If people don't believe in God or a God what do they believe in?

I don't know what , "They" believe in but I know there is a God. He gave his son for our sins. We have to be saved by asking forgiveness and accept him in our hearts as our personal Saviour. We are saved by the blood he shed for us. We are begotten by his words and saved by his grace.

There is a heaven and a hell and God gives us a free will. He doesn't force us to do his bidding, but we as Christians know what is right and wrong. We fail him everday, but he forgives.

Now Satan is a very different story. If he had the power to make us do everything he wanted us too, he would. But Satan doesn't have the power our Lord has. He trembles at the words of the Lord and he flees when we speak God's name. He doesn't give up but we have to rebuke
Him. So you have your answer as to what I believe and I won't argue about it. You can't change what I believe anymore than I can change yours. Blessings

If people don't believe in God or a God what do they believe in?

I,as an atheist,don't follow any beliefs,no deities,no supernatural beings,no little green men from space.

I haven't been a 'follower' of any religion for more than 25-30 years.

I believe that the sun will rise,the rain will fall and the earth is round.What more do I need to believe in?

If people don't believe in God or a God what do they believe in?

The answer is simple. They accept the physical sciences. They accept thatit has been proven that the earth orbits around the sun rotating on its exists every 24 hours. This causes the illusion of the sun rising and falling. They accept that if you drop a solid object it will fall, that's called gravity. Then accept that if you nurture a seed, it will grow, that is a biological fact. They accept that if you mix certain chemicals a certain reaction will occur, it is called chemistry. I could go on and on.

Personally, I am a deist. I believe that some intelligent force set up these physical laws that govern how life on this planet functions. I do not believe in some benevolent or omnipotent being that had a child and killed that child to absolve the sins of everyone else. I certainly do not believe that we have to accept that particular deity to be saved for some future plane of existence.

I,as an atheist,don't follow any beliefs,no deities,no supernatural beings,no little green men from space.

I haven't been a 'follower' of any religion for more than 25-30 years.

I believe that the sun will rise,the rain will fall and the earth is round.What more do I need to believe in?

It is your right tto believe anything you want to believe. I just know I couldn't make it without God.

The answer is simple. They accept the physical sciences. They accept thatit has been proven that the earth orbits around the sun rotating on its exists every 24 hours. This causes the illusion of the sun rising and falling. They accept that if you drop a solid object it will fall, that's called gravity. Then accept that if you nurture a seed, it will grow, that is a biological fact. They accept that if you mix certain chemicals a certain reaction will occur, it is called chemistry. I could go on and on.

Personally, I am a deist. I believe that some intelligent force set up these physical laws that govern how life on this planet functions. I do not believe in some benevolent or omnipotent being that had a child and killed that child to absolve the sins of everyone else. I certainly do not believe that we have to accept that particular deity to be saved for some future plane of existence.

Scottgem.. I don't argue religion or politics and I say this with kindness, there have been too many miracles in my life and I know the Lord performed those miracles.

I,as an atheist,don't follow any beliefs,no deities,no supernatural beings,no little green men from space.

I haven't been a 'follower' of any religion for more than 25-30 years.

I believe that the sun will rise,the rain will fall and the earth is round.What more do I need to believe in?This would be my answer as well. Well said.

This would be my answer as well. Well said.

We all have a right to believe in what we want. As I said.. I give God the glory for all the things in my life he has blessed me with.

We all have a right to beleive in what we want. As I said..I give God the glory for all the things in my life he has blessed me with.You seemed to have a need to respond to people who say they don't believe in what you do. Why is that?

Scottgem..I don't argue religion or politics and I say this with kindness, there have been too many miracles in my life and I know the Lord performed those miracles.

I'm confused here. Yes I referred to your comments in stating what I do and don't believe. But, like you did, I was only stating my beliefs. I was not arguing. But for someone who doesn't want to argue, you are questioning people who posted their beliefs.

You seemed to have a need to respond to people who say they don't believe in what you do. Why is that?



You're right. I thought when my email says to respond that meant I have to answer a question or give my opinion. That isn't what it means is it? Sorry, I'm still learning.

You seemed to have a need to respond to people who say they don't believe in what you do. Why is that?

Hey guys I thought when my email says to respond or I have a answer from someone it was meant for me to respond! No wonder I have so many post. Sorry guys I'm not being mean. Okay.. Just learning. If I thought one word would change your mind, I would argue. But that word would have to be put in my heart by the Lord. I know you could never change my mind about what I believe and I cannot change yours. Okay so I won't add anymore to this post.

I'm confused here. yes I referred to your comments in stating what I do and don't beleive. But, like you did, I was only stating my beliefs. I was not arguing. But for someone who doesn't want to argue, you are questioning people who posted their beliefs.


Like I stated I thought it was a given we respond when we get an email. You all have been on here a lot longer than me and I'm still learning. I don't think I was questioning your beliefs but if you think I was maybe I was. I would never try to change your mind unless the Lord puts the words into my heart to say. People who witness to other people shouldn't do it to prove a point or a try to change someone's mind unless God puts the words in their heart to say. God will do that in his own way. Thanks

No, the e-mail notification is just stated that a new reply has been added to a thread you are subscribed to. It is your choice whether you respond further to that thread. I'll accept your explanation.

No, the e-mail notification is just stated that a new reply has been added to a thread you are subscribed to. It is your choice whether you respond further to that thread. I'll accept your explanation.

Okay first of all I wanted to say I thought when you get an email you have to respond. So I do. As far as trying to change your mind or Karmas mind I won't do that because if God doesn't put the words in my heart to say it would be futile to argue. You are strong in your belief aand I am strong in mine. I did edit the post and add a little more. Look I'm not as educated as you and most of the people on this forum and if I feel I've hurt anyone by something I say or do then I apologize maybe I don't need to be here.

I want to help people not put them down and I don't want to get mad and say mean things but I do. The one thing I will never apologize for is my belief in my salvation, my belief that God, The father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. He has been my rock. I will say this again and that is ;you have every right to your beliefs and I have no right to question them. I didn't think I had done that. Thanks

I don't know if I believe in "God", but I do believe that there is something after death, if it is heaven, hell,reincarnation or whatever. I refuse to believe I'm just going to die one day, and nothing is waiting on the other side, I'm not religious nor do I plan on becoming religious. I guess I'm kind of in the middle of believing or not, no miracle has happened that makes me a believer but nothing has shown me not to be either.

"I'd rather live my whole life believing there is a god, and die and find out there is not, then live my whole life believing there is not a god, and die and find out there is"

"I'd rather live my whole life believing there is a god, and die and find out there is not, then live my whole life believing there is not a god, and die and find out there is"
Weird, my quote would the exact opposite of that. :) To each their own I guess.

I don't know about everyone, but some people who don't believe in god believe science makes more sense than the universal god. I don't believe in either.

Weird, my quote would the exact opposite of that. :) To each their own I guess.

I guess, I'd just feel kind of embarrassed thinking there is not a god and then I die and there is, if it's the opposite oh well..

I guess, I'd just feel kinda embarrassed thinking there is not a god and then i die and there is, if its the opposite oh well..
Your feeling is not unique, see Pascal's Wager - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager)

Your feeling is not unique, see Pascal's Wager - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager)
That's good to know there is other people who think the same as I do! Definantly reassuring that whatever happens after life, I'm not alone :)

"I'd rather live my whole life believing there is a god, and die and find out there is not, then live my whole life believing there is not a god, and die and find out there is"

They say there are no atheists in foxholes. ;)

I partially agree with your quote there. But my belief is simply in doing good. I believe that if I live a life that is ethical and moral. If I follow the "Golden rule" and if I help people and do good works, then if there is a god and an afterlife, I will be rewarded for having lead a good life. I do not believe that there is a god that requires you to worship him (her?) in any specific way. I especially do not believe in a god that will punish people simply because you didn't subscribe to the "right" religion or any religion at all. That's why I do not believe in organized religions. To me its all about how one lives their life, not how one follows a religion.

They believe in nothing. It is the ultimate negative position, everything is meaningless, I'm just a pond scum a few million years advanced, what a negative position and the reality is we still have pond scum. Or alternatively I'm an advanced monkey, an ape with a brain, and yet we still have apes in their natural state. I have news for them I don't have an opposable thumb on my foot. I find such beliefs beyond reason and I know some very advanced thinkers do also.
''ok God created us, what is so difficult about there being a creator? A being who is greater than us. We are greater than the ant, We are greater than a microbe, so big in fact the microbe probably doesn't know we exist. How is it difficult to understand that God can exist in a similar relationship?

They believe in nothing. It is the ultimate negative position, everything is meaningless, I'm just a pond scum a few million years advanced, what a negative position and the reality is we still have pond scum. or alternatively I'm an advanced monkey, an ape with a brain, and yet we still have apes in their natural state. I have news for them I don't have an opposable thumb on my foot. I find such beliefs beyond reason and I know some very advanced thinkers do also.
''ok God created us, what is so difficult about there being a creator? A being who is greater than us. We are greater than the ant, We are greater than a microbe, so big in fact the microbe probally doesn't know we exist. How is it difficult to understand that God can exist in a similar relationship?


It is interesting how close ScottGem has come to pointing out some important features of Kantian ethics. I was particularly interested in his idea of following the 'Golden Rule'. Scott goes on to say,"if I help people and do good works, then there is a God and an after life".

Interestingly enough this is Kant's position. The moral law (Golden Rule) requires people to be rewarded proportionately to their virtue. In day to day life people who are not virtuous may be happier than those who are. It is obvious to Kant and many other people that there are many things in this world which are unjust. It is equally obvious that many good people in this world are not rewarded for the efforts.

Kant therefore infers there must be another existence where these people can be rewarded. In other words, Kant's conclusion is that there must be a God and an eternal life.

The reason I have used paraclete's quote is to ask two questions.

Firstly, how does this show that Deists believe in nothing?

Secondly, what does Deism have to do with evolution?

Regards

Tut

I don't believe in a god, persay. What I believe is that there is a cosmic energy, that I choose to call 'the universe,' behind everything. I don't, necessarily, believe that it's sentient, or cares what goes on here on earth. I don't worship it. Sometimes, when I feel the need or desire, I will ask it for help or thank it for helping me.

Do I believe it hears me every time? no. do I believe it can hear me? Yes. Do I believe it cares? Sometimes.

Now, I'm not sure what I believe for the afterlife. I don't believe in heaven or hell. I also don't believe that death is the end. I sit somewhere between reincarnation and the concept of nirvana (where your soul's energy joins the great cosmic energy and 'self' ceases to be).

They believe in nothing. It is the ultimate negative position, everything is meaningless,I'm sorry to hear that if you didn't believe in your god then you think your life is meaningless. I guess you have a vested interest in having faith.

They believe in nothing. It is the ultimate negative position, everything is meaningless,

That, to me is a very negative outlook. Personally, I don't believe in nothing, nor do I feel I am being negative. I do believe that that doing good has its own rewards. I do not need the belief in a god or a nirvana to inspire me to do good. I take pleasure in knowing I have done good.


it is interesting how close ScottGem has come to pointing out some important features of Kantian ethics. I was particularly interested in his idea of following the 'Golden Rule'. Scott goes on to say,"if I help people and do good works, then there is a God and an after life".


I don't know if this was a typo or whether you were citing Kantian ethics. But you left out a very important word in your quote of what I said. I actually said "If I help...then IF there is a God". That IF is central to my belief because I will only find out after I die. Ergo, I go the opposite to Kant. Because I believe that evil sometimes goes unpunished and good sometimes goes unrewarded, that infers to me that there is no God, at least not one that is watching over things gently guiding what happens in this plane of existence.

I don't know if this was a typo or whether you were citing Kantian ethics. But you left out a very important word in your quote of what I said. I actually said "If I help...then IF there is a God". That IF is central to my belief because I will only find out after I die. Ergo, I go the opposite to Kant. Because I believe that evil sometimes goes unpunished and good sometimes goes unrewarded, that infers to me that there is no God, at least not one that is watching over things gently guiding what happens in this plane of existence.

Hi Scott,

Sorry for the misquote. You know what you believe better than anyone else.

I could see an interesting parallel when I read about the 'Golden Rule'.
Kant would call this rule the categorical imperative.

This also brings to light something I have not thought of in the past. That is, to what extend could we say that Kant was a Deist?

Regards
Tut

This concept of doing good and not doing bad, of right and wrong, is universal. Where does it come from? Who determines what is good or bad? Or the degree of goodness or badness? How much goodness do you have to do to outweigh the bad? What is the point of all this "morality" if this is it. You live you die. You decompose just like an ant or a dog etc. There is no God. What if what you or what we thought of as good, is really bad by God's standard? How do you know what God has planned for you if you were good or bad? What if there is an afterlife, but what is heaven for you is hell for me?

Agree with the OP.


G&P

What if there is an afterlife, but what is heaven for you is hell for me?

If there is a heaven, then I think it would different for everyone. In order for it to truly BE heaven, it would have to be somewhere you would love to spend the rest of eternity. Since not everyone could ever possibly agree on something like that, it would have to be different for everyone.

One person may see rolling fields and hills and woodlands as far as the eye can see. Another may see disney land. Another may be on a boat in the middle of the ocean. Another could be at the top of a mountain looking down on the clouds. Another may be in a nightclub hosting an eternal orgy.

ocean. another could be at the top of a mountain looking down on the clouds. another may be in a nightclub hosting an eternal orgy.

You have just described a vision of hell because if that is what you think is heaven then you ain't going

You have just described a vision of hell becuase if that is what you think is heaven then you ain't goin

Thankfully that's not your decision to make. :)

I'm a Deist but I have an open mind.

As for what I believe, I believe in myself, my family, the love in people, the goodness in the world. I have very strong beliefs, they just aren't the same as a Christians belief. That doesn't mean that my life has no meaning or purpose, in fact it's quite the opposite.

This concept of doing good and not doing bad, of right and wrong, is universal. Where does it come from? Who determines what is good or bad? or the degree of goodness or badness? How much goodness do you have to do to outweigh the bad? What is the point of all this "morality" if this is it. You live you die. You decompose just like an ant or a dog etc. There is no God. What if what you or what we thought of as good, is really bad by God's standard? How do you know what God has planned for you if you were good or bad? What if there is an afterlife, but what is heaven for you is hell for me?

Agree with the OP.


G&P

Hi inthebox,

A very good question. Is it possible to have a theory of morality which is universal without it being imposed from an outside agency. Kant would say that we can.

The key question for Kant is what is the difference between a person who acts morally and a person who does not? The answer for Kant lay in distinguishing between acts done from impulse and acts done from a sense of duty. Only acts done from impulse( inclination) and acts done from a sense of duty indicate that a person is a free agent.

By this Kant means that if we are forced to act in a moral way because of punishment in this life or the next then we are not a free agent.

Hheath's example of the nightclub is an interesting one. Someone who goes to a nightclub for a 'fun time' has the choice of going or not going. If they decide to go even though they feel it is morally wrong they have at least made a decision. The question then becomes, is this choice moral or immoral? No doubt some people would say that there is nothing immoral about this sort of activity.

How can we make a decision about this type of activity? Is it universally right or wrong? It is not good saying that it is good for some and bad for others.

Kant would put this to the test by saying that every action must be judged in light of how it be if it were to become a UNIVERSAL CODE OF BEHAVIOUR.

If people don't believe in God or a God what do they believe in?hello e:

Why do I have to believe in anything? Oh, I believe some stuff - like when it's dark I believe the sun is going to come up.

excon

You have just described a vision of hell becuase if that is what you think is heaven then you ain't goin
I think that's an example of the attitude that keeps people away from churches and religion.

I think that's an example of the attitude that keeps people away from churches and religion.

Exactly! The whole fire and brimstone thing isn't very appealing. ;)

I believe in myself. I went to catholic school for 9 years (K through 8) and the one thing I learned was these people are full of it. Plus I punched a priest and have never been and will never be sorry for doing it. So I guess that (plus many many other things I will not discuss) rules me out of heaven since I gave one of god's boys a bloody lip.

why do people need justification in something like this. Religion = politics. Always has, always will. Politics is a system of beliefs and ideals- oh wait, that's what religion is. How much more simple can it get?
I like spitvenom's post. "I believe in myself".
why people need to debate over whether santa claus exists is beyond me. Sorry if I offend, but that's my stance.

You have just described a vision of hell becuase if that is what you think is heaven then you ain't goin

If you reread my post, you'll see that I was giving examples of what people might see as heavenly (ie. Somewhere they would like to spend eternity).

If you go back and read my original post in this thread, you'll see that I don't believe in heaven at all. I have no desire to go to heaven. I find the typical christian view of heaven boring and suffocatingly fake. When I said as much in church when I was about 13-14, it did not go over well.

I don't believe in God.
I believe in science and evolution.

I do not know how life started exactly... no-one does, but I don't think it was created by some all-powerful being.

I respect that people do believe that, but to be honest, it just sounds silly to me how some people devote their entire lives to something that may or may not exist.

And if there is a God, (for those who believe) who created God?
He couldn't have just appeared one day.

I don't believe in God.
I believe in science and evolution.

I do not know how life started exactly... no-one does, but I don't think it was created by some all-powerful being.

I respect that people do believe that, but to be honest, it just sounds silly to me how some people devote their entire lives to something that may or may not exist.

And if there is a God, (for those who believe) who created God?
He couldn't have just appeared one day.


Hi Shaz,

The idea that there must be a first cause (God) who set the universe in motion was first put forward by Aristotle. He called the first cause the unmoved mover. Aristotle saw movement in the world and reasoned that movement is caused by a sequence of events. It is possible to say that something always is the cause of something else.

In order to avoid an infinite series of events it seems that any series of events must have a first cause. In other words, someone or something must have caused the first movement.

This idea was taken up by Christian philosophers such as St. Thomas who formulated what came to be known as the cosmological argument. This argument demonstrates the existence of God as the first cause.

From my point of view I think the cosmological argument is a good one but there are many others who don't. Hume and Kant were critical of the argument and their reasons set the argument back in modern times.

You question regarding who caused God is a good one from a philosophical point of view. As I said before, I accept the cosmological argument, but that is just me.

Hume would agree with you and say that there is no reason to think that causation is true. We can conceive of effects without conceiving of them being caused. Science can also show there are events which don't appear to have a cause.

The reality is that this topic is subject to hundreds of pages of debate.

Regards

Tut

I believe in myself. I went to catholic school for 9 years (K through 8) and the one thing I learned was these people are full of it. Plus I punched a priest and have never been and will never be sorry for doing it. So I guess that (plus many many other things I will not discuss) rules me out of heaven since I gave one of god's boys a bloody lip.

You do know that what you did is not the unforgivable sin, the Lord will forgive you if you want to be forgiven, and as the RCC isn't the only expression of Christianity, so you should come in from the cold

You do know that what you did is not the unforgivable sin, the Lord will forgive you if you want to be forgiven, and as the RCC isn't the only expression of Christianity, so you should come in from the cold
a) only if one believes in the concept of religious sin
b) how about you take a step back from bashing catholics every chance you get - you are a prime example of what turns people off religion

You do know that what you did is not the unforgivable sin, the Lord will forgive you if you want to be forgiven, and as the RCC isn't the only expression of Christianity, so you should come in from the cold

You are making a grossly generalized and biased assumption that everyone NEEDS a religion and, further, that that religion should be christianity. Neither are true.

a) only if one believes in the concept of religious sin
b) how about you take a step back from bashing catholics every chance you get - you are a prime example of what turns people off religion

Who's bashing Catholics, it's not bashing catholics to say the RCC is not the only expression of Christianity.

Had you stopped long enough to see that the person was speaking from the perspective of someone who had found difficulty with the Catholic perspective you might not have found it necessary to have a rant about religion and my mention of the RCC.

why don't you put a sock in it? We don't want you athiestic perspective.

I believe there is some form of higher power, with many names. God, Gods, The Divine, etc. I believe there is a balance. I believe in energy. I believe in science

Who's bashing Catholics, it's not bashing catholics to say the RCC is not the only expression of Christianity.

Had you stopped long enough to see that the person was speaking from the perspective of someone who had found difficulty with the Catholic perspective you might not have found it necessary to have a rant about religion and my mention of the RCC.

why don't you put a sock in it? we don't want you athiestic perspective.

Actually, the OP seems to want exactly that.

a) only if one believes in the concept of religious sin
b) how about you take a step back from bashing catholics every chance you get - you are a prime example of what turns people off religion

I agree

And also, go perry the platapus

I agree

and also, go perry the platapus


Who is perry the platapus? Platypus?

Who is perry the platapus? platypus?

Karma's avvie.

Thanks for the explanation Tut.

Paraclete, I'm not bashing Christianity at all, it's their/your decision to believe what you do and I have no problem with that.

The OP asked what people believe in if they don't believe in God.
Being an atheist, my answer is science and evolution.

If you and others believe that I am going to hell because of this then that is your choice. It's a good thing that some try to better their lives through God but it's just not for me.

If you want to dig a little deeper, I believe in re-incarnation of sorts... not that when I die I will be born as something else, but I do believe that when we die out energy is used for something else, even if it is just powering a lightbulb.

Who's bashing Catholics, it's not bashing catholics to say the RCC is not the only expression of Christianity.

Had you stopped long enough to see that the person was speaking from the perspective of someone who had found difficulty with the Catholic perspective you might not have found it necessary to have a rant about religion and my mention of the RCC.

why don't you put a sock in it? we don't want you athiestic perspective.

You are a very angry person, aren't you?

Do you not realize that your postings push people further away from religion? You are an example of the very type of person I left behind when I stopped being a Christian. The "Do as I say or else, my way or the highway" group. No thank you.

What happened to kindness, acceptance, being a good Christian? If you truly believe in the Christian religion then it's time for you to re-read the bible because you aren't acting in a very Christian way. Just my opinion, but I think others will agree.

You cannot shove your beliefs down someone's throat and not expect them to fight you. Persuasion is better then force. Just fyi.

Interesting discussion. All I have are questions.

If your god is infinite, why do you bother with names? Isn't that trying to limit the infinite?

If your god is not infinite, why do you call it a god?

I believe I need more coffee.

The question is if you don't believe in "God" in what do you believe. I believe there is a balance of energy. I believe that there is some form of higher power that many people worship in many ways. I also believe we weren't meant to all worship the same way. I believe that there is a deity that encompasses all religions

Interesting discussion. All I have are questions.

If your god is infinite, why do you bother with names? Isn't that trying to limit the infinite?

If your god is not infinite, why do you call it a god?

I believe I need more coffee.

The ancients almost always had gods with limits, that's why they had several gods. Judaism was among the first, if not THE first, religion to have an all-powerful god, which is why they only had one god.

The greek gods were all-powerful, as long as they stayed within their niche. Aphrodite had complete dominion over love and beauty, but no power over death or war. Hades controlled death, but had no power in the living world. Ares was the god of war, and could influence all it encompassed, but had no effect on those who chose not to wage war.

The gods could work together, or take over where another had left off. Ares and hades had a close relationship, for obvious reasons. Ares and hades, both, could reap the benefits of the after-effects of aphrodite's work (spurned lovers, jealous rivals, depressed ex-lovers).

As for naming then; I have no idea. Some religions give their god(s) names. Some call them only 'god', either because they feel they don't have the right to name them, or that god IS his name. Still others use more general terms to avoid naming at all.

Why religions chose to name their deities as they did, I don't know. Then, there are, of course, the individuals who choose to follow a religion that has no organized naming convention, and choose for themselves what to call their god(s).

Interesting discussion. All I have are questions.

If your god is infinite, why do you bother with names? Isn't that trying to limit the infinite?


I believe I need more coffee.

Hi Cats,

The answer to your above question is yes. The generally accepted interpretation of God as infinite means that God exists out side of time and space.

However, this creates an interesting problem. When we say that something in infinite what exactly do we mean? If I were to say that I have an infinite amount of time to sit in front of this computer then I cannot say that I have to go at 1 pm, 5 pm, 3 am. To do so would put a limit on my time. In other words, my time isn't infinite it is finite.

As you can see by giving time a name I am limiting the infinite by making it finite. The same problem can arise when talking about God. If God decided to take himself out of the infinite in order to make himself known to us then he is no longer infinite; at least in terms that we can understand. We have no choice but to give him some type of name.

A famous scientist once said ( I cannot remember his name) that infinities only serve to show our ignorance.

Regards

Tut

If God decided to take himself out of the infinite in order to make himself known to us then he is no longer infinite; at least in terms that we can understand.

Does this not therefore only show man's ignorance, or arrogance, in claiming to "know God?"

The proponents of Yahweh/Jesus, Allah, and Gaia, to use only the monotheist names I can think of offhand, all claim to have the one and only gateway to the afterlife. I have problems with the "only" part. The "one" part doesn't make much sense, either, come to think of it.

Personally, and to answer the OP, I cannot limit my concept of the infinite. An infinite God must therefore encompass everything I can perceive, and more. Conversely, everything must be God.

So, to keep my smart-aleck certification up to date, whenever anyone starts talking about God, my response is "You rang?"

Does this not therefore only show man's ignorance, or arrogance, in claiming to "know God?"

The proponents of Yahweh/Jesus, Allah, and Gaia, to use only the monotheist names I can think of offhand, all claim to have the one and only gateway to the afterlife. I have problems with the "only" part. The "one" part doesn't make much sense, either, come to think of it.

Personally, and to answer the OP, I cannot limit my concept of the infinite. An infinite God must therefore encompass everything I can perceive, and more. Conversely, everything must be God.

So, to keep my smart-aleck certification up to date, whenever anyone starts talking about God, my response is "You rang?"

Hi again Cats,

I guess this is the problem that non-Christian religions have with Christianity. Basically they cannot accept that the infinite can become the finite. In saying this non-Christian religions might feel that they have an indubitable truth and therefore not subject to any debate. One could interpret this as being the," one and only gate to the afterlife"

In regards to limiting or not limiting the concept of infinity. Most people accept that time and space are things that exists,'out there'. In other words, something independent of us. This makes it possible to argue that infinity makes sense. At the very least we can experience small pieces of infinity at a time.

An alternative view was put forward by Kant. He argued that time and space don't exist 'out there' but are part of our psychological make up. In other words, time and space are a form of intuition.

Rather than being a good thing in terms of understanding, this actually limits what we can possibly know about God or anything at all. Kant would say that the world is neither finite or infinite.

Again, this is only Kant's theory of time and space. I should not say only because it was a significant theory in the history of philosophy. There are of course other non-Kantian theories.

Regards

Tut

In saying this non-Christian religions might feel that they have an indubitable truth and therefore not subject to any debate. One could interpret this as being the," one and only gate to the afterlife"


Are you sure you meant the other faiths? My experience has been that the Christian sects are some of the worst in claiming exclusivity. The Unitarians, the Deists, the Buddhists; even Wiccans seem more willing to debate the nature of the Divine.

Are you sure you meant the other faiths? My experience has been that the Christian sects are some of the worst in claiming exclusivity. The Unitarians, the Deists, the Buddhists; even Wiccans seem more willing to debate the nature of the Divine.

Wiccans, and pagans in general, have such diverse views on how to interpret and worship the divine within their own religion, that most are smart enough to realize that it makes no sense to denounce other religions. It just doesn't make sense to try to claim that your religion is the only true or right religion when so much varies from person to person. You have monotheists, polytheists, those who choose not to claim a god at all, those who worship the ancient gods of any given culture, those who worship incarnations of the divine that have sprouted up in the last one or two hundred years, and who knows how many other variations. Who are we to claim exclusivity when we encompass so many very different views?

Are you sure you meant the other faiths? My experience has been that the Christian sects are some of the worst in claiming exclusivity. The Unitarians, the Deists, the Buddhists; even Wiccans seem more willing to debate the nature of the Divine.

Hi Cats,

Yes, I can see your point. I will probably have to admit to some extent this is true.

I would argue the problem can be explained in terms of philosophical history. I am not offering history as an excuse here. Also, other people may have a different theory to the one I am going to put forward.

The idea of the infinite becoming finite goes back to the Ancient Greeks, notably Plato and Aristotle. There is not enough room to go into details about such things as Plato's theory of forms. Basically, the idea of a perfect and infinite entity becoming finite is not a strange idea in Western thinking. In order to explain how the infinite could become finite Plato put forward the idea of a mediating entity which acted as a type of interpreter between this world and the perfect world.

Early Christian philosophers borrowed these ideas from Plato and Aristotle. Therefore, we could argue that this type of thinking has a strong and unbroken philosophical tradition.

On this basis it would not be hard to claim some type of exclusivity. This is true from my point of view because I accept some of this philosophical tradition as true and I can see places in the bible which support these ideas.

However, I am very much aware of the problem of dogma. This type of thinking where you are unwilling to listen to any alternative ideas results in a degree of arrogance. From my experience at these religious sites we see people painting themselves into a corner because they are prepared to take their ideas to a logical conclusion.

Just my thoughts

Regards

Tut

You are a very angry person, aren't you?

Do you not realize that your postings push people further away from religion? You are an example of the very type of person I left behind when I stopped being a Christian. The "Do as I say or else, my way or the highway" group. No thank you.

What happened to kindness, acceptance, being a good Christian? If you truly believe in the Christian religion then it's time for you to re-read the bible because you aren't acting in a very Christian way. Just my opinion, but I think others will agree.

You cannot shove your beliefs down someone's throat and not expect them to fight you. Persuasion is better then force. Just fyi.

Hey, are you trying to sterotype me. I am acting in a very christian way, I am challenging religious theories that have no Scriptural basis. I don't happen to believe in any way to God, or any old belief will do. So I also don't care about religion, religion will kill you, I'm interested in relationship, the pure relationship which Jesus Christ makes available to us. Look, it is clear from Scripture that Jesus had no time for religious people, he told the truth and if you didn't like it, tough, you could go to the temple and work out your salvation under the Law and good luck with that. Also please understand, I have no interest in what people will agree with, they are entitled to be wrong too.

You do know that what you did is not the unforgivable sin, the Lord will forgive you if you want to be forgiven, and as the RCC isn't the only expression of Christianity, so you should come in from the cold

For one to be forgiven from a sin one truly must be sorry for the sin they committed. I am not sorry at all for what I did.

Nobody can define which path to follow is right to reach to god.

Human mind is very weak. So we need something to hold on to concentrate.

Which ever name you call, which ever form you worship him.
Its just one that great power which cannot be defined or restricted to any name. The Lord

A pdf file attached herewith . Hope sensibly it give some sense :)

To define and declare he is wrong or I am right etc. or criticise your are following the wrong path or I am following the right path...

Its all stupidity of humans who divide themselves..

Just matter of consideration like reaching to a destination through diff. ways.
By air, by sea, or by road you reach a destination. No way is wrong as all the way have its own important and its own benefits.

during one of my visit to southern part of India, I came across a yoga teacher and during the conversations he had given some few examples which we never thought about!
and he had highlighted, when we find difficult to imagine how this had been done by even people who lived in india 10 thousand years? We are lot yet to know about and lot yet to grow mentally to reach to a level where we can even define or imagine the power of allmighty.

just few points from the long list he had spoken to me to make me exclaim!! In wonder

before some brief update to understand the seriousness before I note the points. - The Hindu Vedas were written 10 thousand years back , when many of the civilisations in earth yet to start coming out from stone age.


1) In Vishnu puran - (veda) written 10 thousand years back Earth is called 'BHOOGOL' in sanskrit.
Bhoo = Soil, Gol = Round. 10 thousand years before the humans knew the earth is round!!

2) In Hindu Astrology - the planets and STars are identified separately
Planets which cannot be seen by human naked eyes! But it is defined properly as GRAH (planets) and Nakshtras (stars)

how they able to differentiate without use of telescope and satellites!

3) If imagination is the mother of Invention . And going by the epic written more than 8 thousand years. MAHA BhARATA
the first test tube babies were Kauravas . The 100 sons of King Dritarashtra and queen Gandhari.
as per the epic, the ovulution did not taken place properly and the Rishi(the yogic teacher) had taken it out and distributed it into 100 pots filled with medicines ( an Artificial Womb! ) and 100 children's were given birth.

adding onto that

Surya sidhanta - if you refer
the distance of sun and earth is given and the weight of moon is measured. (which found approx. right even in the recent NASA reports)

how they managed to do that?? Without the advanced Satellites and telscopic instruments!!


coming back to the topic,
when we can't imagine how even people 10 thousand years back able to define and identify things, how can we imagine or define the allmighty

hope you all got my point.