I just received a summons, (at 6:00 AM), stating that a credit card is seeking a judgement against me. The card was originally a Chase Manhattan Bank. However, the debt was sold to a debt-collection company - Mann-Bracken, LLC.

Originally, I heard these guys were bad news and I was advised, (perhaps wrongly), to avoid them. Well, I did for some time but I never sent any validation letter or anything like that. Now, I think it's coming back to bite me.

But I have an issue regarding this summons - the plaintiff is listed as "Chase Manhattan". I thought that the debt was legally transferred to Mann Bracken. My understanding, though crude, is that Chase took their hand out of these dealings when they sold the debt to a collection agency.

Is that right? If so, since I have 30 days to write the courts, should I state that Chase is an invalid Plaintiff? :confused:

Sorry if I left something out. I'm a bit overwhelmed with all this. The debt is about 3 years old or so and I have tried really, really hard since that time to start anew. I settled all of my debts but this one because it was sold to a 3rd party - or so I thought. :(

Thanks!

File your notice to defend, File motion for discovery, of the original contract, ask for copy of what they purchased the debt for showing the amount of it.

The original contract is very important, without the original contract there should be no case.

Just some suggestions to follow.

Hey Mr.Yet, thanks for the suggestions! :)

A couple of questions though:

1) When you say ask for the original contract, is that something I should include in the letter responding to the summons or is that something I should direct to the debtors?

2) If this is something I should direct to the debtors, do I write to Chase or Mann Bracken, LLC?

3) Lastly, what contract am I asking for - the original one between me and Chase or the one between Chase & Mann Bracken?

Thanks again for your help!

THis should be in your Motion for Discovery, since you have to go to court. Directed to whom has filed the suit.

Original contract you signed from the beginning, if they purchased the debt , they most likely don't have it.

Check on the rule of the court in your state. It should be online.

You are asking for the original contract that YOU signed agreeing to make payments on any purchases made with the card. You direct the request to the agency suing you.

Some other points. While I have also heard horror stories about Mann-Bracken, you were advised wrongly to ignore them. Apparently you did apply for and receive a Chase credit card which you used and defaulted on. It didn't matter whether the debt was transferred, sold or whatever. So you owe the money you defaulted on plus interest. Ignoring a creditor is probably the WORST thing you can do.

Now, how do you know that they purchased the debt? The may simply be acting as an authorized collection agent for Chase. They may be doing so on a percentage basis (they keep x% of what they recover). Which makes sense then that Chase is listed as the plaintiff.

The thing is, that often, these collectors are not provided with sufficient documentation. Therefore you want them to provide you with a copy of the original credit agreement (the contract), and a record of purchases and payments and interest accrued. If they can't prove the debt then you are off the hook. If they casn, then you need to work out a payment plan with them.

I think I'm following so far. But in regards to my Motion For Discovery, the document I received states the following:

You are hereby summon to file a written response by pleading or motion, within 30 days after service of this summons upon you, in this court, to the attached Complain filed by:
And then it goes on to give Chase's information/address. Also, further down the page, it says:

To the person summoned:
FAILURE TO FILE A RESPONSE WITH THE TIME ALLOTTED MAY RESULT IN A JUDGEMENT BY DEFAULT OR THE GRANTING OF THE RELIEF SOUGHT AGAINST YOU.

Personal attendance in court on the day named is NOT required.

Also, regarding this summons, the "Date Issued" is 10/19/06. 30 days has passed since the date issued. :eek:


Lastly, when I first received a correspondence from Mann Bracken, I called them and said that the debt was with Chase and they are simply a 3rd party. He said that I had to pay them and that "Chase will tell you the same thing."

From what I'm understanding, kind of based on what you have suggested and the summons, I need to file a written response motioning for the discovery of the original contract I signed from Chase. Then play the waiting game....

Does this sound correct? Again, thanks for all the help so far! :)

The Date issued is not the clock start, it's the date you were served. Contact the court or get a lawyer who can tell you exactly what you need to do to respond. But do not wait, act immediately.

What MB told you is like what I said, they are a 3rd party acting on behalf of Chase. And yes that's what you need to do now.

Hey All,

Thanks for the help so far! I really appreciate all this. I finally feel like I'm at least headed in the right direction! :)

Unfortunately, I do not have the money for a lawyer so I think I'll be contacting the court. As exactly what to do, I'm still a bit confused - sorry.

I think I am to:

Call the Court in Maryland, (my location), and tell them that I wish to file a written response to the summons. Specifically, I would like to respond by "Motioning for Discovery." But it's here where I get lost. Do I tell the court that I wish to obtain the original agreement between myself and the original creditor, (Chase)? Or, do I seperately tell Chase I want to obtain the original contract and, at the same time, respond to the court with my motioning for discovery and write in that I am contacting the Plaintiff?

I'm sorry if I'm coming off as naive. I have looked online and there are so many resources, but, I'm not accustomed to what I need, etc.

Thanks again Mr.Yet and ScottGem for all your insights!

Football guy, I am in Maryland, Cecil county, was the summons from district court of circuit court?

I will send you tonight the Maryland rules for procedure.

Hey Mr.Yet,

I'm in the city. If you could give me any leadway into the exact steps I need to take, I'd REALLY appreciate it! Of all things, I don't want to "lose" because I messed up the paperwork. :(

The summons was from the Circuit Court for Baltimore City.

Thanks!!!! :)

I'm not sure if the term Motion for Discovery is correct for this type of action. So basically you tell them, that you want to respond by requesting full documentation of the debt. This should include the original contract and a history of the account showing all charges and payments.

You do NOT contact the Plaintiff directly. Your dealings are either with the court or the entity that is bringing the action (the 3rd party).

IN MAryland court once the suit has been filed, one must file with the court Notice of intend to Defend, which is attached to the bottom of the page.Defendant can after that file for Interrogatories to the plaintiff for discovery, not with the court. They have 21 days to respond.

What is your court date?

You may have to file for a continance if time is insuffient.

Maryland court is all about procedure.

Here is the link to the MAryland Law Library:

http://www.lawlib.state.md.us/

Hey Mr.Yet,

I'm kind of getting lost. :confused:

You mentioned that I must first file with the Circuit Court an "Intent to Defend." Then, after that time, file "for Interrogatories to the plaintiff for discovery". But you said that would be filed with the Plaintiff. Does that mean it's not a legal document in the sense that it's not recognized by the court - or court official anyway?

As for the court date, I actually can't find one anywhere on the summons. It just states that I have 30 days to submit a written response. Does that sound fishy or is that normal?

Lastly, I went over the link you provided, (Thanks!), and I don't know which form to use. I believe it's the Circuit Court > Civil Non-Domestic one. But after looking it over, I'm not sure of that. :o

Also, ScottGem, if I'm understanding this correctly, both you and Mr.Yet or suggesting the same thing, right? I apologize if you have to talk down to me but I am basically inept in all this and have only google as a guide. ;)

Thanks again, guys!

Yes we are suggesting the same thing. My knowledge is more general in this area, Yet has some more specific knowledge. He said that the Notice of Intent to Defend should have been attached to the summons. If it wasn't, then you need to contact the court to get a copy or find it online.

Do not hesitate to call the court clerks and ask for help. Its Ok that no court date was specified. First they want to know whether you are going to defend against the action. Once they know that, they'll set a date. After you file the notice to defend, you then request full documentation of the debt from MB.

Cool! Now I'm following! :D

Regarding the summons, there was no Notice of Intent to Defend attached. As per your suggestions, I'm going to call the courts to find out where I may get that form.

Also, in reference to the Intent to Defend, once I file that, does that mean I have to go to court or would there just be a "Judgement" date - no pun intended?

Thanks again!

Once you file the answer with the court they should set a date for the hearing.

Use the link to the Maryland Law Library to find the rules, it is a searchable site by key words.

Cool! Now I'm following! :D

Also, in reference to the Intent to Defend, once I file that, does that mean I have to go to court or would there just be a "Judgement" date - no pun intended?

Thanks again!

Glad we are getting through ;)

One or more of several things might happen as a result of your filing the Intent to Defend.

1) The court will set a date at which both parties will need to appear
2) MB will drop the suit because they don't have the documentation or its too small an amount to bother fighting for
3) MB will contact you offering a settlement

If the third option happens, do not send any money until you have the settlement offer in writing.

Well, I went through the site, per your suggestion Mr.Yet, and this time, incorporating everything the both of you have been saying, am not as lost! :D

After reading over everything here (http://www.lawlib.state.md.us/courtinmaryland.htm#sued), specifically under the 1 C section, I went to Baltimore City's Circuit Court website. Among the resources listed there, I found this "Forms" section. But I still don't think it's exactly what I'm looking for.
http://www.baltocts.sailorsite.net/civil/forms.html


Aside from filing an "Answer" of a Notice of Intend to Defend, do I await the trial date prior to filing anything for the Discovery process?

Lastly, about the specific scenario. The amount in question is approximately $2,500. As for this case, MB got an arbitration award by the National Arbitration Forum. This trial is just officially substantiating the award - I think.

Given all these facts, would it be in my best interest to fight or try to settle? I realize that each person and each scenario are unique and there are probably other factors that are to be considered. Right now, for instance, I'm unemployed! :( Thus, I can't afford a lawyer. I am currently a "finalist" for a position I applied for a couple of weeks ago. But, if I get that job, I'll finally have some money. At the same time, because of what's happening at this place, I won't be able to take any time off of work - including the day after Christmas or the Friday before. :eek:

Sorry to post so much and, again, thanks a ton for being so patient with me! :D

Oh, and just to throw in, I have NO assets. For the first time ever, that might be a good thing, no?

We don't know all the facts yet. We won't until you have documentation of the amount of the debt. Until you see that, you do not make any offer to settle. If they can't document the debt you owe nothing.

Well, I went through the site, per your suggestion Mr.Yet, and this time, incorporating everything the both of you have been saying, am not as lost! :D

After reading over everything here (http://www.lawlib.state.md.us/courtinmaryland.htm#sued), specifically under the 1 C section, I went to Baltimore City's Circuit Court website. Among the resources listed there, I found this "Forms" section. But I still don't think it's exactly what I'm looking for.
http://www.baltocts.sailorsite.net/civil/forms.html


Aside from filing an "Answer" of a Notice of Intend to Defend, do I await the trial date prior to filing anything for the Discovery process?

Lastly, about the specific scenario. The amount in question is approximately $2,500. As for this case, MB got an arbitration award by the National Arbitration Forum. This trial is just officially substantiating the award - I think.

Given all these facts, would it be in my best interest to fight or try to settle? I realize that each person and each scenario are unique and there are probably other factors that are to be considered. Right now, for instance, I'm unemployed! :( Thus, I can't afford a lawyer. I am currently a "finalist" for a position I applied for a couple of weeks ago. But, if I get that job, I'll finally have some money. At the same time, because of what's happening at this place, I won't be able to take any time off of work - including the day after Christmas or the Friday before. :eek:

Sorry to post so much and, again, thanks a ton for being so patient with me! :D

Oh, and just to throw in, I have NO assets. For the first time ever, that might be a good thing, no?


Did you get notice of this:

"MB got an arbitration award by the National Arbitration Forum. "


If they have a arbitration award they must have send you a notice of the arbitration hearing??

Actually, yeah. That's when I called them the 2nd time.

When I originally received a correspondence from MB, I called and that's when the guy said I had to deal with them - not Chase. Figuring they were a 3rd party not legally entitled to the debt, I told them I want to receive correspondences from Chase since that's who I had a contract with.

Later, at some time, I received a letter about Arbitration. I think that's what you're referring to. When I received it, I called MB again. I refused to give them my social security number and was called "uncooperative." After all the stuff I read about Mann-Bracken, the last thing I wanted to do was give them my Social. :mad: Even when I said I had the file ID number, or whatever it might be called, the lady I talked to said I'm wasting her time because she wouldn't look for my records without my social. The odd thing is that the first time I called, all I had to do was verify my address. :confused:

After doing some research on Arbitration and Debt Collectors, I found that Arbitration, on its own, doesn't carry any legal weight. Once I found that out, I again refused to talk to them. I obviously couldn't call them and I was hung up on on repeated occasions. Well, actually only 2, but that's just rude! :mad:

I was looking over the summons again and the entire thing is a "Petition to Confirm an Arbitration Award." Is this looking like a bad sign? :( Or, do I still file to defend and then ask for the documentation as mentioned earlier?

It make your case harder, but do defend. Follow the advice given.

Okay, I'm back. I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving! :D

Regarding this situation, I called the Circuit Court of Baltimore City today. It was an autimated number. When I pressed "0" for the operator, it just kept ringing and then said "Operator is not available. Exiting the system."

I was calling to find out how exactly I file an Intent to Defend. :( Does this PDF document (http://www.courts.state.md.us/courtforms/ndcir03_f.pdf) appear to be what I want? I found this from the Baltimore City Circuit Court website that was linked to from the link Mr.Yet provided. But, right at the top under the directions, it says that this form it says
"This information report cannot be accepted as answer or response" - which, unfortunately, is what I was "summoned" to do. :confused:

At this point, I believe I'm just looking for an Intent to Defend. But, am I also looking for a Motion for Discovery at the moment? I'm kind of looking to avoid a physical trial - if possible.

Thanks!!

PLAINTIFF IN THE CIRCUIT COURT

FOR BALTIMORE CITY


V CASE #

DEFENDANT



NOTICE ON INTEND TO DEFEND

Introductory Certification

YOUR NAME HERE, the undersigned Affiant,

Hereinafter “affiant” does solemnly swear, declare, and state as follows:

1. Affiant's is competent to state matters set forth herewith, and of legal age.

2. Affiant's has personal knowledge of the facts stated herein.

3. All facts stated herein are true, correct, and complete in accordance with

Affiant's best firsthand knowledge and understanding, and if called upon to testify

As a witness, Affiant's shall so state.


STATEMENT OF PLAIN FACTS


State only the fact to the case,

Admit or deny only.

Awesome! Thanks Mr.Yet! A couple more questions though...sorry. :o

1. This is just something I can put on MS Word and fill out and return to the circuit court?

2. Under the title "Introductory Certification", do I put anything beyond my address/contract information?

3. If properly filled out, do I just send this in? No attachments or anything?

4. And lastly, under the "Statement of Plain Facts", is this were I basically defend myself - citing examples of my effort to contact MB?

Thanks for all your help! I do sincerely appreciate everything! And again, I apologize for being so "green" if you know what I mean. ;)

Oh, and just to add, I called the Circuit Court again but failed to reach even an operator. When I went to their website, it doesn't say their closed or anything. :confused:

2. Nothing else

3, no attachment, they come later at the hearing

4. state only what the facts are in this case.
Mostly read the paper work again, and either admit or deny their statements .

You must deny you owe the debt, or they will get summary judgment

Hello,

I just wanted to post an update about my situation. Per Mr. Yet's advice, I sent in exactly what he told me to both the plaintiff's attorney, (MB), and the court. As I receive some kind of correspondence from either of them, I'll post back.

Regardless of the outcome, I just wanted to say "Thanks" for all you guys' help! I went from feeling like I was in a whirlpool to at least being able to enjoy the upcoming holidays! :D

Again, thanks and I'll update as I receive more information!

Just updating ... with some bad news. :(

I got a letter from the city circuit court today saying that there was an award found in favor of the plaintiff and against me for the amount and court costs.

Any thoughts on the next step? I find it hard to believe that any credit card company/collector can get an award without ever having to present a contract. :confused:

EDIT:
Just thought of something. When I received the original summons from the court, it had the stuff from Mann-Bracken already attached. About a month or so later, I received something with those same letters/proof that was included with the original summons as "evidence." When I sent a letter back to the court, I never received anything back until now - this award. Does that make sense?

You got a letter? You mean the judge didn't offer a ruling at the hearing? Did he say he was taking the case under advisement? Generally, they don't send such things in a letter unless it's a default judgement. Such rulings should be delivered in person at the time of the hearing.

Are you sure you didn't miss a hearing?

File Moton to Vacate, lack of due process, Lack of personal jurisdiction, and subject matter jurisdiction.

You have the right to face your accusers, I that did not happen you were denied due process.

Add this statement to your Motion also

Defendant who is unschooled in the law

And ask that the court take Judicial Notice of the enunciation of principles as

Stated in “Haines v. Kerner, 404 U.S. 519,” wherein the court has directed that

Those who are unschooled in law making pleadings and/or complaints shall have

The court look to the substance of the pleadings rather than the form, and also

Hereby makes the attached memorandum, including the related documents

Attached herewith, in the above-referenced case. Furthermore, Defendant hereby

Requests the judge notify them of any sua sponte, rights or remedies they may

Overlook.

Furthermore, Defendant ask that the court take Judicial Notice that statements of

Counsel in Brief or in oral argument are not facts & before the court, only the

Parties statements made under oath, and the PARTIES pleadings, motions, etc

Carry any weight & counsel is not a & “Party to the suit.”

Mr Football Guy--- are you saying that you never took out a credit card and never defaulted on the payments? Or are you just going to court to try and get out of paying?

It seems that the Court will want you to either deny the debt or to say what the plans are for paying it.

Okay, so I finally found the last correspondence I received - this one from Mann-Bracken. It was a copy of what was sent to the courts. Specifically, it was a "Motion to Confirm Arbritration Award and Enter Summary Judgement Against The Defendant"

After that, I never received anything from the court until I just received the judgement. No trial date missed or anything like that.

As for the debt, I did deny the charges. More specifically, I sent this in:



NOTICE ON INTEND TO DEFEND

Introductory Certification

NAME, the undersigned Affiant, hereinafter “affiant” does solemnly swear, declare, and state as follows:

1. Affiant's is competent to state matters set forth herewith, and of legal age.

2. Affiant's has personal knowledge of the facts stated herein.

3. All facts stated herein are true, correct, and complete in accordance with Affiant's best firsthand knowledge and understanding, and if called upon to testify as a witness, Affiant's shall so state.


STATEMENT OF PLAIN FACTS

The defendant, despite numerous requests to the attorney representatives – Mann-Bracken, LLC - for the Plaintiff, have not received any copy of the Cardmembers Agreement, referenced in the filed Petition to Confirm Arbitration Award. Without this contract nor documented correspondences supporting alleged expenditures, the defendant has no knowledge of this alleged debt AND DENIES OWING THE ALLEGED DEBT.
Following the notice from Mann-Bracken, LLC regarding the Arbitration Award attempt and preceding the arbitration forum's findings, the defendant contacted the Plaintiff's attorneys again demanding the presentation of the Cardmembers Agreement and expenditures inclusive to the debt in question. Plaintiff's continued refusal to provide verification of the alleged debt speaks of fraud. Defendant hereby demands strict proof of the alleged debt.

Defendant hereby challenges the jurisdiction of this court to hear the alleged matter before it.
Whereas, defendant was never service any document for the plaintiff, defendant hereby request the court to dismiss for lack of jurisdiction and improper service.
I ask the court to take Judicial notice to the court of HAINES v. KERNER, ET AL. 404 U.S. 519, 92 S. Ct. 594, 30 L. Ed. 2d 652. Pro se , to hold to less stringent standards than formal pleadings drafted by lawyers, it appears "beyond doubt that the plaintiff can prove no set of facts in support of his claim which would entitle him to relief.


CONCLUSION
WHEREAS, PLAINTIFF'S FAILURE TO PROVIDE VERITFICATION OF THIS ALLEGED DEBT, FAIL TO PROPERLY SERVE THE ALLEGED Arbitration Award TO THE DEFENDANT. THE COURT LACKS SUBJECT MATTER JURISDICTION TO HEAR THE ABOVE TITLED ACTION BEFORE IT.
THEREFORE, the defendant requests that the court dismiss with prejudice the above title action, for want of jurisdiction and no proper service from the plaintiff. Defendant further request that the court grant judgment against the plaintiff for the defendants time and cost in this matter.



Regarding the next step, I just started a new job. While I really needed it, it might be disastrous if my wages are garnished. :eek: But, with this new job, I would rather not take any time off to try to slug this out. Then again, I shouldn't have to pay this!! All in all, if I send in a notice to vacate, what will happen next? Will I have to meet in person with these people? Should I hire a lawyer? The amount of the award is $2500. I'm not sure how much a lawyer or anything like that would cost and I have no clue what my odds for getting this off my back would even be if I pursued that option.

Also, there are no directions in the letter from the court. How long do I have to file a response? Can they start garnishing my paycheck next period?

Lastly, when I sent my response into the court, I thought I sent two copies with a SASE. The more I think about it, I may have only sent in one copy - but with a SASE. Should the court have copied and returned the aforementioned letter if I sent only one copy? Really, I getting paranoid that maybe they didn't get a copy...

Thanks for everyone's responses. I don't know what I'm doing and thinking about this literally makes me ill. :o

When you do finally go to court demand to see the original contract, they must have it, if no contract than no claim. Deny all until they produce the original to compare signatures. Remember due process must be afford to both parties. Make should that the plaintiff is there. No plaintiff, no jurisdiction. ALso attorney cannot testify for there client.

Okay, so if I got this right, you're saying to file a motion to vacate judgement. Then, assuming the court is okay with that, they'll set a trial date.

Is that correct?

Also, regarding the trial, would I need anything that says I want to see the original contract? And, lastly, regarding the motion to vacate judgement, do I just send something to the court - kind of like the original response: 1 copy to the attorneys, two to the courts and a SASE with the copy to the courts?

Sorry to be such a pest, but I was just curious if I should send the 3 copies of the Motion to Vacate Judgement in? (1 to plaintiff attorneys, 2 to the court).

Also, assuming I didn't send anything in, what is the next step? It just kind of seems like everything is very informal right now.

Yes file them asap with the court ,and mail copy to attorney for the plaintiff.

Last question regarding the current situation: Would it be advisable to just hire a lawyer? If so, I'd like to do it prior to sending in a notice to vacate judgement... I think. At the same time, I'm not sure how much a lawyer would cost, but I imagine it would be less than the $2500+ this debt is for. But looking at it financially assumes I'd win and only have to pay a lawyer.

Any suggestions, please? :confused:

More questions...

I think I'm set on sending the File Moton to Vacate. But I'm trying to get my mind wrapped around this - more for myself than anything. :confused:

Right now, is the only thing I want to do is send in the File Moton to Vacate? Then, if I'm correct, assuming I get a court date, I can then demand to see the contract, right? My confusion is regarding the whole "Motion of Discovery" thing. Is that something I need to file with the court in order to demand to see the contract or can I just demand to see the contract without filing anything formally?

And lastly, regarding the original contract, if that is something I need to file, should I send it in with the File Moton to Vacate or wait to see if I get a court date?

Again, I apologize for asking so many questions. I really feel like hiring a lawyer, but I have no idea how much that would be and most of them suggest I come in and consult. That's fine, but I really can't take time off a job I just started to chat about something that I feel I'm already being properly guided in.

Sorry for the rant there and I appreciate anything anyone can suggest regarding this matter. I'm really anxious to send out the File Moton to Vacate and hopefully stop any kind of bank account seizing or wage garnishment :eek: but need to make sure I'm doing this properly.

Sorry to kind of bump this thread, but I just did what I think is the final copy of the Notice to Vacate Judgement. If anyone could please just give it a look over and please let me know if there is anything I should change, I would REALLY appreciate it.

Obviously I left out personal information relating to this case.

And should I file anything else with this? That is, should I just send this in and wait for a response from the court/plaintiff attorneys or should I also write in a motion of dismissal or motion for discovery?

I'm really just trying to get a chronological outline of what I should be doing.



N THE SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF [STATE]
IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF [COUNTY]

[Plaintiff] Plaintiff,

vs.

[Name] ,
Defendant.

No. [COURT REFERENCE NUMBER]


MOTION AND DECLARATION TO VACATE JUDGMENT

NOW COMES the Plaintiff, Pro Se and prays this Honorable Court to Deny the Defendant's Motion to Dismiss and Motion for Sanction for the following reasons:
1. Relief requested. The defendant moves the court for an order vacating the judgment entered in this action and staying enforcement of the writ of restitution until the motion can be heard.
2. Statement of facts and issues. This motion is based on the following grounds: Lack of due process, lack of personal jurisdiction, and subject matter jurisdiction. The defendant has the right to face his accusers.

Defendant who is unschooled in the law and ask that the court take Judicial Notice of the enunciation of principles as Stated in “Haines v. Kerner, 404 U.S. 519,” wherein the court has directed that those who are unschooled in law making pleadings and/or complaints shall have the court look to the substance of the pleadings rather than the form, and also hereby makes the attached memorandum, including the related documents attached herewith, in the above-referenced case.

Furthermore, Defendant hereby requests the judge notify them of any sua sponte, rights or remedies they may overlook.

Furthermore, Defendant ask that the court take Judicial Notice that statements of counsel in Brief or in oral argument are not facts & before the court, only the parties statements made under oath, and the PARTIES pleadings, motions, etc.

Dated: [Month] xx, 2007
______________________________
Defendant

Name:
Address:
Telephone:

DECLARATION

I, [NAME], declare as follows:
1. I am the defendant in this unlawful detainer action.
2. I request that the judgment entered in this action be vacated for the following reasons:
The plaintiff and respective attorneys for the plaintiff never responded to my request for validation, therefore never giving any proof that the debt was mine under the FDCPA.

I certify under penalty of perjury under the laws of the state of [State] that the foregoing statement is true.

Signed in [City], [State] on [Month] xx, 2007.
__________________________________
[Name Printed]




Oh, and perhaps most importantly, do I have to "file" these papers at the courthouse or just send them in?


Thanks for all eveyrone's help so far! I truly can't convey that enough!! :)

ABOUT THE PREVIOUSLY POSTED LETTER

Regarding the letter posted above for a motion to Vacate Judgment, please be aware that the first line under the heading is incorrect! That's actually from the Plaintiff's perspective. More specifically, I'm referring to the part that reads:

NOW COMES the Plaintiff, Pro Se and prays this Honorable Court to Deny the Defendant's Motion to Dismiss and Motion for Sanction for the following reasons
I just wanted to update that information in case someone uses the letter.

Here's my story. I also defaulted on a credit card to Chase. I was in foreclosure and could not pay. They did the charge off and Mann-Bracken (hate them) sent it to arbitration. I did all the required paper work and the request of the original contract and they got it and sent me a giant package of all the copies. Then it went to arbitration and they were awarded an amount of $17,500. Original amt was 14,000. That was in Sept. of 2006. Two days ago I got a summons that I was being sued by a different law firm, Blatt, Hasenmiller, Leibsker & Moore. I don't know how they got involved in all this, but the copy of the arbitration award was stapled to it with Mann Bracken's name on it. I pretty much am done with this. I have an appointment to see a laywer about a bankruptcy on Tuesday. I live paycheck to paycheck now. I did not charge things with default in mind. Due to a job loss and a bad decision, I lost my house, my money and my credit rating. Nothing could make my FICO score worse I think, and I can't afford for these pirhannas to garnish my wages so they can make a lot of money for something they paid little for. The laws in this country are very much against the creditor. The arbitration forum is paid by the law firms they give these awards to. The companies who buy charged off credit need some parameters because they are very much allowed to do a lot, even with the fair credit reporting act. Also, your case can be dropped by one and picked up by another, and another, and another. So just because you may not have to pay this one, another law firm can and probably will buy it for a few bucks and hound you relentlessly. The only way to get out of a bad debt is to either pay it off or get it discharged in bankruptcy. Otherwise, it will haunt you for the rest of your life.

Part of what you say is true, but not all. There is a lot of protection for the debtor in the US. But remember, creditors are assuming a risk,they are entitiled to get their money back.

What bothers me is this second law firm. If you have a written agreement with someone on the disposition of a debt, then another creditor has to honor it, if they purchase that debt.

Aren't you the guy who just paid on a 10 year old credit card?

I was referring to protection from debt buyers by the way. They are not subject to very many laws. They constatly break the fair credit reporting act law because they know that not a lot of people know about it, or how to use it, I used to be one of them. It took MANY hours of surfing the net to get answers. And the bottom line is, they can and WILL hound you forever till you pay or file bankruptcy.

Aren't you the guy who just paid on a 10 year old credit card?

Who me? I've never defaulted on a debt in my life.

The best website that I have found for answers and form letters to send to creditors is Avoid bankruptcy eliminate credit card debt enjoy financial freedom and debt-free living (http://www.ihatedebt.com) > It has the best information and help.

That's not what I wrote

Ihatedebt.com is what I wrote

Sorry ScottGem. It wasn't you who had the debt, it was you who answered the letter of the person who had the debt. I just recognized your big diamond. My bad.

ihatedebt.com is what I wrote

The hyperlink engine here will sometimes pick up a site name from its metadata then the actual URL. The link will work the same.

There are many good resources for info on how to deal with debt and creditors, including this site.

What now!?

I filed a notice to vacate judgment. Almost immediately after I filed the notice, I received something in the mail from the plaintiff's attorneys for a settlement/installment plan. Actually, I think they crossed in the mail. A couple of days later, I then received my copy of the notice to vacate judgment from the court.

Then today...

I received a copy from the plaintiff's attorney's : "Opposition to Defendants Motion and Declaration to Vacate Judgment."

In the document(s), under the attorney's points, the 4th one said

That the defendant has filed a Motion asking to have the Judgment Vacated more than thirty (30) days after its entry. Said Motion alleges no basis for defense, no basis to vacate, modify or correct the arbitration award upon which this Judgment was entered and stats no basis for the Defendant's failure to plead.
5. That insofar as the Defendant's Motion was filed more than 30 days after the entry of Judgment, the Defendants must show not only that there was some irregularity but also that they have a meritorious defense and have acted with reasonable diligence in seeking to have the Judgment set aside. Here the Defendant has failed to show any of the above and his Motion should be denied

Also, under the heading "Point and Athorities", they sited some state rule as well as a case "Capobianco v Gordon, 19 Md App. 662(nothing that moving party has the burden of establishing fraud, mistake or irregularity, and that they have acted within ordinary diligence, in good faith, and have a meritorious defense.)

Any suggestions on what I should do next? :confused:

Also, just to add, on the Judgment that I received from the court, there was NOTHING about a response in 30 days. How was I supposed to know that?

Oh, and my Notice to Vacate Judgment and its contents are posted within earlier responses.

Thanks!

They will hound you forever. Just file bankruptcy. That's what I finally did. Either that or pay if you can. I don't have any assets or money, so my only choice was to get bankruptcy protection so they would not garnish the little wages that I make. My financial situation now is much different than when I acquired the debt. So if you think you can win this, think again. Bankruptcy is not he end of the world like everyone tells you. Your credit is messed up anyway I assume and the good thing is you can start over again. Just remember not to ever get any credit cards again. It's like dealing with the devil.

What you received was a response to your motion. Did you think they were just going to roll over and play dead because you were fighting them? Of course they are going to respond and they are going to try and intimidate you. This is, of course, why its better to have an attorney. An attorney can advise you on all the fine points and make sure you dot your Is and cross your Ts.

So now you know what arguments they have against your Motion to Vacate. Your next step is to prepare your answers to those arguments. Check the summons and make sure that no response time was given.

I'm curious if their motion mentioned anything about the verification. If it didn't, then it looks like they are trying to do an end run. Your answer to the last point about them acting in good faith is; "then why haven't they provided documentation of the debt as frequently requested"?

I don't think Bankruptcy is the route for me. While my credit history hasn't been good because of some things 3 years ago, I really have worked hard to rebuild it and make honest efforts getting things done. True, it would help out my situation with my student loans, I'm not ready to go that route. Besides, while this debt isn't cheap, it's only $2500+.

ScottGem, I was really thinking about an attorney. Unfortunately, I cannot find anyone in my area who specializes in credit stuff. I did go to MyFairDebt.com and look, but that person seems to have countless cases against collectors for FDCPA violations more than anything. Plus, they're not really close to me.

In regards to the letter, it's funny you said something about the verification. I was thinking the same thing and no, they never addressed it whatsoever.

Also, when you say check the summons, what are you referring to? The only thing that every had a timeline was the original summons for a response, (30 days). That I'm positive I sent in within the timeline. The Notice to Vacate Judgment was in response to the judgment that was signed on the 5th of January but didn't get to me for over a week from that date!! I realize the court might not send something out the same day, but that's a bit long.

Lastly, whatever I am to file next, what is it called?

Thanks again!

I don't think you have to file anything. What you recevied was a pre-trial motion. Now you should follow up with the court for a court date (if one isn't already scheduled. And then prepare for that.

No date. The only things I've ever received from the court was the original summons for a response and then the judgment.

I guess they simply sent this to try and convince the judge to not schedule a trial date. That's what it sounds like anyway.

ScottGem, I know you said I don't need to file something, but is there some sort of thing I should send in response to try and sway the court for a trial date? Like, something in defense of the original Notice to Vacate Judgment? I just have a sinking feeling that the court won't waste the time with a hearing and that I'll never get a say.

Also, worth mentioning, the attorneys sent an Order for the judge to sign denying the motion to vacate judgment.

I'm kind of thinking I should respond and basically say I have the right to face my accusers and that I am demanding a contract. I know I already said that, but I really don't have much faith in a system that wouldn't verify the debt in the first place with a contract or provide me with an opportunity to clear my name.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Yes you do need talk to the court and push for a trial.

I had the same thing from a credt card Providian from a collection agency. They even served me with papers to appear in court. The constable says, that they can not do nothing. I thought they would be like the IRS and seize and sell your stuff. Basically, if you do not appear in court then they could get a lien on anything you have. So if you are renting, and own a car and you are not going to pay them then I would not worry. I had to pay mine because I was getting a loan from the VA land board to buy some property and I just happen to have the money so my record would be debt free with them. Another credit card company has tried the usual legal threats but I do not pay attention to them and throw away the letters. I find that if you can not pay or have a lawyer then why do anything. You will still owe the debt. Do not stress yourself out, like I did. Now this long forgotten credit card, I just do not even think about it, but I just keep on trucking.

So if I want to push for a trial, (basically I just want to make them present me/the court with the original paperwork which they won't have), what should I do? I know that just sounded pretty dumb, but is there some official notice in support of the judgment vacation?

Also, should I just file a motion of discovery or is that way off base? :confused:

And lastly, they sent me a settlement offer/installment plan. How bad would it be to say to them that I'd consider accepting if they could provide me with the original contract? I'm just thinking that if they did provide me with something, at least I'd have an idea going into court - if I were to even get a date.

Thanks!

Oh, and barato56, my only reservation since I don't own a house is that they'd garnish my wages. That's my biggest fear... :(

If they win the judgement, they can garnish your wages. You need a laywer.

If they win the judgement, they can garnish your wages. You need a laywer.

Technically, they won the judgment and can start the garnishment process. I think it's expensive process so that's probably why they offered to settle.

I'm just curious how I can force a trial or if I can fight for the notice to vacate the judgment. :confused: As for a lawyer, I've been thinking that since after the first response. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find someone in my area that specializes in this. Most of the lawyers I've found are busy with class-action stuff and injury/malpractice cases.

I think for the time being, I'd really like to push to get a trial and hopefully vacate the judgment. If I could somehow get a trial, I honestly think I'd be fine. However, if the judges denies my motion to vacate judgment, then I think I'd need to either price a lawyer for some sort of appeal since these guys won't have any original contract work.

Thoughts on what I can do to try to get a trial in response to their latest intimidation letter?

Have you spoken to the court?

Have you spoken to the court?

That's what I'd like to do! Unfortunately, my work area isn't exactly private. Maybe if I could get away at lunch time, I could call.

I did try that option today at lunch but I was on hold forever. Probably no coincidence that I'd be on hold when they're more than likely at lunch as well... :(

Did Mann Bracken win an arbitration against you? My dealing with Chase/Mann-Bracken resulted in arbitration as this is what you sign when you get the card. I challenged the arbitration and they sent me a envelope of everything I had ever charged with that Chase card, so they did have it. I have a feeling they have yours too. They won the arbitration award and within 6 months, it was with a different law firm, but for the same arbitration award, (I think they just took over the suit as I had moved to another state). That's when I finally decided to file the bankruptcy as I can't pay it and don't want them to garnish the wages. You can go to court, but if you owe the debt, and they have the papers, you will pay not only the charges, but the laywers fees and the court costs. My advice is if you owe the debt, and you can pay, do so but try to get it reduced if you still can. This company is serious. They sue. They win.

Did Mann Bracken win an arbitration against you? My dealing with Chase/Mann-Bracken resulted in arbitration as this is what you sign when you get the card. I challenged the arbitration and they sent me a envelope of everything I had ever charged with that Chase card, so they did have it. I have a feeling they have yours too. They won the arbitration award and within 6 months, it was with a different law firm, but for the same arbitration award, (I think they just took over the suit as I had moved to another state). That's when I finally decided to file the bankruptcy as I can't pay it and don't want them to garnish the wages. You can go to court, but if you owe the debt, and they have the papers, you will pay not only the charges, but the laywers fees and the court costs. My advice is if you owe the debt, and you can pay, do so but try to get it reduced if you still can. This company is serious. They sue. They win.

I think you might be right bigcowboy1. :(

Let me ask this, if I were to talk settlement, what would be a good price? I think the award is approximately $2500.00. In all honesty, I really did have a Chase card with a balance of $600. I sincerely have no idea where all the rest came from as I stopped receiving paper statements, (automatically enrolled in e-statements). Then, I went from writing a check for a minimum payment, (not ideal I know), to receiving delinquincy letters.

I never did receive a breakdown and when I logged on, my session was "unavailable". I'm pretty sure that's because I owed them for 2 months past due.

Any ideas on an offer? They offered me approximately $1800 as a lump sum.

Just thinking more about this...

I still want to force MB to present an itemized breakdown as well as the original contract. I would like to get that first before I decide whether I'll go to court to fight. The burden of proof should still be on them.

As for your case bigcowboy, it might be different considering the amount involved. It's at least worth a shot.

Also, IF they could present all the information, should I go straight to Chase for a settlement? Perhaps they wouldn't be as prudent about the court costs. Besides, according to the court documents, MB are attorneys for the debt - they never bought it.

Thoughts?


Thanks!

Sorry to bump this, but since it's been just over a week since I received that rebuttal copy from MB, should I file a Motion of Discovery or something for the original contract or should I send something in to support my motion to vacate or should I just wait for the court to decide?

Thanks

Without seeing what the rebuttal said, we can't be sure. What you need to do is find out whether a hearing is being scheduled and what you need to do to get one scheduled.

Not good news.

I took off work today to try to handle this mess. However, Saturday I received a letter from the court DENYING the motion to vacate judgement.

At this point, would it be worth it to just go to Chase - not MB - and try to work a settlement?

I really, really don't want to give a penny to MB and since they didn't buy the debt I don't see a problem with this.

Does this sound like a good path? If not, I'd have to pay a lawyer to appeal this and then go through all that stuff. The way I'm looking at this - which might be wrong - I can pay to Chase what I'd probably pay in legal fees.

When MB originally wrote after they first won, they offered me a payment plan of $85 per month or a lump sum of approximately $1800. I wonder how much Chase would've received out of that lump sum... :confused:

What grounds did it give for denying your motion.

I doubt if Chase will negotiate with you since they probably sold the debt.

If no reason was given for the denial, just denied. File Motion for Specific Answer for Denial. They must use the rule of law for that denial. The judge must comply or he is denying you due process of the law. Maryland judge lately like to take short cuts. Demand an answer.

If no reason was given for the denial, just denied. File Motion for Specific Answer for Denial. They must use the rule of law for that denial. The judge must comply or he is denying you due process of the law. Maryland judge lately like to take short cuts. Demand an answer.

Hooray for Maryland!

Since the start it seems like they're very... um... just "not good." Realistically, I don't understand why they ever offered a judgment when there was no proof ever presented - even in those initial arbitration ruling in the NAF. But the motion for a specific reason sounds like a really good idea. Basically, I'm trying to get them to have to present the original contract and an itemized breakdown of everything before I talk to Chase or MB or whoever.

ScottGem, do you think Chase sold it? I was under the impression that MB are just the attorneys for Chase - not that they bought the debt. Otherwise, I honestly think they're being very misrepresentative about everything, i.e. "Attorneys for..". Plus, Chase is listed as the actual Plaintiff.

Also, when they sent something to offer a settlement, they specifically said something along the lines of "our client" will accept $1800.

Sound fishy or does it sound like a reason to contact Chase instead of MB - assuming the Judges here continue doing the same thing. :mad:

Me again. Sorry to bump this, but I've been "googling" Motion for Specific Answer for Denial and haven't come up with any guidelines with which to base my argument around.

Is there some sort of message I want to include in order to get an answer or maybe even a trial?

Here's the deal. In between being served and getting a judgement from the court, I did NOT get anything about what date to show up in court. So the judgement went against me. What I did do, was file the bankruptcy before they did that, and that stopped everything. It's really not so bad. No one came by to brand a big B on my chest. I think they put the fear of God in everyone about filing for bankruptcy because they don't want anyone doing it. Maybe if they played fair and let people have a fighting chance against these blood sucking debt buying turds it wouldn't have to come to that. Trust me, they will never let you go. They are sneaky, and they don't care if they get sued because they paid pennie for your debt, and anything above that to them is cake. Do yourself a favor, call the local bar association and ask for a pro bono laywer for free advice as there is so much red tape here, you will never do it by yourself. Let us know how this ends for you.

I think you said perfectly bigcowboy1: Debt Collectors = Turds ;)

I understand it could be a waste of taxpayer money, but given all the things you read about your tax money going to, you'd think "justice" would be given a priority. :confused:

I agree with what you're saying about bankruptcy being a taboo. But, given that I need to get a new car, (not right away), and that I'd like to start looking at houses, I can't really go that route. Besides, I don't mind paying my other bills like my student loans. I used the money and am cool with paying it off. I just don't like paying this off since I really can't seem to get any kind of itemization or explanation regarding it.

Would it be worth my time to just call up Chase and settle? If so, how much is a fair settlement? When MB contacted me, they said I could just do one lump-sum of approximately $1,800. If that's the ceiling, what's a good floor?

Also, if these guys purchased the debt, (as opposed to just being collectors for Chase), would they be misrepresenting themselves as attorneys as not the plaintiff?

Thanks!

If I file a motion for a specific reason for denial, should I make mention of anything from the following:

Debt Validation: The ultimate weapon against the collection agencies (http://www.creditinfocenter.com/rebuild/debt_validation.shtml)

I was thinking more specifically that I should somehow state the following from that link:

The Right to Validate Your Debt

Under the FDCPA, you are allowed to validate this debt, and the creditor (in this case, the collection agency) must show you proof that you owe the debt to the collection agency (not to the original creditor.)

The specific section of the FDCPA:

FDCPA Section 809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]

(b) If the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period described in subsection (a) that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, or that the consumer requests the name and address of the original creditor, the debt collector shall cease collection of the debt, or any disputed portion thereof, until the debt collector obtains verification of the debt or any copy of a judgment, or the name and address of the original creditor, and a copy of such verification or judgment, or name and address of the original creditor, is mailed to the consumer by the debt collector.

I say get a lawyer and sue them.

I don't know what grounds I'd be able to sue them on.

First, I think I need to call the "Plaintiff" and see if they would even settle.

If MB offered a lump-sum settlement of $1,800ish, what would be a good settlement for the original plaintiff assuming they don't have to go through all the additional court costs? Plus, if it is "just business", the only people to get screwed over are MB since they probably wouldn't receive any of the settlement.

Thoughts on that approach?

By the time you figure out what you're doing, they will be garnishing your wages.

Hi all, I am in ATL and got served 2 days ago by MB... so football guy, how does your story end? I've got a lawyer but she advised to come up with a settlement amount already - before we even answered the summons!! :confused:

It's been a while. When I last posted, it was April. Now it's the end of Sept. By the way, I filed a Chapter 13 which I'm paying at 100% and therefore am paying back what I owe. However, very interesting note. Got the list of who is getting my money, and niether Chase NOR Mann Bracken is on it. It's Roundup something, they bought that one, the Miejer one and a JC Penny one that I actually got a 1099 form for and don't owe, so they had to remove that one. So that's what happened. The benefit of filing Ch 13 is that I owed a lot of money, and there will be no interest accruing. I can get a house loan after 12 months with the trustee's permission. So it was a good decision all in all. How did your's turn out?

Cowboy, so you filed bankruptcy and you STILL have to pay? Who told you that you can get a loan after 12 months? Where's footbal anyway...

There's a difference between chapter 7 and chapter 13. In chapter 7, you get all your debts discharged. In chapter 13, you do a payback of either all or a percetage of your debts over 3-5 years. I'm doing the chapter 13 because I make too much money to do a chapter 7. There's a whole process to determine which one you qualify for. Since in a chapter 13 you are paying off debts, it's not frowned upon as much as a chapter 7 so there are lenders who will work with you. I think the court requires you to be in it at least a year to make sure that getting some more debt won't hurt your plan. If your mortgage would be similar to your rent, it should not be a problem. Also, if at any time during your Chapter 13 you either lose your job or income, you can convert it to a chapter 7. Chapter 13 is good for those who owe a lot of credit card debt because you can actually pay it off without all that interest accruing. I also have my car payment and my back taxes figured into it. After 5 years, I'll have no debt and no one can ever come after me for it.

I didn't know all that about bankruptcy. Thanks for the info cowboy, but doyou know anything about MB?

Why did you do a bankrupt? Make the jacka__ prove thsir case. It's very likely that have not proof and are just using the legal system to get what they want. Getting an attorney is worthless, they don't care about you. All they want is your money, just like the dame CAs. Fight for your right to due process. When the idiot judge, and there are a lot of them denys you of this, you can appeal and you WILL WIN. Due process is a right!! unfortunately only you care about it. Not the attoenies or judge whom sitts on a benching thinking he of she is god.