I have a son-in-law who is any parents worst nightmare. He won't hold a job for any period, is a co-dependent type (his family), does not have a high school diploma and has a common law marriage with my stepdaughter. They have had 3 illegitimate children (they do take reasonable good care of them). He has done a lot to anger my husband and I through the years. We have done a lot to help them out (given used furniture, clothing for the kids and two loans -only one repaid). We are to the point we are never going to loan them money and are not going to give them anymore furniture, etc. He relies on the state to provide healthcare and sometimes food. This last Christmas, he informed people at the table what we paid on our home taxes. I wondered how he knew. A couple of days later I asked him about it on line. He had had some private detective training. He said he was looking up our address. Funny thing though, he knew all the information on both pages on the website. I told him if all he needed was our address he could have called. I blasted him and told him I thought he was being nosy. I told him I knew getting public information was legal, but it was unethical to do that to family. He told us, "as long as you have nothing to hide, no harm done". My husband didn't appreciate his attitude either. The next week or two after that, someone (not me) called the Department of Human Services on them and someone from the state went out to check on the children. He assumed it was me and sent out an e-mail with our comments to each other over the tax information (which just proved my point he looked information up on line about us). He also informed both sides of the family that DHS came out to their home. He blamed me personally and this e-mail was sent to his mother, my in-laws and all our adult children. Our other children and my in-laws know I wouldn't call DHS. I feel his side of the family will believe him. So I don't feel welcome there and if I was, feel his family would really give me the cold shoulder or make some nasty comments. So, tonight is our grandson's birthday. My husband went there and I stayed home. The big question for all of you is: IT IS LEGAL TO LOOK UP PUBLIC INFORMATION, BUT IS IT ETHICAL TO DO SO ON FAMILY MEMBERS? WHAT TO DO ABOUT THE SOCIAL SITUATIONS? I have no use for my son-in-law, but do care about my stepdaughter and grandchildren. My stepdaughter has cancer on top of it all!

I failed to mention it was the County Assessors website he used to look up our information.

He somehow felt the need to look up your finances. Why? Was it because you were looking to get the money owed to you(rightfully so)? Or was it the fact that you have closed the "bank" to him(again, rightfully so)?

Yes, it is quite unnecessary for him to pry into your business. But would you expect anything less from HIM?

If you truly did not call the authorities on them, I would send out an e-mail to all parties involved stating that fact. Including how much you love your daughter and her children, and how you wouldn't want anything to happen to them.

Then wash your hands of him. Your daughter's choice of men is questionable, to say the least. You gave birth to your daughter, not him.

It's a shame what you are going through.

God bless you , your daughter especially, and her children.

And yes it is public record for all to see. That includes nosy, childish, jacka$$ son-in-laws.

What you pay for property tax is public knowledge, no secret, I can look up almost anyone's property tax, and you can look mine up if you had my address.

I actually do look up other tax values on similar homes in my area for reasons of appeal mine if I see others getting their lowered.

Locally here in GA, I can look up all the past sales, tax values, if taxes are paid to date, a drawing of the home, a photo of the home, who the mortgage is with and more

Is your daughter also unemployed? Do they both collect welfare? Are they able bodied people who could work?

With two children to support, they should not be taking out loans they cannot repay, and you should not be providing loans that you know they can't pay back. I'd say you were lucky to have the first loan cleared up.

Why anyone would want to find out how much tax you pay is beyond me, unless it was to prove a point that your house is worth so much, so you can afford to loan them more money? While it may be a matter of public record that such information is available to find, I'd be wondering what kind of person would do that in the first place.

You say that the children are reasonably well cared for, and that part of the family relationship was okay until you 'outted' him so to speak for his unnecessary snooping, which anybody would question I would think. I know I would. What he has done is painted himself into a corner. He thinks he has paid you back for challenging him on what he did, by calling the CPS. What the person did who did call, was likely open up a can of worms more to do with receiving government assistance under false pretences.

Somebody is paying for healthcare and food if neither are working.

I would like to say that I would not be affected by his accusation of calling in CPS, but, I know I would feel as you do, and would stay away too. Especially with him involving the entire family flock. Eventually this will blow over, the kids are fine as you said, and he has shown his true colours- again. Let's hope that others don't put any stock in what he says about other people, being an obvious deadbeat himself.

Concentrate on the relationship with your grandchildren; they are the ones that will most benefit from having you in their lives. I'm thinking you are likely an 'oasis' for them- a reprieve.

And I agree- no more money, and I'd be switching to gift certificates in the future to cover Christmasses.

Hi mlove48,

You can hold your head high knowing that in the past you have done your level best to help them all,from furnishings for their home,to clothes for the children and finally money on more than one occasion.

I think you now need to refrain from lending any more money, as long as you give they will take... stop, maybe he will go and find himself some honest work, instead of causing unnecessary upset amongst the rest of the family.

I feel all of this situation will give him some sort of kick, try not to rise to his bate.

You've already given him an answer on the DHS call, therefore there is no need to constantly defend this, people may say you protest too much...

I am sure that there are members of your family who know that you would not do this,who would not necessarily take what you son in law says as gospel, they will decide for themselves.

If the in- laws are bothered, then I am surprised that they have not phoned you, if only to vent...

Something here doesn't quite feel right, are you sure that this whole story hasn't been manufactured just because your son-in-law couldn't squeeze any more money out of you!!

I think he is a very crafty, manipulating control freak, who I would be extremely careful of in the future.

Definitely not to be trusted

I have a son-in-law who is any parents worst nightmare. He won't hold a job for any period of time, is a co-dependent type (his family), does not have a high school diploma and has a common law marriage with my stepdaughter. They have had 3 illegitimate children (they do take reasonable good care of them). He has done a lot to anger my husband and I through the years. We have done a lot to help them out (given used furniture, clothing for the kids and two loans -only one repaid). We are to the point we are never going to loan them money and are not going to give them anymore furniture, etc. He relies on the state to provide healthcare and sometimes food. This last Christmas, he informed people at the table what we paid on our home taxes. I wondered how he knew. A couple of days later I asked him about it on line. He had had some private detective training. He said he was looking up our address. Funny thing though, he knew all the information on both pages on the website. I told him if all he needed was our address he could have called. I blasted him and told him I thought he was being nosy. I told him I knew getting public information was legal, but it was unethical to do that to family. He told us, "as long as you have nothing to hide, no harm done". My husband didn't appreciate his attitude either. The next week or two after that, someone (not me) called the Department of Human Services on them and someone from the state went out to check on the children. He assumed it was me and sent out an e-mail with our comments to each other over the tax information (which just proved my point he looked infomation up on line about us). He also informed both sides of the family that DHS came out to their home. He blamed me personally and this e-mail was sent to his mother, my in-laws and all our adult children. Our other children and my in-laws know I wouldn't call DHS. I feel his side of the family will believe him. So I don't feel welcome there and if I was, feel his family would really give me the cold shoulder or make some nasty comments. So, tonight is our grandson's birthday. My husband went there and I stayed home. The big question for all of you is: IT IS LEGAL TO LOOK UP PUBLIC INFORMATION, BUT IS IT ETHICAL TO DO SO ON FAMILY MEMBERS? WHAT TO DO ABOUT THE SOCIAL SITUATIONS? I have no use for my son-in-law, but do care about my stepdaughter and grandchildren. My stepdaughter has cancer on top of it all!

Jake 2008 - No neither of them were employed this past year. Our son-in-law quit his job, so people who donate money to patients at the hospital would cover my stepdaughter's chemo and radiation. There was no way they could cover that, without insurance. He has recently started truck driving (a job my husband found for him). They paid cash for a run down housetrailer over a year ago, when he got his WC settlement. When he got the nearly $10,000 life insurance advance payment from us, he paid his lot rental and utililties in advance. They used this money plus welfare to pay for food, clothes, etc. this last year. My stepdaughter was in special education in high school and couldn't earn enough money to pay for the day care for her 3 children. I think with him away on the road, her working and trying to run a household alone would be overwhelming for her. With cancer, she doesn't need the stress and fatigue. She is in remission now. My husband went to their home last night for a grandchild's birthday party. He talked privately to them and our son-in-law said it was in the past more or less and everything was okay now. Well, no isn't okay. I don't want to be around his family, with them thinking I called DHS on them. I sent him a letter letting him know how wrong he was about most of the things he said in his e-mail to family (weeks ago). He had talked about doing a lot for us, like yard work one summer. Well, doing the yard work that summer allowed him to work off a loan we had made them, that they didn't pay back. My husband and I have had around 16 surgeries in the last 10 years (all but two orthopedic). Did they ever come see us in the hospital or at home after surgery? No Did they ever offer to drive us to physical therapy or the surgeon, when we weren't allowed to drive? No. We gave them a lot of used furniture and clothing for the children. A lot of the furniture he just left in apratments, when they were evicted. I haven't given them furniture in several years now. I never got any response to my letter and he never sent out an e-mail to both sides of the family letting them know he had lied about a number of things. He doesn't have enough honor and integrity to let others know he was wrong. I may send out an e-mail to his family. I am just afraid if I went to family gatherings, his family would give me the cold shoulder or make sarcastic remarks to me. I just wouldn't feel comfortable. I don't want to miss seeing the granchildren, Christmas, birthdays, etc.

FR_chuck - I know looking up public information is legal, that wasn't the issue. There are reasons to look things up, like business, etc. He told me he looked up when our house sold in the past and for how much. He said we got screwed. Well we didn't. Our home appraised at $17,000 more than we paid for it. He has never purchased a real home in the past. He knows nothing about property values. It wasn't just our address he looked up. Besides, aren't the records kept by address? Does a family member really NEED to look things up or was he just being nosy. I feel it was unethical to do that to your in-laws. Who knows, he may have been trying to figure out our net worth. He could have looked up other information too, like police records (not that we have police records). I would never look up information on any family member. If family wanted me to know things, they would tell me. It isn't a legal issue it is a moral ethical issue. How would you feel if one of your family members looked up information on you and then discussed it at the dinner table during a family gathering? It wasn't any other family member's business how much we paid on taxes or for our home for that matter. He should have kept his mouth shut. His attitude was such, that he didn't care if we objected to him looking things up on us. He used sarcastic language in discussing the matter. My husband was furious about his attitude. We are talking about someone with no clue about appropriate behavior in dealing with others. In his e-mail he told family I didn't like children and only tolerated his. Well, I have never been wild about other people's kids, but loved my own and my grandchildren. His children are badly behaved at times. I don't appreciate that type of behavior, but still love them. I blame the partents for not doing a better job parenting. Nearly everyone in our family feel he is "worthless". He took our grandchildren dumpster diving for aluminum cans at the University of Oklahoma, allowed his daughter to take $40.00 from a drunk, uses welfare regularly, won't hold a stable job and he and our stepdaughter were selling plasma to help with expenses. When she got cancer, she quit selling her plasma. He has lived out of his car before, lived with faimly members multiple times, since he couldn't provide a roof over their heads. We never let them live with us. His whole family are co-dependent types. Let's face it, this guy is any parents worst nightmare!

Some other comments about him and the incident were, "what an idiot. I mean what an idiot", "that was really stupid", "what is wrong with him" and "that is going too far". They have tolerated him in the past and feel he has ruined my stepdaughter's life. I don't think having 3 illegitimate children and a common law marriage is acceptable. They live a life of poverty, use everyone and everything they can to get others to pay their way. Well, we aren't paying their way anymore in any way. I wish none of them any ill will and pray my stepdaughter remains in remission.

What you pay for property tax is public knowlege, no secret, I can look up almost anyones property tax, and you can look mine up if you had my address.

I actually do look up other tax values on simular homes in my area for reasons of appeal mine if I see others getting their lowered.

Locally here in GA, I can look up all the past sales, tax values, if taxes are paid to date, a drawing of the home, a photo of the home, who the mortage is with and more

Sounds like you have reason to be looking up information. If it is business that is another matter. I personally feel he was trying to figure out our net worth. It isn't a legal issue, it is a moral ethical issue. How would you feel if a family member looked up financial information on you and then discussed it at the dinner table, during family gathering like Christmas. It was not need to know information for our other adult children and grandchildren either. There was no good reason, other than being nosy to look the information up. He should have kept his mouth shut. When we confronted him about the matter, his sarcastic attitude really made my husband angry. Other family member's responses about the incident (since he sent them the copies of the e-mails, were, "what an idiot. I mean what an idiot. That was really stupid. He is worthless. That was going too far. By sending a copy of the e-mails, he just proved Mary's point". My stepdaughter has had a life of poverty with him, since he won't hold down a job for any period. Has had the two of them selling plasma to get by. Has lived with his family members multiple times, since he couldn't keep a roof over their heads. Has a common law marriage and 3 illegitimate children with my stepdaughter. Uses welfare and the state to help provide food and healthcare. This is the tip of the iceburg. He has been any parents worst nightmare. If my stepdaughter hadn't been in special education, she would probably have left him and had a better life with someone else. She has cognitive deficits and doesn't see him for the controlling abusive person he is. About ten years ago, she was married to someone else for 3 months and he went to see her, when her husband was at work in the evenings. He convinced her she should leave her husband and he moved her in with him and his wife, who was pregnant. Within a few weeks he moved his pregnant wife out and my stepdaughter then ended up pregnant. He has no morals, ethics, honor or integrity. I wish none of them any ill will, but have cut then off from any financial help from us. This gives you some idea of the type of person he is.

Oh my God mlove, there is so much more to this than originally thought.

I feel overwhelmed for you, I can only imagine how you feel.

Considering all that has gone on with him and his family, it does not surprise me that somewhere along the line it was a neighbour or a friend of theirs perhaps, that made the call to the CPS.

All the more reason for you not to send an email to family members. Nothing will be accomplished- you are only feeding into a lie, even though you are totally innocent, by you making reference to what he has accused you of in any way, you are stepping into his murky waters. I would keep silent. And I doubt that there would be an apology coming from anything you could do to set the record straight.

I do hope as well that your step daughter remains in remission.

It seems like you could provide a hundred fold what you already have, and they would still need more, and their circumstances wouldn't improve anyway. I am glad you have reached your limit in that regard, and that you keep your own home off limits.

I admire you for having your own moral compass to say the least. Your personal standards are something they are familiar with too. I hope they together realize how important you are in the grandchildren's lives, and even if they don't, I still say you are a Godsend for them.

Maybe these kids will do better in life, because of you.

Is your daughter also unemployed? Do they both collect welfare? Are they able bodied people who could work?

With two children to support, they should not be taking out loans they cannot repay, and you should not be providing loans that you know they can't pay back. I'd say you were lucky to have the first loan cleared up.

Why anyone would want to find out how much tax you pay is beyond me, unless it was to prove a point that your house is worth so much, so you can afford to loan them more money? While it may be a matter of public record that such information is available to find, I'd be wondering what kind of person would do that in the first place.

You say that the children are reasonably well cared for, and that part of the family relationship was okay until you 'outted' him so to speak for his unnecessary snooping, which anybody would question I would think. I know I would. What he has done is painted himself into a corner. He thinks he has paid you back for challenging him on what he did, by calling the CPS. What the person did who did call, was likely open up a can of worms more to do with receiving government assistance under false pretences.

Somebody is paying for healthcare and food if neither are working.

I would like to say that I would not be affected by his accusation of calling in CPS, but, I know I would feel as you do, and would stay away too. Especially with him involving the entire family flock. Eventually this will blow over, the kids are fine as you said, and he has shown his true colours- again. Let's hope that others don't put any stock in what he says about other people, being an obvious deadbeat himself.

Concentrate on the relationship with your grandchildren; they are the ones that will most benefit from having you in their lives. I'm thinking you are likely an 'oasis' for them- a reprieve.

And I agree- no more money, and I'd be switching to gift certificates in the future to cover Christmasses.

REPLY:

He has never held any job in the last 12 years or so more than 6 months. My stepdaughter has never really worked. She was in special education in school. If she did work, with him on the road (he now has a truck driving job my husband found for him), I think she would be overwhelmed and wouldn't make enough to cover the childcare enpenses. She doesn't need the stress and fatigue either, since she has lymphoma. She is in remission and I want her to stay that way.

This past year, he quit working so the hospital would find donors to help pay for her chemo and radiation. They also used state insurance and she is now approved for Medicare. He used the $10,000 advance on life insurance we got (from the insurance we had continued to pay on her) to help get by this past year. The year before that, he was drawing workmen's compensation for a shoulder injury. With his settlement, he bought a rundown trailer for them. So he has finally provided a roof over their head, even though it is not in the best of conditions. In the past, they spent most of their time living with his family members, who are all co-dependent types.

Through the years, he has done things like having the two of them selling plasma to help put food on the table, etc, took the children dumpster diving for aluminum cans, allowed his daughter to take $40.00 from a drunk by the dumpster, used welfare regularly, lived out of his car at one point before the kids. As a tax payer, I don't appreciate his attitude and abuse of the system. About 10 years ago, he convinced my stepdaughter that she was unhappy in her 3 month marriage to a nice young man and to move in with him and his pregnant wife (friends). Within a few weeks he moved his pregnant wife out and within a month or two, our daughter was pregnant. Well, they have a common law marriage and have had 3 illegitimate children. With her having cognitive deficits, she doesn't see him as the controlling awful person he is. Since he goes to church, he thinks he is really a "good person" and I am of course the evil mother-in-law. I may send out an e-mail to his family, if
He doesn't have the honor and integrity to inform others he made mistakes and lied. I wish him no ill will, but am through doing anything to help them, other than maybe birthdays and holidays. I would also be there if my stepdaughter needed a ride to the doctor or needed medical information (I am a retired oncology nurse). Thanks for your comments. It made me realize I was warranted regarding my feelings for him.

M Love