Hello. My 18 yo daughter was driving a car and stopped on the red light. The driver behind thought that she would pass on yellow and got angry with her, yelled at her, spit on the car and then hit her car from behind on purspose. People who saw this called the police. The driver of the other car fled. My daughter was left at the scene with theree witnesses to wait for police. Police came, filled out the police report, talked to the witnesses one by one and left. Our car damage was not bad, so we fixed it ourselves and just put whole thing behind. Now we have a call from our insurance company that there is a claim. I called and found out that apparently one of the witnesses that was at the scene claims he was a PASSENGER in our car and he was injured. We never picked the police report. Now I am going with my daughter to the precint to pick the police report, but not sure what to expect. Police Officers talked to the witnesses alone and maybe this guy did claimed that he was a passenger. What should be our action? Any advise is greatly appreciated.

... Now we have a call from our insurance company that there is a claim. I called and found out that apparently one of the witnesses that was at the scene claims he was a PASSENGER in our car and he was injured. ..

Don't worry about it. Tell your insurance company your version of the events and let them sort it out.

Could it be that your daughter isn't telling you the whole story for some reason?

Don't worry about it. Tell your insurance company your version of the events and let them sort it out.

Could it be that your daughter isn't telling you the whole story for some reason?


I trust her completely. I knew about whole thing when it happened. She called me right away and told me that three witmesses are waiting with her.

Hello v:

You heard about the cab that crashed into a bar... Three drunks ran out, jumped in, and grabbed their necks...

That's a joke, by the way. I didn't know it would happen in real life.

excon

The whole thing is a big JOKE!! Just went to police and ask them to send the report to fraud department. They did not want to do it because if police officer wrote in the report that this guy was in the car then he was in the car!! 18 y.o. person is always a liar by their definition. Big disappointment!!! After a lot of arguing they agreed to send the case to fraud.

I investigate accidents all the time where there are discrepanices about the passengers. I recently investigated an accident in which the CLIENT is not listed on the Police Report. I've seen it in reverse - person wasn't there but is listed.

The Police in NY verify that the passenger was in the car with the driver (unless someone is taken by ambulance).

I'm curious to see how this plays out.

I also don't know why the Police would be involved with this fraud - maybe the insurance company has some responsibility or interest but the Police simply report what is told to them.

JudyKayTee, thanks for your input. I am not claiming that police is corrupt or anything. They just did not take seriously 18 yo girl who was scared and crying. I contacted an attorney and she told me to fight, we have every right to. I am going to call 1 Police Plaza tomorrow and report that we want police report changed. Also I will talk once again with claim department in my insurance company.

You are going way wrong,
1. police do not "change" their report. They take statements from everyone invovled, they can not change a statement that another person made, They may ( but will not) question them about their statement.

Your daughter can ask for an additoinal statement be put into the record and make a written statement to be added to the report.

Remember the police report is only to see if they will ticket someone, not to determine civil liablity. Even if the police say this person was wrong, the other car at fault and more, it will still go to a civil trial if someone sues.

What you do, turn it over to the insurance company who will if the claim is large enough investigate it. They police have did all the investigation they are going to do, ( this is not CSI ** love that show but not near real life)

No if the police officer writes it, he writes it according to... he states that he was a passenger. And again, it will be his word against another, he will be assumed to be a passenger if he claims to be.

The police will merely add that your daughter claims he was not a passenger. They are just reporting what they are told for a record, that is it, If they have spent over 45 min on the report at this point, it was too long and they just file it and move on.

But if that witness was a passenger in your car, they don't sue you anyway, they sue the other driver who was in the other car.

... But if that witness was a passenger in your car, they don't sue you anyway, they sue the other driver who was in the other car.

Except that they could be going for the medical coverage of the OP's policy.

There is something wrong here. Does the police report confirm, through the witnesses, that your daughter was stopped and rammed? Because if it does, then it does NOT matter whether the witness was in the car or not. Your daughter has no liability, she was a victim. You tell this to your insurance company filing a copy of the police report and they will handle it.

I witnessed an accident several years ago. Two cars were parked on opposite sides of a parking lot lane. They both started backing out at the same time. I started beeping my horn to warn them. The car on the left stopped, the car on the right didn't and backed into the other car. I gave my # to the car on the left and both insurance companies called me. I related my story and the car on the right had 100% liability.

Except that they could be going for the medical coverage of the OP's policy.

Exactly what this witness (aka passenger) is doing, he started the treatment for his injuries. The other car left the scene. The "witness" wrote plate number of that car. Plate number is incorrect, so there is no other car. As far as I understand in situation like this even thou my daughter is not at fault our insurance supposed to pay.

As far as I understand in situation like this even thou my daughter is not at fault our insurance supposed to pay.Hello again, v:

Nahhh. They're not supposed to pay fraudulent claims.. But, it's THEIR nickel. Let 'em pay if they're too lazy to investigate. Certainly inform them that if they do, they oughtn't raise your daughters rates because you TOLD them he was a fraud.

excon

I have investigated thousands of accidents - something doesn't sound right here. "Passenger" is listed on the Police Report AND has injuries?

Where did "Passenger" get injured if not in this particular accident?

I see the insurance company investigating, taking statements.

... Where did "Passenger" get injured if not in this particular accident?
...

Does "faked injury" ring a bell?

Yes, I deal with "faked injuries" all the time.

I am asking the question that the insurance company will ask - if he showed up at a medical treatment facility, claiming to be injured in an auto accident while a passenger and his injuries are consistent with that type of accident - where did he get those injuries?

Otherwise your sarcasm is unwarranted.

There is something wrong here. Does the police report confirm, through the witnesses, that your daughter was stopped and rammed? Because if it does, then it does NOT matter whether the witness was in the car or not. Your daughter has no liability, she was a victim. You tell this to your insurance company filing a copy of the police report and they will handle it.

I witnessed an accident several years ago. Two cars were parked on opposite sides of a parking lot lane. They both started backing out at the same time. I started beeping my horn to warn them. The car on the left stopped, the car on the right didn't and backed into the other car. I gave my # to the car on the left and both insurance companies called me. I related my story and the car on the right had 100% liability.

Not exactly. In NY (where I assume the OP is because she said 1 police plaza) the car in which you are riding is responsible for your medical payments regardless of fault. So when the fraudulent passenger makes a no-fault claim, it wwould be against the OP's insurance.

Not exactly. In NY (where I assume the OP is because she said 1 police plaza) the car in which you are riding is responsible for your medical payments regardless of fault. So when the fraudulent passenger makes a no-fault claim, it wwould be against the OP's insurance.

Yes we are in NY, Accident happened in Brooklyn.

Yes, I deal with "faked injuries" all the time.

I am asking the question that the insurance company will ask - if he showed up at a medical treatment facility, claiming to be injured in an auto accident while a passenger and his injuries are consistent with that type of accident - where did he get those injuries?

Otherwise your sarcasm is unwarranted.

Well what I have seen a lot of here in the City is the fraud running not just from the passenger, but to the medical facilities as well. These people will have police scanners and show up at accident scenes. It happens particularly with City Bus accidents. Bus gets in an accident and all of a sudden 50 people were "on the bus" when the police show up. Then they go to a certain set of doctors and a certain diagnostic radiologist and they have their "injuries' either created or greatly exaggerated.

Well what I have seen alot of here in the City is the fraud running not just from the passenger, but to the medical facilities as well.Hello side:

Sounds like the insurance companies ought to beef up their fraud departments instead of laying down and passing the costs on. Who knows? It might actually reduce fraud.

No, I'm not a fan of insurance companies.

excon

Yes we are in NY, Accident happened in Brooklyn.

Well, just to put your mind at ease, all you really need to do is call and tell your insurance company that the guy wasn't in your car and your involvement should be done.

Hello side:

Sounds like the insurance companies ought to beef up their fraud departments instead of laying down and passing the costs on. Who knows? It might actually reduce fraud.

No, I'm not a fan of insurance companies.

excon

They work pretty hard in my experience actually. Some (Geico, State Farm, etc) even have defense lawyers asking questions at depositions now aimed at nailing unethical plaintiff's firms. The "how were you referred to your attorney" question is becoming commonplace. It is of course looking to get the firms who dispatch runners to hospitals and accident scenes with business cards to solicit cases, which is a violation of the disciplinary rules.

Where did "Passenger" get injured if not in this particular accident?


... if he showed up at a medical treatment facility, claiming to be injured in an auto accident while a passenger and his injuries are consistent with that type of accident - where did he get those injuries?

Otherwise your sarcasm is unwarranted.

Otherwise than what?

The thing is, I can't understand your point. You seemed to be suggesting that injuries wouldn't be likely unless the so-called passenger was in the particular accident (and thus the insurance company would be inclined to pay a no-fault medical claim). If in fact the "passenger" has visible injuries, yes. But it seems more likely that the "passenger" is saying "my neck hurts", and acertaining the fact of injury might be more trouble than it's worth.

This is a claim filed with the insurance company. I realize you can't understand my point.

I am saying that if a person is listed on a PAR and presents medical bills which are consistent with "that type" of auto accident an insurance company is going to believe that person was, in fact, a passenger in the automobile.

Maybe it's different in your area but where I am the Police ASK the driver who was in the car. People can't come out from the bushes and claim they were passengers. This isn't NYC and this isn't a bus.

... where I am the Police ASK the driver who was in the car. ...

That would be the obvious thing to do. Or at least ask each witness where he/she was when the accident happened. Either way would tend to end in the same information being reported.

But it is interesting that we still don't know what the police report says about the witness who is claiming to be injured. I hope the OP hasn't gotten us all curious about this and then forgotten us. :)

Perhaps our witness, upon realizing that he/she would need medical bills (and couldn't recover extra cash), just decided to forget the whole thing.

Well, just to put your mind at ease, all you really need to do is call and tell your insurance company that the guy wasn't in your car and your involvement should be done.

This is what I was saying. If the claimant was not a passenger in the daughter's car and the police report confirms she was stopped and rammed, then she has no liability. If her carrier decides to pay rather than pay to fight, that's their choice.

This is what I was saying. If the claimant was not a passenger in the daughter's car and the police report confirms she was stopped and rammed, then she has no liability. If her carrier decides to pay rather than pay to fight, that's their choice.

I get what you are saying, and you are right MOST of the time, but getting hit in the rear isn't a hard and fast rule of liability.

The rule in New York regarding a hit in the rear is not prima facie liability, but a burden shift to the defendant. Normally the burden is on a plaintiff to prove negligence of a defendant, however a hit in the rear case carries a rebuttable presumption of liability on the part of the rear car.

The reason I say it isn't a given is the existence of often used but seldom successful defenses such as "stopping short", emergency doctrine, etc.

I thought the OP said the other car left the scene. Then just who would pay for this guy's imaginary injuries - certainly not the other car who caused the accident as no information was gathered regarding it other than a wrong license plate number.

I thought the OP said the other car left the scene. Then just who would pay for this guy's imaginary injuries - certainly not the other car who caused the accident as no information was gathered regarding it other than a wrong license plate number.

Well in New York, the no-fault insurance for the car you occupy pays for medical and economic loss. So that would be the OP's car.

If you are speaking about an action to recover for pain and suffering, the passenger would attempt to recover under MVAIC. I have explained what it is in other posts, if you are interested, just search for it.

I get what you are saying, and you are right MOST of the time, but getting hit in the rear isn't a hard and fast rule of liability.

The rule in New York regarding a hit in the rear is not prima facie liability, but a burden shift to the defendant. Normally the burden is on a plaintiff to prove negligence of a defendant, however a hit in the rear case carries a rebuttable presumption of liability on the part of the rear car.

The reason I say it isn't a given is the existance of often used but seldom successful defenses such as "stopping short", emergency doctrine, etc.

I don't disagree with you, but my comments are based on the facts as presented by the OP. Her statement was that her daughter was stopped for a light. If I understand her correctly, the daughter stopped on a yellow that the driver in the rear felt she could have gone through. AFTER she was stopped, the driver went into a rage which included ramming her car. Given THOSE circumstances, especially since there appear to be witnesses to confirm those circumstances. Then she has no liability.


Well in New York, the no-fault insurance for the car you occupy pays for medical and economic loss. So that would be the OP's car.

If you are speaking about an action to recover for pain and suffering, the passenger would attempt to recover under MVAIC. I have explained what it is in other posts, if you are interested, just search for it.

I just re-read what the OP said. I'm assuming the claimant was a complete stranger. So I wonder how they can get away with claiming he was a passenger in the daughter's car. The police report is going to be an issue here to see what the police recording the witness as saying. If he did claim to be a passenger, then the daughter is going to have to prove he wasn't.

You need to reread what the OP has said. The claimant was not a passenger of the daughter's car but of the car that fled.
Uhm, I just re-read it. That is exactly what she said.

Uhm, I just re-read it. That is exactly what she said.

Yes I reread it to, and edited my post. My bad!

I appreciate everyone who answered. I probably was not very clear explaining the whole thing (English is my second language). Below is the letter that I sent to my insurance company with all the details. I changed the names of people involved as well as actual intersection of the accident.


To Whom It May Concerns,

This letter is to notify xxxxxx Insurance Company that the claim opened by John Doe is fraudulent.
Mr. Doe was never a passenger in my car and he was not involved in the car accident.

Sequence of events:
I had a car accident on Feb 2, 2010, at 15:35.
I was proceeding in the car (2007 Toyota RAV-4, Plate# XXXXXXX) on Street N, Brooklyn NY. On the intersection of Street N and Park Ave the light changed from green to yellow and I have stopped. The car that was immediately behind mine drove parallel to me on my right side. The driver opened his window, yelled curses, spit on my car; apparently he was upset that I did not proceed on yellow light. After that he backed off and intentionally hit the back of my car. After that he left the scene. The cars description is black, old model W/V.
At the same time a person (male, approximately 35-40 y.o) called 911, ran to me saying that he saw what happened and recorded the license plate of the car. He stayed at the scene until police arrived (approximately 1, 5 hours). Another person came offering a repair to the car. He said that he owns a shop and can fix the damage. He was hanging out with the witness. I have his card.

Police arrived at approximately 17:00. There were two police officers (one of the officers examined the car, questioned the witness and me, second officer never left the car). I explained what happened to the Officer. After that Police Officer interviewed the witness, and recorded his info. After speaking with the witness Officer came back to me and asked if I had a passenger with me. I confirmed again that I was alone in the car. Police checked the license plate of the assaulting car that the witness recorded and stated that it is not identical to what I described. Police left.

I was not injured in the accident; the car damaged was not extensive. I decided that there is no point to contact insurance company and open the claim. I just went to car repair shop and fixed my car.

On March 9, 2010 I’ve got a call from my insurance company that they want to discuss an open claim for accident that happened on Feb 2, 2010. I called examiner on the claim and found out that the claim was made by the doctor office on behalf of John Doe. He claims he was a passenger in my car and was injured in the accident. Next day I went to police precinct to pick up the accident police report and was stunned to find out Mr. Doe listed as passenger in my car. Mr. Doe was the witness who called the police when accident occurred and who waited for police to arrive. It never occurred to me that he can claim he was in the car. He is complete stranger; the first time I ever saw him was when he saw an accident and started to call 911. I relay this story in police precinct to Officer XXXX (Precinct XX, Brooklyn NY). His response was that if officers at the scene listed Mr. Doe as passenger then this is what happened. He actually suggested that because I am 18 years old I cannot be trusted and lying. I demanded that police notify Fraud Unit about this intended fraud.

The letter is good except I would change the last part:

I relay this story in police precinct to Officer XXXX (Precinct XX, Brooklyn NY). His response was that was what the report showed. I asked that police notify Fraud Unit about this intended fraud.

You do not want to attack the police. Your daughter just needs to state unequivocally, that she was alone in the car and had never laid eyes on Mr Doe prior to the accident. Your carrier will then interview Mr Doe and try to get proof that he was a passenger. Do not worry too much about the police report. The police officer did not witness the accident and only took down what the witness told him. So the bottom line is that he is going to have show that he was in your daughter's car.

Everyone is weighing in (presumably) from his/her own experience - all of which is different - as I am. I am assigned these "phantom passenger" cases. In my experience the insured tells the insurance company there was no passenger, the Police Report is incorrect. The insurance company then takes a SWORN STATEMENT from the driver of the car and the insured (if they are different people), a statement under oath, admissible in Court, available for cross examination if that time ever comes.

If he/she is willing to cooperate I take a statement from the injured "passenger." I have seen companies demand a statement from the "passenger" before making payment; I have also seen insurance companies simply pay the claim.

An insured cannot keep an insurance company from paying a claim. Everyone either knows someone or has experienced the payment of an "unfair" claim.

I think the OP is going about this the wrong way - a simple letter without all of this info is all that is necessary. "So and so made a claim. So and so was not a passenger. I would like to give a sworn statement."

As I said, everyone has a different experience and this is mine, based on field work.

Will the Police file an amended report? I rather doubt it. Does it matter? I rather doubt it.

An insured cannot keep an insurance company from paying a claim. Everyone either knows someone or has experienced the payment of an "unfair" claim.


I agree with Judy. But I wanted to relate my unfair claim story. My wife was parallel parked in front of our bank. There was a car behind her. She was backing up to exit the spot when she bumped the car behind her. The problem was two fold. The damage was to the passenger side hood of the vehicle she bumped. When you are backing up the exit a curb spot, you would have to be at a very steep angle to the curb for your rear driver's side to hit the passenger side. In addition, the height of the bumpers of the respective cars, would not allow our car to hit the hood of the other car. Ergo it was physically impossible for our car to do the damage they were claiming. Our carrier paid the claim rather than fight it, even though the evidence was against the other driver.

Here is latest update: Special Investigator from our insurance company came to interview my daughter. She told her side of the story. Also we gave him a printout of the telephone bill with all the calls. BTW, there were no communication between my daughter and the "witness" (aka passenger) before or on a day of accident. Today this guy had an appointment in regional office of our insurance company for interview under oath. He has to come with his lawyer and also bring a copy of his telephone bill. Tomorrow I'll call the investigator to find out if there are any news on the case.

In your original OP you didn't mention the guy who owned the body shop mysteriously arriving at the accident. You said "I have his card". Bet he doesn't live in that area or his shop is nowhere closeby either for that matter. Mr. Passenger called him up to come to the latest accident. I'll bet it's scam that the mysterious passenger/witness and body shop owner have pulled many times before. And being Brooklyn I'll easily win that bet. And the older "crash" car is probably used in many such contrived accidents on young, unsuspecting drivers. Don't you find it odd that the "witness" got the wrong license plate number as well? How convenient of him. Also in your OP you mentioned THREE witnesses waiting for the police to show up. Who was the other witness?

Years ago in Florida the staged accidents were quite popular as a great way to make money. I'll also wager that the doctor/clinic where his injuries were "treated" also also in on this scam.

Be sure to tell your insurance company about the body shop owner's involvement in this scenerio of scamming as I'm sure other insurance companies have inadvertently used his services. The insurance companies do "talk" to each other about this stuff in their data banks. Same goes for doctors/clinics being in on scams as well.

Face it. If your daughter was not driving a rather new 2007 Toyota SUV that costs an arm and a leg this "accident" would never have happened. Had it been a "beater" car or junker the accident would never have happened. The high dollar vehicle was just screaming "money" with a bullhorn. And the crash car was probably cruising that neighborhood/corner with the "witness" conviently nearby.

Many years ago in Florida my late husband dented another car's hubcap in a minor incident when the other car stopped in front of him sideways. No other damage to the other car or my car period. Years later I found out from my insurance company that the other driver had put in a physical injury claim for this dent in the hub cap and my insurance company paid him thousands and NEVER contacted me about this accident! I was floored. And the other driver was a MiddleEastern person who could barely speak English according to my husband. A dented hub cap caused all that damage? I don't think so. It was obviously a scam but my insurance company just paid anyway. I think it was State Farm. Apparently they didn't care to investigate or call me or write to me about this. I handled all the insurance for the household and the car and insurance were in my name.