My oldest daughter is 17. I stayed home to be with her and her sister and have tried so hard to be a good mom. I thought I was doing everything right because I tried really hard. We had a bad bad time a few years ago because I would not let her hang out with this creepy girl two grades above her who was a bad influence and a bully. We (mostly she) were in counseling for a year. She finally got herself out of that situation, and when she did, went back to her normal self. I loosened up a lot and gave her more freedom, and she liked me again. We worked on earning trust, and our relationship was good, at least on the surface. I trusted her, but it started to dawn on me a few months ago that she was not being honest about drinking and where she was going at night. Turns out that for this last school year, she and her friends have been drinking and going to parties/houses/empty schoolyards while telling me she was somewhere else. We have heavy alcoholism in our family and have talked about the risks of premature drinking for years. The lies she has told me over the last couple of years hurt so much. After much deliberation and consultation, I said she couldn't spend the night out anymore and that we would have random alcohol saliva tests. Things are back to awful again. My husband, the child of an alcoholic, cannot stand up to her, agrees with her that all kids her age drink, that she'll be careful, and says that all we can do is talk to her and "steer her in the right direction." Logical consequences are something he does not believe in. Our disagreement over how to handle our daughter over the last few years has put a huge strain on our marriage. Now she and my husband have pretty much cut me out of the parenting loop. She hates me. She tells all her friends, her friends' parents, her sister, her dad, my dad, and anyone who will listen how overly - strict I am, and tells them everything I do in a negative light. On Mother's Day, she called me "psycho mom" because I wouldn't let her go to a party when the parents weren't going to be home. After crying all day in my room, which has never occurred before, she acted like I was being so immature, although I just honestly could not stop, especially since it was on Mother's Day. I feel like everyone is against me, like they're all looking down at me. I can't bring myself to face her her friends and her friends' parents and feel radioactive. I feel so ashamed after her talking about me all the time behind my back to anyone who will listen and feel so used over the way she manipulates me with kindness or anger.
Today, I realized that life has not been fun in years. Our relationship has devastated me and worn me down. I've devoted my life to her and she hates me so much that she's been in counseling on and off for over 2 years. I am such a sad failure, as is our relationship. I will not commit suicide because it would hurt my parents and our other daughter too much, but I have thought about it the past few days. Never have I felt so desperate and so down. I saw a therapist this week and maybe that will help, but he is out of town for another week. The crying won't stop. I feel like I am dying and no one cares.

You are not a failure! Please listen to me... If you care about what everyone thinks of you.. you will drive yourself crazy. Stop doing that!

You were strict... good for you! Sounds to as if your daughter is an ungrateful little brat. About a month ago I finally got myself confidence back after years of second guessing myself on everything.

My problem wasn't my family it was me. I am somewhat as I use to be and my philosophy is this, " No one has to die for me and face God, so why should I let them try to live for me and tell me what to do or not to do"

It doesn't matter if you are the best mother or person in the world there is always going to be someone who will try their best to
Bring you down.

Tell your daughter.. you have had it . Lay down some rules and stick to them. If she doesn't like it... so be it.. she'll understand one day. Don't let her push you around. Cheer Up.. I'm a mom too and it does get better... Kit

You have done much to get her this far, and went the extra mile to get counselling to get her back on track again. You haven't done anything that I would have not done myself, and I think for many of us, we have been at loggerheads with teenage daughters too.

I have to ask you if you would feel better if your husband were more involved in a productive way. At least backing you up, both of you united, would send a strong signal of what is expected of her, as well as applying appropriate consequences when she gets out of line. It is all too easy to tune out and just hope for the best. He should be backing you up, stepping up himself, and he should be concerned about your mental health right now in my opinion.

I don't know how you can be effective with your daughter on your own, and I hope that you can convince him to attend counselling with you. He needs to know how this is all affecting you, and learn what he needs to learn, in order to do what he should be doing as a father, and a husband.

As to your daughters behaviour, and lies, and accusations, and this spreading the same to family and friends- I have seen that many times before with mothers and daughters. With some kids that just comes with the territory. I don't think that they can always control their thoughts, or understand and respond appropriately during this time of their lives. The independence is knocking at the front door, and yet she is not yet ready to make responsible decisions for herself. Particularly about the drinking.

You have told her of the family history, and she will eventually learn, and maybe the hard way, that excessive drinking will hold her back, and keep her stuck in a place with like minded individuals, until she decides to change. She has changed once remember, she is capable of changing again.

You need to weather the storm, and not keep upping the ante when she pushes your buttons. What she says to other people, you know isn't true, and she will eventually be embarrassed at spreading lies about her own mother. That will haunt her at some point.

Try to see that as something you have no control over it, you can't change it, or stop it, just try to let it go.

I wouldn't be doing the saliva test on her. What good will it do. Prove you right? Then what. You already know she is drinking. I agree to not allow her at parties where parents are home, and/or where alcohol is being served. But that won't likely stop her from going, but keep to your standards of parenting with her, and her conscience will kick in because she knows you don't approve. Let's give her the benefit of the doubt that she is responsible enough to handle herself, and if she gets into trouble, the consequence will be hers and hers alone.

I think in all honesty, what you are seeing is the end of parenting on the horizon. In another year or so she will be off on her own at college (hopefully she has some plans in that area), and she will learn, as we all do, just how difficult it is to leave the nest. Try to accept that she is facing her independence and her future, and any negativity is going to go to the person who will be there no matter what- you.

Accept what you cannot change, which is an easy thing to say, and a very difficult thing to do. Back off a bit, and see how she manages herself. The more you try to control a 17 year old bent on doing her own thing, the harder it will be to enforce any discipline, and she knows it. Let her out a bit into the world of adult responsibility, because that is what she is going to be facing.

See if, when things settle a bit, that you and her can't spend a day together. Out of the house, and out of town if possible.

Tell her that everything you do for her is to protect her, and allow her equal time to explain why she may feel smothered and treated like a child, when she is nearly an adult. Some understanding between the two of you without any repercussion, may go a long way in bringing you two closer together.

With counselling, I hope that you need to learn to focus on yourself more, at least for now. You might want to speak to your Doctor about possible depression, but above all, continue with therapy until you find your footing again. I hope that your husband will step up. That he doesn't say or do much, doesn't necessarily mean he has nothing to offer. Maybe counselling can bring out some ideas and suggestions for him to help you more.

In the meanwhile, try for some quality time with her, get the counselling ball rolling, focus more on yourself and your needs, and do something that makes you happy. I ride a bike a lot and spend way too much time on the beach alone, but, whatever works for you, do it.

I hope you will post again and let us know how you are doing.

Things will get better. I've lived through it, and many of my friends have as well. Some are going through what you are now. Somehow we all survive.

Jake2008, it would be better for my husband and I to be on the same page. We just can't seem to get there. All of our kids' lives, he wants to give in, and I want to be firm. He likes the results of my way in the long-run, but he's a short-run kind of guy. He's ADD (me too) but will not even think about getting help. We are philosophically divided over delayed gratification. He has knee-jerk reactions and runs more on emotion, his brain is just wired that way. He won't change - I have tried! As for my daughter and me, this pain is so excruciating that it is pushing me away, maybe a little for self-preservation. But when you mention seeing the end of parenting, maybe that is what it is. Maybe detaching from her needs to happen so she can fail or live with the results of the drinking and going against me. It's just such a pivotal time for her - she has it all, and I can't help but remember how I blew so much by just wanting to drink and have fun all the time. The poor choices I made at her age have not helped me any, but maybe there's nothing I can do for her anymore. Thank you both so much. It is amazing how much better a little support will make you feel.
On Mother's Day, I talked to my mom about all of this, which was hard because she's always thought my daughter was perfect. But I got a chance to apologize and say how bad I have felt these last couple of years because of the heartbreak I put her through when I was a teenager. The guilt is heavy because my mom is a giving and loving person. She was so supportive that day, and it lifted my spirits to have someone care. It will be nice to reread your comments when things get dark. Thank you so much.

Jake2008, it would be better for my husband and I to be on the same page. We just can't seem to get there. All of our kids' lives, he wants to give in, and I want to be firm. He likes the results of my way in the long-run, but he's a short-run kind of guy. He's ADD (me too) but will not even think about getting help. We are philosophically divided over delayed gratification. He has knee-jerk reactions and runs more on emotion, his brain is just wired that way. He won't change - I have tried! As for my daughter and me, this pain is so excruciating that it is pushing me away, maybe a little for self-preservation. But when you mention seeing the end of parenting, maybe that is what it is. Maybe detaching from her needs to happen so she can fail or live with the results of the drinking and going against me. It's just such a pivotal time for her - she has it all, and I can't help but remember how I blew so much by just wanting to drink and have fun all the time. The poor choices I made at her age have not helped me any, but maybe there's nothing I can do for her anymore. Thank you both so much. It is amazing how much better a little support will make you feel.
On Mother's Day, I talked to my mom about all of this, which was hard because she's always thought my daughter was perfect. But I got a chance to apologize and say how bad I have felt these last couple of years because of the heartbreak I put her through when I was a teenager. The guilt is heavy because my mom is a giving and loving person. She was so supportive that day, and it lifted my spirits to have someone care. It will be nice to reread your comments when things get dark. Thank you so much.




You are just like any mom who loves her child... You get hurt and believe me I know children can hurt their parents worse than anyone can.. I read the part of your post about the crowd she wants to run with... good for you for telling her no. You need to start thinking of yourself a little more.

Any mother worth her salt is going to want the best for their children and seventeen is a rebellious stage. The good news is.. you have come the right place to get some good advice. Jake gives great advice and there are so many wonderful people here who will help. God Bless you... Kit

It gets better.

It does.

I feel pretty damn good about saying that because I've been in about the lowest place one can be and still walk this earth and lived to tell about it. The lowest. Deepest. Darkest.

Please stand your ground... and be patient... she doesn't get a free pass to treat you poorly... and she is not an adult. 20 will be better than now... 24 will be better than 20... part of being loving is being true to what is right... and in time, this will show.

I'm the stepfather of a 22 year old... the christmas day she told us she hated spending time with us... the day after we found out she was having sex with her boyfriend (she was 16) wasn't one for the Hallmark Memory books... so... as a person who has lived with some terrible, dark depression at times... I know how awful it can be.

How consuming. Controlling. How frikin' penetrating and persistent and pervasive. It is bad.

But... that angry, mad girl is still that little girl who loved you. She's in there. She's just confused and daring and challenging and hateful sometimes... and its easiest to show your anger to the ones you love most.

She loves you most and wants your love... she's just in a bad place, is acting badly, and is reacting without thinking.

So... deep breath in and out. If you do what you know is right, you should find some peace in that.

Reminds me of a song sung by Sweet Honey in the Rock, from the writings of kahil gilbran's The Prophet...

"your children
are not your children
they are the sons and the daughters of life's longing for itself
they come through you
but are not from you
and though they are with you
they belong not to you

you can give them your love but not your throughts
they have their own thoughts
they have their own thoughts

you can house their bodies but not their souls
for their souls dwell in a place of tomorrow that you cannot visit
not even in your dreams

you can strive to be like them
but you cannot make them just like you
strive to be like them
but you cannot make them just like you"

I hope the following link will work for you... let it load, be patient... you might need to click "continue"...
Rhapsody Player (http://www.rhapsody.com/player?type=undefined&id=tra.25790216&remote=undefined&page=undefined&pageregion=undefined&guid=undefined&from=undefined&__pcode=)

it gets better.

it does.

i feel pretty damn good about saying that because ive been in about the lowest place one can be and still walk this earth and lived to tell about it. the lowest. deepest. darkest.

please stand your ground... and be patient... she doesnt get a free pass to treat you poorly... and she is not an adult. 20 will be better than now... 24 will be better than 20... part of being loving is being true to what is right... and in time, this will show.

im the stepfather of a 22 year old... the christmas day she told us she hated spending time with us... the day after we found out she was having sex with her bf (she was 16) wasnt one for the Hallmark Memory books... so... as a person who has lived with some terrible, dark depression at times... i know how awful it can be.

how consuming. controlling. how frikin' penetrating and persistant and pervasive. it is bad.

but... that angry, mad girl is still that little girl who loved you. shes in there. shes just confused and daring and challenging and hateful sometimes... and its easiest to show your anger to the ones you love most.

she loves you most and wants your love... shes just in a bad place, is acting badly, and is reacting without thinking.

so... deep breath in and out. if you do what you know is right, you should find some peace in that.

reminds me of a song sung by Sweet Honey in the Rock, from the writings of kahil gilbran's The Prophet...

"your children
are not your children
they are the sons and the daughters of life's longing for itself
they come through you
but are not from you
and though they are with you
they belong not to you

you can give them your love but not your throughts
they have their own thoughts
they have their own thoughts

you can house their bodies but not their souls
for their souls dwell in a place of tomorrow that you cannot visit
not even in your dreams

you can strive to be like them
but you cannot make them just like you
strive to be like them
but you cannot make them just like you"

i hope the following link will work for you... let it load, be patient... you might need to click "continue"...
Rhapsody Player (http://www.rhapsody.com/player?type=undefined&id=tra.25790216&remote=undefined&page=undefined&pageregion=undefined&guid=undefined&from=undefined&__pcode=)



Sadmom... you have friends here now. Kp and jake are wonderful people who have given you great advice. Keep posting and you'll find everyone here is great. The best folks you'll find anywhere... Kit:)

You might want to think of this another way.

You are so right in having expectations and a level of respect shown toward you, from your daughter. You are also right about the risks she's taking with the drinking and partying. But, I am not so sure that you can stop her, no matter what you do.

That may seem an odd thing to say, but underage drinking and partying has gone on without regard to parents wishes and the law, since as long as I can remember. My son was into the party hearty, and eventually went on to get two honours degrees at University. At the time all the partying was taking place, I realized that I did not have that much power and control, and telling him not to do something, went in one ear and out the other.

What I overlooked was that he was careful. He was with the same group of friends and they watched out for each other, there was always a designated driver, or they called me to round them up and take them home. While I would have preferred they drink diet Pepsi instead of beer, things balanced out in the end.

In retrospect, I'm glad that I didn't push the issue into something more than it was, considering how they went about things. Not that it isn't an important issue, but I have never met a parent who could stop a teen at your daughters' age, not to do something they were bent on doing. He did understand the risks and how I felt about it, but that was all I could do, short of locking him in his bedroom on the weekends.

You may want to think about treating her more as a young adult, rather than a kid defying her parents. Talk to her about the risks when you have an opportunity, and about things she needs to know you are accepting of. Make it clear that if she makes the decision to drink, she can call you anytime for a ride home, no questions asked. That statement is particularly meaningful to me because I have had those phone calls, and I was happy to pick him up and get him home safely.

What you are doing is paving the way for her to think about self control, and reducing the risk. If you can agree to disagree about the drinking and partying, you still have a lifeline to her if she needs it, and she is more likely to consider her own choices when she is out, and instead of drinking 12 beer, she'll maybe be satisfied with two. I think as long as it is 'forbidden' and comes with severe consequences, she will keep up the attitude just to spite you that you can't stop her no matter what you do.

It is a tough call because you will worry regardless, but better to be in 'the loop' than to continue to fight with her. A little peace between the two of you over this one issue, may just make life overall, easier in your home.

I'm starting to think of this in a different way, not a way I want to see it but maybe need to. That beautiful writing by kahil gilbran is like a eulogy for the end of parenthood. I was not ready for that end to come so quickly. There just doesn't seem to be anything I can do but let her go, along with all the hopes and dreams I've had for her. That makes this detachment really hard. What will make it easy is the fact that I'm so mad at her right now that it's hard to look her in the eyes. Anger and tears and bitterness are plentiful in my heart, and that is shameful.

The logistics of letting go are confusing - do you just not ask her where she's going, not call the parents to see if they'll be home for the parties, not wait up for when she comes home at night? There wouldn't be any point in doing that now if there are no consequences for her behavior but the ones that the outside world imposes. Because if she breaks the rules by drinking or whatever, what are we going to do? Restrict her? That's what I'm doing now and this house is a battlefield. All she wants to do is be with her friends and be around boys. She wants to go to a big party college too, although that's not how she describes it. Her main concerns are the size of the school (big), do they have a football team, and do they have good greek life. And we have been saving and saving since she was born for this? And we will spend thousands of dollars to give her that, which she will never appreciate.

We're the parents and it is a hard job. You're younger than me but I can remember going to bed some nights with my stomach in knots, because one or more of the children were mad at us for not letting them do something or go somewhere we didn't feel was a place they should be.

They did not talk back... they knew that was not allowed even though I know they went into their rooms and vented.

When they did give me the look or "said "whatever".. or "I can't wait till I'm eighteen"...I would say , "well as long as your dad and I are paying for your education and you live in this house , you will go by the rules or if you don't want to go by the rules.. get a job.. an apartment, your own car and car insurance ,pay your own utilities and rent.

My children weren't perfect, but they knew how far to push. All of them turned out great. I long for those days of having all of them home again. The good outweighs the bad a million times and I miss those days.
You are the Mom... it hurts when their mad, but when it's for their good they get over it. Would you rather her be mad at home with you or out drinking and driving and running with the wrong crowd?

So if she's mad , it's not going to hurt her... She'll get over it. Stay consistent and you'll do fine... Kit

If our kids don't "hate" us at times we are not being a good parent. We are just that, their parent. We are not their friend, their buddy. It would be great if we could talk and chat about everything, but we have to be a parent, which at times is like their probation officer, the CIA, and more. The more they give us doubts the more we have to watch.

And we will spend thousands of dollars to give her that, which she will never appreciate.
Is she at least a B student? Tell her that if her GPA falls below a C, for instance, you will stop paying for college and she will have to leave. Or what about a community college where she goes for at least a year to prove she is college material. If she doesn't do well there, then no transfer to a bigger college. Meet with her and her counselor to iron out some kind of plan. You should not have to foot the bill for her to party for four years and end up with who knows what.

Is she at least a B student? Tell her that if her GPA falls below a C, for instance, you will stop paying for college and she will have to leave. Or what about a community college where she goes for at least a year to prove she is college material. If she doesn't do well there, then no transfer to a bigger college. Meet with her and her counselor to iron out some kind of plan. You should not have to foot the bill for her to party for four years and end up with who knows what.

WG you are 100% right on the mark.

I'm not saying give up on your hopes and dreams, or your parenting, or your love for her. What I am saying is you have to communicate with her, and come up with a new plan so that you can both be happy with each other.

Decide on a curfew time, and what the consequence will be if she doesn't meet curfew. Maybe no car for the week if she drives, or no allowance, or double duty in the house cleaning department. Be specific, and when she has six loads of laundry to do and the grass to cut, that consequence, which is not very palatable to any teen, will stick. If you stick to it.

Decide on researching colleges together, and phone their toll free numbers for their calendars and course outlines, and programs. Be active and interested in listening to what educational goals she has. Go through the plusses and minuses together, and come up with a compromise. Let her know that if her grades slip, for whatever reason, you have the option of not investing in her education, and she does not have the option of returning home. Be tough on this one too.

While she is still at home, set up a reasonable schedule for all the members of your family, to get all the work done. Your son can take out the garbage and recycling, your husband can make a few meals and do dishes through the week, your daughter can help you get groceries (quality time). Everybody has to contribute. If they ask why, tell them because you live here!!

Try your best to pick a time to talk to her about one thing at a time when it is quiet and nobody is listening in. That is only three talks- maybe 3 hours a week- tops. Surely she can commit to that. Curfew, Educational planning, house duties.

Give her an opportunity to ask for additional time with you to discuss anything special coming up that she wants to do.

While the battle still rages, this may take time; even to accomplish arranging an hour with her to discuss curfew. But stick to it, and be prepared to compromise along the way. She may phone you five minutes before she is due home, and ask for a ride. Go and get her- that is more important than her being home late, although tell her next time that you need more notice if she's going to be a little late.

You could try asking her to type out what she expects of you, her family, her freedom, her education goals, curfew, etc. That would give you both a starting point to choose one thing to settle at a time, so she needs to prioritize- with curfew being first on the list.

Discuss all of this ahead of time with your husband- also in a quiet place with no distractions. See what he thinks is reasonable, and ask him to sit in on these talks with her. But, because of how you have described him, he may not wish to participate until things are going well, then he can when the dust settles maybe. I hope so.

Don't give up on your hopes and dreams!! She will get there, but she will need the discipline from home in order to have those skills to survive in college, so think of this as an investment in her development.

She may be taking the long way around to get from point A to point B, but you will both end up in the same place.

I'm not saying give up on your hopes and dreams, or your parenting, or your love for her. What I am saying is you have to communicate with her, and come up with a new plan so that you can both be happy with eachother.

Decide on a curfew time, and what the consequence will be if she doesn't meet curfew. Maybe no car for the week if she drives, or no allowance, or double duty in the house cleaning department. Be specific, and when she has six loads of laundry to do and the grass to cut, that consequence, which is not very palatable to any teen, will stick. If you stick to it.

Decide on researching colleges together, and phone their toll free numbers for their calendars and course outlines, and programs. Be active and interested in listening to what educational goals she has. Go through the plusses and minuses together, and come up with a compromise. Let her know that if her grades slip, for whatever reason, you have the option of not investing in her education, and she does not have the option of returning home. Be tough on this one too.

While she is still at home, set up a reasonable schedule for all the members of your family, to get all the work done. Your son can take out the garbage and recycling, your husband can make a few meals and do dishes through the week, your daughter can help you get groceries (quality time). Everybody has to contribute. If they ask why, tell them because you live here!!!

Try your best to pick a time to talk to her about one thing at a time when it is quiet and nobody is listening in. That is only three talks- maybe 3 hours a week- tops. Surely she can commit to that. Curfew, Educational planning, house duties.

Give her an opportunity to ask for additional time with you to discuss anything special coming up that she wants to do.

While the battle still rages, this may take time; even to accomplish arranging an hour with her to discuss curfew. But stick to it, and be prepared to compromise along the way. She may phone you five minutes before she is due home, and ask for a ride. Go and get her- that is more important than her being home late, although tell her next time that you need more notice if she's going to be a little late.

You could try asking her to type out what she expects of you, her family, her freedom, her education goals, curfew, etc. That would give you both a starting point to choose one thing to settle at a time, so she needs to prioritize- with curfew being first on the list.

Discuss all of this ahead of time with your husband- also in a quiet place with no distractions. See what he thinks is reasonable, and ask him to sit in on these talks with her. But, because of how you have described him, he may not wish to participate until things are going well, then he can when the dust settles maybe. I hope so.

Don't give up on your hopes and dreams!!! She will get there, but she will need the discipline from home in order to have those skills to survive in college, so think of this as an investment in her development.

She may be taking the long way around to get from point A to point B, but you will both end up in the same place.

Jake is 100% right.

WG, she will be applying to college this fall, and we will be looking at schools this summer. I told her recently that if she couldn't make better decisions about things like drinking by the time she was ready to go to college, then she wasn't going to be mature enough to go, and maybe she'd need to take a gap year or go to school here so she could grow up. I have always been willing to do the unpopular thing and be firm but loving, but now, her reactions have been so dramatic. She went to my husband and cried on his shoulder recently after I told her to come home because the plans kept changing and the parents weren't going to be home at the party she was going to, and ever since then, it's like I'm the one with the problem. He's always countered me on matters of discipline but was happy to let me handle things. Now he's getting involved, he's just not on my side. Jake2008, I love the specific consequences on broken rules and all the good suggestions. She has plenty of chores, which she does for the most part, and she's pretty good about her curfew. She is responsible with school work and athletics, and she has her own jewelry business. She really is a good kid; she just drinks with her friends, revolves her world around her social life, doesn't talk to me about anything and lies. And talks about what a monster I am to anyone who will listen. All of your suggestions are really good. It's just that I can barely get in the shower from being so depressed about all of this, I don't know, all of this loss. I did nothing all day but take a long nap and write a bio that due on Tuesday for her college counselor. The lack of support and the disagreement from my husband are like lead weights to me now. It's not that he doesn't want to be involved; he just doesn't want to think that anything could go wrong or that she's less than perfect. Maybe it's the child of an alcoholic thing that makes him unable to think anything could go or is going wrong. We need to talk to someone, but frankly I would dread that so much because we have done that before. He loses his temper and says things that sting for years. It's been better to just ignore him and stay out of his way, but I've gotten to where I can hardly stand to talk to him, knowing he'll probably argue with anything I say. Our marriage has truly been strained by all this. The other night, I wanted one of us to move out, which would just make things worse for our kids. I am stuck in a velvet-walled prison.

Jake and WG have given you some wonderful advice. I hope things start looking up... Blessings

I am stuck in a velvet-walled prison.
I think your prison walls are made of SOS (steel wool) pads right now.

Stick to your guns; be consistent. Someone has to be. Don't wimp out. You've got us behind you. And don't do any college admission stuff that your daughter should be doing -- don't do any work for her. If she can't get around to it, oh well.

She has a lot going for her, and thanks to you, she's kept her head above water for the most part.

Have you considered going to counselling for yourself? It may do you good to speak to another person face to face about all that has happened, and all that is going on. It is difficult for any parent to know when to draw the line, and when to let go a bit. But, having said that, you seem so terribly sad and overwhelmed. Maybe you need a new focus in order to feel better about everything.

In all that is going on, you still have a life to live, and there are opportunities and challenges that you could take on, outside the family, doing something you enjoy that gives you some reprieve, even a few hours a week.

With all the stress and pressure wearing you out, you might want to consider getting your strength back, and clearing your head, and doing something just for you might help.

I bought myself a bike and a bathing suit, and that's what I do when people really wear me down, and I feel the need to just get out. I have a backpack and my supplies in there, and just go where the wheels take me. Sometimes I'm out for an hour, sometimes I'm gone for the afternoon. It is me time, and now that I have some, I will not give it up.

They are simple things, but it lets me enjoy some time to myself, without listening to the nattering and deadlines and responsibilities at home. I feel good when I return, and I'm not harbouring anger or confusion that I had before I left.

Do you have things that you like to do that you've put off because of all that is going on? What about a new hobby, or doing something you've always wanted to do, but were too busy raising the kids and taking care of the household.

WG, you are right about the steel wool. Jake2008, I agree with all this. I have thought for a long time about going to talk to someone other than the woman who my daughter goes to. I found someone who was recommended by another doctor. He seems nice and I've had one meeting with him, just last week. He's out of town now, but I will go back in another week. I started going to work out on a stationery bike a few months ago. I take something to read and try to go for about 75 minutes - working up a sweat makes me feel better. Lately though, I just haven't had the energy. I want to buy some swimming fins (is that what you call the things divers wear on their feet?) and start swimming at a nearby pool. I'm going to try and do that tomorrow. I don't like to swim, but it's kind of fun with the flippers on that make you go fast. I also just took a bridge class with some friends, and we're trying to play once a week. It's fun, one of the only fun things in my life right now, and we laugh a lot. Being stuck at home all weekend, again and again, bored and depressed with a dead-end life and a family who doesn't appreciate me is so miserable. I need to stop living for my kids for a change. Tomorrow I will buy the fins instead of sleeping all day. Thank you for all this good advice from everyone and for showing such kindness to a perfect stranger. It has helped so much.

You're very welcome! We've all been where you are in some way, shape, or form. We women have to stick together and not let the husbands and children be in charge of our lives. Feel free to post any time. Someone you've already "met" or a new voice will pop in to encourage you. And we want to hear about your successes and pleasures too. Now I'm off to another web site where I help people with grammar. Never a dull moment. *happy sigh*

Wow, hope things have gotten better since you posted this. That is very sad and I know exactly what you are going through. I too have a daughter who has taken the fun out of my life without me realizing it but still I long to have a relationship with her. Her mood swings are dramatic and no matter what I say or how I say it she overreacts or shuts me down. I am afraid to speak around her. People treat me differantly and only recently was it brought to my attention dor years she spoke ill of me to others. I have always wondered why the other moms all got along and did things together to support their daughters with after school activities or planned get togethers but I was never included even though my daughter was always invited and often the guest of honor. She was an excellent student, earned the priciples award, attended college and is now a well known professional athlete at age 23. I worked a grave shift for years so I'd be a "stay at home mom" for her. I sewed her dresses when she wanted a particular design. I taught her abouty makeup, cooking, how to drive a stick shift. I played babrbies with her when she was young. I had holes in my shoes for years. I went without medical attention, fancy clothes, dental care just to make ends meet so her life was reasonable comfortable.. . she knows that. I have been a volunteer in the community all my life and pay my bills. Been married to her dad 25 yrs. Yet, I have been black balled from all her events and I am treated like a leapor when I buy a ticket and attend if sommeone recognizes me. It is all very hurtful and I will not fly next month to attend her event which will be aired on showtime. I was blind to the fact she hates me. I just thought she was busy and overwhelmed. I just continued to work and foot her bills, babysit her pets, cover her social network and fan sites. I am shocked to know now that she has been using me all these years. I am such a fool. Yet, my heart longs to be close to her...

Your daughter is being a teenage pain in the butt but your biggest problem is your husband. He is not co parenting. He needs to get with the program.
Do your counseling, you are going to need help in dealing with both of them.
You know the problems of drinking and your daughter doesn't. She is becoming accustomed to disrespecting you and playing you and your husband against each other.
I suggest you sit him down and discuss the dangers of drinking with him. Talk to him about what your daughter is doing and tell him that you need him to help you, not take her side.
If he refuses then you practice tough love on both of them. When there is a problem. Give it to him. When she needs something, send her to him.
In the meantime you keep up your counseling so you will be able to pick up the pieces from both of them.

I wish you well.

My daughter isn't as old as yours yet, but the principle is still the same. It isn't you she hates; it's what you stand for: boundaries. She hates the boundaries.
It's funny. The experts always say "children crave boundaries," but what happens when you tell a 2 year old to go to bed and stay there, or a 13 year old that she is NOT wearing that outfit out of this house, or that 16 year old that she's forbidden to be around a bad influence, and now finally, your 19 year old that she needs to stop lying & face up to the fact that she has a problem with drinking! It's all the same.
When they are older -- much older -- they look back and truly want to kick themselves for putting you in these positions time and time again. When my father died I was in my late 30's. I cried so hard and screamed at myself for being -- well, a teenager.
My favorite moment was when my 'playboy' stepson grew up, got married, and his wife gave birth to... yep! A GIRL. I just thought how precious it is that this boy who used to run around trying to 'ruin' girls would now be trying to protect his own girl from boys like him! Ha ha!
For what it's worth, I found your question here, because of my online search. My 12 year old daughter goes back to school tomorrow, and wanted to wear -- now get this -- either an anime-looking character-style outfit (and she fears the bullies?? ) OR this worn-out, stained-up outfit she's had for about 3 1/2 years! I asked her to wash her hair, and she screamed, "I'll have to put alcohol on it, so I don't have to take a bath!" It goes on and on, but I think you get the point. So yes, she hates me, too, right now.
You said your daughter is 19. This means she's old enough to call a truce with you for one day. You need to sit down with her and tell her that you love her and just want to take a single day out, away from everything, to spend together. Find something she's willing to do with you, like dinner & a (cheap) movie. (We sneak in our canned drinks, disposable cups, and snacks - at most, we buy popcorn.) Spend the day getting to know the REST of her -- the part that doesn't have to lie to you. The lying and drinking isn't who she is; it's what's she's doing.
ALSO - and this is VERY important - get to know her friends and get them liking you. The easiest way to do this is to treat them all to dinner out one night. They'll appreciate what you did for them, but there's a sneaky 'extra' involved. The next time she's doing something really stupid, her friends will stand up for you! I've actually seen this. It works great. I was 14 years old with a terrible, bad influence of a friend. My mom couldn't stand her, but she always made her feel welcome. She did a lot for her. One day I stupidly ran away from home. Literally had an APB out on me and everything. Guess WHO told me that my mom was beside herself with grief, that I should go home and beg for my mom's forgiveness? Yep, that friend my mom couldn't stand!
I know it sounds crazy, but these are things that will help. No, they won't fix life, but they'll make it better. Try not to think in absolutes, either. For example, when she starts her crap, don't think, "Man, here we go again." You're starting to think of all that fighting in the future. Try to find a new way to fix the problem. Try to look past her rants and find out why she's upset and if there's anything you can do. Show her that you're still her mom, no matter what a big jerk she can be. :-)

I feel for you. I always thought I was a good mum ,not perfect. And I've got seven children. I am soft and used (well you never get used to it)being treated like crap by people.
My second oldest daughter got pregnant. And I have supported her and her daughter who is now 18 months.
My relationship with my partner is not perfect .Both my daughter and partner seem to need me but not love me. Neither supports me if one is abusing me.
My daughter screams ,threatens ,hits,blackmails,manipulates,spits,breaks things,and says really horrible things. She won't leave. Then she will be nice.
I can hardly give you advice and if like me you don't backup it's hard.
Kick her out ,take back your life. Don't feel guilty about being happy for once. Her behavior is her responsibility not yours.People are all individuals mothers only help them get to a age they become independent.

To all you moms who have commented above, my sister (10yrs old)and I (24yrs) have read most of your comments and we want to show you some love. We feel for you and it brings major sorrow to read about the pain that your daughters have caused you. Please have faith and trust in God that everything will be all right! We don't know you but we have love for you! If you ever need anyone to speak to please contact us : >email address removed< many blessings your ways and hope it all goes well. Don't LOSE FAITH! GOD Won't EVER MAKE YOU GO THROUGH SOMETHING YOU Aren't STRONG ENOUGH TO HANDLE!

Don't post your email address here. {removed for her safety -ed.}