PDA

View Full Version : Dog Aggression.


Emily94
May 1, 2010, 09:47 AM
As some of you know my Pekingese has some aggressive behavior, I have figured out what causes it; if I am at the dog park with him (or out for a walk, etc) and there are other dogs around, and one happens to come near me, sniffs me, or licks me, he runs up to it growling, and I can tell when he is about to snap so I grab his mussel and hold it till he stops growling. It seems to be working because he is letting certain dogs around me, but others he won't let anywhere close to me. I'm just wondering if you have any other discipline I can try, or exercises I can do with him at home?

JudyKayTee
May 1, 2010, 09:55 AM
Instead of grabbing his muzzle have you simply tried a "no" command? My dogs are very protective but when given the "no" command all growling stops.

Emily94
May 1, 2010, 10:05 AM
I have tried saying no, he doesn't listen, and then it turns into a fight.

shazamataz
May 1, 2010, 10:22 AM
You need to get him to be less protective of you.

Would other family members be willing to take on some of your duties for a few weeks to try and break him out of it?

Try getting someone else to take him to the dog park and see how he reacts, if he is fine with other people around and not you then you know it's an issue with being overly protective and we can help fix it.

Aurora_Bell
May 2, 2010, 04:01 PM
This is going to be long... sorry :o

Aggression is such a serious thing, and if it is putting another person or dog in danger, than I would suggest you see a behaviorist.

But if that isn't possible, you should probably stop trying to grab his mussel until he stops growling. This is like punishment for him , and when it comes to aggression you should not punish him. Aggression breeds aggression.

So when your dog starts growling, he is saying to you, I am unhappy, something is making me scared, something is making me upset. By punishing this behavior it's like you are saying to him that you don't like it when he gives you any warning. Over time he will stop giving you any warning and go straight for the attack with out warning. This is why so many people report unprovoked bites.

Aggression isn't something that is going to go away over night, you have to take it one step at a time, and be prepared for a lot of relapses. It may be something that is never fully cured. Professional behavior modification has very high success rates.

Next time you are at the dog park and another dog approaches, stay calm and do not put continuous tension on the leash. Your dog picks up on all your feelings, and if you are nervous, your dog becomes nervous.

As soon as you see your dog getting stressed, start talking to him, say something like "hey now..." or "come on" and start walking away, keep a loose leash and praise your dog for following you with a loose leash.

A lot of dogs bite from leash aggression, something you can try is keeping his mind busy with a small stick or ball or toy.

I really stand by the best command your dog can know is leave it. This will help in many situations. When your dog starts to get stressed a simple leave it can relax them more than any thing else. You gave your dog a command and he feels more confident because he has a job to do.

I can see myself going on and on, so of there is anything more specific you want me to get into than let me know, and I can try my best to help you with that.

Emily94
May 2, 2010, 04:28 PM
The dog park is off-leash, and if he is on a leash his aggression hits maximum level, I think it is because since I'm still in control of him his job as a "protector" is more important.
I can't really use toys as a distraction, because since we have two other dogs (That he gets along great with) he doesn't like to share and will growl (But not bite) at a dog who comes near him when he has a toy. How would I teach him a "leave it" command at home (before we went to the dog park) if I used a toy would it work with dogs? Or do I need to use a dog to teach it to him?
Do you have any web pages that might give me some exercises that would work with him?

He is not aggressive with all dogs, he LOVES my cousins dogs (2), and he gets along fine with my grandparents dogs(3).

Aurora_Bell
May 2, 2010, 04:52 PM
I posted some links on aggression, understanding why he is aggressive to some and not others will be half the battle.

A toy is a great way to start with the leave it command. Make sure to use it for any un acceptable behavior. So if he is jumping, say leave it and stop him from jumping (just an example). If he is barking, tell him to leave it and bring him side. If he gets bossy with his other dog - friends, tell him to leave it.


Emily I can not stress enough the potential dangers of aggression. From dog fights to law suites, aggression is not to be taken lightly. If your dog is aggressive in any way to other dogs, strangers or not,and has attacked before, it is not a good idea to take him to an off leash environment.

I am not in any way saying seclude him from other dogs, proper socialization is key. But you will have to modify how you are doing it. Such as walking him in a busy public park where a leash is a requirement.



Controlling Aggressive dog Behavior (http://www.seefido.com/html/controlling_aggressive_dogs.htm)

Understanding & Handling Dog Aggresion (http://agilitynet.co.uk/reviews/understandingdogaggression_bsykes_aclarke.HTML)

Pit Bull, German Shepherd, Rottweiler - Aggressive Dog Behavior Training and Treatment (http://www.dogaggressiontraining.com/dog-aggression.html)

Emily94
May 2, 2010, 05:05 PM
Trust me I understand what an aggressive dog can do, it is devastating. I refuse to lose another pup due to aggression, and am going to try my absolute hardest to fix this! I am not making enough to hire a behaviouist that will cost over $700 a month (Yes, I've checked, there is only two in my city and this is there price). So I am looking for answers, and will be coming back to this discussion quiet regularly with questions, hope you guys don't mind :)

He doesn't really bark, unless someone is for some reason walking on our front yard, which some people think it is okay to hang out in my front yard. If he is barking I can say stop and he stops and walks away, he doesn't chew anymore, he doesn't jump unless I tap my legs and call him. He is a pretty good boy, so I don't really know how to start the "leave it" command.. since he doesn't really have problems other than at the dog park. If he meets a dog on the street he is more than happy to allow me to pet it, but if there was a dog at the dog park and I pet it, he'd be one peed of doggie.

He went to puppy socialization and did great, he went to obedience and got along with all but one dog (the dog kept trying to eat his tail and eventually he got annoyed).

Lucky098
May 2, 2010, 05:12 PM
Aggression is a very hard subject to put your thumb on.

It appears that your dog is protective aggressive. Even though he is "protecting" you, he is still displaying aggression out of fear.

Aggression is not something you can train out of him. He will always and be forever aggressive towards other dogs. The only thing you can really do is to know his triggers, know what sets him off, and be prepared to handle him. Grabbing his face will only make him more pumped. Confining a dogs only means of protection only escalates the issue and makes it 10x worse. He can also get even more overly excited and "accidentally" bite you. So please stop grabbing his face.

There is no remedy to help your dog not be aggressive towards other dogs. However, learning his triggers is going to make life a lot easier for you. Also, there are some things that you can do that will help him out.

People who own dog aggressive dogs always tense up on the leash when another dog is in the picture. Try your hardest not to do that. You have a nervous dog already, becoming nervous yourself is only going to give him the "ok" to be aggressive towards that dog. He is sensing you. When you see another dog, just keep going forward. Don't agknowledge the other dog. Don't agknowledge your dog wanting to stop and look at the other dog. Correct him when he growls.. A snap of the leash and a harsh "eh-eh" should do the trick. Once he stops, looks at you, or at least looks away from the dog, praise him. Let him know that that behavior is not exceptable.

Almost 99% of the time for dog aggressive dogs to display aggression while on leash is all because of the owner. However, that does not mean that your dog is not going to snap while off lead. To keep things safe, he needs to remain on lead at all times. He needs to get over his aggression while on leash.

A properly socialized dog does not need to be friendly with other dogs or people. A socialized dog is a dog that behaves in public. That's it. It has nothing to do with your dog being friendly at all.

Your dog is not showing aggression towards family members dogs because they are still part of the pack. They smell the same, are probably over more often... and everyone's demeanor is a lot different. You're probably a lot more relaxed with your grandparents dog then with a strangers dog. Your dog picks up on that.

Dog aggression training is more for the person that it is with the dog. Because remember, a dog aggressive dog will always be aggressive. The only thing that training or behavior modification really does is train YOU how to control your dog.

My pittie is great with my moms dogs. She's OK with my boyfriends dog. Why? Because they're part of the pack. Everyone is a lot more relaxed. However, a strangers dog, she breathes fire! My dog is VERY dog aggressive. But will she lunge at another dog while going for a walk? No. Will she growl at a strangers dog while with me? No. Can I approach other dogs with her by me? Yes. Can another dog approach her? No. Can I take her to the dog park? No. Can I take her to a pet store, parade, etc. Yes.

Don't be bummed out if you can't take your dog to a dog park. Some dogs just don't get along with others. Be a responsible pet owner and keep your dog away from the dog park. Even though he's not showing aggression while off leash now, doesn't mean he won't in the future.

Good Luck

Emily94
May 2, 2010, 05:12 PM
Just thought I would add that he is neutered and has been since he was 7 months, he is now a year and a half.

Aurora_Bell
May 2, 2010, 05:20 PM
So when he does bark at those strangers who hang out on yard, instead of saying stop, say "leave it". Grab a ball, start playing fetch with him, when he brings it over to you, say the word leave it.

You may have to take an hour a day and just try to incorporate the word "leave it" into your routine. You may have to become a bit more nit picky and bossy with things. If he is sniffing you a little too long, say leave it. If he is playing with a toy, use the word leave it, make sure to praise and give the toy back so he can continue to play.

Use it when you are walking on a leash and if he wants. To stop and sniff, use the command and continue to walk I did mention a few other suggestions, and I already gave you the protocols for relaxation, those are the first step in any behavior modification. So if you were to see a behaviorist in your area, this would be phase one. I will try and dig up phase 2, remember what it is about. The dogs mind frame.


$700 is a ridiculous price! I can't believe that!

Aurora_Bell
May 2, 2010, 05:21 PM
Just thought i would add that he is neutered and has been since he was 7 months, he is now a year and a half.

Aggression will continue to grow until they are about 3 years old.

Emily94
May 2, 2010, 05:24 PM
:( I liked going to the dog park. Your saying there is no amount of training, discipline, nothing, that will ever fix it?
If you are, then there is really nothing I can fix, he is fine in public, he is great with people, he doesn't really like them and would rather avoid them but if by chance someone pets him he sits like a good boy and wags his tail. The first time he met my cousins dog my dog followed him around everywhere, and the next day my cousin met us at the dog park, and I can say that was the only time my dog has never growled/snapped/snarled at the dog park.
Could I use my cousins dog as a distraction instead of a toy?

Emily94
May 2, 2010, 05:26 PM
$700 is a ridiculous price!! I can't believe that!!

Either could I! But since there is only 2 here, and the next nearest one is over 3 hours away someone must pay it!

Aurora_Bell
May 2, 2010, 05:27 PM
Well you could give it a try, however, he could become more aggressive out of protection or jealousy for the other dog.

I'm not saying it can never be cured, I am just saying there is a possibility that it may never. And than you will have to make modifications in both your life. You will have to be able to control his triggers.

Emily94
May 2, 2010, 05:34 PM
If I was to make him sit, place a piece of food on the ground, tell him to leave it and then give it to him as an award for leaving it, would this be a good exercise?

I'm trying to think of things I could work into his training sessions I have at night with him (sit, stay, laydown, come, and stand)

Aurora_Bell
May 2, 2010, 05:37 PM
Basically you just want him to know what leave it means. So you that would totally work.

When I say leave it to my dog Lady, she sits and waits for the next command. Your dog doesn't necessarily have to sit,
But you should have his attention and he should be waiting for the next command.

Lucky098
May 2, 2010, 05:39 PM
Honestly, aggressive dogs that are aggressive towards other dogs will never be cured. The only part that gets cured is how the handler handles the dog. Your dog is always going to be selective of who he likes and who he doesn't like.

Is your cousins dog a female? A lot of the time that is a part of it. Some dogs simply don't get a long with dogs of the same sex.

Take your dog out for walks. No harm in that. I do it all the time. Its very enjoyable. Especially when I go to the lake and let her off leash. If I'm alone, or with dogs that my Pit approves, there's no harm in that.

You're not going to cure him. He's never going to "Snap" out of it. The only thing that is going to happen, is the two of you are going to start reading each others minds.

My dog looks completely approachable. People want to come up and be "friends" with their dog with her. I have to constantly back away. Or, they witness it first hand!

Just because you can't go to the dog park, doesn't mean that you can't do things with your dog off leash. I do things with my Pit all the time. Whenever I go to the river walk or the lake, my dog is rarely on leash. She's got a good solid recall, which is something you will need if you decide to do it.

Neutering your dog won't take dog aggression out of him. The only thing neutering a male dog does is keep them from wondering. If they're going to be punks, then they're going to be punks. Not much you can do to stop your dogs personality come through. Once he gets older, he could very well settle down and not be AS aggressive towards other dogs to the point that you CAN take him places.

Just continue to take him out. Continue to work on yourself. Soon, he'll be a good boy and will behave himself while around other dogs. It takes time.. and by that, it could take YEARS before you get him to walk past a dog on all four feet.

If you'd like some ideas on how to handle him, let me know. I have some ideas that worked with my Pit.

Lucky098
May 2, 2010, 05:44 PM
The leave it command is a good command to use.

How I teach it, is whatever is the "leave it" object, its completely off limits. If it's a piece of food, a toy.. whatever he wants, he can't have it.

To start. Take a favorite toy. Place it on the ground. Keep him on leash. When he starts to go towards it, snap back the leash (Nothing harsh, just a little reminder that you're still with him) and tell him "leave it" in a very loud tone of voice. The min. he looks away from the toy, direct him to come back towards you. Treat him. Give him lots of praise. And repeat. After the session, you can give his toy back after about 30 minutes. He won't have an association with the command and the toy at that time.

Good Luck

Emily94
May 2, 2010, 05:46 PM
My cousins dog is an unneutered male, he seems to like males more than he does females.

If you'd like to give me some of those tips, I think I could use a few!

Aurora_Bell
May 2, 2010, 05:47 PM
I have to say it may not be cured completely, but it can be controlled. I don't let Lady decide where we can and can't go.

She has severe dog aggression, but we are to the point where she can ignore other dogs, and not become stressed out or nervous. We can be in public places and I have no fear of her attacking another dog if it approaches. I also now how to intervene before it ever becomes an issue.

She used to hate my other dog Max, couldn't even stand to be in the same room as him. Now I can take her in the same vehicle as well as camp in samller quarters with out a fight breaking out.

Lucky are you saying your dog would snap at a person who approached them in public?

Lucky098
May 2, 2010, 06:01 PM
Lucky are you saying your dog would snap at a person who approached them in public?

No, she has no aggression towards other people, and quite honestly, I don't know how she'd react if someone's dog came over and stuck its face in hers.

She's very well under control. Very laid back and easy going in crowds of people. She loves little dogs. Very friendly towards little dogs and puppies. She never offers to lunge, snap or growl at other dogs. She ignores them. Some people allow their dogs to wander up to her. She tolerates it for the most part. The dogs she doesn't tolerate under any circumstance would be tall, black, hairy dogs. They're her #1 trigger. My Pit was my demo dog for some obedience classes. She can be in close quarters with other dogs as long as they don't sniff her.

My dog doesn't need to be friends with anyone. As long as she's not pulling me across the street to attach another dog, I'm good :) Which she has never EVER done that lol

But like I said, she's great with people. She's also great with my moms dogs and my boyfriends hairy Golden. She's selective who she likes and who she doesn't. But I know how she is, so I just simply don't allow other peoples dogs to sniff her.

Aurora_Bell
May 2, 2010, 06:04 PM
Ok good. I didn't think so, but I just wanted to ask to clear it up for me. :)

There are lots of different methods that can help you Emily. It's going to be trial and error for what works for you. I used clicker with Lady, along with behav mod. I really hated clicker, thought it was kind of stupid. But it worked. I am all for positive reinforcement.

Emily94
Jun 17, 2010, 10:58 AM
I just thought I'd update you guys a little bit. I started teaching Duke the "Leave it" command, he was doing pretty good so we decided to take him to the dog park. Well he actually tried to fight a boxer and I said leave it, well he did for a short time but then tried again. I put his leash on him and made him sit beside me, I let him go again and he tried to fight another dog. A gentleman then approached me and said he worked with the local rescue and helped them with aggressive dogs. He asked to "borrow" my dog for a second. I said sure and he walked Duke around the park and then took him back up to the boxer and Duke growled and then went to snap at the boxer, the guy grabbed took put him on the ground and held him there. The guy said this is how dogs in the wild discipline each other... Supposedly you hold the dog down until you feel it go calm and then let it back up... I just don't know if this sounds right?

Aurora_Bell
Jun 17, 2010, 11:28 AM
Definitely no a method I practice. And no this is not how they "discipline" each other in the wild.

JudyKayTee
Jun 17, 2010, 12:11 PM
I've heard of this method and it's my understanding it creates a frustrated dog (from being pinned down).

I am MORE concerned that you handed your dog over to a complete stranger AND allowed that complete stranger to put his hands on your dog and discipline your dog.

How old are you?

Aurora_Bell
Jun 17, 2010, 12:21 PM
Judy, Emily is 16 I think, and honestly, I think she is trying to do every thing she can to help her dog. Her family really isn't on board with the obedience classes, and as far as I know, has been using Lucky's training methods.

From what I can tell, her dog needs to see a behaviorist; but I don't think Emily has the funds at the moment. Last I remember she is trying to get a part time job to foot the cost of proper training.

JudyKayTee
Jun 17, 2010, 02:15 PM
I had no idea how old she was; however, at 16 I wouldn't allow anyone to put his/her hands on my dog. Perhaps you can explain - more gently than I did - that this is dangerous and certainly not helpful to/for the dog. Who knows who this self-proclaimed expert is? As I said - perhaps you can explain it more gently to her.

Aurora_Bell
Jun 17, 2010, 02:40 PM
Trying to make your dog less aggressive by showing them you are the boss is a waste of time, Emily, aggression feeds aggression. From my experience pinning your dog and showing aggression is dangerous and could do more harm than good by making aggressive behavior in dogs worse.

When you are pinning the dog to the ground, your dog feels that he is not in control, as he is not, which will only instill more fear in your dog. When a dog is frightened he is more likely to lash out, snapping at anything in his path.

When you have an aggressive dog like yours Emily, unfortunately the dog park where he is off leash is not something you should be doing. Your dog is a liability and one of these days if you continue to let him be in these situations, he is going to do serious damage to either human or dog. Your dog will be euthanized and your family could be sued. And if I am not mistaken this is a pitbull mix is he not?

You need to be in control of every situation you and your dog are in. He needs to be leashed at all times. When your dog is showing aggression, you remove your dog from the situation. Yelling, jerking chains, hitting and pinning are only going to feed his fears. He sees that you are upset, but most likely will not associate your anger or fear with his actions. He picks up on your tension and will feed off that.

Aurora_Bell
Jun 17, 2010, 02:49 PM
Emily, I know you are young, and I know you love your dogs and animals, but think of it this way, would you ever let a STRANGER in the park discipline your kids?

Would you send your kid off with a stranger to walk around the park, and then allow him to spank your child? I know there is a difference between kids and animals but, the theory is still there. YOU need to be in control of your dog, not some stranger from the park. And just so you know, you would have been held liable if your dog turned and snapped at this man.

JudyKayTee
Jun 17, 2010, 02:55 PM
I HAVE a protective dog - she's 140 pounds and I wouldn't call her aggressive. If she even thinks I'm in danger she begins to respond. I would NEVER take her to a dog park - even on lead. It makes her nervous and upsets her. She is absolutely under control and I can call her off with a snap of my fingers... BUT, again, she's not an easy dog.

And as far as the stranger and the dog - there are all sorts of crazies out there. OP is probably fortunate she even got the dog back. People are kidnapping dogs in NY (where I am) and using them as bait in dog fight rings.

Sixteen or not - you HAVE to be aware of the World when you have a living creature under your control.

Has anyone suggested SPCA (or something similar) training? In my area it's free.

Aurora_Bell
Jun 17, 2010, 03:02 PM
I think she lives in a Provence where I used to live and as far as I know the town she lives in does not offer such a program.

Lady is aggressive towards other dogs, I could never take her to a dog park, leashed or not. She only weighs 65 lbs. Not that a 65lbs angry dog running towards me wouldn't make me crap my pants.

I hope I explained it well enough for her.

Lucky098
Jun 20, 2010, 10:20 AM
I just thought I'd update you guys a little bit. I started teaching Duke the "Leave it" command, he was doing pretty good so we decided to take him to the dog park. Well he actually tried to fight a boxer and I said leave it, well he did for a short time but then tried again. I put his leash on him and made him sit beside me, i let him go again and he tried to fight another dog. A gentleman then approached me and said he worked with the local rescue and helped them with aggressive dogs. He asked to "borrow" my dog for a second. I said sure and he walked Duke around the park and then took him back up to the boxer and Duke growled and then went to snap at the boxer, the guy grabbed took put him on the ground and held him there. The guy said this is how dogs in the wild discipline each other... Supposedly you hold the dog down until you feel it go calm and then let it back up... I just don't know if this sounds right?

The "leave it" command is a good command your dog should know.. However, its not going to prevent your dog from showing aggression towards other dogs.

Don't ever let someone else handle your dog. Pinning a dog down in public in a place that they feel uncomfortable in the first place is very dangerous. Your dog could have bitten that man. Don't just let anyone handle your dog because they say they can train dogs. Every person has a different training technique. You should be the one using those types of methods. Your dog knows who you are and is less likely to snap at you (and yes, your dog can turn on you as well). He should have turned it into a lesson, not take over. This is your dog. All anyone can do is give suggestions, not take the bull by the horns and do it to prove to you it can be done. Pinning your dog accomplished nothing. Pinning your dog is a very VERY dominant move on your part. It is a dominance move and it means business... It is not a training technique I would ever advise anyone with an aggressive dog.

I'll say it again.. aggression is triggered by fear. It doesn't matter what kind of aggression it is, it is still fear based. The raised hair on the back of a dog means "I'm scared and I'll fight if I have to" Even tail wags can mean different things, not necessarily that the dog is happy... Many dogs have bitten that have wagging "happy" tails.

I strongly suggest you work with your dog more before you venture out to a park with other dogs. You may never have the opportunity to take your dog to the dog park.. Its not the end of the world. Your dog is not friendly with other dogs. You need to find an alternative for your dogs outtings. Forcing him to behave around other dogs is just going to make the situation worse. You yelling, snapping his leash, throwing him to the ground is only going to escalate the situation and make everything worse. Do you want him to fear people as well? Allowing others to take your dog and pin him to the ground in an area he is uncomfortable in is going to cause your dog to create another aggression feared response.

Do you honestly enjoy taking your dog to the dog park? Yelling at him every time he growls? Feeling embarrassed because your dog snapped at someone else's dog? That honestly can't be any fun on your part. Now just imagine how your dog feels. Everyone's in his space trying to be around you. He's in an area he doesn't like. Other dogs continue to pester him... Why are you trying to force your dog to be dog friendly? Its not going to happen. Even going to a behaviorist and spending the big bucks is not going to cure is dog aggression. The only thing that will be accomplished (and yes, it needs to be accomplished) is you learning the signs of your dog. Your dog learning your commands and both of you learning to ignore other dogs. You still can't go to a dog park, but maybe on walks with other people.. Going to functions where dogs are allowed. Dog parks aren't for everyone.. You need to start to accept that.

Another thing.. Teaching your dog a command for a short period isn't good enough. That command needs to be concrete. From your description, its not concrete enough.. Leave it means LEAVE IT.. Not to go back and do it again.

Good luck..

mrshodges
Jun 22, 2010, 09:29 AM
Just my 2 cents but I have found with my weenie's that if you are the pack leader from day one they behave for the most part lol. I can whistle and stop my male from aggression. He hates new people coming into the house. Always has. He is very protective. He does get along with other dogs though.

Aurora_Bell
Jun 22, 2010, 10:02 AM
Human aggression and inter dog aggression are totally different. It is important to establish yourself as leader, and it sounds like you have great control over your dogs.