Hi all and thanks for taking the time to read this.

I've been with Sarah now for close to 10 years, she is 26 this year and I am 30. We have 2 beautiful girls and we both love them dearly. We would never stay together for them as it would be a worse time for us and them.

I've not been the best partner in those years, I looked for other women at one point though I never had any intention of getting with them was just purely looking. For me it was a hard time in my life we had a newborn baby and I didn't see the PND she had and I was selfish and didn't take her feelings in to account for which I deeply regret.

I enjoy playing computer games and I admit that I had spent more time with the PC then her and neglected her feelings. She had opened up to me on a number of times and I didn't take it in at the time and I hurt her by it. She gave me another chance on the last time I did it but said her feelings for me had changed and she wouldn't know if I could change them. At one point after these talks I fell back in to my old gaming routing for a night and she was upset by it and I did a really stupid thing and ignored her for 3 days after I assumed it was over (I know assumption is the mother of all F*** up’s) she talked to me 3 days later and I begged her for another chance as I do love her. Well nearly 2 months ago she told me they hadn't changed and that she wanted a break. Now I don't agree with a break and was very reluctant to do it but to show her how much I am in love with her I told her I would do it to show her how much I want us to work.

I am due to move out at the end of the month and go on a month by month break, I've told her I am not going to give up on her and I am madly in love with her and will do anything to be with her. I understand that her feelings have changed and I want to show her how much she really means to me and how sorry I am for my actions over the past and that while I did those stupid things I did love her, she tells me how could I have loved her if I did those things for which I cannot explain. I know I have broken her heart but I want to show her that I can make her happy and be the man that she deserves.
I've never been one to open up my feelings to others something which she has said before so I'm on here to get advice on what I should do as right now. I’ve let my emotions get the better off me and have accused her of being with another man which I know she wouldn’t and which I’m not happy with my actions over that. I told her that if she is to take me back my gaming days are over and that I would be fully committed heart and soul to her and the girls.
I know I have to show her I can change to become the better partner and father to my beautiful girls and I do believe she still loves me though she says she loves me but not in love with me but I think she is telling herself that not to get hurt by me again and I’m clinging on to this as I believe we can work it out but I am scared that I have lost her forever and I am deeply in love with her and will do anything for Sarah.

Thanks for reading.

Karl


Also she says she is numb to the love I'm showing her and won't let me get close to her at all not even a hug.

So she was 16 when the two of you got together?

That's very young and she's since given birth twice,had PND and now she wants a break,and isn't in love with you anymore,though she says she loves you.

You admit to not treating her the way she deserves to be treated,and now 'you want to change'.

Change doesn't happen overnight.

And you should want to change for yourself,not to get your partner back.

Your priority must be your children.

What sort of arrangements have you agreed upon as regards your daughters?

Have you discussed counseling?

She would like me to go to Relate and then she said she would join me in going as well. At the moment it will be a min of a 2week NC break and then will discuss about the girls.

I understand change doesn't happen over night and which is why I'm willing to give her a break to show her I can change. I was changing and showing her how much she meant to me but her feelings didn't change within that time and which is why she is calling for a break to be free from me and getting a better understanding of herself which to me is a break up not just a break but I'm willing to do what she wants to make her happy.

Thank you for your reply.

Karl

Relate do individual therapy and couples,though if you start by going on your own,you might not be able to see the same therapist if you then decide to go for couples .

Check that out with your local Relate.

I understand your going NC with your partner,but two weeks without their dad is a long separation for two little girls.

Don't punish your girls for the two of you what your going through. It's not fair to them. Your first concern should be those children, then the two of you.

The 2 weeks isn't my idea it's what she would like. I've told her I want to see them everyday but she needs time away from me and my hours of work don't allow me to finish and then take them out. I finish at 5:40 and around 5-6 they have dinner and by that time of the day they are shattered from the day as they are both very busy little ladies.

Could you take them to school in the mornings?

And spend time with them over the weekends?

Children are quick to take the blame when their parents fall out, and they need to know that you are still there for them.

Mornings they start at 8:30 and I've already started work. The weekends depend on her and what she has planned for them.

The hardest thing for me is that I'm due to move out next weekend and its my eldest 6th Birthday a week on Monday.

Try working something out so that you can see your daughter on her birthday.

Don't allow them to be pig in the middle in this.

We are going out for her Birthday which will be very hard for me to see Sarah but I will be strong for my daughter. After that I don't know it's all down to Sarah.

Kids in the mix makes break ups that much harder. But to be honest, they will probably take this easier than either adult will. So I think from now on, your focus is the relationship between you and your kids going forward, and see the one with your girlfriend, over and done with, just so you can focus on yourself and your healing, and rebuilding, and not kissing her butt, because you think that's the way to get her back.

I agree with Tal,do for yourself and those little girls. Put her on the back burner for now. The start is with the children. Take it from there, and maybe just maybe she will rethink things also.

She is letting me go over every 2-3 days to see them. I was there after my eldest finished school and it was very hard for me to be around Sarah. I feel very lost at the moment but I want to better myself for the girls, Sarah and most off all myself. She does keep saying its just a break that she needs to see me change and to find her feelings.

I can understand her wanting to find herself. She has been involved with you since she was a teen and now she has two kids. She probably has no clue as to who she is. And if you have been a creep, well a person can only take so much.
Unfortunately there are children in the mix. It's good that you two understand the kids need to see you. So you be there for your kids and do not pressure her.
I don't know how things will go with her, she may decide she loves you and wants to be with you or that she wants out, but it is a decision she needs to make without pressure from you.

If you feel you need to change your ways and become more understanding, do it. Do it because it will make you a better person and father. Whether she comes back or not, you will have grown. And that's a plus.

I wish you well.

I treated the girls and Sarah to a Indian last night and after the girls went to bed Sarah and I laid on the sofa and fell asleeep together on the sofa then in the middle of the night moved to her bed.
Nothing happened and I didn't want it to, All I've taken is that this can work. If she didn't want it to work she would have not have let me sleep with her. It was a good nights sleep, I hadn't slept like that in over 2months and its made me late for work.

I've shown her that I can change, it's still going to take a long time but I am showing her. She knows that I will give up my PC and gaming for her and the girls and to better myself as when I look back over the years is done nothing for me in terms of real life achviments and it no longer interests me

I hope for yours and the sake of your family that there will be a positive end to this. I hate to see families fall apart. These young girls need their dad and they need to see how relationship work the right way.
Don't pressure her and don't wait until you think she may come back to change, begin now, rid yourself of those things that were problems.
Keep us posted.

I am ridding those things that were problems. I believe she is very much scared of giving me her heart again only for me to break it again. Well I can understand that and will take my time with her and show her that I can change, have changed to make all our live's better.

You have to realize change is forever. Its an on going job you have to keep working at and be committed to.

May I ask what was so great about gaming that you pushed aside three beautiful human beings that need and wanted your love? Was it worth it? Would you be willing to not have a PC in the house for as long as it takes. With a computer in the house you may be tempted and sucked back in.

Are you married? Well either way she was 16 when she started dating you. She has also mothered two children now. You may one day find that she does want the break to find herself. She was still learning and growing when she met you. She may realize the older "her" isn't in love with you any more and that's the chance you have to take.

Whatever comes of it those kids need to be put first. You don't take a "break" from kids. You stay in contact and be there for them no matter what. There are no excuses. You find and make the time.

I'm ready to give the PC up all together. My gaming took most of my time and I let it. No it was not worth it at all and I deeply regret it. Since moving out on Monday I've not done any gaming what so ever and have been on these boards a lot to learn how to deal with the situation I've only myself to blame for.
I've suggested to her when we had fights before about me getting rid of it to show her but she said she didn't want me to do that as it was a part of me and I was sucked back in to my old ways with it there and I know it was wrong. As I said before she right now does not want to gamble with her heart and I have to prove that I have changed.
I do know change is forever and I never want to go back to that person I was.

It sounds as though you are on the right track and I wish you the very best.
This may take some time though so be prepared but don't give up.
There is a lot at stake but you also have a lot to gain either way.

1-Be a good dad

2-Be a good human being

3- stay positive and lead by example.

It hasn't been that long, and I think it's a wake up call to change your priorities. That doesn't mean begging her back, but coping with your feelings in positive ways, and first and foremost is the kids. No matter what happens never let them suffer for the actions of adults, and don't pester her for personal time, and attention. If you have surely changed she will see it in your actions over time and not just words. You both are really young, and going through personal adjustments, but she needs the time and space from you emotionally to get her head on straight and learn to make adjustments also.

Problems are rarely just one person fault, neither is the solution. You both need the time so don't be down on yourself.

I have no intention's of giving up on my family. It's taken a HUGE kick in the nad's to find this out and be cracked wide open and I truly wish I could tun back time and smack myself about and tell me to wake up. I'm going over tonight to stay on the sofa so maybe she can see a little more how much I'm prepared to work at it. Thanks for all he advice so far and I will keep you updated.

I have read these posts and think the answers given are spot on.
We have been on an emotional rollercoaster for 10 years. Dealing with moving home so many times, family fall outs, new jobs, broken trust, financial troubles whilst being the best most positive mummy to our gorgeous girls has taken it out of me because I feel like I've done it all alone.
You were there behind me all the time but you never caught me when I fell and always kept yourself distant so I couldn't lean on you.
I struggled carrying a massive load of responsibility and when I collapsed under the pressure and asked you to help... You laughed at my tears and then turned your back on me.
How many times did I beg you to look at your life and to try to see it from my point of view? To see what you were missing out on? To help me?
I thought maybe you were putting up an emotional wall to see if I cared enough about you to break it down.. I tried, calmly, reasonably and with utmost respect for your feelings, I tried. I left myself exhausted, frustrated, feeling weak and hopeless. I got nowhere and have been left battered and doubting I have the energy to try anymore.

How you treated me broke my heart and a relationship is like glass, sometimes it's better to leave it broken than to hurt yourself putting it back together again... I had put my heart into 'us' for such a long time and have been let down too many times. I couldn't trust you, depend on you, talk to you, you didn't respect me, support me or appreciate me.

We have two amazing children and I will not let them be hurt by our mess.

Your newfound openness, ability to communicate, interaction with the kids, general helpfulness and promises of a new you are exactly what you need to do for yourself and our children. Look at all the brilliant things about being a parent.. Be positive, look forward and planning for a happy future. Where there is life there is hope.

I can see the positive changes in you. I'm glad to see it. Our girls deserve quality time with their dad and mum deserves a break!
I need to stay strong, focused and positive for myself and our girls. You being around so much looking heartbroken, the tears and telling me your fears about me finding someone else, your want to be with me, your only hope and option in life is to be a family unit is making me feel pressured into 'changing' my feelings. It's draining me. I feel like I have been given the choice of breaking my own heart again or ruining your life? I can't handle being your only hope.

I know I've made it harder by being rational, level-headed and yet still kind and compassionate.. but that's me and you know it. I don't want to fight or part on bad terms even if that would make the transition into a break 'easier', Please try to understand.. I need to be free of my emotional ties to you.. safe from hurt, confusion, anger and resent.

When 'we' fell asleep on the sofa was I not feeling ill? Did I not fall asleep early? I felt stupid.. like I had been made a fool of. I don't have the energy to fight you, to reject your advances, requests for hugs etc.. It makes me angry to see you sulk. You know when I fall asleep I'm not fully aware of what's going on! Please respect my feelings. I keep telling you its making me feel uncomfortable. I do not want to end up in an argument.
I can see you want to work at it now, of course you do, because you can now see how much I tried, how much I gave and how hard I worked for our family. You know you were lucky but you took advantage of me and now you want me back. I won't play games with my self-respect.

I won't make promises I can't keep. I won't give you false hope. All I can say is give me a break, room and time to heal my wounds. See what happens. I have changed and I hope for yours and our children's sake you have changed.. put some space between us and see if we fit back together again.

Are you the lady and mom?

Read what she has said and take it to heart. Give her the space she needs, respect her wishes.
I wish you two the best whatever the outcome is.

Well its been a while now and I thought a little update was in order.

At the beginning of May my brakes on my car broke and Sarah very kindly said I could stay another month to help me as I had to spend money on the car. In that time after reading a lot and thinking I said something which I deeply regret and know I should have listened and taken on board what she said about it only being a break. I told her it was over and that breaks always turn out to be break up's. I tried to make it up to her and say that it's not what I really want but what I was thinking and feeling at the time.

I've moved back to my mum's and have been seeing the girls most day's. Today we took my eldest to new bike and I nearly broke down in Toys R Us, I'm finding it so very very hard to have her next to me but know we are not together any more.

I was going to have dinner there but decided not to as to how I was feeling.
I told her I was going to leave because of how I felt and she said that can't keep happening, I said I know and I'm sorry but I'm finding it really hard. She replied with this is not what she wants and wants us to be happy as a family together. I said that will never be as I'm madly in love with her and am finding very hard. I've been trying my best to hold my feelings in especially in front of the girls.

The days since I've gone and I see her I always kiss her on the cheek and not once had she kissed me back but today she did which made me feel a little better not a lot but a little. I'm not going to take anything from that at all just it made me feel a little better.

Have you two done any family counseling?
It may help.

No she says I have to get counseling on my own first which I'm getting through my work. It's one of the thing's I said to her when it started kicking off, She is seeing someone from relate and they have said the same as here.

I just got to seek help myself and give it time and hopefully her heart will change with the changes I make to myself.

Yes. Do what you need to do for you and your kids. Don't worry abour her at this point

Its just so hard not to worry or think about her, I have my girls and every time I look at them I see her, They talk about when am I coming back and I break down in tears every time. I know my mistakes she knows I know but she doesn't want to gamble with her heart just yet and needs more time.

I understand. You will be OK.
Just keep doing what you need to do for you and the girls. IT will get easier.

Sorry guy, but I deleted your journal for your own privacy, but I can send it to you if you PM me.

An update.

She tells me now after my stupid silly actions and letting my feelings get the better of me, it's over and I need to improve myself. She is very angry right now so was probably saying it to protect herself and get me to sort myself out.

I’ve been speaking to a friend at work who has been through the same as me and has been very supportive over the past couple of days.

I’ve started using my Mum’s cross trainer which is something I’ve never done before and plan to make a lot of improvements to myself. Stopping smoking spending the quality time with my girls as I believe this is a big part to me winning her heart back.

My journal has shown me a lot reading it back to myself and I can see the same mistakes that I grew up with that I did in our relationship.

I came from a mothering environment where no love was shown between my stepfather and mother and when I got with Sarah she carried on the mothering as it was her way of loving me.

She doesn’t blame me for everything that went wrong she says that she should have been more demanding.

I now see this and never want to go back to that way. Her counsellor said that while I may make improvements for the first 2 months I could slip back in to my old ways so it would be another 2months to make sure I don’t slip back then another possible 2months to be extra sure. I hope I’ve not pushed her too far though which I fear she has.

I see a counsellor on Wednesday and will be seeing the girls that evening then having them on Friday. Strawberry picking and a farm, they will love it.

I feel better now still angry with myself but not as much as I have been, I need to stay focused on the goal which is to improve me first and foremost, make my relationship with my girls a lot better then hopefully this will enable me to show and unteach Sarah of all my bad old ways.

You have your priorities fairly straight, hope it works out, whether she comes back or not.

I saw my counsellor yesterday for the first time and in the first session she made me see what my issues were.

Due to the rejection and my childhood with my father telling me at 12/13 that I would always be 2nd best to my step mum and half brother and the abusive stepfather I had gave me a fear of rejection subconsciously that I used computer gaming to escape my unhappiness. I push away the ones that I love for the fear of rejection so I did exactly what I had always feared.

I spoke to Sarah last night and she said she understood and knew about it but there was only 1 person that could sort myself out….. ME.

She still says she loves me like a brother or a sister and does care for me but is enjoying life being single and cannot see what the future holds/

I want it to be the girls and Sarah that see me change, I want Sarah to be the one to see that I've sorted my head out and conqerd my fears to provide the future that both my girls and her deserve. I will accpet if she doesn't want me back I won't try but she hasn't said that, only that she doesn't know what the future brings. I will not stop telling I love her, I will not stop showing I love her. I won't smother her with it and will give her the space that she needs but I need her to know how much I love her and how much I'm willing to try for her.

The guilt is killing me I don’t know what to do.

I was getting better but after yesterday I feel like I’ve gone backwards after hearing that.

Kut…

I read everything from the beginning but since the original post I had the same thought that it's not about you and your healing.

I'm sorry if it sounds harsh, I understand you are miserable right now, everyone ends up here seeking help. But not a lot of people put names in posts. For nothing in the world I would let my ex see the posts I made here, let alone making a post on my thread - unless I seek his pity or try to put pressure on him and I don't think it's the right way to go.

You have to understand that it's about YOU and your daughters. Take in account that you basically grew up together. When most teenager couples fell apart in early twenties, you somehow, stayed. From what I read on Sarah's (I'm assuming it was her) post, she had to carry most of the weight and she tried as much as she could but sometimes it's not enough.

"I want it to be the girls and Sarah that see me change, i want Sarah to be the one to see that i've sorted my head out and conqerd my fears to provide the future that both my girls and her deserve. I will accpet if she doesn't want me back I won't try but she hasn't said that" [... ] "I will not stop telling I love her, I will not stop showing I love her." [... ] "will give her the space that she needs but i need her to know how much i love her."

She is tired, let her heal. I honestly think that telling someone you love them or show your affection is the way to heal or give the other person the space they need, but if you don't think you can handle it and if she is patient enough, I guess it's a way to keep hoping... if it's what you want.

I would suggest you to take care of yourself for yourself, like everyone here would say - and stop trying to make her notice. You were the center of her life for 10 years, I'm sure she does. You just need to be confident.


When I look at my ex-husband, I see the one I fell in love with when I was 18. I see our wedding day, our holidays, I see us studying together, graduating, I see 8 wonderful years of my life. I see arguments too, but it doesn't matter. I know that I can call him in any circumstance, that I will be there for him anytime he needs me. I do love him and have a lot of affection for him, but I am not in love with him. And I think it's what true love is. Even if "the worst" happens, if she ends up telling you she can't see herself getting back with you any time in the future, you are lucky to have this feeling.
And remember, as long as you are working on yourself, you're not going backwards.

Its not about pity or putting pressure on her, it was about showing her I'm seeking the help I need to make myself better and what I'm doing to do so.

She won't give closure on the relationship even though she says it over, to me why wouldn't she put closure on it if its over? This confuses me to no extent what so ever and still makes me believe there is hope for us but only with time and improvements to myself and my relationship with my 2 beautiful girls.

Thank you for your words

Kut...

it was about showing her I'm seeking the help
That should not even be part of the equation, because your trying to influence her thinking, and that comes of as your doing it for your own gain.

She won't give closure on the relationship
You are responsible for your own closure, based on the facts, and not just your need.

this confuses me to no extent what so ever and still makes me believe there is hope for us
When you finally take responsibility, then you will not be confused and beholding to her for what your supposed to do.

Your actions, and your mindset, got you here. And that's what gets you out. Many get stuck in the false hope game, and think showing changes is their solution. Its NOT! Only by making changes, and not caring what others think, will bring you get peace of mind. You are doing this as a strategy to influence her back, when you should be doing it for you, whether she comes back or not. Whether she notices or not. Its far too late to impress her my friend. She no longer cares, and if your making changes hinges on her changing, you will fail miserably.

When you accept your circumstances fully, and stop trying to get back what you lost, then you will have the closure you need to stop being confused, and do what your supposed to.

Why is this about you changing to be a better person and you showing this and that to her and your daughters? What about her needs and desires? She wants space and time. Its clear. Give it to her. Period.

Its wonderful your going to be a better man. Keep working at it with or without her. But you need to keep in mind she also has issues and she is also healing and making her own changes. Give her the time and space she needs for this to happen. You can show her all the positive changes in the world but love and trust are a hard thing to get back when they have been lost. She has a wall up and I feel your trying to climb over it as she is building it higher.

This isn't about only you and that's how I am reading some of these posts. Your both hurting. You were together a long time. Its hard to make the change and look at life alone. Its scary. I am sure she has conflicting feelings and maybe this is why your not seeing closure with her.

Why is this about you changing to be a better person and you showing this and that to her and your daughters? What about her needs and desires? She wants space and time. Its clear. Give it to her. Period.

Its wonderful your going to be a better man. Keep working at it with or without her. But you need to keep in mind she also has issues and she is also healing and making her own changes. Give her the time and space she needs for this to happen. You can show her all the positive changes in the world but love and trust are a hard thing to get back when they have been lost. She has a wall up and I feel your trying to climb over it as she is building it higher.

This isnt about only you and thats how I am reading some of these posts. Your both hurting. You were together a long time. Its hard to make the change and look at life alone. Its scary. I am sure she has conflicting feelings and maybe this is why your not seeing closure with her.

I agree. Great post!
(sorry, have to spread some rep)

Had another session yesterday and do feel a lot better now. I feel more happier with myself. I've now let go as hard as it is to do I'ev done it. I've put closure on one of the main things that made me unhappy which is my father.

I have a much better relationship with my girls mainly my youngest who I didn't have a great relationship with. She clings to me when I go round which makes my heart melt.

I made so many mistakes over the years which came from my childhood and fear of failure like my father before me so I kept my love one's at arms length so I couldn't be hurt and rejected like when I was growing up. I let my fear of rejection control my head over the past couple of months which pushed her away even more. I know I shouldn't have but I had so many feelings flooding in to me I couldn't keep my head straight and acted on these stupid thoughts and feelings. I know I'm not the first and I won't be the last.

I had to thank her for break up as I believe things would have got a lot worse over the years and this is something that needed to be tackled head on. As I said to her if it was just a break I wouldn't have got the help that I needed to sort myself out. I believe I would have taken the break not done anything to help myself and then gone back and fall back in to my old ways which is not going to happen now.

What ever happens in the future be it with her or another person I have her to thank for helping me get the help I needed to make myself happier and a better father. She would have never been able to just tell me it had to be something like this for me to get the help, as she said a MAJOR KICK IN THE BUM is what I needed.

She will always have a place in my heart for what she has given me over the years.

Who knows what the future may bring but I know I will be happier either way

I wish you much happiness.

Had my 3rd session today and the main outcome of it is that I have suffered from depression for many years due to my upbringing.

This has really hit home with me and made me feel real bad over the way I've treated her and the girls over the years.

My counsellor has said I will need to be referred for more sessions to work more on my childhood.

Sarah is a lot calmer with me now, on Wednesday she said that things can't get any worse they can only get better with time and I need to stop beating myself up over what I've done and need to think to the future. That's so hard to do right now I feel like I'm in limbo and the more session's I do and the more I find out about myself the more it upsets me.

And the more you will learn about yourself, and the more you will be taught positive coping skills, and the more you will find ways to overcome those feelings.

And the more you will learn about yourself, and the more you will be taught positive coping skills, and the more you will find ways to overcome those feelings.

Exactly!

I've just had my last free session through my work and I do feel a lot better then I've done over the past weeks. A number of tracks from Enimem's newish album Recovery have been really helping a lot over the past week and every time I get down I put Not afraid on and cheers me up in no time.

Last Friday after finding out I've had depression for a while Sarah that evening sat down with me and told me I need to stop beating myself up over what has happened and need to move forward and that everything has a silver lining and for me it's that I have a better relationship with my girls and I've grown up emotonial over the past weeks and I'm a stronger person now. A work in progress still though.

The next day after dropping the girls off she asked about some stuff I was going to do around the house, I tell her I can come on Sunday and sort it out. She tells me that she does not want to see me everyday and I say that's fair enough and left.

I made plans for the next day, only going down to the casino for a cheap poker tournament. I get a call from her Sunday morning asking if I wanted to go over. I said that she didn't want to see me eveyday and that I've made plans already for that day. She puts the phone down on me and text me "I'm not being nice anymore" I didn't want to fight with her and asked her what I had done wrong for her to say that. I told her I had plans and that it was to go to the casino in which she rapped me over for it. A little while later my eldest calls me and ask if I would like to come for a BBQ, I told I would love to. I went over and everything was OK.

Tuesday we got in to a little heated fight again. She keeps brining up the things I done in the past, So on Friday she is telling me not to beat myself up over what has happened then the very next week she is beating me up over what has happened in the past. I've told her she needs to stop doing that as it's not helping me or her if she is to keep bringing up the past and it will lead to a bigger fallout because of it. Later that day I rang her and said to her we need to stop talking about the past and move on to the now and future for the sake of our girls and what ever happens from there happens.

On Wednesday she tells me her counsellor has told her to stop being nice to me as it's not helping me. At that point I tell her that I'm over her, I love her and want to be with her but I am over her and that what ever happens, happens.

At least you are finally recognizing her passive/aggressive behavior and pushing back on it, but it disturbs me that she stoops to using your kids to manipulate your actions.

This pattern has probably been there a while, and causing you much distress and may be at the heart of your depression. I bet that things go well when she gets what she wants and when she doesn't she goes into aggressive mode and will do anything to accomplish her goals, no matter what the cost to you is.

I think you rightly stood up for yourself, and did your own thing, and pizzed her off in the process. That's a good thing, and I hope it continues, and above all, don't let her use your kids against you any more. That's disgusting, but its obvious you will never work together if you don't stand up for your side since she has what she wants and will fight to keep it that way. She needs control, and for you to feel guilty, and depressed.

Do some positive things about both so you can see what's going on objectively and take the proper actions for yourself and your kids. Sorry to say that this battle has only begun, but through this I think you find yourself, and where you stand, and will no longer be a slave to her ways.

Wish you could continue with your counselling for a bit longer, it really does help to have an unbiased, nuetral sounding board to bounce your feelings off, but coming her to vent, and rant, is a good idea also.

I think you are coming along well. It's too bad she is still in manipulative, childish mode.
Using the kids to control you is just uncool.
You hang in there, stand up for yourself. You are going to be all right.

Well thank you for your comments. I tired to speak to her today but she is still brining up the past and won't let me or her move on. After a little argument I told my oldest that I wouldn't be over today as Mummy and me are fighting and would be best if I see them next week, She was OK with that and I would speak to her at bedtime as well. One of her text she puts Girls are expecting you it will be the last time.

She is accusing me of being volitile which I have been a few weeks ago but have been dealing with my feelings but she cannot resit to bring up the past even after she told me I need to stop beating myself up.

She is very broken right now and that is because of me but I've owned up to my mistakes, am seeking the help that is needed. She says how could I love her and treat her that way, but from what I feel in the past it was because of my childhood and my depression that is the why I was the way I was. I'm a immoral human being, Shi**y dad and disgraceful partner. I agree but I didn't know I had deep down emotional and she didn't know to what extent either. That was said today.

The funny thing is that she had depression when I first met her and if I hadn't she would properly killed herself, she tried to on a number of occasions before I was with her and after I was with her.

Oh and I plan to continue the sessions it just that I have to pay for them now. So I need to work finances out before committing to them.

Even more headscrew for me now, She just sent me a text saying "You surprised me because you said I love you blah blah blah then your over me" at the end of the text she says "There is no hope for us, I didn't know for sure but I know now" I told her right after I'm over her that I still love her and want it to work but I'm moving on with my life.

You have come such a long way and I am so proud of you for that. It didn't seem to take many counseling sessions to help you either. I understand you have to pay for them now but I think you need to keep going. Maybe if you can't afford to go as often speak with your counselor about recording a session. I know it sounds crazy but having that on hand to listen to and remind yourself when you need it might help and in return you can allow more time between sessions which can take less of a hit on your wallet.

I think if I read right she told you her counselor said to no longer be nice to you. That makes no sense at all in my mind. I can't even begin to imagine why a counselor would say that to anyone. Isn't the goal here to understand and be civil to each other. You have children. I suggest she find a new counselor. That's bad advice.

I am reading it as she no longer has control of your emotions and that's making her crazy. You have come to terms and let go now she has no strings to pull. I think your doing the right thing and you will be so much happier looking back knowing you moved on. With any luck you can pull through this without her doing much damage putting the children in the middle.

Well today has really made me go screw her. I got a message can you spare £4 of your drinking money for nappies for my youngest.

I replied What ever I do with my money is nothing to you and if she wants me to do something it has to be without the snide comments. Needless to say from there she is fighting back.

She tells me that Sunday was not for me it was for the girls and that any plans I had she thinks I should drop for my girls.

When my eldest rang I did drop them as she asked me and not her though I feel like she put her up to it.

She is dismissing the issues I have with myself and thinks I did it out of spite.

The past 2 weeks have been a real eye opener and a big thank you too all that have helped me through this hard time but as I have said to her.

There really is no point with her, She can believe what she like because she is not listening to me and I really don't care anymore after the past couple of weeks.

I stick to my Sig

I know I made mistakes and big ones but I'm man enough to own up and sort my issues out. I am happier then I have been for a long time and I know I have a better relationship with my girls.

I'm not going to speak to her anymore NC apart from the girls.

I've got my 30th this week and nothing is going to get me down.

I'm not done with the counselling yet, I've still got work to do with myself but I'm not going to wallow in it anymore, there is no point again I refer you to my sig and I'm always going to be on this site which is a big reminder for me to what I've gone through.

Thank you

Good for you!
Hang in there. We will be here when you need us.

Well that's great. You really do seem so much stronger. The people here who are now your friends are truly amazing. Just remember that. If its in a few hours or a few months we are still here. Stay strong. She really seems like she wants to knock you down. Maybe in fact she is a bit jealous you have moved on and not still at her feet. NC. Stick with it. Good job!

Thankss 88, Homegirl and Tal, You have given me some great advice and has really helped me.

I have really been enjoying life like I've never done before. I still love her and will do for the rest of my life.

Emniem said this in Going through changes from his recovery album released last month.

"I still love your mother, that'll never change,
Think about her every day, we just could never get it together.

Hey, wish there was a better way, for me to say it,
But I swear on everything, I'd do anything for her on anyday."

I'm older and wiser and am able to handle myself better now.

Went out last night, it was student night and was BOGOF on the drinks. Needless to say I got quite drunk and rolled in at 5am. The good thing is I've always been able to control myself while drinking even from when I first started 13/4 odd years ago. My best friend joined me and had a really really good night.

It felt good being able to talk to women without feeling guilt.

I'm not interested in having a relationship or one night stand it was to do with confidence building as I don't have a lot of that and just meeting new people. Damn I feel old when I go out now.

Some young women said I looked about 23/4, a year back I wouldn't have taken anything from it but with my confidence building I've been reading about accepting compliments so I did just that and it did feel good.

Yes 88 I think the same as you as well, I don't think she does like it but after yesterday off her having another pop at me she calmed down and did say sorry for provoking me and that I put up my defenses, I just replied don't provoke me and I won't be defensive. She replied with maybe we both shouldn't rise to each other.

That was the last contact I've had and will be the last as I've said apart from the girls. She wanted to ring me and tell me about the girls reports from school. I told her I will read them when I go round on Wednesday as I didn't want to talk to her on the phone after what had happened earlier.

To those that read my pages you couldn't get any better advice from the 3 I've mentioned and if I can do it anybody can.

Stay happy and positive. You know you have friends here to listen any time. Always look forward and never look back. Looking back could easily bring you down again.

I was brought down today. It's my birthday today and the girls wanted me to go for dinner.

When I got there she said sorry for what had happened over the past couple of weeks and that I shocked her when I said I'm over her.

I explained that I didn't mean I'm over her it was that I'm moving on which is what she wanted and that I will always love her no matter the outcome. She is the mother of my girls I could never hate or want to see anything bad happen to her. To me she is one of the most important people in my life as my girls mother but I know I have my life and have nothing to do with her accept the girls.

I found it very very hard today to be around her but I will stay strong, looking forward to the weekend which is when I celebrate my birthday at a friends (its his on Friday) and will be hitting the town with my sister in the evening.

Thanks for your support and I'm looking to the future in a much more positive light.

Kut...

Well happy birthday. I hope you have a wonderful birthday with your girls.

I had a feeling she was shocked you said you were moving on and over her. I can almost now see her being in that stage where she will want to get you back. Your doing so much better now and seem happy about a new future. Be strong. Learn to deal with her as the "my daughters mother" attitude. Let her be nothing more.

Happy Birthday!
I hope you have a good time with your girls and loads of fun with your friends.

Well when I thought things were getting good it all goes tit's up.

I went to a birthday party on Sat, was mine on the 14th and his on the 16th so it was a let my hair down night after having the girls.

I left my keys with the host and walked home Sunday, I was to pick the car up on Monday but had to wait till they were in to get it. I spoke to Sarah around 2ish and said what was happening. She said my eldest as going around to her friends house for dinner and my youngest was going swimming. I said would it be best and wait till Monday and she agreed. Well today I should have made more of a effort and make a stand and push to come over. She agreed with me that it was best for Wednesday but today I've hurt her and the girls.

I setup a direct debit for the internet to get paid, she needs a mac code and it's something that slipped my mind with all the other stuff that's been going on.

The money wasn't in the bank and it was missed, it got cut of yesterday and I apologized and it was a mistake on my end. Today, I've hurt he, I've screwed her over, why do I want to hurt her all the time.

I brought a TV a few years ago which I'm still paying for so to me its my TV and have told her I want it back but I'm being selfish I'm trying to hurt her through my girls which is not want it is about at all. I consider it to be my TV and something I'm still paying for. Her counsellor says no decent father would be more concered about possesions then his kids feelings. Her parents brought us lot of things over the years to help us none of it was ever asked for but now she wants me to sell the car and pay her back.

She tells me not to go anywhere near the house she don't want me there, my girls feel threaternd by mean don't want to see me. They tell her stuff which she won't repeat. Needless to say after everything that has happened and everything she has said I've told her enough is enough and that I'm not going to see her or the girls again, I can't bear to keep going through this. She says only my attuidude has changed and nothing else but to me she doesn't want to accept it.

She goes on to say, she put everything in to us all that kind of stuff. I just told her she needs to move on as it's not doing either of us any good. Living in the past is making her angry and really getting to me. I told her if the girls want to find me in the future I will tell myside, that yes I made mistakes in the relationship but I sought help before it was too late (her words as well a couple of weeks ago) and that I tried to make things work and didn't want it to end like it has but she has pushed me too far now. I know I pushed her but now she has done it to me.

She says I'm trying to pass the buck by me saying she is pushing me away and telling her to deal with what has happened and to stop living in the past and move on from what has happened, every time I try she is there bringing me back down.

Any advice would be very grateful right now as I'm in a very bad place after today.

I don't remember now, are you two divorced or were you never married?
If you are not divorced now may be a good time to file and seek joint custody with your kids.

I think she is just pissed and trying to control you.
She will come around. Don't let her control what you feel about yourself.

Never married.

That's something I didn't want to have to do. I keep thinking she is pissed and she is just angry but it just keeps brining me down.

I've told her she isn't going to get a rise out of me as I'm not that person anymore but she is really pushing me.

Don't let her get a rise out of you. Your better then that now. Just stay focused on what's most important and that's the girls. Its unfortunate I think she will now use the girls against you and tell them some untruths. But keep your head up the best you can right now and let the storm ride itself out. I agree with Homegirl she seems pi$$ed off and she is lashing out. I am sure she didn't expect you to move on and live life like you have done. She is trying to keep you under her control because she has lost it with you. I am sure she expected the break to go different then it did. Which isn't sitting well with her.

]
Hey all its been a few weeks, some good some bad, Things have calmed down a lot, Me and her are getting along and talking and no more fights.

My Mum has the girls for the next week and she is going to be all alone next week so I asked her if I could pop over one evening and we can watch a movie together. She said we will talk about it early next week but she didn't say no. I also said to her I would need to see my friends more and have a social life with them as I didn't before and she agreed with that.

I asked about how we can move forward and if that she is willing to perhaps given time try again.

She said right away not how things use to be and I stopped her in her tracks and said no way, If she was to say yes we would give it another try I would say I would still stay somewhere else till the time was ready for me to move back. I told her even if it was to take a year to deal with then I'm prepared to deal with that and take each day at a time.

She said that its only been a few weeks since the break really started after all the fighting and I agreed with her but the thing I took from that was her saying break and not break up, perhaps I'm reading too much in to it but she did say break again afterwards.

She said we will talk next week about it.