Help me crack this egg! Lol

As you all know, I have a problem child. My blue APBT.

Well, the saga continues...

I don't want to say she is a stupid dog, because she isn't. She is very smart and has learned everything that I have taught her and for the most, has retained it. I haven't done any formal training with her, but I did teach her the necessities of my house hold which is "sit", "down", "wait", and "come". And she does pretty good at that.

However...

She is a total knothead. She does not understand correction of any sort. And I have tried it all! I tried +R, corrective punshiment.. I have been nice to her, I have been mean to her.. I have been kind of real mean to her.. and she doesn't get it. She continues on like nothing has ever happened. I don't know how to get through to this dog.

Story...

A couple weeks ago, right before my trip to Las Vegas... My two bullie girls were in the crate groweling at each other. I chased my white one out, but the blue remained. She looked scared, and was hugging the back wall. I knew she was going to buck. My mom tells me all the time what she does right before the dog starts to snap at my mom.. So I ran and got my broom (sorry, not getting bit) and tried to coax her out. I used the soft end of the broom and put it in front of her to try and back her out from the crate. She bit the broom, she growel, snapped, jumped around and hugged closer to the wall. I finally took the blanket out of the crate.. she finally backed up and raced over to the wall where the door is to go into my room. She still had a look of panick and was still fearing snapping at the broom. So I took the soft end of the broom, and pinned her to the ground. She finally gave. She took a deep breath, I released her and went about my business. A couple minutes passed, I called her over to me, she peed submissively. She did again the morning after that tussle. That is the only time I got through to her.

I honestly... Don't know what to do. She is out of control. She catapults herself against the house/door when she wants in. She crawls up the side of the house with her muddy feet. The other day, she followed my dad out the door and was circleing the truck like she was going to go somewhere. When we take the dogs out for their run, they are all in the back of the truck (covered). She is bouncing off the ceiling and is squeaking and barking. She will crawl up on the sides of the covered bed and smash her face into the glass. Its strange and completely unnecessary.

The other day, I put everyone away because I was leaving. She was screaming in her crate in protest. So I put her outside. She continued to protest. I went back outside and scolded her and held her mouth shut and said "no bark". The min. I closed the door, she was protesting again.

She's real good and displaying human emotion. When you scold her, she looks guilty, sorry, and the look of "I'll never do it again, I promise". But its never (human emotion again) sincere. I know dogs don't understand those types of emotions and they are based off what response from the human is, didn't know how else to explain it.

But any time I correct her.. Its like I'm not even there. I could tie her to a brick wall and nothing would be different.

She also acts like a moron in public. Almost to the point where is embarrassing and I look like one of those out of control dog owners that can't control the dog. Which doesn't make sense to me either. Because its only for dogs. She loses focus, I can't even get her to do any of the watch mes, sit... "look a squeaky toy".. nothing. There is no response from her when she is intuned to other dogs. So, I took her to the dog park thinking is a socializing issue... She was perfect at the dog park. Very polite.. Not invasive. Really had no interest in the other dogs. I just don't get it at all.

I'm debating on getting a remote trainer. I know some of you may not agree with this, but I don't know what else to do. But I'm thinking that maybe if there is no human connection to the corrections that she needs, then maybe I can get through to her. Maybe she will get the connection that the house will bite back when she catapults against the door.

I am looking for a dog trainer.. No one around here I think would be able to work with her at the level that she needs. There is a good training group about an hr and half from me.. which I really don't want to do that.. But I guess if I have no choice... I have to go.

Am I doing something wrong? Am I doing anything right? I'm seriously at a loss! Any input.. suggestions... anything.. PLEASE!

Help? :(

Hi Lucky, sorry in a huge rush today will take a look this afternoon and try to help out :)

From a quick glance though it sounds like my Cyrus... he does not respond to praise or correction.

I found that food was his weakness, but every dog is different.
I don't have a problem with electronic collars when really needed and I'm sure you would know how to use one properly... but I will have a proper read later and get back to you ;)

Hey Lucky,

APBT frequently get a bad rap. I think that they're some of the most intelligent dogs you meet. Years of breeding and culling and breeding to obtain the toughest most aggressive fighters certainly has made the breed tough as nails.

They tell us that dogs are pack animals and will defer to the pack member who is the stubbornest. So far, she has got you beat.

What type of collar do you use? From what you've described about her ability to ignore pain and discipline, I'd suggest a prong collar. Electronic collars can be very effective but an electric shock, last resort.

Prong collars do not cause pain, but they encourage the dog to decide to follow your lead. Muzzle her if she becomes bitey. Muzzles may freak a dog out at first, but it serves to calm them after a bit so that they listen to you. Then work with her, never letting her get away with a half-way job.

One of my dogs whines, cries, throws herself against the sides of her crate. The whining etc. has pretty much stopped. First I yelled at her... No, didn't work. Then I let her out since she seemed to be suffering so much... No, really dumb on my part. Used a squirt bottle, well that didn't work at all. Then I put her in with her prong collar on and a long leash going through the crate door. She ate the first two leashes... Now all she gets is metal links.

Every time she acted up, I gave a sharp tug on the leash and said stop. I had to be more persistent than she was. Now I just look at her if she's starting to go in circles. She lies down. That took a lot of time but it was worth it. Never leave a dog unattended with a collar and leash on like that though.

Ok, now that I have read it all I am very concerned about her biting the broom in the crate and losing control.

Has she ever done something like that before, or has she done it since?

As I said before the remote trainer is definitely an option, if she is out of control throwing herself at walls, won't listen when you go out then it could be a good way of getting her attention.

I can't give any advice on using them as I never have had to before, but I do know that you start on the lowest possible shock and gradually increase it until she actually feels it and gets the idea.
You may also have to be prepared to shave a patch on her neck to get maximum contact from the metal.

I'm going to try the check cord with the prong collar and see if that works... I still might have to get a remote trainer for outside.

This dog is really making me work!

It's good practice for you Lucky!
Once you get this one trained any other dogs will be a piece of cake :D

Lol I know, right?

Hi Lucky. :)

Your post had me a bit concerned, for you, not for the dog. So far you've managed to avoid a bite, but it sounds to me like it's not far from happening, you've just been lucky (ha, ha) so far.

It sounds to me like something is scaring her, but I have no idea what it is. What is her history? When did you get her? At what age? How old is she now? If you've already answered these questions, sorry, my short term memory retention is crap. ;)

I would have a few recommendations, but they're mainly based on Cesar Millan. Let me know and I'll post a few links and tips. Worth a try, right?

Ive had her since August. She's approximately a year (give or take). She's a very young dog that is wanting to connect but doesn't know how and won't allow herself to be shown.

I'd be interested in the Ceaser Milan way. I'm going to try the check cord connected to a pinch collar, but I'd like more than one way to approach this!

She's being good today! Must be my Easter gift from her! :)

OK, so I know you may not agree with this method, but it looks like you have tried all others.

Have you thought about (yes you guessed it) Protocols for relaxation and Deference. I know it seems like I suggest that for everything, but it is such a tried and true method, and I have seen some of the naughtiest dogs succeed with this method. Don't for get I have to staffies that are extremely pig headed. Especially Max.

I have had some experience with a severely aggressive mastiff mix, the protocols, even thought they did not fix my problem, helped immensely.

That's the "watch me" command, right?

I make her wait for her dinner. She does really good. She will sit and wait for as long as I want to.. and I don't even have to keep a close eye on her. She's pretty responsive but a bull head!

She's not afraid to make eye contact either. She likes to stare. I don't think there is anything behind it because I can always win the staring contests within seconds...

It's not really the watch me command. If I post the link do you PROMISE to read the whole thing? It's written really well. Keep an open mind, it's about the dogs mind frame, not about doing tricks. It's repetitive and boring as oh Hell, but I swear by it! :)

Sure I'll read it! :) Thanks!

Douglas Island Veterinary Service - Training (http://home.gci.net/~divs/behavior/bemod_relax.html)

Tocol for deference: basic program

If that link doesn't have the actual protocols let me know, I will scan and copy them for you, or find the link I use.

Ok I hope you can read this, I wasn't sure how to send this in a PM, but I figured someone else may want to see what I was talking about anyway.

This is the phase one set of excersises. As you can see the sheet of paper has seen better days lol, I actually lost this one in the back seat of my car. The check marks are Lady's actual preformance on her first go at it.

What does "C/T" mean? Click & Treat?

You got it! Just disregard that. They work the same with all pos reinforcement. In fact during these protocols we didn't even use the clicker, we didn't even treat or reward at all. But those protcols are also apart of the manners class we took. Every 5 min or so we would break and I would let her walk around, I would give her a piece of kibbel etc...

Ok, cool. Thanks!

Maybe you could look into a reputable breeder in your area, they may have a tip or two, or an APBT group around.

-Good luck! And please try not to get bitten!

I wish pitties had rep. breeders!

Not too many people breed them for families.. :(

Ya that is definitely unfortuante. Most of the breeders are not very reputable at all are they? My two are rescues, and believe me with the rep that pitties have, you aren't going to find many local clubs or groups either.

Tell me about it!

I got my white one from a box some guy was selling. And believe me, she is PURE pit! My mom and I call her "fire and brimstone". I love her though!

Although, a couple of American Bully breeders around here are trying to do something good for the breed (mostly for AB). Its called the Bully Bash. It's a dog show. Its kind of fun, and so far, no fights have happened! Lol If they do one this year, it will be their 3rd.

That's about it though for groups who support the bully breeds. And like I said, its mostly for the American Bullies.

Hmm, maybe another online forum specifically for pitbulls? (like this one... The Bully Pitbull Forum - Who's Online (http://www.thepitbullforum.com/online.php)) maybe someone else there has/had this problem
When I was 5 my dads friend had a pittbull, we used to ride her around the yard, drag her around, we even made her go through the sprinkler.. she put up with way too much from us! I wish everyone who thinks badly about them met her.

Ive been to that forum! Didn't really get any results. I think this pup is just complicated!

That's the thing with these guys.. They've been bred for centuries to be good with people. The stories of a person being attacked by a pit bull is so tainted with! Those dogs are out of their minds for one... who knows what that person did to them for second.. and Third, most of the attacks are by Pit bull mixes, which are very unpredictable.

Sorry I couldn't be of any more help :( but you should post a picture :)

Ok.. how do you add Pictures. I just tired to and I got boxes with a red X in them :(

Go advanced, click on the paperclip, click upload photos, upload the one you want, and then go back to the paper clip and attach it.

Can you see them? The white one is Miley.. The Blue is Talia

They are freaking gorgeous! I has a huge geart for the bully's, and those babies are beautiful!

There adorable! I want them :)