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gromitt82
Feb 23, 2010, 08:14 AM
Sometimes I wonder whether we are not spending useful time in debating concepts which are rather irrelevant, bearing in mind that we are supposedly all Christians. It is all very well for us to show off our knowledge of the Scriptures by quoting each other as many verses of the Bible as needed.

But I seldom see any references to really important subjects.

For instance, the other day I read an interview with Stefan Schmitt, director of the International Forensic Program.

See: International Forensic Program (http://physiciansforhumanrights.org/forensic/)

In this interview Mr. Schmitt was referring to the brutality and torture many Governments do not hesitate to “legally” practice when allegedly is needed for the so called “security or political reasons”.

In this respect he was pointing out to the well-known episode of the Afghanistan war when the “lord of the war” Abdul Rashid Dostum (former pro-Soviet during the soviet war and now fighting jointly with the US Special Forces) allegedly suffocated as many as 2,000 prisoners in container trucks, following the Taliban surrender of Kunduz, in an incident that has become known as the Dasht-i-Leili massacre.

Mr. Schmitt claims he denounced before the President Bush Administration and the Pentagon that the US forces were aware of this massacre and did nothing to stop it. But the Bush Administration paid no attention to his statement and denied him any further permission to proceed with the investigation until now, when it seems President Obama has asked him to continue and try to get to the bottom of the problem.

In this interview, Mr. Schmitt also claimed to be absolutely shocked at how the different European Governments (French, German, Spanish, English, etc.) were ignoring, and even denying, the massacres that were being carried out in the ex-Yugoslavia, during their conflicts between 1991 and 1995.

Not to speak of the Rwandan civil war between Hutu and Tutsis in 1994, where the death toll is estimated in well over one million people (20%) of the total population, while it faced a considerable amount of impassiveness on the side of the Western World.

Though it is true that there are a number of NGO (Red Cross, Amnesty International and many other Christian ones) that work in different areas of the world trying to alleviate and bring some help to all these suffering people, the true responsibility of what is going on, especially in black Africa and certain parts of Asia and Latin America, lies on the greed of Western Governments and multinational organizations which do not hesitate to set their economic interests before their collective consciences, in many cases, supposedly Christian.

Politics and economy unfortunately prevail over the basic principles set out in the UDHR, where the 3 first distinctly clear rights therein also appear in most Constitutions of our Western countries, i.e. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights; everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status; and everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

Actually, these principles are not that new for Jesus already pointed them out in His Gospels as a must for ALL of us to follow.

But, while most of us probably believe in good faith that we abide by them, we certainly do not, for we keep on looking with a fair amount of unresponsiveness and apathy to what is going on in this world of ours or, at the very best, we shrug our shoulders while claiming there is nothing we can do about it.

Americans are mostly concerned by what is going on in their country and how it will affect them. We, Europeans, are doing exactly the same or even worse, for we should at least truly yearn towards a United Europe but actually, starting with Great Britain and ending up with Greece, we all tend to follow the famous idiom “Every man for himself (and the devil take the hindmost)”.

Our way of living is very comfortable and we have all we need and we intend to keep it like that as long as possible.

Some could say we are being practical. Others might say we are extraordinary selfish and self-centered.

But we keep on forgetting that there will come the day when we shall all be also judged by what we have done for our neighbors…!

So, to sum it up, I would say that there are many more interesting and vital themes for us to debate than reciting by heart all the Books of the Holy Bible, from the Genesis to the Revelation.

I think we should better try to concentrate on the Gospels and remember them constantly to see what we can do to really follow what they recommend us to do…

Gromitt 82

Gromitt82

arcura
Feb 23, 2010, 02:54 PM
Gromitt82,
Yes you have made a good point now maybe we can get threads started that deal with the Christian aspects of what you pointed out.
For instance, "How can we help solve the world's hunger problems?"
Peace and kindness,
Fred

450donn
Feb 23, 2010, 03:40 PM
Fred, do you realize that the worlds water problem is much more important than food? Do you have a clue how little money it would take to actually supply clean water to the world? I do! Less than what we (the USA) spend on Christmas last year. How much did you give last year to help provide fresh water??

arcura
Feb 23, 2010, 04:41 PM
450donn,
None, for I did not know about that.
But I do give to others sources who deal with many different world problems.
How much did you give?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

450donn
Feb 23, 2010, 04:53 PM
Above and beyond tithes? Thousands, and I have been unemployed for over a year

Kitkat22
Feb 23, 2010, 06:45 PM
Please read this book.

LIVING WITH COFIDENCE IN A CHAOTIC WORLD.
WHAT ON EARTH SHOULD WE DO NOW... Dr. David Jeremiah

Fr_Chuck
Feb 23, 2010, 06:58 PM
Moved to discussion forum

monkeydamyo
Feb 23, 2010, 07:28 PM
I'm not done my education, and won't be for some time, but when I am, I am determined to become relatively wealthy through honest labouring of my learned professional skill, hopefully something involving medicine. Once I have the resources, I will find places that are desperately in need of aid and help people. I joined a group in high school called me to we and I found the website of the schools me to we organization-

Watch the video about the origins and one if the purposes of me to we, its quite inspiring (watch the whole video):

Me to We Organization (http://www.ainlaymetowe.com/metowemain.html)

(note that this was meant for students- the main me to we site if you wanted to check it out Me to We (http://www.metowe.com/)

arcura
Feb 23, 2010, 08:13 PM
450donn,
I have been retired for 12 years and I still give from what I have.
What organizations deal with the water shortage or bad water problems?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

450donn
Feb 23, 2010, 08:37 PM
Fred,
There are several organizations that I know about. One supplies a water purification plant to small villages that can take any sort of water and make it clean enough to safely drink. We have been involved with Advent Conspiracy. This is a Christian based organization that not only drills a well but also builds a school in each village in Africa that they go into. This group does not simply drill and leave this is a life long commitment to the village. In Muslim regions they are working within the system not so much convert but to teach the love of God. Look them up if you are interested.

arcura
Feb 23, 2010, 10:21 PM
450donn,
Will do.
Thanks for the information.
Fred

gromitt82
Feb 25, 2010, 10:23 AM
Gromitt82,
Yes you have made a good point now maybe we can get threads started that deal with the Christian aspects of what you pointed out.
For instance, "How can we help solve the world's hunger problems?"
Peace and kindness,
Fred


You and I can only help to solve the world’s hunger by means of our contributions to NGOs. But this is like a drop of water in the Ocean. I do not mean our eventual donations are pointless and irrelevant. If every one of the well over 500 million people of the EU, would pay to a special fund for world hunger 10$ per month, we could raise something like $60.000 million per year, which would be a reasonable amount.

But this is just wishful thinking!

Those who actually would have to solve these problems are the Western Governments and China which instead of financing corrupt African Governments to have access to their ore and raw materials should send over agronomist engineers and technicians to show them how to take advantage of their natural resources, and finance schools where assistance should be compulsory. And provide the local populations with the medical assistance, which right now is only being furnished by NGOs such as Doctors Without Borders...

But, this again, is wistful wishing.

Our Governments and multinationals take much more profit out of exploiting the diamond mines in Sierra Leone and Angola or the Congo Col-Tan ore or Nigerian Oil than they could get by building schools or showing them how to build irrigation systems that work.

If a project carried out and managed by a single man (+Vicente Ferrer, in Anantapur, Andhra Pradesh, in Southeast India), has turned out into such colossal and successful reality, that right now is taking care of the education, food and health of almost 200.000 children!! can you imagine what could be done if the Indian Government would really set out to imitate this venture?

In 1962, Indira Gandhi allowed VF to return to India but not to Bombay, so she authorized him to start his project in one of the most desolated districts of Southeast India, the region of Andra Pradesh. She was probably hoping he would give up or collapse before the terrible poverty and illiteracy of the local population. But as VF always kept on saying, with God’s help (he was a former Jesuit) there is nothing impossible.

I was there before I retired, in 1986, and it was already possible to see what he had achieved in just 24 years. Last year one of my sons went there with his family and they came back totally staggered. The most appalling view, however, was, according to what they said, the condition into which the other districts surrounding Anantapur are! Misery all over!

In Africa the problem goes back to the Western colonial time...

In the 60s, I used to do business with many of the big European Corporations dealing in black Africa, like the Unilever Group, CFAO or SCOA.

I had to travel quite often to countries like Gold Coast, Nigeria, Belgium Congo, Angola and even South Africa.
I could write for hours on the situation of the blacks and how they were treated by the “almighty” whites...

These whites, who punctually attended the dominical services at the local church with their families, the following Monday, would not hesitate to claim that blacks have no soul and could therefore be treated like animals...

I’m sure that many still believe it...

I remember that while in Johannesburg, way back in 63 or 64, I read in the newspapers that the milk farmers were having a great surplus of milk and in order to avoid its prices to fall they were throwing thousands of gallons into the Limpopo river rather than distributing it to the blacks who could not afford it at its current prices... And these farmers claimed to be good Christians...

Then in the 70, most of these countries achieved their independence, but the situation remained more or less the same. Now the big European and American corporations were dealing with the corrupt governments which suited them quite well for they could keep exploiting the African resources, as before. As for the Government with the money and bribes they are receiving from these corporations they open accounts in Switzerland (like Mobuto) or buy weapons in the black market. Incidentally, weapons manufactured by Europe or America.

So as you can see, the situation is rather complicated and in my opinion any changes should start in our own schooling, where we should teach our children what the world situation actually isand what they should do to correct it.

By instilling this knowledge from childhood we might little by little create a generation of men and women truly worried by the third world situation and these new people would demand from their governments a complete new approach to the problems of hunger, water supplying, health, etc.

There are many scholars that insist on the fact our planet could provide food without any problems for twice as much population as we now have. It all depends on how we can manage it...

Wistful thinking again? Who knows, but in the time it has taken me to write down these words (35 minutes), according to the UN, some 700.000 children have died of starvation (20.000 per minute).

Have no doubt Fred that we shall ALL have to account for this situation on Judgment Day!
Gromitt82

paraclete
Feb 25, 2010, 02:11 PM
Above and beyond tithes? Thousands, and I have been unemployed for over a year

Is this a testimony or a question?

inthebox
Feb 25, 2010, 03:14 PM
Gromitt

I thought salvation was based on Jesus Christ's work on the cross? Yes, faith produces fruit, but faith is individual isn't it? My deeds and fruit are not dependent upon what my government does. Does it matter to you that I'll contribute to the local food bank vs unicef, to church vs red cross?


G&P

arcura
Feb 25, 2010, 05:49 PM
gromitt82,
Thanks for the info.
I am donating now to funds that are supposed to be of help in areas such as this.
I am hoping to be able to check out where my money is really going.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

paraclete
Feb 26, 2010, 12:20 AM
gromitt82,
Thanks for the info.
I am donating now to funds that are supposed to be of help in areas such as this.
I am hoping to be able to check out where my money is really going.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred you are correct that salvation is based on what christ accomplished, however, our rewards, for want of a better term, are based on what we accomplish, so I expect there will be some sort of reward system, Scripture is fairly plain about this, different crowns, and perhaps the position of the mansion Jesus has prepared for us. Remember there is the outer darkness and that is in the context of heaven

arcura
Feb 26, 2010, 12:59 AM
paraclete ,
Thanks for that post.
It is a good reminder
Peace and kindness,
Fred

gromitt82
Mar 1, 2010, 11:25 AM
Gromitt

I thought salvation was based on Jesus Christ's work on the cross? Yes, faith produces fruit, but faith is individual isn't it? My deeds and fruit are not dependent upon what my government does. Does it matter to you that I'll contribute to the local food bank vs unicef, to church vs red cross?


G&P

Faith is individual indeed, but it is also collective when countries or their governments define themselves as Christian. Great Britain define itself as Anglican, the Queen being the Head of the Church. Italy, defines itself as Catholic even though its PM does not give a damnn about religion. The US, though, a lay state clsaims that most members of its Administration are Christian...
So we have the right to demand those who claim to be Christian behave as such in every respect.
As for your contributions it is absolutely up to you to ehom or where you give.
However, I'm very much against publicizing whom do I contribute to or how much. We should not forget that the ONE who should know what we are doing is fully aware of our charity as HE IS of everything else.

Matthew 6:3 says:

"But when you do alms, let not your left hand know what your right hand does."

arcura
Mar 1, 2010, 02:08 PM
gromitt82,
Good advice.
I know to who and what I give as does the Lord.
With the exception what I give to The Church and of the few on the finance committee in the Church ( and they are sworn to secrecy) no one else knows.
That's the way I like it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred