I am 31 years old going through an advanced garduate degree and I teach of all subjects ethics. I met this guy almost two years ago. The guy is great was upfront with me about having two kids from two different women. Has full custody over his son who is 13 years old ( raised by him and his mother after he went to school to continue his bachelors). The problem is the second one that is from a woman with an 9 th grade education , lives consistently off government assistance and is trying everything to prevent him from getting his Masters( trying to get child support knowing he is hardly making it and trying to get his Masters). I did not have any problem with the kids - I enjoyed playing basketball and swimming with them. Until the baby mam drama from this woman came to the forefront. His daughter is 10 and she does not want to live with him or his mother . Asked on numerous occasions since the child was little and almost every time she has visited with him she says she wants to stay with her mother. The mother has been dating ex- convicts and jail birds. Drinks, smokes and uses marijuana . The child looks awful smells like alkohol and cigarettes. Her clothes are ripped and in awful condition. Her hair looks bad and is never combed or well groomed.
He wanted to get custody but the mother used her fragile health ( supposedly she is epillepic) although she tried to get disability check from the governemnt and they did not give her one because her seizures are not due to disability but due to heavy dribking , smoking and marijuana or whatever she uses.
Well, his mother seems to have more respect for this woman than for me. I was explicitly told that I am all about education and not about family and kids. Since I want to get my degree first than marry and then have kids. His mothe rhad him early also did not finish her education so in a way she understand this woman better than she understands me. He supports his mother and there is nothing I can do about it. Recently, the baby mama filed papers for child support( although they had an agreement that since he is in school and trying to do right and get a job she will not put him on the street until he is in school). He has been paying her child support while he was working - half of his check was going to her. She has never worked except for waitressing for a month here and there. Her own mother put her off from their home because she has allowed an ex- boyfriend( ex - prisoner) wreck her mother car and break their front door.
Well, when she learned we are together she started calling him at random hours and late at night - basically about nothing and trying to claim that the child has a flu etc. The child is perfectly well - she just uses the child as a tool for manipulation. She has done that before. Well, I was fine with it. Then Christmas comes- his mother gets balllistic on him and then on me for living together without being married and blames me for giving a direction in his son`s live and helping him go through a Masters degree and being there for him.Her words:" I donot understand your education". After that episode I had enough with his mother. New Years his son comes to stay for few days with us - I am OK with it. My fiancée is cold and does not kiss me or show affection in front of his son. His daughter calls on skype and her mother is right there on the web cam next to her- I di dnot enjoy that and realized that this is not my idea for a great New Years.
New Year - new luck - the baby mama moved an hour away from us and she has a history of moving close to where he lives. Well, he claims she moved because she has friends close by?? But all of her friends are at her odl place that is more like 2- 3 hours away? I am pissed because he contradicts himslef. Anyway she lives off givernment support and makes her daughter ( as she says) call my fiancée and ask him for money.
Why I am writing this - she filed papers for child support - he hardly has any money to live and pay his school bills. I told him - tell her that if she is jelous that you are trying to make a living for yourself and give good example you will do it despite her jelousy. I asked him to fight for rhis daughter and for custody. The girl needs positive environment and example. The baby mama got angry and would not let him see his daughter on Easter. He got bitter and snapped on me for something that I said that would not have been an issue before. Then I realized that he is still bitter. He said that he was thinkning of showing up on their doorstep with an Easter basket because he wanted to see what was the mother doing with his daughter. Since the mother said they have plans( highly unlikely knowingthe mother). I have seen the mother once or twice and she looks like a crack addict, or a drunk ( at noon she is still sleeping etc). Now he went to see his mother and son. His mother loves his daughter although she has disrepsectful attitude and sometime the grandmother had said that she cannot handle that child - lies, manipulates like her mother.
Amongs all of this I like this man and all of this hurts me. I want to build a family and have kids. I am getting my degree two years from now. I encouraged and supported him throughout times when he had nothing and nobody. It hurts me to be disrespected by his mother and by him on occasions . I donot think that I have to grow balls or become stronger. This is his situation and he needs to clean it up . I really donot know what to do. I come from am great family with a lot of love, support and respect for education and hard work. All of this is new and very confusing to me. Please, help me. I need to know what to do I am heartbroken and I cry almost everyday . His aunts and some of my friends who have seen his daughter have told me that she has evil eyes . I have not shared about all of thisnwith anybody and just keep it in myself. I donot know what to do.
I care deeply about this man but all of this influences my emotions and my work which is very hard and consists of me being concentrated and calm. I just want to make sure that I am doing the right thing by staying with him .
Probably I should mention that before me he was in a 2 year relationship with an older woman around 36 years old and he was 32. She worked in a factory with him and has a young son from some guy that she tried to sue for child support ( the guy had other kids so she did not get anything). Well , when we started our relationship he will say that she had great body etc. I was pissed because I have seen pictures and the woman can not even be compared to me . Well, even his brother says that ( whatever). At some point she sent him a letter and he considered going back to her ( that was hurtful). Provided all I have helped him with . Well this is my story - what do I do. Please, help. I have no kids, this is my first intimate and serious relationship. I waited for a person that I will love and I do love this guy but I donot see a future unless all of this is resolved.

1) No matter what his hopes and dreams are child support is the right of his children, and the mothers responsibility to get.

2) His relationship with his family and his kids is his business.

3) You can't expect his mother to understand you, or like you, as his ex has her GRAND CHILDREN, so she doesn't have to like you, and after only a few years she may just think you're just another girlfriend. The ex will always be family.

4)
You cannot expect to transition smoothly into this guys life, because he comes with baggage he has to unpack, and deal with himself, and he may not do it to your liking, a true conflict to resolve between you.


Well this is my story - what do I do. Please, help. I have no kids, this is my first intimate and serious relationship. I waited for a person that I will love and I do love this guy but I do not see a future unless all of this is resolved.
While your attachment to him is strong, and you resent the other things going on in his life (he would be so perfect, if not for the ex, wouldn't he?), you have to know this situation will not change for years as the ex will be there to be dealt with by him until the kids are grown, and he will still be dad, FOREVER, and be in their lives, for good or bad. Nothing you can do to change that, sorry that's just reality, and it is, what it is.

You may love him an awful lot, but whether he feels the same is up in the air, so you should decide for yourself if this is worth it or not, or is it worth putting in a lot more time, effort, emotion, and drama, on the hope that someday things will be okay. That's your decision to make, if you can see those issue not being resolved soon.

My dear, the last 2 years are but a preview of what to expect for a long time to come, so do you see yourself still here in the next 8-10 years, or not.

Talk to him, and see where he thinks this is going, and see how he feels about his own future, and what he will do about the situation, and decide for yourself, if that's what you want. If not, its time to go, and find your own happiness.

Leaving the first is especially hard, but nothing compared to what you will go through as he deals with his issues, at his own pace, which really is all he can do.

Dear Talaniman,

Thank you , this is very helpful. I have not talked about this situation with anybody. I have talked with my fiancée about it. However he says that I need to be patient and grow balls and become stronger. I think that I will have to let him go. Unfortunately, as his mother said she saw that we would not work because I did not have children. So I guess she want to see him with a woman that already has children or she does not see him with any woman. He says he will not get involved seriously with another woman provided I leave.
I understand your point about child support - he will pay it no matter whether he is on the street and has to quit school and go work to the factory.He has been supportive by buying clothes( the mother does not buy clothes) and gifts etc.
His son is a great kid and very respectful and I have a great relationship with him and he asks about me all the time.
His mother does not see me as family and probably never will- you are right. Unfortunately , she understands how I feel because her husband hid from her children that he had while he was married to her. She never welcomed these kids in her home and she does not have a relationship with her mother in law because of that situation. She knows how I feel.
Well, I have known for a while that I have to move on and find my happiness. It will be hard because we live together but I need to move on and set everybody free. I have a lot of love for this man but I feel it is time for me to go. He wants me to stay but I can not live with the baby mama and his daughter as part of my family. I donot think I can do that. Too much drama for my life . I love him a lot and always will - he is a great guy and will make some woman really lucky but it is definitely not me.
Thank you , for helping me take that very difficult decision in my life. I will sit him down after he comes from his mother`s.

I guess I got upset the minute it sounded like you felt that your friend should not have to pay child support merely because he has made a choice to go to school.

He also made a choice to have a child and that child support is owed, based on state min or his wages.

Definitely, he has to pay and he has been paying when he had a steady job - hald of his paycheck was going there. His son was deprived but he had to pay the other baby mama. He has full custody of his son. He will probably had to quit school but he will do right by her. He has been very supportive and has been back and forth with this woman few times after his daughter was born. Slept with her etc. So I guess he can go back and build a family. I myself donot see being part of this mess and will definitely distancing immediately.
He is not a deadbeat and has been very responsible. He has always bought clothes , gifts etc. I just hope that he will be respected one day by his daughter. Well, thank you for your great advice and help. It helped me take the right decision.Never get involved with a man that has baby mama:)

Dear Fr- Chuck,

He was not my friend but my fiancée. Oh , ex - finacee. I donot want to have anything to do with crazy baby mamas anymore espcially addicts and psychos. But anyway, he has always paid her more than she needed. They agreed he will support with anything he can while in school and when he gets a full time job he will pay her what he needs to pay. It was never a question of him not paying. I have seen the checks he has paid since the birth of the child - he has paid child support religiously , taken the kid out and about and always followed his custody vistations etc. He told her that now that he is in school he might not see his daughter that often but he has made the effort to be with her and enjoy his time with her. On all occasions I have stayed away. I was there on Christmas but since then I have not been spending time with them. I want to avoid the baby mama drama that comes after his visit. Since everything gets reported , the colour of my eyes, how I was dressed etc. So I stayed away. Long story short - he is a good father, I hope he finds a good woman that will stand by him depsite all that mess. He might go back to the baby mama or some other woman or an ex that has kids. These are his problems. All I know is I am out of this relationship and have written a good bye letter. Never again - a man with a crazy baby mama . Most of these women are simply leaches and addicts that use the poor kids as pawns. I cannot deal with that drama. He has to deal with that till the rest of his life not me. I hope he finds peace. Thank you for your comments and suggestions. Poor kids - they have to deal with unfit mothers and addicts.

So he is your fiancée and you are ending it with a good bye letter? Don't you think it is fair if you have love for this man to do it face to face? That way the both of you have closure on this.

So he is your fiancee and you are ending it with a good bye letter? Don't you think it is fair if you have love for this man to do it face to face? That way the both of you have closure on this.

I have to respectfully disagree - letter is as good as anything else, considering all this unneeded drama he pulled OP into. And there is no "fairness" in relationships either. It was not "fair" for him to get engaged and to involve OP when his life is such a mess, and not "fair" to be cold toward her either.

Mfiodorova, I commend for you strength to break it off. You did the best thing for you.

I agree with all the reasons you have decided to leave the relationship. He comes as an extended family deal, and that is a tremendous adjustment to make. I know that I would do as you are doing now.

Sometimes love is just not enough.

Thank you , everybody. I am no longer wearing the ring. He read the good bye letter and still does not want to let me go. He got the child suport papers back and they say that he has to pay the minimum amount since his income is unsufficient(he hardly survives). In the meantime the baby mama told his mother that she also wants to be happy. I doubt his 100 usd a month will make her happy . During the summer he will not earn anything so she will not be getting anything. The irony of it is that if she came to him and asked for a specific things like - clothes, books etc he would have bought these to the daughter. He has always bought clothes, books , bicycle etc you name it .However , the issues here seem to be jelousy and the baby mama controlling nature. His mother and aunts doubt that these money will be spent on the child since the mother : smokes, drinks and uses pot and prescription pills. In the meantime his daughter has a personal cell phone and has not called him or bothered to show him some respect. He has taken her every second weekend , when he can or every two weekends and spend time with her and his son together. As I said I have been with them only 2 times and since then I distanced myself and never spend time because I respected the wishes of the baby mama. He cares, goes with his kids for ice cream , tries to play outdoor games and instill values and desire to do better in school. I no longer want to be with him and I have communicated that to him clearly. We are keeping a good friendship and he is trying to be romantic and rekindle what we had before. Something has died in me. This drama influences my performance in my studies , my teaching and work in general. I want my ahppy, beautiful positive me back. Unfortunately, this will only happen if we are apart.
Thank you , everybody for confirming my decision. You are right sometimes love is not enough:).
We have talked after he read the letter and he wants a second chance. My heart no longer feels the same way. I have to think about myself.

I agree with your decision 100%.

That you already feel you have lost youself as you said, in all that is going on, is really telling in my opinion.

You've been with him long enough to evaluate what the future would bring for you, and that is not a pretty picture from the way you have described all the people involved.

I just want to tell you that it's okay to decide for yourself, how you want to live your life. While you may think you're being selfish, you really aren't. He too, needs to find a partner that is willing to accept all the baggage and live a life with all the problems that are sure to occur, particularly with the extended family. I know I couldn't do it.

He is a package deal after all.

Stay strong; you will soon discover yourself again, and live a much happier life.

Good luck with everything, it seems like you have a good head on your shoulders, and you will get past this. Always remember to take care of your needs first, before others. This does not make you selfish, this makes you healthy.

I want to thank everybody who supported my decision. It was not an easy one and the transition is difficult. However, with each day I realize that this is the better decision for ME. He prefers to keep the status quo and thinks that once is is 40 something and his kids are 18 or over and he is established and has a job he will find somebody that he will be happy with. I wish him good luck. I know that these problems grow bigger as the kids grow bigger and that they never fade away so I hope he will find a good woman that will suport him in his own pursuit of a better life. I just cannot live with the status quo and want changes that I donot see him doing. I tried my best to disregard all of this but this is too much as I already said. I want to come first and I demand my needs to be met. I donot see that happening so I will continue this painful transition period.
Thank you , for your support.

I think you have made a good decision for yourself, and wish you the best. Well done in seeking YOUR OWN HAPPINESS!

My biggest issue was that he did not see a problem in the whoel situation. He used to say this is your problem you cannot accept my kids , they are not going anywhere etc. That was very very hurtful .Plus his mother will gear him up and fuel all of this talk to where I will end up crying and helpless. I did not appreaciate that. I am not some ghetto woman - I come from a good respectful family and all of this just did not seem right. My intuition was telling me that this is wrong. I intuitevely knew that. The woman that gave birth to his daughter - she is portrayed by his mother as a saint on earth although she is a trailer trash smokes, drinks, dates drug dealers and jail bird etc.
He is fine with the status quo and does not see a problem and this is where I realized that this man will never change. Even at 40 he will never understand the needs that a woman has . So I had to move on.

Thank you all for your support

That's the ticket. There is no need to justify yourself to any one as this is your happiness we are talking about. It wasn't working for you so, you have done right by removing yourself from the situation.

They are stuck with each other, you are not.

Never again - a man with a crazy baby mama . Most of these women are simply leaches and addicts that use the poor kids as pawns. I cannot deal with that drama. He has to deal with that till the rest of his life not me. I hope he finds peace. Thank you for your comments and suggestions. Poor kids - they have to deal with unfit mothers and addicts.

I think you are absolutely doing the right thing to break off.

But your destain for "baby mamas" is painful to read. Do you just hate women? These mothers could be any woman, including you. I'm assuming you took precautions not to get pregnant by this guy (for which I salute you!), but suppose in a weak moment you let him get you pregnant, but ended up apart--as ALL of his other relationships.

There you'd be with a baby/toddler/10 year old. If you had no education, it would be hard to support the toddler on your own. There is no way a minimum wage job can support two people, one of whom is in day care. The toddler is ENTITLED to child support from the baby dada just as much as the toddler is entitled to care and support from the mother. You make it sound like the times when he did pay child support makes him some kind of prince. He BETTER pay child support!

Try to be more sympathetic to "these women," whom your ex chose to have kids with.

Poor kids, is right. They have to deal with a baby dada who says, "I want a more comfortable life, so I'm going to stop paying child support and stop seeing my daughter so I can take classes and be a big shot. Instead of investing in my daughter's life, I'm going to invest in me. If the child's mother can't support herself and my daughter so I can go to school and has to scramble to change her living situation, that's her problem."

What a disgusting man. Why you ever considered marrying him, I have no idea.

I will completeley disagree with you asking. I myself come from humble and modest background and worked my way up to where I am right now. I know many single women who work hard and support their children.
I have disadain for lazy , irresponsible women who live off welfare their whole life and do not take any steps to get their GED or degree so that they can set a good example for their children. I do not have respect for women of that sort and kind.
I do understand the structural and social impediments that these women face. I am smart enough not to get pregnant out of wedlock because my goal in life is not to trap a man and collect a check . Yes, poor children they have eto deal with that.
As to the guy he is doing right by setting the right example for his daughter. He has raised his son by himself and he understand what does it mean to make sacrifices in life. As to the daughter - he was with the baby mama for 2-3 months and she got pregnant intentionally from him. She already knew that he has a son and provides well for his son.He was depressed at that time and communicated he does not want child from her. She decided to have the child depsite that. He took his responsibilities under the law and provided with all he can.
I can see that you are bitter for some reason . I hope that you understand that nobody can do to you what you have done to yourself. It is nobody`s fault but yours and you are the only one that can do better and change her life.
I myself do not want to associate myself with bitter, baby mamas who donot respect themselves or their children , smoke drink and associate themselves with drug dealers. This is a great example for their daighters - milk the daddy for money , smoke, drink and date jail bird - what a great life.
I am sorry but I have no respect for these type of women. I have a sinle mother in my family - SHE NEVER ASKED FOR A PENNY FROM THE FATHER. She was not married to him , he did not want to have anything to do with the child she made the choice to have ethe child and she raised the child.
YES THIS WOMAN MADE THE CHOICE TO HAVE THAT BABY. He was never married to her , never wanted to marry her , and communicated to her that he does not want a child from her. Her choice was to have the baby. He took his responsibility and provided child support, gifts, clothes , weekends and vacations etc. I donot think that he is a deadbeat because he is setting a good exaple for his daughter - on the contrary I think he is showing her what she can be one day if she decides to struggle and work hard every day. His bonus just went to his daughter - all of his hard work went there. He did not get a penny. While, the baby mama sits on her all day and drinks, smokes pot and thinks how to manipulate somebody for more money or how to get more welfare. So , please beb careful before you make any judgements or assumptions. There are different baby mamas - but this kind I have no respect for them.
P.S. I think that there ar emany way sin which in our day and age a woman can avoid becoming a baby mama :) if she wants to

I would DUMP HIM chalk it up to experience and if he living with you/off you tell him to go home to his MAMA. You deserve better for yourself and you will be surprised how relieving it is to be rid of the whole mess. YES IVE BEEN THERE and its so WONDERFUL not to be there anymore. Finish YOUR education and meet a man that has NO kids and start a WONDERFUL life with HIM! YOU Don't DESERVE THE DRAMA!