Okay, who knows what?

An Indianapolis doctor's letter to Sen. Bayh about the Bill (Note: Dr. Stephen E. Frazer, MD practices as an anesthesiologist in Indianapolis, IN)

Here is a letter I sent to Senator Bayh.. Feel free to copy it and send it around to all other representatives. -- Stephen Fraser

Senator Bayh,

As a practicing physician I have major concerns with the health care bill before Congress. I actually have read the bill and am shocked by the brazenness of the government's proposed involvement in the patient-physician relationship. The very idea that the government will dictate and ration patient care is dangerous and certainly not helpful in designing a health care system that works for all. Every physician I work with agrees that we need to fix our health care system, but the proposed bills currently making their way through congress will be a disaster if passed.

I ask you respectfully and as a patriotic American to look at the following troubling lines that I have read in the bill. You cannot possibly believe that these proposals are in the best interests of the country and our fellow citizens.



Page 22 of the HC Bill: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all employers that self-insure!

Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill: THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.

Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!

Page 42 of HC Bill: The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC benefits for you. You have no choice!

Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL non-US citizens, illegal or otherwise.

Page 58 HC Bill: Govt will have real-time access to individuals' finances & a 'National ID Health card' will be issued! (Papers please!)

Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to your bank accounts for elective funds transfer. (Time for more cash and carry)

Page 65 Sec 164: Is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in unions & community organizations: (ACORN).

Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the 'Exchange.'

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans -- The Govt will ration your health care!

Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill: Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. (Translation: illegal aliens.)

Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups (i.e. ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans. (AARP members - your health care WILL be rationed!)

Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill: Medicaid eligible individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. (No choice.)

Page 12 4 lines 24-25 HC: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt monopoly.

Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill: Doctors/ American Medical Association - The Govt will tell YOU what salary you can make.

Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto-enroll employees into public option plan. (NO choice!)

Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part-time employees ANDtheir families. (Employees shouldn't get excited about this as employers will be forced to reduce its work force, benefits, and wages/salaries to cover such a huge expense.)

Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not provide public option will pay 8% tax on all payroll! (See the last comment in parenthesis.)

Page 150 Lines 9-13: A business with payroll between $251K & $401K who doesn't provide public option will pay 2-6% tax on all payroll.

Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.

Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay.) (Like always)

Page 195 HC Bill: Officers & employees of the GOVT HC Admin.. will have access to ALL Americans' finances and personal records. (I guess so they can 'deduct' their fees)

Page 203 Line 14-15 HC: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." (Yes, it really says that!) ( a 'fee' instead)

Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill: Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors. (Low-income and the poor are affected.)

Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill: Doctors: It doesn't matter what specialty you have trained yourself in -- you will all be paid the same! (Just TRY to tell me that's not Socialism!)

Page 253 Line 10-18: The Govt sets the value of a doctor's time, profession, judgment, etc. (Literally-- the value of humans.)

Page 265 Sec 1131: The Govt mandates and controls productivity for "private" HC industries.

Page 268 Sec 1141: The federal Govt regulates the rental and purchase of power driven wheelchairs.

Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever the Govt deems preventable (i.e... re-admissions).

Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors: If you treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission -- the Govt will penalize you.

Page 317 L 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. (The Govt tells doctors what and how much they can own!)

Page 317-318 lines 21-25, 1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion. (The Govt is mandating that hospitals cannot expand.)

Page 321 2-13: Hospitals have the opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input is required. (Can you say ACORN?)

Page 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339: The Govt mandates establishment of=2 outcome-based measures. (HC the way they want -- rationing.)

Page 341 Lines 3-9: The Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. (Forcing people into the Govt plan)

Page 354 Sec 1177: The Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of 'special needs people!' Unbelievable!

Page 379 Sec 1191: The Govt creates more bureaucracy via a "Tele-Health Advisory Committee." (Can you say HC by phone?)

Page 425 Lines 4-12: The Govt mandates "Advance-Care Planning Consult." (Think senior citizens end-of-life patients.)

Page 425 Lines 17-19: The Govt will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. (And it's mandatory!)

Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: The Govt provides an "approved" list of end-of-life resources; guiding you in death. (Also called 'assisted suicide.')(Sounds like Soylent Green to me.)

Page 427 Lines 15-24: The Govt mandates a program for orders on "end-of-life." (The Govt has a say in how your life ends!)

Page 429 Lines 1-9: An "advanced-care planning consultant" will be used frequently as a patient's health deteriorates.

Page 429 Lines 10-12: An "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end-of-life plans.. (AN ORDER TO DIE FROM THE GOVERNMENT?! )

Page 429 Lines 13-25: The GOVT will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order.. (I wouldn't want to stand before God after getting paid for THAT job!)

Page 430 Lines 11-15: The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end-of-life! (Again -- no choice!)

Page 469: Community-Based Home Medical Services = Non-Profit Organizations. (Hello? ACORN Medical Services here!? )

Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover marriage and family therapy. (Which means Govt will insert itself into your marriage even.)

Page 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, and rationing those services.


Senator, I guarantee that I personally will do everything possible to inform patients and my fellow physicians about the dangers of the proposed bills you and your colleagues are debating.

Furthermore, if you vote for a bill that enforces socialized medicine on the country and destroys the doctor-patient relationship, I will do everything in my power to make sure you lose your job in the next election.

Respectfully,

Stephen E. Fraser,

Yay, more of Gal's far-right emails that are full of crap!

Hey Gal, how about you post the text that each item references?

I'm used to it. My insurance company does all that now.

I'm used to it. My insurance company does all that now.
Instant Rimshot (http://instantrimshot.com/)

:)

I would say that at best this is a dated correspondance from November of last year. Without rearguing all the points ;this House version of the bill is not what is under consideration today.
The fate of the Senate bill ;passed Christmas ,and whatever add-on's that the House can tuck into the reconcilliation bill is what is being considered this week. Nowhere do I hear that there is any chance for the House monstrosity becoming law;although it is an unknown how much of it will be squirelled into the final product.

Everything now is about process... arm twisting ,back door pork ladelling ,and unconstitutional parliamentary stunts.

Last whip count I heard still says that Pelosi does not have the votes . But ;if the 'Slaughter Option' is attempted then the House will attempt to pass the bill without actually voting on it. Hugo Chavez would be proud.

I'm still waiting for Gal to post the relevant text to accompany his points.

Galveston - If this were true and the portions highlighted in this letter means just one thing to me... that the government is going to decide literally who lives and who doesn't and they want to do it NOW. Restricting special needs people is just another euphamism for DENY them any care or treatment. Well, that certainly will eliminate a lot of people when they do that. And then the cancer folks will be denied treatment as well. There goes more of the population. Then give free mental health care to families? That means more than likely mandated birth control. The only thing I figure the big push for the health care crap is that this is a great way to get rid of more people "legally" in this country.

Read recently online where the City of Detroit is seriously considering bulldozing a lot of the empty homes! Apparently they are starting the agenda of clearing man's presence off the face of America and making it grassland and forests where once big cities were.

NK the text is readilly available ,and as I said pretty irrelevant since it is no longer the bill in consideration.

Anyway ;for your perusal
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text

NK the text is readilly available ,and as I said pretty irrelevent since it is no longer the bill in consideration.

anyway ;for your perusal
Text of H.R.3200 as Reported in House: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - U.S. Congress - OpenCongress (http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text)Funny how Gal never thought to do that. He simply copy/pasted without doing any fact checking whatsoever - spreading the FUD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt) blindly.

Funny how Gal never thought to do that. He simply copy/pasted without doing any fact checking whatsoever - spreading the FUD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt) blindly.

I assume you HAVE read that bill and can show what is wrong there?

As Tom said, any or all of those provisions could be put into the final bill, since what they intend to vote on now is a "shell". I assume that means that it is like a box that can be filled with whatever.

Their goals have NOT changed. If they wanted these provisions last Nov, you can rest assured that they still want them now.

By the way, you have a pretty good record of criticizing without substantiation don't you?

So now, Obama is using mob tactics to whip the Dems into line.

By the way, you have a pretty good record of criticizing without substantiation don't you?
Actually that is exactly what you just did here. You can't see that?

Actually that is exactly what you just did here. You can't see that?

So, pot, are you calling the kettle black?

I suspect that the adage, misery loves company, explains why you are in favor of Obama care.

So, pot, are you calling the kettle black?

I suspect that the old adage, misery loves company, explains why you are in favor of Obama care.
That makes no sense whatsoever.

According to the Heritage Foundation, if the House passes the Senate version of Obama care, it will add 700 Billion dollars to the national deficit in just the next 10 years.

Why anyone would support this monstrosity is beyond me.

Think about what Pelosi said about having to pass this so we can find out what is in it.

And they call Palin stupid!!

According to the Heritage Foundation,!
Ah yes, the conservative think tank.
Hey you had no problems spend that money in a shorter period for wars - you'd rather wars than health??

According to the Heritage Foundation, if the House passes the Senate version of Obama care, it will add 700 Billion dollars to the national deficit in just the next 10 years.Hello gal:

Funny! The CBO (non partisan congressional budget office) says the bill will REDUCE the deficit by $180 billion in the next 10 years, and over a TRILLION in the following 10 years.

Let me see. Should I believe a right wing organization who ISN'T in favor of the bill, or should I believe the non partisan bureaucrats who scored the bill?

YOU believe who you want to, and I'll believe who I want to.

excon

PS> By the way, the first Bush tax cut ADDED over a TRILLION $$$'s to the deficit. How come you weren't a deficit hawk then?? The NEXT Bush tax cut added MORE to the deficit, I didn't hear a peep from you. Medicare Part D, that Bush passed, added even MORE to the deficit. You?? Nothing!! His wars added even more, but you were ready to invade.

So, NOW you're a deficit hawk?? I understand - really, I do.

Heritage Foundation has a good track record for analysis of trends.

How good is the record for ANY bureaucratic agency?

Name ONE thing that the government runs well.

Congressman Paul Ryan has done a decent job reviewing the CBOs estimates and has asked them to clarify a number of inconsistencies in the figures .

I also find it suspicious that on Wednesday the CBO gave a preview of it's findings to the Democrat majority and Pelosi sent them back to change their figures before yesterday's release. Even yesterdays release is unofficial which Ryan calls a breach of confidentiality rules .

“The Congressional Budget Office has confirmed that there is currently no official cost estimate. Yet House Democrats are touting to the press – and spinning for partisan gain – numbers that have not been released and are impossible to confirm," he said in a statement. "This is the latest outrageous exploitation by the Majority – in this case abusing the confidentiality of the [CBO] – to pass their massive health care overhaul at any cost."

Rep. Ryan angry that Dems 'abused confidentiality' of CBO - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/87601-rep-ryan-there-is-no-official-cbo-score-of-health-bill-yet)

Seems the CBO is not as non-partisan and some would like to believe.

The Washington Compost gives them a pass about intent ;but says their estimates are not the 'holy grail' they are made out to be .
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/18/AR2010031805445.html?hpid=topnews

Congressman Paul Ryan has done a decent job reviewing the CBOs estimates and has asked them to clarify a number of inconsistencies in the figures
How good is the record for ANY bureaucratic agency? Name ONE thing that the government runs well.Hello again, tom and gal:

At this point in time, after your side has continuously misrepresented the nature of the bill, I'm not going to believe ANYTHING your side says. Don't be offended, though. Certainly, you don't believe ANYTHING my side says, and I'm not offended.

Nonetheless, EVEN IF the figures ARE wrong, and it COSTS us money, count me in as one who is fine with my taxes paying for the LIFE giving care of my fellow Americans. I'm not for killing 'em, like you are.

Gal, you're on SS, aren't you? Do you get your check on time?

excon

At this point in time, after your side has continuously misrepresented the nature of the bill, I'm not gonna believe ANYTHING your side says. Don't be offended, though. Certainly, you don't believe ANYTHING my side says, and I'm not offended.

I've quoted several things today that your side has said, and I believe them. That's what bothers me.

Hello again, tom and gal:

At this point in time, after your side has continuously misrepresented the nature of the bill, I'm not gonna believe ANYTHING your side says. Don't be offended, though. Certainly, you don't believe ANYTHING my side says, and I'm not offended.

Nonetheless, EVEN IF the figures ARE wrong, and it COSTS us money, count me in as one who is fine with my taxes paying for the LIFE giving care of my fellow Americans. I'm not for killing 'em, like you are.

Gal, you're on SS, aren't you? Do you get your check on time?

excon

What kind of medical care can you expect to get when an additional 30 (?) million more people are put on medicare? Especially since more than a third of doctors are saying they will retire early or change professions. Many doctors right now will not accept any new medicare patients. How many young people will go into health care when they know that their investment in education will not be adequately rewarded?

I think we all know that medicare and SS are both bankrupt now, and yes, I get my SS on time. That's only because YOU continue to pay for it. What happens when your generation reaches retirement age?

Your generation may wish it hadn't aborted over 50 million future taxpayers.

Ex I would believe your side more if they weren't telling the rank and file to avoid discussions about the details of the CBO report .

I would believe your side more if they weren't creating procedural tricks to pass probably the most important piece of social legislation in the last 45 years .

Hello gal:

Funny! The CBO (non partisan congressional budget office) says the bill will REDUCE the deficit by $180 billion in the next 10 years, and over a TRILLION in the following 10 years.

Let me see. Should I believe a right wing organization who ISN'T in favor of the bill, or should I believe the non partisan bureaucrats who scored the bill?

YOU believe who you want to, and I'll believe who I want to.

Excon

PS> By the way, the first Bush tax cut ADDED over a TRILLION $$$'s to the deficit. How come you weren't a deficit hawk then?? The NEXT Bush tax cut added MORE to the deficit, I didn't hear a peep from you. Medicare Part D, that Bush passed, added even MORE to the deficit. You?? Nothing!! His wars added even more, but you were ready to invade.

So, NOW you're a deficit hawk?? I understand - really, I do.

Is this the same CBO that underestimated Medicare part D cost:

Updated Estimates of Spending for the Medicare Prescription Drug Program (http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=6139&type=0)



CBO currently estimates that net Medicare spending for the Part D program will total $593 billion over the 2004-2013 period. That is an increase of $41 billion over the original $552 billion estimate of net Medicare spending for Part D


How about the original Medicare estimates?

The Medicare Monster - Reason Magazine (http://reason.com/archives/1993/01/01/the-medicare-monster)




The two primary lessons of Medicare are the chronic problem of woefully underestimating program costs and the impossibility of genuine cost control. A closer look at Medicare shows why these two problems are certain to plague a government-administered universal health-care plan.

The cost of Medicare is a good place to begin. At its start, in 1966, Medicare cost $3 billion. The House Ways and Means Committee estimated that Medicare would cost only about $ 12 billion by 1990 (a figure that included an allowance for inflation). This was a supposedly "conservative" estimate. But in 1990 Medicare actually cost $107 billion.



This was written 17 years ago. I don't even want to know what an update would be like.


Then we have universal healthcare lite in Massachusettes


ER visits and health care costs rise in Massachusetts due to lack of primary care access | KevinMD.com (http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/04/er-visits-and-health-care-costs-rise-in.html)

What a success? In lowering costs? In providing true access to healthcare not just insurance.



It does not take much smarts to realize :

1] medicare and medicaid, government run programs, have not been able to control costs, nor provide guaranteed access to actual healthcare. What percent of physicians accept medicare and or medicaid? It is far from 100%. To think that an extension of medicare and medicaid to all the uninsured, is then going to be able to reduce cost or provide actual access to healthcare, especially if there is no "doctor fix," is absurd. Why rely on estimates of future costs when we have examples of how ineffective medicare, medicaid, medicare D are at containing costs; and that is not even broaching the subject of their solvency in the next 10 or more years.

2] Providing care to an additional 30 million people while theoretically not increasing costs WILL RESULT IN RATIONING AND LONGER WAITING LISTS. This will be further worsened by a shortage of healthcare providers:
Doctors retiring, students deciding not to go into medicine, doctors not accepting the government system.

3] to pay for this will result in HIGHER TAXES. Speaking of which: how can they tax immediately, yet the benefits don't start for 3-4 years? Is this legal? Can you imagine making a car or house payments for a year before actually driving the car or living in the house?!






G&P

Hello again, in:

Well, I guess we DON'T pass ANY more legislation if we can't get good numbers from the CBO.

Maybe we can turn to the right wing for good numbers... Bwa, ha ha ha ha.

excon

I recently heard an even more sinister report.

According to it, the IRS will be the enforcement tool to make sure that everyone buys health insurance.

To pay for the additional employees necessary to do this, an additional 10 Billion dollars would be appropriated.

Can you say Gestapo, or maybe, Politbureau?

Yes that is being reported ;and additional 17,000 IRS agents will handle to load.

You see... Pelosi is right ;this health bill is about jobs !

I fervently pray that this thing does not pass, and that if it does, the legal challenges will be successful.

The way this country has dissed God lately though, He couldn't be blamed if He chooses to let us reap what we have sown.