Hello Everyone,

Does a Christian have God's approval to end their life if the are terminally sick?


Thank you,

Hope12

I don't know. Personally I think that is between the individual and GOD

I don't think anyone has the right to take their own life. However, I am not opposed to someone being made comfortable if they are suffering.

Do I think that if someone did choose to end their suffering that they would automatically go to hell? No way. As long as they have put their trust in the Lord Jesus Christ there is nothing they can do to lose their salvation.

I don't think anyone has the right to take their own life. However, I am not oppossed to someone being made comfortable if they are suffering.

Do I think that if somone did choose to end their suffering that they would automatically go to hell? No way. As long as they have put their trust in the Lord Jesus Christ there is nothing they can do to lose their salvation.

Hello,

I agree that no one has the right to take their own life. To be made comfortable is good however I believe that to take a persons own life or even a doctor taking a life of someone terminally ill is wrong and not approved by God. I do not believe hell to be a place of eternal tourment but -the common grave that all people who die go -to.


Thank you,
Hope12

Palliative care.

Anyway, I think we should all do our best to love and comfort individuals that are sick and ill.

The thing is medicine and medical science have so many medications and other ways to comfort people in pain so it is not has hard.

Never want to see anybody suffer but people do get sick or ill and grow older with more health problems.

For myself personally to be kept alive by a machine if that is the only thing that is keeping me alive. Do you think my wishes of pulling the plug and letting me go. Do you think that means I am going against Gods wishes?

I think there are so many grey issues that could come up with this debate. You can certainly feel for the family involved or people involved in care to carry through with the wishes of somebody.

You know what though, we are NOT to JUDGE. Whether God is understanding of it or not, or is it wrong or not. None of us will really know will we.

The bible does not give us the right to take our own life, the body we are told is the temple of the holy spirit, so taking ones own life is against God's will.

The bible does not give us the right to take our own life, the body we are told is the temple of the holy spirit, so taking ones own life is against God's will.





God gave us life and when he's ready to take us it will be his choice not ours.
Trust in him and know he makes no mistakes. You are in my prayers and I wish I could give you words of comfort. Blessings... Kit:)

The bible does not give us the right to take our own life, the body we are told is the temple of the holy spirit, so taking ones own life is against God's will.
So is watching porn and masturbating if you go with the "body being God's temple thing" I don't think God is thrilled with that either. We do a lot of things that abuse the temple. Over eating being another one. Some could say controlling conception is abusing the temple too.
When terminal people are suffering I see no problem with easing them in to death, which is a continuation of life when you think about it. But that's between that person and God.

Some could say controlling conception is abusing the temple too.
Having baby after baby, being pregnant multiple times, is abusing the body too plus depriving each child of individual attention and parenting.

Some could say that getting perms and wearing makeup and using hair color and painting one's nails are all abuses of the body.

So is watching porn and masturbating if you go with the "body being God's temple thing" I don't think God is thrilled with that either. We do a lot of things that abuse the temple. Over eating being another one. Some could say controlling conception is abusing the temple too.
When terminal people are suffering I see no problem with easing them in to death, which is a continuation of life when you think about it. But that's between that person and God.




Homegirl... yes those things are wrong... but the OP was speaking of someone taking a life if they are terminally ill. I don't think it's up to anyone to take their life. God has a plan... none of us know what it is..
I certainly am not questioning your beleifs.. but God is in control and he should be the one who takes us home when it's our time. Blessings to you... :)

Homegirl...yes those things are wrong...but the OP was speaking of someone taking a life if they are terminally ill. I don't think it's up to anyone to take their life. God has a plan...none of us know what it is..
I certainly am not questioning your beleifs..but God is in control and he should be the one who takes us home when it's our time. Blessings to you...:)
I think it's even more than that. Being sick and even dying and how one handles those two situations can be a powerful witness to the walking-around living. I was in the hospital three times last fall, and could tell you stories until the cows come home. Pull up a chair... :)

I think it's even more than that. Being sick and even dying and how one handles those two situations can be a powerful witness to the living. I was in the hospital three times last fall, and could tell you stories until the cows come home. Pull up a chair.... :)

It's hard to sit and watch someone die... I know... I prayed for God to please let my Dad live. I prayed with everything I had. When he finally took him home.. it took me years to realize he took him to his reward. He wasn't in constant pain anymore. God took him when it was time. Thanks WG... I hope we get to share some of our stories someday... Hugs and love to you... Kitty

I agree that how we handle death and illness can be a witness to the living but I also believe that if you don't have the whatever it takes to suffer, what you chose to do is between you and God.
And to use the "body is God's temple" excuse doesn't wash because we do a lot of things that abuse that temple, including having more kids that we can take care of.
I believe the body is God's temple, but we cannot say that applies to one instance and not another. We don't have the power or the right to pick.

I would like to think that if I were in that position that I could go gracefully or if someone close to me were, they could go gracefully, but if they cannot, if they have had a talk with God who am I to say what God's answer was. I am of course only speaking of terminally ill people.

terminally ill people.
We're all terminally ill. The minute we're born, we're on our way to the grave.

I have a very high pain threshold. What might hurt you might not phase me. So suffering is relative.

[QUOTEI would like to think that if I were in that position that I could go gracefully or if someone close to me were, they could go gracefully, but if they cannot, if they have had a talk with God who am I to say what God's answer was. I am of course only speaking of terminally ill people.[/QUOTE]




I've always said if I were in a terminally ill state I wouldn't want to linger.. but I wouldn't want to take my life. I know God has a reason for me being kept alive even though I would be in pain. I would hope I would go into a coma as my dad did and wake up in heaven. I think suicide is a sin.. it's making decisions for yourself that only God should make... Hugs Homegirl... Kit

even though I would be in pain.
Actually, you probably wouldn't be in pain. There are some very lovely pain meds out there now. Very lovely. If you're in pain, it might be more emotional or spiritual, rather than physical -- if you are even aware of what's going on.

Suffering is relative, but I would not say that to a young person suffering and at the end of life.
Yes we are all dying but I would not say that to a person with pancreatic cancer in pain and at the end of life.
I don't think there is anything wrong with easing that kind of pain if that is what that person has asked, and who am I to say that person did not have their talk with God?
One thing about God He deals with us where we are and individually. What He holds one person to, he may not the next one.
I know that life is sacred and I respect the sanctity of life, I'm just saying there are times when things may be between one person and God.

Actually, you probably wouldn't be in pain. There are some very lovely pain meds out there now. Very lovely. If you're in pain, it might be more emotional or spiritual, rather than physical -- if you are even aware of what's going on.
And if that is the case that is fine!
I don't think people ought to have to suffer like that if that suffering can be eased. I guess that is what I'm saying. People ought to be able to die with dignity. There is noting dignifying about unnecessary pain unless that is their wish.
Only God knows the heart of man and only He knows how much we can bear.

I think the Bible is the same for all of us. He didn't make a different set of rules for different people.

Lets just agree to having different ideas. You and I have a right to have different opinions. Blessings... Kit

Let me put this question another way, Is murder against Gods will? Is suicide the same as murder?

Let me put this question another way, Is murder against Gods will? Is suicide the same as murder?





I think murder is against Gods will and if you commit suicide it is taking a life.. your own and that is murder. What do you think?

Is murder against Gods will?
Is killing in self defense murder?

Is suicide the same as murder?
Will God understand and forgive suicide if someone is in insufferable pain with a terminal illness?

Is being mentally ill and committing suicide forgivable?

Murder is when you kill somebody else and you have somebody else's blood on your hands.

Not yourself.

Many people are brought up and taught that if you commit suicide then your automatically placed in hell. The thing is there are many things that are discovered now about suicide, like mentally ill, problems with the brain and chemical imbalances and so much more.

Murder is when you kill somebody else and you have somebody elses blood on your hands.

Not yourself.

Many people are brought up and taught that if you commit suicide then your automatically placed in hell. The thing is there are many things that are discovered now about suicide, like mentally ill, problems with the brain and chemical imbalances and so much more.

Exactly!

Hello,

I agree that no one has the right to take their own life. To be made comfortable is good however I beleive that to take a persons own life or even a doctor taking a life of someone terminally ill is wrong and not approved by God. I do not believe hell to be a place of eternal tourment but -the common grave that all people who die go -to.


Thank you,
Hope12

Hope12,

And what authority do you use to base your beliefs? Out of curiosity.

Hope12,

And what authority do you use to base your beliefs? Out of curiosity.

She is a Witness. The interpretation of what Hell is.

I think the Bible is the same for all of us. He didn't make a different set of rules for different people.

Lets just agree to having different ideas. You and I have a right to have different opinions. Blessings...Kit
I didn't say He has a different set of rules for different people. I said he deals with us individually. There are things He may lead one person to do and not another.
But I will respectfully agree to disagree.

I didn't say He has a different set of rules for diferent people. I said he deals with us individually. There are things He may lead one person to do and not another.
But I will respectfully agree to disagree.

Also many people interpret the bible in many different ways but the bible is written in a way which it calls people in different ways. It is not as black and white like a lot of people like to believe it is. I agree with you Homegirl.

Joe

Hope12,

And what authority do you use to base your beliefs? Out of curiosity.



One of the prayers I learned growing up said Jesus descended to hell and on the third day he rose again.
Well if he descended to hell, does that mean Jesus was in hell or the grave. Also Jesus spoke to the thief as they were dying on the wood, was what? Today you will be with me in Paradise. Does that mean Hell is paradise lol.?

Jesus descended to hell
Lutherans (and other Protestants?) -- Jesus visited Hell to proclaim His victory over death
Jehovah Witnesses -- Jesus was in the grave

Hope12,

And what authority do you use to base your beliefs? Out of curiosity.

Hello,
God's word the Bible. No greater authoity can be found.


Hope12

Murder is when you kill somebody else and you have somebody elses blood on your hands.

Not yourself.

Many people are brought up and taught that if you commit suicide then your automatically placed in hell. The thing is there are many things that are discovered now about suicide, like mentally ill, problems with the brain and chemical imbalances and so much more.

Hello,


Definition of suicide and murder:
su•i•cide   
1.the intentional taking of one's own life.
2. a person who intentionally takes his or her own life.
3. . to kill (oneself).
4. The act or an instance of intentionally killing oneself.


mur•der   /ˈmɜrdər/ Show Spelled[mur-der] Show IPA
–noun
1, to kill by an act constituting murder.
2. . to kill
—Related forms
self-murder, noun
self-murdered, adjective

3. n. 1.The unlawful killing of one human

4. To put an end to; destroy: .

To my understanding: “ Suicide is self-murder.” Having said this , remember what Jesus told the criminal dying next to him, found at Luke 23: 39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.:” KJV

Friends and families can take comfort in knowing that this man was unrighteous—a lawbreaker rather than a distraught suicide victim, guilty by his own admission. Why would Jesus say this to a terrible criminal? For what purpose will God awaken this criminal? So that He mercilessly can hold his past sins against him? No, for Romans 6:7, 23 we are told: “7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.” 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” KJV

Jesus died for all mankind. Families and friends of a suicide victim then can take comfort in reading Psalm 103:10-14 says: “10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities. 11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him. 12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us. 13 Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him. 14 For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.” KJV

Only God can fully understand the role of mental sickness, extreme stress, even genetic defects, in a “suicidal crisis,” The National Observer noted, “is not a lifetime characteristic [but] often a matter only of minutes or of hours.” Eccl. 7: “7 Surely oppression maketh a wise man mad; and a gift destroyeth the heart.” KJV
Someone who takes his own life deprives himself of the opportunity to repent of his self-murder. But who can say maybe that one driven to suicide might have had a change of heart his fatal attempt failed? Some murderers have changed and earned God’s forgiveness during their lifetime.—2 Kings 21:16; 2 Chronicles 33:12, 13. What about Manasseh and other’s such as King David? God, by means of Jesus death paid “a ransom in exchange for many,” It is within his right to extend mercy, even to some self-murderers, by resurrecting them and giving them the precious opportunity to “repent and turn to God by doing works that befit repentance.”—Matthew 20:28.

As far as the one who rashly took his own life is concerned, we humans cannot judge as to whether he will get a resurrection or not. How reprehensible was he? God alone searches our hearts and our thoughts.’ 1 Chronicles 28:9 We can be confident that ‘the Judge of all the earth is going to do what is loving, just, and right! Genesis 18:25. Who are we that we should judge?

Hope 12

Is that not what I said in my own words.

Except the self murder. That is twaddle talk.

Hope... You are in our prayers... Kit

One of the prayers I learned growing up said Jesus descended to hell and on the third day he rose again.
Well if he descended to hell, does that mean Jesus was in hell or the grave. Also Jesus spoke to the thief as they were dying on the wood, was what? Today you will be with me in Paradise. Does that mean Hell is paradise lol.???

Hello,

Hell when translated correctly means grave not a fiery torment,

The word “hell” to translated from the original Hebrew and Greek, Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (1981, Vol. 2, p. 187) says: “HADES.. . It corresponds to ‘Sheol’ in the O.T. [Old Testament]. In the A.V. of the O.T. [Old Testament] and N.T. [New Testament], it has been unhappily rendered ‘Hell.’”
Collier’s Encyclopedia (1986, Vol. 12, p. 28) says concerning “Hell”: “First it stands for the Hebrew Sheol of the Old Testament and the Greek Hades of the Septuagint and New Testament. Since Sheol in Old Testament times referred simply to the abode of the dead and suggested no moral distinctions, the word ‘hell,’ as understood today, is not a happy translation.” Job prayed to go to hell, if that is true, did Job what to be tourmented? PJon 14:13
Job 1: 8 “And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?” Why did Job go to hell if he was perfect and upright?”

Because of the way that the word “hell” is understood today that it is such an unsatisfactory translation of these original Bible words. Webster’s Third New International Dictionary, unabridged, under “Hell” says: “fr[om].. . Helan to conceal.” The word “hell” thus originally conveyed no thought of heat or torment but simply of a ‘covered over or concealed place.’ In the old English dialect the expression “helling potatoes” meant, not to roast them, but simply to place the potatoes in the ground or in a cellar.
Just something to think about if Hell is a fiery place torment.

Hope12

Hope...You are in our prayers...Kit

Thank you we all need to pray for one another.

Hope12:)

You still do not get it hope. I am talking, sharing and discussing.

Your so rigid in your thinking that there is no room for discussion.

You still do not get it hope. I am talking, sharing and discussing.

Your so rigid in your thinking that there is no room for discussion.

Hello,

Maybe you can enlighten me? If I am so rigid in my thinking and you are so broad minded, you relize that all I am doing is stating Bible facts. Bible information is always open for discussion with me. What I understand I am sharing with others. That definitely I am sure leaves it open for more discussion.
Hope12

She is a Witness. The interpretation of what Hell is.

Hello

It is not my interpretation but what the scriptures say when translated from the original Hebrew and Greek text.

Hope12

Maybe you can enlighten me? [snip] all I am doing is stating Bible facts.

Me too.

The man in Luke 16:24 cries: ". . .I am tormented in this FLAME."

In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting FIRE,. . ."

Revelation 20:15 says, " And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE."

In Luke 16, Jesus Christ gives a frightening picture of hell:

22.. . The rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. (Luke 16:22-28)

In Mark 9:46, Jesus Christ says about hell: "Where THEIR WORM dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

Me too.

The man in Luke 16:24 cries: ". . .I am tormented in this FLAME."


In Luke 16, Jesus Christ gives a frightening picture of hell:

22 . . . the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. (Luke 16:22-28)

[/B]."

Hello,

I am sorry you took my reply to be snippy.
That was not my intention, nor am I that kind of person. By enlightening me I meant that maybe JH could explain why he felt that my replies are rigid and if I need further understanding he could explain.

My understanding of the illustration of the account in Luke, chapter 16 to be of an illustration Jesus gave that is symbolic. Why do you feel it is literal?

In the King James Version, the Greek word Hades is rendered “hell” in each of its ten occurrences in the Christian Greek Scriptures. The rendering at Luke 16:19-31 mentions torment, but the entire account is symbolic in meaning. In verses 19-24 for example:
“19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.”
KJV
What then did Jesus mean when he said in illustrations: “The beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; and in hell [Hades] he lift his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom”? (Luke 16:19-31, King James Version) Since, as we have seen, Hades refers to mankind’s grave, and not to a place of torment, it is plain that Jesus was here telling an illustration or a story. As further evidence that this is not a literal account but is an illustration, consider this: Is hell literally within speaking distance of heaven so that such a real conversation could be carried on? Moreover, if the rich man were in a literal burning lake, how could Abraham send Lazarus to cool his tongue with just a drop of water on the tip of his finger?

What, then, was Jesus illustrating?
In my research an understanding here is what I have learned the illustration to mean.
The rich man in the illustration stood for the self-important religious leaders who rejected Jesus and later killed him. Lazarus pictured the common people who accepted God’s Son. The death of the rich man and of Lazarus represented a change in their condition. This change took place when Jesus fed the neglected Lazarus-like people spiritually, so that they thus came into the favor of the Greater Abraham, Almighty God. At the same time, the false religious leaders “died” with respect to having God’s favor. Being cast off, they suffered torments when Christ’s followers (the disciples) exposed their evil works according to Acts 7: 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? And they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. 57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,” KJV
So this illustration, to my understanding, does not teach that some dead persons are tormented in a literal fiery hell.
Thank you, Hope12

I am sorry you took my reply to be snippy.
I didn't. Where did I indicate that I did?

(I've known you for years -- on Answerway -- you're an "old friend.")

I too have known hope12 for years and years on answerway... (;

Hello,

I am sorry you took my reply to be snippy.
That was not my intention, nor am I that kind of person. By enlightening me I meant that maybe JH could explain why he felt that my replies are rigid and if I need further understanding he could explain.

My understanding of the illustration of the account in Luke, chapter 16 to be of an illustration Jesus gave that is symbolic. Why do you feel it is literal?

In the King James Version, the Greek word Hades is rendered “hell” in each of its ten occurrences in the Christian Greek Scriptures. The rendering at Luke 16:19-31 mentions torment, but the entire account is symbolic in meaning. In verses 19-24 for example:
“19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.”
KJV
What then did Jesus mean when he said in illustrations: “The beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; and in hell [Hades] he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom”? (Luke 16:19-31, King James Version) Since, as we have seen, Hades refers to mankind's grave, and not to a place of torment, it is plain that Jesus was here telling an illustration or a story. As further evidence that this is not a literal account but is an illustration, consider this: Is hell literally within speaking distance of heaven so that such a real conversation could be carried on? Moreover, if the rich man were in a literal burning lake, how could Abraham send Lazarus to cool his tongue with just a drop of water on the tip of his finger?

What, then, was Jesus illustrating?
In my research an understanding here is what I have learned the illustration to mean.
The rich man in the illustration stood for the self-important religious leaders who rejected Jesus and later killed him. Lazarus pictured the common people who accepted God's Son. The death of the rich man and of Lazarus represented a change in their condition. This change took place when Jesus fed the neglected Lazarus-like people spiritually, so that they thus came into the favor of the Greater Abraham, Almighty God. At the same time, the false religious leaders “died” with respect to having God's favor. Being cast off, they suffered torments when Christ's followers (the disciples) exposed their evil works according to Acts 7: 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. 57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,” KJV
So this illustration, to my understanding, does not teach that some dead persons are tormented in a literal fiery hell.
Thank you, Hope12


The passage of the stoning of Stephen doesn't have anything to do with hell. I believe what is does teach is the Lord Jesus would have come back right then ( notice the Lord is STANDING) and there to set up his Kingdom but once again, the Jews rejected him. They were furious at Stephen and stoned him for his words. The next time the Lord Jesus is mentioned at the right hand of the Father... HE is SITTING I think THAT is the important thing to notice.

As far as the rich man and Lazarus the beggar... I believe the story means just what Jesus said it meant. Jesus spoke of hell as a literal place of torment. It was originally just for Satan and the fallen angels. The Lord isn't the author of confusion. If the Bible says there is a place of torment for unbelievers... then that is what it means. You can twist it, read into it, and deny it is true. Because the Bible says that God is not a man that he should lie.

We don't have the right to take our life. But I see absolutely nothing in the Bible to suggest that should a believer kill himself he automatically goes to hell and is disqualified from heaven.

For the Blood of Jesus Christ, HIS SON (God), cleanses us from ALL sin. ALL means... ALL. Those are my thoughts. :)

We don't have the right to take our life. But I see absolutely nothing in the Bible to suggest that should a believer kill himself he automatically goes to hell and is disqualified from heaven.

You know what Classy T. I really enjoyed your answer. It was a huge Catholic teaching AT ONE TIME. That if you committed suicide you would automatically go to hell, but things have changed a lot. There is nothing in the bible to suggest that a believer who kills himself or herself would automatically be disqualified from heaven. We are not the judge either. So we can not truly say who is or is not going to be in heaven. Jesus died for our sins.

The passage of the stoning of Stephen doesn't have anything to do with hell. I believe what is does teach is the Lord Jesus would have come back right then ( notice the Lord is STANDING) and there to set up his Kingdom but once again, the Jews rejected him. They were furious at Stephen and stoned him for his words. The next time the Lord Jesus is mentioned at the right hand of the Father....HE is SITTING I think THAT is the important thing to notice.

As far as the rich man and Lazarus the beggar...i believe the story means just what Jesus said it meant. Jesus spoke of hell as a literal place of torment. It was originally just for Satan and the fallen angels. The Lord isn't the author of confusion. If the Bible says there is a place of torment for unbelievers...then that is what it means. You can twist it, read into it, and deny it is true. Because the Bible says that God is not a man that he should lie.

We don't have the right to take our life. But I see absolutely nothing in the Bible to suggest that should a believer kill himself he automatically goes to hell and is disqualified from heaven.

For the Blood of Jesus Christ, HIS SON (God), cleanses us from ALL sin. ALL means .....ALL. Those are my thoughts. :)

Hello,

I have not mentioned anything in my comment about the account of Stephen. I also did not address the accounts of Jesus In Matthew.

I do agree with you though that no where in the Bible does it say that a believer or Christian will go to hell. Many people believe hell to be a place of torment. I do not! I believe hell to be the grave and all people that die go to the grave.

Does the Bible indicate whether the dead experience pain?
Eccl. 9:5, 10: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all . . . All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol,* the place to which you are going.” (If they are conscious of nothing, they obviously feel no pain.) (*“Sheol,” AS, RS, NE, JB; “the grave,” KJ, Kx; “hell,” Dy; “the world of the dead,” TEV.)
Ps. 146:4: “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts* do perish.” (*“Thoughts,” KJ, 145:4 in Dy; “schemes,” JB; “plans,” RS, TEV.)

the real roots of this God-dishonoring doctrine go much deeper. The fiendish concepts associated with a hell of torment slander God and originate with the chief slanderer of God (the Devil, which name means “Slanderer”), the one whom Jesus Christ called “the father of the lie.”—John 8:44.


The Valley of Hinnom (Gehenna) was outside the walls of Jerusalem. For a time it was the site of idolatrous worship, including child sacrifice. In the first century Gehenna was being used as the incinerator for the filth of Jerusalem. Bodies of dead animals were thrown into the valley to be consumed in the fires, to which sulfur, or brimstone, was added to assist the burning. Also bodies of executed criminals, who were considered undeserving of burial in a memorial tomb, were thrown into Gehenna. Thus, at Matthew 5:29, 30, Jesus spoke of the casting of one’s “whole body” into Gehenna. If the body fell into the constantly burning fire it was consumed, but if it landed on a ledge of the deep ravine its putrefying flesh became infested with the ever-present worms, or maggots. (Mark 9:47, 48) Living humans were not pitched into Gehenna; so it was not a place of conscious torment.
At Matthew 10:28, Jesus warned his hearers to “be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.” What does it mean? Notice that there is no mention here of torment in the fires of Gehenna; rather, he says to ‘fear him that can destroy in Gehenna.’ By referring to the “soul” separately, Jesus here emphasizes that God can destroy all of a person’s life prospects; thus there is no hope of resurrection for him. So, the references to the ‘fiery Gehenna’ have the same meaning as ‘the lake of fire’ of Revelation 21:8, namely, destruction, “second death.”
What does the Bible say the penalty for sin is?
Rom. 6:23: “The wages sin pays is death.” If the wages sin pays is death, Why would they be tormernted if they already paid for their sins by dying? Can you explain this to me please? I find it hard to believe that a God of love would literally torment people in a flame of fire. Would a fleshly father set their child on fire as a punishment? Of course a loving father wouldn't. So how can a reasonable mind comprehend or heavenly Father who the Bible says loves us, do such an horrific unloving act?

Take care,

Hope12

The passage of the stoning of Stephen doesn't have anything to do with hell. I believe what is does teach is the Lord Jesus would have come back right then ( notice the Lord is STANDING) and there to set up his Kingdom but once again, the Jews rejected him. They were furious at Stephen and stoned him for his words. The next time the Lord Jesus is mentioned at the right hand of the Father....HE is SITTING I think THAT is the important thing to notice.

As far as the rich man and Lazarus the beggar...i believe the story means just what Jesus said it meant. Jesus spoke of hell as a literal place of torment. It was originally just for Satan and the fallen angels. The Lord isn't the author of confusion. If the Bible says there is a place of torment for unbelievers...then that is what it means. You can twist it, read into it, and deny it is true. Because the Bible says that God is not a man that he should lie.

We don't have the right to take our life. But I see absolutely nothing in the Bible to suggest that should a believer kill himself he automatically goes to hell and is disqualified from heaven.

For the Blood of Jesus Christ, HIS SON (God), cleanses us from ALL sin. ALL means .....ALL. Those are my thoughts. :)

Hello,

I have not mentioned anything in my comment about the account of Stephen. I also did not address the accounts of Jesus In Matthew.

I do agree with you though that no where in the Bible does it say that a believer or Christian will go to hell a place of torment, but I do believe they will go to the grave, were all go when they die. When the word hell is trasnslaterd correctly from the original Greek and Hebrew words "sheol and Hades" they refer to the grave not torment.

Does the Bible indicate whether the dead experience pain?
Eccl. 9:5, 10: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all . . . All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol,* the place to which you are going.” (If they are conscious of nothing, they obviously feel no pain.) (*“Sheol,” AS, RS, NE, JB; “the grave,” KJ, Kx; “hell,” Dy; “the world of the dead,” TEV.)
Ps. 146:4: “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts* do perish.” (*“Thoughts,” KJ, 145:4 in Dy; “schemes,” JB; “plans,” RS, TEV.)

the real roots of this God-dishonoring doctrine go much deeper. The fiendish concepts associated with a hell of torment slander God and originate with the chief slanderer of God (the Devil, which name means “Slanderer”), the one whom Jesus Christ called “the father of the lie.”—John 8:44.


The Valley of Hinnom (Gehenna) was outside the walls of Jerusalem. For a time it was the site of idolatrous worship, including child sacrifice. In the first century Gehenna was being used as the incinerator for the filth of Jerusalem. Bodies of dead animals were thrown into the valley to be consumed in the fires, to which sulfur, or brimstone, was added to assist the burning. Also bodies of executed criminals, who were considered undeserving of burial in a memorial tomb, were thrown into Gehenna. Thus, at Matthew 5:29, 30, Jesus spoke of the casting of one’s “whole body” into Gehenna. If the body fell into the constantly burning fire it was consumed, but if it landed on a ledge of the deep ravine its putrefying flesh became infested with the ever-present worms, or maggots. (Mark 9:47, 48) Living humans were not pitched into Gehenna; so it was not a place of conscious torment.
At Matthew 10:28, Jesus warned his hearers to “be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.” What does it mean? Notice that there is no mention here of torment in the fires of Gehenna; rather, he says to ‘fear him that can destroy in Gehenna.’ By referring to the “soul” separately, Jesus here emphasizes that God can destroy all of a person’s life prospects; thus there is no hope of resurrection for him. So, the references to the ‘fiery Gehenna’ have the same meaning as ‘the lake of fire’ of Revelation 21:8, namely, destruction, “second death.”
What does the Bible say the penalty for sin is?
Rom. 6:23: “The wages sin pays is death.” If the wages sin pays is death, Why would they be tormernted if they already paid for their sins by dying? Can you explain this to me please? I find it hard to believe that a God of love would literally torment people in a flame of fire. Would a fleshly father set their child on fire as a punishment? Of course a loving father wouldn't. So how can a reasonable mind comprehend or heavenly Father who the Bible says loves us, do such an horrific unloving act?

Take care,

Hope12

It was a huge Catholic teaching AT ONE TIME. That if you committed suicide you would automatically go to hell, but things have changed a lot.
The same is true of Protestants. The more we learn about mental illness or other human illnesses, the more open-minded we have become about suicide and why someone might choose that.

For the Blood of Jesus Christ, HIS SON (God), cleanses us from ALL sin. ALL means .....ALL. Those are my thoughts. :)
Yes, I agree, ALL. Jesus died for ALL. But if a person rejects that gift, none of his sins are forgiven.

I didn't. Where did I indicate that I did?

(I've known you for years -- on Answerway -- you're an "old friend.")

Hello,
I am sorry, I just saw the word [snip] added to my reply to JH and thought that is what you meant. I am sorry if that is not what you meant. Why did you add [snip]? It is not in my orginal- repply to JH.

Take care,
Hope12:)

Hello,
I am sorry, I just saw the word [snip] added to my reply to JH and thought that is what you meant. I am sorry if that is not what you meant. Why did you add [snip]? It is not in my orginal- repply to JH.

Take care,
Hope12:)
I took my virtual scissors and snipped (cut) out a part of your answer when I quoted you. Therefore, some of what you wrote is missing, snipped out.

I took my virtual scissors and snipped (cut) out a part of your answer when I quoted you. Therefore, some of what you wrote is missing, snipped out.

Hello Wondergirl,

I am so sorry! I must have been in a bad mood, I thought you where calling me snippy. Please forgive my error.

Take care and thanks for explaining. :)
Hope12

Yes, Hope you were being snippy. Lol

I think I misread it too, but can we all hug each other now and say our Peace.

(;

Hello Wondergirl,

I am so sorry! I must have been in a bad mood, I thought you where calling me snippy. Please forgive my error.

Take care and thanks for explaining. :)
Hope12
If I ever call you snippy, there will be no doubt that's what I'm doing.

If I ever call you snippy, there will be no doubt that's what I'm doing.

Lol
That's good to know, I love direct people. Then there is not doubt as to what is being said.
Thanks again
Hope

I guess I was not as direct as I should be.

Here is a Hug Hope, Peace of Jehovah be with you.

Here is a Hug For My Auntie, Peace of God be with you.

Hope 12,

I'm a bit confused... because the scriptures that was posted... Acts 7 was INDEED about the stoning of Stephen.

Check these verses out:

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Romans 5:12

SO... it looks like physically we ALL die. WHY? Because of original sin... BUT that is just PHYSICAL death. We have a soul and a spirit and we WILL live someone forever...

It is appointed unto man, ONCE to die and after this the judgement. ( we will ALL be judged... believers and unbelievers)

Just out of curiosity what do you suppose these verses mean...

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Hebrews 2:3?

How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation... Hebrews 2:3

Escape what?

Mathew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The above verses certainly does not support your theory that death is the end.

I will be happy to answer your question about a loving God sending people to eternal punishment. He doesn't send anyone there... people choose itby rejecting the free gift. AND God loved us so much he sent his only son to the cross so we can be with HIM forever and ever.


I'm amazed that the Father sent his son to suffer and die for me. That really is a loving God so I could be with him forever. The only unloving act I can think of is for sinful people to reject God's free gift... the Lord Jesus Christ.

Here is a Hug For My Auntie, Peace of God be with you.
Awwwwwww, thank you, sweet little Joey.

I guess I will not [snip] on the Christianity board, but be more explanatory: [I have cut out a section of what you wrote].

Yes, Hope you were being snippy. lol

I think I misread it too, but can we all hug each other now and say our Peace.

(;

Hi JH,

Here is a B... ig Hug.

Thank,

*(snippy) Hope12 lol :)

Hope 12,

I'm a bit confused...because the scriptures that was posted... Acts 7 was INDEED about the stoning of Stephen.

Check these verses out:

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Romans 5:12

SO....it looks like physically we ALL die. WHY? because of original sin... BUT that is just PHYSICAL death. We have a soul and a spirit and we WILL live someone forever...

It is appointed unto man, ONCE to die and after this the judgement. ( we will ALL be judged...believers and unbelievers)

Just out of curiosity what do you suppose these verses mean...

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Hebrews 2:3?

How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation...Hebrews 2:3

Escape what?

Mathew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


The above verses certainly does not support your theory that death is the end.

I will be happy to answer your question about a loving God sending people to eternal punishment. He doesn't send anyone there...people choose itby rejecting the free gift. AND God loved us so much he sent his only son to the cross so we can be with HIM forever and ever.


I'm amazed that the Father sent his son to suffer and die for me. That really is a loving God so I could be with him forever. The only unloving act I can think of is for sinful people to reject God's free gift...the Lord Jesus Christ.

HI CT,

I never stated that you did not post the account about Stephen, I said I did not comment on it.As to all other comments you have posted, I prefer to take one point at a time.


For instance Matthew 10:28:
Jesus used the Valley of Hinnom, or Gehenna, as a fitting symbol of death without hope of a resurrection. He drove this point home when he warned that God “can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.” Gehenna is a symbol of eternal death, not eternal torture. If a person when they die goes to heaven or hell, why would God need to resurrect them?

Also if a person goes to hell, or as you believe, that hell is a fiery eterenal torment, what is left of them to burn for eternally? How does this harmonize with what the Bible clearly states: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all . . . Their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished . . . There is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol [mankind’s common grave], the place to which you are going.” (Eccl. 9:5, 6, 10) These inspired Bible verses make it clear that when someone dies, he is no longer conscious. He cannot think, feel, communicate, or comprehend anything.

In my understanding of Matthew 10:28 it seems more likely that the word hell that some translate to mean eternal torment, contradicts other sccriptures such as Eccl 9: 5,6,10, Rev. 20:13, 14,

At Matthew 10:28, Jesus warned his hearers to “be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.” What does it mean? Notice that there is no mention here of torment in the fires of Gehenna; rather, he says to ‘fear him that can destroy in Gehenna.’ By referring to the “soul” separately, Jesus here emphasizes that God can destroy all of a person’s life prospects; thus there is no hope of resurrection for him. So, the references to the ‘fiery Gehenna’ have the same meaning as ‘the lake of fire’ of Revelation 21:8, namely, destruction, “second death.”


This would be in harmony with (Romans 6:23) 23 For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.


Take care

Hope12

I’m Jewish my wife was Catholic. I’ve posted a bit on this site. My wife died in 2009, we were together over 50 years, married over 46 years. When she died I wanted to kill myself what keeps me from that is I feel there is an after life but if I kill myself I won’t be with her. But with that I’ve told my kids I won’t let myself be hospitalized. Since my wife died I’ve been writing poems. HTTP://www.lovejoey-poems.blogspot.com

Those are precious.
You seem to have been a happy man with her. How blessed.

Those are precious.
You seem to have been a happy man with her. How blessed.

Thank you

Yes, I enjoyed those.

HTTP://www.lovejoey-poems.blogspot.com;][/url]











Beautiful poems. You will see your wife again, when God is ready to take you home. I have loved ones waiting there in heaven and I can hardly wait. I have to , because God isn't ready for me yet. God Bless you.