsh... As for supporting her on a place to live, I would gladly put what I spend on hotels when I'm out of town towards her rent if I stay there on the nights I am in town, and add a little more to that, where all her rent is covered, and even some spending money just so she can feel secure, and concentrate on something like schooling (I've given her money towards schooling in the last year that hasn't happened, and apparently so has he from what she says). I have no way to know if I was just being hustled. But I've actively encouraged it, bought her a lot of books on self betterment, she claims to have worked through them. Some were workbooks, I'd asked her to share with me her answers when she is done, she's told me about some answers, but never had the time to share with me. Kind of hard to remmeber to lug all this stuff to a clandestine meeting I guess...

There is almost no way for her to get her finances together and have a place of her own on $8.50 an hour in California bay area. She could share a place but that's it. But with her attitudes, it's a very rare person who will put up with her outbursts, and I think she knows that. At one point she claimed they were getting physically abusive with each other, and she was talking about a way out because she was worried it would escalate, but if any of this stuff against him is true, she's been really good at sticking with her situation in spite of it.

Before she moved in with him last November, in Sept or October I offered her a deal to support her in an apartment, plus a little bit of spending money so she wouldn't penniless. She'd have to earn most of her own spending money from a job, or find a girlfriend to share the extra bedroom, and the girlfriends rent could be her spending money. We did apply together for a place, but they turned us down, her credit must be more lousy than I realized. She never let us try again anywhere else, it was probably about that time she made her plans to get a place with the guy.



She made her choice, and I need to face that. I think the difference in birthday from last year to this year (last year I was allowed to attend her birthday party (she warned me she wouldn't pay a lot of attention to me, she'd be very busy with all the guests, and I never tripped, I actually really enjoyed watching her be a socialite), and I got to take her out on her birthday), and this year no time on those days.

I need to just decide there is too much water under the bridge at this point, and just back off and let her live with her choices...

Glad there wasn't anyone here being fooled by what she says... And not even the fiction crowd claiming maybe I was misrepresenting what she was saying, or that she had a good reason for her actions, or that no one could be this bad to some one (well OK maybe the fiction crowd might be sayting that). Just a unanimous it's a burning building fully engulfed, fire department just standing back and watching, get the heck out...

Thanks much to everyone...

She made her choice, and I need to face that. I think the difference in birthday from last year to this year (last year I went to her birthday party, and got to take her out on her birthday), and this year no time on those days.

I need to just decide there is too much water under the bridge at this point, and just back off and let her live with her choices...

Now you are starting to sound sensible.
High drama is exciting, but pain is not fun.



Very few counsellors say you are OK and don't need them. The bottom of most of their scale is "you should come in weekly, it would be a growth experience...." Ask them to give you a straight answer on how to bring closure to the counselling, you'll

I hear you. But you might be surprised. People like to be told that they are psychologically healthy and just have a few little issues. As for bringing it to a close, that's your decision, not the counselor's.

(I'm not a psychologist but I play one on television.)

Right Sam,

Stop with the play by play of how she is treating you. Not sure if you are still trying to talk yourself into it or what, but deep down you KNOW what you need to do.

Everyone has been in agreement with you, so there is no further need to share the gory details. Time to collect your toys and get out of the sandbox already. Game over.

Move on, take time to figure out why you gravitate towards this sort of relationship and allow yourself to be treated this way. Hopefully you will someday find yourself with someone mature and responsible.

You deserve better... don't settle for anything less next time.

Have to spread some rep DoulaLC but I agree.
We don't need anymore play by play. We could see the ridiculousness of it at the original post.
You know it's crazy and needs to end, so get it done. Get some self respect and back bone. Stop allowing yourself to be sucked in to relationships like this. It's so tacky, tawdry.

Been looking at all the how to have no contact threads, and didn't realize it should extend to family members of the other person, but can see the justifications there for that.

Been looking at all the how to have no contact threads, and didn't realize it should extend to family members of the other person, but can see the justifications there for that.
Be sure to read the one started by ISneezeFunny. He started it Dec. 11, 2007, and it went for two years. It's even better than War and Peace. I tell him he should get it published.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/relationships/am-doing-nc-what-about-her-161688-51.html

He's become like our son now and baby brother.

Um excuse me? Buy me another car or we're over?

Sounds like you're her bank.

Lose her.

I'm not usually blunt on here but I have never read a post which left me quite so apoplectic.

Either you are addicted to being some kind of self-styled martyr who sets himself up for a good kicking time and time again then feeds on the drama of whinging about it. Is this site somehow validating your need to be seen as the good guy? Healthy people don't make a habit of trying to save every hooker they meet by turning the transaction into a half-hearted relationship based on buying new cars for continued sexual favours which is supposed to be love.

Or you are a delusional fantasist.

Either way please get some professional help.

I know several guys with the "Captain save a ho" mentality.
It makes them feel special to go after the lowest woman they can find, do everything but eat her dirty drawers and then complain that she did not treat him like the knight he is.
Everyone of those guys I know, loves the drama of it all, don't feel secure around a normal everyday woman. They go after those they perceive to be lower than themselves.
In other words, Low Self-Esteem.

(No surprises to follow, but there is one last question... For anyone reading this who is in the middle of dealing with an emotional manipulator, or a habitual liar, I detail this, it seems a prime example of many points of how this is done... Look before you leap... Don't look for an oasis beneath a swamp... )
(And for the hecklers who think my writing this is just attention seeking on my part: No this isn't jerry springer... Think investigative journalism on my own situation, to document it, as yet another warning post for others who might be experiencing parts of this, to help them see just how bad these situations can get... Thanks for those who can appreciate how painful it is to go through this, and how journalling about it helps, trying to turn the sleeplessness and rumination in my head into something of use to others, your feedback has been helpful... )

Yesterday I spoke with an old girlfriend who is now into giving hypnosis therapy for healing. I met with her a month ago to talk to her about what is happening. She is very kind and very into loving people, but could give no benefit of the doubt to the things my girlfriend is doing. She told me my girlfriend sounds a lot like her sister, and she had to give up on trying to help her sister.

Yesterday I asked her some questions about my girlfriends weed habit. My girlfriend will claim that she only smokes $20 of weed a week. For me, just one or two puffs of a joint, plus sitting in the second hand smoke of her finishing the whole thing, will send me into lala land for about 4 hours. However, I watched as my girlfriend claims an entire blunt only gets her high for an hour. I've also watched her go through 2 or 3 blunts in one sitting. She claims she has no appetite without smoking weed, and claims she can go almost a whole day on one very small meal if she doesn't smoke weed. She frequently smokes weed to have enough appetite to eat before our restaurant dates.

According to my friend, each blunt is about $20 of weed, and someone who can smoke three in a day, and only gets high for an hour, that is very heavy usage. My friend said it isn't worth it to only have a high for an hour, weed can be good as medicine, but used as a drug the girlfriend has built up a lot of resistance. Her opinion is that my girlfriends drug habit is quite heavy. My friend said she had to kick out a boyfriend who was going through hundreds of dollars of weed a month but not working.

When I was going out with my friend 15 years ago, it seemed to me like she lived to smoke weed, and we tried to have a business together, but she was too busy dreaming on the weed to actually get much work done, and that frustrated me. I needed a do-er to help me in my business, not a dreamer. But these days she said she smokes very little (she has a pot card), and she actually feels "sloppy" when she smoked some at a concert recently. It's nice to hear that in 15 years, some people can outgrow their weed habit.

I told her about some of the insights I've gained from two or three times I've smoked weed with my girlfriend into how screwed up her head must be. Weed smokers might look like they are functioning OK, they might look like they function better than drunks, but the inside of their head must be like a house full of funhouse mirrors...

And weed is not the only habit. My girlfriend has admitted to liking to drink a lot, margaritas, patron, etc. She's a tall girl, big bones, can probably handle a lot just from that alone... She gets upset that I don't drink when we are out, it makes her feel uncomfortable she has claimed. I isn't judging anyone, no one else seems to worry whether the cranberry juice I have includes alcohol... She's been telling me recently how a former motorcycle club associate called her up to have a drink, but may have tried to drug her drink. She told me of another time she felt a little funny after part of a drink she was given, then gave it to her friend who got knocked for a loop and said, "wow, yeah smoething in that..." So she is constantly on guard for this kind of thing in the crowd she runs in. Maybe part of the reason she won't let me come and party in her crowd. What a life, huh?

Perhaps one aspect of interest in her is that her life is so different... Need to realize that is what reality TV is for, and it's free even.

Soapbox Sidebar: And no, this friend I mention was never a sex worker. She was a college student at the time, I mentored her in web publishing at the beginning of the web era, and she has been very thankful over the years for my giving her something that she supported herself with for a long time... So for those hecklers who insinuate I only know how to have relationships with those women who are less than me, shove it. Picking someone who seems to have an interested in being helped to better their life, and sharing things with them to try to help them isn't a bad thing in and of itself... Jennifer Lopez has a song "Cherry Pie" where she sings "In a strange way you turn me on.... I told myself not to fall for you because I can see that you dont follow rules, I should have just walked away, but your eyes were telling me to stay, Damn.. Why do the wild ones turn me on.. like driving fast, you ought to try it... A real rebel kind of fun, the kind I would never trust... its funny how those kind of guys have a way of getting what they want, and even good girls, eventhough they try, they just can't seem to stay away, damn, why do the wild ones turn me on"... There are plenty of songs and threads from guys who say "Some of the wildest most active sex partners I have had were the most mentally out there women I've met"... Anyhow, go listen to the song, and get another idea other than psychobabble about "low esteem" as the only reason men have a relationship with someone the rest of the world looks down on. It might be one reason, but it isn't the only reason... Off soap box... Sorry... )

So at least I have some better insights from a "professional" into to that aspect of my girlfriends life.

And she also said if I don't break this off, then she also considers me a prime candidate for serious mental health treatment.

I have followed up with the bank, and their fraud department wanted me to go to my girlfriend and find out if she had used the bank card.

I saw her yesterday evening. Coincidentally, she called me claiming that yesterday she lost a pouch containing several of her charge cards and atm cards and money. She wondered if she had dropped it off with me with some food in the morning, but there was no such pouch in the bag with the food. We rode to her job so she could check at her job to see if the pouch fell out of her purse. For 10 minutes she ranted about how she had torn her apartment apart looking for it, torn apart the dumpster, blamed the guy, wondered if I took it, and talked about how angry she was about this.

I told her that the bank had called me over some charges against one of my accounts. As soon as I brought it up, she told me I was lying. I calmly told her the locations and dates of the ATM withdrawals ("Wow, thats near where I work" she said in surprise) and the Lucky's shopping on her birthday.

She made me repeatedly explain the circumstances, amounts, dates, "How could that happen? I never asked for a card for your personal account." I explained this all happened with the card that was issued for the joint account we created. Thanks Wells Fargo for making a mess of things by hooking the card to the wrong account! Lucky it wasn't one of the accounts with real money in it.

All mail for the joint account, including both of our ATM cards, was supposed to go to her address. As I explained repeatedly to the fraud department dumbfounded by why I would have an ATM card mailed to her address, I had specified at the bank when we opened the account, the ATM cards issued were supposed to be only for that particular account, not for any of the other accounts either of us have at the bank. We wanted all mail concerning the account to go to her address (actually her grandfathers address). I wanted this to be entirely separate from my other accounts at the bank.

The bank mailed the card, and separately a PIN. Both had my name on them, and someone would have had to put them together to activate and then use the card.

The fraud department demanded that I go to the post office and file a report, and to the police department to make a report.

The bank had told me there were two attempts to activate the card. One from her grandfathers house phone, and the final attempt that worked was from the girlfriends cell phone. I did not tell her that I knew that.

She asked more than once how could someone do this? I explained how cards are activated either through use at the ATM, or over the phone. She pretended not to know.

She swore up and down she didn't access any of my accounts, she didn't receive the card. I told her I wasn't accusing her of that, I was only saying the facts that someone other than me did this, was not authorized by me to do this, and I was talking to her about it as the bank asked me to. I told her my next step was to go to the police and make a report. She said sure, go and do that.

I asked again, point blank, more than once, was there any mail for me with my name on it. "Oh no...." Any chance you could have gotten it and confused it with your own card? "No Sam, i never got a card for that account." You didn't activate any card recently? "Oh no..." The only card I used for my birthday stuff was my own card from my job, here you can listen to the bank robot say all the recent charges... "

I told her no problem, then I would go ahead and make a report to the police, and they could sort it out. I mentioned at the ATM machines there would be photos of the person, and the Lucky's store would still have the surveillance camera tapes from Monday, the police should be able to figure out who did this.

"When it rains it pours she said", and we arrived at her work where she looked all over for her pouch, and had them issue her a new payroll debit card for her paycheck access.

We then drove back to my motel room. Drammatically, she says, "OK Sam, I did get the card and I did use it. But I didn't steal from you. I didn't go wild and take a lot of money from the account." No there wasn't much to get. "I thought you sent me the card. I wasn't stealing, you are my boyfriend and I though it would be OK to use the card to get money." She said she was embarassed, that is why she didn't tell the truth right away. She used the "I was embarrassed I lost my job" excuse for lying last year about continuing to have a job at Denny's for weeks after she was fired.

I pointed out how it was wrong she didn't tell me the card arrived, she didn't tell me she was using it, and it was sent as a result of the joint account we created, that she knew was already frozen and closed. So where did she think the money was actually coming from? When did she let me know she received it, she was using it, how much she was using? Where's the communication?

She claimed she didn't really think about these things, she doesn't know a lot about how the bank works. I told her that is why if we were a couple, she should be communicating with me and relying on me about financial things.

Later she claimed she thought it was a credit card I had sent her. Eventhough the card clearly said Platinum Debit Card. Uh huh.

She promised to repay the money. Apologized, said she had trust issues. No, this is not a trust issue. This is a she can't tell the truth about what she does issue. She even called herself a habitual liar at one point.

I told her there was obviously no mystery for the police to solve, and that I didn't see a need to go to the police, I would just have to eat the loss with the bank. She kept challenging me that I could go to the police if I want, she's not afraid of the police, so what if she spends some time in jail, she would get out.

What we have here ("is a failure to communicate") is what I called the "game of 20 questions" when my oldest son was a teenager. I have seen her several times play this game: If caught in a lie, dont tell the truth until you find out just how much of the truth is known. Then adjust the story you admit to how much of the truth you think they know....

We came up with a name for it, she calls it "picking each others brain."

Here is the only question left to consider... Should I demand back the diamond engagement ring and tennis bracelet I gave her?

We discussed the return of the diamond bracelet and engagement ring I gave her on Valentines day. At the store, we discussed the issue of returning it to me if we didn't follow through. I asked the store employees about the custom of returning the engagement rings if things are broken off. Of course they were non-commital, and favored the "its a gift" theory, the theory least likely to involve them in a refund situation.

I told them it was my understanding that custom dictates the return of the engagement ring if the engagement is broken off, and asked if that was true. They kind of mumbled and agreed.

I had already given her a gift of a small engagement type ring with 3 small diamonds, a few months earlier, but didn't clearly specify conditions on it. It was supposed to be a gift for in the middle of a vacation we had planned, but she cancelled at the last minute. I should have kept the ring for a later time, but didn't.

She had been asking for a diamond tennis bracelet for her valentines day.

Regardless of custom, I told Anita that returning it if we broke up, and that it was to signify being engaged to be married, those were the conditions I would give her the ring and diamond tennis bracelet. That they were for engagement to be married, and to be returned if we break it off. I have been clear in every discussion about them, they are not just a gift. I refused to pay for them, until we were clear on it. She said she understood, and accepted them under those terms. About $3500 retail after discounts, $2500 or so still owing on it. (Recall, at the time, I knew she wasn't living at her grandfathers anymore, although she was maintaining that fiction, and hadn't told me anything about the other guy. I had heard she setup the living arrangement as a part of helping her get back custody, but that was all I knew.)

Yes, I know, I was stupid etc. I gave them as a "game changer". I knew things weren't right, that there were things she needed to tell me. It was an attempt to show her I was really serious about her, not just playing games, and wanted us to move forward if she wanted us to. I made it really clear. It was after that she started telling me more of the truth about her situation. She has told me several times that day jolted her, and she knew at that point she had to find a way to start telling me the truth, "that this was serious". She's told me several times she would never take off the bracelet, not even if the other guy demanded that, it's such an important symbol of the love she and I share. So she has plenty of awareness that it is something different than any other gift I have given.

So yesterday we discussed the return of the bracelet and ring. She asked what would she get back. I said "What is it you want back". Of course there is nothing of value to be returned to her. She then equated it to being an exchange for sex. That was never the agreement, I made it clear at the store it was an engagement set, not a payment for services, and she said she understood.

She said she would not return it, and I can't take her to court for it, what would I tell the judge she challenged? I told her I didn't see it as an issue for a judge. It's simply a matter of her word, does she have integrity.

She said, well you could also ask for my car back if we break up. No, I replied, that was a gift, I never asked her to agree to return it if we broke up.

I told her I have been very close many times to asking for the ring and bracelet back, but I know that would mean things are really over. I have noticed she didn't offer it back during our breakups, so she did give me reason to think we weren't really broken up.

We went back and forth about "it should be returned if we are breaking this off, that was our agreement" and "It's a gift, what are giving me back, you can't return all the sex."

I told her "OK, then obviously all I am is a client."

We continued discussing the issue.

She went back on the she really does love me, she didn't try to steal from, she has trust issues, etc. She also suggested again breaking things off, or did I want to still put up with her?

I told her the agreement is simple: If we break things off, then she needs return the ring and bracelet. If it is not returned, then we aren't broken off. She liked that, "Well then we will never be broken off...." Ugghhh...

This don't feel like JLo's "Cherry Pie"... Maybe she has a song to talk about the morning after indigestion...

GF claimed she would return in the morning, fix me breakfast, and we could spend a few hours together, she would try to make all this up to me. Claimed she will pay back the money, starting with $200 today, and more when she gets her paycheck. "Maybe you dont believe me, i know I say I'll pay back different things, but this time I really mean it. You can break us off, or whatever, but I will pay this back. I'll leave and you can think about whether you want to break things off with me."

I didn't have the guts to demand the bracelet back. I told her if she again gets so tired of me that she can't stand me and wants to break things off again, just return the bracelet and ring, and we can be done. It would be so much easier if she would remove the bracelet and ring and hand them back.

We have discussed this before, and she had said I would need to give back the wedding ring that I wear from her, that I bought on Valentines day for her to give to me at the same time I gave hers to her. For a long time we've tried to talk about how we are married, she started referring to us as married almost a year ago. (A couple of days ago, day after her birthday, she described what we have as an open marriage, that's what she wants.) She has told me several times she would go with me to Nevada and get secretly married to me, the guy she lives with would just have to deal with it if he found out... Fortunately, I'm not stupid enough to do that, but I would consider going for a "renewal of vows" ceremony, which doesn't require government registration. (Yeah, I can hear the laughter, "What vows? Vow to be difficult, lie at every opportunity, and take whatever she can?")

I told her "A whirlwind is interesting for all the things it rearranges as it blows through..." She didn't understand, I had to explain it to her how she is like that.

I didn't hear from her anymore after she left last night, or yet this morning, it is 6:30am... Hmmm. Just now two texts from 10pm came into my phone:
"Hey sam.. again i'm so sorry, and breakfast in the morning, good night - sharper than you think"... "good night - sharper than you think"

(Sorry, but the class clown in me really gets a laugh at the timing of her new signature '-sharper than you think'. Is she the sharpest knife in the drawer, or is she really just dull... )

Stop the insanity!! Just end it. Ask for them back if you think she will go for it, but be prepared to just eat it in the end and hopefully learn from this experience.

Do Not, repeat, Do Not get into another relationship until you have your head together on what constitutes a mature and mutually loving relationship.

E) Forget the whole thing, eat the loss on the bank account, pay the loan off as penance for being stupid.

Consider it cheap tuition at Life University.
Lesson 1: You can rent people, but you cannot buy them.
Lesson 2: You can live in a fantasyland, but you can't expect people to join you there.

Stop wrangling over a bracelet. You need to move on.

It sounds like you have her bringing you meals nearly all the time, which you either complain about or make no comment about, so I think you can consider your gifts payment for all her time doing things like that.

For those asking why have I stayed with this woman, just consider this: Some couples bounce back very strong even after extreme infidelity. There are plenty here who would say never take back a cheater. Odds are about 80% that cheating revealed will end a marriage. Why is it 80%? Very many innocent spouses can not forgive an infidel who is truly sorry and willing to work to change, because the innocent spouse is unwilling to work on change. And many infidels will always be an infidel.

And not all the 20% that continue may be that great. But the potential is there to turn out great, many that remain together do. Some counsellors recommend full disclosure, every detail, so that the innocent spouse is so angered that the anger can fuel the positive change needed in innocent spouse, and that the infidel can see the full anger and hurt, and maybe also be angered, and be fueled to make the changes needed too. I'm of the opinion that infidelity that has been ended long in the past without discovery should not be revealed, but that's sideline to the discussion.

The point is that underneath all this lying, manipulation, stealing, rebelliousness, is a strong person. Yes she's doing weak and despicable things, but there is a strength there. If that could be broken through, and she could relax, let me in her inner circle, and work to grow together, I believe she and I could be very passionate and strong. While I know it's ludicrous for her explaining her lie yesterday about the card as a trust issue, in general, she is perceptive to point out that she has a lot of trust issues because she has been hurt a lot. If I could ever help her understand how unnecessary most of those walls between her and I have been, there would be a chance for something really great. Yes, I know, there will be a whole crowd out there who will vilify me for being foolish enough to be in love with a fantasy person and not face the reality of the person who is actually in front of me, yes, it's silly to put much faith in the part of my girlfriend who comes and says "At the end of the day I really do love you, no matter what you or anyone else thinks, anyone else thinking something only has what they hear from you, you really are my best friend, I don't have that with the guy I am living with, your the best person in the whole world, right next to my grandpa, I share everything about my life with you...." But trying to stick with someone you have made a marriage commitment to, and try to help them, for better or worse, that is the vow... For some, it works out great.

Yes, I know she and I aren't actually married, I don't have to, and should not, put up with all this stuff. I should not leap forward into an actual marriage. Trust me, I'm not thinking of anything like that. Yes, I know there are a lot of danger signs here that this woman is not one who is likely to be part of the 20% or come out better for the experience.

But a long time ago we did make a commitment to be married. What that means more than "sticking together", I really can't define anymore. Is it even an "open marriage" as she said the other day? I really don't know. There isn't nearly the cooperation, the drive to fix things, as there should be. Hiding behind "trust issues" as an excuse for theft and lying about it, is ridiculous. She said "I didn't steal from you", and I've always said "How can you steal from me what I would have willingly given you if you asked".

I am not sure what hope I have for any dream or future at this point, other than maybe see her finish growing up.

But short of detox, rehab, major counselloring, and real personal effort, on both our parts, it is hopeless... A relationship can't be fueled entirely on patience of one partner, and just crumbs from the other...

This morning, I decided to do some research on this issue of whether the items given in an engagement should be returned. Things are different among different states, so after reading about different theories "gift theory", "given in anticipation of a future event that if called off requires return of all property", "who called it off decides whether the ring goes back", etc. I then looked at California law.

California law says:
California Civil Code Section 1590:

Where either party to a contemplated marriage in this State makes a gift of money or property to the other on the basis or assumption that the marriage will take place, if the donee refuses to enter into the marriage as contemplated or that it is given up by mutual consent, the donor may recover such gift or such part of its value as may, under all of the circumstances of the case, be found by a court or jury to be just.

Another article:
California Divorce and Family Law: Engagement Rings and the Law (http://oc-divorce.typepad.com/california_divorce_and_fa/2006/02/engagement_ring.html)



OK folks... What do you think I should do in regards to the ring and bracelet?

A) Return the engagement ring and bracelet we're over. "What are you getting back? You get to keep what you took from the card that I did not authorize, and I wont report it to the police."

B) Offer her an extra $500, plus no payback, giving her a cool $1000 in return for the ring and bracelet.

C) Just go to the police, file the report...

D) File lawsuit for return of the ring and bracelet... Waste thousands on trying to recover it...

E) Forget the whole thing, eat the loss on the bank account, pay the loan off as penance for being stupid.

Would anyone bother with one last try to get back the ring and bracelet? How much would you offer?

I liked the comment about "Try this replacement zirc ring? Here let me hold your ring while you try this one on..." Rich!. A replacement zirconium tennis bracelet actually might be a compassionate offer, letting her still have something to wear to save face and not face friends asking "Where did your bracelet go?"

A meal she brings is about 3 times a month, restaurants I take us to are about 2-3 times a week... There was plenty of cash along the way, making those the most expensive meals I ever bought even if I get the diamonds back...

Yeah, I will be happy when this is over... Just hate the thought of the student loan for the remainder of the bracelet and ring, it's the most expensive jewelry I have ever given... (Well, OK, maybe 2nd after the car she already got... )

Just eat all of it. Take it as a lesson learned. Tell the woman you're done, go NC and be done with this madness.

She sounds smart, self reliant, and capable. And I don't doubt you care for each other. But her values are street values of opportunism and craftiness. She is used to looking out for herself because no one else does. You seem to feel that you can (a) shape her into the softer, middle class person you want her to be and (b) subordinate her.

You are failing at both of those. It's ironic that the very thing that makes it impossible for you to do those things (her strength) also makes you want to keep trying to make her into what you want. If you really want a woman who will do things your way, you will have to settle for one who is weak in some important way. Otherwise, be prepared to take a woman pretty much as she is.

EDIT: Read GB Shaw's Pygmalion. (NOT my fair lady)

She sounds smart, self reliant, and capable. And I don't doubt you care for each other. But her values are street values of opportunism and craftiness. She is used to looking out for herself because no one else does.

Bingo! Thank you! She has said exactly that last sentence you wrote.

I am very attracted to the intelligence she has. And frustrated it is being so misused. I get a chuckle when she says things like "Take that out of the equator" meaning equation. With some education, oh the potential...

This is not the time for me to be reminded of her good points, but thank you very much for the reminder, very well put.



You seem to feel that you can (a) shape her into the softer, middle class person you want her to be and (b) subordinate her.


Maybe a little. But actually I am more intrigued by how to help her use her strengths in a better direction. Channel, not so much prune... Like a Ferengi, I smell profit in the wind...

I once said to her when she was begging for $1000 rims last year almost right after getting the car, "What if I am broke after I buy those new rims you want." She said "Then you can pimp me out...." She was willing to say anything to get those rims.

She has a fallback mode of street values. I'd never pimp her out... I'd be very heartbroken if she decided to go back to that, but I wouldn't necessarily leave her for that, it would depend on if it was for necessity or luxury. I would admire willingness to do it for dire necessity if there was no other way, but despise it if just for luxury... The thought in my mind is if she and I could work together, she would never have to have that as a fallback... if only that drive to succeed could be channelled in a legal direction.. Wow!

As one guy said, "It's a sad man who can't find his wife at least three jobs so she can support him while he is semi-retired...." :D



You are failing at both of those. It's ironic that the very thing that makes it impossible for you to do those things (her strength) also makes you want to keep trying to make her into what you want. If you really want a woman who will do things your way, you will have to settle for one who is weak in some important way. Otherwise, be prepared to take a woman pretty much as she is.


Excellent summation... That's probably the mode I've fallen into for the last couple of months... Try to take her the way that she is, and see if I can do well enough at that that she would migrate in my direction as the only man willing to do that, and give me the focus that she is giving elsewhere.

Extremely risky... I realized a long time ago her telling me to "Relax" feels like skydiving without a parachute...

Sam,

So what do you want to know? What do you want to hear from people? Are you looking for someone to say, "Hell, yes....you can break through to her inner circle and all will be bliss! Forget all the deceit, ultimatums, and broken trust. All of that will magically vanish, she will be a new woman, your heart (and finances) will be healed, once you are able to just get her to see how great it all can be!"

You spout how you keep giving her chances, that she really is so wonderful under all the mess, and then you go on about finding out how to get her to return the ring and bracelet.

So which is it going to be? Are you staying and trying fix her to fulfill your need for drama and to be needed, or are you going to see it for what it all is and take a chance to move out of your comfort zone and find someone who is an equal. Perhaps that thought is too frightening. Maybe you like having a pet project.

I don't doubt that you care for her and have some need to want to help her... but what you are doing isn't really helping her at all. You are only allowing her to continue as she has been and will continue to be. I think you feed off each other. You manipulate each other and now you have this little dance going.

You may really love her, or the thought of what you think it could be, but that doesn't mean you are right for each other.

As far as the ring and bracelet... sounds like more drama deciding how you should handle it. Either you want to be with her or you don't... make up your mind. Forget the jewelry.

She's tired...

I'm tired...

> isn't really helping her at all. You are only allowing her to continue as she has been

I have come to realize that. Continuing as she has been doesn't meet my needs, but worse, it is not her progressing either. Trust issues in the first few months I can undertand. But to hear the embarrassment excuse a year after I first heard it, and was very gracious, encouraging, and tried to make the point then "look how unnecessary that was", and all the other incidents handled with control in between, she still doesn't get it, that doesn't speak to teachability. Intelligence without teachability is like a supercomputer with no programming. It just wastes electricity, space, and heats up everything around it for nothing.

There is a difference between patience and self control, and being a doormat. Some say I should yell at her to put her in line, but I'm not going to do that. She misinterprets trying to be calm and work with her as being weakness. Maybe that can not be unlearned.

Is the gold in the pan too small compared to all the pyrite?

Is she really interested in a relationship, or not? Only she knows in her head. She knows how to say all the right things to make it seem like she does. I can't complain about any lack of her saying the right things, at least when she's not upset.

BTW, who likes the movie Trading Places. Maybe that is applicable as any. Except I haven't made any $1 bets about her.

Well I'm confused and I just could not read past yesterrdays drama. Is this the same woman that demands the car or she's leaving? And now there is a bracelet and a ring?
I'm not understanding why the conversation is still going on.
I am once again in agreement with DoulaLC sorry have to spread some rep.
"As far as the ring and bracelet....sounds like more drama deciding how you should handle it. Either you want to be with her or you don't....make up your mind. Forget the jewelry."

Yes, same girl...

Damn this is confusing...

I read her the


She sounds smart, self reliant, and capable. And I don't doubt you care for each other... She is used to looking out for herself because no one else does.


And she agreed 100%. She didn't like I was getting feedback here, she don't care what anyone thinks.

We had a great morning... A little bit of fuss...

She talked how she hates how we met, and that we crossed the line... How one of her friends in her old line of work told her six months ago she should not have done that... My saying I was tired of that life of different girls all the time, I wanted to settle down. We met how we met, the real question I been asking all along is: Can we go anywhere from here? Do we want to?

Talk about just being friends, taking time apart... Talk about her home life, "you may not believe me, but" , sharing her frustration... Agreeing we have been each others best friend... Me offering to step back so she can get right with the guy she lives with, her saying that will never happen, he's not her best friend... We talked about why he keeps her around, she thinks it is for comfort, she is sure he is making hints about moving on from her.

Despite no car for her birthday, she can say she is still with me.

Yesterday, without prompting, she offered to promise to quit using the "We're over" thing, she sees I don't deal well with that.

During the fuss she talked how she couldn't just move on to me she would still be unhappy. She's not sure if her unhappiness is due to being torn between both of us.

She kept making the point that she has done so much more for me than the girl who got an apartment out of me, and I could not disagree. I told her that girl. Among other visits, did give me an overnight visit every week were we had a nice evening. I reminded my girlfriend she and I used to do that when we first got together, and she had kind of forgotten. I agreed with her that she had done more to bring me around her family, and her life.

After the fuss though, a genuine nice time, even talk about how the future could be better, how she could transition out of her current situation into something less stressful. How I know she needs some time on her own to decompress in the middle and not have someone living with her full time, I'd just come and visit a couple of times a week, and wait until she was more ready to say "I want you around more..." She was even willing to imagine it with me.

We talked a lot of this while she was doing laundry, and she offered to do some laundry for me today.

I even got to talk to her about the possibility of a less stressful living situation, would she consider getting clean from weed, and that reminded of her of her son.

After things were calm, she asked me what they are saying here, and I told her everyone says we should be finished and that I'm crazy. She saw this topic up on my screen, and said she's given up on cadillac, her mechanic friend talked sense into her. She's now willing to consider honda. Even willing to consider the Honda LX I found for her. She just asked that the car have enough room for her, she's tall, long legs, still wants to have enough room in the back when her drivers seat is pushed all the way back.

Her mom is excited that her mom and I have been planning to go on a casino bus for a day visit to a casino on Saturday. I'm so glad the bank stuff has come out and been dealt with, I didn't want to have to cancel on her mom because of going NC.

Any advice about how to roll with a manic depressive, or bipolar? She's frequently said that is what she is... I guess I should look for some forums on that.

I have been asking her the last two or three days to get us into anger management class. I used to have very fiery temper, but I've learned to calm it through church. I've been going back to more temper because of being around her, but realize I don't want to go in that direction... I told her I went off on someone, really went off, partially to feel what she must feel like all the time, and she said that is what it is like... I told her why that is bad, if the other person doesn't slug you sooner, the bad chemicals pumping into your body will kill you later...

But I even got to talk to her about the idea of us finding a church to go to, and why I think that can be the best cure of all for most of what ails humanity. She didn't object to the idea or argue about it.

She actually got relaxed enough to be yawning...

If we had one or two days like today every week, and at least 50% less issues about openness, and not had that threat, I would never have come here.

If we had one or two days like today every week, and at least 50% less issues about openness, and not had that threat, I would never have come here.

Go back and read all that you have written. There is a bigger problem here than communication.
I think you are fooling yourself and she is working you.
You are addicted to all of this drama and you will put up with it until your are drained dry.

Good Luck!

If your going to be a punk, be a good one, and give her what she wants, and spend all your time, money, and sanity on your HO!!

You can afford it.

if your going to be a punk, be a good one, and give her what she wants, and spend all your time, money, and sanity on your HO!!!

You can afford it.

I can't believe all this has gone on and you still have doubts?

I can't believe all this has gone on and you still have doubts?
;)
I just can't believe it has gone on.:rolleyes:

;)
I just can't believe it has gone on.:rolleyes:



What a mess!:rolleyes:

Oh just buy her the car already, then take your penis out, put it in her hand, and let her lead you around like a puppy.

You can't handle the truth, and the truth is, she's using you. Whenever you question it, she finds some sob story to keep you around, you buy it, and then she has you back to doing what she wants. Want proof?


She saw this topic up on my screen, and said she's given up on cadillac, her mechanic friend talked sense into her. She's now willing to consider honda.

Oh she's so sweet, she's willing to give up the cadillac and accept a honda. Boy is she a keeper. She's such a giver. How could you ever have doubted her? This is sarcasm, just in case you didn't know.

Do what you want, you're not listening to our advice. Be used, let her drain your bank account dry, at which point she'll hop in her honda and move on to the next sucker.

Good luck. You need it!

Yes, I'm being harsh. Did it work? Are you seeing the forest for the trees now or are you still blinded by her?

What a mess!:rolleyes:

To be clear.

I do not believe it took place anywhere but in his imagination.

This is a project for school or research or for his amusement. It is a work of fiction.

Oh just buy her the car already, then take your penis out, put it in her hand, and let her lead you around like a puppy.

You can't handle the truth, and the truth is, she's using you. Whenever you question it, she finds some sob story to keep you around, you buy it, and then she has you back to doing what she wants. Want proof?



Oh she's so sweet, she's willing to give up the cadillac and accept a honda. Boy is she a keeper. She's such a giver. How could you ever have doubted her? This is sarcasm, just in case you didn't know.

Do what you want, you're not listening to our advice. Be used, let her drain your bank account dry, at which point she'll hop in her honda and move on to the next sucker.

Good luck. You need it!

Yes, I'm being harsh. Did it work? Are you seeing the forest for the trees now or are you still blinded by her?

Alty... LOL... :D... you're right:cool:

To be clear.

I do not believe it took place anywhere but in his imagination.

This is a project for school or research or for his amusement. It is a work of fiction.

My gut is saying he's trolling too, but just in case he isn't, I'll give him advice on what he's claiming is going on.

This sounds like a movie of the week, but sadly, it's possible that there is a girl like this out there, and there is a fool like him willing to do whatever she wants just to stay with her.

I've seen worse on here that turned out to be true. ;)

My gut is saying he's trolling too, but just in case he isn't, I'll give him advice on what he's claiming is going on.

This sounds like a movie of the week, but sadly, it's possible that there is a girl like this out there, and there is a fool like him willing to do whatever she wants just to stay with her.

I've seen worse on here that turned out to be true. ;)

I want a Lexus... Just saying:)

His story is so confusing and just silly I find it hard to believe. Just when you think he's done, he comes out with two more pages.
If its fiction, it's not even good fiction.
If it's real, he is a sad person.

Sad. I cannot imagine ANY woman who could be this cold.

SB. I would request that you get artistic , like Van Gogh.

Really show her something cut ,off a body part and send it to her wrapped in a bloody rag.

Van Gogh cut off his ear.

For the character in your story,

There is a much more appropriate part to cut off and send her.

Maybe in the next chapter?

Well there are some women out there that are pretty nasty. Some real B****es there but I cannot imagine a grown man being so gullible unless he's hard up, off the box or addicted to drama.

SB. I would request that you get artistic , like Van Gogh.

really show her something cut ,off a body part and send it to her wrapped in a bloody rag.

Van Gogh cut off his ear.

For the character in your story,

There is a much more appropriate part to cut off and send her.

Maybe in the next chapter?


MartyZ.. I agree. She's probably already done that!:eek:

Have we had enough? I have, and I doubt the advice will change much from what has been said.