Is it natural, or even possible to span an entire relationship feeling exactly the way you felt when you first began it? Aren't there times in every relationship where for whatever reason your feelings just aren't the same, maybe not as strong as they once were? Feelings of doubt, and insecurity have found their way into your heart. The person who for a whole year gave you butterflies every time you were with them, doesn't seem to have the same effect on you anymore.

My question is, what does it all mean?

If you're in love, and you can't stop thinking about the other person and all you want is to be married to them and have their children... How do you, all of a sudden, change your tune. All of a sudden, you need space; you want to be single. Does that mean nothing you felt before was real. Could it have possibly been in true love? Does true love ever die?

If you're on the other end, if your partner tells you that he/she just doesn't feel the same about you as he/she once did... How long do you wait for them to come around. Everybody gets confused at times, and everyone has doubts at times. How do you know what's real? Is it the way he/she says he/she feels now, or is it the deep caring, loving, and blissful feeling that he/she has expressed throughout the majority of your relationship together, possibly even, just a few days before hand. What is one to really believe?

What's so hard for me is that I've once been in the place that she is now. Early on, I wasn't sure if we were meant to be together. I couldn't tell whether we were right for each other. It felt like we were just too different. She nearly begged me for marriage and children, and if nothing else, a solid, meaningful commitment... I couldn't give her that. And so, for a while we were on again and off again. And as time went on, I began to wonder how many you can break up with someone before they never feel the same way about you.

The part that sucks is that, while I still had trouble expressing it as often and as meaningfully as she needed, over time, my feelings for her grew to heights I never thought possible. Though it may not seem like it to her, I'd do ANYTHING for her. But it's becoming apparent that as my feelings for her have grown, her feelings for me have somehow "changed". I don't even know what that really even means.

One day we're looking at apts together, and we're genuinely happy and excited about it. We're loving and flirty with one another. Then less than 24 hours later, with no real incidence, she tells me she can't do this anymore. She doesn't feel the same, and she wants to be alone... So much so that she can't even talk to me. I try to contact her and I get treated like some cancer she need to remove from her life, when all I've ever done was be good to her. I always did my best to make her happy; although there were certainly times where despite my best intentions, I truly let her down, and from the bottom of my heart, I regret it.

But now, all she can say to me is "Just leave me alone", "I'm not ready to talk yet" and I swear it's killing me. For a couple days, I pestered her. I needed answers. But now, I'm giving her the space she asked for. I only wish she didn't have her friends in her ear telling her I'm no good for her when NONE of them really even know me and certainly, none of them know "us" and what we shared.

We both need to do some growing up. We're both 23 and this is the longest relationship (just over 2 yrs) either of us has ever had. Hopefully one day she'll grow up too and maybe she'll come back to me. I had hoped we could instead grow together, but maybe that's not possible for us just yet.

I bought her a ring two days before she broke up with me... I don't know what I'll end up doing with it..

I've told her how my feeling before. And as many of you probably know, it's a lot easier to say how much you love someone when you think you're going to lose them. She knows this as well, and is much more weary of this type of talk now that we've broken up.

I know that for now, I should simply let her go... move one. Try to be as selfish as she is right now. But it'd be nice to have some insight, maybe even some answers, in the mean time.


I can't believe how long that ended up getting... Sorry guys.

"She nearly begged me for marriage and children, and if nothing else, a solid, meaningful commitment... I couldn't give her that."

I think the apartment shopping hit home to her. She started to realize/think, "Is this really the right guy for me?"

If her dream/goal is to have children, but you are not willing to give her a meaningful commitment. It's kind of simply spinning your wheels, but not really moving towards a common goal together.

She probably felt that you still were unable to provide her with the commitment she is seeking.

Then why doesn't she just say that... Rather than some vague allusion to her feelings. I know she's always wanted commitment, but now she claims that she wants to be alone. What's real here? Why can't she just be straight up w/ me... You know?

I mean, she's asked me to, and I've already promised her, multiple times, that'd I'd never leave her. Now I'm standing here, in the place that she's always wanted me to be, and now she's not here anymore...

I don't think she knows what she wants right now.

She fought for so long and so hard to get a commitment that she may be wondering what she was fighting for. She may be trying to figure out if it is you she was fighting for or just the concept of being in a committed relationship.

She may be scared of waking up and finding out that you changed your mind about the relationship again.

I do wonder if there isn't a clue that you have missed/overlooked:

Then less than 24 hours later, with no real incidence, she tells me she can't do this anymore.

Did something happen during or after looking at apartments that maybe you are discounting but she isn't? Something that may seemed like a joke to you but could have set off memories of the past for her.

Give her some time and space. Don't look for issues with friends where there might not be any (this time at least). Give her a chance to get her thoughts and feelings straightened out so that she can tell you what is going on in her mind.

Remember you have said that in the past you had problems telling her how you feel and with being concerned about where the relationship was going. You dealt with your fears. Let her deal with hers.

She may not be "being selfish" but having second thoughts which she and everyone is entitled to have when they are about to embark on a new phase of life.
As CAT1864 so eloquently put "She may be trying to figure out if it is you she was fighting for or just the concept of being"

Sounds like she is taking a step back and re evaluating things. Did you not do the same thing with her? You were not sure of your feelings. She is being honest with you, respect it.

Remember you have said that in the past you had problems telling her how you feel and with being concerned about where the relationship was going. You dealt with your fears. Let her deal with hers.

First of all, thanks... That helps. I'll let her deal... but I do worry that most of the time, she sucks at dealing... she's so anti-conflict, anti-confrontation that most of the time she just clams up and turns away from whatever it is that may be difficult or troubling to her.

I won't get into whatever it is between her friends and I, that makes for bad blood but it can't be good that they're allowed to influence her at a time when I cannot. It just nags at me...

As far as overlooking things... You may be onto something. There was a time in our relationship where we argued A LOT, over stupid things, seemingly over everything. It bothered her much more than it did me. Often times, whenever we're talking about something she doesn't want to talk about or deal with, she considers it an argument... and in a way, technically it is because I'm almost pulling teeth to get her to open up about things. It's so bad that if we go out on a Saturday and spend 5% of the time disagreeing on something, in her head, we spent the "whole day" arguing. It just reminds her too much of the time when we argued incessantly.

A few days prior to looking at the apartment, we literally had two spats spanning less than 10 min a piece over the course of a weekend. One of them was actually about me not giving her friends a chance when they were (supposedly) finally opening up to me (after disliking me for absolutely no good reason), and she expected me to just immediately pull their knives out of my back and act like everything is kosher. I need more time than that, and so I gave her a pretty flat "No way in hell. I'm not going to forgive them". She was upset but didn't say anything else about it. I know I was being an @%% about it, but, if she had sat me down and tried to help me understand how important is was to her, I'd have gotten over my pettiness and bit the bullet for her... I feel like after everything we've been through, she owes me that opportunity, she owes it to us to talk things out even when its not the easiest thing to do.

Anyway, the morning before she broke up with me, she made a joke about us "arguing all the time", I was kind of put off by it but didn't push the issue in fear of an argument about how much we actually argue (INSANE, I know)... It didn't seem to matter much because the next words out of mouth were "Love you too," as she headed out for work.

I hate that communication is so hard at times for us, but I know she's gotten better about talking through things with me than she has with anyone else, including family. I know that none of her friends care enough to tell her the things that she doesn't want to hear... So, to her I'm the enemy at times. And I hate being made out to be the bad guy for just doing what I know is best for her and for us.

I realize that I'm venting now, but I hope that's okay here.

Anyway, I know her well enough to know that these are likely some of the things that are heavy on her heart at the moment. I just wish she'd let me talk to her.

Nevertheless, I'll give her space for now and hope for the best.

I hate that communication is so hard at times for us, but I know she's gotten better about talking through things with me than she has with anyone else, including family. I know that none of her friends care enough to tell her the things that she doesn't want to hear... So, to her I'm the enemy at times. And I hate being made out to be the bad guy for just doing what I know is best for her and for us.

I realize that I'm venting now, but I hope that's okay here.

Anyways, I know her well enough to know that these are likely some of the things that are heavy on her heart at the moment. I just wish she'd let me talk to her.

Nevertheless, I'll give her space for now and hope for the best.

Perhaps this attitude of her inability to handle things reflects the way you treat her and she does not like it, maybe her friends don't like it. Your saying you know what's best for her, your saying you'll give her space for now, your saying none of her friends care enough about her to tell her things.. perhaps she is feeling this is not a match and she wants out. Maybe she is feeling controlled.
How old are the both of you?

Sounds like she is taking a step back and re evaluating things. Did you not do the same thing with her? You were not sure of your feelings. She is being honest with you, respect it.


The only difference is, when I felt that way, I was completely open about it. I let her talk to me about whatever she needed, whenever I was available. If I ever broke it off because I wasn't quite ready to give her what she wanted, I STUCK WITH HER. I visited, I called to check on her; I never left her all alone, when I new she had no one else.

To be clear, I in these instances, we're talking about her wanting kids or marriage, when I'm STILL IN COLLEGE. Most of the time it would end with her admitting that maybe she was being irrational or unrealistic, or possibly just hormonal. Then I'd usually give her a week to be sure that's how she truly felt, then I'd come back to her.

I never shut her out like she's doing me now. It hurts.

Honestly, I've also straight up asked on multiple occasions if she was sure she wanted to marry me, more than she wanted to just be married. If she's all of a sudden not so sure anymore, I'm not going to be happy about that.

You don't have to be happy about it but you have to respect her decision.
You and she are different people and so you will do and handle things differently.
She has chosen to cut contact. That is her choice her right.
What is the year differential between the two of you?

Hope you enjoyed the good times because now its time to let it go.

Whether you are right or wrong is irrelevant, but what is obvious you both had different views on things for sure. You were unable to communicate, and where you think your building a relationship, she was going through the motions, doing the dance, and just woke up one day, and got slapped with cold reality. She wasn't feeling it, and probably never did. Her words had no meaning, because she was just doing what she thought everyone else was.

It happens, and you better be glad it happened, and glad its over, because she will take a long while to find herself, and you need to be doing your own thing.

The biggest clue that you ignored? She thought any disagreement was a big argument, that you passed over as not important. Different realities, that spell, incompatible, and lack of true communications. You also missed her relationship with her friends as that was a big clue to her not having true friends, just making more from nothing. That speaks more to how she feels about herself than you but clearly her priorities where right there for you to see.

Hate to kick a guy when he is down, but you honestly weren't paying attention as close as you needed to. Hope you learn from this, and I think you will.

No communications=no relationship. Too much playing at it, and not enough working together.

Perhaps this attitude of her inability to handle things reflects the way you treat her and she does not like it, maybe her friends don't like it. Your saying you know what's best for her, your saying you'll give her space for now, your saying none of her friends care enough about her to tell her things.. perhaps she is feeling this is not a match and she wants out. Maybe she is feeling controlled.
How old are the both of you?

We're both 23. It's not solely my opinion that she struggles with conflict resolution and problem solving. She admits it and she acknowledges that when she finally calms down, she understands that I'm just trying to do best by her and she's glad for it.

She's a person that doesn't eat ANY vegetable because no one ever made her eat them when she was a child. I feel like sometimes I have to be her vegetables...

I hate even having to acknowledge this but she's actually admitted that sometimes she feels like I "sound like her dad" when I talk to her. When the reality of it is, I'm just trying to be clear and rational at times when she's genuinely being childish and/or stubborn. I know that sounds bad but heck, I can admit that sometimes I'm also childish, and I can recognize when that's the case and I'll never get upset with her for handling my childish attitude accordingly. Again, it's not like I'm disrespectful or that I talk down to her. I simply try to be as clear and understanding as possible.

I know I sound absurdly controlling, but I'm really not; I'd do this for anyone that I truly cared about. It's all in love. I want her to be the best, most complete person she can be. Sometimes I think that I want more for her than she wants of herself. I definitely expect more of her than she's really used to anyone expecting of her. I know that she's stronger and smarter than she ever gives herself credit for.

Hope you enjoyed the good times because now its time to let it go.

Whether you are right or wrong is irrelevant, but what is obvious you both had different views on things for sure. You were unable to communicate, and where you think your building a relationship, she was going thru the motions, doing the dance, and just woke up one day, and got slapped with cold reality. She wasn't feeling it, and probably never did. Her words had no meaning, because she was just doing what she thought everyone else was.

It happens, and you better be glad it happened, and glad its over, because she will take a long while to find herself, and you need to be doing your own thing.

The biggest clue that you ignored? She thought any disagreement was a big argument, that you passed over as not important. Different realities, that spell, incompatible, and lack of true communications. You also missed her relationship with her friends as that was a big clue to her not having true friends, just making more from nothing. That speaks more to how she feels about herself than you but clearly her priorities where right there for you to see.

Hate to kick a guy when he is down, but you honestly weren't paying attention as close as you needed to. Hope you learn from this, and I think you will.

No communications=no relationship. To much playing at it, and not enough working together.

Isn't communication something couples can work on?

I understand that she has issues, and I'm far from perfect, but if no one is willing to work for love, then it never happens, period. That's my belief.

Honestly, I did see both of those things. I understood how they differed and I worried A LOT about our perceptions of the reality of things that carried on between us, mainly, the failed communications. I decided that we could work on that, and I know that we've made progress.

With the issue of her lacking true friendship, I thought that if I showed her something REAL... REAL friendship, REAL love... I thought she'd understand what she'd been missing. To be honest, the friends she's picked up since we've been together (unfortunately, the same friends that I haven't really gotten along with).. her relationship with some of these people is genuinely a proper friendship. I only wish she'd have chosen individuals with better character; though, I admit that I don't know them well enough to say such a thing for certain, it is merely my impression insofar.

I guess what I'm saying is. How compatible can two human beings really be? Aren't there always things that need improvement in a relationship? Doesn't love require work?

Maybe she got tired of trying to live up your expectations. What you saw she could be may not be what she wants to be. You could see yourself as what she needs but maybe you are not, maybe you are not what she wants. It could be that you two are not a match and perhaps she is sensing that.

Sure you can work on communications, and anything else that comes up. But with couples, they both have to first be WILLING to work together, and ABLE to do the work.

You have neither. Or at least, not enough. INCOMPATIBLE, is how I see it.

Sometimes we do our best, and for whatever reason, sometimes its just not enough.

Maybe she got tired of trying to live up your expectations. What you saw she could be may not be what she wants to be. You could see youself as what she needs but maybe you are not, maybe you are not what she wants. It could be that you two are not a match and perhaps she is sensing that.

I hope not. It's not like I was trying tell her to quit her job or change her life, just what she thought of herself. She was so negative toward herself.

In some ways, for certain things in life, she's given up. In ways she's given up on herself, and I was just intent upon not letting her. She's capable of so much, and I just want her to know that.

She ain't listening to you, and doubt she ever was. Doubt she ever will. Save your breath.

I hate even having to acknowledge this but she's actually admitted that sometimes she feels like I "sound like her dad" when I talk to her. When the reality of it is, I'm just trying to be clear and rational at times when she's genuinely being childish and/or stubborn. I know that sounds bad but heck, I can admit that sometimes I'm also childish, and I can recognize when that's the case and I'll never get upset with her for handling my childish attitude accordingly. Again, it's not like I'm disrespectful or that I talk down to her. I simply try to be as clear and understanding as possible.

I know I sound absurdly controlling, but I'm really not; I'd do this for anyone that I truly cared about. It's all in love. I want her to be the best, most complete person she can be. Sometimes I think that I want more for her than she wants of herself. I definitely expect more of her than she's really used to anyone expecting of her. I know that she's stronger and smarter than she ever gives herself credit for.

The way you treat her IS controlling - it doesn't just sound like it. Every controlling person "supposedly" has the other persons best interest at heart, just like you say you do.

You probably do sound like her Dad. The difference is that her Dad actually did have her best interests at heart, whereas, you were just trying to be in control.

I can see why she ended the relationship. First off, she’s a grown woman who doesn’t need you telling her what to do and not to do. She needs an equal partner that respects her.

She tried to talk to you about her friends, so obviously it was important to her, but instead of you treating it as important to her you blamed her for not sitting you down and explaining the importance.

I’m sorry, but I think she’s done what’s right for her, and you need to accept it and move on.

Okay.. Well if it's not going to be me that helps her get to a place where she's truly happy and loves herself for who she is, and doesn't need anyone or anything to make her happy... Then I hope she finds her way there somehow.

I'll admit, I'm a little tired of all of this too. I could use a break as well... I just wish I didn't have to do it without the woman whose become my closest friend over the past two years. I told her things that I've never mentioned to people who've known me and have been VERY close to me almost my entire life.

If she doesn't come back to me anytime soon, I'm going to miss her dearly. But if it's for the best, I'll be glad. No matter what the circumstance, if she ends up finding true happiness within herself, I'll be elated.


The way you treat her IS controlling - it doesn't just sound like it. Every controlling person "supposedly" has the other persons best interest at heart, just like you say you do.

You probably do sound like her Dad. The difference is that her Dad actually did have her best interests at heart, whereas, you were just trying to be in control.

I can see why she ended the relationship. First off, she’s a grown woman who doesn’t need you telling her what to do and not to do. She needs an equal partner that respects her.

She tried to talk to you about her friends, so obviously it was important to her, but instead of you treating it as important to her you blamed her for not sitting you down and explaining the importance.

I’m sorry, but I think she’s done what’s right for her, and you need to accept it and move on.

You're making quite a few leaps here.. I NEVER tell her what to do, I only offer my advise. I try to make suggestions, especially when something is bothering her. I have ALWAYS respected her.

She's had issues with my friends as well, and she was just as stubborn and pig headed, initially, as I was. But I WORKED with her about it. I worked with her and my friends. It took a while for both parties to come around, but eventually they did. I'm only asking for the same courtesy.

Despite the anonymity here, I won't go into detail about her father, but I will say, he's part of the reason she never thought she was worth much.

You can paint me the villain as much as you want... Maybe you're right to a certain extent, but I certainly never try to control her for the sake of "controlling" her. I just want her to make decisions that she'll be happy with. But I surely, let her do as she pleases.

That's good, then you simply let her do as she please now. Problem solved! Next is dealing with YOUR feelings in a positive way, so read the stickies (wwwaskmehelpdesk.com/relationships/) and learn how the healing process works.

You also missed her relationship with her friends as that was a big clue to her not having true friends, just making more from nothing.

I don't see anything about her not having true friends, let alone making more from nothing. Where does it say that?


You're making quite a few leaps here.. I NEVER tell her what to do, I only offer my advise. I try to make suggestions, especially when something is bothering her. I have ALWAYS respected her.

She's had issues with my friends as well, and she was just as stubborn and pig headed, initially, as I was. But I WORKED with her about it. I worked with her and my friends. It took a while for both parties to come around, but eventually they did. I'm only asking for the same courtesy.

Despite the anonymity here, I won't go into detail about her father, but I will say, he's part of the reason she never thought she was worth much.

You can paint me the villain as much as you want... Maybe you're right to a certain extent, but I certainly never try to control her for the sake of "controlling" her. I just want her to make decisions that she'll be happy with. But I surely, let her do as she pleases.

Hi Ther4peuticH3at,
I just read this thread through and my overall impression is that you view your ex as very much not your equal. I don't think it's a leap to conclude that. You don't SOUND like you respect her at all. If this is respect, I'd hate to hear how you talk about someone you don't respect.

But now I'll make a genuine leap and guess that you generally feel that men are more capable than women and that any partner you have is someone you'll guide through life. Even someone genuinely incompetent is not going to appreciate such an attitude. I think she has done the right thing, painful as I'm sure it was, after being together for two years. I know the pain is very real.

My advice is that you take an extended time out from dating and figure out why you come across as overbearing, entitled, and patronizing---to your partner, her friends (apparently), and to total strangers. Like you said, none of us is perfect. The upside of anonymous web advice is total honesty--down side too.

Good luck!

Hi Ther4peuticH3at,
I just read this thread through and my overall impression is that you view your ex as very much not your equal. I don't think it's a leap to conclude that. You don't SOUND like you respect her at all. If this is respect, I'd hate to hear how you talk about someone you don't respect.

But now I'll make a genuine leap and guess that you generally feel that men are more capable than women and that any partner you have is someone you'll guide through life. Even someone genuinely incompetent is not going to appreciate such an attitude. I think she has done the right thing, painful as I'm sure it was, after being together for two years. I know the pain is very real.

My advice is that you take an extended time out from dating and figure out why you come across as overbearing, entitled, and patronizing---to your partner, her friends (apparently), and to total strangers. Like you said, none of us is perfect. The upside of anonymous web advice is total honesty--down side too.

Good luck!

Ehh, I Think calling him "overbearing, entitled, and patronizing" might be pushing it a little too far.

"I just want her to make decisions that she'll be happy with." Seems pretty respectful to me.

I can understand the part where it seems like he might be controlling if he is having issue with her friends, but it seems like they might not be the greatest friends to begin with. (There might be more or less to the story we are missing)

asking, could you go into a little more detail about how his behavior has been disrespectful?

@ asking

Actually, I respect her so much that I've told her on more than a few occasions that I thought she was a stronger person than I am. I've told her how proud I am of her, and what she's accomplished already in her life. I just won't let her stop and give up on herself, or tell herself that she can't do it, or tell herself that she isn't good enough for anyone or anything.

So you're right, I don't see her as my equal; in so many ways, she's such a better person than I am. In fact, she's the one who acts as if I am somehow superior to her. I repeatedly try to show her that isn't the case. She's changed me in ways I never thought possible. She could do anything she put her mind to. She's AWESOME.

I can see how I might come off to some people, but someone has got to understand me. Here, I'll give you a for instance.

There are times when she'll bring up how she REALLY wants to go back to school, to be one thing or another, to do something she might actually enjoy for the rest of her life. She'll even ask me if I could help with certain things. Then like a month later, it'll come up and she'll start talking about how she isn't smart enough, or how all of a sudden its not worth doing, like she (her contentment) is not worth the trouble. This is the stuff that I'm talking about.

Seriously, what is going on here?! First I'm controlling and overbearing; now I'm a sexist bastard that considers his partner some sort of "project"? Like I'm doing her some sort of favor by "putting up" with her. Like I'm some Christian bringing the word of God to the barbarian... Give me a break. (Not to offend any missionaries)

I'm only saying that people who love each other are supposed to bring the best out of one another; they're supposed to want the best for one another. I support her in whatever she does (as long as it's not hurting her or causing her some great distress). I just try to let her know when she's setting her sights lower than what she's capable of; yet, at the same time, I'll love her regardless. She can do whatever she wants if it truly makes her happy.

About her friends:

This is so crazy to me. Because I ALWAYS pushed her to make more friends, and to make better quality relationships with those people. I swear I've never told her "de-friend" anyone. It's none of my business. Why would I do that? One of the most important and personal decisions we'll ever make, involves those we choose to surround ourselves with. That's wholly her decision.

Often times I would sit and defend some of they're actions, hoping to bring to light what things might be like from their perspectives. I did this even for the ONE friend that I don't get along with. (in actuality I only have issue with ONE of her friends. It just happens to be that this friend has become by far her closest, and has introduced her to many of her other new friends) Though at times I'll admit that I get frustrated with how a few of her friends have treated her. I generally won't say much if anything at all in those instances; it's between her and them.

Eh, I Think calling him "overbearing, entitled, and patronizing" might be pushing it a little too far.

"I just want her to make decisions that she'll be happy with." Seems pretty respectful to me.

I can understand the part where it seems like he might be controlling if he is having issue with her friends, but it seems like they might not be the greatest friends to begin with. (There might be more or less to the story we are missing)

asking, could you go into a little more detail about how his behavior has been disrespectful?
I agree with ASKING. What part of what he said indicates that her friend are not the greatest? It could be they see him as being controlling and they are trying to get her to see that.
I think he is a bit controlling too, talking about what he will put up with for a while or her friends are not good ones, not allowing her to go out with her friends to certain places. Is he her daddy? They are the same age for goodness sakes. He makes it sound like he is head and shoulders above her.
I think she is having second thoughts about him and he needs to respect her decision.


It seems to me you talk about this young lady like she is a child you are mentoring, not an adult woman.
She has told you she needs space from you and here you are questioning her decision because you "know best" that "hopefully she will grow up" I find that controlling.
Respect her decision and leave her alone.

I agree with ASKING. What part of what he said indicates that her friend are not the greatest? It could be they see him as being controlling and they are trying to get her to see that.
I think he is a bit controlling too, talking about what he will put up with for a while or her friends are not good ones, not allowing her to go out with her friends to certain places. Is he her daddy? They are the same age for goodness sakes. He makes it sound like he is head and shoulders above her.
I think she is having second thoughts about him and he needs to respect her decision.

I think you might be speaking from some personal experience that I have absolutely nothing to do with. When did I ever say a WORD about telling her she can't go places?? Hmmm... sounds a bit like a Freudian slip to me. Its funny too, because I've never told her she couldn't go ANYWHERE she wanted to.

I never said I was somehow any better than she is. I fully expect the person I'm dating to be HONEST with me and tell me when I may want to reconsider some of the things I'm doing. So often we get so close to something, so involved, that we can't see the big picture sometimes. She's done that for me, and I owe her so much for it.

And I've already said this, but my beef with her friend has to do with her judging me before even trying to get to know me... Kind of the way you are now.

Geez, I said WE BOTH have some growing up to do. And sometimes that doesn't happen when we don't let it; I was just trying to say that I hope she does let it happen. We're 23 for goodness sake, I plan to spend the rest of my LIFE growing as a person, learning, and loving, and perusing my happiness. I'm a work in progress, and so is every other human being out there.

I can assure I have no personal experience with this, I am not projecting!
I was in error in the not being able to go anywhere part and I apologise. (I read and answer a lot of these in the course of a day and a lot of these problems are similar) but I am going by what I read and you even said she says you sound like a dad with her.
You sound controlling and condescending to me, you judge her friends except those that meet your standards. This sounds like a parent, not a partner.

I think part of her growing is taking some time away from you. Maybe she wants to spread her wings.

Again, who said anything about her friends not meeting MY standards... Why would her friends have to meet my standards? In general, when I speak of the quality of her friendships, I'm speaking with regard to the relationship that they share. If she's talking about how this friend always does her wrong... Stands her up when they're supposed to go out together... Doesn't even speak to her when they see her out... If she really has no meaningful relationship with that person, then he/she isn't truly a friend to her, and she can certainly do better than to call or treat them as such.

When I speak of the character of her friends not being what I'd prefer, I mean it. But honestly, I don't know them well enough to assume their character; it's just that from what I do know, the impression isn't all that favorable. It's not like I tell her who she can and can't be friends with. I just don't always get along with every one of them.

Heck, I don't always like the character shown by my own friends, but I love and accept them regardless. And I give my ex all the right to do the same with her own friends. (I'm also sure that at times my friends aren't all that pleased with MY behavior, and yet they love and accept me all the same)

And I'll admit, I can imagine myself sounding VERY condescending at times. And I work on that. I'm only trying to be clear and precise with my choice of words.


Also, this is me sitting in an anonymous forum, talking ABOUT her and ABOUT our relationship. This isn't me in a room with her, saying TO her, how she needs do yada yada yada, and get her life together. For the record, her life is fine as long as she's happy with it.

I invite you to go back through your post and read what you've said about her friends and how it may be construed.
But anyway, in the future lighten up a bit. Give the girl some space, let her make up her own mind.
I wish you well.

But anyway, in the future lighten up a bit. Give the girl some space, let her make up her own mind.
I wish you well.
:) :)... I can do that.

Sincerely, thank you for sharing your views and opinions. Please don't let my argumentative nature prevent you from posting further.

It does bother me when I feel like people aren't understanding me, and I think that I generally have a hard time letting go of things. So many times, she urged me to "just drop it." But I struggled to do so. If I'm working on a problem, or a program, or just trying to fix something that isn't working right... I generally obsess over it until it is resolved. This is definitely a fault at times. I'll tell myself I'm going to leave it alone, only to end up right back at it just a few moments later.

"My argumentative nature"... Speaking of which, how the heck do I abate a tendency like that? Maybe I'll work on just keeping my mouth shut...

There's the old adage: bickering like an old married couple... How often do people in healthy relationships bicker with one another? I suppose it doesn't matter as long as they're happy together...

Quote by asking,
I don't see anything about her not having true friends, let alone making more from nothing. Where does it say that?
Just gleaned it from what was written.


I won't get into whatever it is between her friends and I, that makes for bad blood but it can't be good that they're allowed to influence her at a time when I cannot. It just nags at me... One of them was actually about me not giving her friends a chance when they were (supposedly) finally opening up to me (after disliking me for absolutely no good reason), and she expected me to just immediately pull their knives out of my back and act like everything is kosher. I need more time than that, and so I gave her a pretty flat "No way in hell. I'm not going to forgive them". She was upset but didn't say anything else about it. I know I was being an @%% about it, but, if she had sat me down and tried to help me understand how important is was to her, I'd have gotten over my pettiness and bit the bullet for her...
Which led to this

Different realities, that spell, incompatible, and lack of true communications. You also missed her relationship with her friends as that was a big clue to her not having true friends, just making more from nothing. That speaks more to how she feels about herself than you but clearly her priorities where right there for you to see.
And confirmed here,

If she's talking about how this friend always does her wrong... Stands her up when they're supposed to go out together... Doesn't even speak to her when they see her out... If she really has no meaningful relationship with that person, then he/she isn't truly a friend to her, and she can certainly do better than to call or treat them as such.
She was having her own problems, with the people she was chosing to hang with, so the conflicts that led to this break up was more a combination of bad events, not just ONE event, but over time, she made a choice for herself, and there is no right or wrong, just too many conflicts for this thing to survive.

I swear I'm SOOO tired of conflict... I need a break. And I need to convince myself that I don't need her... It's just so hard.

I know that for a lot of women, when they tell you about a problem, they typically just want you to listen and console them. I, on the other hand, typically want to help them solve w/e it is... I can't help it. A lot of times I bite my tongue, but probably too many times, I don't. It's frustrating because immediately, when she tells me w/e is going on, HER problems become MY problems. If it's bothering her, it bothers me... That's just how I am.

My friends are now telling me that I was "out of her league" to begin with. I don't believe that. My mom helped remind me that I'm a good person; if she truly loved me, she'd understand where I was coming from. I should have been more wary of someone who claims to love me, but can't even say she loves herself.

I know I'm a good person, but it's hard to imagine a relationship working out better w/ someone else. My friends and family think I have no reason to change who I am... But I worry that maybe I should consider it anyway.

Sorry this is so long!


Okay.. Well if it's not going to be me that helps her get to a place where she's truly happy and loves herself for who she is, and doesn't need anyone or anything to make her happy... Then I hope she finds her way there somehow.


No matter what the circumstance, if she ends up finding true happiness within herself, I'll be elated.

You subtly imply that it'll be a miracle if she finds happiness without your help. That's patronizing.

You say you will be elated if she ends up happy, but really you are unhappy because she broke up with you. You frame most of this as if she'll be so much happier if she comes to her senses and comes back. Hey, it's okay to admit that you are miserable without her. It doesn't have to be about how SHE is making a huge mistake. Who are you kidding? This thread is really about what's good for you.


Despite the anonymity here, I won't go into detail about her father, but I will say, he's part of the reason she never thought she was worth much.

Sounds likely. But the last thing she needs is another person who is constantly evaluating her every thought and act.


You can paint me the villain as much as you want...

I don't think you are a villain, just that you have no boundaries. You see her an extension of yourself instead of a separate person. And she's an uncooperative extension of yourself, like having an arm that has a mind of its own. Very frustrating!


I just want her to make decisions that she'll be happy with. But I surely, let her do as she pleases.

You LET her do things? Exactly. You decide what rights she has. That is not respect.

And I don't believe you when you say you want her to make decisions that she'll be happy with. You want her to make decisions you and your mother and friends will be happy with. That's not the same thing.


I just won't let her stop and give up on herself, or tell herself that she can't do it, or tell herself that she isn't good enough for anyone or anything.

Again, you won't LET her [fill in the blank]. It's not up to you to "let" or not let her do anything. Parents "let" their kids do things. You are not her parent.



And I give my ex all the right to do the same with her own friends.

She has rights that precede your existence. You as an individual cannot "give" her rights.


And I'll admit, I can imagine myself sounding VERY condescending at times. And I work on that.

I support you in that!


Also, this is me sitting in an anonymous forum, talking ABOUT her and ABOUT our relationship. This isn't me in a room with her, saying TO her, how she needs do yada yada yada, and get her life together. For the record, her life is fine as long as she's happy with it.

No. That won't fly. People can read minds. If you talk this way to us, it seeps through in everything you and do and say to her. She knows how you think.


So many times, she urged me to "just drop it."
I can imagine!


But I struggled to do so. If I'm working on a problem, or a program, or just trying to fix something that isn't working right... I generally obsess over it until it is resolved. This is definitely a fault at times. I'll tell myself I'm going to leave it alone, only to end up right back at it just a few moments later.

You do need to work on this. It's one thing to obsess about your own problems, but if someone says you are violating their boundaries (and "just drop it" is a way of saying that) you need to be able to hear that and respect that immediately. Ask before offering advice and really LISTEN to the answer. Just as you would not enter a house without knocking and waiting to be invited in, you should not try to "help" someone make their life decisions without an explicit invitation or at least permission to do so.


"My argumentative nature"... Speaking of which, how the heck do I abate a tendency like that? Maybe I'll work on just keeping my mouth shut...

No. The problem is not your mouth but in your mind. You need to adjust your attitude and that's frankly far harder. But, you know, like you said earlier, ALL of us have to work on ourselves. It's not easy.


I know that for a lot of women, when they tell you about a problem, they typically just want you to listen and console them.

This isn't really a male female thing. Men also need other people to hear their problems and just listen sometimes. That's often what they need most from women, because they may have a hard time finding a male friend who can do that. Sometimes problem solving is what people want, sometimes, just a sympathetic ear. A true friend asks which is appropriate and gives the other person what they most want. Often, it's hugs first, then problem solving. But again, problem solving WITH boundaries.


It's frustrating because immediately, when she tells me w/e is going on, HER problems become MY problems. If it's bothering her, it bothers me... That's just how I am.

There is actually research that shows that, on average, men are more upset by hearing their partner's problems compared to when women listen to men's problems. Not sure the reason for this. But I would say that it would be helpful if you could train yourself to listen to her without becoming upset. Practice thinking of her problems as HER problems, not yours.


My friends are now telling me that I was "out of her league" to begin with. I don't believe that

It sounds like your friends have been undermining your relationship. You shouldn't have to apologize for who you are with. If you think you can do better, then you should let her go and find someone in your league.


My friends and family think I have no reason to change who I am... But I worry that maybe I should consider it anyway.

Everyone can change for the better. They are being nice to say you shouldn't change. But of course you can become a more respectful partner if you choose to and of course that would be a good thing. This isn't about whether you are a "good person" or a bad one. Things aren't that black and white. Plus it's about action not intrinsic qualities. Ask yourself, how can I change my thoughts and actions to become a more respectful partner for my next girlfriend--who will be someone I fundamentally respect and do not feel like I have to improve to satisfy the other people in my life because I won't care what they think?

You subtly imply that it'll be a miracle if she finds happiness without your help. That's patronizing.
You say you will be elated if she ends up happy, but really you are unhappy because she broke up with you. You frame most of this as if she'll be so much happier if she comes to her senses and comes back. Hey, it's okay to admit that you are miserable without her. It doesn't have to be about how SHE is making a huge mistake. Who are you kidding? This thread is really about what's good for you.

Of course, I'm kind of miserable right now. What, did you think I wasn't aware of that, or somehow afraid to admit it? And yes, I think highly enough of myself and our relationship to say that I do wish she (rather than "comes back to her senses") figures out what she really wants... and yes, I hope that turns out to be me, and what we shared. How bad is that??

I know her, and I know that before we met she was CONVINCED it was impossible for her to be happy on her own (SHE TOLD ME). We worked on that together, WITH HER EXPRESSED PERMISSION. (Geez, do I really have to spell that out?) The only problem is that she will implore me to help her, and to push her to work on it, then a few weeks later she'd totally shut down and refuse to talk about it and get upset with me for pushing the issue. I don't, I CAN'T force her to do anything. I CAN'T DO THAT, I AM NOT CAPABLE OF MAKING HER DO ANYTHING SHE DOESN'T WANT TO DO. And I wouldn't want to be able to, that's the beauty of a relationship.

So, do I think it'd be a "miracle" if she found happiness on her own?? NO. She's more than capable of doing so, it's just a hard thing to do, and she, by her own admission has struggled with it in the past. I'm just worried about her. Why the heck can't you read THAT between the lines?


You LET her do things? Exactly. You decide what rights she has. That is not respect.
Again, you won't LET her [fill in the blank]. It's not up to you to "let" or not let her do anything. Parents "let" their kids do things. You are not her parent.

Are you kidding? What verb am I supposed to use there? I say that I let her do what she wants, not because I'm some merciful God blessing her with free will. I'm just saying that I don't get in her way.

And when I say I won't let her do things that are self defeating and degrading to herself, I mean it the same way I wouldn't let my friend drive drunk, or drop out of college because of a breakup. Again the term LET refers only to me getting in the way, advising one thing or another, not pulling my hand out of some puppet. People have to do what's best for themselves, and they have to come to conclusions and decisions on their own. Friends, GOOD friends, step in and TRY to make a difference when they are needed (WHEN APPROPRIATE).


No. That won't fly. People can read minds. If you talk this way to us, it seeps through in everything you and do and say to her. She knows how you think.

People can't read minds. People make assumptions based on their own beliefs.


You see her an extension of yourself instead of a separate person. And she's an uncooperative extension of yourself, like having an arm that has a mind of its own. Very frustrating!

I thought that when you're in a relationship, your partner is, IN MANY WAYS, an extension of yourself, and you of them. You become ONE. Not to say that you can't be your own person or have your own individuality, but in terms of the relationship and your journey through life, you are together, you are one. I mean, you maintain your sense of self, buy you're a team working together... I don't know how to better explain it, but I'm sure somebody will get my drift.

Anyway, she's not my unruly hand, because I'd just cut it off and be done with it. She's her own person, I just want her to be her own person and still want to be with me. NOT THAT I AM OR COULD EVER FORCE HER TO WANT ME. It's just my wish.

I appreciate your input, and I really thank you for reading through my novel of a post here. I understand a lot of what you're saying, I just have to contend a few things.

:) :) ... I can do that.

Sincerely, thank you for sharing your views and opinions. Please don't let my argumentative nature prevent you from posting further.

It does bother me when I feel like people aren't understanding me, and I think that I generally have a hard time letting go of things. So many times, she urged me to "just drop it." But I struggled to do so. If I'm working on a problem, or a program, or just trying to fix something that isn't working right... I generally obsess over it until it is resolved. This is definitely a fault at times. I'll tell my self I'm going to leave it alone, only to end up right back at it just a few moments later.

"My argumentative nature"... Speaking of which, how the heck do I abate a tendency like that? Maybe I'll work on just keeping my mouth shut...

There's the old adage: bickering like an old married couple... How often do people in healthy relationships bicker with one another? I suppose it doesn't matter as long as they're happy together...

This could be part of the problem with her. Your need to be Mr. fix it! You want to fix her life and fix her and maybe she is just tired of being with someone who thinks she needs to be fixed.
Learning to keep your mouth shut will help. You may have the answers but sometimes a person needs to figure things out on their own. And not everything thought necessarily needs to be voiced.

Lol, w/e... I'm done with this post.

I don't want anything for her anymore. There's plenty I haven't said here, and I don't need to. Bottom line, its over.

You are free to explore your world, enjoy!

So yesterday I found out she left me for someone else, all the while telling me she just wanted to be alone/she wanted to be on her own again... The funny thing is, this guy had been pursuing her since December. And I knew what was going on, I was kind of crossed because felt like she was "letting" him make advances, instead of just ending it. But I never brought it up, I TRUSTED her... with all her "I love you" "You're my whole world" "You're the only one I ever want to be with" "You're my soulmate" "I've never felt this way about anyone else"...

For anyone whose kept up with this thread, I've been beating my brains out trying to figure out what I had done that was so wrong... Everything was good, then without incidence she had totally changed stripes on me. Yet, what I had missed was this guy professing his love to her in a Facebook message and her reading it in the hours between waking up next to me and coming home from work (to break up with me)...

And now I just feel so stupid. I ignored my better judgment in favor of trust and love and a hope for the best... God, I could do so many hateful, unspeakable things right now.

I get that I'm lucky she out of my life now. I wouldn't want to share my life with someone like her. I'm just so ANGRY. I mean, this is more than anger... It weighs on my heart, every thought, every feeling I have is soaked in it. I don't want to carry this around any longer than I have to. I don't want to become something I've never been.

I'm sorry you are hurt, but unless she is just a total "B" people don't just change without incidence. Another person cannot just walk into your life unless there is an open or cracked door.
At any rate you have an answer so it's time to let this go. I have a feeling you will be able to do it quickly.

Right, so her betrayal is somehow partly MY fault? Are you kidding me?

No I didn't say that!
What I mean is, there were some problems in the relationship.
When things are going well, when people are happy another person cannot just walk in and take the heart of a person.
If this guy had been after her for several months, there was a crack there, she was letting him in.

Isn't it her responsibility to "seal all the cracks" when she makes a commitment to someone else? I mean, should I really have to worry that she's going to leave me for someone else the moment things cease to be perfect between us?

It is the responsibility of both of you to maintain a relationship.
If a couple is having problems they both have to work on fixing the problem.

If my husband seems to be unhappy or bothered by something, I can't leave it up to him to figure it out and fix it, as his partener, I am to try and find out what the problem is too, do what I can to help, it could be something I'm doing. You work together.

When you see a man sniffing around your lady and she seems to be looking in that direction, you don't just assume she loves you so much it doesn't matter. If she is looking, she has taken part of her eye off you. Step up your game, talk to her, spend time with her, see if there is something you are doing that has cause her attention to be taken away from you. Take her back to where you too started.
Couples often fall apart because they begin to take each other for granted. They assume the person is goig to always be there no matter what, so they don't give that extra kiss, spend that extra time say that I love you.

If you don't put air in your tires every now and then, they will go flat. You can't assume they are fine just because they are not flat.
There are generally warning signs, it is up to both of you to pay attention.

Isn't it her responsibility to "seal all the cracks" when she makes a commitment to someone else? I mean, should I really have to worry that she's going to leave me for someone else the moment things cease to be perfect between us?

Wow! I just read this whole thread (as closely as I could) and I truly feel for you! This last point you make (and many you made before hand) I think are truly reasonable, wise points. I've recently been questioning, and grappling with what commitment really means to people, and how easy it seems to be for some people who on the outside seem quite trustworthy, to say they are committed, while literally turning around, and two seconds later spitting all over the idea and meaning of true commitment. Definitely when one commits to someone, it is their responsibility to "seal the cracks" and have the honor and respect for the other person to involve them in the discussion and communication of the temptations, insecurities, and doubts that they might feel. Everyone has doubts... people in committed relationships are attracted to someone else everyday... and plenty of people struggle with how to be respectful and true to the one you are committed to. I don't think anyone is immune to all of those struggles and then some... I just believe that a true partnership should involve putting out all of those issues into the open. That takes a lot of courage and strength, of course, but in the long run it is the most honorable and descent thing to do and what will be best for the relationship.

I was recently dumbfounded when a friend spoke about being totally committed to their girlfriend of 4 years, yet a few months prior he cheated on her (which he explained away as doubts having to do with being young and afraid of the ulitmate committment) and now doesn't feel that he will ever tell her. When I questioned why he didn't speak to her about his doubts and fears at the time that he was experiencing them, and was facing temptations, he seriously responded that it was was because it wasn't "her problem" that it was "his problem," and that their relationship was perfect! I was pretty dumbfounded by that because that was literally uttered in the same breath that he was talking about his total commitment to his girlfriend and how much he regrets having betrayed her. So... I guess I just think that a true partnership should be just that.. a partnership. Your problems/issues are mine and vice versa. BTW, I feel for my friend if there is this great lack of communication after 4 years with someone! Probably will turn out how you describe.. whenever he has a doubt or an issue with the realationship, he will turn elsewhere, rather than communicate with the one person that truly deserves his honesty. Trust is such a difficult thing! I wish you luck...

You had all the red flags before you but chose to ignore them, or act appropriately. Common when in denial, so now reality has you angry, and that too is very common.

You chose a blind trust over real trust which starts and ends with you, but this experience will make you more alert as you move through the grief and healing process.

Give yourself a break guy, as you have shown many signs in this post of getting it, and wanting to do the right thing and are hardly the first guy to be blinded by love, and fooled completely. Those of us who have recognized your dilemma, and like us, you will go through a bunch of feelings before you can make peace with them and cope with them. Its sucks and hurts like hell to be betrayed, trust me we know that all to well, but a lesson well learned.

Just don't act upon anything you are feeling, and in TIME they will pass.

A partner deserves trust, but if you are in a relationship where someone is always trying to fix you, you are not likely going to trust that person. If there is no communication in the relationship you are not likely going to trust.

When something goes wrong in a relationship it is generally a two way thing. A breech has been caused by something.
In a relationship your partner should have your back and you theirs.
If you think there is a problem with your girl, you invite her to share it and she should do the same. You don't say "well that's on you, it's not my problem"
But that kind of trust in communication must be built. If it is not there and built on, it's not going to happen.

This is a great argument for justifying infidelity.

There is no justification for infidelity. NONE at all. It is a selfish, easy way out, instead of dealing with your difficulties, and confusions, in a mature positive way.

You can justify anything but bad behavior is just that... bad behavior, and allowing it, or rewarding it invites even more.

Call it what it really is... an EXCUSE THAT MEANS NOTHING.

talaniman, I'm really going to have to work on this "trust" thing. I'm going to have find something that works. I've ALWAYS given trust blindly and completely. I trust people until they give me a reason not to. I'm scared that if I don't, doubt will creep in and I'll always question people's honesty, integrity and motives. I don't want to do that. I don't want to spend my life looking behind my back, "waiting" for people to screw me over. Blind trust.. I thought it was for the best, I thought it was the only way I wanted to live my life. I don't know what I'm going to do now.

I guess I should just make people earn it... God, that just sounds so much harder but I guess it protects me.

This is a great argument for justifying infidelity.
I am not justifying infidelity.
All I'm saying is it is not the sole responsibility of one person in a relationship to keep things in working order.

I'm also saying that if you have not built trust in the relationship, a person is not going to trust you enough to talk to you.
If you are with someone who criticizes what you do, who makes you feel inadequate, it is not likely that person is going to come to you with a concern.
And if you take your relationship for granted and assume everything is OK, if you don't think you have to work at it, don't be surprised if someone gets your partner's attention.

I'm not excusing cheating, it is that person's choice and fault, but a happy person will not stray and if you are into your partner, generally you know if they are unhappy and you need to try and find out why.

Generally speaking, a man knows what is going on in his house because he is not assuming anything not taking things for granted. He keeps the door of communication open and allows for imperfections in personalities as he has them himself. When something goes wrong he mans up and takes ownership of his part. This goes for both the man and woman.

If she left you for this man, she should have told you that was the reason. Maybe she did need space to find out what she wanted but that is on her.
But there were problems in your relationship. There was a crack there.

Had to spread the rep. but that was it in a nutshell. When you are paying attention, and learn to know your partner well, you will get clues to her feelings and what you should do about it.


I guess I should just make people earn it... God, that just sounds so much harder but I guess it protects me.
Now your catching on.

I don't know that you can make a person earn respect. I think ones actions prompt respect.
If you treat a person like they are beneath you, you are not likely to get respect. They may be subservient to a point, but there is no respect.

"you respect me or else" does not cut it IMO. If you have to force it, it is not there to begin with.
So when you say You have to make a person earn respect what is it you mean?
What is respect to you?

So, today the anger is still washing over me. It frustrates me that my every thought is still consumed by this whole situation. I want to get back to my life, back to being single, back to being oriented with things that are important to ME. But every other second my thoughts turn to her, and him and everything I want to hate about them.

I know if I ever see this guy I can't be held responsible for my actions. This sneaky bastard spent months preying on her when he knew she was already involved. It's not like he would have ever had the balls to approach her in my presence.

The best I can do for now is not to initiate any contact with her or him. But I worry what would happen if I encountered either of them in person.

I talked to my dad about this anger. He said that anger and emotions are one of those things that no one can ever take away from you. His advice was to FEEL it. Let it pass through me, don't repress it and eventually it will pass. He gave me consent to, while feeling this, do whatever I needed to/felt like, short of physical confrontation.

All I want to do is be OVER this. I want apathy to wash over me. I want to never hear from or about her ever again; yet I find myself itching to check her Facebook to see him saying crap like "You make me so happy" "At least we have each other"... I'm infuriated just typing that, but it comes from actual posts he's made to her profile.

Checking her profile is foolish and just keeps the emotional dust from settling.

That's also you torturing yourself, and that makes no logical sense.

Yea, I know... Sometimes its just harder than it should be.

Thanks for everything guys. I've had A LOT of help the past week or so. Thank heaven for family and friends ;)

You said "The funny thing is, this guy had been pursuing her since December. And I knew what was going on, I was kinda crossed because felt like she was "letting" him make advances, instead of just ending it. But I never brought it up, I TRUSTED her... with all her "I love you" "You're my whole world" "You're the only one I ever want to be with" "You're my soulmate" "I've never felt this way about anyone else"....

I think more than anything your pride and ego has been bruised.
This will pass.

Ok.. I just need to put this frustration down on "paper".

I've been seeing a lot of fluctuation in my mood/demeanor of late; understandably so... I go from a blinding fury, to a debilitating sadness, to a warming calm... Still, I feel like for the most part, I have my head on straight. I don't want anything to do with her, I'm happy, and I feel lucky to be single again. I feel like this is what was meant to be.

But then I fall asleep... And I dream. And in my dreams, I take her back.. EVERY time. Its so frustrating. And it scares the hell out of me.

Sometimes we let our own emotions our worst enemy. One of the things your learning is not only do you have these strong emotions within you, but how to deal with them in a positive manner.

Keep building on how you enjoy being single, and don't dwell after having dreams, just get up and get busy with your day.

The dreams will fade over time, and as you replace thoughts of her, and what she did, with better memories.

Thanks.. I'll try not to dwell on them. "Get up and get on with my day." I think I can do that, that's good advice.

Every now and then (like today), on my way to class, I pass by her car parked at an apt complex she does landscaping for. I almost break my neck looking around to see if I can spot her; maybe I'll notice her noticing me. Maybe I'll be able to evoke some kind of emotion from her...

Goodness, I can't wait for the day when I don't even look her way. The day where she doesn't even cross my mind.

I've never had any problems with substance abuse, but lately, I've wanted to go out EVERY freaking night I could. And for the most part, going out is a lot more fun when you're wasted (especially now). The last time we broke up she admitted to having done A LOT of drinking... She had never even been drunk before we met. I guess it's my turn. I just want to go out and get blackout drunk whenever I can. At least then I wouldn't dream as much...

But really, going out has been a blast. I look forward to it sooo much. Really, it's not that I want to drink, it's that I want to go out but I feel like I need to drink in order to go out. I know what alcoholism looks like, and this feels a lot like it... How much of this is normal/acceptable? Should I be forcing myself to avoid this type of potentially dangerous situation? I'm playing with fire here... I'll let you guys know if I start feeling burnt.

During a bad break up back in the day, I developed a killer crossover dribble, and worked on using my left hand in basketball more effectively. I was so tired in the evenings with working out and going to my job, I actually had no time for drinking, or dreams, because I was totally tired. So there are some ways to have good clean fun, without playing with fire. Even for young guys who love to party.

Geez, you're on a roll tal. GREAT advice. I've been keeping busy with work and class, but there's plenty of room to play around in my head during both. I've started my third cycle of P90X, I've been swimming... I'm doing a lot, but you're right (even if you didn't say it), I could be doing more.

I've been trying to stay busy, trying to stay constructive.. but I need to try harder.

BTW, I just drove by her going the opposite way on my way home... Instant fury. I calmed down pretty well though.

Thanks for the insight.

Glad to have been some help, and I think you will get to the point that people cannot live rent free in your head, when there are so many more important things to focus on. Be able to channel those energies from those emotions will lead you to the best way to control them, and cope with them.

But having been dumped so many times you realize for all the feelings, It won't kill you, and sooner or later, you find something else to do, and someone to do it with.

I had typed a bunch of crap here about my night and how I'm feeling right now. But none of it (writing it down) was making feel any better.

Cliffnotes: Had a nice night that turned sour. Had a bit of a mental relapse, wanting so badly to check her mail/status/anything-that-would-give-me-a-glimpse-of-what-her-life-is-like-now. Feeling quite pathetic...

I was, and probably still am so very close to having a major setback that I know I'd regret. Trying to stay strong but some nights its so hard; some nights I'm just so tired of fighting it.

Can someone please remind me why I'm staying off her Facebook and out of her e-mail? I feel pretty good today, but I really, really, really want to know how everything is working out for her. It's petty but it'd be nice to know if she really is happy. I know I shouldn't care, and that maybe I could end up hurting myself, but the rationale in my head says that if she's not doing so well and maybe she misses me a bit I'd feel a bit better about myself and if she's frakking ecstatic and acting happy as ever I can just let her go.

I sound insane right?. What the hell is wrong with me? I still dream about her. I wake up in the middle of the night and wonder if she ever wonders about me (while she's probably lying next to someone else). Am I doing?

I've never had any problems with substance abuse, but lately, I've wanted to go out EVERY freaking night I could. And for the most part, going out is a lot more fun when you're wasted (especially now). ...

But really, going out has been a blast. I look forward to it sooo much. Really, it's not that I want to drink, it's that I want to go out but I feel like I need to drink in order to go out. I know what alcoholism looks like, and this feels a lot like it... How much of this is normal/acceptable? Should I be forcing myself to avoid this type of potentially dangerous situation? I'm playing with fire here... I'll let you guys know if I start feeling burnt.

No. This is definitely not a good way to go. Whether it is normal or acceptable really depends on the kinds of people you hang out with. THEY may think it's normal and acceptable.

But is it good for you? Definitely not and, as you are wondering, it not only leads to alcoholism but probably IS an early form of it. Alcoholism is not just drinking a quart a day; it's also binge drinking.

Any time you are getting wasted, you are damaging your body. If you are doing it several times a week, you are probably causing long term damage to your brain and liver, primarily. Alcohol is a toxin and a drug and it's addictive. It's very hard on the body, so getting wasted is self destructive behavior.

Also, getting over a difficult breakup by using alcohol to numb your feelings means you are not coping with what's really hurting you. Just as important, you aren't LEARNING to cope. In the future, when you are hurting again, you'll be more likely to reach for the bottle, instead of using the coping skills you should be learning now. Life is full of heartache and it's best to learn now how to carry on through the difficult times. Ten years from now, you may be happily married, when something hard happens. You lose a child or a colleague at work. At that time, alcohol will drive you deeper into despair and you could end up losing a happy marriage or other important relationship On Top Of your other problem.

Do you have any supportive people in your life? A parent or aunt or uncle or family friend you could talk to? I sense that you need some face time with people who care about you and can give you the love you are missing.

I sound insane right?.. What the hell is wrong with me? I still dream about her. I wake up in the middle of the night and wonder if she ever wonders about me (while she's probably lying next to someone else). am I doing?

No, you don't sound insane. You just sound like you really miss her. But, for whatever reason, she has moved on to someone else. So you MUST let go at some point. Haunting her Facebook page will only keep her more in your mind and give you more things to think about. I know it doesn't seem possible that she can be more in your mind than she already is, but the no contact advice is intended to help you get through this faster. So more pain up front and less pain over the next year. You will get better faster if you don't keep up with what she's doing.

You do sound like you are having a really hard time. But take things one day at a time and look for things you can work on that will be good for you long term. Again, I would recommend contact with an adult who is a bit older than you. You don't need to confide in them every detail, but let them know you are hurting and could use some time with them--maybe talking, maybe doing an activity together. You need distractions and support.

In this situation, ignorance is bliss... trust me on that one. No need to check up on her, you have to worry about getting things straight in your own life.

Any new information about her is going to tear you apart.

Leave her alone... If she wanted you to know anything... she would tell you face to face.

asking - Thanks a lot.

I've got great friends, and my family is amazingly supportive, only, I often put on a brave face for my family, and I'm pretty sure my friends are pretty sick of hearing me yap about all this. Frankly, I'm sick of hearing her name come out of my mouth.

You guys are right. Stay NC. No bending of the rules. Instead, I'll just make a landmark out of NC. Soon it'll be a solid month. :)

asking - Thanks a lot.

I've got great friends, and my family is amazingly supportive, only, I often put on a brave face for my family, and I'm pretty sure my friends are pretty sick of hearing me yap about all this. Frankly, I'm sick of hearing her name come out of my mouth.

You guys are right. Stay NC. No bending of the rules. Instead, I'll just make a landmark out of NC. Soon it'll be a solid month. :)





I'm applauding! Good for you! You can do it!:)

Seriously, much thanks to everyone here. This place has been the biggest crutch I could ever ask for. It's ridiculous how therapeutic it has been to come here and seek advice and then turn around and give it. And when you're giving advice, a lot of times, it's like you're giving it to yourself as well (if not more so). There have been a few times where I've needed a help and was able to simply go back and look at my OWN answers to mine and other's threads.

Totally love this place. Thanks for making it what it is.

Seriously, much thanks to everyone here. This place has been the biggest crutch I could ever ask for. It's ridiculous how therapeutic it has been to come here and seek advice and then turn around and give it. And when you're giving advice, a lot of times, it's like you're giving it to yourself as well (if not more so). There have been a few times where I've needed a help and was able to simply go back and look at my OWN answers to mine and other's threads.

Totally love this place. Thanks for making it what it is.

Keep us posted!:)

So, it's finals week in this stupid accelerated semester. The past couple days, I've been too busy with school and work to find the space to work out.

Realization: No workout = Miserable frakking existence.

On days that I don't work out I tend to find life rather mundane, uninteresting, a hassle, nothing is worth doing.. Like I'd rather keep dreaming than be awake.

Everything considered, I'm doing all right. I still have trouble sleeping some nights... maybe most nights, but I've been worse. I mentioned before that I drive by her job every other day on the way to class, but the past week, I've been able to forcibly avert my eyes from the direction of her car. Before, it really ate at me to see her car there and know that she was probably fine and that she was going on with her life as usual. Now I care a lot less. I feel like I'm finding myself again, and I'm going to make it just fine.

Don't really expect to ever hear from her again, and it's for the best :)

That is good thinking. Keep it up.

That is good thinking. Keep it up.






I agree.

So I'm not sure who wrote my last post. Whoever he is I'm probably unrecognizable to him now. Needless to say I'm not doing so well.

I feel so worthless.. inadequate.. I don't know what I'm doing anymore, I don't know what I'm supposed to think. I can't remember how I was happy/optimistic or even OK with any of this. People close to me trying to keep me from changing, but I'm losing myself. Just a few days ago I freaking loved myself, now I'm not even comfortable in my own skin.

I guess I could attribute a lot of this to a faltering in my confidence. Then there's a bit of information that came to me a week ago. An old friend stopped by for a visit, and she happens to be fairly well connected with friends of my ex. And just shooting the breeze she blurts "I met ____'s new bf" and I forgot to breath for moment. Trying to stay NC and uninformed, I left the room, but all I really wanted to do was ask her a million questions. Is she happy? Is he better than me? Yet, I couldn't leave quickly enough to avoid hearing that this guy WORKED WITH HER. A month before we broke up, she had gotten a new job, and this SOB worked there too. And I hate myself so frakking much. That month I had had my suspicions. I thought to myself, she's working landscaping at apt complexes... How easy would it be to slip into a vacant apt and do business behind my back? Of course, at the time I dismissed the thought as ludicrous. Now I feel stupid.

How could I ignore my instincts? There were nights she would go to her "friend's" place for hours on end (once forgetting plans we'd made, claiming to have lost track of time), even nights she'd sleep over and I was so uncomfortable with it and she made me feel like a possessive a-hole for feeling that way. Come to find, this guy lived at that complex too. Plus that friend is the one that's always hated me so I'm sure she'd have no problem covering for her. So who knows what was really going on. And I know all that should be irrelevant to me now, but I'm just not in the right state of mind anymore, and all this is killing me.

My life just feels "flat" right now. I'm not numb, I just don't know how I'm supposed to feel anymore. Before I'd wish she'd call just so I could tell her to go frak herself, now I wish she'd call just so I could hear her voice, so I could be in some way connected to her again. What the heck is wrong with me?!

I hope I can turn this around soon, I can see myself wasting away if this keeps up. All I want to do is crawl into a hole and die. Somehow I'm still conscious enough to recognize how much I hate the way I'm feeling/thinking/existing right now and I'm disgusted, I truly detest myself right now.

Why am I letting myself go through all this right now? This is so stupid.

You are having a bad stretch. It will get better. Hang in there.

I have those bad days too, but this was triggered by bad news, you didn't want to hear, clear from the blue.

Adjust, and keep doing your thing, as what you should never forget is that you can't control when life knocks you down, but how long you stay down, is up to you.

Just get back up, and make the right adjustments. Eventually you get stronger, and such news will not knock you down.

My life just feels "flat" right now. I'm not numb, I just don't know how I'm supposed to feel anymore. Before I'd wish she'd call just so I could tell her to go frak herself, now I wish she'd call just so I could hear her voice, so I could be in some way connected to her again. What the heck is wrong with me?!

I hope I can turn this around soon, I can see myself wasting away if this keeps up. All I want to do is crawl into a hole and die. Somehow I'm still conscious enough to recognize how much I hate the way I'm feeling/thinking/existing right now and I'm disgusted, I truly detest myself right now.

Why am I letting myself go through all this right now? This is so stupid.

Nothing is wrong with you. You had a deep emotional connection with this chick and she cast you aside. The healing process takes time. During that time your emotions will be all over the place. One day you will be on top of the world, the next day you will feel lower than dirt. But as time goes on, those extreme balance themselves out, and you start to feel "normal" again. That's when you know the battle is almost over. Don't be so hard on yourself. This is all a part of the process of healing. Everyone handles it differently and you are learning something new about yourself.

Also, the reflection you are doing is good in a way. You are now seeing the true state in which your relationship with your ex was. This will help form answers to questions you may still have about why things happened the way they did. It is good to think through stuff like that, but it's NOT good to dwell. Acknowledge the feelings you have and the answers you find looking back, and then do your best to move on and look toward the future.

News you hear about a loved-one (current or former) will always have an effect on you. Eventually, you won't care enough to think about it anymore and attach the same type of emotion to these things as you are now.

When you get over the anger.. the healing will begin.

I can't believe I'm writing this on my cell but w/e. I swear I've been doing at least a little better than I was a couple days ago, yet it's not good enough. My best friend's girlfriend has a friend that just started sexting me out of no where (I never even gave her my number). I'm not at all interested in her, but at first I didn't know who was txting me. I thought someone was frakking w/ me so I just played along. Once I had figured out who she was I decided to meet her out at a bar w/ some friends (let her stroke my ego... why not?). Yet, as I'm out talking to this girl and hanging w/ my friends my ex creeps into my mind and all I can think about is her. And I don't even know why, I can't help myself. Despite everything, I still need her approval/attention/love, everything is so empty w/ out her some days.

Don't let ransom thoughts of the past haunt and distract you for long. Yes the happen, but that doesn't mean you let them stay for long. Just focus back on where you're at, who you're with, and what you're doing, and they fade away, like a bad dream.

After you have practiced focusing on the NOW, eventually it becomes automatic, and you won't be haunted so much by the past. Takes time and practice, but you'll get it.

And you will have days like that, but they will become fewer. It takes time. Continue to socialize keep your mind occupied knowing she will creep in from time to time, that way it will not be a surprise and it won't bum you out.
When she takes up space in your head, tell yourself you will not go there today.

Thanks yet again for the encouragement. I know it probably doesn't seem like it, but I really am working on this. And I know I'll "get there", it's just that sometimes it's hard to remember how.

Thanks yet again for the encouragement. I know it probably doesn't seem like it, but I really am working on this. And I know I'll "get there", it's just that sometimes it's hard to remember how.





You just have to take it one step at a time. You'll do it and you'll be a better, stronger person for it. Be aware, we are here if you need to vent.:)

An old friend stopped by for a visit, and she happens to be fairly well connected with friends of my ex.

So this same person, sends me a txt this morning. We went through some details about her upcoming wedding (in a few weeks), then (yet again) she mentions in passing some details about my ex. Very vague, she says "Not sure how this will make you feel but ____ leaving you just smacked her in the face"... I mustered up a world of courage that I wasn't sure I even had not inquire any further.

Later, she (the friend) catches me on Facebook chat and brings it up again. Struggling to maintain my composure, I refrain from asking her what the details are. I tell her I don't want to know...

This is SO hard. I don't even know how I'm not like all over this right now. Maybe just that I've made a habit of keeping myself out of her business. Yet, my nerves are crap right now. My stomach is in knots, I can barely type straight...

I would not call this a friend. I don't understand the point of bringing this girl up.
Some people are just so thoughtless and immature.

You are getting better, it will get better.

Puzzles me why you have not just informed your friend that since you no longer are involved with the ex, you see no need to talk further about her. This is more about how YOU handle these situations than about the ex.

Being wishy washy of how you express yourself to friends like these is what's frustrating you so be more direct and let then know the door is closed and you are moving forward.

Take the friend off Facebook and anyone else who is making the healing harder.

You don't need this.

Have to spread some rep. I agree with both of you talinman and KitKat22

I appreciate the advice, but this "friend" is more like family to me. I can't explain why she's been acting this way, I figured she'd know better. Maybe she thinks I'm stronger/farther along than I really am. Nevertheless, I think I've made it pretty clear where I stand, and I don't expect to hear ____'s name out of her mouth again. If it happens again, my "friend" and I will certainly bump heads, but for now, I'll give the benefit of the doubt.

All the same, after all the winding up this brought me, I somehow feel a bit better... Sadly, I think bad new for ___ makes life a bit easier for a part of me... I guess I'm human after all.

I appreciate the advice, but this "friend" is more like family to me. I can't explain why she's been acting this way, I figured she'd know better. Maybe she thinks I'm stronger/farther along than I really am. Nevertheless, I think I've made it pretty clear where I stand, and I don't expect to hear ____'s name out of her mouth again. If it happens again, my "friend" and I will certainly bump heads, but for now, I'll give the benefit of the doubt.

All the same, after all the winding up this brought me, I somehow feel a bit better... Sadly, I think bad new for ___ makes life a bit easier for a part of me... I guess I'm human after all.

Then tell her to knock off the talk about your ex. Be emphatic! Enough is enough!

So, I just broke NC a few seconds ago...

She sent me a txt about a hoodie of mine that she'd found and wondered if I wanted back. I told her to keep it and she responded with a big fat apology for how she'd dogged me. And the last thing she said was "I'm not seeing anyone I know you don't care just thought I would say".

I'm actually still txting her. No idea what the frak I'm doing... This wasn't how I'd planned to handle this sort of thing.

No Comment.

Thanks tal...

Frak I'm stupid. Hopefully I can handle this. I'll try not to dig myself too deep a hole.

I think you two are going to go back and forth until one of you just gets tired.
You don't know what you want and until you do you are going to be playing yo yo with her.
Any advice goes in one ear and out the other.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

The next time she says; "I'm not seeing anyone"... I suggest you telling her this: "that's really great...you need to take abreather and I wish you well, but to be honest, I don't really care".


Just an opinion

Thanks for everything guys (and gals). Without getting into any details, I'm pretty good (pretty awesome actually) after breaking a few rules and risking a loss of sanity, a loss of peace of mind. Really good advice, but not necessarily applicable to me. Now it just feels like I've got tangible proof of the sense that I'm very well adjusted at this point, and I couldn't have gotten here without you guys.

Lets hope so.

Thanks for everything guys (and gals). Without getting into any details, I'm pretty good (pretty awesome actually) after breaking a few rules and risking a loss of sanity, a loss of peace of mind. Really good advice, but not necessarily applicable to me. Now it just feels like I've got tangible proof of the sense that I'm very well adjusted at this point, and I couldn't have gotten here without you guys.

I think you feel good because she isn't seeing anyone and told you this. I know that always gave me a piece of mind when my ex would tell me this. It gave me a sense of comfort and some sort of hope. Just my opinion. Perhaps you really are adjusted and put together as you proclaim.

Thanks for everything guys (and gals). Without getting into any details, I'm pretty good (pretty awesome actually) after breaking a few rules and risking a loss of sanity, a loss of peace of mind. Really good advice, but not necessarily applicable to me. Now it just feels like I've got tangible proof of the sense that I'm very well adjusted at this point, and I couldn't have gotten here without you guys.

You are probably happy that she hasn't replaced you yet.

Here is a Warning:

You are getting an emotional boost from the fact that she hasn't found anyone yet. This is now feeding a sense of false hope that she will possibly get back together with you. You will ride this emotional high until you hear news about her that you don't want to know about. It is at that point where you will crash hard and really start to follow the advice we have given you.

I hope for your sake that never happens, because it sucks...

She will find someone eventually and you will be back to square one. It will happen.

Take the advice you have been given here and leave her alone.

Okay, I need you guys to just trust me on this one. I've left out some details in my previous post, so I can't blame you for drawing some of your conclusions, but for now you'll just have to cut me some slack.

I'd type it all out (details and the like), but I feel like it'd be a lot of typing and a lot of explaining and re-explaining and just a nightmare of trying to articulate an accurate portrait of my mindset and emotions. But the short version is that I'm just in a really good place. I feel like I'm exactly where the universe wants me to be. I'm not on a high, there's no emotional boost, only closure. I'm really balanced right now. It just feels like there was a chapter in my life that is now over. I can take it for what it was, the good, the bad, and everything in between, I can take it and put it (leave it) behind me.

I'm glad you feel that way. Just be careful. Many times painful emotions will rear their ugly head when you least expect it.